Reply to a Book, Reply · Part 15 – Part 16
The anſwer to the 15. Section examined, concerning their going to the Magiſtrate
THis Section is begun, and ended with miſreports, and filled up with cauſeles reproaches, in the intercurrent paſſages. For. 1. he ſayth, in the beginning, that, upon my conſent to the wrighting of the five miniſters, conſidered with the order above mentioned, it was thereupon reſolved &c. The untruth of this report is manifeſted to the Reader in the two former Sections, 2. In the concluſion of this Section, he chargeth me with reproaching him, when I ſayd in my wrighting, to prove that he did not deſire to have me with him, that the conditions, whereunto he held me, ſhewed it to be ſo, and added, upon which termes, he is content to have others, whom he hath no cauſe to deſire for Colleagues with him. This he ſayth, is a great untruth. But I know it to be true, and can demonſtrate it, if I would fall into his veine of diſparadging men in print, and diverſe of his Congregation will witnes it to be true. 3. For the intercurrent reproachfull paſſages, the Reader may noate more then a good many. But I let theſe things paſſe, & will relate the ſtory of this paſſage alſo, as it was. The Anſwerer (in all probability) by the helpe of this wrighting of the five Miniſter, thaught that he had me now faſt in his lurch, which way ſoever I reſolved upon. If I ſhould reſt in it; then the queſtiō was yeelded & I had bound my ſelfe to baptiſe promiſcuouſly all that ſhould be brought, according to their cuſtom: which I could not doe, without ſinne againſt my conſcience. If I ſhould refuſe to conforme thereunto; he had the five Miniſters now ingaged to aſſiſt him, both with the Magiſtrates, and with the Claſſis, to hinder my ſetling there. This ground-worke being thus layed, it was no hard matter to perſuade him to goe to either of them. Hereupon, at the intreaty of the Elders, he accompanyed them to the Burgomaſters, whom, when they made their addreſſe to them, they found praepoſſeſt with a falſe information, about the cauſe of my comming into thoſe countryes, concerning which they deſired to be ſatiſfyed. For they had bene told that it was not for matters Eccleſiaſticall, but for ſome offence againſt the civill Magiſtrate. which when I underſtood, I deſired the Elders, that they would not proſecute their requeſt any further, till this matter were cleared. And, upon enquiry, what had bene ſayd on both ſides, I found that the Anſwerer was so farr from doing me full right (in clearing my innocency, as he might have done, having underſtood the truth concerning the cauſe of my comming into theſe parts, by myne owne report to himſelfe, in private) that what he ſpake might ſeeme, rather to encreaſe, then remove the ſuſpicion.
The pretende cauſe of my trouble with the civill Magiſtrates in England (as it appeared) was a pious worke, wherein I (with others more worthy) was intruſted, to witt, the redeeming of impropriations, & reſtoring of the meanes to the right uſe, the maintenance of faythfull and painfull miniſters, in thoſe places, where was moſt need. Wherein three other miniſters (whereof two were Doctors of Divinity) and fowre Lawyers (of which one was the Kings Serjant at Law) and five Citizens (of whom one was Lord Major of London, when I came thence) were truſtees with me, by the intreaty and appoyntment of many, ſome whereof are at reſt, others are yet alive. The worke it ſelfe was applauded in that very order which was made in the Exchecquor againſt our proceeding in it: Our faithfullnes in diſcharging that truſt was teſtifyed by his Maties Atturney generall (who proſecuted the ſuite againſt us) upon his examination of our accounts, which we gave in, upon our oathes. I had no more cauſe to flye for feare of trouble about this, then the reſt, nor had they, or I any cauſe to withdraw our ſelves, at that time, when I came over. For the buiſenes was wholly ended before my departure. This objection being anſwered, and the informer himſelfe falling off from his report, the former motion, for their conſent to my calling to that miniſtry, was, without my knowledge, revived, by the Elders. Before the Burgomaſters had given their anſwer, they were informed by one or two of the Dutch miniſters, both concerning me, and concerning this difference: when the Elders againe wayted upon them for their anſwer, the Burgomaſters told them. 1. that they were ſatiſfyed about the former report. 2. That they had received a very good report from one or two of the Dutch miniſters, with whom they had ſpeech, concerning me. 3. That the ſayd miniſters had acquainted them with ſome difference, which had riſen about this cuſtom, and that J had now promiſed to joyne with the Claſſis, and to conforme to the orders, and cuſtoms of the Dutch Church, and, in particular, in this their manner of baptiſing all that are brought. And they concluded, in effect, in theſe words, we expect that he doe accordingly, and ſo you may proceed in your choyſe. By this the Reader may perceive that matters were now ſo farr from being accommodated, that they were ſet in a worſe ſtate, then before. For now, not only the five Miniſters, but the Magiſtrates alſo were ingaged ſo farr in this matter, that they gave but a conditionall aſſent unto my calling, and had, upon miſinformation, made my conformity to this unwarrantable cuſtom, the condition thereof. So that, how eaſily might he, who before abuſed the Magiſtrates with untrue reports about the cauſe of my coming over (to hinder my admittance) by a malicious (though true) complaint of my not obſerving that order, in ſome caſes, cauſe me to be ejected thence? Now a gapp was opened to every one, that hereafter ſhould ſeeke my hurt, to procure ſome ſuch children to be brought (of which ſort there can be no want, at any time, in ſuch a citty as Amſterdam) as they know I dare not baptiſe, that thereupon they might ground a complaint againſt me to the Magiſtrate. Nor could I, in ſuch a caſe, expect any helpe from the Anſwerer, whom I have found an hinderer of my accommodation hitherto, both in thoſe three wayes propounded by me, & in the order, which ſhould have bene made in the Conſiſtory, by the promiſe and endeavours of the Elders.
An examination of his anſvver to the 16. Section, concerning their going to the Claſsis to ſeeke their conſent.
THe truth of this paſſage I will breifely relate. After the Elders had received this anſwer from the Magiſtrate; out of their deſire to accompliſh the buiſenes (and not finding me at home when they came to ſpeake with me) they went, without my conſent, or knowledge, to one of the Dutch miniſters, whom they intreated to call an extraordinary Claſſis to meet on the munday following, fearing (as it ſeemeth) leaſt longer delayes might occaſion new troubles. The miniſter, having granted their requeſt, in their returne homewards from him, they told me what they had done, about the calling of a Claſſis, I, being yet ignorant of the iſſue of their treaty with the Magiſtrates, deſired to know what concluſion they had made, and the very words, wherein they had expreſſed their conſent, which when I underſtood, I told them that matters were now in a worſe ſtate then before: they alſo apprehended my reaſon. I wiſhed that the calling of a Claſſis had bene forborne, and prayed them to returne to the miniſter, from whom they came, and to wiſh him not to call an extraordinary Claſſis, for this matter, and to tell him that, upon ſome conſiderations, they are willing that matters reſt as they are, till the ordinary time ſhould come. They promiſed ſo to doe, and went from me with that reſolution, but another of the Elders, with whom they mett afterwards, altered their purpoſe, and therefore they went not. This change of their mind I knew not, till it was too late to helpe it. The day when the Claſſis mett, they were with me, in the morning, before they went to the meeting. I prayed them to deale plainly with the Claſſis, in telling them my judgment in this queſtion, and told them the danger of neglecting ſo to doe. They promiſed me, and purpoſed to doe ſo, but perceiving that the Miniſters of the Claſſis gave conſent to my call, without interpoſing any queſtion about my conformity to this cuſtom, they did not performe their promiſe, ſtill hoping and purpoſing to ſecure and ſatiſfye me by an effectuall order that ſhould be made for that end, in the Conſiſtory. Whereas the Anſwerer ſayth, that the Miniſters, at that time, underſtood from them, that I had declared my conſent with them, I am informed by the Elders, that, not one word was ſpoken, to them, at that time, thereabout. whereas he ſayth, Had I knowne that he was unreſolved to accord with us, and to goe on in the ſame practiſe with us, I would never have made ſuch a propoſition for his admiſſion, as I did, in the Claſſis. J anſwer.
1. Had he ſaid ſo to me, at firſt, much trouble might have bene prevented, but he held me in expectation of a better end, by telling me that he would ſee what he could doe with the Claſſis, and that he would not anſwer me alone. &c.
2. What propoſition he made I know not, but what oppoſition he made, both concerning the tendring of a call to me in wrighting, and concerning the manner of expreſſing my call, both he knoweth, and others can teſtifye that were there preſent.