A Treatise of the Church, Book 2 · Chapter 2 (3 of 3)
Finally as the Apoſtles whiles they were limited and confined to the nation and people of the Iewee were ſent by Ieſus to Preach to the loſt ſheepe of the houſe of Iſrael, that is, the elect Iſraelits:Matth. 10.6. ſo vndoubtedly when the Apo: cōmiſſion was enlarged, & they to Preach to all nations, & ſome of them to write, they were of Ieſus ſent and inſpired to Preach and write to the loſt ſheepe, that is, the elect of the Iewes and Gentiles. And as the loſt ſheepe of the houſe of Iſrael, were they whom Chriſt in his firſt ſending and preaching of his Apoſt…es reſpect…d, and of whom he had care and pittie, and not generally the Iſraelites, or viſible Church conſiſting of them: ſo the l ſt ſheepe of the Iewes and Gentiles are they whom Chriſt in his ſecond ſending of h…s Ap…ſtles, and in their pr…aching and writing reſpected, and of whom he had care and pittie, and not the viſible Church or Churches among them. And this is further confir…ed, yea cleared (as I thinke) by that ſpeech of Paul in his Se…mon to them of Antiochia in Piſidia: Actes 13.26:Yee men and brethren, children of the generation of Abraham, and whoſoeuer among you feare God, to you is the word of this ſaluation ſent. All they to whom Paul ſpake this, profeſſ… the feare of God: and therefore by them that are heere ſaide to feare God, wee cannot vnderſtand ſuch: ſeeing hee pu…s a difference betwixt thoſe in the Congregation that feared God▪ and the reſt. It is one thing to feare God in deede, and another thing to profeſſe the feare of God. This profeſſion all in the Church doe make, and ſo many of them as hauehave an externall righteouſneſſe, wee are to iudge thus of them, that they feare God: yet onelyonly they who be of the Church d…e indeede and trueth feare God: the reſt making a ſhewe of that they doe or hauehave not. For the feare of God is a grace or gi…t of Gods ſancti…ying Spirit, which God of his grace giueth to all, and onelyonly to them that are ſanctified in Chriſt Ieſus It is proper to Gods Elect, and them who be of the inuiſible Church, and to bee found in none other. And this the Scr…pture teacheth where it ſ ith. The feare of the Lord is the beginning of wiſ…dome. Prou. 9.10. And againe, Bleſſed is them an that feareth the Lord. Pſal. 112.1. Now to theſe who hauehave this feare, the word of ſaluation is ſent, and therefore the Apoſtolicall Epiſtles: whereupon i… followeth neceſſarily that the Epiſtles were not ſent to the viſible Churches. If i… be ſo that the Apoſtles write their Epiſtles to the Elect members of the inuiſible Church: then, that they in their Epiſtles do ca l them to whom they write Saints, I adde, ſanctifi…d …n Chriſt Ieſus, fa thfull, a choſen Generation, a royall Pri…ſt o d, an holy Nation, …iuely ſtones, a ſpiritual houſe, the Temple o… God, the hab…tation of God by the Spirit, the Body of C…riſt, &c. maketh nothing at all to prooue this, That a true viſible church is a company of Saints, ſanctified in Chriſt Ieſus, faithfull, the Body of Chriſt, &c. Neither doe theſe titles, nor any othes of this kinde, ſcattered eueryevery where throughout the Epiſtles, which be attributed to them of the inviſible Church, hinder this. That a viſible Church is a company of holy and vnholy, faithfull and vnfaithfull: and ſo your obiection is friuolous, making nothing againſt vsus.
But graunt wee that the holy Apoſtle meant and writ his epiſtles to the viſible churches at Rome, Corinthus, &c. Nei…her will that helpe you, though you imagine it doeth greatly. And then I anſwere: that Paul calleth the members of a viſible Church Saints, not becauſe they were all holy and righteous men, either in deede or outward appearance, and caryage of themſelues towards God and man, as theſe men fondly imagine, and very confidently affirme, expounding thus this word Saints, but in one or moe of theſe ſences following.
In the 5. of Leuit: thoſe are called holy things that were conſecrated vntounto the Lord:Verſ. 15. Verſ. 9.10.21. and in the 27. of the ſame booke the field wh…ch was dedicated vntounto the Lord, is ſaid to be an holy field: and the beaſts that were offered in ſacrifice are called holy. Euen ſo all of the viſible Church are or may be called holy ones, or Saints, becauſe in baptiſme they be all dedicated vntounto the Lord, and giuen or reſigned vp into his ſeruice.
Secondly, Paul calleth or might call all of the viſ. Church Saints or holy ons becauſe they aboue all people that are vpō the earth are of God called or commanded to be holy. Heb. 12.14. 2. Theſſ. 4.7.God ſaith the Apoſtle hath not called vsus vntounto vncleaneneſſe, but vntounto holineſſe. Hereunto belongeth that ſpeech ſo oft repeated in the Law, and after by Peter: Leu…t. 11.44. & 19.2. 1. Pet. 1.16.Be ye holy, for I am holy. And that Exod. 22.31. Ye ſhall be an holy people vntounto me. And againe Leuit. 11.45. I am the Lord that brought you out of the land of Egypt, to be your God, 1. Cor. 1.2.and that you ſhould he holy, for I am holy. For confirmation of th s expoſition ſerueth, that Paul terming them Saints; addeth by calling Paul vntounto the Church of God which is at Corinthus▪ Saints by calling: Rom. 2.7. Pſal. 79.2. Deu…. 7.6. & 14.2.21.and in his Ep: to the Romans, To all you that be at Rome beloued of God, called Saints. And in this ſence the Nation or people of the Iewes are called Saints, and ſaid to be an holy people: becauſe the Lord hath choſen them to be ſuch.
Thirdly all of the viſible Church were or might bee called Saints, becauſe of their holy profeſsion, or holy religion, which they profeſſed. Whatſoeuer they vvere their religion was holy, and hee whom they (in the middeſt of heathens and infidels) confeſſed and profeſſed was holy, euen that holy One.Luke 1.35. In this reſpect becauſe they profeſſed holineſſe, and themſelues to be holy, all of the viſible Church may fitly bee called Saints, that is, holy ones. Euen as they are called faithfull, and that with the ſame breath, yea faithfull in Chriſt Ieſus. Paul an Apoſtle to the Saints which are at Ephſus, Epheſ. 1.1.and to the faithful in Chriſt Ieſus; not that they all had faith in Chriſt, which is true and iuſtifying faith, but becauſe they profeſſed faith in him: in vvhichwhich ſenſe we deſcribe the viſible Church, to bee a company of faithfull people. When therefore Paul ſaith, To the Saints which are at Epheſus, and to the Saints which are in Phillippi, it is all one as if he had ſaid, To the Chriſtians (or profeſſors of the Chriſtian religion) which are at Epheſus and Phillippi. And ſo in the inſcriptions of his Epiſtles to the Romans and Corinthians where he ſaith. To all you that be at Rome, call…d Saints: vntounto the Churcb of God at Corinthus, Saints by calling, it is as much as if he had ſaid called or by calling Chriſtians. And thus th…s word Saints is often taken in the Epiſtl…s, as elſe where in the New Teſtament, as Romans 16.14. Phil. 4.21. Acts 26.10. compared vvith Act. 9.1. & 22.4.
M. Bernard teaching that men are ca…led Saints, becauſe of the profeſsion of faith in Chriſt, who maketh all true beleeuers holy and Saints: M. Robinſon anſwereth thus.Iuſtif. 110. It is true you ſay that Chriſt makes all true beleeuers holy and Saints, but I deny that eueryevery profeſsion of faith in Chriſt argues a true beleeuer. A falſe diſſembler is he and no true beleeuer, that in word pretends faith in Chriſt, and in deede denies him.
This is y…ur full anſwere, and that a worthy one. Hereby you imp…y, That none are in Scripture called Saints, nor may lawfully be ſo called, who be not true beleeuers, holy & Saints indeede, their hearts being purified by faith. But all in the viſible Church be in holy Scripture called Saints, and may lawfully therefore be ſo called: Ergo, all in the viſible Church (by your wiſe anſwere) be true beleeuers. And conſequently they ſhall all be ſaued:Iohn 3.16. For whoſoeuer beleeueth, ſhal not pe…iſh, but hauehave euerlaſting life. If you deny that your words imply that I ſay, then to what purpoſe ſerue they? certainely they are then idle, and hauehave not ſo much as the ſhew of anſwere in them, which makes as little for your credit, or cauſe. But grant wee this, it mattereth not much, ſeeing but in the leaſe before in plaine words (you in effect) teach th… ſame.Iuſtif. 107. The ſcriptures (ſay you) doe call men Saints, becauſe they are Saints, and not for any other cauſe. Your reaſon followeth. For what is it to be a Saint, but to be holy? We may well therefore thinke, that you meant as much as I affirme. I deny (ſay y…u) that eueryevery profeſſion of faith in Chriſt argues a true beleeuer. So doe we A falſe diſſembler is he, (ſay you) and no true b…leeuer, that in word pretends faith in Chriſt, and in deede denies him. The ſame ſay wee. What of all this? what makes this for you, or againſt vsus? Nothing at all. But beſides the former implication it ſhewes, that your fing…rs itched to bee ſcribbling againſt the profeſsion of faith: wh ch for aſmuch as it may and doth often fall into diſſemblers, …iues you no content: and therefore in eueryevery one of th… viſible Church you will hauehave beſides this profeſsion, true faith in Chriſt, and all the members thereof true b…leeuers, and conſequently no diſſe…blers in the Church. Thus you ſhut out of the viſib…e Church all hyp…crites, and yet both a little before and after, confeſſe that there bee ſuch, yea many ſuch in the Church. Reconcile. But tell me M. Robinſon, why may not they that profeſſe faith in Chriſt, that holy one, be therefore called holy or Saints, notwi hſtanding they hauehave no part of Chriſt his holineſſe, nor his holy Spirit dwelling in them: as well as be cal ed Chriſt ans, of Chriſt though they partake not vvith him in that holy annointing? Againe, the profeſsion of Chriſt an Religion, or of faith in Chriſt, is an holy and glorious th ng: and therefore vvhatſo…uer the perſons be that thus profeſſe, be they holy or prophane, worthily and fitly an holy and glorious name, to wit, Saints, …ay be giuen to ſuch.
This (ſaith M. Robinſon) is all one as if you ſhould ſay, The Scriptures doe not call men Saints, becauſe they are Saints but for ſome other cauſes knowne to you. For what is it to be a Saint but to be holy? Iuſtif. 107.And what to be holy, but to be of a ſound iudgement, pure affections, and vnblameable conuerſation?
Reply. It is one thing to be called a Saint, and an other to be a Saint: one thing to be a Saint by nomination, an other to be ſuch in deede and veritie. All that bee Saints indeede, are Saints by nomination, ſo called, and to bee called and accounted: But all that be Saints by nomination, ſo called by the holy Ghoſt, are not Saints indeede, and ſo to bee reputed, as you will needs hauehave it. For then all in the Church of the Iewes were Saints or holy indeede, foraſmuch as they by the Holy Ghoſt are ſo called: and conſequently they were all ſaued, which I truſt you will not ſay. Deut. 7.6. & 14.2. this is rendred for a reaſon why the Iſraelites ſhould not conform themſ…lues to the Nations about them, neither in their religion or worſhip, nor yet in other things of leſſe moment, as in cutting themſelues, in making baldneſſe betweene their eyes for the dead: For thou art an holy people vntounto the Lord thy God. And Deut. 14.27. Ye ſhall eate of nothing that dieth alone, &c. For thou art an holy people vntounto the Lord thy God. Againe,Iam. 2.7. Doe not they (euen thoſe blaſphemers) ſaith Iames) blaſpheme the worthy name after which yee be named? Hereby it is plaine that we are ſometimes named or called, not according to that which we be, but in ſome other reſpect, or as you ſay, for ſome other cauſes: elſe all of vsus ſhould alwaies bee ſuch as our names pretend, then vvhichwhich nothing is more falſe. The blaſphemers here ſpoken of were named or called Chriſt…ans, yet ſure you will not ſay they were Chriſtians indeede. They who at this day are baptiſed into Chriſt Ieſus, and prof…ſſe faith in him, hauehave the worthy and glorious name of Chriſtians from Chriſt, after whom they be ſo called: yet all ſuch bee not true Chriſtians: euen ſo all of the viſible Church are called Saints, and ſuch by nomination, and yet be not all Saints indeede, not all of a ſound iudgement, pure affection, and vnblameable conuerſation, as you t…ll vsus.
Laſtly, the Apoſtle might well call all in the viſible Church Saints, hauing reſpect and relation to thoſe in it that vvere Sain…s indeede, ſanctified by the Spirit of God and faith in Chriſt Ieſus: the viſible Church hauing this denomination of the better part: by a Synecdoche all being called Saints, becauſe part of them are ſo indeede. With this expoſition maketh, that thoſe he nameth Saints are ſaid to be ſanctified in Chriſt Ieſus, Paul an Apoſtle to them that are ſanctified in Chriſt Ieſus, Saints by calling. And vvhy might not Paul in this titl… (Saints) reſpect only the true Saints & Elect of God, as well as in ſome other ſpeeches of his in his Epiſtles?1. Cor. 12.27. & 6.11.19.20. and namely in theſe: Ye are the body of Chriſt: your bodies are the members of Chriſt, your body is the Temple of the holy Ghoſt, which is in you. Ye are bought for a price: Rom. 8 15. Gal. 4.6.Ye are waſhed, ye are ſanctified, ye are iuſtified in the name of our Lord Ieſus, and by the ſpirit of our God. Ye hauehave receiued the Spirit of Adoption. Ye are the ſonnes of God, with infinite more ſuch like. Wee ſee a man is ſaid to be a reaſonable liuing creature of the better part, the ſoule, wherein alone is both the reaſon and life, the body (which is another par…) wanting both. Thus we vſe to ſay: Goe winnow the wheate in the barne: not naming the chaffe, though there bee more chaffe then wheate in the heape, and that the wheate cannot be well ſeene for the chaffe. Euen ſo the viſible Church may bee called Saints, in reſpect of the better part, though the leſſer and fewer in number be many: the ſcripture therein aſcribing to all, that which is due properly and belongeth onelyonly to ſome: vvhichwhich is vſuall in the holy ſcriptures as appeareth by the aforeſaid teſtimonies, and by 1. Cor. 3.1.2. 3. Mat. 18.17.18. and by comparing. 1. Cor. 6.11. with 2. Cor. 2.21. and with 1. Cor. 5.1. Often you tell vsus the Apoſtles ſpeech. 1. Pet. 2.9. But ye are a choſen generation, a royall Prieſthood, an holy Nation, &c. is to be vnderſtood of the viſible Church. Well, if this be ſo, I am ſure the viſ. Church …s cal…ed, a choſen generation, in reſpect of the better and more principa…l part thereof, thoſe vvhichwhich God hath choſen to euerlaſting life, oppoſed to the generation of Reprobates. verſe 8. Why then may not likewiſe in this reſpect viſible Churches be called the Churches of the Saints. Hereunto M. Robinſon anſwereth thus. The Scriptures neuer aſcribe holineſſe to a people for ſome fewes ſake, if the reſt be vnholy and prophane. This is ſoo…er ſaid, then proued. And vvhy I pray you may not the ſcriptures call thoſe of the viſible Church holy, for ſome fewes ſake in it which bee indeede holy, as well as giuegive this witneſſe of the twelue Spies which were ſent to ſearch out the land of Canaan, That they brought word againe, and ſaid it is a good land, Deut. 1.25.which the Lord our God doth giuegive vsus, where but a few of them, two of the twelue thus reported, the other ten ſaying,Num. 13.31.32 we be not able to goe vp againſt the people, for they are ſtronger then we, a land that eateth vp the inhabitants thereof. And ſo brought vp an euill report of the land which they had ſearched. But I will diſproue you by your owne words. Not three leaues after,Iuſtif. 115. you vvrite thus: Here (ſpeaking of the viſ. Church) is no ſuch mingle mangle as M. Barnard would make of good and bad, but all good and ſo auowes by the holy Ghoſt, though without doubt many of theſe were masked and hallow hearted hypocrites.
If all in the viſible church be good men & ſo auowed by the holy Ghoſt, though many Hypocrites bee in it, and conſequently many bad men, then all in the viſ. Church be Saints, and are or may be ſo auowed by the holy Ghoſt, though there be in it many vnholy and prophane.
But the firſt is true by your owne confeſsion:
Therefore the ſecond.
Notwithſtanding all this that hath beene ſaide, I doe not meane that notorious wicked men are to bee ſuffered in the church, and not to be caſt out, except they repent. God fordid; But this is it I ſay and meane, that albeit there be not (through the default of the church gouernours) a due execution of the church cenſures vponupon the openwicked, but that through their negligences or remiſſenes there remaine in the church many open wicked vncorrected, that this impunity maketh not a nullitie in a church, as they of the ſeperation doe teach. Secondly I doe meane, and out of the premiſes doe learne: That albeit the church of God is to labour to preſerue it ſelfe pure from theſe ſpots, yet it ſeldome or neuer attaineth to that beautie and perfection: but that ſome, more or leſſe, bee in the true viſible church, who ought rat…er to be ſpued out, then to hauehave any place there. Which commeth to paſſe either becauſe theſe wicked perſons cannot be conuicted by manifeſt euidence, or for want of that ſeueritie in diſcipline which ought to be in the Church.
Chriſt Ieſus knowing this, that through the corruption of man, and wickednes of this world, there will be in the church a mixture of good and bad, holy and prophane: he hath therevpon not onelyonly foretold this, and taught it, by compa…ing the viſible church to a field, wherein groweth wheat… …nd ta…es; and to a draw-net that gathereth things both good and b…d: but therewithall ſeemeth to comfort the faithfull agai…ſt this mix…ure and miſerable co…pou…d; aſſuring the e…ect that howſoeuer they ſhall be thus mingled with the wicked,Matth. 13.30. a…d enemies of God for a time, euen as the wheate and tares be that grow together, yet it ſhall not be alwai…s ſo with then: but that there will come a time of ſeparation, when that as the tares are gathered into ſhe…u…s, to be burned, and the wheate into the barne: ſo the wicked ſhall be caſt …nto a ſu…ace of fire, where ſhall be weeping and gnaſhing of teeth; and the iuſt ſhall ſhine as the Sunne in the kingdome of their Father.
Apology, 45. & 61.Hereby alſo another error of yours is conuinced: That all the Church is defiled by retaining open wicked in it. For if in the Church from time to ti…e, the e hauehave beene many open wicked, as hath beene plainely ſhewed: how can this poſition of yours poſſibly be true? But you will prooue it by Scripture, 1. Cor. 5.6. A little leauen leaueneth the whole lumpe. If a known wicked man in the Church, be to the whole Church, as a litle leauen in the dough is to the whole lumpe: how commeth it to paſſe that the Church of Corinth by the inceſtuous perſon was not vnſanctified, all that time tydings were carrying of that notorious ſinner, from Corinthus in Achata, to Paul at Philippi in Macedonia: and the Apoſtles Ep ſtle carrying backe from Philippi to Corinthus? But tha… notwithſtanding all this ſowring a…d defyling theſe men ſpeake of, the Apoſtle writeth to them thus, To the Church of God which is at Corinthus, to them that are ſanctified in Chriſt Ieſus, Saints by calling That the ſinne of the inceſtuous p rſon was knowne to the Church, it is hereby manifeſt, in that the Apoſtle doeth ſo ſh rpely rebuke them, for that they had not excommunicated him, which otherwayes he could not iuſtly hauehave done. That all this time notwithſtanding his ſinne was knowne, the Saints at Corinth held communion with him, and he with them▪ and were all of the ſame body & ſocietie, it is likewiſe manifeſt by theſe words of the Apoſtle:1. Cor. 5.2.13. Put away therefore from among your ſelues that wicked man. Hore is an open wicked man in the church of Corinth, 1. Cor. 5.2.13.and not onelyonly he, but ſundry more, as appeareth by, 2. Cor. 12.20.21. and by diuers other places: and yet notwithſtanding a true church. Concerning this place of Scripture, A litle leauen leaueneth the whole lumpe, and ſome other Scriptures peruerted by you I forbeare to ſpeake here, becauſe I hauehave occaſion to ſay ſomething of them hereafter.
If … ſhall thinke that I neede not to hauehave ſpent ſo many words, to prooue the mixture of good and bad in the Church, and that in the ſame there hauehave beene and remained many open wicked: Albeit the Browniſts deny ſuch confuſion and mixture, yet thye make no great matter of it; neither doe they from thence conclude that our church is a falſe church, nor iuſtifie their ſeperation, ſetting downe this for a cauſe and reaſon thereof: If any (I ſay) thinke thus, they ſhall ſee by their owne words here following, as partly alſo we hauehave heard before, that they doe greatly miſtake the matter and them; and that beſides the conuincing of this their error, there was iuſt cauſe of the purſuing hereof, to the full according as I was able.Defence of the Churches and Miniſters of England, 7. Counterp. 3. Your people (ſaith M. Fr. Iohnſon) are not ſeperated from the world, but ſtand in confuſion with it; and therefore cannot bee deemed a true church of God, and the people of Chriſt: But leauing this man let vsus heare what M. Ainſworth ſaith thereunto in a booke lately publiſhed, called the Counterpoyſon.
We forſake (ſaith he) your church for this maine corruption, that all ſorts of prophane and wicked men hauehave ben and are, both they and their ſeede, receiued into and nouriſhed within the boſome of your church: contrary to the firſt couenant of our redemption, wherein God with his own mouth pro…laimed a perpetuall enmitie and warre againſt the ſerpent and his ſeede, which the woman and her ſeede ſhould wage, though with the bruyſing of the heele thereof. Gen. 3. Contrary alſo to the example of all Gods churches ſince the world began, who alwayes were ſeperated from the vngodly, as the Scriptures ſhewe. Now that this is a corruption among you your ſelues hauehave taught, ſaying and complayning that in the church are ſwarmes of Atheiſts, Idolaters, Papiſts, ſectaries, witches, charmers, ſorcerers, murtherers, theeu…s, adulterers, lyars, &c. This teſtimony being true, I hope your ſelues now will be aſhamed, to pleade that ſuch a people are Chriſtians, and to be communicated with, or deny that we may ſeperate from them in things concerning God. And a little after ſaying there are, 4. cauſes of their ſeperation, he telleth vsus that the firſt of them concerning the people, meaning becauſe of the mixture of bad with good which is among vsus.
Seeing the falſehood and vanit…e of theſe and the reſt of the lines here following doe manifeſtly appeare by the premiſes: I wil not bee ſo vnwiſe as at large conuince you the ſecond time: onelyonly, by the way as it were I will ſay a word or two, as I ſhall ſee cauſe. That wicked men, that is, open wicked men (for that is your meaning,) are not to be ſuffered to remaine in the church, we acknowledge; eſpecially if they be very vile and abhominable, dogges and ſwine: and that where ſuch a thing is endured, it is a corruption and the ſinne of that Church.
We likewiſe confeſſe, that in our church are many open wicked. So that in proouing that which we freely confeſſe to bee true, (where about M. Ainſworth hath ſpent a great part of his Counterpoyſon,) you deale very childiſhly But if paſſing by this you hereafter prooue that we deny, you ſhall quit your ſe…ues like men:Gen. 3.15. In the meane ſeaſon wee hauehave two proofes or arguments from you, ſuch as they are. It is (ſay you) contrary to the firſt couenant of our redemption, I will put enmitie betweene thee and the woman, and betweene thy ſeede, and her ſeede; hee ſhall breake thine head, and thou ſhalt bruiſe his heele. The next t…me you write conclude from this Scripture, that the being of open wicked in the Church, doeth nullifie a Church, and giuegive iuſt cauſe to the godly of ſeperation. If this you cannot, (wherof I am very ſure) you abuſe both this Scr…pture and the reader. You imply here and teach expreſſely elſe where, That the couenant of redemption and ſaluation God made with the viſible church: That this is falſe, I hauehave made plaine hereafter, and wil not therefore ſpeake of it heere.Note their peruerting of Scripture. Where learne you by the woman and her ſeede, to vnderſtand Chriſt and the viſible Church? you hauehave not beene taught this of God. Beſides you contradict your ſelfe. For in your confeſsion of Faith you vnderſtand this Scripture of the inuiſible Church.Art. 5. Where for proofe of this that the Elect all and onelyonly are redeemed, you alleadge, Gen. 3.15 I will put enmitie, &c. You intimate alſo that the perpetuall enmitie that is in the world for Religion, is betweene them onelyonly that are in the Church, and them that are without: and that there is no enmitie, but all amitie and friendſhip among thoſe that are in the viſible Church. They all beare vnfai…ed louelove one to another, as in your deſcription of the viſible Church you teach. You might be of the Fami…y of louelove; Familiſts, and not Browniſts, by this doctrine of yours. The holy Scriptures ſhew vsus the direct contrary. That euen in the Church and betweene the members thereof, there hath beene perpetuall enmitie and deadly hatred: whence it hath alwayes beene that that ſome of the Church hauehave ſlandered, raiſed vponupon, and ſaide all manner of euill againſt the godly, and often times ſpoyled them, not onelyonly in their good name, but alſo in their goods, baniſhed impriſoned, and put them to death. Caine belike had no enmitie to Habel, nor Eſau to Iacob nor Saul to Dauid nor the Scribes and Phariſees to the faithfull then liuing. Your ſ…cond reaſon is, That ſince the world beganne, there was neuer in the Churches of God, a mixture of wicked and prophane with the godly, but the godly were alwayes ſeperated from the vngod…y: And therefore ought to be ſo at this day. Prooue the Antecedent, and we will graunt you the concluſion: HaueHave I not ſhewed that this mixture was in the families of Abraham and Iſaack, wherin the Church was ſhut vp for a time? Alſo in the Church in Moſes time, in Dauids time, and the ages ſucceeding him; and laſtly in the dayes of Chriſt? Nay I hauehave made it plaine that in Dauid, Iſaiah, Ieremiah, Micah their times, there were not only wicked men, and open wicked, but ſo many wicked and vngodly in the Church, that there were ſcarce any godly to bee found:Pſal. 12.1. according to that complaint of Dauid vntounto God Helpe Lord, for there is not a godly man left. In like manner did the church ſwarme with wicked, yea open wicked whē our lord Ieſus was on earth, as hereafter ſhalbe made euident.Counterp. 23. How far are you then from the truth who teach, That there neuer hauehave beene prophane and wicked men in the Church, and that this is contrary to the example of all Gods Churches ſince the world began, Obſerue their abuſe of holy Scripture.who alwayes were ſeperated from the godly, as you ſay: and againe in theſe words: They cannot ſhewe any true church, ſince the beginning of the world, but was of a ſeperated people. Gen. 6.1.2. & 12. Leuit. 20.23.24. Ezr. 6.21. Act. 2.40.41. & 19.9. &c. If for confirmation of this groſſe and palpable error, you ſhould cote as many places of Scripture, as there be heares of your head, it would doe you no good: but onelyonly ſhewe that you feare not to peruert holy Scripture, & to take the name of God in vaine, no more then a fiſh to drinke water.
And here marke I beſeech thee, Chriſtian Reader, wherein we and theſe Seperatiſts differ as touching ſeperation. Wee acknowledge a ſeperation of the people of God and profeſſors of true religion, from all thoſe which make no ſuch profeſsion, & ſo are without the Church. Thus the Iewes vntil the death of Chriſt, were ſeperated from the Gentiles. Thus in the Apoſtles time, and after, the Saints (that is, the profeſſors of Chriſtian Religion) in Rome, Corinthus, Epheſus, Galatia, &c. were ſep…rated from their neighbours, being heathens and infidels. And thus are we ſeperated from all Pagans, Turkes, and Infidels. Of this ſeperation the Lord ſpeaketh Leu. 20. I am the Lord your God which hauehave ſeperated you from other people, Ver. 26.24.that ye ſhould be mine. This ſeperation agreeth with the Scriptures, and hath good warrant from the ſame: and thus farre you and we agree. But you reſt not here, but require beſides a ſeperaration in the Church, and among the aforeſaid profeſſors, vrging and enforcing this, that the godly in this ſocietie muſt ſeperate from the wicked, and hauehave no religious communion or fellowſhip with them.Epheſ. 5.11. 1. Cor. 5.9.1….11. Herein we differ. Yet wee confeſſe that the godly muſt be ſeperated from the euill manners, cuſtomes, and faſhions of the wicked; that they may not hauehave any fellowſhip with them in the vnfruitfu…l workes of darkneſſe, neither may th…y hauehave them to be their familiars: in theſe & ſuch like reſpects, the righteous muſt ſeperate from the wicked in the Church, and hauehave nothing to do with them. But that they may not communicate together in diuine worſhip, but muſt ſeperate in things concerning God, this ſeperation is manifeſtly repugnant to the Scriptures, as appeareth by the premiſes, and ſhall further appeare hereafter. In the meane ſeaſon this I affirme, that if this doctrine of yours were true, then for as much as in all ages there were aboundance of notorious wicked men in the Church of the Iewes: the Prophets, Chriſt, and his Apoſtles ſhould hauehave had no communion with them, at leaſt in their Synagogues: the contrarie wherevnto you both know and acknowledge. Then alſo there ought to hauehave been a ſeperation made at Corinthus, and in the Churches of Galatia, not only from the Infidels and groſſe Idolaters amongſt whom they liued, but alſo betwixt the Saints and profeſſors of Chriſtian Religion: ſeeing among them there were diuers knowne wicked men, as is in the next Chapter made manifeſt. But wee read of no ſuch ſeperation made or yet vrged by the Apoſtle, either among the Corinthians, or Galatians, or any other of the Churches to whom hee writ: Therefore there hath not been in former times, nor ought to be ſuch a ſeperation in the Church as you ſpeake of, to wit, betwixt the godly and the vngodly.
If any obiect here 2. Cor. 6.14. &c. I anſwere, that the Apoſtle perſwades the Chriſtians at Corinth to ſeperate from, and to hauehave no communion with the idolaters their neighbours in their falſe and idolatrous worſhip or idol feaſts, and not to a ſeperation among themſelues: The ſeperation preſſed by Paul-was betweene them in the Church, and thoſe which bee without, which we deny not: and not a ſeperation in the Church betwixt the godly and the wicked there, which is that you vrge, and we gaine ſay.
But I returne to M. Ainſworth. Counterp. 133.A third argument for confirmation of the point now in hand, hee hath in another place, which may fitly be inferred here. Seperation (ſaith he) from the vngodly vntounto this day is reſiſted, and pleaded againſt, and the holy ſcriptures vnſufferably abuſed to maintaine a confuſe mixed multitude, of all ſorts of people to be a true Church. But Chriſt is no Mediator for ſuch a mixture, as himſelfe ſaid to his Father: I pray not for the world, &c. Ioh. 17.16. Your reaſon is this. Chriſt is the Mediator of eueryevery true viſ. Church: But Chriſt is not the Mediator of any confuſed and mixt company, conſiſting of all ſorts of people: There…ore no confuſed and mixt company is a true viſible Church. Wee deny your Propoſition, and ſay, That Chriſt is the Mediator of the inuiſible, and not of the viſible Church: but in reſpect of them in it that are of the inuiſible. You tell vsus heere ſecretly, and after in expreſſe words, That Chriſt is the Mediator and Aduocate of the viſible Church, and for proofe thereof alledge Ioh. 17.9.16. and afterwards 1. Tim 2.…5.1. Ioh. 2.1. Act. 4.12.Counterp. 131. Note their peruerting of Scripture. If this Propoſition of yours be falſe, as in the laſt Chapter of this booke is made manifeſt, then are theſe Scriptures abuſed by you. The 9. and 16. verſes of the 17. of Iohn are ſpoken and meant of the eleuen Apoſtles. The ſame you apply to the viſ. Church: herein you abuſe the Scripture, though alwaies I confeſſe this holdeth not. In the former of theſe verſes of the eleuen Diſciples. Ieſus ſaith thus: I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou haſt giuen mee: for they are thine. Behold your proofe, and how you doe vſe the Scripture, who tell vsus ſo often of our abuſe thereof. Chriſt prayeth for, or is the Mediator and aduocate of the Apoſtles Ergo, he prayeth for, and is the Mediator and Aduocate of the viſ. Church. By (world) here all men of iudgement vnderſtand the Reprobate, for thereby muſt needs be meant thoſe for whom Chriſt prayeth not, and ſuch are the reprobate generation: you ſay thereby is meant a confuſe mixed multitude, wherein your ſelues acknowledge be many of Gods choſen. I hope this alſo is an abuſe of holy Scripture. The words of the 16. ver. are: They are not of the world, as I am not of the world. Where our Sauiour affirmeth, that to bee in part true of his Diſciples, vvhichwhich vvas wholly, and altogether, and perfectly true of himſelfe: that though they were in the world, yet they were not of it, that is, worldly minded, affecting and chiefely deſiring and ſeeking after the things of this world. This teſtimonie of Ieſus you produce to proue, That a true viſible Church is not a mixt company conſiſting of all ſorts of people good and bad: or, That Chriſt is no Mediator for ſuch a mixture. For proofe of whether ſo euer of theſe you meane it, who ſeeth not, that this Scripture is likewiſe abuſed by you. 1. Whether you or we then do vnſufferably abuſe the Scriptures, and namely touching the mixture of bad with good in the Church, let the godly Reader now he hath heard vsus iudge. Oftentimes you tell vsus of this abuſe. The word, ſay you,Counterp. 171. pag. 171. is vnſufferably abuſed to the maintenance of the confuſion that is among you. This doth as ill beſeeme you, as a common Strumpet to call an honeſt and ſober matron, Whore. But let vsus heare what M. Ainſworth ſaith further againſt this confuſion or commixture of all ſorts in the Church.
Your church (ſaith he) hath the eſſentiall note of a falſe church, Counterp. 14.namely a confuſe prophane worldly people. Thus can I proue that the Church in Dauids time, in Iſaiah his time, and other of the Prophets, and the Church of the Iewes in the dayes of Chriſt were falſe Churches: for they had this eſſentiall note of a falſe church.
The reformed Churches (ſay you) conſiſt of a ſeparated and voluntary people, whereas yours are confuſed and compelled. Counterp. 16.Fye M. Ainſworth. Are there no vvicked men in the reformed Churches? Hee hath not reformed and taught his tongue to ſpeake the truth that will ſay ſo. The harmonie of Confeſsions,Harmonie 312. Beza in Mat. cap. 13. ver. 24. Amandus Pola. Partit. Theolog. 311. Piſc. in Mat. cap. 3. ver. 12. Beza, Polanus, Piſcator with other learned Writers of the ſaid Churches, in the theſi affirme the contrary, which ſufficiently diſproueth this. There was neueraI meane nationall churches. Church in the world ſo thoroughly purged and reformed as you ſpeake, nor ſhal be to the end of the world. It is no maruell then though the Church of England, be a confuſed people. Nay the truth is, It is not poſsible it ſhould be free from this confuſion: For the Scripture muſt be fulfilled: which for this cauſe compareth the viſible Church to a draw-net, and to a field, wherein bee mixed and grow together wheate and tares.
M. Craſhawe asking of the Browniſts, what fundamentall hereſie our doctrine doth maintaine. You anſwere thus:Counterp. 245 The vnlawfull commixture of the children of God, and children of the Diuell, in one Church and communion; is a fundamentall hereſie being ſtiffely maintained. All the Scriptures condemne it; all well reformed Churches auoid it; nature it ſelfe teacheth to abhor it: yet in ſuch profane communion your Church abideth; and you will not endure to heare of a ſeparation. To this effect alſo you ſpeak in another place; That this is a ſinfull commixture, Counterp. 123.and an high tranſgreſsion, and that it is the ouerthrow of the maine ground of the Goſpell; which euer ſince it began to be ſounded in the world, hath proclaimed a ſeparation of the children of God, from the children of Belial. What thunderbolts are theſe? Vnlawfull, ſinfull, an high tranſgreſsion, ouerthrowing the foundation of the Church, and Goſpell. If you had conſid…red that the greateſt part of the viſible Church are Reprobates, as Chriſt teacheth vsus in the Parable of the Sower; and of the King marrying his ſonne;Mat. 13.3. & 22.1.14. Communion of Saints 1.2. and in that ſhort ſpeech of his, Many are called but few choſen: and that all Reprobates are the Diuels children: you would neuer ſure neither here, nor elſe where hauehave taught, as in eff…ct you doe, That in the viſible Church there are no children of the Diuell, and that we may hauehave no communion with them, but muſt ſeparate from them. If there be not a mixture of the children of God, and the Diuels children in the viſible church, then the viſible Church is a company of Gods children onelyonly, hauing none of the children of Belial in it: Tell me then (I pray you) vvhoſe children Cain, Iſmael, Eſau, Saul, and Abſalom were: and generally the people that liued in Iſaiah his time,Iſaiah 1.10. to whom the Prophet ſpeaking, ſaith, O Princes of Sodome, O people of Gomorrah: and generally the Scribes and Phariſees that liued in the dayes of Chriſt. By your doctrine they were the children of God: For all of the viſible Church (ſay you) are Gods children; there is no mixture in this ſocietie of the Diuels children with Gods: But Cain, Iſmael, Eſau, Saul, and the reſt aboue mentioned vvere of the viſible Church: Therefore the children of God. What your euaſion will bee here, I declare hereafter, and ſhew that it vvill not helpe you. That we may hauehave religious communion vvith the children of the Diuell, is likewiſe there proued, and your obiections anſwered. In the meane ſeaſon I muſt tell you, That the open vvicked in our Church may be accounted, and in the iudgement of charitie deemed the children of God, as vvell as the aforeſaid members of the viſible Church. That there is a commixture of Gods and the Diuels children in the viſible Church wee doe ſtiffely maintaine. This (ſay you) is a fundamentall hereſie. If there be no other and worſe fundamentall hereſie maintained in our Church then this, as it ſhould ſeeme (to your knowledge) there is not: then aſſure your ſelues that the foundation of our Church ſtandeth ſtedfaſt and vnmoueable, not onelyonly againſt you, vvho are but fleſh and bloud, but euen the D…uell himſelfe. The commixture of the children of God and Belial in the Church, and Church aſſemblies, neither euer was, nor can poſsibly be auoided: and therfore you tell vsus that which is vnpoſsible to be true, that all well reformed Churches auoid it. If the mixture of Gods children and the Diuels in the ſame Church aſſembly bee a prophane communion: I feare there was neuer ye… holy communion in the world.Counterp. 223.
Theſe Miniſters (ſay you) hauing miſſed at firſt of the queſtion; the further now they goe, the further they ſtray; and run themſelues out of breath in vain. For neither the examples of Melchiſedec, Iob, Cornelius, &c. nor their reaſons following, of two other meanes of gathering the church thē by the preaching of the Goſpel: Thirdly of the preaching of M. Wickliff &c. 4. & 5. of courſe that Q. Elizabeth tooke for bringing the Goſpel in againe, &c. none of theſe (you ſay) will proue, either that open prophane wicked perſons, may be receiued and kept in the boſome of the Church; or that there be not multitudes of open prophane and wicked, members of the Church of England. There preſent lamentable eſtate proclaimeth this latter to all men that hauehave conſcience; their own writings alſo heretofore doe ſtrongly confirme it: and all the Scriptures cry out againſt the former; and teach a ſeperation; as before in this Treatiſe, & in ſundry other bookes is manifeſted. Thus theſe Miniſters hauehave paſſed by the maine controuerſie. Theſe are your owne vvords without adding or detracting from them.
Wee muſt vnderſtand certaine Miniſters among vsus hauing vvritten ſomething againſt them of the Separation, in the defence and maintenance of our Church, worſhip, and Miniſterie, for their owne priuate vſe, and benefit of ſome few others, that M. Bernard hath publiſhed part of that Treatiſe, (part only I ſay, as appeareth by the 164. pag. of his booke called The Separatiſts ſchiſme) and that therunto M. Ainſworth hath returned an anſwere. In this anſwere generally he tels vsus, They hauehave vnitie like a company of fooles, Counterp: 225 Pro. 2.6.9.applying to them that prouerbe of Salomon. A thorne gets vp in a drunkards hand, and a Parable in the mouth of fooles. And particularly hee confirmes it h…re. For they hauehave miſſed the queſtion, as he ſaith; and paſſed by the maine controuerſie. Now who knoweth not that there is great folly in this, and that wiſe men doe ſeldome or neuer ſo farre forget themſelues. That wee may the better iudge betweene theſe opponents; betwixt this wiſe man on the one ſide, and theſe fooles (as he pleaſeth to call them) on the other; and whether he or they miſtake the queſtion and point in controuerſie, wherein there is indeed great folly and want of vviſedome, let vsus heare vvhat it is which theſe Miniſters hauehave written, wherevpon this imputation is grounded.
The Separatiſts ſchiſme 181.182.183. &c.The firſt thing (ſay they) which they of the Separation obiect againſt the whole body of our Church, and of our pariſh aſſemblies is this: That it was not gathered by ſuch meanes as God in his word hath ordained and ſanctified for the gathering of his church. And that thus you obiect, they proue by two teſtimonies of your owne, and then immediately returne therevnto the ſeuerall anſweres here following. Firſt (ſay they) wee may eſteeme them a true Church, (and ſo our owne) of whoſe preſent profeſsion and faith we are well aſſured; though wee cannot ſee, by what meanes they were first gathered. Elſe may we ſtill doubt whether Melchiſedech, and the families of Iob and Cornelius were true Churches or members of the Church: becauſe wee cannot finde how they were firſt gathered and conuerted. Secondly, wee might be rightly gathered to the ſociety and fellowſhip of the viſ. Church, by other meanes then by the preaching of the Goſpell. Thirdly, our Church was gathered by the preaching of the Word, which is the meanes God hath appointed for the gathering of a Church, as your ſelues doe teach. And here they bring in the preaching of M. Wickl…ffe. Fourthly. This (ſay they) being proued, that there was a true Church in this land before her Maieſties raigne; the queſtion muſt not be whether the meanes ſhee vſed were the right meanes, for the firſt calling and conuerting of a people to the faith; but whether ſhee tooke not a lawfull courſe for the recalling and revniting of her ſubiects vntounto thoſe true profeſſors, whoſe fellowſhip they had forſaken. Fiftly, and laſtly, though the ſolemne couenant to renounce idolatrie, and to cleaue to the truth, be not abſolutely neceſſarie: yet was that alſo required and performed in the beginning of Queene Elizabeths Raigne. Tell mee now M. Ainſworth: doe you not hold and maintaine that our Church was not rightly gathered, to vvit, by the preaching of the vvord, and therevpon doe co…demne vsus for a falſ… Church? Yes hauehave not theſe Miniſters therevnto returned a moſt direct anſwere? The indifferent Reader cannot but by the aforeſaid heads and ſumme of their anſwere ſee and acknowledge it. With ſinne and ſhame inough then doe you affirme, That theſe Miniſters hauehave in their fiue ſeuerall anſweres (as your ſelfe points them out) miſſed the queſtion, and paſſed by the maine controuerſie. No leſſe vnconſcionably and vnhoneſtly deale you, in bearing your ſimple Reader in hand, that theſe ſaid Miniſters indeuour to proue by the examples of Melchiſedech, Iob &c. and the reſt ſummed vp before, both theſe points following, or at leaſt one of them: either that open prophane and wicked perſons may be receiued and kept in the boſome of the Church; or that there be not multitudes of open prophane and wicked, members of the Church of England: whereas they intend no ſuch thing, neither hauehave they a word tending this way: nay abhor with their brethren to affirme either. Y…u doe therefore ſlander vsus, when and as oft as you charge vsus to ſay, That the open prophane may lawfully be receiued and kept in the Church, and to deny that there be any ſuch in ours. And in diſprouing both theſe, the one by the t…ſtimonies of our owne men, the other by the ſacred Scriptures: what doe you elſe but pull down that building, which your ſelues with your own hands, not we, hauehave erected and built vp. Thus doing you hauehave beſtowed a great deale of labour to as ſmall purpoſe as he that caſteth ſtones into the ayre: purſuing your owne ſhadow, inſtead of our bodies. All that we maintaine here and by the grace of God will againſt men and Angels is: That the being of open wicked men in it doth not deſtroy a church, Againſt this you ſhould hauehave argued, or held your peace, but we heare not a word to any ſuch pu…p…ſ…. I…ſtead thereof you proue the aforeſaid poſitions which we in comm…n hold with you. Whether you now, or the Miniſters, hauehave miſſed the queſtion, and paſſed by the maine controuerſie, (as in other caſes, ſo here) a blinde man may ſee. It had be…n vvell you had fi…ſt plucked out the beame that is in your owne eye, then ſhould you hauehave ſeene more cleerely to pull out the mote out of your brothers eye, if any be there.
More againſt this commixture of good and bad in our Church, who liſt and hath the Counterpoyſon may reade pag. 9. and 27. 28. and 60. and 70. 76. 101. 212. 213. And here by way M. Ainſworth, I muſt needs tell you, this booke of yours is falſely called Counterpoyſon: for it is not a preſeruatiue againſt the poyſon of falſe doctrine, as the title pretendeth, but indeede full of ſuch poiſon: the receiuing and beleeuing vvhereof is as dāgerous to the ſoule of man, as poiſon receiued is to the body.
Now that wee hauehave heard M. Iohnſon, and M. Ainſworth, we will likewiſe heare what M. Robinſon ſaith, concerning this ſeparating from the world, and the cauſes of their ſeparation. Separation (quoth he) from the world, and ſo from the men of the world, Anſwere to a Cenſorious Epiſtle pag. 4.and ſo from the Prince of the world that raigneth in them, and ſo from whatſoeuer is contrary to God, is the firſt ſtep to our communion with God, and Angels, and goodmen, as the firſt ſtep to a ladder, is to leaue the earth.
Before we hauehave beene taught (if we be ſo fooliſh as to learne of them,) that a viſible Church is a company of people called and ſeperated from the world, this man now inſtructeth vsus in the meaning of this laſt clauſe: That by ſeperated from the world, they meane from the men of the world, that is, earthly minded men, whoſe hearts and affections are ſet of this world, and the things thereof. So that a true viſible church is not a mixt company, whereof ſome doeth chiefely deſire earth, and earthly things: others heauen; ſome this world, and others the world to come: but all of this ſocietie are rapt and rauiſhed with a deſire & longing after the world to come, and the ioyes there: deſpiſing this world, with the glory and pompe thereof: who though they be in this world, yet are not of it. Thus you ſhut out of the viſible Church all hypocrites and all wicked men as well thoſe which be ſeparately as openly wicked for as much as all hypocrites and men of this world: to whom you deny a being in the Church: becauſe a viſible Church is a company ſeperated from ſuch. And whereas in the viſible Church there be ſome children of the diuell, if not in appearance yet in deed and trueth, and are not all the children of God adopted in Ieſus Chriſt, you tell vsus that in the viſible Church there are none of the diuels children: for the diuell raigneth in all his children: But you ſay in the viſible Church there bee none in whom the Prince of this world the deuill raigneth, for it is a company ſeperated from all ſuch: Therefore in the viſible Church, there are no children of the diuel: and ſo by conſequent are all the children of God by faith in Ieſus Chriſt. But theſe things you knowe and acknowledge to be falſe: that therefore from whence they are inferred, which all of you ſtiffely hold and maintaine, to wit, that the viſible Church is a company of people ſeperated from the world, is likewiſe falſe.
This generaall doctrine of theirs, he thus applieth to vsus.Anſwere to a cenſorious Epiſtle. pag. 5. Which ſeperation the church of England neither hath made, nor doeth make, but ſtands actually one with all that part of the world within the kingdome, without ſeperation: for which cauſe amongſt others, we hauehave choſen by the grace of God, rather to ſeperate our ſelues to the Lord from it, then with it from him, in the viſible conſtitution of it.
Anſwere. It is true, we neither hauehave made nor goe about to make a ſeperation from the men of this world, and betwixt them whom Chriſt by his ſpirit ruleth, and them in whom the Prince of this world raigneth: This paſſeth our skill and power, and is ſuch as is vnpoſſible to be performed by vsus. Our Lord Ieſus onelyonly can and will doe this by the Angels in the day of his glorious comming to iudgement. And where you ſay, that wee ſtand actually one with all that part of the world within the kingdome, it is falſe and ſlanderous: For we onelyonly ſtand actually one with all thoſe in the kingdome that profeſſe the ſame religion with vsus: which the Pap: among vsus, (who be not a few) with whatſoeuer other hereticks, or ſchiſmatiks, do not, except it be in hypocriſie, which we cannot hinder, but muſt leane to God: & therfore I ſay we ſtand not actually one with all in the kingdome: except there be in our land no Papiſts, no Heretickes or Schiſmaticks. If you obiect heere our Church Papiſts, and ſay that we receiue Papiſts into our Church, and communion with vsus. It is anſwered already: and I adde, They profeſſe to be of the ſame Chriſtian Religion with vsus, and to forſake poperie, in comming to our publike aſſembles, and pertaking with vsus there in the holy things of God. If they doe this hypocritically, what is that to vsus? But eſpecially marke that this is one cauſe of their ſeperation, yea a principall cauſe thereof, as he ſaith in another place. In theſe two reſpects principally, Anſwere to a cenſorious Epiſtle. pag. …your Babiloniſh confuſion of all ſorts of people in the body of your Church, without ſeperation, and your Babiloniſh bondage vnderunder your lords the prelates we account you Babylon, and flee from you. And ſpeaking of this want of ſeperation, Ibid. 43.and confuſion elſe where, he hath theſe words: It is not by our ſequeſtration, but by your confuſion, that Rome and hell gaines. Your odious commixture of all ſorts of people in the body of your Church, in whoſe lap the vileſt miſcreants are dandled, ſucking her breaſts as her naturall children: is that aduantageth hell. Wee ſee how this man condemneth the mixture of good and bad, godly and vngodly in the Church: calling it an odious commixture confuſion, and Babiloniſh confuſion: that principally for this, and one other cauſe they account vsus Babylon, and flye from vsus. And yet hath this commixture of all ſorts of people, beene euer in the Church, as hath beene manifeſted out of the ſacred Scripture. What age then could theſe men hauehave liued in, wherein they might not for this cauſe as iuſtly hauehave ſeperated from the Church, and hauehave accounted it likewiſe Babylon? It cannot be denied but that in Sauls raigne there were moſt vile men dandled (as you tearme it) in the lap of the Church, conſidering he himſelfe the head of that people was ſo vile: Nay, by the booke of the Pſalmes it is euident, that in Dauids time there were ſtore of leawde and vile men in the Church.Pſal. 12. & 69. And ſo were there in the dayes of Iſaiah, Ieremiah, and other of the Prophets. Yea what ſay you M. Robinſon to the age wherein Chriſt Ieſus liued and his Apoſtles? The Scribes and Phariſees then were moſt vile miſcreants, and they being princip…l members in the Church, as the eyes re in the body it muſt bee confeſſed that they did ſit in the lappe of the Church and ſucked her breaſts as if they had beene her naturall children. No leſſe vile were thoſe that had crept into the church of whom Iude ſpeaketh. Yet notwithſtanding this commixture and Babiloniſh confuſion as you call it, did neither the Prophets, nor Ieſus, nor his Apoſtles ſeperate from the Church, but had religious communion with this confuſed ſociety conſiſting of all ſorts of people. The commixture then in our Church you ſpeake of, is no iuſt cauſe of ſeperation, and why you ſhould account vsus Babylon. But r…turn… we to M. Robiſon.
Ibid. 4.The ſeperation wee hauehave made in reſpect of our knowledge, and obedience, is indeede late and newe, yet is it in the nature and cauſes thereof as auncient as the Goſpel, which was firſt founded in the enmitie which God himſelfe put betwixt the ſeede of the woman, and the ſeed of the ſerpent, G…n. 3.15. Which enmitie hath not onelyonly ben ſucceſsiuely continued, but alſo viſibly manifeſted by the actuall ſeperation of all true churches, from the world in their collection and conſtitution, before the Lawe, vnderunder the Lawe, and vnderunder the Goſpell, Gen. 4.13.14.16. & 6.1, 2. & 7.1.7. with 1. Pet. 3, 20.21. & 12. Leu 20.24.26. Neh. 9.2. Ioh. 17.14.16. Act. 2.40 & 19.9. 1. Cor. 6.17.A…ſwere.
If we ſpeake of practiſe among vsus, your ſeperation is as auncient as Browne, who firſt cauſed, or at leaſt greatly furthered that ſeperation and ſchiſme from our Church: where vponupon you are called Browniſts. But if you ſpeake of the doctrine, Auguſt. Tom. 7 contra. Creſco; Gram. lib. 2. cap. 34.then is it as auncient as Donatus, after whom ſome were called Donatiſts, or rather as ſome ſchiſmaticks in Cyprians time, of whom Auſten writing againſt the Donatiſts maketh mention. That the viſible Church is not a mixt company, conſiſting of good and bad but is a company ſeperated from the world, that is, from the men of the world, or a ſeperated company of righteous men, which all of you doe hold: this I ſay is neither founded of the Lawe nor Goſpell, nor any part of Gods word, but in the bottomles pit by the diuell the father of lyes, I meane, of all lying and falſe doctrines: and was long ſince publ ſhed,Auguſt Tom. 7 Coll…ti…n…bus cum Donatiſts. and contended for by the former heretickes, ſpecially the Donatiſts: who for this cauſe ſeperated from the Church of God in their times: and is now after many hundred yees renewed by you. He that giues eare heere to you, and to M. Ainſworth before (brethren in error) where he ſaith,Counterp. That the mixture of all ſorts, that is, good and bad in the viſible Church, is contrary to the fi…ſt couenant of our redemption, wherein God proclaimed a perpetuall enmitie and warre againſt the ſerpent and his ſeede, cannot but thereupon coniecture or col ect theſe two things. Firſt, that this enmity you ſpeake of, is not in the viſibl… church, and to be found among the members thereof; but betw…xt the Church and the world: and all in the viſible Chur…h are at peace among themſelues, and hauehave mutuall louelove …ach to other: according to your deſc…ipt…on of the viſible Church: That it is a company knit together by the bond of peace, and louelove vnfained. 2. That there are none of the ſerpents ſeede within the viſible Church, that is, none of the diuels children; or no wicked, neither ſecretly nor openly wicked: for the ſecret wicked be as well his ſeede, as the open wicked: theſe concluſions neceſſarily follow of theſe your premiſed lines, the ſcope and drift of them conſidered: which if you will proue vntounto vsus, we will embrace the ſeperation you contend for. In the meane ſeaſon knowe ye that wee from our ſoules abhorre both your doctrine and practiſe, and condemne them to the pit of hell, where this and all falſe doctrine was firſt founded. But tell me M. Robinſon, whether that enmitie betweene the ſeed of the woman, and the ſeede of the ſerpent, is not to be ſeene, or as you ſpeake viſibly manifeſted in our Church, notwithſtanding we hauehave not this actuall ſeperation you ſpeake of. I hope you will acknowledge it is ſo manifeſt, that a man cannot chuſe but ſee it, if hee feare God feele it alſo. Why then doe you ſay, that this enmitie is viſiblie manifeſted by this actuall ſeperation: Seeing it is to bee found wher this ſeperation is wanting. But let vsus heare M. Robinſon ſpeake once more.
Pag. 33:How we would hauehave behaued our ſelues in the Temple, where the many changers were, and they that ſold doues, we ſhall anſwere you, when you prooue your Church to be the Temple of God, compiled and built of ſpiritual hewen and liuely ſtones. 1. K. 5.17.18. & 6.7. 1. Pet. 2.5. And of the Cedars firres, and thyne trees of Lebanon, 2. Chron. 2.8. framed and ſet together in that comely order which a greater then Salomon hath preſcribed: vntounto which God hath promiſed his preſence. But while we take it to be (as it is) a confuſed heape of dead, and defiled, and polluted ſtones, and of all rubbiſh, of briers and brambles of the wilderneſſe, for the moſt part, fitter for burning then building, we take our ſelues rather bound to ſhewe our obedience in the departing from it, then our valour in purging it, and to followe the Prophets counſell in flying out of Babylon, as the hee Goate before the flocke, Ier. 50.8.
Heere is another conuiction of our Church, and confirmation of their Doctrine, to wit, that a viſible Church, is a company ſeperated from the world, that is, a company cōſiſting of righteous men onelyonly, hauing in it none that bee of this world. This conuiction is grounded vponupon the confuſion or commixture of good and bad in our Church. We are a confuſed heape of dead, and defiled, and polluted ſtones, and of all rubbiſh, and fewe liuing ſtones: whereas the true viſible Church is built onelyonly of liuely ſtones, ſpiritually hewen and ſquared. Whereupon Barrow ſaith, That the viſible Church enioyeth a moſt humble, meeke, obedient, faithfull, and louing people, eueryevery ſtone liuing, Elect, and precious, eueryevery ſtone hath his beautie his burden, and his order.
This latter which we deny, to wit,A true d…ſcription of the viſi… Church. pag. 2. That the viſible Church is built onelyonly of liuely ſtones, you ſeeme to your ſelues to proue by 1 Pet. 2.5. and to that purpoſe you quote it very often. We anſwere, that this place of Peter is true onelyonly, and to be vnderſtood of the militant Church, or whole company of the faithfull (members of the inuiſible Church) who alone are endued with the Spirit of God, which is the Spirit of Life: whereby of dead, they are made liuing ſtones; that is, of men dead in ſinne, able to liue vntounto God. Theſe onelyonly hauehave the life of God in them, and ſo onelyonly are theſe liuely ſtones: Epheſ. 4.18.of which life many of the viſible Church are deſtitute, hauing no more power, or abilitie to doe thoſe things which are pleaſing to God, then a ſtone to mooue it ſelfe. Such are all the reprobates, all the Hypocrites, and wicked in the Church. Of the viſible Church therefore this cannot bee meant, ſeeing many of it are dead ſtones. Obſerue alſo, that thoſe who here be called liuely ſtones, are ſaide to be made a ſpirituall houſe, as being that houſe or habitation wherein God dwelleth by his Spirit: whereof that materiall Temple built by Salomon, (wherein God did dwell, and was preſent after a ſpeciall ſort,) was a type and figure. But the Elect onelyonly, or thoſe of this ſocietie who be effectually called, make this Spirituall houſe, for as much as in them alone the Spirit of God and of Chriſt dwelleth: Therefore the Elect are meant by theſe liuely ſtones, and not the viſible Church, in many of which the Spirit of God doeth not dwell, But Sathan by his Spirit. Moreouer, thoſe heere called, or compared to liuing ſtones, are ſaid as an holy Prieſthood to offer vp Spiritall Sacrifices acceptable to God by Ieſus Chriſt: which many of the viſible Church neither doe nor can doe, their ſacrifices being an abomination to the Lord. By theſe liuely ſtones therefore are not meant the viſible Church and the members thereof, as you eueryevery where doe tell vsus.
But how prooue you that the Temple built by Salomon, was a type and figure of the viſible Church vnderunder the Goſpell, and thoſe goodly carued and poliſhed ſtones, whereof it was builded,1. Kin. 8.10.11.12. of the members thereof? I for my part doe thinke cleane otherwiſe: that by that glorious Temple, wherein God as in his houſe, and the place of his habitation dwelled, and which the Lord ſometimes filled with h…s glory, was ſignified: Firſt, Chriſt Ieſus in carnate, and made man; in whom all the fulnes of the Godhead dwelleth bodily.Col. 2.9. Deſtroy this Temple, and in three dayes I will raiſe it vp againe, 20. Then ſaide the Iewes, fortie and ſixe yeeres was this Temple a building, Ioh. 2.19.and wilt thou reare it vp in three dayes? But he ſpake of the Temple of his body. Secondly, that the inuiſible Church, and miſticall Body of Chriſt, in whom God alſo dwelleth by his Spirit: whereupon they are called the Temple of God, the Tabernacle of God, the habitation of God by the Spirit, and in this place of Peter a Spirituall houſe, and liuing ſtones. True it is M. Robinſon that in our Church, there are dead, defiled, and polluted ſtones, rubbiſh, bryers, and brambles of the wilderneſſe, fitter for burning then building, nay I grant you all that you vpbraide vsus with, and obiect againſt vsus, that wee are ſuch for the moſt part: what then? Are wee therefore a falſe Church? This is that you doe from hence inferre and conclude. O fooliſh men, and vnwiſe. Is eueryevery one in the viſible Church a liuely ſtone, and all the matter thereof fit for building, and none for burning? This you here imply, and Barrow plainely affirmeth. Then in the viſible Church there are no reprobates: for they I am ſure are fit for burning, and not for building. Prou. 16.4. Matth. 13.40. & 25.41.They are made (ſaith Salomon) for the day of euill. And Ieſus thus: The tares are gathered, and burned in the fire. And againe, depart from me ye curſed, into euerlaſting fire. I hope the rubbiſh, the bryers, and brambles in our Church, are no more vnfit for building, nor more fit for burning, then tares be: which are ſo mixed among the wheat, that without dāger to the wheat they cānot be weeded out, nor ſeperated from it vntil the harueſt. But tel me I pray you whē the church was without this rubbiſh, bryers and brambles you ſpeake of. It is cleere by the Scriptures, not in the daies of the Apoſtles, nor of our Lord Ieſus; not in Iſaiah his time, nor Ieremiah his time, nor yet any of the Prophets. Not in Dauids time, nor in Moſes time, nor yet when the Church of God was ſhut vp in a Family: for in Iſaack his family there was an Eſau, as vvell as a Iacob; and in Abrahams, an Iſmael as vvell as an Iſaack: nay there vvas ſome of this rubbiſh to be found in the Church, when it conſiſted but of eight perſons, yea but of foure. Nay, this vvill proue your ancient Church at Amſterdam to bee Babylon, at leaſt if any credit be to bee giuen to the report of diuers vvho hauehave been in, and of that Church; to the printed bookes of M. White, and G. Iohnſon, and that of late ſet forth by foure: wherevpon ſome hauehave left and forſooke that Church, and come backe to ours. It may bee alſo M. Robinſon that for this cauſe, you your ſelfe hauehave left both M. Iohnſons Church then and M. Ainſworths alſo. I will therefore ſay nothing of their Congregations, but onelyonly aske you a queſtion or two concerning your owne, Is your Church the Temple of God, compiled and built of ſpiritually hewen and liuely ſtones; and of the Cedars, Firrs, and thine trees of Lebanon? Are there no dead defiled, and polluted ſtones therein, no rubbiſh, but all liuely ſtones, elect and precious? No bryers, nor brambles, but all vines, bringing forth pleaſant Grapes? No vvicked and vngodly men, but all Saints, ſanctified by the Spirit of God, who dwelleth in his Temple, giueth life to eueryevery ſtone thereof, and cauſeth eueryevery branch of the Vine to bring forth fruit? Surely then are not ye alſo a true viſible Church: for it is a mixt company conſiſting of good and bad; godly and vngodly, as hath been proued at large: But ſuch a ſocietie is not yours, and therefore not a true viſible Church. At leaſt this proueth you not to bee a true viſible Church, as you imply it vvould proue vsus one, if theſe things could be truely ſaid of vsus. For as a viſible Church may be knowne and diſcerned by men, and therevpon it is ſaid to be viſible: ſo it is knowne to be a Church, by ſuch things as men can ſee, that is, know and diſcerne of. But that yee all are liuely ſtones, none dead, none defiled among you: and that in that vineyard of yours there groweth no bryers nor brambles, but onelyonly the pleaſant and ſweet grapes, is more then men can poſsibly know or diſcerne: yea that any of you is a liuing ſtone: much leſſe that you all bee ſuch. They may hope well of you, giuing credit to the teſtimonie you giuegive of your ſelues, which is ſuſpitious: but this is not knowledge. This notwithſtanding then, your congregation alſo may bee no better then a falſe Church, and a company of Schiſmatickes.
But you will ſay, if there were but ſome bryers and brambles of the wilderneſſe in your Church, it were to bee borne with, but ye are ſuch for the moſt part. Bee it ſo: this notwithſtanding we may be a true Church: for the Iewes in the times of Dauid Iſaiah, Ieremiah, Micah, and of Chriſt Ieſus, were for the moſt part no better then brambles, and bryers, and yet then a true Church.Micah. 7.1.5. The good man (ſaith Micah) is periſhed out of the earth, and there is none righteous among men: they all lye in wait for bloud: eueryevery man hunteth his brother with a net. The beſt of them is a brier, and the moſt righteous of them is ſharper then a thorne hedge. And here I demaund of you and the reſt of your faction, who condemne our Church for a falſe Church, becauſe there be in it many wicked, and few godly: whether the greateſt part of the viſible Church be not Reprobates,Mat. 13.3. and by conſequent wicked, rubbiſh, briers and brambles, fit for nothing but the fire. I know you will anſwere negatiuely, otherwiſe you are conui…ced. What ſay you then to the parable of the ſeede,Mat. 22.14. and to that ſpeech of our Lord Ieſus ſo often vrged before by mee, many are called, but few choſen? Thus wee ſee this allegorie of yours is not worth a bramble: or is as a bryer or bramble compared with ſweet flowers: ſeruing rather to pricke, annoy, and hurt, then to ſend forth a ſweet ſauour.
For the aboue named cauſe you account vsus Babylon, depart from vsus, and ſay, That you take your ſelues rather bound to ſhew your obedience in departing from our Church, then your valour in purging it. If we be Sion, then you ſlander a whole Church, and Blaſpheme in calling it Babylon: and your departing from it, is ſo farre from obedience, that it is rebe…lion, which is as the ſinne of Witch-craft. But you are bound (you ſay) to depart from vsus. Who hath obliged you therevnto? Not God in and by his word, to whom onelyonly wee ſtand bound, and owe our ſelues and ſeruice:Rom. 8.12. but M. Iohnſon, and M. Ainſworth, or happely Browne or Barrow in and by their writings. The holy Prophets, Chriſt Ieſus, and his Apoſtles hauehave giuen you other example, whom you ſhould hauehave imitated. As they did not forſake the Church becauſe of the manifold corruptions therein, but continuing in the ſame ſought by all good meanes the purgation and reformation of it: ſo ought yee to hauehave done.
Laſtly, you tell vsus, That as the hee goates flee before the flocks, ſo doe you from our Church. If from our Church you had crept with the Snaile, you had made two much haſt away. But heare and conſider what I ſay vntounto you in the name of the Lord. Repent you of your lyes and errors, of your ſlandering, and blaſpheming of the Church of Chriſt, from which you hauehave ſo haſtily runne away. Leaſt otherwiſe you one day ſtand among the Goates, and hauehave that fearefull ſentence pronounced of you, Depart from me ye curſed. I know (ſaith Ieſus) the blaſphemie of them which ſay they are Iewes, and are not, Mat. 25.41. Reue. 2.5.but are the Synagogue of Satan. As this is blaſpemie, ſo aſſuredly to account them Antichriſts, Samaritans, Edomites, Moabites, Parall. 6.26.Ammonites and Iſhmailites, who are Iewes: and thoſe Babilon, Egypt, Sodome, falſe Churches, Antichriſtian Churches, the Synagogues of of Satan, the holds of all foule ſpirits, Defence of the Churches and Miniſters of England 6.and cages of eueryevery vncleane and hurtfull bird, which are the congregations of Saints, and Churches of God, is likewiſe blaſphemie.
Thus hauehave I anſwered all that M. Robinſon obiecteth in a little Pamphelet of his intituled An anſwere to a Cenſorious Epiſtle: Let vsus heare now what he ſaith concerning the ſame point in a more large volume lately publiſhed, called a Iuſtification of Seperation from the Church of England. And though you M. Bernard ſay it neuer ſo oft and all the Diuines in the world with you, that the viſible Church is a mixt company, yet doe the diuine Scriptures ſpeake otherwiſe. And with the Scriptures I doe affirme againſt you that the Church of Chriſt is no ſuch mingled m…ſlnie, Pag. 112.or monſtrous compound, but a body ſimple, vniforme, and one, proportionable in eueryevery member vntounto the head, informed by one ſpirit, and called in one hope. And twelue lines after. Wee doubt not but the pureſt Church vponupon earth may conſiſt of good and bad in Gods eye, of ſuch as are truely faithfull and ſanctified, and of ſuch as hauehave onelyonly for a time put on the outſide and vizard of ſanctitie. And againe, after that hee hath produced and peruerted many teſtimonies of holy Scripture to proue that all in the viſible Church are holy and good, and none other therein, he addeth theſe words:Iuſtif. 115. Here is no ſuch mingle mangle as M. Bernard would make of good and bad, but all good and ſo auowed by the holy Ghoſt, though without doubt many of theſe were masked and hallow hearted hypocrites.
I will onelyonly fight againſt you here with your owne weapons, for I neede to vſe none other. The pureſt Churches (ſay you) may conſiſt of good and bad, faithfull and vnfaithfull, of holy and prophane: (for are not they prophane who hauehave onelyonly the outſide of holineſſe, being within full of all filthineſſe.) Alſo, that in the ſame there hauehave been many wicked and hollow hearted hypocrites, all which were wicked: But a company conſiſting of ſuch as all theſe, is a mixt company, and a monſtrous or miſerable compound: being compounded of two ſorts of men who bee as contrarie one to another, as light to darknes, Chriſt and Belial: of Gods children, and the Diuels children; of the children of light, and the children of darkneſſe: Therefore the pureſt Churches conſiſt of a mixt company, and conſequently is not ſimple, vniforme &c. as you teach. If the pureſt Church that is be a mixt company, much more they that be leſſe pure. And who in their wits but would affirme, that ſuch a body politick were vnmixt, ſimple, and one, ſpecially that it were proportionable in eueryevery member vntounto the head, and informed by one ſpirit? What eueryevery member M. Robinſon? What proportion and likeneſſe is there betweene Chriſt; and Hypocrites, many of which in the generall you acknowledge to be in the Church? Betwixt the ſonnes of God, and the children of the Diuell: ſome of which we muſt needs confeſſe to be in the Church? elſe all in the viſible Church are indeed the children of God, then which nothing is more falſe. If eueryevery member be informed by the ſpirit of God, then eueryevery one in the viſible Church hath the ſpirit animating him. Indeede this M. Smith teacheth expreſſely, and all of you implicitely: But how truely I hauehave ſhewed, in the next Chapter. If eueryevery one in this viſible Church, be informed by one and the ſame ſpirit, then if any in the viſible Church hauehave the Spirit of God, all hauehave. And contrariwiſe: If any in the viſib. Church be informed by the vncleane ſpirit, all are. Moreouer if eueryevery member of the viſible Church bee called in one hope, then if any one in that viſible Church, hauehave that hope,Rom. 8.24. the end whereof is the ſaluation of mans ſoule, all hauehave it: and ſo on the contrarie, as before, Behold what concluſions doe follow from your premiſes: whereby wee may know how orthodoxall they be. God forbid that all the Diuines in the world, ſhould teach ſuch poſitions as theſe. Hee hath itching cares vvho vvill rather giuegive care to you, and two or three ſuch more as your ſelfe, then all the Diuines in the world. Speake no more thus preſumptuouſly. You may remember vvhat ſometimes I ſaid vntounto you mouth to mouth: The ſpirit of the Prophets is ſubiect to the Prophets, (that is) the doctrine (which all men conceit is from the ſpirit) of the prophets, is ſubiect to the iudgement of the Prophets.
The ground of this your erring is not, that you thinke, that there are no wicked in the viſible Church, for you confeſſe that there are wicked in the viſible Church, yea men deſperately wicked: but becauſe in your conceit, the wicked that be in the viſible Church, are not true members of the viſible Church. That this is ſo, it appeareth by your words next following the former. And for wicked, and vngodly perſons ſo far are they from being the true naturall members whereof the body conſiſteth, as the whole of the parts, Inſtif. 112. & 110.as they ſerue indeede for no other purpoſe then to infect, and corrupt the reſt, and if redreſſe bee not had in time, to eate out the very heart of the whole. Againe: And for the church of the Iewes, and of Corinth in which you inſtance, as they were holy, ſo they were deſperately wicked amongſt them no true members of the body, but as putrified and rotten parts to be cut off and caſt out from the reſt.
I anſwere: as putrified and rotten parts of the body, are members of the body, vntill they be cut of: ſo wicked men putrifying and ſtinking with ſpirituall vncleaneneſſe, their ſin…es, rotten and vnſound at the heart, are members of the viſible Church, and that body politicke, vntill by excommunication they be cut of. And as a rotten tooth that is no way profitable but hurtfull, ſeruing onelyonly to infect and corrupt the reſt, is notwithſtanding a part or member of the body vntill it be plucked out: ſo the vvicked and vngodly that be in the viſible Church that ſerue indeede for no other purpoſe then to vexe infect and corrupt the reſt, are neuertheleſſe members of the viſible Church vntill by excommunication they be cut of. The falſitie of this your conceit, I hauehave further diſcouered in the Chapter following, vvhereto I referre the Reader, onelyonly in the meane ſeaſon remember this, and forget it not: That all vvhichwhich bee in the viſible Church are members of it, vntill by excommunication they bee cut of: But (by your owne confeſsion) wicked men are in the viſible Church: therefore wicked men are members of it. Which if it bee true, all your doctrine (almoſt of the viſible Church is falſe.
But to put an end to this point and part of your deſcription. By the premiſes it is plaine, that a true viſible Church is not ſeperated from the world, that is, a company of righteous and godly men onelyonly, ſeperated from the open wicked of the world. For if a viſible Church be a mixt company of good and bad, godly and vngodly, for which cauſe it is compared to a barne floore, to a field, and to a draw-net, as hath been ſhewed out of the holy Scriptures: againe if from time to time in the ages precedent, both vnderunder the Law and Goſpell there hauehave beene and remained in the true viſible Church vvicked, yea many wicked, and open wicked, as hath likewiſe been made manifeſt by the Scriptures: how can it poſsible be true which you affirme, That a viſible Church is a ſeperated companie of righteous men, not mixed with, but ſeperated from the wicked of the world? If this doctrine of yours be true, the one of theſe doe neceſſarily follow: either the former perſons of whom I hauehave ſpoken ſo much, Iſmael, Eſau, Doeg, Saul, Abſalom▪ the Scribes and Phariſes were not openly wicked, and men of this world: or not in the Church, but without: or elſe that the Church wherein they in th…ir time liued, was not a true, but a falſe Church. The premiſes conſidered, it is very fondly done of you ſo often to obiect againſt vsus, the mixture of good and bad in our Church. Calling it Cofuſion, Babel, Babiloniſh confuſion, and our Churches becauſe of it Babylon; and a meere madneſſe for this cauſe to ſeperate from our Church. And thus much concerning this clauſe in your deſcription, ſeperated from the world.
The reſt of your deſcription I omit, as not greatly to bee found fault with, though ſomething might bee ſaid againſt it. For where you ſay, It is a company ioyned together by voluntarie profeſsion, you ſhould ra…her hauehave ſaid ioyning together &c. Wee are ioyned and knit together by louelove, and doe ioyne and agree in the ſame profeſsion. And where you require a voluntarie profeſsion of the faith of Chriſt, and tels vsus elſewhere, that a true Church conſiſteth of a voluntary people, and that ours are confuſed and compelled, and ſo a falſe church: You muſt know that a man may bee of the viſible Church, albeit his profeſsion be not voluntarie, as hath been declared before. Neither is that ſo fit you adde of the Faith of Chriſt, as if you had ſaid of the true Religion. The Papiſts profeſſe the faith of Chriſt, and ſo doe the Anabaptiſts, Families, with ſundry others: and yet are they falſe Churches. But whatſoeuer ſocietie profeſſeth true Religion, is a true church. To conclude,Apology 44. Confeſsion of Faith. 11. Counterp. 133. this I ſay, that vnderſtanding theſe words, ſeperated from the world, as Chriſt meaneth Ioh. 17.14.16. and 15.19. Which teſtimonies you here in your confeſsion of faith, and in the Counterpoyſon alledge for the proofe of this, and therefore muſt ſo vnderſtand them, without manifeſt peruerting of the ſaid Scriptures: then is this a deſcription rather of the militant Church, or thoſe of the inuiſible Church that are effectually called, then of the viſible Church.