Reply to John Deacon, Treatise 2
A REPLIE TO THE SECOND DIALOGVE.
THe ſecond part of my Doctrine treateth, That thoſe eight before mentioned were verily dispoſſeſſed, & that by faſting and prayer, the meanes appointed by God. For confirmation wherof, I knew no better rule then the example of men diſpoſſeſſed in holy Scripture, which is the onelyonly true and vnſallible touchſtone to examine both this, and all other actions by. Theſe Anſwerers ſcorne theſe notes, calling pag. 8… ▪them falſly pretended ſignes of dispoſſeſsion from ſacred Scripture, and therefore pretermitting them, require my argumentes, as if the Signes from Scripture were no arguments at all. It ſeemeth you hauehave found a veine of better mettal then the Scriptures, frō whence your whole booke is ſo full ſtuffed with your owne ſhining droſſe, and is ſo vtterly deſtitute of this purified gold. Yet you cannot beat me from them, but I vrge them thus: There were in our Demoniakes the ſelfe ſame ſignes or notes of dispoſſeſſion, precedent and ſubſequent, which wee rea…e of in the Scripture Demoniakes, and therefore the ſame dispoſſeſſion▪ you anſwere, There were not the ſame ſignes in our demoniakes: and firſt, becauſe they were meere coſonages, as is confeſſed freely by the parties themſelues vponupon their owne oathes. I reply, the parties we ſpeake of, bee eight in number, whereof onelyonly Sommers hath made this curſed confeſſion: which was not free and voluntaries, Detect. pag. 127.as you vntruly affirme, but extorted by Satan, and his inſtruments, as in my Detection I hauehave made manifeſt. But what ſay you to the ſeuen in Lancaſhire? It may be Sommers hath ſworne for thē all: for they as yet, were neuer examined: yet becauſe we doubt of Somers general oath, I pray you proue vntounto vsus, who taught the children to counterfeit? when, and where, and by what meanes they were taught? what end might induce them to imbrace ſuch teaching? whether the parents were priuy to it? and what they propounded in practiſing ſuch wickedneſſe? Yea, put Sommers too into the roll, & ſhew vsus what man is able by practiſe to do the things that either Sommers or they did? And one woulde thinke a man of meane agility might quickly performe that, which cofoning yong boyes and girles could. Shew vsus, I beſeech you, theſe and ſuch like things, or otherwiſe if you cannot ſhew thē, & yet tel vsus of coſ…nage, you ſhew vsus nothing but your long eares, & braſen faces. Secondly, …g. 83.ſay you, The ſignes in the Scripture Demoniakes were ſenſibly perc…iued by the beholders: but theſe in your pretended Demoniakes were not ſo, by your own confeſsion. Belike all we that were ſpectators of our Demoniakes, being (at ſundrie times) a great multitude, were all ſtricken with blindneſſe, with deafneſſe, and with a benummednes, and yet we all thought we vſed our ſenſes, and I am ſure, wee were no ſooner out of the place, but we were able, the Lord bee thanked, to ſee, heare and feele. But you confirme this by mine own confeſsion, …ct. pag. 37which ſaith, that the ſpirit could not poſsibly be felt or ſeene. I ſaid ſo, & ſay ſo againe, that Spirits cannot be felt or ſeene in their owne bare eſſence, but as they make themſelues knowne vntounto vsus by their effects. I angling Sophiſters will diſpute, That the noſe of a mans face cannot be ſeene, becauſe that which we ſee is but colour or forme, and the noſe it ſelfe is neither of both. Your eares ring it may bee with their noiſe, which hath made you borrow an argument from them. Thirdly, you ſay, The Signes we report are falſe: which I would graunt you if your ſelues had learned to ſpeake truth. We muſt remember there are aboue two hundred witneſſes hereof liuing at this day, of which ſome hauehave depoſed the ſame wee report of Sommers. Fourthly, ſay you, Scripture Signes can argue no Dispoſſeſsion now, becauſe like effects may ariſe frō naturall cauſes, and coporall diſeaſes. By this your good helpe Atheiſts might ouerthrow all Poſſeſſions and Diſpoſſeſsions in the ſcripture. But howſoeuer you may be friendly to ſuch vile wretches, yet hauehave they no foothold from hence. For neither thoſe effects in thoſe ancient Demoniakes, nor in theſe of our time iointly & wholy conſidered can proceed from naturall diſeaſe. Naturall cauſes can bring forth no ſupernaturall effects, as we hauehave demōſtrated theſe to be in ſpight of your ſeuenth Dialogue, and what other treaty ſo euer you oppoſe againſt it. Laſtly, ſay you, A diſpoſſeſsion may bee without ſuch apparant ſignes, and therefore your ſignes precedent and ſubſequent do not neceſſarily conclude a dispoſſeſsion. What? Becauſe it is ſometimes without theſe ſignes, therefore where theſe ſignes are, ſhall it not be? It is ſometime day light without the cleare ſunſhine, therefore when the Sunne ſhines cleare ſhall it not be day? Sometimes the murderer ſlayes a man and is not taken with the manner, therefore if he be taken with the manner, ſhall he not neceſſarily bee concluded a murtherer? Theſe are good rules to make a man impudent in ſinne: for by them the bold offender ſhall ſpeede better, then hee that doth it minchingly▪ You hauehave ſpoken then pretily againſt theſe ſignes, but without any ſigne of truth or wit.
From Scripture ſignes I deſcend to ſome experimented by my ſelfe in dealing with Demoniakes, which hauehave reported certaine viſible ſhapes, in which the diuels ſeemed to depart from them. But here I am taken vp for halting, in that I call it My experience, which was proued in the perſons of other. I confeſſe I ſpake rudely, as all other men do, which call a phyſition a man of good experience, though he hath not proued all the diſeaſes, he hath dealt with, in his owne body. pag. 84.As for viſible ſhapes, you vtterly deny, that Spirits could procure thē: yet they did before Pharaoh, and infinite others ſince, as wee hauehave ſhewed by better arguments in my ſuruey of your fourth and fift Dialogues, then you euer hauehave, or can for the contrarie. Some alſo I ſhew did vomit, or ſtraine to vomit when the diuel departed. With pag. 85.this you make good ſport, perhaps ticled with remembrance, that you hauehave returned to your owne vomit.
Further, I concluding a diſpoſſeſsion, from the preſent effect of our prayers (wherof the like is not in naturall diſeaſes.) You charge me with proper tearmes, as with certaine charming words to coniure the Lord with, for ſo it pleaſeth your prophane mouthes to ſpeake. And yet I do not vſe the word proper. OnelyOnly I ſay, And God heard our prayer vit…red in ſuch tearmes▪ that is, made to that effect, as before I hauehave ſhewed in briefe. I neuer dreamed that ſuch▪ Argooſes would come after mee with ſo manie eyes, to finde an hole in my coate for theſe words more thē in all other mens. But to let words paſſe, you would diſproue the effect of our prayers, for that we could not pag. 86.make the parties the Temples of the holy Ghoſt, as we had prayed. Wee challenge no ſuch power, but we might well hope of the mercy of the Lord to ſanctifie them, which did plainly behold his great good neſſe in deliuering them from Satans great rage. Howſoeuer mee thinks you ſhould not be offended with vsus for putting vp this requeſt to God. And what if the Lord doth not alwayes yeelde preſent ſucceſſe to the prayers of his ſeruants? Could we not therfore be aſſured he had now heard vsus, when we ſaw the thing performed before our eyes▪ It is true the Diuel ſometime ſeemeth to depart, when he doth not but when it is at the requeſts of Gods people▪ when it is after ſuch grieuous vexation as was in the Demoniakes in the Goſpell, when it is with the health of the parties, and preſent freedome from all former vexations dy Satan, wee need not doubt of it in any ſort. For the viſible departure of Satan, I anſwered you euen very now.
…ag. 87. 88▪ …9. Matt. 12. 43Beſides, I alleage for Diſpoſſeſsion, Satans deſire of repoſſeſsion, which is neuer but after he is throwne out. You returne a double anſwere, firſt, that theſe wordes, I will returne to the houſe from whence I came, &c. be metaphoricall. Wee remember indeede your monſtrous abſurditie in making all things whatſouer, spoken of Angels, and diuels in the ſcripture▪ to be Meaphoricall. But as I hauehave ſhewed you, manie are not Metaphoricall, ſo neither is this repecting the ſentence of Matt. 12. 45it. The words be part of a ſimilitude, as is plaine by the reddition, So ſhall it be to this wicked generation. The whole ſtandeth thus. As when an vncleane ſpirit goeth forth of a man, paſſeth through drie places ſeeking reſt, and findeth none: then faith, I will returne to my houſe, &c. entring againe in, the laſt eſtate of that man is worſe thē the firſt▪ ſo ſhal it be to this wicked generatiō. Now to find what paſt of this ſentence is Metaphoricall, we are to know that a ſimilitude is twofold. One which is contracted & ſhut vp in one word, properly called a Metaphor▪ the other diſplaid & ſpread open, conſiſting of all the parts at large, and is tearmed by the name of the generall, a Similitude. For the figuratiue part in either, the reaſon is one in both. Therfore as in a contracted ſimilitude, the Metaphor lyeth in the word that is borrowed, and not in that from▪ whence it is borrowed, ſo in the larger ſimilitude, the metaphoricall part of it reſteth in the Reddition, not in the Propoſition. For example▪ Honour nouriſheth Artes: the word Nouriſheth being borrowed frō meats nouriſhing the bodie, is a Metaphor as it is applyed to Honour, and Artes, but attributed to his proper termes, it is no Metaphor, as to ſay thus, Meat nouriſheth the body. In like manner (to make a full Similitude of it, in this ſort) As meat nouriſheth the body, ſo Honour nouriſheth Artes, the Metaphoricall part of the whole, lyeth in the latter member, not in the firſt. So likewiſe when our Sauiour ſaith, As a man deliuered from the poſſeſsion of Satan, and receiuing him in againe, is in worſe caſe after, then before: So the nation of the Iewes, once deliuered from the kingdome of Satan, ſo long as the church of God was amongſt them, and comming into his ſubiection againe by refuſing Chriſt, ſhould bee in more miſerable condition then in any former time: the Metaphoricall ſentence of this Similitude, is in the laſt branch of it, not in the firſt. Not becauſe there be no Metaphoricall words in the firſt, as Drie places, houſe emptie, ſwept, garniſhed. &c. but for that wee now ſpeake of Metaphoricall ſentences, not of words. I frame my argument from the Propoſition of the Similitude, the ſentence whereof is literall and hiſtoricall, not from the Reddition, whoſe ſenſe is allegoricall. Now then i… a man ſhould reaſon thus: The Reddition of the Similitude is Metaphoricall, therefore the whole is metaphocall, it is all one as if one ſhould ſay, The blacke Moore bath white teeth, therefore he is all white. Which kinde of argument euerie chimney-ſweeper would deride: and yet thus you reaſon from this place, and make it one of your chiefeſt props to vpholde your abſurd concluſions with. But vntounto this place I added another, where our Sauiour ſaith to the vncleane ſpirit, Come out of him, and enter Mat. 9. 25.no more into him. Was our Sauiours prohibition here in vaine? was this caution altogether needleſſe and ſuperſ…uo us? How chaunce you paſſ ouer this place, withoutanſwerīg one word vntounto it▪ It was too plaine: and you two could not agree where the Metaphor ſhould lie, & therefore thought better to ſlip it ouer, then by handling it, and bewraying your owne abſurdities to marre all. The reentrie therfore of Satan is plaine by the Scriptures: ſo that we need not the teſtimonie of any experience: yet I hauehave adioyned in the Doctrine the report of the children diſpoſſeſſed, and the euidence of many godly then preſent, which perceiued by their agonie, and the words of their reſiſtance, what Satan attempted. You trifle ouer this with greater childiſhneſſe then appeared in the childrē, though but nine or tenne yeares old, and therefore I diſdaine to anſwere it▪ Againe for proofe of diſpoſſeſsion, I alleage thē continuance of the parties health ſince: you anſwere: Their former fittes were but counterterfeit, pag. 90.a… themſelues hauehave confeſſed. A ſtale proofe of their counterfeiting, and anſwered before. The ſeuen in Lancaſhire neuer confeſſed any counterfeiting.
pag. 91. 92. 93.Thus hauing confirmed Diſpoſſeſsion, I remoue that vſuall obiection, ſhewing it is now no miracle, for that it is not done by abſolute power of Chriſt in bodily preſence, as he ſometimes did it when he was here conuerſant on earth▪ nor by any committed extraordinary power to men but by …aſting an… pra…er as the means▪ you anſwere firſt: as if I affirmed Chriſts abſolute power to be ceaſ…d: which I affirme not, but account ſuch affirmation blaſphemie▪ He is not now preſent in bodie on earth, but worketh by his abſolute authoritie ſtill. Secondly, If Chriſts abſolute author…ty be th…o…ly …fficient▪ then the worke is a… miraculous, as euer. Which is a flat vntruth, as I ha…e proued at large in …our tenth Dialogue. For works done by men as inſtruments are diſtinguiſhed by the maner of working, and not by the principall cauſe. you ſay my Similitude from the Queene, and Lord Chauncelour is too abſurd: for firſt, it is a caſe which neuer ſhall be, and ſo cannot illuſtrate. I had thought that fictaſimilitudo might hauehave had ſome force. But ſurely as you are full of newe Diuinitie, ſo I thinke you hauehave ſwallowed Margaritam Philoſophiae, you breake out on euerie occaſion with ſuch wonderfull new axiomes of Logicke. I intended that Similitude to the manner onelyonly of Chriſts working, and you would extend it to the like glory of his works now, cleane beyond my purpoſe, and any good probabilitie. For are not Chriſts workes more glorious, when together with him ſelfe his ſeruants worke extraordinarily, as they did in the time of miracles, then now, when his ſeruants working is only ordinarie. But you will make the ſame ſimilitude ouerthrow all miracles now, which I will yeeld for any, but for your ſelues: for you hauehave a priuiledge to do miracles, as is apparant in your tenth Dialogue.
…ag. 94.Hitherto for Dispoſſeſsion, now for the meanes: which I affirme with many godly and learned of auncient and our owne times, Matt. 17. 21to be faſting and prayer, out of the words of our Sauiour, This kinde go…th not out but by faſting and prayer. Where I calling it a Secret ordinance, oppoſe it to more euident places: you catch at the word, and Deut. 29, 29come vponupon me with Secret things belong onelyonly to God. He that ſhould deale with you had neede, as the Lawyers in writing their inſtruments, rather hauehave twentie words to ſpare, then to want one. You would proue, theſe words did onelyonly belong to the Diſciples, becauſe the …ag. 95. 96.queſtion was made by them, and the anſwere to them. The Iayler in the 16. of the Acts ſayd to Paul and Silas, What muſt I do to be ſaued? They anſwere him: Beleeue in the Lord Ieſus Chriſt and thou ſhalt be ſaued, &c. Doth this Scripture now only belong to the Iaylor, becauſe this queſtion was made by him, & the anſwer vntounto him? Of Matt. 17. 21this kind be infinite other places. For interpretation of theſe words of Saint Matthew, I hauehave ſhewed you how I conceiue of them in your ninth Dialogue. Which expoſition varieth ſomwhat from my former, not becauſe I cannot maintaine it againſt any thing you obiect, but becauſe I ſeeke after truth, and not after vaine iangling. If you can ſhew me any better, I will be readie alſo to change this. In meane ſeaſon vnderſtand how I reaſon from hence for the perpetual meanes of Faſting and prayer, which are mentioned by our Sauiour in this place, either as helpes to the extraordinarie and miraculous faith of the Apoſtles, or elſe of the ordinarie. But they are not Math. 7. 17.mentioned as helpes to the extraordinarie: for miraculous faith in the leaſt quantity, though no more then a graine of muſtard ſeede was able without theſe helpes to expell any diuell. Beſides they could not be helpes to that, which in it ſelfe had no being. For the Diſciples had vtterly loſt their miraculous faith, elſe they had elected the ſpirit. This alſo the word Apiſtia, incrdulity doth note vn to vsus. And an helpe is a conioyned force, which coniunction cannot be, where there is nothing to ioyne withall▪ and therefore they bee propo unded in this place as helpes to the ordinary faith, and ſo to hauehave a perpetuall ordinarie vſe, when like occaſion is miniſtred to vsus. Againe, eueryevery Exception is a compendious ſpeech, comprehending in it two propoſitions, as, Except a man be borne againe, he cannot Ioh. 33. Ioh. 6. 44. Act. …7. 31ſee the kingdome of God▪ wherein is concluded alſo this, If f a man be borne againe he can ſe the kingdome of God. So, None can come vntounto me except the Father draw him. EueryEvery one can come vntounto mee, whom my Father draweth. Againe, Except theſe abide in the ſhip, you cannot be ſaued. If theſe abide in the ſhip, you can be ſaued. And ſo in all other. In like manner, This kind doth not go forth, but by prayer and faſting. This kind doth go forth by prayer and faſting. Now thē let men o… iudgement determine whether here be not an euident confirmation of the ordinarie courſe of the Church in dealing after this maner▪ and whether it be not exceeding boldneſſe, our Sauiour affirming in ſuch ſort as is declared▪ That this kind doth goe forth by prayer and faſting, for any to open his mouth licenciouſly agaīſt it, and to diſgrace it by al opprobrious tearmes he can. From hence too you may ſee, the ſimilitude drawne from the Phyſition ſaying to his patient, daungerouſly ſicke of the Pleuriſy, You cannot liue, except you bleed, was to good purpoſe, if you could iudge what is to purpoſe.
It is too tedious to repeat all your vntruthes, your abſurd Non ſequiturs, and idle profes. As if I thought it vnreaſonable for Christ to pag. 99reproue his Diſciples negligence: if Chriſts anſwere were not proper to the Diſciples, it was no anſwere: if he directed not his ſpeech to the Diſciples onelyonly, he ſpake to no body preſent. This mettal craues no touchſtonne, it ſhewes it ſelfe by the eye what it is: therefore a knocke with an hammer is ſufficient So, If this anſwere of Chriſt propounded an ordinance for al ages to come, there is an ordinance without an appointed ſubiect to vnde…go the ſame. Indeed this would be ſtraunge for Accidents to walke alone without ſubiects. It is a difficult matter to finde who ſhould be the ſubiect of faſting and praver: ſo likewiſe too of the Matt. 6.kingdom of God, which our Sauiour ordaineth to be ſought in the firſt place, and food and rayment in the ſecond, if we could tell who g. 100.… do it▪ …eſides ſucceeding ages that could expell this cumberſom… … ſh…uld hauehave more power the eu…r the A…ſtles bad, which is falſe: for the Apoſtles, their▪ſaith not fayling, could expell any diuell. Further, The Apo…les ſhould …aile in not d…cla…ing this ordinance vntounto vsus: concerning which ynough hath beene ſai…e in the ninth Dialogue. I aſt…y, it … eſtabl…ſhed ordi…ance in this place, becauſe M Darr…ll af…th it hath b…ene a … ordinance fr…m the beginning. I anſwere, I doe not refe…e the originall to this place, but onelyonly the Confirmation, Iath. 19 99 … 12. 27 Act. 16. 13.no otherwiſe then I make Matrimony an eſtabliſhed ordinance by our Sauiour Chriſt, he rene…ing the inſtitution of it.
Againe▪ I argue the meanes of faſting and prayer from the example of the Iewes Church in our Sauiours time: wherin ſome did caſt forth diuels▪ and yet were not in the number of our Sauiours Diſciples, neither did it in his name. You anſwere, I contrarie my ſel…e, affirming …l…e where, they did it by the …inger of God: I reply, …ou …do not contrary your ſelfe▪ but are euer li…e your ſelues, moſt abſur…ly concluding the ſelfe ſame working of the inſtrument, from the ſame maner of the principall agent: whereas the chiefe doer being the ſame, may and doth worke by the inſtrument diuerſly. Againe, ſay you by mine …wne conſeſsion, this ordinance as then was not eſtabliſhed▪ I anſwere, is was not ſo plainely, as when our …auiour confirmed it by theſe words, yet in generall it was, and practiſed in the Church before. Moreouer, ſay you, Thoſe in our Sauiours time beſides …th. 7▪ 22his Diſciples▪ caſt out diuels by miraculous faith only, for which you alleage the ſeuenth of Matth…w I reply, this ſcripture ſpeaketh onelyonly of the e…ection of Satan but ſheweth not in what manner the ſame was performed, nor when▪ We do not leane vponupon any doubtfull vncertainties, as you would Rhetorically declare, if ye knew how▪ neither do we take the Lords holy name in vain…, nor pray with…ut faith▪ as you prate both without wit and conſcience. I paſſe ouer your fooleries concerning K. Wright, & your ſixe lies at one clap▪ contained … 103. … 104.in ſeuen lines, as I can proue to your ſhame. But what ſpeake I of ſixe, when I dare ſay there be ſixe hundred leaſings in …our two volumes? VVe neede not take things of whole ſal… men by retale: it …s …n ea…y matter to know b… …our l…ing whoſe children ve are
That Chriſts speech ought not t… be a…propriated to the Diſciples, hath bee…e declared. Neither …o I ſay and unſay as …ou falſly charge me. pag. 105. 106.The communication was betweene our Sauiour and his Diſciples, b…t the ordinance there mentioned is common to all▪ …et Phyſ…alogus ſit theſe variable anſwers, as hee miſcals them, doth tell vsus a tale of an H…rmit▪ which comming to a Farmers houſe, and blowing his fingers to warme them, and his …ottage to coole them, was ſ…nt packing by the Farmer▪ as a diſſ…mbling c…mpanion. But, to requite you tale, what if the like Hermit had come to ſome good mans houſe, and hauing on his face a faire ſhining viſarce with A. W. written vponupon it, ſhould vponupon occaſion hauehave his viſard ſhaken off, and vnderunder it ſhewe another face, ſigned with I. De. Might not the good man iuſtly abhorre this double fa…ed gueſt, …nd a…moniſh all honeſt companie to beware of him? I will pard…n you your ſport at faſt and pag. 107.looſe for a ſhilling, though I might iuſtly make it ſ…t …aſter vntounto you, then you would vnlooſe againe in haſte. Put where is the contrarietie, I pray you, in making th…ſe words to …ee spoken to the Diſciples, and yet not onelyonly to be vnderſtood of them? You would collect it after this manner, Becauſe that weakneſſe of faith, and the kind of … w…re the two in … wherefore the child was not deliuered. And that which is an impediment to anie, is alſo proper to the ſame partie, if we will beleeue your Metaphyſi…kes. For you muſt needs deriue your Aſſumption H…b 3. 1… & 4. 1. 2.f…m hence. As if the Iſ…aelites being ſhut …ut of the land of promiſe for their v…beleefe, this impediment ſhould bee ſo proper to them, that n…re but themſelues ſhould be excluded for the ſame: which abſurditie is of that nature, that if your ſticke of faſt and looſe were … good ſound cudgell, you deſerue to be well laboured about the ſhoulders with it▪ …ut what ſhould I purſue your ſeuerall abſurdities? To …ake after ſuch ſcatterers were to fill a cart, rather then ones lap. In briefe for your whole diſpute, to pr…ue theſe words only to belong to the Diſciples: I… incredulitie and …miſsion of Matt. 17.prayer and faſting were impediments onelyonly to the nine Diſciples, (for Peter, Iames and Iohn were not of this number) then they can be impediments to no body elſe. And ſo Peter, Iames & Iohn ſhould caſt out any kind of ſpirit notwithſtanding the like incredulity, and omiſsion of …aſting and prayer. Yea all other Chriſtians whatſoeuer ſhould alſo in like manner. For what ſhould hinder them, if they hauehave no impediment? And what impediment can they hauehave, theſe two being onelyonly proper to the nine Diſciples? See now how prouidently you tie theſe words to the Diſciples onelyonly, permitting larger power to all other Chriſtians then to them. The contradiction you here charge me with is lame. It is palpably falſe, that 1 pag. 49. of the Doctrine au…u…h, there are ſome kind of spirits, which the Apoſtles (with all their power) could not poſsibly expell, but by prayer and fasting. Of this very errour I do by ſundrie reaſons from pag. 44. of the Doctrine▪ vntounto page 48. confute Stapleton and Thyrcus, which notwithſtanding you charge vponupon me, & againe ſticke not to ſay, that Stapleton, Thyrcus, and my ſelfe agree herein, ſo ſhameleſſe are you. But ſpecially you make your ſelues merie with a cōtradiction, pag. 111. 112. I anſwere, The Diſciples their not expelling the diuell out of the Lunatike, when they were deſtitute of miraculous faith, letteth not but that by miraculous faith they could expell any diuel. Theſe I truſt may agree together, without cutting the throat one of another.
That which you talke of helping their weake miraculous faith by pa. 113, &c.faſting and prayer, is already anſwered. Further, I ſhewing that faſting and prayer were not required as helpes in this place to miraculous fa…th, ſay, that Miraculous faith is of that kind, which is giuen without means to certaine men: whereupon it muſt needs follow, that there being an Apiſtia, an vtter defect of miraculous faith in theſe Diſciples, it was not to be recouered by faſting and prayer. You anſwere, It was not 1. Cor. 12, 9.begotton without meanes, becauſe it was giuen by inspiration of God. By which you make the holy Spirit to bee a meanes: whereas a meanes is but an inſtrument: And the holye Ghoſt together with the other two perſons of holie Trinity is alwayes a principall efficient. Thus you confound heauen and earth together, & make nothing in the world to be done without means: neither any thing in the world to bee more then ordinary: for whatſoeuer is done by the ſame vſuall and neuer ceaſing meanes, muſt needs bee reputed ordinarie. There be few places in the fielde more repleniſhed in the ſpring with ſtincking nettles and weedes, then your whole booke with ſuch poyſon full Hemlockes as theſe. But with all we hauehave a Diſcourſe of an Habituall & Actuall miraculous faith: pag. 114.whereof the habitual is begotten by the Spirit and the word. Seeing therefore theſe cauſes cannot alwayes be effectleſſe, and that they be euer working in the Church till the end of the world, it cannot be auoided but that Miraculous faith ſhould be in the Church for euer: And the rather if we conſider, what by your ſaying miraculous faith is: which you define to be nothing els, but an vnd…uted perſwaſion, by which we firmly beleeue, that there is nothing impoſsible to God: But all the faithfull do vndoubtly beleeue this, and therefore we hauehave ſtill Miraculous faith remaining amongſt vsus, and ſhal hauehave ſo long as the Church ſoiornes on earth: yea the very diuels beleeue this and ſo hauing miraculous faith, by your leaden rule ſhall bee workers of true miracles▪ I adde, they which were endued with the miraculous faith, had beſides the perſwaſion of Gods omnipotencie, an vndoubted perſwaſion of the will of God, for the effecting of the wonderful matters, which beſides or contrarie to nature they attēpted for the good of the Church. Now for as much as the knowledge and aſſurance of the ſaid will of God is not to bee had from the word, therefore the written word is not the onelyonly ground▪worke of miraculous faith, neither doth it come by the hearing thereof, as you affirme. For Actuall faith, you will hauehave it a ſpeciall motion from the ſpirit of God, raiſed vp extraordinarily, whereby the action of faith ſhall not proceed from the Habit as from the next cauſe, as the action of iuſtice cometh from the habit of iuſtice, and ſo in all other qualities of that kind, but there ſhall be ſomething in Actuall faith extraordinarily more then was in the Habituall. If a man had your ſharpnes he might quickly go beyond Actius▪ Nauius, that cut the whetſtone in peeces with his raſor. For the increaſe of miraculous faith by means, it is but needles to ſtand vpō it, cōſidering we affirm an vtter defect therof at this time in the diſciples, not ſome couered ſparkes remaining in them, to be raiſed into flames by faſting and praier. For true miraculous faith how litle ſoeuer, is able with out theſe helps, to atchiue her deſined worke. But then you will ſay, yea in effect do ſay, that the Apoſtles did ſuperfluouſly ioine praier pag. 116.with it. I anſwer, no more ſuperfluouſly, then the Church doth ioyne Sacraments with the word. Faith of it ſelf is ſufficient, to apprehend Chriſt vntounto ſaluation, and this faith is begotten by the word: Yet Sacraments hauehave their neceſſary vſe, not to inable faith to that, which it could not with out them, but to confirme and ſtrengthen it to doe her worke more cherfully, and with fuller aſſurance. Praier is the general inſtrument to be vſed in all holy workes what ſoeuer: and therfore the Apoſtles had warrant for their praier, & were free from all will-worſhip therin. I omit here pag. 117. 118for breuitie fiue of your ſlanders, and two contradictions wherewith you charge me, my ſelfe being not author of any one of the contradictory propoſions.
I prouing that theſe wordes in S. Mathewe (this kind goeth not Matt. 17. 21out, &c. belong not peculiarly to the Diſciples, ſay, that if our Sauiour had rebuked them for not faſting & praying, they might hauehave excuſed pag. 119 120. 121.their want of time, you trifle exceedinglye about this: at laſt you affoord vsus this worthy anſwere, that conſidering our Sauiours ſtaying in the mount (which for all the circumſtances you can alleadge can not be long) they had time ynough to pray. Antiquum obtinct Crito, you muſt run your old byas, & impudently flap vsus in the mouth with time for prayer, whē the queſtion is of time for faſting and prayer. Againe, you wil hauehave theſe words, This kind goeth not forth but by faſting and prayer, to be no ſever all reaſon rendred by our Sauiour, why his Diſciples failed in their purpoſe: whereas we hauehave ſhewed, it is a diſtinct thing from Miraculous faith, and not neceſſarily ioyned with it: and therefore not to concurre in making one reaſon with the …ag. 122. …g. 123. 124ſame▪ Moreouer ſay I, …f the Apoſtles in each weaknes of this faith, muſt of neceſsity hauehave betaken themſelues to faſting and prayer, they ſhould hauehave bene a whole day about a miracles the exerciſe of faſting requiring this ſpace, which would hauehave bene great hinderance to their speedy travell ouer the whole earth. You anſwere, This is Iudaiſme. Belike alſo it is Iudaiſme for Chriſtians to pray▪ becauſe the Iewes did ſo. But vnderſtand, good Reader, that the practiſe only of ſuch cereremonies as the Lord appointed to be a difference betweene the Iewes, and other people, is Iudaiſme, not the exerciſe of ſuch duties, as be common to both. That which you doubt what ſhould become of the other part of the day, if the diuell ſhould be caſt forth before noone, beſeemeth men which acknowledge no other ſeruice of God, but for their owne turnes. Is there no duty of thankſgiuing? no requeſt for ſtrength to the party diſpoſſeſſed? no deſire that the eye-witneſſes might profit by it? you would hauehave Chriſtians ſerue God, as the dog his maiſter for a bone. The reſt is vnworthy to be repeated, & ſo was this, but that I would giuegive the Reader a taſte. But what ſay you, that wil not hauehave a faſt to continue for a day▪ to A Walker, alias …g. 5.Io. Deacon? who in a booke of his called the Footpath to faſting, ſaith▪ that in the day of our faſt, we muſt be exerciſed in hearing, applying, and praying for the rem…uing of God his iudgements, euen from morning to night? Do I (you falſe tongues) in pag. 48. and 49. of the Doctrine pag. 125.ſay, that the Apoſtles ſhould hauehave ſtirred vp their weake faith by faſting and prayer, when I ſpend thoſe whole pages to proue the contrary▪ O palpable ſlaunder, and extreame impudencie! Likewiſe you ſay, I affirme elſe where, The Apoſtles faith was ſo ſtrong as it needed no meanes to ſtirre vp the ſame. And I would tell you, you ſay vntruly, but that your skore is ſo full that now you be deſperate. Of theſe two baſtardly propoſitions, conceiued and brought forth by your ſelues, and not by me, you frame a Contradiction: ſaying therupon, that I will turne, …re I burne, yea with the turning of an hand, turne the cat in the pan: and then you tell my pupils, they may be peſtilent proud of ſuch a turne-about tutor. Here wee may beholde, as your honeſt dealing with me, ſo your eloquence and modeſtie.
Beſides, I auouching the Apoſtles ſtrong faith after Pentecoſt, able for miracles whatſoeuer, and therefore vnlikely the Lord ſhould appoint a peculiar courſe for them, for ſo ſhort a time as from his transfiguration till then: you collect from hence the weaknes of their faith till Penticoſt: which I graunt you, and more then that, namely, that their miraculous faith was vtterly extinct at this time▪ And therfore no vſe of faſting and prayer for the extraordinarie work, but onelyonly as it ſerued to the vſual maner of the Church in this caſe. But you wil proue the apoſtles miraculous faith might faile a…ter Pentecoſt, becauſe their faith failed ſometimes in doctrine and … That we may vnderſtand your meaning, what do y… … by Doctrine? what by iudgement? Doctrine vſuall▪ is publike teaching and inſtruction▪ Iudgment priuate thinking and opinion. Did the Apoſtles erre in publike teaching? You ſaye, The Apoſtles and bretheren which were in Iud…a, thought the word of God was not to be preached to the Gentils. Act. 11. 2.You ground this ou… of theſe wordes▪ And when Peter was aſc…nded to H…eruſalem, they of the circumciſion contended againſt him. VVho contended with him? The Apoſtles, ſay you, but without any warrant from the text. It ſeemeth S. Luke hauing mentioned the Apoſtles in the firſt verſe, doth of purpoſe in the ſecond vſe theſe generall termes, They of the circumciſion, to diſtinguiſh theſe contenders with Peter, frō the Apoſtles. It may be the Apoſtles did not yet …o clearly vnderſtand this miſtery, yet it is not likelie they were in this ca…e no more but equall to the weake brethren, whereby the… ſhould ioyne in contention with them. Grant we alſo an errour here, it was only in iudgement, not in doctrine. And as for Peters not going rightly to the truth of the Gospell, it was not error Gat. 2. 13. 14either in doctrine or iudgement, but a timorous diſsimulation for the time. Iohn his falling downe before an Angell, was errour through R…ue. 19. 10ſodaine paſsion, not proceeding from ſetled iudgement, much leſſe auouched in publike teaching. Conſidering therefore theſe places proue not that the Apoſtles erred in doctrine and iudgement, and that the Lord doth principall… promiſe that the Spirit of truth ſhould l…ad Ioh. 16. 13 & 14. 26. 1. Cor. 3. 10. Epheſ. 2. …0.them into all truth: and bring all things to their remembrance which Chriſt had told them, whereupon they be called Skilfull Maiſter-builders, and the Church is ſaid to be built vponupon the foundation of the prophets and apoſtles. It is admirable you dare ſo conſidently auouch ſuch an aſſertion, vponupon ſo little or rather no warrant▪ and of ſo dangerous conſequence. You childiſhly cauill at my ſpeech, where I ſay, Their faith did not faile them, after they receiued the holy Ghoſt in …ag. 127. &cThat f…neſſe: as if I had attributed ſuch a fulneſſe to thē, as is not incident to a creature: and yet I expreſly diſtinguiſh it by note of reſtraint Act. 7. 55. & 13. 9. Luc. 1. 41. Act. 2. 2. 4That fulneſſe, that is, ſuch a plentifull meaſure as I had ſpoken of before. Such an one, as was ſaid of Stephen, …hat hee was ful of the holy Ghoſt: and of Paul: and of Elizabeth, when ſhee brake forth into that heauenly ſalutation of the bleſſed virgin, that ſhe was filled with the holy ghoſt. The ſame is ſaid of Zacha…y when he prophecied, and of the Apoſtles, that they were filled▪ with the holy ghoſt. And all theſe in the Concret▪ but in the Abſtract without all limitation to hauehave the fulneſſe …f the Spirit, belongeth onelyonly to a diuine perſon, the Father▪ the Sonne, and the holy Ghoſt▪ So that whatſoeuer perſon hath the ſimple fulneſſe of the Spirit, the ſame is God, as well as hee who hath the fulneſſe of the Godhead. Of Chriſt his fulneſſe (to whom the Father hath not giuen his Spirit by meaſure) do all the elect receiue, not the fulnes it ſelfe, but grace for grace, that is, graces or gifts of the Spirit heaped vponupon graces: eueryevery one according to the meaſure of the gift of Chriſt, ſome euē vntil their cup runne ouer. All which diſcourſe when at laſt you pag. 133.conclude, that howſoeuer the Apoſtles were ſubiect to errour, yet they could not poſ…iblie erre ſ… long as they heard the voice of Chriſt▪ and but followed the onelyonly directions of the ſpirit of truth: And that they did neuer vniuerſally erre: Moreouer, that they did neuer …cline from the foundation it ſelfe: & laſtly, that they w…re recalled from their e…r…urs… what ſingular thing do you aſcribe to the Apoſtles, that is not common to all beleeuers? Are not the Apoſtles to be preferred aboue all other Miniſters of the Goſpell, and beleeuers ſince theire dayes? Yet you ſeeme to put them in the very ſame ra…ke▪ Nay, you ſay in the top of the ſame page, that there …e ſome F…ſt…noni…s of the Apoſtles, which onelyonly but ſlipped from humane infirmities, and that theſe (…ow glorious ſoeuer in ſhew) are not the teſtimony of Ieſus, & therfore not the ſpirit of proph…cie. you speake here very daungerouſly, that I ſay no worſe.
You argue the defect of the Apoſtles miraculous …aith, from their pag. 135. Act. 4. 29 30. & 9. 40 & … 8. 8praying in working miracles, which rather is an argument for the continuance of it. For if it had …in vtterly extin… it had not bene to …e obtained by prayer▪ but if you ſay Prayer declareth the …eaknes of it, and that you meane ſuch weakneſſe, as without prayer ha… not beene able to effect the worke, it is falſe … hath beene oft …emembred vntounto you▪ but if you take weakneſſe for ſome leſſe meaſure of Matt. 17.cheerefulneſſe, which had neede be ſtirred by inuocation of Gods holy name, I graunt you ſuch a weakneſſe, but this is too weake to ſtrengthen any whit your cauſe. you charge mee falſly in ſaying, I denie that the apoſtles faith might & did faile before they were filled with Doct. pag. 46, 48 Doct. 49 pag. 136the holy Spirit. I know not how oft I affirme this, which you ſay is the very point I denie▪ Neither do I ſay▪ it was but fortie dayes betweene Chriſt his transfigi…ation, and Pentecoſt. I do writtingly let paſſe manie of your lies▪ it is a trouble to repeate them. you ſee no inconuenience to approper theſe words, This kind goeth not forth but by faſting & prayer, to the Diſciples themſelues: whereas if faſting and prayer had beene neceſſarie as helpes to their weake faith, that could not ſtand which our Sauiour hath immediately before affirmed, that ſo much …aith as a graine of Muſtard ſeede ſhould be able to do the greateſt miracles. Howe this diſtinction of diuels is to be vnderſtoode, wee hauehave ſufficiently declared in the Doctrine. you make a wonderful Doct. p. 51▪partition, when you interpret This kind, only to diſtinguiſh diuets from other creatures. The nature of a partition is, that the thing which is parted ſhould be common to all the members. as in this place, creatures going out is the Generall agreeing to both the Specials, in this ſort. Of creatures that go out of man ſome are diuels, and they go not out but by faſting and prayer: ſome are of other kinde, and theſe of what nature ſoeuer goe out of a man without faſting and prayer Wha… ▪ is man now become a cage for all creatures▪ Indeed the old Philoſophers had woont to ſay, that Man is a little world: but …ou will giuegive vsus a ſenſible vnderſtanding o… it, if horſes, be ar… and lyons, fowles, and creeping things of all kind, may hauehave an habitation in him. You hauehave beene ſo carefull all this while to free man from poſſeſsion of diuels, that in the meane ſeaſon you hauehave made …im a fo…eſt to containe all ſauage beaſts in. I pray you what kind of creature doth lodge in your owne breaſtes? But you ſay▪ pag. 137.Th… kind cannot be referred to the diu…ls amongst themſelues, becauſe they be▪ all of one kind as angels be▪ and alſo men. Profoundly ſure▪ as if kind did onelyonly note eſſence, an… not ſometimes quality and condition▪ you brought vsus euen now an example of threwes, The beſt of this kind is ſh…miſh ynough wherby you ſaid, wom…n were ſeuered from men by the… fore or kind▪ Is difference of ſexe difference of Eſſen…d So … ſpeake of doceitfull men, This kind of men is not to bee truſted▪ of fl…tterers and ambitious perſons This kind of men ſpeak… all to pleaſe thoſe in authority▪ of ſuch as hauehave made ſhip wracke o… a good conſcience, This kind of men groweth worſe & worſe. Now tell me, you Anſwerers, whether Kind will carie no other ſenſe but that, wherewith you cauill as beſeemeth freſh Sophiſters. Againe, it is admirable, you could find no other ſimilitude to declare the diſtinction page missingag. 138.of diuels by, but onelyonly the whole ſtate of this kingdom of England, comparing our moſt gracious Soueraigne, Gods Lieutenant amongſt vsus (I tremble to ſpeake it) to the Prince of darkneſſe, and all the inferiour honourable orders of Dukes, Earles, Lords, Iudges, Iuſtices, Knights, Gentlemen, yomen, &c. to the lower ſort of diuels. Could any men forget themſelues ſo much, as that againſt all good maners, againſt honeſty, againſt Chriſtianitie, yea, againſt nature it ſelfe, which hath printed in the minds of ſubiects all loyall and reuerent reſpect towards their moſt worthy Soueraigne, and in the hearts of inferiours all dutifull regard of their honourable Superiours, that you ſhoulde vtter ſuch blaſphemie againſt Gods ſacred Miniſters, and ſo noble and ſo flouriſhing eſtate as this is? He that priuiledged this, deſerues hee ſhould priuiledge no more. You thought to lade your Exorciſt with the enuy of ſo odious a compariſon: but all wiſe men will ſee, your ſelues are the Exorciſt, and all the reſt of the perſons in your books, whom ye make to ſpeak what and how ye pleaſe: and therefore whatſoeuer they offende, they ought to be whipped on your backs. I take not vponupon me to define of the ſeuerall orders of diuels farther then the ſacred word of truth pag. 140. &cis my guide. You contrariwiſe, that you might oppoſe your ſelues againſt me, ſticke not to bend your forces againſt the verie Scriptures. For you will hauehave nothing now amongſt them, but a meere confuſion, and a ſtate without all order: notwithſtanding our Sauiour Matt. 12. 25 &c. & 25 41.teacheth, that the power of darkneſſe is a kingdome: that there is a Prince of this kingdom called Beelzebub, and inferiour degrees called his angels (which whether they be all of them equall, or no with out diſtinction or difference in any reſpect whatſoeuer, you ſhould hauehave conſidered from theſe words, He taketh vntounto him ſeuen other ſpirits worſe then himſelfe, & not vainly to hauehave trifled about the word Exuſia) that there is a kind of policie of concord maintained amōgſt them, whereby this kingdom is vpholden. Theſe things are plainly taught, and are ſuch as no Chriſtian may gainſay, yet you would ouerthrow all this, ſtriuing for ſuch a blended mingle amongſt them, as is vtterly void of any the leaſt diſtinction. But it is a true ſaying, Fooles whileſt they labour one euill to ſhun, into the contrarie preſently runne. VVhereas in theſe words, This kind goeth, not forth but by prayer & fasting, I hauehave obſerued foure thinges: That there are two kinds of diuels: That one is more difficultly expelled then the other: that the child was poſſeſſed with one of the worſer kind: that thence partly it was wherefore the Diſciples caſt him not forth: you returne, pag. 154.They which want arte to analyze the Scriptures, may here learne to bebutcher a text, with Rhetorike ill beſeeming vnmannerly clownes. But tell me, is there no difference between Analyzing, and making pag. 155collections from a text? Prate no more of the extraordinarie faith of the Diſciples, except you can make it good by ſound reaſon they were indued with ſuch kind of faith at that time. Our Sauiour faith there was an Apiſtia in them, a thorough defect, wherby only they failed in that extraordinarie courſe they attempted.pag. 157. 158.
But now you wil ſhew the impieties, abſurdities and dangers which follow of this doctrine. I …ſt, it is impietie to a…ouch any thing for truth that is not. I acknowledge it is a greate impiety: but this doctrine doth not ſo. Secondly, Lying wonders are the marks of Antichriſt. I anſwere, you ly falſly, when you make the caſting forth of Satan by payer and faſting to be a l ying wonder. Thirdly, it is impiety to affirme fasting and prayer (ex operato) may effect ſuch a worke. It is impietie indeed, but you may as truly charge me with this affirmation, as you might charge any▪ ſound hearted Chriſtian that knowes M▪ Deacon, with affirming▪ that he is an honeſt man. Fourthly, it is impiety to pr…phane prayer and faſting without warrant from the word. We graunt alſo this, but withall ioyne vntounto it, That it is no leſſe impietie to call that prophaning of prayer and faſting, which is warranted by the word, as in this caſe it is. …aſtly, it is impiety (ſay you) to make prayer and faſting which of God are apprinted to bee helpes vntounto ſaith, a ſole meanes without faith for expelling of diuels. I ſubſcribe vntounto it and wiſh with all my heart, that he which ſaith ſo▪ may receiue the reward of a deceiuer: but if ſuch cogitation was euer farre from my breaſt, that ſuch impudent ſlaunderers might be branded in their forehads with this marke: Falſe accuſers of their brethren. I doubt not but you hauehave read theſe words of the Diſcouerer▪ (who neuer ſpeaketh vntruly for mee, whatſouer hee doth againſt Diſeo. p…. 45.me) M. Darrell confeſſ…th the neceſsitie …f faith in the ordinarie means. Your abſurdities (for ſo they are indeed) with the daungers partly fooliſhly, & partly falſly imagined, what ſhould I vouchſafe to repeate them? I will leaue theſe and ſuch like to the Reader, able now by that which ha… beene ſaide, for all your maske to diſcerne you.
159,You vpbraide me with hiding my ſelfe for feare of perill. I hauehave learned by the commandement and example of Chriſt Ieſus himſelfe, his Apoſtles, and of the Martyrs in all ages, that I may, nay, ought to giuegive place to the rage of man, eſpecially not forſaking in the meane ſeaſon any duty that concernes me. Yet that you may know I am not cleane runne away, by that time you hauehave read my Suruey and this Reply, tell me whether you hauehave not met with ſome bodie to cope with in the field. You will not allow Chriſtians, if they …. 160perceiue not their firſt endeuours to preuaile, to betake themſelues to further humiliation. whereas this is the practiſe of the Saints, as to continue their ſupplications till the Lord hauehave graunted, ſo to increaſe their exerciſe, the more difficult they proue the Lord to be. Firſt, …am. 12. …, 17.Dauid beſought the Lord for his child, & as it may ſeeme without faſting: then not obtaining, he ioyned faſting and watching withall: thirdly, he continued the like till the ſeuenth day. Did hee in …. 161. &c,intend a ſeuen dayes fa…t in the beginning? Concerning the effi…acie of prayer and faſting, we hauehave the ſame Coleworts ſod againe. You talke, as if I made prayer and faſting for dispoſſeſsion, an vnwritten ordinance: whereas I onelyonly ſuppoſe, that if it were not expreſly ſet downe, yet for that it is to be collected out of the generall places of a. 22. 12.Scripture, as where the Lord doth ſummon vsus, in the day of our affliction vntounto weeping and mourning, to baldneſſe and girding with ſackcloth: and to call vponupon him in the time of our ad…erſitie, and ſuch like: and becauſe alſo by experience we proue it to be effectuall, this were ſufficient warrant to vsus for the ordinance of God in this behalfe. You might therefore hauehave ſpared your paines in proouing the ſufficiencie of the worde of God, till you mette with ſome Papiſt, in which number I tkanke the Lord▪ I am not.
…ag. 167For your demaunds, If dispoſſeſsion be now ordinarie, what be the things ordinary in it. To ſatisfie you (though you litle deſerue it) for the medicine, I anſwere it is faſting and prayer: the operation, is the mightie power and wil of God, apprehended inſtrumentally by our faith: the miniſteriall hand to apply this medicine, is the aſſembly of Chriſtians gathered for this purpoſe▪ The theorie or skill to directe this hand, is the knowledge that they bee warranted in ſo doing from the worde of God▪ the meanes to imprint this skill in thoſe phyſitions breaſts, are the▪ meanes of knowledge▪ hearing, reading, meditating,: the habit …f this skill is their faith, which is more confirmed by the often practiſe of the Church in all times. Nowe then, if you cannot ſee what is ordinary in this worke, bewayle your ordinarie blindēſſe which will not ſuffer you to behold the truth. That which followeth is no leſſe fooliſh then falſe, which you taike of faiths working ex opere operato: as alſo that faſting and prayer cure by way of pag. 168 Matt. 6.miracle: that faſting and prayer is no ſupernaturall maner of cure: & that if it be ſupernaturall, then it is extraordinarie▪ Is it poſsible for men to dote in this manner? But if the light that is in men bee darkneſſe, how great is their …?
To the teſtimonies of ancient & later writers alleaged by me, you anſwer firſt, that I wreſt open their mouths, and make them ſpeak what I pleaſe. It is true, they ſpeake what I pleaſe, becauſe in this matter I ſpeak nothing but what pleaſeth thê▪ but you inſinuat that I peruert them. If you could hauehave ſhewed one ſyllable this way, al the world ſhould hauehave heard of it. Beſides, you hauehave already teſtified in your former Diſcourſes, that they ſpake, as I report thē. Secōdly, you ſay, they speake nothing at all to my purpoſe in hand. My purpoſe in alleaging them was to ſhew, firſt, that men in theſe dayes may be diſpoſſeſſed of diuels. Secondly, that faſting & prayer hauehave bene vſed by the moſt learned and godly in the Church from time to time, ſince miracles ceaſed, for expelling of Satan out of the poſſeſſed. Nowe whether they ſpake to theſe purpoſes or no, becauſe your ſelues hauehave loſt your eyſight, let others that can iudge of colours ſay what they thinke. Your third anſwere is, that I hauehave not their owne examples or practſe, but only their bare reports concerning the practiſe of ſome others cōuerſing among them. This likewiſe is vntrue▪ Tertullian and Cyprian recken themſelues in the number of them which did expell diuels. And Chryſoſtome was preſent in the congregation, and preached two ſeueral dayes at leaſt, when publike prayers were made for expelling of Satan out of perſons poſſeſſed, brought to that ende into the Church at the commandement of the Deacon. And thereforè wee hauehave theſe three mens practiſe. But admit that none of them had made mention of their owne practiſe, might not their iudgment & coun…el… that …eruent prayers a…e to be vſed for the healing of the p…ſſ…ſſed ſu…ic…? ſpecially ſeeing diuers of them adde, that they hauehave knowne D…ct. …8ſome that hauehave beene healed by the prayers of the godly. Fourthly, ſay you, they giuegive their aduiſe for the ex…rciſe of prayer alone. And this is your fourth l…e, for ſome of them mention prayer & faſting. Thus much for reply to …our generall anſweres, let vsus nowe heare thoſe which be particula…. To Origen you anſwere, that …e inſinuateth …mply pag. 169.the ſuppoſed …fficacie of faſting and prayer, but putteth downe no practiſe of it as of a perpetuall ordinance. Marke how falſe lyers ſaulter in their ſpeech. Did Origen ſuppoſe ſuch an efficacie of faſting and prayer & yet not thinke it was Chriſts ordinance, and to bee vſed? Whence could it hauehave efficacie, but from Chriſt? Or to what purpoſe was efficacie, if to no vſe? He therefore that acknowledgeth the lawfull efficacie of faſting and prayer, doth alſo acknowledge, that there is an ordinance of faſting & prayer to ſuch an end. Tertullian you ſay, Speakes of manie pretended deliuerances from Satan, but ſhew…th not the maner how they were fried from them. What? doth Tertullian in his Apologie of Chriſtianitie againſt the Gentils, to the whole ſtate of Rome, alleage certaine counterfeit deliuerances from Satan, to countenance Chriſtian religion with? Doth he vſe ſuch policie in writing to the Gouernour Scapula, to gaine credite to the profeſſion of the Goſpell? Surely you are either not well in your wits▪ or which is worſe, you hauehave for filthy ſucres ſake conſpired to make but meere fables of the great works of God. But he ſheweth not, ſay you, the maner how they were deli…ered▪ Do you ſticke at this matter? you will not hauehave it by miracle in any ſort: …d therefore, ſay wee, by faſting and prayer. Nay but, will you ſay, if it were at all, it was by Miracle, and Miracles were ceaſed before his dayes. Therefore ſpeake plainely, and tell Tertullian to his face that he lyes, that hee deluded the world with his pretended deliuerances. This is your meaning: and this anſwer would be ſhort. How Cyprian is to be vnderſtoode, we ſhall know (ſay you) by Iames Pammelius, who telleth v…, That the Fxorciſts office was not then in an…e vſe of the church, becauſe that office being ioyned with the gift of Miracles, did continue but for a time. I do not alleage Cyprian for the office of Exorciſts, but for the caſting forth of diuels in thoſe dayes, which he teſtifieth plainly, ſaying, And the diuels by torments of w…rds are caſt out of▪bod es poſſeſſed. To this adde, if you will Pammelius his teſtimonie, that miracles were then ceaſed, and ſo we conclude, That there were caſting forth of diuels in Cyprians time, & yet not miraculous. But yet for Iames Pammelius let me tell you thus much▪ wheras you alleage his words for the ceaſing of Ex…rciſts before that time, and alſo that a little after he ſhould ſay, That the crafts and iugling ſleights of counterfeit Exorciſts …yp. Epiſt, 55 & 76▪ edit. …ammel. Antuerp. …n ad. b. Petr… …elleri 1589& coniuring prieſts, they are long ſince apparantly …uident: yea euen to the very eyes of the blind: I maruelled greatly to heare theſe words of Iames Pammelius: I knew he affirmes the cleane contrary, maintaining ſtrongly by teſtimony of Antiquitie that office of Exorciſing both of Spirits poſſeſsing▪ and in Baptiſme. I turned my Cybrian, but I could find no ſuch words of his. And therefore either you hauehave met with an edition later then the laſt, or els you are as notable in belying mens writinges as the moſt ſhamleſſe Papiſt of them all. To the reſt, as Chryſoſtome, Peter Marty…, Kemnitius, Phil. Melancthon, Beza, Vogellius, Danaeu…, Chaſſanius, all of them moſt plainly teſtifying diſpoſſeſſion, and that by meanes of faſting and prayer, you anſwere not one word, but for the lenght of their footinges, referre vsus to that which hath beene ſpoken of the former. Indeed theſe treade in the ſteps of the former, and of all the godly …earned that went before them & therfore by them we may geſſe their footings▪ and ſo likewiſe by your three wi…les anſwers to the three former we may eaſily geſſe what would be your anſwere to theſe, namely all the abſurd ſhiftes you could deuiſe to elude their teſtimonies, as not hauing in purpoſe to find out the truth, or to yeild to it beeing found, but by hook and by crook to maintaine your owne giddy fancies, whatſoeuer eyther Scripture, or any other ſhall ſaye againſt it. What doe I therfore diſputing with ſuch companions, which make not truth their end, but ſome other peruerſe reſpect, I know not well, what? Surely Chriſtian Reader, that which I do is for thy good, to laye open vntounto thee their vnconſcionable iuglings, leaſt by any coloured pretences thou ſhouldſt be beguiled by them Did not I well to bind thē to their good behauior by a publike Inſtrument in their Diſcourſes▪ Thou ſeeſt they hauehave not one worde of truth to ſay againſt the practiſe of the Church of God from the Apoſtles time till now. But you are weary of theſe authenticall witneſſes and therefore betake your ſelues againe to your wōted reaſonings, where you may hauehave more ſcope of words, and more hope to darken the truth.
pag. 170.If, ſay you, prayer and faſting bee an eſtabl…ſhed ordinance, then it ſhould be alwayes effectuall. I anſwere, you ſeldome bring an If but there is a lye in the end of it. The prophet complayneth, How 2. Sam. 12. 18long Lord? wilt thou hide thy face for euer? Becauſe Dauid obtained not by his ſute his Sonnes life, he might by this rule hauehave bid prayer and faſting adue. Infinite are the inſtances: it is meruaile you could meet with none of them, to cauſe you to hold in ſo groſſe an vntruth. But I crie you mercy, you meane effectuall in regard of pag, 171, 172, 173.vttermoſt iſſue, not of the preſent time. Now then frame your reaſon. The ordinance of god is alwayes effectuall, prayer & faſting is not allwayes effectuall, & ſo not god his ordinance in this caſe. I anſwere. if you take …ffectual for the laſt iſſue and ſuch help as is expedient, you ſay vntruly of prayer and faſting: If you meane Effectuall for …enſible, imagined and preſent helpe, then is it as falſe, you ſay of gods ordinance. And this i… you mark it, will ſu…fice for all you prattle pa. 174. 175about this matter. So likewiſe, how Dispoſſeſsion now is no miracle enough hath beene ſpoken, except you can bring vsus ſomething of more weight, then hitherto …ou hauehave done. Further ob…erue that here they ſpare not to denie (though in as couert tearmes as they can) the witneſſe of Tertullian, Cyprian, Chryſoſtome, …nd of al the reſt before alleaged, or that can be. Moreouer, it this will not ſerue, for compendiouſneſſe ſake, and more ſecuritie of their cauſe, they deny the concluſion. I he argument is, If diſpoſſeſsion by prayer and faſting pag. 176.be miraculou…, then Tertullian, Cyprian, Chyſoſtome, and others wrought miracles, when they expelled diuels after this ſort: but this is falſe: and therefore the firſt. To this you anſwere… Secondly, if it be true that here tofore or nowe spirits bee expelled by ſole prayer and …aſting, th…n is the worke a mi…acle: which is the contrarie a…firmation to the concluſion. pag. 177When you ta…ke of ſole prayer and faſting, you hauehave a ſecret meaning of your owne of ſole prayer without faith. Concerning which I tell you again, that if M. Walker & you hauehave ſuch a kind of prayer and ſuch a kind of faith, as vſually are ſeparated one from another, you may do well to diſpute of ſuch matters betweene your ſelues, for my part I allowe no ſuch prayer, neither doth the Church of God.
You argue, that dispoſſeſsion is not by hiſtoricall or temporary faith, pag. 179.becauſe God hath appointed it to miracul…us faith: which thing if it had beene proued in the beginning, we had done long …ince. Further, you ſee not wherein i…ſti…ying faith ſhould be …ar b…tter then T…mporarie, if this doth …aſt out diuels, as if to caſt out diuels out of the bo…ies of men▪ were all in all Beſides, if hiſtoricall …a…th be ſuff…c…ent, diuels might caſt out diuels. But what if they will not? you a…e neuer a whit the nearer. Such trumperie ſha l hauehave no other anſwere▪ …or anſwere to your fourth reaſon I ſay, a reprobate may app…l end the mercies of God the Creator▪ but not of God the Redeemer, And ſuch apprehenſi…n for the e…ecting of Satan …ay … ffice.
You ſlaunder me▪ when …ou ſay, that in diſp…ſſ…ſſion of Sommers pag. 182we purpoſely prayed to teach the b…olders, that the w…rk …as …ff…cted by the onelyonly …ower of him t… whome w… put vp ou… pray…r. …u… what is pag. 183. 184. 185it to ſay you ſclander me? You make no more account to ſc…ander me, then to fillip me. Againe I doe not ſay, that parties b…w… …hed hauehave no wa…rant from the Scripture t… faſt & pray…, (as is apparan… in the place by you quoted, where I counſell them to this hol… exerciſe) but only, that ther is not ſuch expreſſe mention in the word for the curing o… the…, as for parties poſſeſſed. And therefore all that is an idle diſpute which you purpoſe for diuers pages together in this matter▪ …ou would …a… hauehave me a companion in this wicked pag. 186a…ertion, which your ſelues maintain as is apparant afterwards. But note (good reade…) fo… an egreg…ous blaſphemy, that theſe Anſwerers make t…e Lor… guiltie of the horrible ſins cōmitted by the wicked in ſ…king to the …ueil for help in their miſeries. For how doe they proue it to be an abſur…itie to cond…mn… p…oples going to the diuel for helpe? Surely thus, … …t be a ſinne to ſ…eke help of the diuel, we ſhall make the Lord ginit… of this ſin w…th u… whom it can…ot be done. Thou …eeſt what blaſphemie this propoſition cōtaineth▪ for it plainly affor deth that which before I …ay▪ And the Concluſion, to wit, it is no …nr e to …eke …elpe of the diuel, is a concluſion of monſtrous impiet…e. …o where they would proue, There is no warrant from the worae for prayer and …aſting to be vſed in behalfe of parties bewitched, pag. 188.there argument is of this …orte. …f there be no wa…rant …rom the word tha… ſole prayer & …aſting hauehave any power of themſelues ex opere …perato, to r…o …e …upernaturall …udgem…ts of God, then there is no wa…rant for parties b… witch…d to vſe faſting and prayer as h…l…efull in this …aſe▪ But the firſt, ſay they, is true, & therfore the ſec…nd. …ut what do you ſticke at parties bewitched? You ſhould hauehave inferred generally, there is no warrant nor vſe o… faſting and prayer at al for any thing ex opere o…erato. O men ſtr…ken with the blindnes of Sodo…e …ich before the d…re, ſeek the …e, and cannot …ind it. Is it your fooliſhnes, th…t you cannot tell what you auouch? Or your ſhamleſnes, that you …aſ…e not t…oug… you… names ſhould be deſe…uedly odious to all? Or is it, t…at you do ſo far …e…piſe all the learned of this land, that you thinke there …s not one man able to di…cearne ſuch prod gious falſhood …uch …retched perſons would rat…er be c…nfuted with a three cor…ed w…ip, the… by the writinges, or wordes of any. An… if that will not ſerue, it were …eete ſuch order mig…t be taken with you t…at the Church of God ſuſtaine no damge by you.
pag. 19…Whether I hauehave ſo fondly trauerſed this queſtion of …oſſ ſſ…o… as you ſa…, I lea… it to the g…dly learned to determine, to whoſe cen…ure I willingl… ſubmit my ſel…e bot… in this & in al other m… writings But as for your iudgments I paſſe …ot. Firſt make it appea…e▪ you hauehave eyes in your owne heads▪ before …ou take vponupon you to tel… what is ſtraight, or croked in …e then …anctifie …our mouths b… c…nfeſſing, your lyes, your ſclaunders▪ your blaſphemies, before you giuegive ſentence of any my doings. In the mean ſeaſon, if you will needs be bar king, I will find ſuch a bone for you to gnaw on, as ſhall bee fit for your chaps,
…. 191, 192 …93.Concerning the counſell I gaue for fasting and prayer, it was grounded from hence: that in all iudgements (of which kind poſſeſſion is) we are called to humiliation, for which I cite in the margine an induction of diuers examples. To which you anſwere firſt, that with out particular knowledge of the iudgement, prayers could not be made in faith to remoue it: which is one o… thoſe Axioms that neuer fails you, ſuch an one as Ahabs prophets were inſpired with, whē they counſel led him to warre againſt Ramoth. Shall not the poore countrey ſicke man pray to God for ſome comfort in his diſtreſſe, becauſe he doth not know particularly the nature of his diſeaſe? Secondly, that the quoted Scriptures onelyonly teſtifie the peoples …umiliation by pray…r and faſting, ſo oft as any ſtrange iudgement was inflicted, but proue not eſſentiall p…ſſeſsions and diſpoſſ…ſsions by thoſe means. yet they proue the counſell I gaue was warrantable, and this I content my ſelfe with. It is enough if my poore premiſes afforde mee one naturall and orderly concluſion at one time. EueryEvery mans Cow can not bring forth colts▪ as yours do.
ag. 194. 95, 196.To conclude, you tell vsus your great confidence in the cauſe, which no man needs to doubt of, if he conſider your former arrogant bold neſſe: nor much maruell at as ſtrange, if he call to minde your vncredible blindneſſe. But if your learning and conſc…e…ce were more, your confidence would be a great deale leſſe. Then you in…erre of the premiſes, That if there be no poſſeſsion, nor diſpoſſeſsion nowe by faſting and prayer, how greatly they hauehave erred that hauehave auouched it, and how much they are to be blamed which cannot endure it ſhould be impugned: But contrariwiſe ſay I, if all theſe things be true, which you denie, as hath beene prooued by ſtronger reaſon, then you poſsibly withſtand, what doe …ou deſerue which hauehave troubled the Church with newe and ſingular opinions in theſe points, and in broaching them, hauehave offered to the world to choke them withall other verie many groſſe, fantaſticall and impious abſurdities? and yet you dare intitle your fooleries, The infallible truth, and ſuch, as Glory & praiſe is to be giuen to toe Lord for theſe his lately reuealed counſels by you concerning theſe intricate queſtions. O intolerable proud ignorance! HaueHave you by late reuelation cleared theſe intricate queſtions? Indeed your aſſertions be late▪ for they were neuer heard of in the Church before: but they were neuer reuealed vntounto you by the Spirit of truth, but by that lying ſpirit, whoſe image doth liuely appeare almoſt in eueryevery argument you handle. And yet that my ſelfe be not onelyonly iudge, let any man of vnderſtanding waigh with equal balance that litle that hath beene replyed, & compare it with yours, & then giuegive ſentence: whether any ſince the time of our peace by our gratious Queene, profeſſing the goſpell, hath publiſhed any writing of diuinitie that doth come neare theſe your treatiſes in number of vnſound potions, in miſconſtructions & wreſtings of Scriptures, in abſured collections, in impudent reiecting the authoritie of the ancient, in ſhameleſſe pretending the names of good authours againſt their owne meanings, in childiſh ſtumbling in the firſt rudiments of Arts, in moſt frequent lying and ſlaundering, and which is greateſt of all, in dangerous and ſcandalous aſſertions mixed with ſome notorious blaſphemies: and then it may be you ſhall carie the bell of al that hauehave written in our times. Great cauſe there is we ſhould all make bonefires for the publiſhing of your bookes, or rather of your publiſhed bookes: but eſpecially M. Biſhop, who got the priuiledge ad imprimendum ſolum, I beleeue he beſhrewes your fingers for it.