The Sinful Shameful Lying and Ridiculous Discourse of Samuel Harshnet, Treatise · Book 1 · Chapter 3
OF CHAP. 3.
How M. Darrells frendes hauehave ſett out the pretended diſpoſſeſſing of W. So.
The Diſc. telleth vsus of certaine counnterfeyts, as of a maid of Cheſter of one Mildred the baſe daughfter of Alice Norrington: of a Dvtch man with ſome others. Ergo concludeth he, Somers is a counterfeyt, & that ſuperexcellent wonder which M. Darrels fauourers, euen thoſe of the ouerworne Conſiſtoryan faction magnifye ſomuch is a counterfeyt and lewde practiſe.
Conſideringe this very obiection is anſwered, and the abſurditie thereof ſhewed in the narration, this man who taketh vponupon him to conrute that ſaide treatiſe, ſhoulde rather hauehave ſhewed the weaknes of the narrators anſwer to this ſayd obiection if ſo he could: then hauehave taken vp that ſtale obiection agayne. The narrator hath here tofore anſwered this argument thus: this followeth not, for we may with as good reaſon ſaye many hauehave not counterfeited, Narratiou in the anſwer to the 1. obiection.therfore Somers did not counterfeit 2 there could neuer any man counterfeit ſuch thinges as Som in truth hath done. Hereunto I add, that Somers counterfeitinge followeth not here upon, except theſe thinges withall be true, firſt that this maide of Cheſter Mildred the Dutchman ct. counterfeited. Secondly that Som. & they carried themſelues alyke: for if Sommers. were handled after a different manner from them, what letteth, that he might be no counterfeite. although they had counterfeyted? Before then this argumente be of any force, the Diſc. muſt ſhewe: that thoſe Englyſh and Dutch folkes …e mentioneth, had a variable ſwellinge runninge all alonge their bodyes. and ſo of the reſt of the rare accidentes whereof concerninge Som. we hauehave hearde: neither of which he hath perfourmed: And then alſo it followeth only probably. Againe, if this be a good reaſon, then is this alſo▪ I. N. publyſhed a booke ſtuffed full of vntruthes. wherevpon it was called a legend of lyes: therfore. S. H. the publyſher of this booke, hath ſo done.
Moreouer it is certaine that all thoſe the Diſc. here ſetteth down for counterfeits, did not counterfeit, yea I thinke none of them the mayd of Kent excepted. For the mayd of Cheſter, it is well knowen and to many, that ſhee counterfeited not. And howe doth he proue the Duchman, (concerninge whoſe poſſeſſion and diſpoſſeſſion there is a booke printed,) to hauehave diſſembled? forſooth Samuell Harſnet ſayth ſo a ſubſtantiall proofe, and worthy argument ſure. He himſelfe confeſſeth that the Maior of maydſtone (a towne in Kent) Nicaſius Vanderſch…ure (the miniſter of the duch church there (and Iohn Stikelbowe, with dyuers others did ſubſcyibe to that pamphelet as he pleaſeth to cal the boke aforeſaide. The queſtion and doubt nowe is whether we ſhall beleue this ſingle man, and ſuch alſo as we ſhal heare, or theſe other which I knowe not how many more. After this manner he proueth the reſt he nameth to hauehave counterfeited. Although theſe had counterfeited it maketh nothing againſt vsus, as hath bene ſhewed: yet who that is wiſe will beleue this mans report (for other proofe hauehave we none,) that they counterfeited, ſeeing he doth intimate no leſſe by M. Throckmortons children, whoſe vexation by Satan was ſo manifeſt and notorius? for marke what is ſayde pag. 93. moreouer he had hearde and read (meaninge Som who ſuerly ſtudied the arte of counterfeitinge) ſome parte of a very ridiculus booke concerning one M. Throgmortons children (ſuppoſed to hauehave bene bewitched by a woman of Warboyſe (wherby he ſayth that he learned ſome pointe, and was not ignorant as …ut occaſion ſerued, to aſcribe what he liſt to witches. And this againe the Diſc telleth vsus in the perſon of Somers.
It is twiſe affirmed that Som. learned ſome points from M. Throgmortons children, they therefore it is to be thought did counterfeit, for from whome are counterfeyt trickes to be learned but from counter feyts, and ſuch as hauehave that ſkill in thoſe worthy feyts, as they can act them themſelues? And in particuler it is ſaid, that from them hee learned to aſcribe what hee liſt to witches: pag. 9. 7.viz. as they had donne before him. Agayne t…e Diſ: denyeth that they were bewitched: for if they were but ſuppoſed to be bewitched, then were they not bewitched indee…e. And yet it is manifeſt by many of their ſpeaches and actions (mentioned in the printed booke concerning the witches of Warboyſ ſpecially by their crying out vponupon Allice Samuell the witch, they ſeemed ſo to be. And therfore if they were not bewitched & vexed by the Deuill they counterfeited. In a worde looke into the printed booke and you ſhall fynde, that if they were not vexed with vncleane ſpirits, they were moſt notorious counterfeyts, and ſuch as before them neuer were, but ſaith the Diſc. they were not bewitched or tormented with euill ſpirits: confederating with ſome wicked man or woman there abouts ergo conclude I counterfeyts, and ſo indeede the Diſcouerer meaneth: yet he thought it beſt and moſt for his ſafety becauſ they were the children of an Eſquier, not to ſay ſo in playne tearmes: as he doth likewiſe by M. Starchyes children in Lancaſhire. He nowe that would fayne hauehave the world deeme theſe for counterfeyts, (though for ſhame he dare not ſay ſo) conſidering whoſe children they were, the nomber 5. the tyme they were afflicted, aboue 3. yeares, their age being ſome of them about 9. or 10. yeares ould▪ the ſundry impoſſible thinges to be counterfeyted donne in appearance by them, as theire ſupernaturall ſwelling in their bodyes, &c. their ſupernaturall ſtrength, knowledge, whereby it came to paſſe (to let other things goe) that one of them (M. Ioane by name) foretould that there ſhould be twelue of them which ſhould be bewitched in that houſe in one ſort or other and named them all, the printed book… …ol. ….being all weomen kind, and ſeruants in the houſe, herſelf and her ſiſters being fyue of the number, all which proued afterwards very true, for they had all their ſeuerall greifs, and moſt… of them aff…licted in the ſame ſort and manner as theſe fiue ſiſters were: & furthermore that thoſe ſeruants that came in their places, for the moſt parte of them were aff…licted in the like ſort as the other, for the ſpace of two years togeather: and that beſides two of them M. Ioane and M. Iane Throgmor …on were at the Aſſiſes at Huntington ſeene of the Iudge and Iuſtices in diuers …its, and M. Iane in her fit ſet in the court: both of them before ſuch witneſſes greuouſly tormented, moſt pittifully to behould: And laſtly Alice Samuell (together with her huſband and daughter) was not only found guilty by the Iury of bewitching them, but beſides did her ſelfe at her execution confeſſe that ſhee had bewitched them,… printed bok. and ſente her ſpirit to torment them: Conſidering (I ſay) theſe thinges, and that theſe (with other) proofes, preſumptions, circumſtances, and reaſons, prouing their bewitching and vexation by the Diuell wereat largedeli-puered before the Iudge, and therefore vponupon oath: and after publiſhed to the world, and knowne (as it appeareth) to the Diſcouerer, what a ſhamefull thinge is it, and intollerable iniury donne to thoſe gentlewomen, and their parents yea to the Iurors and Iuſtices that condemned the witches, to affirme (in effect) and proclayme to all men, that they counterfeyted? And me thinketh one ſhould not deale thus, and that aduiſedly, except he thought that there were no witches, nor diuels, or at leaſt that the diuels hauehave no power to torment men in their bodyes. But he that will not hauehave theſe 5, to be bewitched, but counterfeyts, (from whoſe counterfeyting Som… learned ſome of his tricks, and ſo not all of them from me) let him tell me in good earneſt in his reply (if he be not aſhamed to make any reply) what he thinketh of the Iaylor his man of Huntington, for ſeeing he was in all reſpects handled as the fiue children were, it is to be thought that if they were not bewitched nor vexed by the diuell, but did counterfeit, it was ſo likewiſe with him. That he was handled alike to them, and therfore their condition alike, appeareth by the euidence of the ſayd Iaylor (vponupon his oath) gaue, which is ſet downe in the booke entituled, The Arraignment and execution of the witches of Warboyſe: in theſ wordes followinge. Then the Iaylor of Huntington gaue this euidence: that a man of his finding mother Samuell very vnruly whiles ſhe was priſoner, at a time chayned her to a bed-poaſt: wherefore not long after his man fel ſicke and in all reſpects was handled as the forenamed children were, with heauing vp and downe of his body, ſhaking his armes, leggs and head, hauing more ſtrength in him in his fitts, then any two men had, crying out of mother Samuell, ſaying that ſhe did bewitch him: and thus remayning in this extraordinary courſe of ſicknes, about 5. or 6. dayes after dyed. If it fall out ſo that he ſay that this man counterfeyted too, and learned ſo to do of M. Throgmortons children (as Som. did in part) I thinke all that heare of it will laugh at his folly, And heere we may obſerue how the Diſ. to prooue Som. a counterfeyt, beareth vsus in hand, firſt, that Tho. Darling, Kath. Wright, M. Couper, and the 7. in Lancaſhire were counterfeyts, Secondly the maid of Cheſter, Mildred &c. In a worde, that all vexed indeede by the diuell, on this ſide and beyond the ſeas, among vsus and the papiſts were counterfeyts, ergo (ſaith he) Somers counterſeyted. And this is, his mayne and generall argument. The antecedent or firſt parte whereof I deny, and doe deſire the Biſhop and S. H. to proue that, and then I will giuegive them the concluſion, and all they contend for.
For-aſmuch as M.pag, 19. Darrells frends doe ſo oft alleadge Tertullian. S Cypryan. S. Ambroſe. S. Auſten. S. Chriſoſtome, with Proſper, &c. it is not amiſſe to heare what Kemnitius (writing againſt the counſell of Trent) ſaith of this point, Exorciſtas ct. They hauehave tranſformed their Exorciſts in to magicall Inchanters. In times paſt it was a peculiar guift to caſt out diuells out of mens bodyes by the voyce of man, and power of god. And the ſame guift continued in the church in the times of S Cypryan, S. Ambroſe S. Auguſtine, S. Chriſoſtome, and of Proſper: Obſeſſi in templum adducebantur, et ſaepe communibus eccleſiae precibus liberabantur: The poſeſſed were brought into the church, and were often-times deliuered by the common-prayers of the church: poſtea illud demum &c. But afterwards (ſaith he) that guift ceaſed. If M. Darrell hauehave againe obteyned it, let him make much of it.
The Diſ▪ perceyuing that beſides the holy ſcriptures, the auncent fathers are not only for poſſeſſion in theſe dayes, I meane ſynce myracles ceaſed, but alſo for diſpoſſeſſion by earneſt prayer: thought good to make ſhewe of this, that the teſtimonyes we alleadge out of the auntient writers are peruerted, & make not for vsus at all: & why? Kemnitius ſaith ſo.
I anſwere, Peter Marter as greate a diuine as he, (to let others goe) affirmeth the contrary, as before we hauehave hearde. where is now this argumente, yf I ſhoulde ſaye no more? but for our better ſatiſfaction, let vsus conſider what Keminitius ſayth,math. 10, 1, 8. mark. 3, 15. Luk. 9. 1. and how trulye. The ſame guifte ſayth he (meaning that power ouer vncleane ſpirits, giuen by Chriſts to his Apoſtles) contiued in the church in the times of Tertullian Ciprian Ambroſe. Auſt…n, ct. Howe can this be ſo, ſeinge to caſt out diuels as the Apoſtles did &c. by a worde is a miracle. & that miracles were ceaſed be fore there tymes? we may remember that when and to whom this peculiar guift to caſt diuels out of the bodyes of men was giuen, then and to the ſame perſons was there withall giuen, to heale eueryevery ſickneſſe and eueryevery diſeaſe. for aſmuch then as Tertullian Ciprian, Ambroſ Auguſtine, Chriſoſtom, Proſper, had not the guyft to heale ſyckneſſes and diſeaſes, to giuegive ſight to the blyndect. It can not therfore be that theſe fathers had this Apoſtolicall guift, as Kemnitius affirmeth, & the Diſ. woulde hauehave it▪ yea the thinge it ſelfe ſheweth the contrary, and Kemnitius (& the Diſ. with him) ouerthroweth him ſelfe in his owne wordes▪ The poſſeſſed (ſaith he) were brought into the church in the times of thoſe fathers, and were often times deliuered by the common prayers of the churche. e…go not by my ….Did the Apoſtles caſt out Satan thus? or rather hauinge authoritie ouer the diuils, commauned them in the name of Ieſus to go forth, and immediatly they departed? yf theſe fathers had the ſame guifte wyth the Apoſtles, as is here affirmed, why did they not vſe it in the ſame manner, and with like ſucceſſe that they did. I meane, the preſent and ſpedy dellyuerance of the partie poſſeſſed? but caſt Sathan out after another māner, with more longer delay, greater help… then euer the Apoſtles did or had? For howe…oeuer there is not mention made in the ſcriptnres of all thoſe the Apoſtles diſpoſ…e…ſed by farr, yet by infallible reaſons taken out of them, it is cleare, that the Apoſtls did not deliuer any that were poſſeſt by the common prayers of the churche as it is here ſaid of theſe auncient fathers, They had a more readie and eaſie way to driue out the vncleane ſpirit of what kinde ſo euer it was.Luk. 9. 1. actes, 16. 18, ct. by a worde, yea ſome times leſſe ſufficed. which as it did more ſet forth their authoritie and power ouer wicked ſpirits, ſo it commended alſo their doctrine and miniſtrie,actes. 19. 12. It is very likly alſo that vponupon the ſhadowe▪ of …. peter, deuilles went out, actes …. 15. 16. aboue this e…e…ing of ſatan by praier, eſpetially beinge aſſiſted therin by others. It can not therefore be that the Apoſtles did at any time diſpoſſeſſe ſathan by the publique praiers of the church as is here affirmed, and that truly, of thoſe fathers: Nowe what doth theſe thinges argue but this, that howeſoeuer the ſame expulſiō of Diuels out of mens bodyes continued in the churche, and was in the times of Tertullian Ciprian Ambroſe Chriſoſtom &c. yet the Apoſtolicall power ouer Diuels, was before tho…e times gone, and no man then guifted with that power: If in theſe deliuerances by the publick praiers of the church whereof Kemnitius ſpeaketh …ertullian Ciprian ct. had any pecular guift as it is here ſayde: I demaund of the Diſ. (for Kemnitius is dead, and he is of his iudgment otherwiſ he would not hauehave alleadged him) firſt, what this guift was, for the the ſame that the Apoſtles had (notwithſtanding they both ſay it) it is cleare it was not. 2. why rather one of theſe ſhould hauehave a guift in caſting out diuels, then the people or any of them that ioyned with them in ſuch expulſyon, ſeeing the meanes whereby Sathan was caſt out was prayer, and that the people preſent, prayed & intreted god in this behalfe, as well as theſe their leaders, and their prayers were not in vayne, but as well preuailed with god, as the ſupplycations & interceſſions of their miniſters: for what though percaſe the prayers of theſe holye men were more feruent, and by conſequent auayled more with god, then the requeſts made by any priuate chriſtian: ſhall we therfore aſcribe ſuch expulſiō of the diuell to one perticular man, and therewithall I knowe not what ſpeciall guift therein? what is this in effecte but to make the praiers of the reſt of gods people preſent… as ſpeaches ſpoken in the ayere, and beatinge it, and ſuch as god rega… deth not?. 3. ſeinge by the Diſ. owne ſecret confeſſion, men were poſſeſſed in Tertullian Ciprian, &ct. there dayes, why not now? 4: Seeinge in the dayes of theſe auncient fathers, men were diſpoſſeſſed and Satan caſt ovt by the prayers of the faithfull. why maye not men be diſpoſſeſſed nowe vponupon the vſinge of the ſame meanes? were the prayers of gods people then mightie with god to the expellinge of Sath an and are they of no force nowe? or rather is it impoſſible they ſhoulde preuayle ſo nowe, and in theſe our dayes, as the Diſ. becauſe Kemnitius. ſaith ſo, will needes hauehave it? In a worde, what letteth it that men may not nowe in this our time be diſpoſſeſſed by prayer, or praer and faſtinge as well as when Tertullian Ciprian, Ambroſe Chriſoſtome, Auguſtine and Proſper liued. 2 ſeinge that in their dayes miracles were ceaſed, and an end put to them as well as nowe: and that theſe fathers had no more a guifte to worke miracles, then M. More & my ſelfe, whome God hath pleaſed (amonge others) to vſe in the lyke work. Theſe queſtions I deſire the Diſc. to anſwer, and I will expecte it at his handes if euer he replie: excepte he be contente in plaine & expreſſe termes to yelde to this truthe. And thus we ſee that rather then the Diſc, will hauehave nothinge to ſaie againſt diſpoſſeſſion in theſe daies, he will bring vsus yet the error at leaſt of one man: & that he ſaith ſo it is inoughe (forſooth,) becauſe he was otherwiſe greatly learned But howe proueth the Diſc, Iſa, 8. 20,this out of the holy ſcriptures? which ſeinge he doth not, nor I truſt can not, it is becauſe there is no light in him, yet wyſely muſt we obſerue here what Kemnitius error is, leaſt we ſhoulde doe iniurye euen to the deade. Herein he ſaid then very truly that the guift is ceaſed: and very fitly alſo againſt the Papiſt, (againſt whome he writ) whoſe exorciſts chalenge ſuch a guift, where vp on as did the Apoſtles, ſo doe they ad…vre or charge the ſpirits to goe out, only herein he ſpake as a man and miſtooke the matter: firſt in that he tooke this guift to continue in the church vntill and in the aforeſaid fathers times. 2 in that he thought (as it ſeemeth) that there is no caſtinge out of Diuels now, becaus that guift is ceaſed for beſides that extrordinarie and miraculus kinde of eiection of ſathan, which beinge temporarie, continued only in the churche whiles other miracles laſted, and together with them had an end, which was longe before ſome of theſe fathers dayes: There is an other ordinarie and perpetuall. viz. by prayer, or praier and faſtinge. By this meanes and after this manner the aboue named fathers in ther times caſt out diuels and not by any peculyar and miraculus guift beſtowed vponupon them, continuinge in the church vntill theire dayes. And thus are or may be euil ſpirits caſt forth at this daye. and whereas he ſcornefully addeth If M Darrell hauehave againe obtained it, meaning that peculiar guift to caſt out Diuels, which the Apoſtles had: let him make much of it: I in good earneſt anſwere, that as I hauehave no ſuch guift nor yet any ſpetiall guift herein aboue the leaſt of my brethren or priuate chriſtian: ſo neither euer did I from the firſt time that I dealt in the diſpoſſeſſinge of any arrogat any peculiar guift to my ſelfe. but hauehave from time to time caſt the ſame as farr from me as I could both with my tongue and pen. 2 by the carriage of my ſelfe in this action I hauehave ſhewed no leſſe. and herein may all men be confirmed as by my whole treatiſe before concerninge diſpoſſeſſion: ſo by that is here aforeſaide: Greatly then are they to blame, which charge me with challenging I knowe not what guift in caſting out Deuils: