The Sinful Shameful Lying and Ridiculous Discourse of Samuel Harshnet, Treatise · Book 2 · Chapter 7
OF CHAP. 7.
How So. about the 14. of Ianuary fell again to the acting of certayn fitt…, wherein he continued at times, till about the 24. of Febauary, & how M. Dar. pretended that he was poſſeſſed.
Diſcouerr.
M. pag …48.Dar. ſpent about 4. or 5. weekes (next going before the 14. of Ianuary) in preaching, and reuiling thoſe that helde So. for a counterfeyt.
Darrell.
Had I carryed my ſelfe in the pulpitt and worke of the miniſtery, a… the Diſc. beareth the world in hand, I had bene more fytt and worthy to hauehave ſitt at the plow tayle, and guided it, then in the chair of Chriſt Ieſus, and to hauehave bene a guide to his people. I publiſhed the worke of god, preſently after the diſpoſſeſſion of Somers & then …nd (as in duty I ought) make mention openly of So. and at other times I deny that eue… I mentioned him, ſaue that about a quarter of a yeare after his diſpoſſeſſion, and after he ſayd he counterfeyted, I …a…e againſt that …urſ…d confeſſion of his, and againſt them that would …aue him to be a counterfeyt. And this I did twiſe, once vppon the …ordes day to my owne people, & an other time not long after to them and others come out of the coaſts thereab …uts met togither at a faſt At this latter time alſo I remember, I vſed a few wor les conco…niuge his re…oſſ…ſſion And whereas the Diſc. ſaith in the chapter b…fore that I prea…hed at Nott. about that time, viz. from about the 7. …f … to the 14.pag 145. of Ianuary 6. or 7. ſ…rmons, v…pon the 43. 44. 4…. … …pon the 12. of …ath…w, con…erning ſathans returne to re…n…ter he … for they …ere preached in Nouember, two of them … of his monethmonth, and ſo on forwardes …n t…e Lordes dayes vntill I had finiſhed that …cripture. He bringeth mee in depo…ing this, but (as …ull o…ten) he hath corrupted my depoſityon t…e … o… …me being o… his owne inſerting. Beeſides when I pr…ached theſe …ermons more then 6. of the 7. ſermons were of ſpir…ua… po…e…ion. and that in both theſe I ſpake as the truth is, the inhabitants of Nott. can witneſſe.
The Diſc.Pag 145. …aith further that with this argument of diuels I ſo troubled my audito…y, that they grew very weary of a, and ſome blamed me for … to my …ace.
Truly it is very vnlikely, ſeing whiles I was preachinge of this ſcripture, they generally made choyce of me for their teacher. It … indeede that ſome two or three of the chief frendes to counter…ei …ing, naturall men, not fauoring of the ſpirit, ſhewed ſome diſlike to my preaching, and adui…ed me to preach of louelove and charity, ſayinge t…at they were euer in charity before I came there: but this was about a quarter of a yeare after the…e 7. ſermons, wherin I had preached the …aw (that …o they might be drawne to hunger and thirſt after the goſpell, and made fitt to receaue it) which was not ſweete and pleaſynge vntounto them and therevppon they kicked with the heele againſt me pre…uning to inſtruct their teacher, and to direct their guide (like to the ſchoſier, that ſhould take vppon him to teach his ſchoolemaiſter) which is no new nor ſtrange thing.
Diſcouerer.
My father in law (ſaith So.) receaued at two collections made by M. pag 148.Dar. meanes the ſo…e of twenty nobles, or thereabouts, in reſpect of his trouble and charge, when I was in my pretended fits.
Darrell.
VVhat a ſhameleſſe boy is this, ſeeing the contrary is notoryouſly knowne to the inhabitants of Nottingham. I hauehave ſhewed before that at the firſt collection made at his diſpoſſeſſion, his father in law had neuer a penny, and at the ſecond but part thereof, as I geſſe about 20. s. or 4. nobles, whereof part was to apparrell Somers And theſe collections were not by my meanes, otherwiſe then by ſpakling to the people at the diſſoluing of the congregation to be mindfull of the poore, if ſo I did. Neyther doe I doubt but that the Diſcou. knoweth this to be very falſe, yea few better, & yet behold he publiſheth it for truth to the world. For who can thinke but that he hath examyned the boy his father in law thereabouts: firſt in hope to hauehave it confirmed by his depoſition, if any ſuch thing happely had bene: 2. though it ſhould proue otherwiſe, …et hoping either by threats or by flattering ſpeaches to draw him therevnto: for if Rob. Cooper the bo…s father … lawe hauehave depoſed as the Diſc. affirmeth, he hath ſundrye times in other things depoſed as falſly as So. himſelfe hath heerein. Beeſides it is very likely that the Diſc. hath had ſome ſpeach hereof, eyther with the Maior, or M. Freeman, or M. William Gregory, from whome he might learne the certayntye heerein. For the Maior giuegive So father in law that which he had of the collection, and if it were 20 nobles, from him he receaued it, who can witneſſe that I neuer ſpake word to him concerning the ſame ſo that were that true which is falſ and that So. father in lawe had 20. nobles, yet it made not againſt me. Seeing now we heare nothinge of this 20. nobles from none of theſe but only from Somers, not a depoſition among the multitude of depoſitions confirminge this, we may be ſure that it is not onlye falſe, but iuſtly ſuſpeſt the Diſc. himſelfe to know the falſhood of it.
Diſcouerer.
It is to be obſerued:pag. 150. how ſome of M. Dar. chief frends hauehave left him after a ſort in two of the chiefeſt poynts of this whole action. One of them hauing giuen his opinion, that So. did not diſſemble thoſe fitts which he acted before the Commiſſioners, deputed from the Lord Archbiſhop of Yorke: but that it was the diuell in him, that played thoſe prankes in his body, could (it ſeemeth) be content to acknowledg, that he was poſſeſſed: but a… the time of his examynation, he would not affirme that the ſaid So. had bene at any time diſpoſſeſſed, although (ſaith he) I hauehave heard by depoſitions and other reports, that might induce me very probably to thinke that he was diſpoſſeſſed. The other being a very raſh and headſtronge yonge man, one M. Brinſley a miniſter: he at the time of his examination doubteth aſmuch of Som repoſſeſſion as the former did of his diſpoſſeſſion. I am fully perſwaded (ſaith he) that William So. was poſſeſſed with an euill ſpirit, and that he was diſpoſſeſſed: but concerning his repoſſeſſion I am not therein ſo fully perſwaded: although I hauehave many reaſons to induce me ſo to thinke.
Darrell.
At the time of his examination (meaning M. Iohn Browne one of the 12. Commiſſioners, a very reuerend and learned man) he woulde not affirme, that is, vponupon his oath (for the booke was preſently called for ſo ſoone as any appeared before the B. of London) that So. was diſpoſſeſſd. Did M. Browne leaue me, or yet the cauſe and worke of God which he regardeth a little more then me becauſe he would not ſwear that So. was diſpoſſeſſed. Truly it had bene very ſtrange if he ſhoulde hauehave ſo depoſed. One woulde thinke that he hath ſhewed himſelfe a frend to the cauſe, whatſoeuer he is to me, in ſaying that he did not diſſemble. 2. in affirminge that he was poſſeſſed, and that it was the diuell in him that played thoſe prancks in his body, as the Diſc termeth them. 3 that he did think that he was diſ…oſſ…ſſed, or to this effect. And for M. Brinſley a preacher of the goſpell, it appeareth by his depoſition, that he hath not left me nor yet the ca…. For he hath depoſed that he is fully perſwaded that So. was poſſ…ſſed. 2. that he is fully perſwaded he was diſpoſſeſſ…d. 3. that though he be not ſo fully perſwaded of his repoſſeſſion, yet he doth think ſo, meaning of the time preſent, becauſe for any thing he knew, ſathan after his repoſſeſſing of So. might percaſe be departed, Surely the Diſc. was not wiſe in producing thoſe depoſitions which eueryevery childe may ſee maketh not for him, but againſt him. And as vnwiſe was he to tell vsus that M Ireton his credit wrought ſom… inconvemence, through his facillity in beleuing thoſe things which were tould him: albeit his ſpeaches ſtill did rely vponupon this ſuppoſition, that if thoſe thing… which he heard were true, then thus and thus. For M. Ireton is known as to be of ſinguler learning, ſo of great wiſdome, and therefore (as it is ſaid of ſvch in the prouerbes) will conſider before he beleue as the things reported, ſo the credit of the reporter,prou. 14. 15. with other circumſtaunces and none of thoſe fooliſh ones which will beleue eueryevery thing 2.prou. 14. 15. M. Ireton was not only tould and heard of the ſtrange and fearefull operations of ſathan, in and vppon the body of Somers, but was alſo an eye witneſſe thereof, the daye of the commiſſion, he beinge one of the Commiſſioners, ſo that this ſilly euaſion of the Diſc. will not ſerue his turn. And hereby, as partly alſo in that M. Ireton being by the B. of London depoſed, concerning So. counterfeyting, poſſeſſion, diſpoſſeſſion, & repoſſeſſion, as well as the two former, (for he came not (ſure) to London, dwelling an hundred myles of for nothinge, neither bein…e come was he kept by the Biſhop ſundry dayes, depoſed, and often examyned, about nothinge, but in all likelihood the very ſame that M. Browne & M. Brinſley were,) & that of the ſaid depoſitions or anſwers of his to the ſame articles, we heare nothing in this volume of depoſitions, it is a very eaſy thing for men to conie…ture, what M. Ireton thinketh of Som. For had there bene but a lyne for the Diſc. purpoſe, all the world ſhould hauehave heard of it. The ſame may be ſayd by M. Euington a great ſcholler likewiſe & Commiſſioner, who togither with M. Browne and M. Brinſley was depoſed and examyned: of whoſe anſwers alſo and what he an eye witneſſe hath ſaid to So. counterfeiting or not, his poſſeſſion, diſpoſſeſſion, and repoſſeſſion we heare not a worde. The ſecret teſtimony of theſe 4. ſo reuerent deuines, and open alſo by theire ſpeaches from time to time, the wiſe and diſcreetr will regarde more then all the depoſitions the Diſcouerer to the contrary produceth.
Diſcou.
VponUpon M. pag. 151 or rather as the Diſco. ſaithDar. report & preaching that So. was repoſſ…ſſed, there was then greater reſort vntounto him then before. M. Dar. ſtill perſwa…ing eueryevery on that came (as (a) So. ſaith) that he the ſaid So. was repoſſ…ſſed: & that he remayned in all his ſits vtterly ſenceieſſe.
Darrell.
This is a manifeſt vntruth, for the next day after I firſt ſaide he was rep…eded, an… …efore I preached …o, I wen… to Aſhby, wher… my … remayned, and before I returned (being the …ater day …o… lo…ing) …e was had to S. Ioanes, and ſaid he councerte, ted, whether al…o I neither did no… might repayre vntounto him, one only time excepted when the Maior was preſent. And after the Diſcouery of ſathan before the 12. Commiſioners, I was …it… him only the next morninge with diuers miniſters at Edmund Garlands houſe, departing preſently home to Aſhby, from whoſe houſe he was departed, & … the dog turned to his vomyt, I meane his former confe…ſion of counterfeyting, which he had diſclaymed for a ſeaſon, before I returned to Nott. and both theſe I can dyrectly proue. But now doth the Diſc. proou… t…at be affirmeth? why thus So. ſaith it: and then the Reader may be ſu…e it is a lye.
Diſcouerer.
It might gr…atly be maruayled what eſtimation & credit M. D ar. got by thos new ſorgery of So. pretended repoſſeſſ…on.pag … Howbeit many of the wiſer ſ…rt, that wer… not poſſ…ſſed, with the giddy humoure of nouel…yes (couered forſooth with zeale & ſighings) did laugh this to ſcorne, as they did the reſt.
Darrell.
The wiſer ſort the Diſc. calleth thoſe which did laugh to ſcorne the worke of god. Of ſuch ſcorners the world was neuer without ſome when a far greater worke then this we treate of, and more wonderfull was wrought, and that ymediatly by the Lorde himſelfe, whereof we reade in the 2.p…lm… …1. of the Acts, it is ſaid ſome mocked. There is a generation and euer will be, that ſitteth in the ſeate of the ſcornfull. But who are thoſe wiſ…men he ſpeaketh of? forſooth M. Walton Arch-deacon of Darbyſhire, and M. Sales officiall: both nonreſydents, and the latter a man of no learning, and as l…ttle wiſdome and gouernment: He woulde neuer elſe (as I hauehave credibly hearde) hauehave bene the ryngleader in the ſetting vp of a may-pole the laſt ſommer, with pypinge, and dancing, and that vppon the Lordes day. Out of the miniſtery are of theſe wiſe men, M. Peter Clarke Maior then of Nott. M. Freman and the other Nott. Commiſſioners. For beeſides theſe there were ſ…arſlye any (ſome papiſts only excepte…) which were knowne to wag the tongue againſt the worke of god, the multitude not only acknowleding it but reioycinge in it, and magnifyinge the name of god. And in the miniſtery none were knowne to be for counterfeyting, & a…ainſt the poſſeſſion and diſpoſſeſſion of Somers but the two former: vponupon occa…yon that M. Walton did riſe vp and that openly againſt the manifeſt worke of god, after one publique meeting about Som. there was an other at the ſame time agreed vponupon. VVhen the appoynted day was come, there were mett togither many miniſters and learned men, all which were for poſſeſſio, & no mā heard to ſpeake a word for counterfeyting, this arch deacon and officiall excepted. Now all theſ the Diſc. accounteth to be men poſſ…ſſed though not with diuells, yett with the giddy humour of noueltyes. VVell my brethren, it is farr better to be one of the fooliſh of this world, and for that folly to be laughed at and ſcorned, then of the wiſe, & princes of this world, & for the ſame to be laughed at by him that dwelleth in heauen, and of the lord to be had in deriſyon. 1 cor. 1 2…. 1 cor. 2. 6. pſa. 2. 4.But I deſire to know of the Diſc. (who can ſo well diſcern of ſpirits) with what ſpirit M. Walton was poſſeſſed, when beefore the Commiſſioners after all this contention, he renounced counterfeyting, and confeſſed it to be the finger of god, as both M. Euington & M. Iohn Strelley with others can witneſſe: and whether at that time he alſo were not poſſeſſed with the giddy humour of noueltyes, couered with zeale and ſighings.
Diſcou.
So. grew weary of this his ſaid relapſe, after he had continued therein about ſixe weekes,pag 15… & ſaid to Iohn Cooper that he ſhould be quyet if he might get out of M. Darrell fingers, and be at S. Ioanes. And againe in the next leafe: Cooper ſignified to ſome of the Aldermen, what So. had ſaid vntounto him touching his deſire that he might remayne with him, that ſo at the l…ngth he might be in quyet.
Darrell.
In theſe wordes the Diſc. telleth vsus how So. by the meanes of Iohn Cooper, got himſelfe from his father in lawes houſe to S. Ioanes. The reaſon mouiug him there-vntounto was, that being weary of counterfeyting through is long continuance therein, viz. for 6. weekes togither, he could not tell how to giuegive ouer his diſſembling, becauſe of me. To helpe himſelfe therefore in this ſtraight, he bethought hī of this courſe we heare of. For anſwer herevnto: firſt the Diſc. doth not proue that So. was the cauſe of his going to S. Ioanes, no not by So. depoſition, but onlye ſaith ſo him ſelfe. 2. By the depoſition of Iohn Cooper page 177. the contrary doth appeare, as we ſhall preſently heare. 3. we may hereby coniecture how falſe this is, in that S. Ioanes is a houſe in Nott. whether vagrant and ydle perſons are ſent and kept ver… ſtraight to worke, beinge ſeuerely corrected if they fayle therein. Now who can thinke that So. who had runn away, firſt from M. Grayes, and after twiſe from Tho. Porter, was a yong fydler & ſinging boy, had alſo playd the counterfeit boy as the Diſc. ſaith, firſt at M. Brackenburyes, then at Nott. ſhould offer voluntarily his neck to the y…ake, (I meane of toy…eſome labour) and his back to the rod of correction. And wherefore ſhoul… … this? …ecauſe (forſooth) otherwiſe he coulde not be q…y…t. & …tt himſelfe …ut of my f…ngers, but muſt neades will he …ntinue …is c…unt…rfeyting, whereof ala… he gr…w w…ary. An …ſt riduculous …, all … …ell conſydered, which I leaue to t…e … him of. Yea but the Diſc. is of an other mynde: for marke what he telleth vsus, and that very ſolemnly in an other place.
If any ſaith be do… ſurmiſe theſe practiſ…s to be improbable, as beinge much ſubiect to danger,pag 7. in that the ſaid parties that are ſo …unningly drawn on in thoſe courſes, may vponupon many occaſions detect them: they muſt know that theſe fellowes are well enough furniſhed in that behalfe. For firſt among…ſt the Papiſtes, it were ſufficient to bringe a ſuſpition of …ereſye, that ſhould but doubt that one w…re not p…ſſ…ſſ…d, if their preiſts affirmed the contrary. And we ſee amongſt our ſelues, how hardly it is ind…red, that … pret…nded Exorciſts are called into queſtion, but be it that the worſt ſhould fall out: yet they hauehave ſuch rules, as if you will allow th…m, they are ſafe enough. For if any doe once fall into their handes, or yealde th…mſ…lues vntounto their practiſes, they can neuer be ridd from them by any meanes, ſo lo…g as they are pleaſed to worke vponupon them.
Conſidering theſe wordes of the Diſc. and that he ſaith that c…unterfeytes can neuer be rid by any meanes from their teachers ſo long… a… they are pleaſed to worke v…on them: it is no maruaile though Som. we…e glad to get himſelfe euen to S. Ioaues (the worſt place for his caſe of a thouſand) that ſo he might … himſelfe of me: but rather a maruell that he could ſo berid of me, …eeing the Diſc. ſaith that ſuch ſchollers can neuer be rid of then maiſ…rs, no not by any meanes. If …i is be true S. H. how came it to paſſe that So. rid himſelfe out of my …andes on…e before wh…n he was weary of counterfeyting, as now he is ſai…e to be? So. (quoth the Diſc.) beginning to be werie of counterfeyting, for ought that M. Dar. could doe, altogither refuſed to continue his diſſembling courſ any longer: and ſo made no ſhew of any of his pranks for the ſpace of S. weekes. And agayne: So. growing weary of his diſ…mulation, contrary to Dar relis perſwaſions gaue ouer all his tricks & practiſes. And this he pr…th ſubſtantially by So. teſtimony Hereof (ſaith …e So. in this ſ…rt. About the beginning of December, pag 144. pag 11….I did grow very weary of all my former practiſes, and there vponupon did wholly leaue them, contrary to M. Dar. good liking who end…u…red to perſwad me ſtill to continue … could not preuayl… with me ſo farr. …uſ. 1.Here by the way we … is cō trary to himſelfe, And this is the 10. … …inced by his owne Diſcouery. But I w…uld … (I ſay) … Diſc. why So, could not as well gett himſelf… is latter tin cout … without the conueying of himſelfe to S, Ioanes, as well as before. Others will thinke though the Diſc. be of an other minde, that were it ſo that I had taught S…. to counterfeyt, as he will hauehave it, and he had but in ſecret tould me, that being weary of counterfeyting, he wolde counterfeyt no more, and rather then ſo he would diſcouer all, I woulde hauehave bene willing enough to hauehave rid my ſelfe of him, & if nedes I muſt buſy my ſelfe in this worthy art, …aue …ather ſought out a newe ſcholler, then hauehave trouble… my ſ…lfe with …ne ſo lazy, ſo way war…e, wauering, and p…ruerſe, wherein alſo was ſuch da…ger. For how … euer amongſt the papiſts there is no danger to the pr…ſt tea…t ge one to counterfeyt, though the counterfeyt bewray all, ſo long as the prieſt affirmes the contrary, if we may beleeue the I…ſcouerer: yet I truſt he will not ſay the ſame of the miniſters of Chriſt Ieſus amonge vsus, and yet he doth ſay ſomthing bending that way. Moreouer, if S. m. ſaide thus to Cooper and went by his owne pro…urement to this ſaid …nd to S. Ioanes: why when he was come thither di… Cooper …reat…n to whip him, if he would not leaue his …ricks, as Cooper …imſelfe con…eſſe… vppon his oath to t…e 12. Commiſſioners? but more for the c…nuincing of this followeth forthwith. And where the Diſc. pretendeth that So. grew weary of his relapſe meaning counterfeyting to be repoſſeſ…e…, becauſe he had continu… th…r… about ſixe weeke… … is therein greatly deceaued, for it was but two wee…es. So. Le…an to be repo…eſſed at or about the time of his yn priſ…n…ent, as appeareth by the beginninge of t…is chapter page 49. but that was …ot about the 14. of … as the Diſc. ſaith in the argument of this c…apter and So. alſo a little after, …ut t…e 14. of …ruary as I ca… pr…e by many witneſſe. & the 24. of I … …e went to S. I…an…s, as is …, where …ee was pr…ntly quyet and confeſſed his diſſi…ulati…n. By t…is that hath here ſaid we may partly ſee, that So. remoued not …imſelfe for t…e cauſe heere alledged, to S. Ioanes, but they in…eed cau…ed …is r…m…uall wh…me Sathan vſed as his inſtr…ents to get from t…e boy that …urſed confeſſion of counterfeyting which ſoone after he was there …ee made, the meanes firſt being vſed, which ſerued there vntounto: viz. promiſes and threats, as …eereafter will appear. And thoſe were our Nottingham Commiſſioners, who cauſed him to be carried thither greatly againſt the boyes and his parents will, vnderunder coullour to fynde out ſome counterfeytinge, where it was as manifeſt as the daye-light at noon, that there was no poſſibillity of co…nterfeytinge.
The end of the ſecond Book.