The Sinful Shameful Lying and Ridiculous Discourse of Samuel Harshnet, Treatise · Book 4
THE FOVRTH BOOKE
The impoſſibilitie of Som. counterfei…ing beinge manifeſt enough by the laſt chapter, in the eyes of any vnpartiall and indifferent iudge, were ther nothing els ſaid, nor to be ſaid, then theiris allready ſaid. I thinke it ſhallbe wiſdome to vſe few words more concerninge the ſame. Beſides, I am afrayd the reader is w…rye in turninge over ſuch patched and ridiculous ſtuffe as this, when my ſelfe am not a litle greiued to ſee my time (which ought to be more pretious to me thē the gold of ophir) thus vainly and idlie conſumed, in turnninge and rakinge vp ſuch filthy and vnſaurie dunge, and were it not that I am perſwa…ed that the Lord hath called me heerevnto, both for the defence of mine owne innocency, and ſpeciallye the ſetting forth of that wonderfull worke of his, which wretched & vngodly men doe ſeeke by all meanes to deface, I wou…d in that regard hauehave buryed all in ſilence longe agoe. For theſe cauſes (moſt chriſtian reader) albeit I purpoſe (by thy patience & gods aſſiſtance) to make the caſe more cleare and playne vntounto thee in that which remaineth to be anſwered of the obiections & ſurmiſſes of the Diſcouerer: yet will I theirin be as brefe as poſſible I can, and as the vnreaſonablenes of the aduerſarie wil giuegive me leaue: the rather in that whatſoeuer he coineth and breatheth out againſt the cauſe rather then me heereafter, cometh out of the very ſame forge and ſhope with the former, wherof I am content to make thy ſelfe Iudge in the pervell.
OF CHAP. I.
Diſcouerer.
How M. Dar. laboured from time to time, to make thoſe thinges that So. did, & were but very toyes, to be thought both ſtrang & extraordinary.
Darrell.
VVhether the thinges depoſed to be done by Som. (done indede by the Diuell) were very toyes and nothing ſtrange and extraordinary in them: and further whether the things done by So. were ſuch as he did or could doe of himſelfe. and ſo argue a counterfeitinge, or whether the did paſſe his reach, ſkill, and power and ſo argue a ſupernaturall power, namly the power of the diuell within him, let the chriſtian reader himſelfe Iudge by my anſwere to the laſt chapter.
OF CHAP. 2.
Diſcouerer
How M. Dar. would not ſuffer as nere as he could any to deale with So.pag 225. in his fiets, to try whether he were ſenſeleſſe or diſſembled.
Darrell.
The ground of this chapter is this aſſertion fathered vppon me: vz. that Som. or whoſoeuer is poſſeſſed is ſenſeleſſe in all theire fites: wherevnto I hauehave ſufficiently anſwered in my anſwere to the 3. chapter of the 2. booke.
OF CHAP 3.
How M. Dar. indeuoured to excuſe So. when he was taken ſhort, and did ſuch toyes, as did argue him ſufficiently to be a counterfeit.
Diſcouerer.
It is obiected that his foaming came from a peece of blacke lead he had in his mouth.pag …93. I put (ſaith Somers) a peece of blacke lead into my mouth, that therby I might foame in more abundant manner.
Darrell.
It is true that one a time he had a litle blacke lead in his mouth, anſ. 1.but (as I verily take it) he did not then foame, as partly appeareth by Edmond Garlands depoſition, (following) who was then preſent. But be it that he did. his foaming came not, nor was becauſe of the ſaid blacke lead: for then another puting blacke lead into his mouth, ſhall their by be made able to foame alſo which I thinke non of vnderſtanding will affirme: and triall therof may ſoone be made: 3 we ſpeake of a …ming in the time of his firſt poſſeſſion, now foaming, and then foaming, ſpecially in great abundance the day of his diſpoſſeſſion: and this blacke lead from whence his foaming ſhould come, he had onelyonly once in his mouth, when he was at Garlands houſe, as is plaine by the depoſitions concerning the ſame, which was almoſt 20. weekes after the foaming wee ſpeake off. Now although blacke lead may peradventure hauehave ſuch an odd myſticall qualitie as is pretended, yet it could not (ſure) cauſe him to foame, ſo long and ſo many weekes before he had it. For theiris no body that depoſeh to any blacke lead: then and if he had had any we ſhould no doubt hauehave heard of it: nay So. himſelfe depoſeth no ſuch thinge: but by this depoſition we may rather coniecture, that if the diuell cauſed not his foaming, but himſelfe, then it came by rolling a ſtone or ſoape in his mouth, for ſo ſaith he I taught him to doe, that he might the better foame, But how doth the Diſcouerer proue that Somers foaming came of blacke lead? beſides Somers teſtimonie, by the depoſitions of two witneſſes. In one fitte I ſaw William Somers (ſaith Edmond Garland) froath at the movth very much, ſo as the foame roaped downe into his necke: pag 23…and at on time I found a peece of blacke lead in his mouth. He doth not ſay, and at the ſame time, vz. that he foamed, I found a peece et: but, and at one time I found et: meaninge, another time. So that by this depoſition it ſhould ſeeme, that Somers foamed not when the blacke lead was in his mouth. From hence then we can no more conclude that So. foaming came from this peece of blacke lead in his mouth, then from the morſels of bread, and gobbetes of fleſhe, which he likewiſe hath had in his mouth. But George Richardſon depoſeth more fully:pag. 235. In a fitt he foamed (ſaith he) excedingly, and I hereing akind of grating of ſome what betwixt his teeth, tould Garland the boyes keeper: whervpon Garland taking him by the heaire of the head, and I by his mouth, we ſhooke out of his mouth a pecce of blacke lead.
Darrell.
I will not ſtand heare to ſhew the falſhod of mans depoſition, but onelyonly I aſke, what and if So. inſtead of the black lead, had in his mouth a ſtone, or pine? had the ſame cauſed his foaming both at that time, & lo…ge before? For I doubt not but that either of theſe hath as we… that vertue and workinge quallitie in it as blacke lead hath: I am tru…e aſhamed to vſe ſo many wordes about that which deſerueth rather to be laughed at, then anſwered: but the folly of theſe who beleeiuinge this hauehave in good earneſt obiected it againſt me, as a matter of …oment, hath thus farr conſtrained me.
OF CHAP. 4.
Diſcouerer
How contrary to M: Darr:pag. 235. aſſertion, Somer, had his ſenſes and vnderſtanding in his fitts.
Darrell:
In my anſwere to the 8 chap: of my 2 booke, I hauehave ſhewed, that howſoeuer Sathan doth (no doubt) ordinarilie depriue thoſe he poſſeſſeth in their ſites, of their internall and externall ſenſes, yet not all wayes, but can and doth by his ſlyghts ſo order the matter, as that the poſſeſſed hauehave many times their ſenſes & vnderſtanding in as good meaſure as thoſe that are not poſſeſſed, a thinge that I hauehave allwayes held, and neuer ſence I came to any iudgment affirmed the contrarie. Vnleſſe therfore the Diſc. had proued that So: in all his fits had his per fecte ſences and vnderſtanding, (which he neither doth nor by any poſſibilitie can doe) he ſaith nothing at all againſt my aſſertion, but fighteth with his owne ſhadow, & confuteth a forgerie of his owne, which he faſlye chargeth vponupon me.
OF CHAP. 5:
Diſcouerer:
Of the motions and knockings which were heard and ſene about Somers in his fitts,pag 238. that they were done and made by himſelfe, and were not as M: Darr. hath reported, extraordinarie or ſupernaturall.
Darrell
This is anſwered before in my anſweare to the 4 chap: of the ſecond booke: and may in a word be anſweared againe that all that is their and here obiected is falſe, abſurde, and ridiculous, as hath allreadye bene ſhewed.
OF CHAP. 6.
How Somers caſting himſelfe into the fire, was voluntary, and no extraordinary matter, as M. Darrell hath pretended.
Diſcouerer
Becauſe the words of caſting into the fire (quoth So.) doth ſeme to import much:pag 142. Firſt I ſay, that the fires in my Miſtris houſe, and then afterward, in my father in laws, were but very ſmale, made of ſlat coales, and ſo compaſſed at the ends and foreparte with barrs of iron, that except I ſhould hauehave thruſt my ſelfe betwixt the ſayd barres, and the wall, or had thruſt my fingers betwixt the barrs, I could not in any wiſe hauehave caſt my ſelfe into the fire. But I confeſſe that M. Dar. hauing told me out of S. Marke, and like wiſe hauing ſtraightlie warned ſuch as keept me in my ſuppoſed fitts, that they ſhould be very carfull to looke vntounto me: I did caſt my ſelfe now & then into the Chimney, or vponupon the yrons or grates.
Darrell.
Concerning this poynt Ioane Pie hath depoſed thus On Allhalow even at noone,narration…d. or their abouts I with ſundry others, being with VVilliam Somers, he was ſitting in a chaire about two yards from the fire ſide, and ſudd…nly was caſt towards the fire, his head lighting vponupon the iron that keept vp the …ire, and one of his hands in the fire: and they being 3 or 4 taking him vp to ſaue him from burning, they could not ſet him in the chaire again: for his leggs were ſo bowed as they all could not ſtreight them, and be ſo heavie, as they could ſcarce lift him, and that neither his head, haire, nor any part of his body was hurt or burned by the fire.
And M. Iohn Strelley after this manner: de P. 1…He was on a ſudden caſt in to the fire in the preſence of all: and ſuddenly taken out without any hurt to him by the fire, being of waight as a foreſaide.
And Rich. Mee thus: And the ſaid Som. would be violently caſt into the the fire,dep 13 ſtanding from the fire a yarde and halfe off, and none of his clothes burnt or heare ſinged.
Let now the reader chuſe, whether he will beleiue this beaſt of England, or theſe 3. vponupon their oathes, and many other affirming, and readie to depoſe the ſame, and more then this. And where he ſaith, that I ſtraightly warned ſuch as keept him that they ſhould be carfull to looke vntounto him: how can this poſible be true, ſeeinge he was caſt into the fire, beforeathen bluſh for ſhame you that plead for Somers. I came to Nottingham as appeareth by the depoſition of Ioane Pye which alſo High Wilſon made knowne vntounto me at Aſhbye, when he came to me their for my repiare to So. at Nott. as he and ſomof my owne familie can witnes. And where he confeſſeth, that he caſt himſelfe vponupon the yrons or grats: it ſhould ſeeme that as the fires were very ſmall (for ſooth) and made of ſlate coales, ſo the yrons or grates by meanes therof were not hoat neither, els the would ſure hauehave burnt him.
Diſcouerer
Ouer and beſides So. depoſtion the Diſc. produceth two others wherof one depoſeth that on a time he clapt his buttockes vponupon the fire, M. Barnardthe other, that he fell downe with his ſhoulders on the fyre.
But he was oft caſt into the fire. ſo that his being caſt at two ſeuerall times as is ſaide,Iames Alwood if that were ſo, letteth not but that at other times he might be ſo caſt, as that ſome bare part of his body laye in the fire: yea it is directly depoſed by Ioane Pye of one time, and before the Biſhop of London (as I take it) by Edm. Garland of another time and place, that his bare hand laye in the fire, and for ſome little ſpace as appeareth by the circumſtances, and yet was not burned. And ther are ſundrie ready to depoſe, that at another time and place in the preſence of many, he was throwne on his face into the middeſt of a hoat & great fyre, his face bareinge downe the hoat coales that lyinge thus with a l…n…ne cap on his head Mary Couper his ſiſter ſnatched at him, plucke away the cap, and left face and barehead in the fyre: And yet behould no face burned, nor heaire ſinged thereby.
OF CHAP. 7.
Diſcouerer
Of So pretended ſtrength and weight in his fitts, that contrary to M. Dar. and his frends reports,pag 244 ther was nothing extraordinarie in them.
Darrell
So. ſay I had ſuch extraordinarie and ſupernaturall ſtrength, that 3 ſomtimes 4. 5. 6. or moe, were ſcarce able to rule him, though they had him at great advantag: as lying flatt vponupon the ground, or vponupon a bed, (yea a lowe trundle bed) or tyed faſt to a chaire 3. men for an houre or their abouts ſtriuing with him, though they ſwet and were in a manner breathles, and theirby forced to giuegive place to others: yet did he not ſo much as chang his colour, or pant, nay he was ſcarcely perceiued to draw his winde, as is depoſed ergo, So. is nocanſwere this …g…men… or els yeald to the …. counterfeite. For no man can adde to his ſtrength by counterfeiting.
Diſcouerer
The Diſc. now telleth vsus that his ſtrength was not extraordinary, And he proueth it firſt by So. ridiculous depoſition, then by the depoſitions of 7. others.
Somtimes ſaith Ed. Garland a man that hath had great triall of Som. ſupernaturall ſtrength) Somers ſtrength was but ordinarie And againe,pag 245 I found him often of eaſie ſtrength.
Darrell
VVhy this leteth not but that at ſome other times in ſome of his fitts, he was of extraordinarie ſtreugth: And this I doubt not but that Garland did at the ſame time depoſe, though we here nothing of it. Yea his very words inſinuat no leſſe. The other ſixe depoſe that they aparte prouing his ſtrength, found it to be but ordinarie. I doe not ſay neither euer did, that So. in all his fitts was of extraordinarie ſtrength, for then indeede Garland and the other ſixe had depoſed materially: but of ſuch ſtrength in ſome of them he was without all queſtion and cō tradiction. He foamed we ſaye, he wallowed we ſay, he was caſt into the ſyre we ſay, etc. Yea wee ſay not that he foamed, or wallowed, he was caſt into the fire in all and eueryevery of his fittes but that in ſome of them and at ſundrie times he was evidently ſeene to be thus ſtrangly and extraordinarily viſited. And preſuppoſe that vponupon the apprehention of alewde perſon for ſome fellonious acte, 3 or 4. honeſt ſubſtantia men ſhould bring in euidence, that ſuch a day and time they ſaw the p…rtie breakinge vp his neighbours houſe and takinge away his goods were not this euidence ſufficient in law and reaſon to convince the fell…, becauſe that at ſome other time or times, other his good frendes did ſee him ſitting in his chaire and reading of a booke? For this is truly the Diſc. manner of reaſoninge in this caſe, to bleare the eyes of the world with, and to proue this counterfeiting if … …lde, S…nes (forſooth) Somers ſtrength was but ordinarie: and Somtimes or often (ſaith another) I found him but of eaſie ſtrength: ergo S…m ſtrength was not extraordinarie, as Darrell affirmeth. In like manner he argueth before: one a time ſaith on, Som. clapt his buttocks on the fire another, he ſell downe with his ſhoulders on the fire, ergo So. was neuer caſt into the fire, his face, or bare hands being in the fire, and he not burned.
OF CHAP. 8.
Diſcouerer
So. knowledge in his ſits was not extraordinarie as M. Dar. and his frendes hauehave falſlye pretended: neither could he ſpeake Greeke, Hebrew, or Latine, otherwiſe then he had learned.
Darrell
That his knowledge was extraordinarie, I truſt it is elswhere in the hiſtorie made manifeſt. Againſt it nothing is obiected worthy the anſwering. But alas poore Somers himſelfe) who neuer fayleth the Diſc. at a pinch) he good ſoule like an honeſt youth is as eueryevery hand whyle ſo here brought vponupon the ſtage to patch out this deſperat cauſe, and to depoſe at large: now wheras to this end I hauehave alleadged that he (a boy ſcarcely vnderſtanding one article of the Creeddid expound the Creed by the ſpace of an houre togeither or their abouts, (a thing acknowledged by two of the Discouerers owne witneſſes) this is handſomly ſhad owed, glozed vponupon and daubed ouer in theſe words: that he was in ſome ſort enabled ſo to doe, by reaſon that almoſt eueryevery miniſter, that came vntounto him, had interpreted the Articles of the Creed diuers times vntounto him. It had bene good and a moſt equall and indifferent courſe (ſeeing So. is knowne to be an impudent lying wretch) for the ſtrengthening of this glozing depoſition, ſo vnlikly to be true, to hauehave had theſe miniſters knowne, and ther names, that did thus enable and inſtruct Som. in the articles of the Creede: or at leaſt the depoſitions of ſome of thoſe who were then preſent would then hauehave bene taken. It had bene no heard matter for the Commiſſioners to hauehave ſifted out this vponupon the taking of the depoſitions, if it had pleaſed them, ſeeing it is depoſed (you ſee) that theſ Miniſters hauehave interpreted vnt… him th… articles of the Creed diuers times and that in the time of this his tro…le he was ſe…ome or neuer alone. But admitt that ſuch a cour…e …ere taken by I know not how many miniſters viſitinge him in his ſicknes, (a thing that I ſuppoſe no man of vnderſtanding will eaſily beleiue) …et it is a queſtion whether So. were of himſelfe able to lay vp ſo much, as ſomtimes he deliuered.
OF CHAP. 9.
There was no impoſſibility in So. ſites as M. Dar. and his frendes hauehave … p…tended.
Diſcouerer
This th… Diſ. proueth by no leſſe then 10. depoſitions. Now I … (ſaith Robert Couper) what thinges the boy … in … than… a…y other of his numb…enes and capacitie may doe the like.
Darrell
Robert Cooper being preſent at So. diſpoſſeſſion, with teares confeſſed his ſinnes before vsus all, being ſome 150. If at that time he though So. counterfeited, then thoſe teares of his and confeſſion were hipocriticall. The truth is that oppreſſed with feare, vponupon the fearefull ſight he then beheld, he ſhed thoſe teares and made that confeſſion: as the men of Epheſus did vponupon the report only of the like worke of Satan: but being now without that feare, as himſelfe confeſſeth, his mind or iudgment as it ſhoulde ſeeme is cleane altered, as by this and other wretched depoſitions of his appeareth.
Diſcouerer
I was oft (quoth George Richardſon) with the boy in his fittes, and could neuer ſee any thing done by him,pag 256 but I could doe the like.
Darrell
George Richardſon pag 233. depoſeth that he ſaw So. in afitte, wher in he ſoamed exceedingly Now I thinke he can not do the like, though he put a peace of blacke lead into his mouth to helpe him, as he ſaith So. then did. And where he ſaith he was oft with him, I ſpppoſe his oft times, were not aboue 2 or 3 times.
Diſcouerer.
Seeing So in his fitts (ſaith M. Aldred) the fift of Nouember,pag 2…6 heauinge vp his belly, drawing his mouth towards his eares: ſcriching, et, I departed away perſwaded that he was a counterfeite, and that he did nothing, but that a boy naughtely diſpoſed might doe as well as he.
Darrell
But I would faine know what M. Aldred did thinke vponupon the 7 of Nouember, vponupon which day he preached at So. diſpoſſeſſion, and in his prayer confeſſed his ſinnes with teares, on which morning alſo he ſaid to ſome, that the ſaid night his ſleepe departed from him, vponupon that he beheld the euening before in Som. as alſo what he thought of Som. when he was firſt depoſed before the 12. Commiſſioners. It may be their are many thouſands in this kingdome which ſomtimes thought So. to be ac…ounterfeite… who now ſee & confeſſe that it is vnpoſſible it ſhould be for this therfore is nothing to the purpoſe nor at all againſt me that M. Aldred hath depoſed. For albeit the 5 of Nouember he ſpeake…n off ne might Imagine thoſe few actions of the boy to be counterfeite, yet this …etteth not but that at other times both after and before vponupon the ſight of other more ſtrange and fearefull accidents, he might be of an other mind. And thus (but for breuities ſake) could I par…culerly anſweare and avoyde all theſe depoſitions of the Diſcouerer.pag 257.
Diſcouerer.
I neuer did ſee any thing that So.Alow that all thoſe & a duzen more ſay true vz. that they neuer ſawe &c. no did Iohn a Stile nor Ihon a Nok… they are all wee ſ…e in the negatiue. therfore 2. honeſt men in the affirmitiue craſe and confound them all. did, to make me to thinke that it was ſupernaturall: ſaith Nich. Shepheard. and M. Craven, I did not ſee him doe any thing which another boy might not eaſilie hauehave performed. And M. Foſter, I ſaw nothing but it might be counterfeited. and M Pare: I could not perceiue any extraordinary thing to be done by the boy, but what any other might well hauehave done: And M VVallis, I could not perceuie any ſuch ſtrangnes in the thinges I ſaw the boy doe, and Iames Alwood: vponupon the 5 of Nouember at night: I obſerued that any body naughtily diſpoſed, might hauehave done the ſame. And laſtly ſaith Rich. Newton: I neuer ſaw Somers doe any thing, but that aboy of his yeares might eaſilie doe.
Darrell.
Becauſe theſe men were either blind,… 1… or ſeeing would not ſee, ſhall wee therfore put out the eyes of others, of the 17 depoſed firſt, and of ſundrie others depoſed ſince: as alſo of hundreds beſides readie to depoſe the ſame, if they were thervnto called by authoritie? All men are not like to Peter and Iohn who ſaid vntounto the faces of the hie priſts and Elders,act. 4. 20. that they could not but ſpeake the things which they had ſeene & heard. 2. wher almoſt al theſ 10 witneſes which ſaw So. in many fits depoſe, that they themſelues could do the like, others, that any body might doe the ſame, yea eaſily: how can it be but that they be periured if they hauehave ſo depoſed indeede? for their be almoſt 30 which hauehave depoſed to about 20 thinges impoſſible to be done by any naturall or artificiall power. Beſid, by the depoſitions of So. & others depoſed & examined by the B: and the Diſc, and alledged in this booke to proue counterfeiting, and ſo by the Diſcouerie it ſelfe, it is manifeſt, that it is not ſo very eaſie a matter for one, much leſſe for any body naughtily diſpoſed, to doe the ſame So. did. Seven came to carrie me (ſaith Somers) whom, as I thinke, I did very much trouble: wherevpon it was giuen ou…, that I was ſo heavie in my fittes as 7 were ſcarce able to carie me. By this reporte it ſhould ſeeme that 7 could hardly carry him, not becauſe of his ſtrugling, and yet eueryevery boye can not ſo ſtruggle, but for the exceedinge great weaight of his body (which is by ſome depoſed) whervpon this report did riſe.pag. 180. & 18…. It is alſo confeſſed and depoſed, that he made his belly to ſwell and did hide his tongue vz: ſo as no parcell of it could be ſeene with a candle, for not longe before and in the preſence of the Maior with ſome 50 others, his mouth was by 12 perſons or their aboutes looked into with a candle,pag. 23. 5 pag 215. pag 201. pag 233. pag 189. but no tongue nor parcell therof was their to be ſeene, ſaue the roote in his throate: Againe, Som: thruſt his tonge backwarde into his throate, ſpeake with his mouth wyde open, pricked with pinnes, endured it, foamed exceedingly, that the foame ran downe on both the ſides of his mouth, pag 2…3.and about his chinne, & roaped downe into his necke: Theſe thinges (confeſſed by the Diſco. himſelfe and the frendes of counterfeiting, yea depoſed by his owne deponents,) can not any body naughtely diſpoſed eaſily doe: yea hereby it is euidēt that no body can by art doe the like, and theirfore So: hath not counterfeited. Let the Diſc. then and frendes of counterfeiting be iudged out of there owne mouthes. And this is the 12. time the Diſcouerer is convinced by his Diſcouery, Before we hauehave hearde that the Diſc. in his Diſcouerie hath diſcouered my innocencye: & heere we playnly ſee that he hath done as much for the cauſe it ſelfe. Yf now hereby the impoſſibilitie of So. counterfeitiug doe appeare: how much more, when herevnto we ſhall add the rare and ſupernaturall accidents mentioned in my anſweare to the laſt chapter of the third booke.
Diſcouerer
Whether theſe depoſitions will ſatiſfie M. Dar and his frends,pag 257. it may be doubted, but to any reaſonable men they will be ſufficient, to ſhew the vanitie of the foreſaid pretended impoſibilities.
Darrell
The Diſc. may now be out of doubt, that theſe his depoſitions doe not ſatiſfie me, as alſo why: neither doe they or can they ſatiſfie I truſt any reaſonable men, but muſt needes appeare vntounto them to be as generally vaine & friuolous, ſo moſt of them manifeſtly falſe, & the deponēts plainly periured, if they ha…e ſo depoſed. Farr therfore are they from ſhewing any vanitie in the aforeſaid impoſibilities, witneſſed by a cloud of witneſſes. And thus is this ſuppoſed vanitie of the aforeſaid impoſſibilities quite ouerthrowne, & made lighter then vanitie it ſelfe.
OF CHAP. 10.
How contrarie to M. Dar. and his frend aſſertions, W. So. was accounted by many in Nottingham, for a diſſembler, from the time that he begane his practiſes there,pag 259 Tho. Porter Ro…. Cooper Ed Garland M. Barnard vntill be coufeſſed the ſame himſelfe.
Diſcouerer
This he proueth by ſundrie depoſitions. One depoſeth, I told M. Dar. it was reported, that the boy did counterfeite. Another, I did verilie thinke that he did but diſſemble. A third, many ſtill hold opinion, that the boy did diſſemle. A fourth, I thinke that So. diſſembled: and thus doe 3 moe depoſe.
Darrell
The people of the Iewes ſaid of Chriſt, that he was aglutton and a drinker of wine, and that he had a diuill: yea the phariſes ſaid of him, that he was aconiurer,math. 11. 19. Iohn 7. …0 math. 9. 34. and 12 24. caſting out deuils, through Belz…bub the Prince of deuils. And yet behold there was neuer any thinge more falſe. Many, yea generally all the people of the Iewes did thinke and report, that the diſciples did ſteale Ieſus away by night, whiles the ſoulders ſleept: and I warrant you,math. 28, 13. 15 had the hie prieſts, (who rayſed vp this ſlaunder of the reſurrection of Chriſt) ſent forth Commiſſioners, enow would hauehave depoſed the ſame and yet lo… exceeding falſe: yea not only ſo, but abhorring to common ſenſe. For what more abſurd and ſenſeles thinge can be vttered, then that which the ſouldires affirmed, that while they ſleept, his diſciples ſtole him away? yf Chrſt was gone while the ſouldiers ſleept, as they reported, and was generally beleeued, a monge the Iewes how knewe the ſouldiers that the diſciples ſtole him away? and whether he raiſed vp himſelfe, and went away yea or no, as his diſciples affirmed? Thus we ſee theris nothing ſo falſe and abſurd, ſpecially if it be againſt the glory of god and the good of his church, but if Sathan once gette any to giuegive it out in ſpeach, many will beleiue it, and report it. Even ſo albeit it be palpable falſe, abhorring from reaſon and ſenſe and vtterly impoſſible to be true, that Som. did counterfeit, yet not withſtanding it may be bele…ued, reported, and depoſed by many. So in conſiderate and fooliſh is man to beleiue eueryevery thing. prou. 14. 1….This the old ſerpent hath in long experience knowne to be true, & that therby yea by nothing more he hath in all ages preuailed greatly againſt the Lord, and his ſervants. Otherwiſe he would neuer ſpread abroad ſo manifeſt ſlaunders as vnceſſantly he doth. And as generally in other caſes he doth thus without faile, & euer will: ſo hath he done in theſe particul…r workes of god, whereof my ſelfe hauehave bene a witnes. Kath. Wright was no ſooner diſpoſſeſſed, but preſently the deuill raiſ…d vp one Beckingham an old man in the miniſtrie, and a kinde of preacher, to ſay that ſhe had the falling ſicknes: and yet the man neuer ſaw her vntill her diſpoſſeſſion. Darling being diſpoſſeſſed, Sathan ſtirred vp one Edward Baker to ſay that he counterfeited, and others to report that he was helped by a witch of Staphenhil. when the 7. in Lancaſhire were deliuered from Sathan, the papiſts gaue in out and ſpread it abroad that I was a Coniurer, in ſo much as M. Dickons writtinge vntounto me thereof, aduīſed me to come to Mancheſter, and onenly in the pulpit to cleare my ſelfe of that ſlaunder. Neither doe I doubt but that the ſame is noyſed among them vntill this day. For ſince my impriſonment I vnderſtand by writing, that they report their, that I did put the deuill into them all, the very ſame words alſo hauehave ſ…ndry of them ſaid to my face in priſon. And they papiſtes at they Cl… openly and a loud hauehave called my beloued brother M. More, who ioyned with me in the ſame worke, (and in regard theirof hath bene my fellow in bonds) Conturer. In like ſorte when the deuill was caſt out of Somers, he had ſome at hand to ſay that he counterfeited: yea ceaſed not vntill by himſelfe and his inſtruments, he had not onelyonly drawne t… boy (vponupon whom the worke was wrought; to ſay that he counterfeted: but that the ſame might be more probable and the rather beleiued, to affirme beſides that I taught him ſo to doe: yea lett vsus aſſure our ſelues that if Satan ſhould be driven out of thowſands hereafter, againſt eueryevery ſuch worke of god, & for the obſcuring of it, he would ra…e vp & ſpread abroad one ſlaunder or other: otherwiſe god ſhould goe with the glorie due to him, and man make his beſt profit therof, without any reſiſtance by Sathan, which is not poſſible, except in ſom ſpeciall caſe, and for a certaine time it pleaſe the lord to chaine him vp. Be it then as the Diſc. ſaith, (though in this chapter of his there be much vntruth) that So was accounted by many in Nott. for a diſſembler: it doth no more proue So. to be a diſſembler, then the account and report of the people of the Iewes proueth that Iohn the baptiſt had a deuill, math. 11. 18.yea that Chriſt was a glutton and drincker of wine, that he caſt ou… deuils by the prince of deuils and that he had a deuill: In a matter of religion or concerning god or his ſeruants. vox populi, is not (as we commonly ſaye) vox dei, but often, if not for the moſt parte, uox diaboli. Yet indeede the people or multitude, ſaid not from time to time, nor yet at any time, that So. counterfeited, as the Diſc. affirmeth, but the contrary. But let vsus frame and therby a litle better obſerue the Diſc. argument, therby to ſee how ſubſtantiallie he proueth Som. to hauehave counterfeited. It was reported, ſaith one: I thinke, I verily thinke (ſay others) that So. did counterfeit, ergo So. counterfeited. Behold the Diſc. demonſtration. If this be a good argument, then this alſo: many reporte that So. did not counterfeit, and ſome of better iudgment and credite then theſe deponents hauehave ſo depoſed: as namely M. Ireton, M. Browne M. Evington, but alas theſe men were out of their owne element.M. Brinſley, preachers of the goſpell: ergo So. did not counterfeite Thus alſo I can proue that So. was poſſeſſed, for they aforeſaid preachers hauehave depoſed that they thinke ſo. Yea what is their ſo falſe,pag. 150. & 151. that one may not (in appearance) proue, or ſo true that he can not diſproue by this kind of argument? many thinke and prattle of the fyre of purgatorie, ergo etc. The Iewes who are not a few thinke, and verily thinke, and ſay to this day, that the Meſſias is not yet come, ergo. The Diſco. may be aſhamed thus to diſpute. But this ſhamles kinde of arguing,pag 259. doth wel ſut with the cauſe he hath in hand. Neuertheleſſe I anſwere particularly to the chiefeſt of theſe depoſitions.
Diſcouerer
I did alwayes (ſaith M. Aldred) hubt in myhart, that he did but diſſ…ble.
Darrell
… we hauehave heard before how greatly M. Aldred was affēcted with that he beheld in So. the 6. of Nouember at night, and the day of his d…poſſeſſion, whither for breuities …ake I referr the reader: ſo as it can not poſſible be true that is heere depoſed. And if M. Aldred hauehave … vponupon his oath, his depoſition is not to be regarded.
Diſcouerer
When I perceiued (quoth M. Leigh) that the diuel,pag … that was pretended to be in Somers, could ſpeake no language but Engliſh, I tooke the boye for a counterfe…e, and ſo alwayes after I did repute him.
Darrell
I anſweare M. Leigh, that this a ſory argument and ſily concluſion to perſwade him (and others through him) of Som counterfeiting, becauſe he could ſpeake no language but engliſh. For their be many (no doubt) in England which be ſomwhat ſtragly handled, that can ſpeak no other language but engliſh, & yet are no counterfeits. Neither doth …ence … that he had no deuill in him: except M. Leigh can proue this, that whoſoeuer is poſſeſſed and hath a deuill in him, ſpeaketh diuers Languages: then indede he ſaith ſomethinge. Their is no doubt but that the … can ſkill of all Languages: but it followeth not their vponupon that beinge in man, he theirfore will ſpeake the ſaid languages, or ſome of them, at the becke alſo and pleaſure of this or that man. He can doe many thinges, that he will not doe. No queſtion but the deuill in So.m (god permitting) could hauehave done a thouſand thinges whereby it ſhould hauehave bene as manifeſt he had bene in Somers, as by ſpeaking latin, or greeke, whereof he did not one: and yet it followeth not theirvpon that he was not theire.