Answer to a Popish Antichristian Catholic, Offer 6
The ſixt Offer.
Offerer.
Syxt. Let the Proteſtantes ſhewe what Church from Chriſt his tyme hetherto, and for the whole ſpace of theſe fifteene hundred yeeres paſt, hath exerciſed diſcipline and due correction vponupon offenders of all degrees, and for that purpoſe, hath not only prouided and made, but continuallie executed, lawes, Canons and decrees eccleſiaſticall, by ſuſpenſion, excommunication, degradation, and ſuch other lyke. Let them prooue thys diſcipline to hauehave proceeded of the Proteſtantes congregations, or to hauehave contynued from time to time, in any other Church, then in the common knowen Catholique Church of Chriſt: And I wyll then recant, and not before.
Crowley.
Here is much a doo and little helpe. The learned proteſtant muſt prooue that thing, that no Proteſtant hath, dooth, or wyll at any time affirme: for otherwiſe the Offerer wyll in no wiſe yéelde to recant. We doo knowe, and hauehave at all times confeſſed, that Chriſtes knowen Catholique Church onelyonly hath the keyes of opening and ſhutting, looſing and binding: and that none other congregation but that, can eyther admit any to be of the fellewſhip of Chriſtians, or by excommunication cut of any man from that body of Chriſt, but onelyonly that knowen Catholique church of Chriſt, which is builed vponupon the foundation of the Apoſtles and Prophets, Ieſus Chriſt being the head cornerſtone. You doo therefore offer vsus great iniurie, in that you require vsus to prooue that which we dyd neuer affirme.
But I ſée what ſtone it is that the Offerer dooth ſo often ſtumble at. He is perſwaded that there can be no knowen Catholique Church of Chriſt: but that Romiſhe Church (whereof he himſelfe is a member) which is now manifeſtly knowen to be an Antichriſtian congregation, and not the knowen Catholique Church of Chriſt, as the Offerer and hys fellowes, would beare vsus in hand that it is.
The knowen Catholique Church of Chriſt, hath alwayes vſed to execute eccleſiaſticall cenſures vponupon ſuch as hauehave béene offenſiue in lyfe and manners, and vponupon ſuch as hauehave béene diſturbers of the common peace of the Church: and ſo doo we at this day, without reſpect of any mans perſon, ſo farre foorth as in dutifull obedience to ſuch as God hath made our gouernour we may. But to excommunicate and depoſe Princes we hauehave not learned of S. Paule, nor of the Fathers that lyued in the firſt ſixe hundered yéeres after the aſcention of our Sauiour Chriſt.
Your bragge of 1500. yéeres continuance in the executing of your diſcipline, muſt bee cut ſhorter by 600. yéeres for your Catholique Antichriſtian Church hath not floryſhed in her pride, full one thouſand yéeres as yet, neither hauehave you executed your tirannous diſcipline in ſuch ſorte as you would ſéeme to hauehave doone: in that tyme of your tirannous raigne. But whenſoeuer you tooke in hand to execute any diſcipline: you had (and ſo yée hauehave ſtill) a ſpeciall regarde to your owne eaſe and commoditie, and to the aduanceing and vpholding of your owne honour and dignity. Your owne Hiſtories are full of the reportes, of your corrupt and partiall dealinges in that behalfe.
It is God himſelfe that hath preſcribed an order of diſcipline, and hath in all tymes and ages committed the execution thereof to hys Church, which hath had continaunce euen from the beginning of the world. This diſcipline was firſt engrauen in the hartes of men, and after that, in tables of ſtone, and laſt of all in bookes, that by thoſe outwarde meanes, the diſcipline grauen in the hart might be daily refreſhed: but euen the beſt men that hauehave béene in Authority in the Church, and hauehave had the execution of thys diſcipline, hauehave béene to ſlacke in that he halfe, as by hiſtories it appeareth. No maruaile therfore, though to great ſlacknes in the execution of this diſcipline be found in that Church which you and your ſorte doo account to be Schiſmaticall, but is in déede Catholique, and that knowen Catholique Church from which your Antechriſtian Church is fallen.
That diſcipline that you make ſo great a reckoning of, is your cannon lawe (I am ſure) which your Popes hauehave patched together ſince they gate the vpper hand, and enforced Princes to doo them ſeruice and to kyſſe their féete. That diſcipline you execute, with Precipimus, & firmiter iniungendo mandamus. Wee charge you (ſay you) and with firme iniūction we commaund you. And what is it that you doo thus commaund to be doone? That ſuch a man, or ſuch a woman, as hath not appeared in your courte, or hath refuſed to pay ſuch fées as your officers requyre, or that hath failed in dooing ſome acte that by that lawe they are bound to doo: be denounced excommunicated, ſub pena iuris. VnderUnder payne of hauing the penalty of the Lawe executed vppon that miniſter that wyll not denounce ſuch a one excommunicated.
But if a whore or a whoremonger, a drunkarde or a blaſphemer of God, an Vſurer or a ſimmoniacke, or any other wicked perſon; ſhalbe conuented before your eccleſiaſticall iudge: if hys purſſe be waightie, and his hande readie to reache out money in paying double fées, and in giuing to ſuch vſes as you cal Godly, ſo that you may hauehave the diſpoſing therof: then this party muſt be receiued as a communicant amongeſt Chriſtians, although it doo appeare manyfeſtly that there is neyther amendment of lyfe▪ nor hope of repentaunce ſhewed any way. And would God that our execution of diſcipline, were more frée from this corruption then it is. But that wyll not be, ſo long as ſo many of your minde may be ſuffered to bée in offyce vnderunder them that hauehave the execution of diſcipline.
I thinke you doo now ſée, that the right dſcipline, hath not béene prouided and made by men, neither of your ſorte, nor of ours: but by God himſelfe. And that there hath béen, and is ſtill, as great, (yea greater) corruption, vſed in the executing of diſcipline, amongſt you, as is or hath béene amongſt vsus. Yea and that your Church, (which is Antichriſtian) hath not had the continuance of 1500. yéeres, in that glory that now it dooth claime vntounto it ſelfe. Wherfore I doo require you now to recant (according to promiſe) although you would not before.