Answer to a Popish Antichristian Catholic, Offer 21
The one and twenty Offer.
Offerer.
One and twentie. If vnity in faith, auſterity of lyfe, ſharp diſcipline, great penance, much faſtings, large almes, godly deuotion, obedience to higher powers, grauitie, and true charitie, bee not more euidently exerciſed and vſed in our cōmon knowne Catholike church, then in the proteſtants congregation: and contrarywiſe, if diſcord in religion, licentiouſnes in liuing, contempt of diſcipline, reiecting of penaunce, lothſomneſſe of faſting, lacke of zeale and deuotion, diſobedience to magiſtrates, Sacrilege, Apoſtacie, breaking of vowes, vnlawfull luſts, wantonnes in all lyfe and maners, doo not agree better, and more cleare to the Proteſtants, then to the Catholikes, being the plaine ſignes and fruites of a falſe church, Then will I recant, and not before.
Crowley.
How well the vnitie of the true Chriſtian faith is exerciſed in your commonly knowne Catholike church (that is your Antichriſtian church) the reader may ſée in ye which the proteſtant hath written in anſwering the 14. Offer. As for your auſteritie of life, your ſharpnes of diſcipline, your greatnes of penance, your largenes of almes, & godlines of deuotion: may very well be packed vp in a pocket of Hypocriſie, & ſuperſtition, and ſent to your holy father the Popes holines, the next new yéere, for a new yéeres gift. And as for your obedience to higher powers, your grauitie & true charitie: may right well be ſéene in Pope Conſtantine the firſt, who admitted the Emperor Iuſtinian, to the kiſſing of his foote: about ye yéere of our Lord, 710. And in Pope Gregorie the ſecond, who cauſed ye ſubiects of Leo the Emperor to breake out in open rebellion againſt their liege Lord the Emperor, bicauſe he had taken Images out of churches. About the yéere of our Lord, 730. In Pope Steuen the 2, who ſuffred him ſelfe to bée borne into ye church called Laterane, vponupon mens ſhoulders, whereby hée gaue occaſion to his ſucceſſors to be ſo carried, after the maner of Heathen princes: About the yéere of our Lord, 755. In Leo the third, who being accuſed before the Emperor Charles the great: ſuffered the biſhops that then were preſent, to anſwere ye Emperor (when he required them to ſay their mindes, concerning the crimes that were laide to his charge) ſaying thus. The Apoſtles ſeat, which is the heade of other ſeates ought not to be iudged of any man, eſpecially being a lay man. About the yéere of our Lord, 800. In Pope Leo the 4. alſo, who hauing obtained a victorie againſt the Saraſens: did offer his owne féete to bee kiſſed of the people. About the yéere, 850. In Pope Ioane, who being a woman in mans apparell, was Pope for the ſpace of two yéeres, and died in trauell of chylde, as ſhee was going in Proceſſion towards Laterane church in Rome. About the yéere of our Lord, 855. In Pope Steuen the ſixt, who through the hatred that hee bare to Formoſus his prediſeſſor, did condemne him and all his acts or ordinaunces. Yea, and hée reuenged himſelfe vponupon the deade body of Formoſus, which déed grew into a cuſtome, from thence foorth. This was about the yéere of our Lord, 898. In Pope Sergius the third alſo, who bearing a pryuate grudge towards the ſame Formoſus: did not only abrogagate all the lawes that had bin made by him, but he did alſo cauſe his deade body to be taken out of the graue, wherein Pope Steuen the ſixt had cauſed him to bee buried amongſt the common people, and his head and thrée of his fingers to be cut of, and his headleſſe body to be caſt into ye riuer Tiber. About the yéere of our Lord, 910. An example of true charitie in theſe two Popes. Another example of true louelove in a Deacon, ye aſſiſting Pope Victor the ſecond, at his Maſſe, did put poyſon into his Challice, & ſo diſpatched him, About the yeere of our Lord, 1055. In Pope Gregorie the ſeuenth, wée ſée a notable example of obedyence to the higher powers. For, about the yéere of our Lord 1080. hée excommunicated the Emperor Henry the 4. and abſolued all his ſubiects from their oth of obedience to him. In Pope Victor the third, there is to bée ſéene a notable example of true louelove or charitie, in that perſon that put poyſon into his Challice, & ſo diſpatced him, about the yéere of our Lord, 1090. Alexander the third, did vſe Lewes king of France, and Henry king of England, as his Horſkéepers: appoynting the one of them to go one foote by his Horſſes head on the right ſide, and the other on the left, each of them holding the raigne of his Bridle. About the yeere of our Lord, 1160. A ſinguler example of obedience to the hygher powers. Gregorie the 8. did decrée, that biſhops ſhould bee preferred before Princes in degree, about the yeere of our Lord, 1190. And Pope Innocent the thirde, is reported to hauehave ſayd thus, in his brauerie, againſt Phillip, whom ye ſeculer Princes had choſen to be Emperor. Let the Pope take the kingly Diademe from Phillip: or els let Philip take ye Apoſtolike inſigne from ye Pope. Who would not take this man to bee a ſinguler example of obedience to the higher powers? Yea, in ye decretals yt this Innocent hath ſet forth, it is decreed, that the Pope ought to hauehave the correcting of the Princes of the earth, and that hee is Emperor whom ye Pope dooth crowne. This was doone, about the yeere of our Lord, 1200. Pope Gregorie the ninth, did promiſe euerlaſting life to as many as would ſerue in ye field againſt Frederike, then Emperor. About ye yeere of our Lord, 1230. And when this Emperor was reconciled to the Popes fauour againe: hee did his penance, which was to bring into the treaſurie of the church (that is the Popes Coffers) 120000. ownces of golde. And yet after all this, the ſame Pope Gregorie, did excommunicate the ſame Emperor againe, and holding a counſell with his Cardinalles, hee did depriue him of his Empire, & cauſed the Croſſe to be preached againſt him. Which was to incite and to ſtirre vp all men to make warre againſt him, as againſt the greateſt enimy of Chriſtian religion. Pope Innocent the fourth, did by a firme decrée make it lawful for the Pope to depoſe the Emperor. About the yeere of our Lord, 1250. Pope Martine the fourth, excommunicated th' Emperor and the king of Arragon, and made warre againſt the ſayd king of Arragon. About the yeere of our Lord, 1280. Pope Bonifacius 8. in a great glorie, ſhewed him ſelfe twice. Firſt in his pontificalibus, granting large pardons to the people: and on the next day, in the imperiall robes, hauing a naked ſworde carried before him. And as hée ſate in his maieſtie, hée cried with a lowde voyce, ſaying, Ecce duo gladij hic. Behold, héere are two ſwords. This was about the yeere, 1300. A Frier of the Order of the popiſh preachers, did poyſon Henry the ſeuenth Emperor, by deliuering vntounto him a conſecrated hoſte (as they terme it) wherein hee had put a ſtronge poyſon, which diſpatched him. About the yéere, 1310. Pope Clement the ſixt, hauing excommunicated Lewes the Emperor, and all the Princes and biſhops that tooke parte with him: ſayd that now th' Empire was fallen vntounto him: and therefore he placed captaines in ye cities of Italy. This was about the yeere, 1340. Pope Vrbane the ſixt, in hatred toward Clement the 7. whom the Frenchmen had choſen to be Pope, tooke fiue Cardinalles, and lapped them in one ſacke and drowned them. This was doone about the yéere 1380. A ſingular example of true charitie. Yea, and a ſingular example of obedience, is to be ſeene in Alexander the third (of whom I ſpake before) in that hee admitting the Emperor Frederike, ſurnamed Barbaroſſa, to the kiſſing of his foote, did ſet his foote in the Emperors neck, pronouncing theſe woords of the Pſalme. 91. Super aſpidem, &c. VponUpon the Adder and Baſiliſke ſhalt thou walk, and thou ſhalt ſtamp vponupon the Lyon & the Dragon. This was done about the yeere, 1170. And Celeſtinus the fourth, when he crowned the Emperor Henry the fift, ſonne to the foreſaid Frederike: did ſet the Emperiall crowne vponupon the head of the Emperor with his feete, and did topple it of againe with one of his féete, in token, that as hee had powre to make an Emperor, ſo hée had powre to depoſe him againe.
Héere M. Offerer may ſée a number of examples, of obedience to the higher powers, of great grauitie, & of true charitie, euen in ſuch as hauehave bin the chiefe in his Catholike church: if hée can ſhew mee but one example, amongeſt them that hauehave bin of ye proteſtants Catholike church, like vntounto theſe manifolde examples of commaunding, controuling, excommunicating, perſecuting, and depoſing of ye higher powers, and triumphing ouer them: then will I recant the proteſtants Catholike religion, and profeſſe Poperie, as this Offerer dooth, and not before.
But now, on the contrarie (ſaith this Offerer) if diſcord in religion, licentiouſnes in liuing, contempt of diſcipline, reiecting of penaunce, lothſomnes of faſting, lacke of zeale and deuotion, diſobedience to maieſtrates, ſacryledge, Apoſtacie, breaking of vowes, vnlawfull luſts, and wantonnes in all life and maners, doo not agree better, & more cleere to the proteſtants, then to the Catholique, being the plaine ſignes & fraits of a falſe church, then will I recant, and not before.
As touching diſcord in religion, the Offerer may think him ſelfe to bee ſufficiently anſwered in that which I hauehave ſaid to the fiftéenth Offer. The reſt that hée rehearſeth as fal… agréeing to the proteſtantes religion: are not at all agréeable to that religion, that the Proteſtants doo profeſſe. For wée ſay as S. Iames hath written. Iacob. 1. Iacob. 1.If any man doo think him ſelfe to bee religious, and yet refraineth not his owne tounge, but ſuffreth his owne heart to go a ſtray that mans religion is vayne. This is the religion, that is pure and vndefiled before God and the father: for a man to viſite the fatherleſſe & widowes in their trouble, & to kéepe him ſelfe vnſpotted of the world.
Yea, wee holde (as ſaint Paule teacheth. Coloſſ. 3. Coloſſ. 3.) that Chriſtians, being riſen againe togither with Chriſt, ſhould ſeeke thoſe thinges that are aboue where Chriſt is at the right hand of God: and not things that are héere on earth. Yea, an… (as the ſame S. Paule wrote to the Phillip. 3. Philip, 3.) that Chriſtians ſhould hauehave their conuerſation in heauen & not vponupon earth: ſo that although our bodies muſt be heere for a while, yet our mindes muſt be ſetled in heauen, frō whence wée looke for a Sauiour, euen the Lord Ieſus, who by that mighty working whereby he is able to ſubdue all thing to him ſelfe, ſhall tranſforme, alter, and change our vile bodies and make them like vntounto his owne glorious body. Yea, and wée doo holde (as S. Paule taught the Romaines, Cap. 6. Rom. 6,that ſuch as are baptized, are baptized to dye, and to bee buried with Chriſt, vntounto ſinne, & to be riſen againe with him, vntounto righteouſnes of life. So that as naturally, wée are enclined to make all our partes, inſtruments or tooles of vnrighteouſnes, procéeding from one vnrighteouſnes to another: euen ſo, being baptized, our duetie is to endeuour to make our bodies and all our partes, inſtruments of righteouſnes, proceeding from one righteouſnes to another. Yea, and (as hee writeth in the 12. Chap.) we hold that our duety is to make our bodies a ſacrifice to God, that is (as I take it) the moſt acceptable ſeruice that wee can doo vntounto God.Rom. 12. Rom. 13. Yea, and (as he writeth it the 13. Chap.) we hold that wee may make no prouiſion for the fleſh, to ſatiſfie the luſts thereof. But (as he writeth, 1. Tim. 6. 1. Tim. 6.) hauing meats and drink, and cloth, & neceſſarie houſe harbor, wée be there with contented. Yea, we doo hold (as S. Peter hath taught, 1. Pet. 2. 1, Peter, 2.) that our dutie is to abſtaine from fleſhly luſts that fight againſt the ſoule, and by honeſt and good conuerſation, to ſtop the mouthes of malicious ſpeakers, & if it be poſſible to winne them to ioyne with vsus in religion, that wee may glorifie God togither, Now let the indifferent reader iudge howe thoſe foule vices yt you doo charge our religion with: doo agrée, with this our profeſſion.
It maye, that there be ſome (and I confeſſe that there bee a great number to many amongſt vsus) which are not of vsus, but doo only beare the name of proteſtant Catholiques, and are in déede of no religion. And theſe are ſuch as you ſpeake of, & the vices yt you name, doo very well agree vntounto thē. And I pray you, hath your popiſh Catholike church, at any time lacked a good roūd number of ſuch maner of men?
When your Pope (who is the head of your church) was ſuch a one as Platina reporteth Iohn the 12. to be, Monstrū hominis, A monſter amongſt men: and as Volateran ſaith, Sceleratum hominem, A man giuen ouer to all wickednes, & that he was ſlaine being taken in adultery. And as the ſame Platina and Volateran doe ſay of Sylueſter the ſecond, that be gaue himſelfe to the deuill that he might be made Pope, and that he was made Pope in déede, and did gouerne your church foure yeeres togither.
And your Pope Benedictus the ninth, of whom Volateran ſaith: that hee was Ʋir plane probroſus & infamis. A man altogither worthy of reproches, and euill reports, and infamous. And Platina ſaith that after his death hee was ſéene in an horrible ſhape, and that hee ſaid thus. Iusto Dei iudicio damnatus ſum, quia ſine lege vixi, I am damned, euen by the iuſt iudgement of God: bicauſe I liued without law. Theſe gouerned your church, one of them nine yeeres, another, foure yeeres: and the third, fifteene yeeres.
Now, if that did ſaying bee true (as in very déede it is alwaies founde to true) Regis ad exemplum totus componitur orbis, the whole world doo frame them ſelues after the example of the Ruler: how could it otherwiſe bée, but that in the daies wherein thoſe men ruled your church, you had great plenty of ſuch men as they were?
But you will ſay, this is not to be aſcribed to the religion: but to the perſons that profeſſed the religion. Well then I hope you will be contented that we doo ſay, that the falts wherewith you doo charge our religion: are the falts of ſuch perſons as profeſſing our religion, be of no religion, and are not to be imputed to our religion, but to thoſe irreligious perſons.
Wee wiſh after, and ſeeke for concord in true Catholike religion, wée deteſt and abhorre licentiouſnes of life. Wée …raue and beg, both of God and of men, the reuiuing of that diſcipline that God him ſelfe commaunded to bee exerciſed by his people. Wée embrace true and vnfained repentance, which is (as Dauid teacheth, Pſal. 34. Pſalm. 34.) to turne away from euill, and to doo the thing that is good. We louelove and practize true faſting: ſuch as Eſay the prophet requireth in the people of God. Eſay. 58. Eſay, 58.which conſiſteth in mercifull dealinge towards ſuch as bee in our daunger, and in mercifull relieuing of ſuch as doo lake thinges neceſſarie that wee are able to help them to. Wée call vponupon God for encreaſe of zeale & deuotion grounded vponupon knowledge. Wée obay all Magiſtrats in the Lord, & for the Lord. But how ſtandeth your religion with obedience to magiſtrats: when you dare aſſure them of euerlaſting life, that will enterprize to murther a prince, as (biſides your practizes of olde, whereof wée reade in hiſtories) you did of late, aſſure him that murthered the Prince of Orendge, and ſuch as ſhould hauehave murthered our ſoueraigne Lady, that now raigneth ouer vsus? Yea, that Bull that Felton fixed to the biſhop of Londons gate, dooth make it manifeſt, what obedience men of your minde, doo vſe to ſhew vntounto Magiſtrats. Sacriledge wée doo deteſt: but you hauehave taught our Patrons & Princes to rob churches and pariſhes of tythes, and ſo conſequently of the foode of the ſoule by due adminiſtration of the woord and ſacraments, and of the relife of the poore, by liberall hoſpitalitie.
Apoſtacie, wée leaue to men of your ſort which are fallen away from the auncient, true, and Apoſtolike catholike church of Chriſt: and doo obſtinatly ſtand in defence of that ſchimne that you are fallen into, notwithſtanding that your falling away is made as manifeſt vntounto all men, as thoſe things are that lie open in the cleare light of the day. We are carefull to kéepe and performe that vowe that was made in our names when wée were baptized: but if any of vsus hauehave made an vnlawfull, or a raſh vow, the performance whereof ſhould tend to ye diſhonoring or diſpleaſing of God any way: wée doo earneſtly repent that euer we made ſuch a vow, chooſing rather to ſtand to the merciemercy of God in not performing ſuch a raſh and wicked vow, then to commit & greater wickednes in the perfourming thereof, as Herod & did in cutting of the head of Iohn Baptiſt. Math. 14.Mat, 14.
As for vnlawfull luſts, and wantonnes of lyfe & maners, wée doo flée from, as it is ſeemely for Chriſtians. Wée hauehave learned to poſſeſſe our veſſells (that is our bodies) in holines and in honor. Which in déede many of vsus coulde not doo, without that remedie that God him ſelfe hath appointed, which is honorable and holy Matrimony. Heb. 13. Hebr, 13.Such therfore amongſt vsus, as otherwiſe can not hauehave chaſt mindes in chaſte bodies, doo chooſe to liue with chaſte wiues in chaſte marriage: for we hauehave learned that it is better to marrie then to burne. 1. Cor. 7. 1. Cor. 7.And wée know what ſaint Paule hath written to the Epheſ. concerning the dealing of ſome of your ſort. Epheſ. 5. Ephe, 5.It is a ſhame euen to ſpeake of thoſe things that they doo in ſecret.
If the indifferent reader will not ſay, that the vices that you hauehave charged our profeſſion and religion with, doo more clearely agrée to the popiſh Catholikes, then to the proteſtants, & bee in them plaine ſignes and fruites of falſe religion: then will I recant and not before.