Answer to a Popish Antichristian Catholic, Offer 10

Answer to a Popish Antichristian Catholic · Offer 10

The tenth offer.

Offerer.

10Tenth. For as much as the Proteſtants doo affirme, their congregation, faith and Religion, to hauehave bin practized in the Primatiue Church of Chriſt, ſome of them for the ſpace of the firſt three hūdreth yeeres, as Iohn Caluin: ſome for the ſpace of foure or fiue hundred yeeres, as Martin Luther and his complices: ſome for the whole ſpace of the firſt ſixe hundred yeeres, as M. Ievvell, and the authors of the Apollogie of the Church of England, and therein not agreeing amongſt themſelues (as the manner of Heretikes is) I require ſome better ſtaied and certaine tale of them, where and when this ſodaine change from the Proteſtants religion to the Papiſts ſhould bee made as in what yeere of our Lord, vnderunder what Pope and Emperor? by what perſons of name it was ſo wrought and brought to paſſe, and vponupon what occaſion, and what Apoſtles, Prophets, Euangeliſts, Paſtors, and Doctors of their congregations did gaineſay or withſtand the ſame? And p. 36who dooth make any mention of this ſodaine & merueilous change of the Proteſtants religion to Papiſtrie? what one Eccleſiaſticall writer, or auncient Father of the whole world? and when they ſhalbe able reſonably to anſwere and to ſatiſfie theſe my demaunds, then I will recant and yeelde to them, and not before.

Crowley.

This Offerer minding vtterly to diſcredit the Proteſtants hath with his pen teſtified for them, that they doo al agree in this one point, which is, that their Congregation, Faith, and Religion, hauehave bin practized in the Primatiue church of Chriſt. But here hée thinketh to diſcredit them all. Some of them (as Iohn Caluin, doo affirme that this was for the ſpace of the firſt thrée hundreth yéeres, ſome other (as Martin Luther and his complices) for the ſpace of foure or fiue hundreth yéeres, and ſome others (as M. Iewell and the authors of the Apologie of the Church of England) for the whole ſpace of the firſt fixe hundreth yéeres, &c. To this I ſay: That ſuch amongſt vsus as hauehave ſaid that y^e congregation or Church whereof wée bée, had continuance for the ſpace of the whole firſt ſixe hundreth yéeres, hauehave ſayd truely: and they that hauehave ſaid, for the ſpace of thrée, foure, or fiue hundreth yéeres, hauehave kept themſelues within their bounds, and therefore they hauehave not lied. If Caluin had ſaid, that the Church whereof wée bée, had continuance for no longer time then the firſt thrée hundreth yéeres, where Luther had ſaid before, that it had continuance for the ſpace of foure, or fiue hundreth yéeres: And M. Iewell, comming after them both ſhould hauehave ſaid, the continuance was for the ſpace of the firſt ſixe hundreth yéeres, in ſuch perfection as in the firſt thrée hundreth yéeres: then this Offerer might hauehave taken ſome oecaſion to note diſagréement, ſuch as is to bée ſéene amongſt Heretikes. But now, hée hath no iuſt occaſion at all.

Caluin conſidered, that during the time of the firſt 300. yeeres, the Church of Chriſt was ſtill vnderunder tyrants, and was perſecuted, and was thereby kept occupied in better exerciſes, then in ſuch pompous and ceremonial diuine ſeruice, as now is vſed in your popiſh Catholique church. And therefore hee is bolde to ſay, that the Church, whereof wee Proteſtants bee, is the ſame that was in the firſt 300. yeeres after Chriſt: for wee hauehave abandoned (as farre foorth as wee may) all thoſe ſuperfluous ceremonies, as hauehave bin diuiſed by men, and enforced vponupon the Church of Chriſt, ſince the ende of the firſt 300. yeeres: which are in deede too too many, as by the woords of ſaint Auguſtine Epist. 119. Auguſt, in Epiſt. 119.Ad Ianuarium. Seruilibus oneribus premunt, vt tolerabilior fit conditio Iudeorum, &c? They oppreſſe vsus with ſeruile burdens: ſo that the condition or eſtate of y^e Iewes, was more tollerable then ours is. None of all thoſe burdens were layde vponupon the Church before the ende of y^e firſt 300. yeeres: but the Chriſtians being vnderunder the croſſe of perſecution, ſerued God in fréedome of conſcience, & were not tied to any neceſſity of ceremonies, but vſed a few ſuch ceremonies as ſéemed to ſerue beſt for their edification in their exerciſe of religion, and ſo doo wée, and that congregation alſo amongſt whom Caluin liued, which might mooue him to ſay, that the faith and religion that is profeſſed by vsus, was practized in the firſt 300. yeeres, after the incarnation of our ſauiour Chriſt.

But this Offerer requireth ſome better ſtaied & certaine tale, &c. bicauſe Luther and other doo differ from Caluin. He muſt know where & when this ſodaine change from y^e proteſtants religion to the papiſts was made, as in what yéere of our Lord, &c. If it ſhal pleaſe him to read it, & aduiſedly to weigh eueryevery part of it: hee ſhall hauehave heere as plaine a tale (concerning this matter) as euer hée did read or heare. And thus it beginneth.

When Chriſt Ieſus had giuen ſo large a commiſſion to his Apoſtles, as to go into all the world, & to teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of y^e father, of the ſonne, & of y^e holy Ghoſt: they executed that cōmiſſion, with al painefull diligence, not fearing what man either would or could p. 37doo againſt them. And ſo in ſhort time, the knowledge of the goſpell was ſpred all the world ouer: as the Apoſtle Paule writeth to the Romaines Cap. 10. Rom. 10.Rom 10citing the woords of the Prophet Dauid. Pſal. 19. Pſal. 19.Ps 19Jn omnem terram, &c. The ſound of them is gone out into all the world, &c. But the doctrine of the goſpell which they preached was not ſo regarded in y^e city of Rome as it ſhould hauehave bin, & as it ſéemeth that this Offerer and his fellowes bée perſuaded that it was, at that time, wherein ſaint Paule was brought priſoner to Rome: which was in the tenth yeere of the raigne of Nero, & but foure yéeres before S. Paule ended his life. At that time, the chiefe amongſt the Iewes that then liued in Rome, being called togither by S. Paule, and being occaſioned by him to ſpeake of the chriſtian Religion, they ſaid thus. Wee are willing to heare of thee what thine opinion is: for we doo know, that this ſect, is eueryevery where ſpoken againſt. Act. 28 Act, 28,Yea, and when S. Paule was firſt called to his anſwere before the Emperor: the Chriſtians then in Rome, were ſo faint hearted, that they did leaue him alone, as he him ſelfe hath written to Timoth. 2. Timoth. 4. 2. Timot. 4.In prima mea defenſione, nemo mihi affuit, ſed omnes dereliquerunt me: non illis imputetur, &c. In my firſt defence, no man did take part with mee, but all did forſake mee: God grant that it bee not laid to their charge: but the Lord did aſſiſt & ſtrengthen me, &c. And this was more then thirty yeeres after our Sauiour Chriſt had ſent foorth his Apoſtles to preach.

If Peter were biſhop of Rome at y^e time that S. Paule ſpeaketh of in that 4. Cap. 2. Timoth. ſurely then, hee performed not the parte of a good biſhop, neither yet of a good chriſtian. For amongſt all, hee muſt needes bee one. And S. Paule ſaith that all did forſake him.

But let this paſſe. The eſtate of the whole Church was no better in thoſe daies: yea, it was not much better at any time, during the firſt 300. yeeres after Chriſtes aſcention. For when Conſtantinus the firſt chriſtian Emperor, began his raigne: Sylueſter, then biſhop of Rome, had not his aboade then in Rome, but made his dwelling place in ſome caue in a mountaine named Soracte, xx. myles diſtant from Rome, that ſo hée might bée more ſafe from the tyrannie of the Romaine Emperor. But when hee vnderſtoode that Conſtantinus, was likely to bee fauorable to y^e Chriſtians: hée repaired to y^e City. By this it may appeare, of what account the Romaine biſhops had bin, & what publike & open preaching of the goſpell there had bin, in the City of Rome during that time of the firſt 300. yeeres.

It appeereth in Hyſtories, that they had their places wherein they met, and had the preaching of the woorde & miniſtration of the Sacraments: but thoſe places were not ſuch as Saint Peters Church, which is now in Rome. For that Church, with the reſt of the Churches in Rome, were not then builded, as in Platina, and in other Hyſtories it appeereth.

By this, you may ſee what cauſe Caluin had to ſay that the Catholique Religion (which is the ſame that wee proteſtants doo now profeſſe) was practized for the ſpace of the firſt 300. yeeres after Chriſt.

From that time forward, Religion began to decline by litle, and litle, from that perfection that it had continued in vnderunder perſecution, and to grow towards that great decay that it came vntounto in the dayes of Bonifacius the third. Martin Luther therefore, and M. Iewell, with the reſt of the authors of the Apologie of the Church of England, had iuſt cauſe to ſay that it continued in the Romiſh church for the ſpace of the firſt foure, fiue, yea, ſixe hundreth yéeres after Chriſts aſcention: for the Romiſh church was not altogither fallen away from the Catholique Religion, before ſhee had taken vponupon hir the title of Antichriſt, which was in the dayes of Phocas the Emperor, at whoſe hands Bonifacius obtained the prophane title of vniuerſall biſhop, whereof Gregorie the firſt, ſurnamed the great, writeth thus.Grego. Epi. 66. Epiſt. 66. ad Mauricium imperatorem. Sed abſit a cordibus christianorum, nomen istud blaſphemiae, in quo omnium ſacerdotum honor adimitur, dum ab vno ſibi d…m…nter arrogatur. But, let this name of blaſphemie bee far from chriſtian p. 38hearts, wherein the honor of all Prieſts is taken away, whils one Prieſt dooth like a mad man, arrogate the ſame vntounto him ſelfe. And againe. Episto. 68. Grego. Epi. 68.Ad Iohn Epiſc. Constantinopol. Tu quid Christo, vniuerſalis ſcilicet Eccleſiae capiti, in extremi iudicij es dicturus examine, qui cuncta eius membra tibimet conaris vniuerſalis appellatione ſupponere? What wilt thou ſay vntounto Chriſt, that is, to the head of the vniuerſall Church (ſaith Gregorie to Iohn biſhop of Conſtantinople) in the triall of the laſt iudgement: which dooſt, by the name of vniuerſall, goe about to make ſubiect vntounto thy ſelfe, all his members? who can write or ſpeake more plainely in this matter, then this Gregorie hath written both to Mauricius the Emperour, and to Iohn Biſhop of Conſtantinople?

I hope therefore, you will take this for a ſtayed & certaine tale: and bée therewith ſatiſfied. Conſidering that after Conſtantine the firſt chriſtened Emperor, had endued the Church with ſome poſſeſſions, and ſo poyſoned the Church (as by a voice that was heard from heauen, it was ſignified, which voice vttered this ſpeach, Hodie datum est venenum in Eccleſiam, This day is the Church poyſoned) that poyſon did not preſently worke the effect, but by litle and litle. So that the change from the Proteſtants religion, to Poperie was not ſodaine (although meruailous) but brought to paſſe by leyſure, and yet with as much ſpéede as the Dragon could, by his members and miniſters bring it to paſſe. As for gaineſayers it lacked none: amongſt whom I thinke you will allowe Gregorie the firſt to bee one of the chiefeſt. Now therefore I require your promiſe, which is, to recant and yéelde, although you hauehave hitherto refuſed ſo to doo.