Answer to a Popish Antichristian Catholic, Offer 13 – Offer 14
The Thriteenth offer.
Offerer.
Thirteenth. I require of the learned Proteſtant to expreſſe what furniture, furdrance or cōmoditie to the honor & ſerurce of God, did chriſtianity, or any part of Chriſtendome receiue by his church or congregations? what temple or church did you build at any time for your aſsē bles, and ſeruice of God? what biſhopricks for the better gouernment of the church did you founde or procure? what vniuerſities, ſchooles, or colledges did you at any time erect for the maintenance of chriſtian doctrine, faith, and religion? when the learned Proteſtant ſhalbe able to prooue by eccleſiaſticall hiſtories, and old auncient writers, theſe things to be monuments of their conuenticles and priuate congregations, of their faith and religion, and not of the common knowne faith, religion, and Catholique church of Chriſt, then I ſhall in like maner yeelde, and recant, and not before.
Crowley.
If this Offerer had liued in the dayes of the prophets or of the Apoſtles, hée would hauehave kept a iolly ſtur with them: for none of them were builders of Temples, Synagogues or Churches, neither were they Founders of vniuerſities, ſchooles, or colledges. And yet was their faith and religion fruitfull, & ſo is ours, though none ſuch fruits as this Offerer ſpeaketh of ſhould ſpring thereout. And yet I doo know that theſe are good works: & I hope I ſhalbe able to prooue, that the Proteſtants Catholique church hath not bin, neither is ſlack in dooing theſe works when hability and oportunity may ſerue them.
If I might be ſo bolde, with M. Offerer: I would demaund of him, & require him to expreſſe, who it was that builded S. Peters church in Rome, and the reſt of the moſt auncient churches in that citie. I think he would anſwere with ſpéede, & ſay thus: it was Conſtantine the firſt chriſtened Emperor. If hée ſhall ſo ſay, he ſhal ſay truly: for ſo hath Platina and other more auncient Hyſtorians written. But here is the queſtion, whether this Conſtantine were a Proteſtant Catholike, or ſuch a Catholike as this Offerer is. For we hold that hee was a proteſtant Catholike, and this Offerer holdeth the contrary. The matter then reſteth vponupon proofe.
I doo thinke that I hauehave already prooued ſufficiently, yt Conſtantine liuing & raigning in the end of the firſt 300. yéeres after Chriſt, could not be an Antichriſtian catholike, as this Offerer is: bicauſe the great Antichriſt was not as yet ſpronge vp, although many Antichriſts (or falſe Prophets) were in the world, euen when ye Apoſtle Iohn worte his firſt Epiſtle, as in the 4. Chap. thereof it appeareth: but that great Antichriſt that S. Paule nameth the man of ſin. 2. Theſ. 2. did not begin to ſhew himſelfe in the world, before ye daies of Bonifacius the third, yt tooke vponupon himſelfe ye name & eſtate of the vniuerſall head of Chriſts vniuerſall church. And that was ye time wherein your Schiſmaticall church fell away from that true Catholike church, whereof Conſtantine was, and wée that beare the name of Proteſtants, now bée.
The biſhopricks alſo, that were appointed or founded, at any time within the firſt 600. yéeres after Chriſt, & all the Vniuerſities, Schooles, & Colledges, that were foūded with in that time, were founded & builded by proteſtant Catholiques. For although many corruptions were ſpronge vp in the Catholike church (whereof wée be) before the end of the firſt 600. yéeres (euen as the tares doo ſpringe vp amō geſt the good graine, before the time of Harueſt, & yet the field remaineth ſtill a corne field, & not a field of tares) yet ye church was ſtill Catholike, till the whole ſtate did profeſſe Antichriſtianiſme, & began to perſecute ſuch as continued in the profeſſion of the auncient & true Catholike religion, which is the ſame that wée doo now profeſſe, & you and your ſorte doo perſecute. Theſe hauehave not bin the worke of cōuenticles & priuate congregations (as it pleaſeth you to terme all the particuler churches of Chriſt, that refuſe to take the marke of the beaſt, and to acknowledge your Antichriſtian church to bee the knowne Catholike church of Chriſt) but they hauehave bin the fruits that hauehave ſpronge out of the ſame faith and religion, that was taught by Chriſt him ſelfe, & by his immediate Apoſtles, receiued, belieued, & profeſſed by ye firſt Catholike chriſtians, and is ſtill profeſſed by vsus and is fruitfull in vsus, when ability, and oportunity dooth ſerue.
In the daies of king Edward the ſixt, of bleſſed memory, who founded (in London) Chriſts Hoſpitall, for the education of fatherles infants, S. Bartholmews Hoſpitall in ſmithfield, and S. Thomas Hoſpitall in Southwarke, for ye curing of diſeaſed perſons, did not the proteſtant Catholikes make thoſe charitable prouiſions, & doo not they ſtill maintaine the ſame? This Offerer may remēber, that his Antichriſtian catholikes did (in the time of quéene Maries raigne) attempt to ouerthrowe thoſe foundations agayne.
Who were the founders of Chriſts Colledge, S. Iohns, & Trinitie Colledge in Oxforde, of Emanuell, & Marimagdalen, & Caius Colledge in Cambridge, did they not beare the name of proteſtant Catholikes that founded them? Many grammer Schooles alſo might be named, & diuers other prouiſions that proteſtant catholikes hauehave made, both for ye maintenance and increaſe of learning, and alſo for the ſuccouring of the poore and néedy.
If any tares doo ſpring vp amogſt this good graine: that hauehave bin ſowne by the enuious man, it is no fruit yt ſpringeth out of that good faith & religion that we profeſſe. If your word & promiſe (therfore) be any thing worth: thē I require you to doo ye part of an honeſt man, in yéelding & recanting.
The foureteenth Offer.
Offerer.
Fourteenth. Let the learned proteſtant name any one fellowſhip or company of belieuers in the whole Chriſtian world, that in all articles of faith, and religion be in one vnity, in one meaning and beliefe, and contented alſo to captiue & ſubmit their ſeueral meanings to the iudgment of their prelats and ſpirituall gouerners, and of one chiefe head & paſtor amongſt them in all Eccleſiaſticall things and cauſes: let (I ſay) the learned proteſtant name any one company thus agreeing amonge themſelues, and thus humbly affected in Chriſtian faith and religion, ſauing onelyonly the holie and bleſſed fellowſhip of the common knowne Catholike church of Chriſt, and I will then recant, and not before.
Crowley.
Vnderſtanding by the holy & bleſſed fellowſhip of the cō mon known Catholike church of Chriſt (as I am aſſured yt you doo) that Antichriſtian church that you are of: I cōfeſſe that there cānot any one fellowſhip or cōpany of belieuers in ye whole chriſtian world be named, yt is ſuch a fellowſhip or cōpany, as you would hauehave the learned proteſtant name vntounto you: for in very déed, there is not one fellowſhip or cō pany of belieuers in ye whole world, ſo fooliſh, as to vēter ye ſaluation of their foules, vponupon ye iudgmēt of other men: but only that fellowſhip whereof you are. But I doo vtterly deny ye fellowſhip to be ye knowne Catholike church of Chriſt, and am bold plainely to affirme, that it is the malignant & curſed church of Antichriſt, & the filthy ſynagogue of ſatan.
The knowne Catholike church of Chriſt (whereof wée hée) dooth agrée in one vnity, & in one meaning & beliefe, in all the Articles of the chriſtian faith & religion. Yea, & wée all (with that whole Catholike church) doo captiue & ſubmit our ſeueral meanings, to that rule of religion, that the holy ghoſt hath ſet downe in the ſcriptures, which rule wée doo know to be ſo perfect, that it néedeth no addition, alteration or change, that man can deuiſe. And as for one chiefe head & Paſtor, we acknowledge none amongſt men: being aſſured that our one onelyonly head Chriſt Ieſus, that hath promiſed to be with vsus continually euen to the end of ye world, neither is, nor will be from vsus, but is and ſtill will be with vsus, and dooth ſtill, and will (by the working of his holy ſpirite) inſtruct and leade vsus in the true vnderſtanding of that rule of our religion that he hath left vntounto vsus, ſo that wée doo not, neither ſhal we at any time ſtand in néede of any ſuch chief heade or Paſtor, as this Offerer ſpeaketh of.
As for Prelates & ſpirituall gouerners, we hauehave, ſuch as bée able to breake & miniſter vntounto vsus, the ſpirituall foode of our ſoules, as well by preaching & expounding vntounto vsus that rule of our religion, as by miniſtring the ſacraments yt our ſauiour Chriſt hath ordained, & commaunded to bée vſed in his Church. To theſe wée giuegive credit, ſo longe as wée ſée yt they ſwarue not from that rule, that both they and wée are bounde to followe, and they doo not deſire to hauehave credit any further. And as touching their example of life, wée doo followe it, ſo far foorth as wée ſée that they followe Chriſt, and no further. For S. Paule did not wiſh the Corinthians to follow him further, then they ſhould ſée that hée followed Chriſt. If you bée not obſtinately bent, to ſtand to your takling, againſt all reaſon, and chriſtian knowledge: this that I hauehave héere written, may ſuffice to mooue you to recant, although hitherto you hauehave refuſed ſo to doo.