The Confutation of the Misshapen Answer to a Wicked Ballad, Part 8 – Part 10
¶The confutacion.
Here you wyll hange your selfe and aske me no leaue, you wyl not walke out of the reache of the proclamacion. You wyll styll be sayeing that scripture denieth, and denie that scriptur affirmeth. I am sorie that I was not of your counsayle before you published your answere, for if I had I woulde hauehave shewed you thys daynger before. Well nowe it is to late, for I am sure you can not stop it but it wyll be shewed to the maiestrates, and then you knowe theyr charge alredie. The best counsayle that I cā geue you now, is to make haste and recante. For so shall you yet saue some parte of your honestie though it be but a verie little.
You saye no christen mā doth honour br…ade and wyne Hitherto you say… …rue, for to honour breade and wine, is the worke of an infidele. But then you shewe a good, cause whye men honour not breade and wine. because the… is none to be honoured.
Here is occasion offered of moe questians then euer you woulde be able to solute euen with the helpe of all your secrete counsalours I myght aske you what thynge that is which the bodily eie seeth, that the hande feleth, that the taste discerneth, that is broken, that wa…th …a…mye when it take… weate, that will putrifie and rotte if it be kept longer tyme then breade maye endure, finally what that is whych must be burned when it is muldie so that▪ the stomak abhorreth it, I am sure you wyll not saye it is the bodye of Christe, for that is not nor can not be otherwyse sene wyth the bodilie eie) thē as it was, is and shalbe, in the fourme of man it can not be broken, for it is impassible, it can not wa… slymye nor clammye, for it is purified frome all slymie nature, it can not putrifie, for it is wt out all corruption, it can not be burned▪ because it is immortalle. But here you wyl say that you hauehave allredie answered to these questians, It appeareth (you saye) to be breade or wyne but fayeth defyneth an other maner of thynge. That is that whole Christe as there, and that the godhead also is ioyntlye knytte vntounto the same Christe beynge there, so that of duitie we muste ho…our hym in these formes Then note you in the margent, Blessed be they that beleue and se not. Wher you fal…ifie the texte, whych hath. Blessed are they that sawe not and b…leued, spoken in reproch of the herd belyue of Didimus that woulde not beleue the resurrection of hys maister Christe by the reporte of them that sawe hym risen (not wythstandynye he knewe that Christe had promised before hys death that he woulde rise agayne the thirde daye) but sayed he woulde firste se the fastening of y• nayles in his handes and put his finger in the holes and his hande into hys syde: yer he woulde beleue. But when he had sene and confessed sayeinge. My Lorde and my God: then Christe sayed vntounto hym. Because thou hast s…ne me Thomas, thou hast be leued. Happy or blessed are they that sawe not and beleued▪ meaneyng therby the fathers and prophetes of the olde lawe whiche sawe hym not, wyth the bodily eie, and yet beleued al that they writte of hym concerninge his cominge in the fleshe whiche Thomas woulde not b…leue tyll he sawe it.
Thus you declare your knoledge in the scritures to be but base, as theyrs is that are of your counsayle. But nowe let vsus returne to yo…r answere. It appeareth to our eie (you saye) to be breade and wyne but fayth defineth whole Christe to be ther by his powre diuine Here you speake subtyllye. You thynke you hauehave plentie of startynge holes in thys piece of your answere. Fayth defyneth (you saye) that whole Christe is ther by his powre diuine so y• if we woulde charge you wt the proclamatiō and saye that you affirme the natu…all, reall▪ and to …all presence of Christe God and man fleshe blude and bones, toth and naiale and all together: then you wyll saye no syr▪ I mente no suche thynge. He is ther by hys powre diuine euen as he hath promised to be with his church vntounto the ende of the world. You are answered Not yet frende hogherde. For thys presence that you speake of whiche Christe promised to hys sayethful is an inuisible assistence of g…ace as appeareth by the circumstaunce of the text where thys promise is mencioned. For after he had geuen them in commaundement to preache vntounto all nacions, and to baptise them in the name of the father the sonne and the holy gost …achinge them to kepe all thinges that I hauehave geuen you commaundement: he sayed Beholde I am wt y…u euen vntounto the ende of the world meaneinge none other thynge then he did whē he sayed wher so euer to or thre be gathered together in my name, ther am I in the middes of them That is to saye, be you neuer so fewe in number, be you neuer so little regarded of the worlde and worldelye wys…: feare not to t…stifie and wytnesse my trueth vntounto all nacions baptiseynge and teachynge them to kepe all thynges that I hauehave commaunded you, not your owne dreames, not your own phantasies for then you go in your owne name and▪ not in myne, and be holde I am wyth you all the dayes euen to the ende of the worlde, I wyll confounde your enimies, they shall not be able to re…iste the spirite that shall speake in you I my selfe whych am all one wyth my father wylbe continua…ly wyth you.
Thus you se (frende Hoggarde) that thys pre…ence of Christe with hys churche is not anatural and inuisible presence vnderunder a visible forme, as my Lorde of Wynchester teacheth you, but it is a mercifull assistence of, the immense, and in comprehencible godheade wych is presente in all places, but assistent to his electe onelyonly. So that if you wyl not hauehave Christ naturally, really and carnally presēt: you must not say… that whole Christe is ther that is to saye God and man, for so (as saynt Augustine witnessethe wt expresse wordes) he was on the earth and not in heauen …where he is nowe, in as muche as he was man) whan he sayde. Noman ascendeth into heauen, but onelyonly the son of man whyche is in heauen and dyd also des…ende frome heauen. One persone (saieth the same Augustine) is …oeth God and man, and boeth these natures are bu… one Christe, by y• he is God, in al places, but by that he is man, he is in heauen. And yet more playnelye. One and the selfe same Christe (sayeth Fulgentius accordynge to hys humane substaunce, was absente frome heauen whē he was vponupon erth and left the earth when he ascēded into heauē
By thys you maye perceiue howe farre you are deceiued in your opinion of y• total presence of Christe in the sacrament. But because I woulde gladlye you shoulde forsake your ex…oure and embrace the trueth: I shall open vntounto you one other doubt that myght chaunce to trouble your mynde.
The godheade you saye is ioyntely … to the manhode and can not be seperate whervpon you conclude that as the one is i…mensse and fylleth all places so muste the other neades be. To thys obiection, saynct Augustine shal make you answere. … foloweth not sayth he that the thynge that is in god, shoulde be in all places as he is. For the scripture doeth moste truely reporte of vsus, that we do lyue, moue and …e in hym: & yet be we not▪ in all places as he is. But man is in God after one sor… and god in him after an other sorte▪ After a certayne propre and peculiar sorte. The māhode therfore being ioyntly knit vntounto the godhead is not in all places as is the Godheade, but the scripture teacheth and we do constantly… beleue: that the manhode of Christe haueinge finished the purpose of hys comminge in the fleshe (that is to saye offered hym selfe one the crosse for oure redemption and risen agayne for oure iustification) is ascended into heauen and sitteth at the right hande of God the father whence he shall come to iudge the quicke and deade. As for hys presence in the sacramēt we beleue it to be suche as it is in vsus hys faithfull membres whom Paull calleth hys membres, of hys fleshe and of hys bones. And yet is not the presence of Christ in vsus suche, that we ought therby to be honored as goddes:… No more is he so presente in the sacramente that it ought to be honoured as God.
Thus largely hauehave I spoken of thys matter because I desire more to wynne you to Christ then to confounde you before the world For If I had not desyred your cōuerciō frō y• Romeyshe waye: I woulde hauehave opened your fonde assercions whrein you af…irme that ther is nother breade nor wyne in the sacramente thoughe boeth appeare to our eie, and so hauehave lefte you to your selfe. It had ben easie so to hauehave done. Boeth for that the eie is the instrument that God hath geuen to iudge decerne and knowe al visible thynges by: and also because the elect vesse of God Paule, and our… sauiour Christe hym selfe, doe call them boeth breade and wyne, and that euen after the consecracion (if ther be any) as I shall herafter proue more at large.
The Ballad.
Wonderful syghtes, I coulde declare
I loked in the pixte Dome gods I sawe there
Made of the priests, Which sinners are
Liuinge amyse.
The answere
Wonderfull it is vntounto a pagan…
How a pure virgyn shoulde bring forth a child
But easye it is to a Christian man
Which hath this, how from his reasone exild…
Obeyinge to fayeth on which he doeth bylde
So if this man woulde reasone captiuate
He shoulde not ieste after thys folishe rate
Dome gods it pleaseth thys wre…ch them to cal
The hostes he meaneth which are consecrate
Because they speake not nor be sene vital
Ergo, they be dome: o beaste intoxicate
Yf Christe coulde be sene ther after that rate
That he walked here, wher were thē thy faith
Wher eye, may perswade, faith hath no merits