The Confutation of the Misshapen Answer to a Wicked Ballad, Part 14 – Part 31
¶The confutacion
Here you answere as though Paule in the… vii. to the Hebrues where he speaketh of Chri…es separacion frome synnes had ment none other thynge but his bodily ascencion into heauen. A…d then you der…de the authours conclusion, as though it were no sufficient prou… nor good argumente to say, he can not be made wyth synfull handes because he is ascended. As who shoulde saye though he be asended, yet is he here …yl. And for the makinge of him with sinful handes: you saye that neuer man sa…ed nor defended it, nor doeth at thys tyme saye or defende it. In verie dede you are now al a shamed to say it, & far vnable to defend it. But y• it hath bene preached I wt many other which are yet on liue can wittnesse, And y• it hath ben writen, resorte to the answere that Anthonie Gylbie made to my Lorde of Whinchesters diuillishe detection: and you shal lear…e that he hath halfe a lease that he tar… out of a boke in Lyncolne minister, wherein are written these words in latine. O sacerdos, nonne creauite, …t dedi tibi potestatē creandi me? Quare si non sacrificas etc. That is to saye (to your ledwe▪ vnderstandinge) O prieste, hauehave I not created the and geuen the power to create me? Wherefore if thou do not sacrifice. &c. If you credite not thys, resorte to the cau…iles of the masse & then learne of some experte maister of grammar, what thys latine word Conficere, signifieth. I shal recite you one of y• cautyles to geue you occacion to desire some prist of your acquayntaūce to shewe you y• residue, for I am sure you dare not come so nygh the secretes of the masse your self for feare of losing your sight. Si ante …ō sacratio…em sanguinis (sayth the cau…il) per…ipiat aquam non esse in calice: debet statim apponere et conficere. That is to say. If he (mean…yng the priest) do verceyue before the conse…acion of the bloude that ther is no water in the chalice, he muste in continent put wat…r into the chalice & make it. If this be not the significaciō of …, in this place: then take your pen in hand and declare the meaninge of this …a… …yle, and the other which hauehave the same worde In the meane time I shall perswade my selfe that you thinke nolesse (what so euer you say) but y• by the …reathinge out of the wordes vponupon the breade, the priste make…h it the bodie of Christe and th… wyne his bloude. For you say it is a trueth auowed and holden of all christiā …, that after the wordes spoken ther is christe… flesh that for vsus was broken. But let thys matt…r passe we hauehave som what to saye concerninge the … of Paule, Seperate …rō syniners, … he whole course of Paules epistle to y• Hebrues is none other but to proue that al the ceremonies and sacrifices of the law were but …ha… owes of Christ and his one oblacion once offered for al, and that the leuites, high priestes and …y shope… (who had nede to offer sacrif…ce for them selues) coulde neuer take awaye syn by theyr sacrifices. And after many wordes and strong argumentes aplyed to the same purpose, he sayeth. It was conuenient and meete that we shoulde hauehave suche an high pri…ste or bishope, holye, innocent vndefiled, segregate from s…nners and made higher then the heauēs not haueinge nede (as the priestes hauehave) dayely to offer, fyrste for hys owne synnes and then for the synnes of the people. For that he dyd once in offer…ing hym selfe. The law appointed men priestes. &c.
Now se what it is to be seperate from sinners and to be hygher then heauenes Forsoth, not … be after the sorte of synfull priestes whiche entred into sancta sanctorum once in the yere wyth the bloude of gotes and … to … the tabernacle not made wyth mans hāds, that is to saye the true tabernacle whych god made and not man the eternall couenaunte an Image wherof God commaūded Moyses to make the materiall tabernacle Into thys tabernacle dyd Christe enter offeringe vp hym selfe once for al therby finisheynge the rede…ysion of the synn…s of the worlde and nowe sitteth at the ryghthande of God hys father for euer. Wherefore sinful handes can in no wise make hym, No they can not handle nor touch hym he is seperate from sinners He is none of those byshopes or priestes whiche did yerely sacrifice and yet remayne vponupon y• areth styll and after theyr death rotted in the grounde, for hys fleshe sawe not corruption but rose agayne from the deade and was by the godheade takē vp into heauen and ther sitteth at the righthād of his father sep…rate from synners.
But here you thinke your selfe a subtyle s…phister & able to confound your selfe (I iudge you by your counsalours whome I know well inough) for I am sure you will saye as your counsaylours do, that for as muchas Goddes right hande is in scripture called his powre, and his power is in all places at …ncent muste nedes folow, that Christ settynge at the rygt… hande of the father must nedes be in al places at once, and per consequence in the sacrament… of the altare reallye and bodelye eu…n as he sitteth at the right hand of his father and ascended into heauen and shall come agayne at the last daye to iudge the worlde by feyre for so he …itteth at the right hand of his father which… you say is power. Think you these coū …lour… of yours could not if nede …er proue bi y• same … little Image or Idole syth gods powre is there present: But howe standeth thys wyth the consecracion by the vertue of the wordes spoken ouer the br…ade and wyne? If Christe be really present in all places then is he so at al tymes. Then I praye you tel me (to your cōsaillours I speake now… how the words chaūg the bread & cause real presēce of y• thing y• was ther before? By this your argumēt you proue y• we ought to honoure all, thinges y• wee se in the worlde wyth diuine honoure, because Christe is ther really present. Se whether you be not those same false prophetes that Christe gaue vsus waneyng of. For you saye lo here is Christ and …o ther is Christ But we a warned that we shal not beleue you Behold (say you) he is in the deserte beholde he is in the priuie chaumbres. But we knowe you wel inough.
¶The balad
Thou sayest by thy coninge that y• makest him
Who hath made of nothing Both y• & thi kyn
Heauen earth and al thynge, conteined ther in
What lye is thys
The answere
A great lye surely of your owne making…
Ye can do it well as here doth appere
It semyth that the diuill dyd kepe you waking
That so shamefull wil lye wythout fere
His seruaūte you are whose badge ye do bea…
The whych is lyeng, and our Lorde doth say…
That the diuell is father to lyers alwaye
¶The confutacion.
Well answered and muche to the purpose You ieste as thougt it were nothynge lyke the trueth that your priestes should saye or thinke them selues to worke thys feate by theyr con…nge. … shal s… that cunning is agreate thinge, and helpeth as much in this mattier, as quicke conue… aunce doth in ledgardemayne. For when qui… conue…ghaunce fayleth: the budget must serue. And so sayth your ca…tyles o… your actual habites, that is to say gestures, if they fayle, yet Christe the highe prieste shall playe the budget and helpe out wyth the mattier, so be that the intention…l habite be not loste. Be not ashamed of your maister and father therfor who is and euer hath hen the father of liars. y• diuel your good Lorde and maister, whoe kepeth you styl slepeinge in the drowsie dreames of your dearely beloued father of Rome.
¶The Ballad.
Thou wylt say with spede, It is not our acte
The worde in this ded, taketh effecte
Wyth the I Prosede, that thus dooste obiecte
Answere me to this.
The answere.
The priestes that do say it is not our acte
But god by the word is worker of all
They that so hath sayd no …rue iugemēt lack…
For so it is as after proue I shal
The priest by authority spiritual
But as a minister doth execute
And god his creature doth ther transi…ute
☞The confutation▪
You saye you wyll proue here after that those priestes lacke no true iudgemente which hauehave …ared that it is not theyr acte to make the bodie and bloude of Christ, of breade and win… And thus you say y• the prieste doth but execut… by authoritie spirituall as a minister, and God it i… (you saye) y• doth his creature … Clarkly handled and lyke a man wel … in the Scriptures. They lacke no true iudgement, but wherin I pray you? In the scriptur… you wyl saye. I deny it. For a great numbre of them you speake of, hauehave no true iudgement in the scriptures. Yea, they scarsely knowe whether there be any scripture or not. Wel, graunt they do knowe that there be scriptures. Yet cā not this so true iudgement of theirs be in them for Scripture knoweth no suche transmutation. Wherin is it then that these men hauehave so true iudgement? It is in por…ouse and Miss all matters, I am sure, that you meane. For therin hath bene their most studie. Wel they lacke no true iudgemente, you saye, for so it is euen as they say, whych thyng you wyll proue, in thys sort I trowe. Bycause the Priest doth by authoritie spirituall, execute as a Minister, and Christ doth transmute his creature. A sira, here is pithy geare, and stronge argumentes. Your wordes sowne as much as if you should saye, it is so, and whi is it so? Forsoth because it is so. I would all the subtile Sophisters of Oxford and Cambrige, would prynte these your argumentes in their myndes, and by occation therof, enlarge the limyttes of their arte. For in all their subtilties, they fynde no suche subtiltie as yours is.
But in that you say that the priest executeth and God transmuteth: a man myght demaund you this questiō. Whether of these two, is the chiefe workeman, the priest or God? Your olde fathers of Italie would say the priest, for they would alwaye hauehave the most worthy first named. But what shall we say to the matter? Is not the priest the chiefe workeman? Yes truely, in mine opinion, for he receyueth all the monye for the worke when it is done. Yea, & God neuer medieth with any transmutation, tyl the priest set hym a worke. Yea, and when any mā setteth the priest on worke, and couenaunteth with hym for certayn wages. God must wayte at an inche that there be no let when the priest wyl hauehave his trinckets transmuted. It shalbe best for you therfore, …her to sai that the priest dothe all hymselfe, or else let the priestes from hensfurth, execute nomore tyll God byd them, and when the worke is finished, let God playe the chiefe workman, and receiue money for the whole.
¶The Ballade.
What word hast y• n…ddy, Wherwith Christ
Of bread his body, As y• dost crake (did make
Wyth all thy studye, An answere …ake
And tell me this.
The answere.
Without great studye thanswere is made
Me thynke ye presume very hye
This is my body Christ playnely sayde
You dare be so bolde to saye he doth lye
Not so syr, say you that worde say not I
Yet doth your wordes proue, syr bi your licēce
That to Christes wordes ye geue no credence.
¶The Confutacion,
☞ An answere (you saye) is made withoute great study. And so say I, a fol…s bolte is sone shot out. Then answer you after this sort. Methinke …say you, that you presume very high to tel Christ that he lieth, whē he sayth, this is my body. And than you answere in the persone of th… authour, sa…yng, Not so sir, saye you, that word say not I And then you thinke to … hym kyndelye. Your wo…des sir, saye you, by youre licence, shewe that to Christe you geue …. But nowe syr wyth yo…re licence I shall wyth greate studye declare vntounto yo… that the authour gyueth a greate deale more credite to Christes wordes then you do. Thys is my bodye sayth Christ, when he had diuided breade amonge hys disciples, declareinge therby the vnitie of all them that shoulde beli…ue in hym, his misticall bodie and mēbres the church and congregacion of the faythfull: and that all these faythful shoulde be partakers of all that he should deserue in that bodie which he had takē of y• immacula…e virgine, euen as ther were partakers of that bread which they had eaten.
Thus do we credite Christes wordes which you credite not for when he sayth, thys is my bodie, you …ynd hym to chaung the substaunce of breade with those wordes or else you comp… hym but a found… talker for you saye that before those wordes be spoken the breade is but breade, and so you compel Christ in transmute hys creature in hys Apostles handes, mouthes or healies For certen it is that Christe had deliuered it before he spake those wordes. And cō cerninge the wyne Marke sayth, that thei had al dronken therof before the wordes wer… spoken so that here you are driuen into a straight other you must say that Christ had some oth… cast to transmute his creature then you know… of, or else that he transmuteth none at all. For I am sure you wyll not saye that he deliuered it before it was transmuted.
¶The ballad.
Hoc est corpus Meum, you bryng
Wher wyth ye clocke vsus, Under your wyng…
But for your purpose, It serueth nothynge
Who seyth not thys?
☞The answere
Hoc est corpus meum fyrste Christe in brough…
And to all hys apostels gaue the power
… ministers to do, that him selfe wrought
By the wordes spoken to them at that houre
Which wordes are strōger then castel or …owr
And so shall enduer vntounto the laste daye
When all gods enemies shal vanyshe awaye
☞The confutacion
Not much vnlyke is thys your Answere, vntounto the answere that Cayph…s gaue in the coū sayle house at Ierusalem when the hygh priestes and byshops consulted howe to brynge Christ to confucion. It is expedient, quoth he▪ that one dye for the people, l…st that al y• whole nacion shoulde perish, meaneynge that it were …uche better that Christe, beynge a seducer; …houlde suffer deathe, then that all the people …houlde by hys doctrine be seduced and perishe. But yet hys wordes were true in an other meaninge, that is. That it was expediente for one to dye to redeme the synnes of the people for other wyse the whole people shoulde hauehave perished, Euen so in your answere you meane …hat Christe dyd firste brynge in these wordes Hoc est corpus meum, to the intente to turne the breade into his bodie by the vertue of the same wordes, and that he gaue hys disciples power to do the same bi the pronouceing of the sam wordes which your sayd meaning is verie false as Caiphases was but in an other meanynge it is verie true that you say.
Christe was the fyrste that brought in these wordes Hoc est corpus meum. And he gaue his Agostl…s power, yea commaunded thē to do▪ the thynges that he hym selfe had done. But herein lieth all the mattier. What it was that he had done, Chaunged bread into hys bodie, say you. But the Euangelistes say… that he hadde deuided bread and … amōgest his discipl… And these wordes are stronger then either castell or tower, and shall endure euen to the last daye, when all you goddes enimies shall vanishe a waye.
¶The ballad.
To be the worde, Naimely of giuing
Which christ our Lord, Spake to his beleueing
Disciples at borde, as they were sitting
Their faith to encrease
The answere
Christe promest his disciples before
That the bread that he would geue to them al
Was his fleshe which he for euermore
Would giuegive for the life of al men mortal
Firste, at his maundy by power supernal
He fulfilled his promise geuing than truely
To them his owne pure natural bodie
Secondly Christe on the cro…se him selfe gaue
In his one bodi as he walked here
And so suffred ther al man kinde to saue
But at his maundy as it dyd apere
He gaue the same body, but this in minde bere
Not as on the crosse, rightely to define
But vnderunder the forme of pure bread and wine
☞The confutacion
☞Here you thinke to shew a point of great learneing and knowledge. Christ promised before, you saye, that the breade which he should geue was his fleshe.
And this promise you saye, he fulfy…led firste at hys maundye, where he gaue them hys verie naturall bodye, and secondly one the crosse but at the last you adde as it were, a correccion of your former wordes, and saye. Not at the maundye as on the Crosse, but vnderunder the fourmes of breade and wyne.
☞Well, then Christ … … crament… about two yeres before he dyd institute it. Y…a marye saye you. And I praye you what sayed he? For soeth these verie wordes. The breade that I shal geue you, is my fleshe. … sy…a, …owe you hauehave vsus at a shrwede baye, Christe tolde hys Disciples longe before that the breade whiche he woulde geue them was h…s fleshe, and vppon thys Prophecie dyd in verie dede giuegive theym'breade at his maundye. Howe can it be then but that thys breade was his flesh… … Who is able to with stand this reason, thought… you? Forsoeth euerie one that sauoureth those thynges that be of the spirite of God.
And if you wyll apply your selfe a whyle, I shall teache you to wythstand it also. And first I shal demaunde this questian was not christe as well able to perfo…me his worde then as he was at the tyme of his maundye? Yese forsoeth. For he had before that tyme fedde fyue thousand and mo…, with .v. barley loues and .ii …ishes▪ And did he not say as much of the bread then as he did at his maundie? Yese marie say you▪ for he sayd these plaine words. The bread that I shal gyue you, is my fleshe. A syra thē I se well this bread was not to be traunsmuted (as you cal it) whē Christ came to the maundy for that was done two yeres before. For I am sure you wyll not saye Christe lyed when he sayed the breade that I shal geue is my fleshe, for if you woulde, your former wordes should be tourned to your… reproche. But here youre counsayloures perchaunce wyl now geue you counsayle to renne to intente of Christe when he speake those wordes and to saye that he intended not then … the bread… … dyd after warde. And that is true for he ment nothynge lesse then the sacrament in those wordes. But if you once enter into the intent, thē must we hauehave libertye to declare Christes intēt when he distributed the breade sayeinge thys is my bodye. And then I doubt not but your intent wyll be proued a …olyshe intent, when you saye that Christe gaue hys naturall bodie vntounto his disciples two maner of wayes, that is to saye fyrste in fourme of breade, & agayne on the crosse. For the Scripture wytnesseth that Christ was alwayes founde in the fourme of man, and verie man in all poyntes (synnes onelyonly …cepted) and therfore coulde he no more be in the fourme of breade then we maye. And it is as well to be gathered of the scriptures that the priest …ourneth the bread into his owne bodye when he sayeth thys is my bodye: as that Christ did by the same words chaūg it into his.
¶The ballad.
He is but a beast, knowyng ryght nought
Which saith that hoc est, Are wordes to make ought
Thys is manyfest, In a wyse mans thought
Wher knowledge is.
The answere.
He is but a beast I maye saye ryght wel
Whiche wyll saye that God who is almighty
In sayeinge, thys is, dyd not truely tell
That, that he coulde do, but rather did lye
What …east is he this, that dare playne deny
Yf god say, this is, it is not so sayeth he
Because reason wyll not ther to agre
What and if God wylde a thynge done to be
Abou… course of nature and yet god woulde
That mā shoulde do it thoughe no word had he
But onelyonly a deede as Moyses olde
… him lay downe the … he dyd hold
Whiche when he had done it was a serpente
Then taking it by the tayl as is told
Yt turned to a rodde euen continent
God sayde to Moyses this shoulde be y• sygne
To declare his power before kyng Pharao
The whiche after he dyd by the power deuyne
Wythout anye word that scripture doth show
This doth your hygh reasō cleane ouer throw
That, hoc est, can not be words to make ought
Much more thē no wordes, ye wil say I trow
Chiefly being spoken by hym that al wrought
Yea spoken by hym, that I graunte saye you
Well, that obiection I wyll deferre now