The Plea for Infants and Elder People Concerning their Baptism, Answer to Mr Smythe
AN ANSWER TO Mr SMYTHES Epiſtle to the Reader, which he hath directed,
To every one that loveth the truth in ſincerity.
BY theſe wordes, it ſeemeth Mr Smyth would intimate, that his care is to mainteyne the truth, and that in ſinceritie he loveth the ſame, whereas in deed, he hath deſtroyed the faith, is become an enemy to the covenant of grace, & a perverter of the right wayes …f the Lord: and withall ſo confident in defence of his hereſies, that he …es to challendge a combate with all the Separation: belike to feare men …ith great words, and to boaſt with Rabſake, as if his forces were invin…ble: But what they are it wil appeare in this diſcourſe following.
In the Epiſtle it ſelf, firſt Mr Smyth ſeemeth to excuſe their mutabilitie in Religiō, ſaying: It may be thought moſt ſtrange that a man ſhould oft times change …s religion, and it cannot be accounted a commendable qualitie in any man to make …ny alterations, &c. this must needs be true (and we confeſse it) if one condition be …itted, that the Religion which a man changeth be the truth, for otherwiſe to change …lſe religion, is commendable, &c.
But Mr Smyth and his company have changed a true Religion for a …alſe, and therefore that can be no commendable qualitie in them: And …uch inconſtant perſons (as himſelf ſaith) cannot eſcape the deſerved imputation …folly or weaknes of iudgement therein. Thus out of his owne mouth pro…ouncing ſentēce againſt himſelf: For that alteratiō of him & his cōpany, …s not frō falſhood to truth, but the leaving of the truth (which formerly …hey profeſſed) & a taking up of error after error: firſt calling into queſtion, whether the ſcriptures being tranſlated into other tongues, were not the writings of men. Differenc. pag. 10. Then caſting the reading of them out of the worſhip of God, affirming that there is no better warrant to bring tranſlations of Scripture into the Church, and to read them as parts and helps of worſhip, then to bring in expoſitions, paraphrasts and ſermons vponupon the Scripture, ſeing all theſe are equally humane in reſpect of the worke, equally divine in reſpect of the matter they handle. Differ: pag. 10. And for the ſame cauſe, ſeparated themſelves from other Churches that did read and vſe the ſame in their publike meetings. After this, they diſſolved their Church (which before vvas conioyned in the fellowſhip of the Goſpel & profeſsion of the true fayth) & Mr. Smyth being Paſtor thereof, gave over his office, as did alſo the Deacons, and deviſed to enter a new communion by renouncing their former baptiſme, and taking upon them an other, of mans invention, bringing in an other Goſpel, beſides that which was preached to Abraham, Gen. 12, 3, & 17. 7. &c. Gal. 3, 8. And now againe, many of this new communion have ſeparated themſelves from the reſt, holding the error about the incarnation…f this new …aptiſed cō …union …ere are re…ayning as …is reported …t above …. perſons, …l the reſt …e runne in … further …rors. of Chriſt. An other ſort are excommunicate, namely M. Smyth & divers with him, for holding (as it is reported by ſome that were of them) that their new waſhed companie is no true church, and that there cannot be in a church the adminiſtratiō of baptiſme & other ordinances of Chriſt, without Officers, contrarie to his former judgment, practiſe & writings, & yet reſteth not but is inquiring after a new way of walking, (as the ſame perſons affirme) breeding more errors, as is ſtrongly ſuſpected, and by his manuſcripts partly appeares. Whereby it is manifeſt, that theſe men can not cleare themſelves of inſtabilitie & changeablenes in Religion, but are guilty of that inconſtancie that is worthy reproof and damnable.
Further he ſayth, For a man of a Turke to become a Jew, of a Iew a Papiſt, of a Papiſt a Proteſtant, are al commendable changes &c. ſo that not to change religion is evil ſimplie: & therefore that we should fal from Puritaniſme to Browniſme, and from Browniſme to true chriſtian baptiſme, is not ſimply evil in it ſelf, except it be proved that we have fallen from the true religion, &c.
Here Mr. Smyth would make the world beleeve (as it is the manner of al heretikes) that their alterations were goings forward to further truthes, and therefore commendable. But if their true Chriſtian baptiſme, (whereof they boaſt) prove a notable hereſie, (as it is indeed, & in this Treatiſe is proved) then his compariſon holds not, but rather their eſtate is like to thoſe in 1 Tim. 1, 19. that put away fayth & a good conſcience, and as concerning fayth, have made ſhipwrack. And that bring in damnable hereſies. 2 Pet. 2. 1. &c. denying the covenant of grace, and the lawful uſe of the ſcriptures, &c. to bring upon themſelves ſwift damnation, if God give them not ſpeedy repentance.
Next M. Smyth ſetts down the queſtions controverted, and hereafter anſwered, affirming that this controverſie is between them and the Separation, whereas he might as well have ſayd, betweene them and all chriſtian churches, that have been or are at this day: for it is not we alone that …ndemne theſe their hereſies, but both the ancient and moderne Chur…es, and vvriters in all ages, (as vvith one conſent) have oppoſed againſt …em.
But where he pretends the publiſhing of this controverſy, to be for the …ay of God the manifeſting of the truth to our owne nation, and the deſtruction of …man of ſinne, he geveth vsus to mynd how Satan hath bewitched his ſoule … beleeve that ſuch can be the effects of his heritical opinions. It is the …ollicy of the Divil to propound glorious ends, to ſuch as he ſeduceth, as … Evah and others, & teacheth his Miniſters to do the like, that by fayre & …attring ſpeeches, and ſhewes of good, they might more eaſily deceave the …mple. And therfore ſeing we are forwarned that there ſhalbe falſe Teachers …mongſt vsus, which privily ſhal bring in damnable hereſies, it behoveth vsus …o mynd the counſel of the Apoſtles, to try the ſpirits, 1. Ioh. 4. 1. And not …o be caryed about with every wynd of doctrine. Ephe. 4. 14.
Now happely, (ſayth Mr. Smyth,) ſome man wil wiſh that the controverſy had … with the Rabbies of the Separation, and not with Mr Clyfton, whome they ca…iate to be a weake man, vnable to deale in ſo great a controverſy: wel, let the Reader take notice that though it be Mr Clyftons pen, yet it is not onelyonly Mr Clyftons …ſe & def…nce, but his allegatiōs & Reaſons are the beſt plea of the greateſt Rabbies thē …elves, And if they can ſay better, they may now ſpeake, for by publiſhing anſwere to theire Reaſons, we do chalendge al the ſeparation in ſpeciall to the combate.
This Challenger would fayne have the world to take notice, that he deales with an adverſary that is too weak to try out this controverſy with him, & ſo to foreſtall mens judgments before ever they come to the reading of my anſwere. And becauſe he would not be ſeene to be the Author himſelfe of my diſgrace, he imputeth this report to the Rabbies of the Separation (as it pleaſeth him in his taunting maner to terme them) who (I am perſwaded) are guiltles thereof. But if any had ſo ſayd vntounto him in private, yet doth he in publiſhing the ſame, breake the bounds of love. For myne owne parte, whether any have ſo ſpoken or not, it ſhal not offend me, I knowe the Lord meaſureth his guiftes to every one as he wil. 1 Cor. 12. 8.—11. I praiſe God for that I have, and do not envy, but reioyce in the graces that God beſtoweth vponupon others, and pray that they may vſe them to his glory, and to edification. Notwithſtanding though Mr Smyth thinke me to weake to incounter with him, yet the Lord aſſiſting me, I meane not for all theſe his diſgraceful ſpeeches, to yeeld him the cauſe, or give back one foot from the defence thereof, knowing that the truth which I contend for: wil diſcover and convince his damnable errors: the which though he ſet a glorious ſhew vponupon (as a marchant of falſe wares) by miſapplying of Scriptures: yet wil the falſehood of them appeare, to al ſuch whoſe eies God ſhal open, to diſcerne between the truth and lyes. Moreover if I in my weaknes, make to appeare how vnconſcionably & untruly Mr Smyth dealeth againſt the truth: his glorious boaſting and Philiſtine valour, will have the more diſgrace, then if he had dealt with men of greater guifts: and God ſhall have the greater glorie, to foyl ſuch a warlike Champion with weak and baſe meanes.
As for my allegations and reaſons which he ſaith, are the best plea of the greatest Rabbies, &c. herein he both taxeth me and wrongeth them, me, as if I had bene but their pen man in my former anſwer; them, in ſaying my reaſons are their beſt plee, whereas he hath had neither conference with them, by ſpeeches or writing about theſe matters, ſave onelyonly with Mr Robinſon. And therefore ſo to ſpeak without triall, bewrayes but the bitternes of his ſpirit againſt them. Thus Mr Smyth preparing way for his great challendge, by pretending mine inſufficiencie, calles forth the Rabbies (as he termes them) to ſpeak, challendging the whol Separation to the combate: wheras a wiſe man would hauehave ſpared ſuch ſpeaches vntil he had ſeen the iſſue of his combate, already attempted: and not thus to provoke others, until he had greater likelihood of victorie. As for thoſe reverend men whom now he calles vpō for better, if they can ſay better, they hauehave already ſayd and written ſo much againſt his errors, as I am aſſured he wil never be able to anſwer, and when it pleaſeth him to reply, (if there be occaſion) I doubt not but as they have done, ſo the Lord will inable them to batter downe with ſpiritual weapons, his greateſt forces, that he ſhalbe able to raiſe againſt the truth.
And whereas Mr Smyth ſeemeth to inſinuate, that by his anſwering of my reaſons, he hath anſwered theirs, herein he is deceaved: for the Reaſons in my former anſwer, (be they what they are,) I acknowledge for mine own, (though written unto him without any purpoſe of publiſhing) if therfore weaknes be found in them, let it be imputed vntounto me, and neither to our Teachers, (who had no hand in ſetting downe thereof) nor yet to the truth it ſelf. As for his challenging of the whole Separation, and other his intemperate ſpeaches in his epiſtle, they bewray in him a malicious hart againſt our poore Church,) and puft vp with too loftie a conceit of his … ſtrength. Did ever any of the Prophets or ſervants of God thus chal…ge a combate with the Lords people? in deed ſuch braving ſpeeches …eeded from Goliath, 1 Sam. 17. 10. that defied the whol hoaſt of Iſ…; and from Rabſake. 2. King. 18. 23-25. againſt the Iewes: But …as never heard that an Iſraelite profeſsing the religion of God, vſed … proud chalendges, as this man doth.
I pray you Mr. Smyth, wherein hath the ſeparation offended you, or my wiſe wronged you, that you deſyre rather to quarrel with them, then with other Churches holding the ſame truth in this thing, agaynſt you? To the Elders and brethren were you moſt welcome, and glad they were of you, ſo long as you walked in the fayth with them. Why is it that you …e become their adverſary? is it becauſe they have rejected you, and your company for your errors, which you wilfully mayntayne? Alas, they muſt …o it, vnles they would become vnfaythful to God.
Next after this Chalendge, Mr. Smyth chargeth the ſeparation with a … conſtitution, miniſtery, worſhip and government, ſaying.
Be it knowen to all the Separation, that we account them in reſpect of their con…tion, to be as very an harlot, as eyther her mother England, or her grandmother … is. And although we held her a true church in our ignorance, yet now being better informed &c. we protest agaynſt her as wel for her falſe conſtitution, as for her falſe Miniſtery, worſhip and goverment &c. the falſe conſtitution is of infants baptiſed.
Concerning the conſtitutiō of a Church we do not hold that any viſible Church can ſtand onelyonly of infants, neyther that their baptiſme doth geve the being thereof 1. Seing there can be no baptiſing of infants, where there are not firſt Elder people, with whome they come vnderunder the covenant of God 2. Baptiſm is an other thing divers from the Church, Ephe. 4. 4. 5. and it maketh none to be the people of God, onelyonly it ſealeth vp to be his people, them that are ſo formerly by vertue of his covenant. 3. Els Turkes or Indians profeſſing the Popiſh Religion being baptized, ſhould be a true Church (for Mr. Smyth holdeth the †Charact. pag. 51.baptiſm of ſuch to be true baptiſm, if ſo they confeſſe their fayth & ſinns) 4. Then circumciſion ſhould have made the Sichemites a true Church (for that which baptiſm can doe now in conſtituting of a Church, circumciſiō could do then) wherfore I ſay, baptiſm is an ordinance of Chriſt geven to his Church to ſeale vp his covenant to his people: but is not that whol eſſential conſtitutiō therof. And therefore our baptizing of infants (if it were admitted to be vnlawful) can not make the conſtitution of our Church to be falſe, much les being the commaundement of the Lord, can it ſo doo. And thus Mr. Smyth fayleth in the firſt poynt of his charge. As for the other things he chargeth vsus withall, ſhall receave anſwere in their due place.
But here further he proceedeth to affirme. That no man can ſeparate from England, as from a falſe Church, except he alſo do ſeparate from the baptiſme of Engl. &c. Wherevnto he may be anſwered, that it wil not follow, that they which ſeparate from a Church ſtanding in apoſtaſie, or ſinne, muſt ſeparate from the baptiſm therein receaved, or yet from any other of Gods ordinances there retayned. We are commaunded to forſake the whordomes of Babylon, Apoc. 18. 4. but not to ſeperate from any ordinance of Chriſt that is found therein, ſave onelyonly from the polutions thereof. Yea Mr. Smyth cannot deny, that a Church ſtanding in Apoſtaſy, is to be ſeparated from, when the baptiſm therein received (if it be of ſuch as confeſſe their fayth and ſins) is ſtill to be retayned, for ſuch baptiſm, (ſayth he) i… true Baptiſm, though adminiſtred by Antichriſtians, Character p. 51. 2. Thoſe Iſraelits that ſeparated from Ieroboams Church (which ſtood in Apoſtaſy) & went to Ieruſalē 2. Cor. 30. 11. did not ſeparate frō their circumciſiō therin receaved: No more are we from our baptiſme, as afterward is proved. As for his Reaſon.
That the baptiſm of England cannot be true and to be reteayned, and the Church of England falſe and to be rejected &c. It is but as if he ſhould ſay, the circumciſion of Iſraell cannot be true and to be reteyned, and the Church of Iſraell falſe and to be rejected, I ſpeake of Iſraell being in Apoſtacy. And therefore thus I anſwere vntounto it, that baptiſm retayned in Rome and ſo in all Apoſtate Churches▪ is baptiſm, and is not to be repeated, as in the latter part of this Treatiſe, is proved. And ſeing Mr. Smyth holdeth thereCharacter. …ag. 51. may be † true baptiſm in an Apoſtate Church if they confeſſe their fayth, doth not he croſſe himſelf here to ſay, neyther can the Church of England poſſibly be falſe, except the baptiſm be falſe? Now if true baptiſm may be in an apoſtate Church as he affirmeth, then a Church may be falſe (that is apoſtate) & not baptiſm, by his owne reaſoning. Yet this man chargeth vsus with contradiction, vz. to ſay, England hath a falſe conſtitution, Engl. hath a true baptiſm. We hold baptiſm ſo to be true in an apoſtate church, as circumciſiō was in the …ate Church of Iſrael, & otherwiſe we do not affirm. Now concerning …ptiſing of infants, Mr. Sm. thus proceedeth, ſaying, It ſeemeth to vsus th… vnreaſonable hereſy, of all Antichriſtianiſm, for conſidering what baptiſm is: An … is no more capable of baptiſm then is any vnreaſonable, or inſenſible creature. …d then addeth 3. Reaſons agaynſt it, 1. from his owne deſcription baptiſm, ſaying: baptiſm is not the waſhing with water, but it is the baptiſm of …it, the confeſsion of the mouth, and waſhing with water, &c.
Theſe blaſphemous ſpeeches, againſt the ordinance of Chriſt bewrayeth …f what ſpirit this man is: Gods ordinance is a moſt vnreaſonable hereſie with …im, yea the moſt vnreaſonable of all Antichriſtianiſme. Thus iuſtifying all the …dolatries of the Papiſts and their deteſtable hereſies in compariſon of ba…tiſing of infants. Beſides his odious and blaſphemous compariſon, af…rming Infants no more capable of baptiſme, then the vnreaſonable and inſenſible …ures. So that in his judgement, a horſe, yea a block may aſwell be …aptiſed, as the children of the Church, whom the Lord of his free grace …ceiveth together with their parents, to be his by an everlaſting covenant, Gen. 17. 7. and therefore are holy, and capable of the bleſſing of Chriſt, 1 Cor. 7. 14. Ier. 1. 5. Luk. 1. 15. Mark. 10. 16. as hereafter is ſufficiently …ved. And therefore to compare theſe infants with vnreaſonable and inſenſible creatures, as touching the participation of Baptiſme, argueth the authour of ſuch compariſons, to be void of ſpiritual ſenſe and reaſon, and more to follow the corruption of his own hart in hatred againſt the truth, then to mind what he affirmeth.
Concerning his deſcription of Baptiſme and thoſe Scriptures which he quoteth for proof thereof, ſee them anſwered hereafter, pag. 94. where I have ſhewed, 1. that the baptiſme of the Spirit, is no part of that outward Ceremonie of baptiſme that is adminiſtred by man, but is the inward work of the ſpirit in the elect of God. 2. That the confeſſion of faith & of ſinns, is no part of the Sacrament of Baptiſme: ſeing the confeſſion of ſinns, is ſo often to be repeated, as we tranſgreſſe againſt the Lord, & likewiſe of faith, as we have occaſion adminiſtred vntounto us. And therefore baptiſme, which is given to be the ſeale of Gods covenant to his Church, is the baptiſing of the faithful and their ſeed with water, into the name of the father, and of the ſonne and of the holy Ghoſt. Mat. 3. 11. with Mat. 28. 19. & of this, infants are capable. neyther is their baptiſme folly, (as Mr Smyth ſayth) but it wil prove his fully to make mans confeſsion a part of the Sacrament, which oftentymes … hypocrical, (as it was in S. Magus) & to ſhut out of Gods covenant who… the Lord hath accepted. And it wil prove his folly to denye baptiſme to infants, becauſe they cānot performe ſuch actions, as in other reſpects are required of the elder ſort that are to be baptiſed, who alſo not having trāſgreſſed in like manner, therefore need not ſo to confeſſe. And it wil prove his folly, to deny that an infant can be baptiſed with the ſpirit: for ſo to ſay, is to deny, that an infant can be ſaved. But of theſe things hereafter.
His 2. Reaſon is taken from Iohns baptiſme, framed thus.
Iohns baptiſme was the baptiſme of repentance. Infants have not Repentance, and therefore can not have the baptiſme of Repentance.
To this Argument I anſwer thus, 1. That repentance is required of ſuch as have actually tranſgreſſed, not as the proper cauſe of baptiſme, but as a neceſſarie fruit of fayth, & condition of the Goſpel required of them, that being of yeares are to be received into the church: whether before or ſince Chriſts coming. But of the infants of the faythful, whether of thoſe that are newly received into the church, or of beleevers borne in the church, it is not ſo. Ergo &c.
2. Repentance was not required of the infants of the Iewes before they were circumciſed: no more is it to be required of our infants before baptiſme, theſe two Sacraments being the ſame in uſe.
3. If Baptiſme of repentance, be underſtood onelyonly of the tyme paſt, & not of the tyme to come, then is that a falſe expoſition of Iohns baptiſme. For as he taught that thoſe that came to be baptiſed ſhould repent: ſo alſo his baptiſme did preach a continual dying to ſinne, or practiſe of repentance▪ al our life long, Rom. 6. 4. And therefore though children cannot repent of actual ſinne, which they are not to do, they having not committed the ſame: yet is their baptiſme the baptiſme of repentance: ſeeing it preacheth continual mortification & repentance to the receivers thereof, which is one true uſe of baptiſme.
His third reaſon is from the teſtimonie of Tertullian & Euſebius. The words of Tertullian, (as Mr, Sm. himſelf hath engliſhed them) are theſe.
Therfore to deferre & not to haſten baptiſme, is more profitable for the condition diſpoſition & age of every perſon, but eſpecially as concerning yong children, for what▪ … there to bring ſureties into danger for the baptiſing of Infants, if there be no … of haſtening the baptiſing of infants. Seing the Sureties are diſabled often… to performe theire promiſe, both by reaſon of mortalitie, and of the evil diſpoſiti… ſ…e children, when they come to yeares, for whom they promiſed in baptiſme, &c. … Firſt, concerning Tertullian it is to be noted, that thus he writeth, …n he was fallen into the opinions of the Cataphriges or Montaniſts, … ſo held divers errors, as Auguſtine and others have obſerved out of … workes. And therefore being thus departed from the fayth; Let …e Reader judge if this man be a competent witneſſe in this caſe. Yet …th not this man affirme that infants were not baptiſed in his tyme, but …ther the contrary, in that he makes mention of Sureties for infants: ſay…g, what neceſſitie is there to bring Sureties into danger for the baptiſing of infants, …hich words do plainly argue, that the Church then uſed to baptiſe in…ts.
2. Agayne, that which he affirmeth was his owne private judgment …d his Reaſons are of no weight, as the bringing of ſureties into daunger, and … the ſuerties are diſabled oftentymes to performe theire promiſe &c. ſuch ſureties …ot being appointed of God. 3. P. Mart. Claſ. 4. ca. 8. affirmeth that …tullian denyed Baptiſm to yong men and yong widowes; and his owne …rdes here related, do ſeeme to intimate ſome ſuch like thing, in ſaying, …ferre and not to hasten baptiſm, is more profitable for the condition, diſpoſition and … of every perſon, And this he meaneth of others, then yong children. For …er he ſpeaketh of yong children, ſaying, eſpecially concerning yong children. … 4. Criſpen, State of the Church, pag. 47. 48. witneſſeth that Tertullian brought … extreeme vnction after baptiſm, the Sygne of the Croſse, offering for the dead, and …er the like dreames of the Montaniſts. Now if Tertullians judgment be …and agaynſt infants baptiſm, why not alſo for extream vnction the ſygne …f the Croſſe, and the like his errors, ſeing all theſe are fruits proceeding …om the ſame tree?
But thus this adverſary careth not who the witneſſe is, ſo he wil ſpeake in favour of his hereſy, let him be Montaniſt, Papiſt or what otherſoever.
But let it be further obſerved, that about Tertullians tyme and after, ſome deferred theire baptiſme, vntil they thought they ſhould dye, and ſo were not baptiſed vntil they fell into ſome great ſicknes, as Theodoſius & others. And this ſeemeth to be Tertullians error; as if baptiſme was for waſhing awaye of ſinnes paſt, and not to come.
Concerning that which Euſebius reporteth of Athanaſius his bap… of children in ſport, I have anſwered, pag. 109. and ſet downe reaſons … prove that thoſe children were not children of the church, but of ſome o… the heathen, which were inſtructed in the fayth of Chriſt by the church, but were not received into the communion of the ſame. Theſe are the two Auncients that M. Smyth produceth againſt us, whereof neither of the… affirmeth that the church did not baptiſe infants in thoſe tymes. Now to theſe two, I wil oppoſe other two Auncients amongſt many others, that do teſtifie that infants in their tymes and before, were baptiſed, viz. Origin, who ſayth, that the church received from the Apostles, to give baptiſme to infants. lib. 5. ad Rom. And Auguſtine de Bap. contra Donatiſt. lib. 4. cap. 23. who ſpeaking of the Baptiſme of Infants, ſayth, that which the whole church holdeth, neyther is ordeyned by councels, but alwayes hath been holden, we are to beleeve to be delivered by Apostolical authoritie.
The next corruption that the Separation is charged withal, is, to have a falſe ministerie. Now the Miniſters that we have are of Paſtors & Teachers, called thereunto by election of the Church, according to theſe Scriptures, Eph. 4, 9. 11, 12. Rom. 12, 7. 8. 1 Cor. 12, 28. Acts. 13, 1, 2. Revel. 1, 20. Nehem, 8, 1, - 8. Mat. 23, 2. Mal, 2, 7. Act. 14. 23. And practiſe of the primitive churches. And of this Miniſterie of Paſtors and Teachers M. Smyth himſelf approveth in his Principles, pag. 18. and in his Queſtions, and anſwers, pag. 8. printed this laſt year, 1609. he deſcribing the officers of the Church, devides them, firſt into Biſhops and Deacons, then the Biſhops into Paſtors, or Teachers, or Elders, and withal deſcribeth the Paſtor, to be a biſhop over one particular Church, excelling in the word of wiſdome. The Teacher, to be a Biſhop over one particular church, excelling in the word of knowledge. The Governour, to be a Biſhop of one particular viſible Church, excelling in wiſe government. Thus hath he written: and yet we having no other Miniſterie, then he himſelf approveth, chargeth us to have a falſe Miniſterie, not caring to croſſe himſelf, ſo he may utter his bitternes againſt the Church of Chriſt.
The 3. corruption this adverſarie chargeth us withal, is, falſe worſhip of reading books. This he ſayth, but proves it not. I will breifly ſet downe our practiſe, that the Reader may take notice, how unjuſtly we are charged. 1. For prayer & giving of thanks, that is publiquely performed by our Paſtor or Teacher, who invocate the name of God & praiſe him for his benefits …s the ſpirit directs their harts to conceive and giveth utterance, & …ithout the uſe of any book during that action, according to thoſe …ptures, Rom. 8. 26. 27. Eph. 6, 18, 19. Col. 4, 2. Act. 6, 4. Num. 6, 23. …4. - 27. Nehem. 9, 3, - 38. Ezra. 9, 5, - 15. & 10. 1. Ioel. 2, 17.
2. They read the holy ſcriptures, tranſlated into our owne language, …me two or three chapters or moe, as tyme wil ſerve, ſhewing briefly the …eaning thereof. Which is warranted by theſe Scriptures. Neh. 8, 3,—8. …eut. 31, 11. Act. 15, 21. Col. 4, 16. 1 Theſ. 5. 27. 1 Tim. 4, 13.
3. The Paſtor or Teacher taketh ſome Scripture, which they ordinarily …llow, and after the reading thereof, do expound and apply the ſame, by doctrine, exhortation, &c. to the further edification of the church: according to theſe ſcriptures. Luk. 4. 16. - 21. Act. 8. 35. & 13, 15. and 26. 7. … Tim. 4, 13. 2 Tim. 4, 2. And together with the preaching of the word, the Sacraments are adminiſtred after the rules of Chriſt, with prayer and thankeſgiving, according to theſe Scriptures: Mat. 28, 19. 1 Cor. 11, 23. &c. Act. 20, 7. &c.
4. Some of the Pſalmes of David, before and after the exerciſe of the …ord (the ſame being firſt read and opened by the Paſtor or Teacher,) is …ing of the whole church together to the praiſe of God, and our own edi…cation, according to theſe Scriptures: Eph. 5, 19. Col. 3, 16. Mat 26, 30. Act. 16, 25. Pſal. 95. & 92, 1. & 66. 2. & 89. 1.
Laſtly, each one as he is able, contributeth to the Treaſurie, whereby the Officers & poor of the church, are maynteyned: according to theſe ſcriptures. 1 Tim. 5, 17. 18. 1 Cor. 9, 7-14. Gal. 6. 6. 1 Tim. 5. 16. Luk. 2…. 1. 2 3. 4. Mat. 26, 9. 10. 11. Act. 2, 42. 45, 46. & 4, 34. 35. - 37. 1 Cor. 16. 1, 2. … Cor. 8, 4, 1…. And this is that worſhip and ſervice we publikely practiſe, which Mr. S. calleth falſe worſhip: how truly, let the Reader now judge.
Fourthly, cōcerning the Govermēt of our church, (which alſo this adverſarie taxeth) firſt, the Governours that we have, are ſuch as Chriſt hath appointed in his Church, viz. Paſtors, Teachers, & Elders, (and ſuch as M. S. †Principles. pag. 18. Queſtions & Anſwers pag. 8.affirmeth the Elderſhip to conſiſt of) the two former both teaching and ruling, the Elders imployed in the governmēt onelyonly, elected of the church for the overſeing, governing & guiding of the ſame, by the rules of Chriſt, whoſe offices and authoritie of Ruling, are warranted by theſe ſcriptures. 1 Tim. …. 5. 17. Rom. 12. 6. 7. 8. 1 Cor. 12. 28. 1 Tim. 3. 5. with Rev. 2. 2. 14. 15. Act. 20. 28. Heb. 13, 8. 24.
Agayn, as touching the Cenſures, we proceed therin after Chri…s … private faults vſing private admonitions, and for publike, open reb… cording to theſe Scriptures. Mat. 18. 15.—17. 1. Tim. 5. 20. 2. Cor. 2. 6. And when the offenders continue obſtinate in their ſinns after due admonition and conviction by the word of God; the Church being gathered together, the Paſtor, or Teacher or one of the Elders in the name & by the power of our Lord Ieſus Chriſt pronounceth the ſentence of excōmunication agaynſt them, all the brethren conſenting, according to theſe Scriptures. Mat. 18. 17.—19. 1. Cor. 5. 3. 4. &c. 1. Tim. 1. 20. And if the excomunicate do repent, he is with the Churches conſent received agayne into the cōmunion therof, by ſome of the Governors according to theſe Scriptures. 2. Cor. 2. …7.—11. Mat. 18. 18.—20.
What Mr. Smyth can fault in this or in any other of our practiſes, he may at his leaſure diſcover the ſame, if he be not already ſatiſfied.
Now beſides theſe falſe imputations, it pleaſeth Mr. Smyth to vtter agaynſt this Church many vncharitable and reprochfull ſpeeches: wiſhing alſo, As the Tirant wiſhed concerning the people of Rome, that all theire heades were joyned into one &c.
To paſſe by his tart and bitter ſpeeches unbeſeeming a profeſſor of the Goſpell, concerning his wiſh, I do certifie him thus much, that if it were granted, that the Separation had but one head, his woodden ſword of mans doctrine, wil never be able to ſmyte it of. Wel may he cary the Tyrants mynd, but for his wiſh, I truſt he ſhall fynd a like effect therof, as the Tyrant did of his, who contrary to his expectation, found the people of Rome not to have one head, but many hands to ſmyte of his head: So this wiſher ſhall, fynd that the Separation hath many hands to convince his abominable errors.
And whereas he deſyreth the Separation that they wil not in craftines withdrawe from the combate, as hetherto they have done in the matter of the Tr…nſlation, Worſhip, and Preſbyterie, &c. He himſelfe now knoweth that he hath anſwere to all theſe things, and if any delay hath bene herein, it was not any withdrawing through craftines, as he falſely chargeth vsus, but we ſaw him ſo mutable and inconſtant, and his latter writings to overthrow his former, that his owne workes would be a ſufficient confutation thereof: And now that there was ſo great occaſion of anſwere, and that he ſo inſulted vponupon the differring therof, he hath his anſwere geven him. For … his ſpeeches, of charging and challendging vsus to the defence of …rors, I hope he wil ſtay his penne henceforth from ſuch vanitie, ſeing …e not aſhamed, or yet neglect to vndertake the defence of that truth … profeſſe, and to manifeſt that he is a defender of errors and not we, as …e ſcanderouſly reporteth of vsus.
Furthermore, Mr Smyth requires of the Separation, and of all men, not … impute vntounto them, The denying of the old Teſtament, the Lords day, the …ſtracy, and humanity of Chriſt. Why this requeſt ſhould be made, I know …ot, vnles they would beare the world in hand, that they are not taynted …ith theſe errors, which other anabaptiſts doo hold. Concerning the …ſt of them, Mr. Sm. affirmeth that the Lord made with his people vnderunder …e old Teſtament, a carnal covenant, denying that everlaſting covenant in Chriſt to be geven vntounto them, or circumciſion to be the ſeale thereof: He …ſo denyeth the ſeede of the faythfull to be within the covenant of grace, …yther before or ſince Chriſts comming, contrary to Gen. 17. 7. Act. 2. …9. And therefore I cannot ſee, but that the denying both of the old and …ew Teſtament, in this reſpect, may juſtly be imputed unto him, as in this …reatiſe following it will appeare.
For their denying of the Lords day, as yet we have litle to ſay, notwith…anding it is reported that ſome of their company, makes queſtion therof.
But concerning the Magiſtracy, Mr. Smyth bewrayeth his vnſoundnes … theſe words, But of Magiſtrates converted to the faith and admitted into the Church by baptiſm, there may questions be made, which to anſwere we cannot if we …ld, when ſuch things fall out, the Lord we doubt not will direct vsus into the truth concerrning that matter.
Here let the Reader obſerve how they plead ignorance in the matter of the Chriſtian Magiſtrate, if ſo they thought of his Authoritie, that he being of the Church, was to beare the ſword, and them of the Church to obey him, as having civill power over them, and whome he might commaund in defence of Religion, & of his country to take vp armes; then needed not he thus to ſpeake. For by his words they geve vsus to conjecture, that they think more may be yeelded to an heathen Ruler, then to a Chriſtian Magiſtrate. If they be cleare in this pointe, they may ſo explane their myndes. Alſo in this pleading ignorance of the Magiſtracy, they ſeeme to tax the new Teſtament, not to be ſo playne, as Mr Smyth affirmeth, where he ſayth, All the ordinances of the new Teſtament are plainely taught by C… his diſciples. Character, pag. 34. Now if all things be taught in the new Teſtament, why then can he not anſwere thoſe many queſtions that may be made about the Chriſtian Magiſtrate, or why looks he for new direction? wel: this I perceave, that eyther he muſt deny the authority of the Chriſtian Magiſtrate, or be driven to confeſſe that the writings of the Apoſtles are not playne enough to diſcribe his office and Authoritie, without the Scriptures of the old Teſtament, from which if it be lawfull to reaſon concerning this matter of the Magiſtracy, then I hope it cannot be denyed, but ſo it is lawfull to do, for other ordinances alſo.
Touching the error of the Incarnation of Chriſt, which alſo Mr. Smyth deſyreth may not be imputed vntounto them. It is wel knowne that many of theire company holding that error about the incarnation, are ſeparated from the reſt. And Mr. Smyth him ſelfe (as ſome amongſt them have reported) maketh a queſtion about the firſt matter of Chriſts humane nature as if it were not a poynt of fayth to beleeve that it was of the virgin, though it be to be beleeved that the ſecond matter was nouriſhed in her womb. Whether his hearers do wrong him in ſuch reports, or how he reſteth ſatiſfied, it is beſt knowen to himſelfe. And be it, that he ſtand cleere of this error, yet is be taynted with the errors of general redemption and free wil, els why hath he given forth theſe Poſitions? 1. Christs Redemption ſtrecheth to all men. 2. Man hath not loſt the facultie of willing any good thing that is ſhewed him. And with all added therevnto his Reaſons in defence thereof.
Now let the Reader judge what cauſe he had to deſire, that theſe things ſhould not be imputed vntounto them.
Laſtly, Mr. Smyth taketh upon him to advertiſe our Church, ſaying: Let the Separation be advertiſed, that whereas they do ſo cōfidently through theire▪ ſelfelove, & ſelf conceat, fil their mouthes with hereſie and hereticks, as therby they would feare Babes, that therein they tread in the steps of all the Antichriſtians their predeceſsors &c.
For this his advertiſment, if any have ſpoken otherwiſe then is meete, I am no Patrone of any ſuch ſpeeches, but if it was lawful for Iohn to call the Phariſeis Generatiō of vipers, And Paul to ſay to Elimas, Oh ful of ſubtilty & all miſcheiffe &c. then is it not ſimply vnlawfull, to vſe ſuch ſpeeches, ſo it be for reproofe, and not for reproche. Therefore to call them hereticks and their opinions hereſies, (it being true and ſpoken in deteſtation of their errors, not of their perſons;) I ſee no evil in ſo ſaying, ſee theſe places. Io. 8. 44. 2. Pet. 2. 1. 2. 1. Io. 2. 18. Act. 13. 10. Gal. 3. 1. Rev. 2. 6. 15. And if this be a fault in vsus, why doth Mr. Smyth fil his mouth with Antichriſtian errors, ſo calling thoſe truthes which we hold? Hath he a diſpenſation ſo to ſpeake agaynſt the truth, and yet to blame vsus for calling their falſe doctrynes, hereſy? I ſhould rather have thought, that he ought to have advertiſed himſelfe for theſe reprochful & ſclanderous ſpeaches that he hath vttered agaynſt our Church, & the Teachers thereof, calling them †Char… Epiſtle the Re…Rabbies of the Separation. The greateſt Rabbies. And thus ſpeaking to the Church. Be it knowen to the Separation, that we account them in reſpect of their conſtitution as very an harlot as eyther her mother England or her Grandmother Rome. We proteſt agaynſt her, as wel for her falſe conſtitution, as for her falſe Miniſtery, worſhip, and Goverment. I could wiſh as the Tyrant wiſhed, Concerning the people of Rome, that all their heads were joyned into one. We deſire the Separation they wil not in craftines withdrawe from the Combate. We require them, nay we charge them, yea we chalendg them to the defence of their errors. We protest agaynſt them to be a falſe Church. They treade in the ſteps of all the Antichriſtians their Predeceſſors. Let them take heed, that notwithſtanding their Syrenes ſongs, they prove not Cages full of moſt vgly and deformed Antichriſtian Hereticks. All theſe reprochfull ſpeeches, if not more, hath he publiſhed in leſſe then a ſheete of paper, beſydes, what are contayned in his Book. And yet notwithſtanding all theſe ſpeaches have thus paſſed from him, he takes vponupon him to advertiſe vsus, for that we can juſtifie againſt his doctrines & againſt themſelves, for their obſtinate defending of their errors. But where he chargeth vsus to call them Heretikes, & their doctrines hereſie, through ſelf love and ſelf conceatednes &c. If he had applyed ſelf love and conceipt to him ſelf, I take it he might more juſtly have done it, if we may judge by his words. As for ſelfe love and ſelfe cō ceipt, we condemne in whomſoever. And howſoever we have our infirmities, I truſt he ſhalnot be able to tax any of vsus iuſtly, of theſe imputations.
And as Mr. Smyth wiſheth us not to be wyſe in our owne eies, through pryde, &c. we hope the Lord wil ſo teach vsus. And we pray the Lord to geve him a ſight of his damnable hereſies whereinto he is fallen, openly ſinning in the publiſhing thereof, to the great diſhonor of God, and greiffe of al the godly: and that the almighty may preſerve all that are his choſen, from being poyſoned with the ſame.
Richard Clyfton.
THE PROCESSE OF THE PASSAGES between Mr Iohn Smyth and Richard Clifton.
Mr Smyth.
CERTAINE REASONS PROPOVNDED To Mr Rich. Clifton: concerning the two Propoſitions following.
1. That infants are not to be baptiſed
1. Becauſe there is neither precept nor example in the new Teſtament of any infants that were baptiſed, by Iohn or Christs Diſciples: Only they that did confeſse their ſinnes, and confeſſe their Faith were baptized, Marc. 1. 4. 5. Act. 8. 37.
2. Bicauſe Chriſt commaundeth to make Diſciples by teaching them: and then to baptize thē: Mat. 28, 19. Ioh. 4. 1. but infants cannot by doctryne become Chriſts Diſciples: and ſo cannot by the rule of Chriſt be baptized.
3. Bicauſe if infants be baptized, the carnal ſeed is baptized: and ſo the ſeale of the covenant is adminiſtred to them vntounto whom the covenant apperteyneth not. Rom 9. 8. which is a profanation.
2. That Antichriſtians converted are to be admited into the true Church by Baptiſme.
1. Bicauſe Churches are ſo to be conſtituted now after the defection of Antichriſt, as they were firſt erected by the Apoſtles: But in the conſtitution of Churches the Apoſtles received in the members by baptiſme: go: So muſt wee doe now.
2. Bicauſe true baptiſme is but one: but the baptiſme of Antichriſt is not true baptiſme, and ſo not that one baptiſme of Chriſt: but all members of Chriſt muſt have true baptiſme.
3. Becauſe as the falſe Church is rejected and the true erected: the falſe Miniſtery forſaken, and the true received: So falſe worſhip, (and by conſequent baptiſme) muſt …e renounced, and the true baptiſme aſſumed.
Richard Clifton.
AN ANSVVER TO TVVO ANABAPTISTICALL OPINIONS. vid videlicet
1. That Infants are not to be baptized.
2. That Antichriſtians converted are to be admitted into the true Church by baptiſme.
ALthough with great ſorrow I am forced to vndertake this buſynes againſt him that was deere vntounto me: yet being therevnto provoked by the ſending to me theſe two Poſitions with certayne reaſons annexed vnderunder the Authours owne hand: I thought it my part (although the vnableſt of many) to contend for the maintenance of the faith which was once given to the Saints. Iud. 3. And by the help of God to put a brief anſwer to theſe opinions, which by the Churches in all ages have bene and are condemned for hereticall: the practiſe whereof I could wiſh might never have befallen to any of myne owne country, eſpecially to them that were partakers with me of the afflictions of Chriſt for the witneſsing of his truth. And chiefly vntounto him, to whoſe charge both I and divers others had once purpoſed to have committed our ſoules had he not beſides theſe broached ſome former opinions, both erronious and offenſive, wherby the truth (for which we ſuffer) is like to be the more blaſphemed of the wicked & many hindered in our owne country, that ſhall heare thereof, of whom we had great hope that they would have walked in the ſame faith with vsus. Notwithſtāding for as much as I am informed, that the authour hath promiſed vponupon the ſight of his errors to confeſſe the ſame, I do the more willingly take vponupon me this labour, praying the Lord to give a good yſſue, to his glory, for his mercy ſake Amen.
Mr Smyth.
A REPLY MADE IN DEFENCE OF TWO truthes, viz:
1. That Infants are not to be baptiſed.
2. That Antichriſtians converted are to be admitted into the true Church by baptiſme.
Theſe two truthes are by you, Sir, in your anſwer, intituled, Anabaptiſticall &c.
Rich: Clifton.
Sir, Whereas you iuſtify your two Poſitions to be two truthes, and ſo …title your Reply, A defence of two truthes: And charge me with vſing of …eproachfull ſpeaches in calling them Anabaptiſticall. Herevnto I anſwer, …irſt, that your two Poſitions will no more prove two truthes, then Ierobo…ns two calves proved two Gods, as in my former anſwer I have ſhewed, …nd ſhall (by Gods grace) more fully manifeſt in this treatiſe following. Secondly, I deny to have vſed any reproach, by intituling your erronious opinions, Anabatiſticall. But your ſelf do ſinne in calling evill good, and darknes light: thereby bringing vponupon your ſelf, that fearfull woe d…nounced by the Lord againſt ſuch. Eſa. 5. 20. If you repent not. 3. Whereas you bleſſe God that yo… are accounted worthy to ſuffer rebuke for Chriſtes truth, & wiſh me to know that my reproach ſhall light vponupon myne owne head, &c. I could wiſh you did not rejoyce in vayne, for there is a ſuffring for evill iuſtly deſerved, as well as for the truth, 1 Pet. 2. 20. The Ieſuites ſome of them have ſufferred vntounto death, yet had they no cauſe of reioycing therein, ſeing they ſuffered for their due deſert. And ſo your opinions being termed, Anabaptiſticall, for their vntruthes, can bring no true comfort vntounto you in ſuffring for them, nor yet my reproach, (as you call it) any iudgement upon my head, being warranted to give falſehood her deſerved titles. Gal. 3. 1. Phil. 3. 2. Gal. 4. 9.
As for Chriſt and his truth which you ſay, are by me evil spoken of: it had bene leſſe ſinne in you to have ſtayed your pen from publiſhing of ſuch ſclaunders, vnleſſe you could have proved your Poſitions the truthes of Chriſt, which I am ſure you ſhall never be able to doe.
Mr Smyth.
In your Preface you avouch that your are provoked to write, I mervayle you ſhould ſo speak: ſeing your conſcience telleth you did make the firſt queſt or motion … Mrs Bywater &c.
Rich: Clifton.
For Anſwer herevnto, know you Sir, and let all men take notice that the thing which you charge me with is moſt vntrue, for preſently after you were fallen into theſe groſſe errors, came Mr Southworth & Mr Br…mhead two of your followers to my chamber (as they ſayd) in kindnes to ſee me, and entred conference with me concerning theſe opinions, ſaying that they had heard that I had bene enclyned that way when I was in England, with ſome perſwaſive ſpeaches to conſider of this your new walking, ſaying alſo, that you were willing to conferre with me, and did wiſh that eyther I would come to you, or els if I were willing, you would take paynes to come to me; to whom I anſwered, that I never had any thought of imbracing ſuch opinions, neither was willing to have any conference with you thereabout, which when they heard me ſo to ſay, they further did ſolicite me to write with you about theſe points, and ſayd, that you would as willingly & as frendly write with me thereof, as you did in England in our former conference concerning excommunication and other differēces then betweene you & me, offring if I would not beginne, that yet I would vouchſafe to read and anſwer your writing; to whom I ſayd againe, that I would not write firſt or require your writing, (for I thought not to have any dealing with you,) yet being ſo importuned I tould them that I would be content to read it, if you ſent it me, but for Anſwere therevnto I I promiſed none, onelyonly I ſayd I would conſider thereof, and ſo do then as I thought good. This was the ſubſtance of my ſpeaches to Mr Southworth and Mr Bromehead, and of theirs to me. Now if this had bene true, that I had provoked you by any former ſpeaches, it is very like they would have made ſome relation thereof, eſpecially requiring that you might have conference with me, neither need you to have ſent me word that you would write or conferre (if ſo I pleaſed) and to deſire either at my hands (as theſe men did teſtifie,) if I had before moved you thereunto.
But for witneſſe hereof you produce, Mrs Bywater a gentlewoman …at hath imbraced your errors, with whom, after I had received your po…ions, which alſo ſhe ſayd ſhe had ſeen) I had ſpeach to this effect, that ſhe …ould be carefull over her ſelf how ſhe entertayned your new opinions, af…rming, that I was perſwaded they were grevous errors, and prayed her …ſtātly to ſtay a while vntil your poſitions might be anſwered, aſſuring her that I could by Gods help defend this truth we ſtand for againſt you, with ſome other words to like purpoſe.
Now let the indifferent reader iudge, if you have not greatly wronged …e, to ſay that I did make the firſt requeſt or motion of writing: nay your own act in writing firſt vntounto me, & your own ſpeaches in this your *Pag. 1.book which are theſe: Certayne reaſons propounded to Mr Rich: Clifton, concerning the two Popoſitions following, as alſo your adiuring vsus to anſwer you, or els you wil proclayme vsus ſubtily blind & leaders of the blind into the ditch, do witneſſe the contrary. And that this buſynes comes of your ſelf, though you ſeek to lay it vponupon my back, let your owne conſcience iudge: as for myne owne part, being ſo provoked, I could do no leſſe then anſwer.
2. You charge me with perverting of this ſcripture, Jude 3. and ſay, that I … neither to plead for Baall, nor contend for Antichriſtian errors:
And I anſwer, that theſe being truthes for which I contend, as have ben proved ſufficiently, and ſhalbe (God willing) as occaſion ſerveth, more fully confirmed, then am I not guilty of any ſuch imputation, but your ſelf is become faulty in calumniating the ordinance of Chriſt, viz: the baptiſme of infants, accounting it an Antichriſtian error, which I wiſh you well to conſider of and not to adde ſinne vntounto ſinne, both in pleading for error and in diſgracing the truth and the profeſſors thereof.
Further you ſay, it will not helpe me that theſe two truthes have bene condemned for hereſie by the Churches in all ages, for if the Apoſtles affoard contrary to the ſucceeding ages that which is moſt auncient is the truth: I graunt if you can prove, that the Apoſtles age affoards contrary to the ſucceeding ages for the iuſtifieng of theſe your opinions that then you have good warrant of your ſyde for calling them truthes: but if the Churches which have cō demned your poſitions for error, have agreed herein with the holy ſcriptures then I ſay, the brand of hereſie lies iuſtly vponupon them. And whereas you alledge that many truthes wherevnto we are come, have bene condemned for heretical, in as many ages as thoſe truthes which you defend: I anſwer that not many truthes, if any which we hold, to my remembrance have bene condemned in the ancient Churches for hereſies. And ſuppoſe thoſe Churches did fayle in ſome things, (as every Church is ſubject to erre, yet followes it not, that therfore they erred in condemning your opinions for haereſie: ſome things I think you wil graunt are hereſies which thoſe ancient Churches ſucceeding the Apoſtles age did condemne, as thoſe of Arius, Eutiches, Macedonius, and the reſt: and then is not their iudgement ſo lightly to be paſſed over, that no reconing is to be made of what they have done agreable to the ſcriptures. As for your errors we reject them not onelyonly becauſe the ancient Churches have ſo cenſured them, but finding them contrary to the word of God, therfore we condemne them.
3. Whereas I did feare your broaching of theſe and your former opinions, would be offenſive, and to the hindering of the truth, this you paſſe over in preſuming of the goodnes of your cauſe, ſaying, if any be hindred frō the truth, it wil be their ſinne, but if you feare (you ſay) that your Antichristian Church will fall to the ground, I ſay, it is that which is appointed to perdition, and to perdition let it go.
Indeed if any be hindered from the truth, by the publiſhing of the truth, it is their ſinne, Mat. 11. 6. but if you which hauehave ſtood for the truth, ſhall now by publiſhing of error, cauſe the truth to be the more blaſphemed, & give offence to weak profeſſors, that is your ſinne, and wilbe too heavie to be anſwered at the judgement day; if you repent not.
And as for our Church which you blaſphemouſly call Antichriſtian, know you that I do not feare the fall of it, for it is built vponupon the foundation of the Apoſtles & Prophets, Ieſus Chriſt himſelf being the chief corner ſtone, Ephe. 2, 20. which hath a ſure promiſe that the gates of hel ſhall not prevayle againſt it. Mat. 16. 18. And therefore your Anathema cannot hurt vsus, but ſhall rebound back agayn whence it came.
4. You ſay, though I hauehave profeſſed to forſake myne errors vponupon their diſcovery, and as I have practiſed, for which I am reproached among your brethren, yet I never profeeſsed my readines to be perverted from the truth, which you call hereſie, and therfore if you did vndertake to write vponupon this ground, you might well hauehave spared your paines and ſaved your ſelf from ſo grevous a ſinne, by pleading for Antichriſtian corruptions, &c.
The ground of my perſwaſion concerning your willingnes to yeeld vntounto the truth, did ariſe partly from that perſwaſion which I had of your ſan…tification, and partly from the ſpeaches of the meſſengers before named, …ho did affirme vntounto me, that if I could manifeſt by the word of God, …hat it was error which you hold, you would acknowledge it: And ſtill …ou ſay if you be in error it is *Paſsages▪ page 71.ignorantly. And therefore deſirous of …our good, I did vndertake according to my ſmall abilitie to manifeſt …he truth vntounto you, by ſuch reaſons as I could at that preſent gather for the confirmation of the ſame; which, ſeing you make ſo ſmall account of, and anſwer me, that I might have ſpared my paynes, and ſaved my ſelf from ſin, I am ſory in that reſpect that I did write, yet in regard of witneſſing the …ruth and performing a duty towards a brother fallen into error, I repēt …e not, neither yet of committing any grevous ſinne thereby, as you charge me withall, ſeing I plead for that which is of Chriſts, and not for Antichriſtian corruptions. And as for your errors ſo often graced by you with the title of truthes, which you ſay, you never profeſſed to be perverted frō, I mervayle not greatly therat, for hereſie is a work of the fleſh, Gal. 5. 20. that is eaſily and quickly imbraced, but not ſo left, and herein differs frō the truth; to the receiving whereof, we are hardly drawen, as both you and I had experience; but error drincketh as a pleaſant potion, Rev. 18. 3. without reſiſtance, and bewitcheth many that they ſhould not obey the truth, deſcribed and plainly manifeſt in their ſight, Gal. 3. 1. the poiſon whereof I am ſory hath ſo infected your ſoule, that you ſeeme to be changed into the nature thereof, and to be as confident therein as in any truth of the goſpel: and though you account my praying to be for an overthrow of the Lords truth, which is in deed for the converſion of you and that deceived company with you, from your errors,) yet will I pray ſtil that God may open your eyes, if you belong to him to ſee your grevous fall, & glorifie the truth of God, which in this your writing ſo greatly you have diſgraced.
Now I will come to anſwer the Poſitions with the reaſons thereof, and firſt concerning the former which is this.
1. That infants are not to be baptiſed.
Touching this firſt poſition, that Infants are not to be baptiſed, I read that Auxentius one of the Arrians ſect with his adhe…nts was one of the firſt that denied the baptiſme of infants, & … after him Pelagius the heretique, againſt whome Auguſtine & others of the ancient fathers, have oppoſed and condemned for hereſie, and that according to the ſcriptures, which by Gods grace we ſhall together with them alſo further manifeſt, & prove by ſound reaſons out of the word the lawfulnes of baptiſing infants, which firſt I will vntertake, and then anſwer the reaſons to the contrary.
Mr Smyth.
Now in the next place you make a speciall preface to the first point, affirming tha… baptiſme of infants was denyed by Auxentius the Arrian, & by Pelagius &c.
Rich: Clifton.
I ſayd that Auxentius the Arrian was one of the firſt that denyed the baptiſme of infants, and then Pelagius, whom Auguſtine and others refuted and condemned for hereſie: and you anſwer thus, that one heretike condemned another, contrarie to the ſcripture for the truth ſake.
That Auguſtine was an heretick and condemned Auxentius for the truth contrary to the Scripture reſteth for you to prove if you can. I have already proved that the denying of Baptiſme to Infants, is an error, & you have not in all this your writing confuted the ſame as wil appeare in the anſwer. And here let it be obſerved that you acknowledge Auxētius & Pelagius to be hereticks, & ſo theſe your errors to have bene firſt broched by men iuſtly condemned for hereſie, for you ſay, one heretick condemned another.
Further concerning the fathers by me alleadged in the 6. page of my writing, to ſhew the practiſe of Churches in baptiſing of Infants, you paſſe them over with this anſwer, ſaying, I can prove that Auguſtine, Cyrill, Cyprian, Origine, Nazianzene, Ambroſe and many others were as groſse hereticks, (if he be an heretick that holdeth an hereſie) as Auxentius and Pelagius, &c.
That theſe Fathers and others had their errors we do not deny, but that they were hereticks, and ſuch as did obſtinately defend their errors, being convinced therof by the word of God, is more I think, then you can prove: we do not ſay that the holding of every error makes an heretick: but when he that holds an error and perſiſteth obſtinately therin after admonition, … ſay that ſuch a one is to be rejected, Tit. 3. 10. And though you could …ove thoſe fathers as groſſe heretiks as Auxentius & Pelagius, as I know …u can not in that ſenſe as the Scripture taketh this word H…reticke, yet …is opinion of thoſe Catabaptiſts is not therby iuſtifed, for as an heretique …ay hold ſome points hereticall, ſo may he ſome truthes. And you are to …ove that thoſe fathers did vnjuſtly condemn Auxentius and Pelagius, …r the denying of the baptiſme of Infants, or els you Anſwer not to the …urpoſe.
As for our acknowledging of the Auncient fathers to be Antichristian, …t is more the… you have frō me or can ſhew that I have ſo affirmed: in deed …n there tymes the churches were in declyning, and through ignorance and careles taking heede to the word, Sathan beganne to prepare way for Antichriſt, but that we account them ſimply Antichriſtian as fallen into that deepe Apoſtacy, we doe not; they had ſome Ceremonies and other obſervances that we approve not of, yet reteyned they many of gods ordinances wherof Paedobaptiſtry is one: And where as yov ſay it is no more to be reſpected … the Ancient Churches then the Prelacy and read prayer in the ſame: we have learned by the word, to put difference betwene the things of God reteyned in Churches declyning, and the inventions of men, though you caſt out both together & account vsus Antichriſtiā for the ſame: next you proceed to examine my Arguments from the ſcripture, alledged to prove that Infants are to be baptiſed.