Concerning a Book by Christopher Lawne, Text 5
¶ A NOTE OF SOME THINGS CALLED into queſtion and controverted in the exiled Engliſh Church at Amſterdam.
By this courſe vve had much cō tention & trouble, &c.It being held among us, that ſuch as vvere to be dealt vvithall publikly for ſinne, ſhould not be admoniſhed by the Elders, vvhereupon the proceeding againſt them, if they perſiſted therein, might follovve: but that the peoples conſent vvas firſt to be taken, afore the Elders did ſo admoniſh any ſuch perſons: This poynt about admonition vvas handled, and thus agreed upon, from 2 Chron. 19, 8, 9, 10. Deut. 17, 8-13. 1 Theſ. 5, 12. &c. to this effect, viz.
THat it is the dutie of the Elders in the publike adminiſtration of governement, & in matters brought to the Church, to admoniſh the ſinners and unrepentant (vvithout requiring the people their conſent firſt): VVhichWhich admonition of the Elders being deſpiſed, the parties upon it are to be excōmunicated.Our boū den duty, in the Lord: and freedome according to his vvord: Both are to be reſpected, & obſerved aright. And all the brethren are bound to conſent unto ſuch juſt rebuke or admonition given by the Elders, as to the publike doctrine of the Church: And conſequently they are to aſſent unto all other the juſt adminiſtration of the Governours, they being able to juſtify the ſame by the word of God. And agayn, the people hauehave libertie to except againſt and evince vvherein the Elders doe unjuſtly without warrant: As alſo in all good order without diſturbance and under correction, they may aske reſolutiō of their doubts. And ſo by this meanes all popular confuſion is avoyded, & libertie in the truth reteyned.
Alſo after much and often reaſoning about our practiſe and underſtanding of Mat. 18, 15, 16, 17. it vvas agreed by the Church, That vve etred in the underſtanding of that Scripture, & namely in theſe particulars follovving:
Firſt, in that vve hauehave ſo underſtood thoſe vvords (Tell the Church, &c,) that they may not be underſtood of the Ievves Synedrion, nor of the Chriſtian Presbyterie or Elderſhip. And this moreover ſo, as ſome among us vvill by the word (Church) in that place hauehave underſtood, men vvomen and children in ther ovvne perſons; meaning by children, ſuch of them as are able to rejoyce and ſorrovve with others. And vve note this to be, of telling men women and children in their ovvne perſons: becauſe otherwiſe it is graunted, that the Congregation is told according to order and rules of governement, in the telling of the Elders. (And here it is to be remembred, hovv it hath often ben ſignifyed, that vvhether wee underſtand thoſe words (of telling the Church) thus, Tell the Congregation, to weet, according to the rules and order of governement appointed by God in his word; Note here that the Elders ſit in a publick place, vvhere all that vvill may come and be preſent, &c.or thus, Tell the Congregation of Elders not hindring or infringing any right or libertie of the brethren; theſe come both to one end, being rightly underſtood. And about theſe things hauehave ben alledged theſe & the like Scriptures: Mat. 18, 17. cōpared with Mat. 5, 22. Deu. 21, 18-20. Num. 35, 12, 24.25. with Deu. 19, 11-18. Ioſh. 20, 4-6. 1 Sam. 2, 25. Pſal. 82, 1. Prov. 26, 26. in the LXX. compared with the Original. Deut. 1, 9-17. and 16, 18. and 17, 9-12. and 25, 7, 8, 9, with Ruth 4, 1-11. 2 Chron. 19, 5-11. Act. 6, 11-13. and 20, 17, 18. Rom. 12, 4-8. Luk. 12, 42. 1 Cor. 4, 1, 2. and 5. chap. with Lev. 20, 11. and Deut. 17, 4-7. 1 Cor. 6, 1-5. & 12, 28. 1 Theſ. 5, 12-14. 1 Tim. 3, 5. and 5, 17-21. Heb. 13, 17. 1 Pet. 5, 1-4.)
Secondly, vve hauehave erred in that we hauehave ſo underſtood thoſe vvords (Tell the Church, & if he heare not the Church, &c.) that the partie offending ſhould not, vvithout taking conſent of the people, be admoniſhed by the Elders, wherupon to proceed againſt him: And that the ſinner vvas not to be excommunicated,Viz. the admonition ſo giuen by the Elders as is afore ſayd. for deſpiſing the admonition given by the Elders onelyonly. Touching vvhichwhich vve hauehave agreed heretofore, that vve erred, from theſe Scriptures, 2 Chron. 19, 8.9.10. and 1 Theſ. 5, 12. compared with Deut. 17.8-12. &c. (And here agayne it is to be remembred, hovv it hath ben ſhevved that the ſpeaches of telling the Elders, and of the caſting out of perſons for deſpiſing the admonition given by the Elders onelyonly, are to be underſtood in reſpect of miniſtration and governement committed unto them by Chriſt and the Church, and not ſo to be taken, as to exclude the Church or Chriſt the head, for vvhom they doe adminiſter: but that vve ſhould alvvay underſtand & obſerue theſe things, according as in Iſrael (in the due proportion and perpetuall equitie thereof) and according to the Scriptures here alledged, in this and the other particular aforeſayd: and therefore not to abridge the brethren of their aſſent or any right that doth apperteyne unto thē by the vvord of God: but to doe all things according to the rules preſcribed therein, as before hath ben ſhevved. To vvhichwhich ende likevviſe it is to be remembred, how it hath ben often ſignified and declared, that the povver of the holy things of God given to the Church, is properly and primarily Chriſts; ſecundarily and by communication the Churches; inſtrumentally and miniſterially the Officers, vvho are the Miniſters of Chriſt and the Church. And that thus vve would ſtill be underſtood. As alſo, that thus the admonition, being given as is aforeſayd, may be ſayd to be the admonition of Chriſt, of the Church, & of the Elders, in divers reſpects, according as is ſayd before.)
Thirdly, cōcerning that rule in general, we have had this errour among us, that it hath ben underſtood to be a newe rule for the time of the Goſpel, which Iſrael had not. VVhereabout may be conſidered & cōpared together theſe and the like Scriptures, as followeth: Mat. 18.15. with Lev. 19, 17. Prov. 25.9.10. Alſo, Mat. 18.16. with Deu. 19.15. and 17.6. Ioh. 8, 17. 2 Cor. 13, 1. And, Mat. 18, 17. with Mat. 5.22. Deut. 21.18, 19, 20. Numb. 35.12-30. with Deut. 19.12-17. &c. together with the other Scriptures mentioned here before in the other particulars, as in them may be ſeen.
And for all theſe things, if any can ſhew us better or othervviſe by the vvord of God, vve ſhall (God willing) be readie to yeeld unto it.
THus vvas the Churches agreement about theſe things. VVhere note, that the firſt of theſe about admonition by the Elders, was ſooner agreed upon, there being but fevv (in reſpect) that excepted and ſtood againſt it, vvhen ſome of the chief of them yeelded unto it. The latter, about our practiſe, & underſtanding of Mat. 18, 17. was verie long debated among us: and after much reaſoning had thereabout, vve vvere often and earneſtly urged by the Oppoſites, to giuegive ſentence and come to an yſſue about it. So in the end vve agreed concerning it, as here before is ſet dovvne. VVhichWhich vvhen vve had done, they ſignifyed their diſſent, and that they could no longer vvalke vvith us, practiſing accordingly. And ſo aftervvard they vvent avvay and left us. And this is the very cauſe of their departing from us, vvhatſoever other thing be alledged by them or any other thereabout.
And this I intreat the Reader vvell to obſerue, becauſe othervviſe, reading their foreſayd differences and objections in the letter and printed copie, (vvhereabout they hauehave buſied themſelues ſo much) he may take them for cauſes of their ſeparation, which in deed vvere not. And whereas thus it pleaſeth thē to trouble mens mindes with their poſitions, and intend in the ſetting of thē dovvne to cauſe diſgrace to this poor Church (which they ſo unjuſtly hauehave left, as if we had apoſtated and left the auncient ſayth) it ſhall be good for them to try and warrant thoſe their poſitions and differences, as alſo their ſeparation from us, by the touchſtone of the vvord of God, as now by the anſwer thereunto given, they are occaſioned to doe.
And vvithall, let them ſhew out of the Scripture, hovv it can be vvarranted, that a miniſter vvho hath not himſelf received true baptiſme, may adminiſter the Lords Supper; or that a people not having true baptiſme, may receive the Lords ſupper (as theſe hauehave done): ſeeing themſelues deny the baptiſme of the Church of Rome,By this opiniō the Martyrs of later yeeres had not true baptiſme, &c. & ſo conſequently of other Churches in Apoſtaſie, to be true baptiſme. If the example of Chriſt be conſidered, vvho firſt inſtituted and miniſtred the Lords ſupper himſelf, he had received true baptiſme before. Mat. 3, 16. with 26.26.27.28. The like may be obſerved about his Apoſtles, & namely about Paul, vvho vvas firſt baptiſed, afore he received or adminiſtred the Lords ſupper: Act. 9.18. with 20.11. and ſo in others from time to time. By vvhichwhich themſelues may perceiue vvhat a continuall profanation of Gods holy things is among them, that ſo miniſter or receiue, not having true baptiſme: and the Reader may diſcerne hovv needfull it had ben for them, better to hauehave thought of their poſitions and objections againſt us, afore they had thus vvritten and given them forth. And this I thought good here to mention (together vvith that vvhichwhich is before noted about it) that both themſelues and others may by this occaſion duly conſider of their eſtate and dealing.Pa…. 54 &c.
And here for this purpoſe alſo, it vvill not be unfit in this place to annexe the judgment of Mr. Iunius concerning the Church of Rome; as I ſayd here before I vvould. VVhichWhich the Readers ſhall do vvell duly to conſider, both for their ovvne better information, and for the better diſcerning and judging of the opinions and differences that are at this day-thereabout, not onelyonly among the Anabaptiſts, and ſuch as are affected Anabaptiſtically, but even among Proteſtants alſo, our ſelues and others, differing in ſome things about this matter. Thus therefore it is as followeth: