A Reply to a Censure, Tract · Part 3
Touching the matter.
NOw the Cenſurer is come to the matter, as appeareth by the title of the The third part.third part, which title ſheweth that the reſt hath beene from the matter, or about circumſtances not ſo materiall. This is the like arte to that which hath bene noted. For howe abſurde is it to hauehave ſpent ſo many leaues eyther from the chiefe purpoſe, or in things not ſo weightie, & now conclude that which hee calleth the matter in … ſeely leauēs and an halfe? But this is yet more abſurde, comming but nowe to the cauſe it ſelfe, & giuing it ſo ſmal allowanc… yet thereof to ſpeake no one word dire… to the queſtion: For he was to prou… yt … is not inco…uement for the ſtate to …te … diſputation againſt thē … ▪ agaynſt the lawes, & againſt re…gion, a… … ar… challenge of a ſeditious Ieſuit…. … finding this hard to be proued, and … reaſons not very eaſie to be confuted, he …eth to the generall queſtion, and proueth that diſ… tation may bee ſometimes graunted, which propoſition was neuer denie…. Let vsus th… fore conſider what hee ſayeth ſtill front t… matter. I alleadged the q… continuanc… of religion two & twentie yeeres free from Ieſuites, and from all ſuch chalenges: this is not a good reaſon vtterly to …eba…re all diſputatiō, neither was it ſo all…adged, but this ſetled peace maketh it an inconueniēt thing, to admitts men guiltie of rebellion, to diſpute agayaſt the peace of the kingdome, and the authoritie of religion. Your pretenſed continuaunce of Poperie a thouſande yeeres without interruption, is clearly ſounde falſe, by many and great euidence… but if it were true, what doth it proue: If religion were reentred into Ieruſalem, and there eſtabliſhed two & twentie yeeres, woulde you thinke it …onuenient that Ma…met ſhoulde bee admitted to diſpute, becauſe hee alſo can pleade many hundred peres preſcription as wel as you: Paſſing ouer the reaſo… you thought good, as that of your o…inate purpoſe not to yeeld, which alſo ſaketh ſuch diſputation as you …e, very inconuenient: You repea…e in the ſecond place my argument of a ſmall victorie ouer two or three laſt and leaſt in the quarrell. To this you ſay ſomewhat in …, but it would proue nothing: becauſe it is not in your power to per…ourme, or in your purpoſe to doe it. For doe you eſteeme your ſelues ſuch pillars of Poperie, that al the Catholiques in Englande and abroade, ſo long and deepely ſ… led in their religion, will preſently yeelde, if you bee ouercome with demonſtration of the trueth. Doe they ſtande no longer then you preuayle, or muſt they needes fal when you are ouer throwen? If to ſhew y• trueth with vsus, were the way to gayne you, you had beene gayned long agoe, as many thouſandes hauehave bene. But ſome hauehave … …ſa. 6. 1….to ſee and will not ſee, they hauehave heartes to conſider, and will not underſtand. Ca… on in his chalenge forgate that which you do▪ well aduertiſe him of, concerning hi… fellowes preaſt … readie to helpe him, if he ſhould come to the danger of his chalenge. The third… reaſon againſt your … diſtinctions, is … all this thirde part: for I alledg… that … particular diſtinctions of … learned and p… and … queſtion, di… ly are profitable. If this … propound and aſſ…le his … can obteine no victory but … and I can be but a witneſſe of it. … o…s I graunt▪ are generally … of the cheifeſt partes of a learned man conſiſteth in the knowledge how to diſtinguiſh aright. But what is this to proue all diſtinctions good, euen thoſe that Ieſuites make only to auoyde the power of trueth? Simples generally are good, ſeruing for the health of man, but what is this to proue thoſe euill ſimples good, which hauehave loſt their vertue, and which an euill Apothecarie may ſerue in place of good? for a triall of the Ieſuites diſtinctions you referre me to their diſputation: but I may hauehave a ſufficient triall of them and of their diſputation before hand in this your booke, if there were no other proofe to iuſtifie my report. As you would bring your quilits into credit, ſo you labour to bring my arguments and interpretations into diſcredit, as lying and falſe: but in a good conſcience, and according to the trueth, I hauehave auowed them true and good, as will eaſely appeare to the indifferēt reader. You that before made me much inferiour to Edmund Campion, now make mee inferiour to thouſandes of the Ieſuites ſcholers. Whatſoeuer I am to the meaneſt of them, the Lorde, I truſt, wil inable me to mainteine his trueth, euen againſt Campion your great champion; to ſay nothing of his diſciples. I confeſſe your diſtinctions offend… as being full of …ltie, and ſometimes ſo darke and vnlearned, that there appeareth neither good cauſe nor good vſe of them: yet you take it to heart that I ſhould account them vnlearned and peruiſh. As for the accuſatiō of Iude againſt the deſpiſers of good … ſes, it was corrupcly brought againſt mee Iude 10.for reiecting your ſophiſticall deuiſes againſt the trueth: for proofe whereof I referre me to theſe your diſtinctions choſen out of many for your purpoſe, which, one excepted, are all vnlearned and peeuiſh, ſeruing to put darkeneſſe for …ght, and …ol… trie in place of Gods ſeruice. For, as they that diſtinguiſh not, where the word hath diſtinguiſhed, may ſoone fall into ſchiſme and hereſie: ſo alſo you in diſtinguiſhing where the worde admitteth no diſtinction, do offend in like …or…, and with no leſſe danger. There is you lay, cleare difference betweene an Idol and an image. Surely this is somwhat that you ſaye: for an idol is the image of the ſuperſtitious Gentiles, and an image is the … and … named Chriſtians▪ There is I graunt, a cleare difference in the letters, but no difference at all in the word, no more then is betweene Omnipotent and Almightie. For (to paſſe by Phauorine, Heſychius Phauorine. Heſychius. Plutarch.and ſome places in Plutarch, who all make theſe two wordes of one ſignification) Plato maketh the matter moſt euident, Plato in dialog. foreign.who mouing a queſtion what foreign ſhould be, maketh this anſwere, foreign. It is manifeſt we will make anſwere that thoſe things are idoles, which are ſeene in water and in looking glaſſes, and thoſe moreouer that are painted or ſet out in types or portratures, & other things of this ſort whatſoeuer. By theſe words of Plato the Cenſurer may learne that any image carued, paynted, repreſented by a glaſſe or ſeene in water, is among the Grecians, where the worde is in his owne countrie and proper vſe, called an Idol. Tullie moreouer who could aſwell iudge of the Greeke worde, foreign and of the Latine word image as the Cenſurer, be in his tranſlatiō maketh them one. Laſtly Cicero in Phaenon. Arati.to returne to the holy Scriptures, God in the ſecond Commandement, forbiddeth both the making and worſhipping of an Image to repreſent the true God, or any of the falſe Gods. Thus much to ſhe we your vnlearned and moſt vntrue diſtinction betweene an Image and an Idol, which you and your fellowes repeate ſo often and vrge ſo much. You doe it to vpholde Idoles vnderunder a more honeſt title of Images (as you ſuppoſe) but as they differ not in name, ſo in nature they are all one, euen ſtumbling blockes of offence, the worſhippers whereof are open idolaters. I am taught by the word of GOD, that there were materiall and are ſtill ſpiritual Exod. 29. 38. Heb. 8. 3. 1. Pet. 2. 5. Heb. 13. 15. Heb. 9. 22.ſacrifices in the Church: but for ſinne I read y• there is no ſacrifice without bloud. So that your ſecond diſtinction of bloudie and vnbloudy ſacrifices is plainly againſt Abac. 2. 4. Rom. 3. 28. Gal. 2. 15. 6. 1. Ioh. 2. 1. 1. Tim. 2. 5.ſcripture: Iuſtice by faith wee acknowledge: but merite by workes is proued to be againſt the worde. So the mediation of Chriſt is according to faith, but your interceſſion of ſaintes againſt the ſcripture. For who is more mercifull then the Lorde that he may ſaue: or who more ready to heare vsus, that he may be the Lordes remembrance…: faith that beleeueth the promiſe, and Rom. 4. 3. Heb. 4. 1. 1. Theſſ. 5. 8. Tit. 3. 7.hope that patiently wayteth for the iſſue of faith we acknowledge, and the diſtinction I hauehave layde downe in the ninth article. Your counterfeit traditions of men and of the Apoſtles, are al without warrant in the cauſes neceſſary to ſaluation. But why hauehave you left out the diſtinction of the two worſhippings, Latria to God, and Dulia to images? Is it left out becauſe wee condenine it, and you now allowe no more of it: All theſe diſtinctions are moſt daungerous, when you will with ſome diſtinction or change of a name, reteine ſtill the ſame iniquitie, forging ſuch wicked deuiſes of man, to diſanull the truth of God. Therfore they are but your vntrue aſſertions and vaine bragges, that you diſtinguiſhe things into their proper natures, that you can proue eche part of your diſtinction conſonant to the word of God: that when you hauehave ſo diſtinguiſhed, wee hauehave no more to ſaie: that wee bewray our ignorance, and finally that the truth is made manifeſt to eueryevery mans eyes. When any one of theſe fiue definitiue ſentences is proued true, I will acknowledge the reſt. I much maruaile that in ſuch vanting ſpeach, you would not ſet down one true aſſertion of ſo many. But you care not what you ſay to reproche the godly, making account that your owne ſide will take it in good part, be it neuer ſo vntrue, neuer ſo reprochfull. The fourth argument touching the libertie of your pen, I hauehave anſwered already: but I anſwere further, you may hauehave it without print: and if that will not content you, there are printes inough neerer hande beyonde ſeas where you are, if we may beleeue you ſo often affirming it. The daunger & perſecution you ſpeake of, is a fruite of your murmuring ſpirits, complaining without a cauſe. For you go ſafely away wt many matters: & as much as you cōplayne againſt vsus openly, as intercepting all your bookes & other Popiſh ſtuffe, I thinke you doe much more brag among your ſelues of many eſcapes. But if you had as many prints as you can ſet a worke, what can you of leſſer giftes write, that the moſt learned of your ſide hauehave not written long agoe, as Ecchius, Pighius, Hoſius: and which nowe Turrianus, Andradius, doenot furboiſh in a vaine hope, at laſt to make an ende of Sifyphus labour. What iſſue all theſe hauehave had of courſing & diſcourſing againe, the queſtious betweene you and vsus, we may conſider it with great ioy of heart, & you in this kingdome and in our neighbour kingdomes may behold it with vexatiō of ſpirit. Therefore notwithſtanding your bragges before you come to the triall, and that you tell vsus, miſuſing the place, in the forehead of your booke of the fier in the moūtame, Deut. 5. ….yet we feare no more to encountre with you then they that ſee their enemies without armoure, or ouerthrowne before they come to giuegive them the charge.
Laſtly you like not my opinion, that only the Scriptures ſhould bee admitted for iudges in diſputation. But the opinion is good, and the practiſe needefull, ſeeing the holy ſcripture is the onelyonly touchſtone to make triall, and the onelyonly iudge to giuegive ſentence in all queſtions apperteyning to the doctrine of fayth and ſaluation. Howe reuerently I thinke of the chiefe councils of the fathers and doctors, and what profit I acknowledge to come by their great labour, it was declared in my anſwere. But you euermore omit that which maketh not for your purpoſe, where in you take an euil but yet a readie waye to condemne a good cauſe. Notwithſtanding to determine controuerſies in iudgement of religion, I admit them no ſeate: but refuſe them al not onelyonly with one breath, but with this one ſhort ſentence: The rule is not ouerruled. You ſhoulde hauehave proued that the doctours and councils hauehave not places contrary one to another, and ſometimes contrary to themſelues: If you had cleered them of this warre among themſelues, you had made them ſomewhat fitter to make peace amongſt vsus. In affirming that I ſay ſome of the fathers are condemned of forgerie, you doe manifeſtly peruert my playne wordes: for I ſpake of the places, and you drawe it to the perſons. It is one thing to ſay ſome places in Auſten are forged, and an other to ſay Auſten him ſelfe is forged. Now that places in Auſten are forged, and namely many of his ſhort ſermans to the brethren in the wildernes, it appeareth by Aug. ad frat. in Eremo.the iudgement of Eraſinus, and by the notes of baſtardie ſet downe in your owne editions. Cyprians places are alſo acknowledged by your ſelues, eſpecially that notorious booke of the reuelation of Iohn Baptiſtes head, where Cyprian maketh Cypr. de reuel. capitis Iohn Bap.mention of king Pipin that liued fiue hundred yeeres after that Cyprian was dead▪ But I neede not to alleadge any more, you wil not deny but there are many. Now there followeth a compariſon, that you ground your beliefe onelyonly vponupon the word of God, and make it the onelyonly obiect of fayth more thē we do. Your reports here, and in the ninth place confirmed … an othe, can hauehave no credit againſt your knowen doctrine and dealinges to the contrary. For doe you not in this verie queſtion, pleade the authoritie of men, as the warrant whereby we receyue the Scriptures? Doe you not denie that wee are ſaued by faith onelyonly? Howe then doe you buylde your beleefe onelyonly vponupon the word of God? or make that the onelyonly obiect of faith, more then we doe?
In the wordes following you keepe on your courſe, prouing that which is graunted, and affirming that which ſhoulde bee proued. I dyd graunt that Councils, Fathers and ſtories yeeld profitable helpes to ſhewe the eſtate of the Church from time to time, and alſo for the better vnderſtanding of the worde of God: yet this is that which you make y• queſtiō as denyed by me, and to be proued by you. After this ſtrange order of diſputation, you myght as fitly in forme, and more truely in matter, proue your doctrine blaſphemous, and your practiſes full of rebellion. If you woulde proue this, it were a true propoſition, but no confutation of that I ſay affirming the ſame. So in prouing that doctors bring great helpes to learning, you proue a trueth, but not in any ouerthrowe of my anſwere: For I hauehave acknowledged as much. The queſtiō in deede is, whether Councils and Fathers be iudges to giuegive ſentence in controuerſies, and rules to ouer rule interpretations: to the proofe whereof you ſhoulde hauehave tyed your ſelfe: but without any further proofe you affirme it, as a cleare matter and altogether out of dout. Is this that diſputation which you ſo boaſt of, to proue that is graunted, and to leaue that without proofe which is in queſtion? I ſhall not eſcape the note of audacitie, If vponupon your Cenſures falſe report, I ſhal be thought to denie that which I doe moſt manifeſtly anouch. But this note of audacious bouldnes cleaueth to you, who bluſh not to ſay, that the authoritie of Scriptures dependeth vponupon the teſtimonie and allowance of men: and that otherwiſe, we know not which is the word of God and which not. As many as hold this opinion had neuer their eares bored, nor their heartes opened by the Spirite of GOD, to heare and ſee more then the bare letter, they neuer felt the lyfe and ſpirite thereof, which is the holy ſpirite of God, not onelyonly bearing witneſſe with our ſpirite, that we are the ſounes of God, but alſo that the holy ſcriptures, are the worde of God, and his power to ſaluation: that they are alſo the rule which ſhould Rom. 8. 16. Eſai. 53. 1. Rom. 1. 16.rule all, and not be ouerruled of any. Neither hauehave thoſe diſciples of the word, humbled them ſelues at the footeſtoole of the Lorde, to behold his abſolute perfection in Rom. 11. 34. Iere. 17. 9.all his wayes, eſpecially in the full reuelation of his will to the ſonnes of men by his holy ſcriptures: neither hauehave they conſidered y• vanitie of vanities, & y• infinite hardneſſe of heart and corruption of iudgement which is in all fleſh. This humilitie would confirme them in the faith of that ſaying, no man knoweth the things of God, but 1. Cor. 2. 11. Iohn. 16. 13.the ſpirit of God. This Spirit leadeth vsus into all trueth, to knowe it and to proue it, and to be comforted thereby, not in the iudgemēt or after the ſenſe of man, but according to the worke of God opening our hearts, and ſanctifiyng our vnderſtanding, Act. 16. 14.ſo that the worke and iudgement is of the ſpirite according to the woorde of God. Herein alſo ſtandeth an anſwere to your ſeconde aſſertion, that by the fathers wee knowe which is the right meaning of the word of God, for as the authoritie of the worde is confirmed by the ſpirit, ſo are the interpretations thereof alſo. As man is not the author, ſo he is not the interpreter of the worde of God, otherwiſe then by the autoritie of the worde it ſelfe. This ſaint Peter proueth, making it a reaſon why no Scripture is of a priuate interpretation, becauſe it came not from man: but the holy 2. Pet. 1. 20▪ 21.men of God ſpake as they were moued and caried with the holy Ghoſt: ſo that the holy Ghoſt doeth deliuer, and warrant, and interprete vntounto vsus the holy woord of God, expounding ſcripture by ſcriptures, and not leauing this high office to men, otherwiſe then to miniſters conteyning themſelues within the faithfull ſeruice of their charge in their written and authenticall commiſſion. And you dare not ſay (who dare ſay much) y• an interpretation is true, becauſe an ancient father hath it, but becauſe he hath it according to a trueth, and the trueth according to the word. Hierome is a notable father of ſingular giftes, but, to paſſe ouer other places, I verely thinke you woulde cenſure him, for his interpretations Hieron. comment. in epiſt. ad Gal.vponupon the eleuenth verſe, of the ſeconde chapter to the Galathians: and vponupon the ſixt verſe of the thirde chapter, I write them not downe becauſe I am deſirous to couer ſuch blemiſhes, among other excellent gifts. Whether the viſible Catholike Church may erre or no, which muſt be conſidered in the particular members and doctrine thereof, I will for a triall admitte the example of your Church, but not the preſēt teſtimonie. Their example doeth teſtifie y• Apoſtaſie, which their teſtimonie will not acknowledge, though they ſhould do it to 2. Theſ. 2. 3. …. Tim. 4. 1. Apoc. cap. 13. & 14. &c.iuſtifie the prophecies that were deliuered of it before, and are nowe made ſo cleere as nothing may be more. To your manifold examples brought to proue that heretiques cleaue to the ſcripture: I anſwere firſt, y• heretiques alſo cleaue to traditions & ordinances receiued by word of mouth, Ireneus lib. 3. cap. 11.as appeareth by the complaint of Ireneus againſt them. Secondly the Scripture is the worde of God in his manifeſt ſenſe and conſtruction of trueth and life, and not according to the naked letter, whereunto, I graunt the heretiques did peeuiſhly ſticke, as you alſo doe, where it maketh for your purpoſe. The philoſophicall proofes which ſome hauehave made, asyou ſay, for the wonderfull myſterie of Chriſtes two natures and willes, proue not ſo much for philoſophie, as you woulde inferre therby: for without philoſophie the ſcripture hath ſufficient proofes for that neceſſarie doctrine, as hath beene declared. But by the way, where is your iudgement in this aſſertion? debate the matter with your ſelfe, and you ſhall finde howe vnpoſſible it is for natural philoſophy to determin the ſupernaturall miſteries of the vnitie of God and man, & of two natures and willes in one perſon Ieſus Chriſte, which was a worke of God as great as the creation of the world. Notwithſtanding I hauehave acknowledged, that philoſophie being corrected and ſanctified by the woorde, may alſo be ſome helpe to heauenly wiſedome, but without it the woorde is ſufficient, to open all the counſell of God which apperteyneth vntounto vsus.
Thus we take not away (as you charge vsus) y• vſe of Couneils, Fathers, & other like helpes, becauſe of an abuſe y• may bee, but ſtand againſt them, y• vnderunder ſome vſe thereof woulde bring in and cōfirme the …. Therefore how doth the Cenſurer both accuſe without conſcience, and giuegive ſentence without iudgement? who doth depriue you of theſe helpes? Who doth call you to the bare letter? How often am I enforced to repeate one thing to anſwere the ſame ſlaunder? As Councils and Doctors or Philoſophie may helpe, wee allowe them and vſe them: as Iudges we admit them not: and although we anſwere you to them when they are alleadged, yet knowe, that it is of that meaſure that is preſſed downe Luk, 6. 38.and floweth ouer, we are not bound vntounto it with any condition. But what reaſons are theſe that followe in the Cenſure? Eche man may deny the Scripture to be Scripture, or wrangle at pleaſure vponupon the ſenſe, therefore we muſt admit Councils, Doctors, and Philoſophie. This argument is very vnlearned and peremptori… againſt the maieſtie of Gods worde: A wicked man may wickedly take exceptions againſt it, therefore it is not ſufficient: he… may deny or wrangle vponupon the ſenſe, therefore we muſt leaue the certaine touchſtone of God, and bee tryed by the vncertaine coniectures of men. If the Ieſuite had not abandoned all worldly commodities, as not caring for the good bleſſings of God in this behalfe, I might eaſely confute this reaſon by one drawne from a leſſe aſſurance, and leſſe importance. An enemie may deny the Cenſurers euidences of land; or wrangle vponupon the ſenſe of the wordes, therefore he muſt not ſtand vponupon them, but ſeeke other teſtimonies to mainteine his title. But if theſe helpes or (as you meane) if the authoritie of men bee taken away, it is as much as to ſaye, controuerſies in religion ſhall neuer be ended. Wherein againe you make this weake and wicked argument: if controuerſies in religion be euer ended, it muſt not be by the Scriptures only, but by Councils, Doctors and Philoſophie. This is therefore the effect of your Cenſure and definitiue ſentence in this matter: that which God cannot doe by his worde, men may by their writings: that which God cānot determine by his trueth, men may ende and conclude by their lyes. And further to examine this your bould and daungerous concluſion, into what a ſea doe you drowe vsus, calling vsus to paſſe by the examination and iudgement of ſo many, ſo large; ſo doubtfull and ſo contrarie writers? If the worde be darke, are not the Fathers darker? If the Scriptures bee doubtfull, are not mens writings infinitely more doubtfull? If any heretique or wicked man dare wreſt the holy ſcriptures of God, withe not much more dare to peruert, to denie, and to treade vnderfoote the writings of a mortall man? It came from the deepeſt bottom of the Sea, to drawe men from the certeintie & ſafetie of Gods word, to the daunger and vncerteinty of mens iudgement. Concerning the hereſies you mention, as Trinitaries in Tranſiluania, Anabaptiſtes in Poland, Adamites in Germanie, I pray God whereſoeuer theſe or any other hereſies bee taught, that they may be vtterly rooted out, together with all other weedes that growe vp of their owne accorde, whereſoeuer the Plowe is neglected. For Hu… … me, for any thing I know in ſubſtance of Religion, alſo for Caluiniſtes in Fraūce, I anſwere, they are no heretiques, … rie theſe names, but by your … ſpeach, that, to bring the Goſpell of God into cōtempt, would make it to be thought the doctrine of thoſe men, whom the Lorde rayſed vp as notable inſtruments to publiſh it in their time, and as ſingular lights to chaſe away the miſt, which you had brought in, in all places of your darke and ſinfull kingdome. How farre we differ from Lutherans in ſome poyntes, you are not the fitteſt man to whome I may make complaint. But howſoeuer you hauehave added your marke in the margent, Note this, yet the Scripture is no cauſe of this diſagreement. VnderUnder the name of Caluaniſtes you charge the Eſtate of this land with hereſie: for albeit we receiue not the name, neither build our faith vponupon the doctrine of any mā, yet the Eſtate maynteyneth the doctrine which vnderunder that name you call hereſie. But you would onelyonly ſeeme to lay that reproch vponupon France. In England you ſaye there are Puritanes & the Familie of louelove. What an high and deepe ſlaunder is this to all the godly in this kingdome from the prince to the meaneſt perſon profeſſing the religion: your Catholikes excepted, are all in England either to bee charged with the odious name of Puritanes, or with the moſt execrable abominations of the Familie of louelove: What would not this your ſpirit attempt in the aboundance of your heart, if you durſt as well come to open action, as you dare caſt out theſe open and intollerable flaunders againſt all the godly page missing entred. We all holde the ſame doctrine of faith, publiſhed and mainteined according to the worde of God: we come to the ſame felloweſhip and communion in the exerciſes of religion, and ioyne all in the ſame defence of Gods holie Goſpell, yea we all, though not in the ſame meaſure, ſeeke the reformatiō of that, that at the Lordes time ſhalbe reformed to a further growth and beautie in the bodie of Ieſus Chriſt, which is the Church. Therefore notwithſtanding Eph. 1. 23.your ſlaunder, vponupon examination it wil appeare, that thoſe in Englande, which are ſlaundered with the name of deteſtable Heretiques, are farre from the hereſie, & moſt readie to condemne it, or whatſoeuer is contrarie to the publique doctrine of faith, mainteined by the preſent Lawes of the lande, which doctrine is pure and holy, and agreeable to the moſt holy word of God, which the Lorde continue for his names ſake with peace vponupon Iſrael. But to returne to the Cenſurer, hee addeth a manifeſt vntruth, ſaying that all the former hereſies ioyne againſt the Romiſh Church, in receiuing the ſcripture onelyonly. To wade no further, the familie of louelove, which you cite, are againſt you, who hauehave their ſeuerall Goſpell of the kingdome, they build vponupon Euang. regni.the curſed & thriſe curſed bookes of H.N. alſo they ſcorne the ſcripture learned, and in their louelove to you, acknowledge ye miniſterie of y• word to come frō the Pope. Therefore they do neyther cleaue only to y• ſcriptures, nor liue in ſuch miſlike of your ſuperſtitions. Nowe for the matter, if your argument be good: Heretiques cleaue to the word onelyonly, therefore it is naught: you may aſwell conclude, that we muſt not alleadge the Scriptures at all, becauſe they alleadge them: we muſt not diſpute at all becauſe they diſpute: which concluſions are all abſurd. For heretiques eate and drinke, they clothe them ſelues, all which are lawfull for all men to doe: therefore not whatſoeuer they doe, but whatſoeuer they doe as heretiques, that is a marke of hereſie. Furthermore to proue wantes in the worde of God, you demaunde howe it commeth to paſſe that the Scripture doeth not ende controuerſies among heretiques. I anſwere they are in the faulte, as you alſo like heretiques are by reſiſting the trueth: the worde is not to bee charged with any want. But let me moue the like queſtion, and hauehave your Cenſure touching the doubt. You that hauehave the Scriptures, the Councils, the Fathers: you that hauehave Philoſophie moreouer, and ſtories, and which is moſt of all, the Popes breaſt and the fulneſſe of the ſpirite you bragge off: howe commeth it to paſſe that you hauehave not yet compounded your trouble ſome and long controuerſie, whether the virgin Marie was conceyued without originall ſinne or no: If the euidences you ſo ſtande vponupon cannot in ſo long time ende ſo ſmall a matter, what will they be able to proue in the great queſtions of ſaluation: Agayne hedemaūdeth how ſuch hereſies can be, yf y• truth be ſo cleare. For triall of the truth & a manifeſt proofe what power there is in Gods worde, there muſt be hereſies and ſchiſmes: and God hath alwayes ſuffered 2. Pet. 2. 1.falſe prophets & teachers for a iuſt puniſhment of thoſe that louelove not the trueth: neuertheleſſe the Scripture is cleare and plaine, where God giueth an eare to heare, and a heart to vnderſtand: if it be hidden, it is hidden to them that are loſt. But you 1. Cor. 4. 3.that once or twice beate at mee, as one whoſe zeale ranne before his witte, ſtaye your ſelfe. Doe you y• make no conſcience to diminiſh the authoritie of the worde of God, crye out agaynſt vsus, if wee refuſe the determination of men: will you that hauehave alreadie in diuers plates pleaded againſt y• ſufficiencie of Scriptures, now pleade for Philoſophie, Doctours and Councils, as able to end al controuerſies & ratifie your title: If we call you onelyonly to the worde, not the bare woord, but adorned and richly attired with all fulnes of light and trueth, the cleereſt interpreter of it ſelfe, doe wee in calling you hither, depriue you of your euidences and witneſſes, ſeeking thereby to ſet you together by the …ares for the title? I knowe no euidences but the worde, no witneſſes but the holy Prophets and Apoſtles: if your kingdome can not iuſtifie Iohn. 5. 39.it ſelfe by theſe euidences and witneſſes, let her bee condemned by them for euer. Your beadroule of fathers naming heretiques y• abuſed y• Scriptures, I tooke not the tale of them, they are brought in as vnneceſſary witneſſes of a matter alreadie anſwered, & not in queſtion. Laſtly you conclude, that we drawe in one line with the moſt curſed heretiques, and you make them our progenitors, becauſe we appeale to the worde of God, as the onelyonly teacher and iudge in cauſes of religion. If this be a faulte, let it be required at our hande: if it be your horrible ſlaunder againſt the worde and agaynſt the Saints of God, for giuing due honour thereunto, y• Lord require it at your handes in the defence of his owne glorie.