A Second Reply to an Answer Made by Doctor Whitgift Part 2, Part 2 · Chapter 8
THE EIGHT CHAPTER, OF the ſecond part of this Treatiſe: of the ſurplice, and other apparel, taken from popery.
AGainſt their importunacy which may peraduenture ſay, that I leaped the matter of apparel, throwgh conſcience of the weaknes of our cauſe: yt shal not be much owt of the way, to run yt ouer, that yt may appear, boeth how little there is which hath not bene anſwered, and how little weight yt hath, which remayneth to be anſwered. The firſt diuiſ. is aIn the former part.anſwered, ſo is the ſecond: for further anſwer whereunto, I refer the reader to the bIn the defence of the Apolo. 5. chapt. 1. diui. p. 385. ſect. 3Bishop of Salisburys book, where he shal perceiue, how directly the D. is contrary vntounto hym, in that point. As for the laſt ſection, yt is anſwered in the firſt part of this tractate: ſauing, that he miſconſtrueth my wordes, in affirming me to ſay, that monumentes of Idolatry may be vſed in the church, yf ſome manifeſt profit doe appear. Vuhere as, my meaning is playn, that they owght to hauehave no entrance into the church: not onelyonly, for that they are monumentes of Idolatry, but becauſe there appeareth, no manifeſt profit of them. For, althowgh I wil not enter, into that queſtion: yet I can not ſee, how that which is properly a monument of Idolatry, can hauehave any good vſe in the church. That, thinges ordeyned to good vſes, and after cōuerted to Idolatry, may be profitable, I graunt: but, that a thing shal be profitable, in the church eſpecially, whoſe natiuity and firſt birth, was conſecrated to an Idol, and which the firſt day yt was inuented, was applied vntounto Idolatry, I think, the Anſw. is not able Diuiſ. 3. pa. 257.to shew. In the next, the firſt part of the firſt ſection, the reader hath to iudg of: vponupon the reaſons alledged, and vponupon the common experience. His queſtion, is onelyonly to blot paper: being afterward preciſely boeth moued, and cdiuiſ. 6. p. 278.anſwered by me.
For proof, that ſome think the ſacrament better adminiſtred with, then withowt a ſurplice: I alledged, as witneſſes, them vuhich ſay, I vuil not communicate, vnles he vuear a ſurplice. whereunto he anſwereth, that yt may come of iust cauſe: when the Minister, by not wearing, sheweth an example of diſobedience. Vuhereby, he firſt aloweth that men should abſteyn from the Communion, for want of a ſurplice: then, in part he giueth the execution of the lawes, to priuate men, contrary to the law of god, and of the realm. Vuhereas, yf the Miniſter did euil, in not taking a ſurplice, and would not giuegive place to their admonition: yt behoued them, to receiue the ſacramentes, and hear the word at his hand, and after to complain of the diſorder, to thoſe to whome the correction belongeth.
His reaſon, that none which are perſwaded to communicate with vsus, think the ſacrament better or wors for a ſurplice, for that they are diſſwaded from greater thinges: is inſufficient. For, there were Iues,a 1. Cor. 8. Rom. 14. which were browght from confidence in them ſelues, and in their own workes, to ſeek for their ſaluation in Chriſt: which in a peece of a holy day, or a bit of flesh, which is far les, put great religion. Vuhere the lord taketh a man by the hand, there he may leap ouer a wal: but where, to let vsus hauehave experience of our own weaknes, he reacheth not his hand: there, a little ſtone in the way is not withowt danger.
But admit (ſaith he) they hauehave a religion: yet becauſe their error is as great, which think the ſacramentes polluted by this apparel, yt is conuenient, yt should be vſed, and their errors confuted. This conuenience, did S. Paul neuer know: yf he had, he would vndowtedly hauehave tawght yt, when the like queſtion in meates, as this is in apparel, was moued in the church. For ſo, he had had an eaſy way, to hauehave compounded betwene the Iues and Gentiles, yf he could hauehave tawght the Corinthes, which were ſo loth to be abbridged of their liberty, that they might vſe yt before the weak brother, ſo that thei gaue hym inſtructiō of the indifferēcy of yt: whereas, the Apoſtle plainly forbiddeth to eat before him, as lōg as he remaineth in that weaknes what other thing, is this therefore: then to ſet, the Apoſtle to ſchole? The 2 ſection of the next diuiſion, is aIn the former part Tract. the firſt.anſwered: ſo are the bIb. p. 403.two other: likewiſe the cIn the firſt part of this Tract. Diuiſ. 1 pa. 262.three next: the next vntounto them belongeth onelyonly, vntounto the readers iudgment.
The firſt ſection, hath nothing but wordes. His ſecond, that Saul knew not Samuel to be a Prophet, for want of a mark in his apparel, but forſomuche as he was a rudesby in the common wealth, as Master Martyr ſaith: is to very little or no purpoſe.
For he ſaith not, that Saul knw not, what maner of apparel the Prophetes wore: but onelyonly, that he knw not Samuels particular perſon. Now, they may wel ſtand boeth togither, that Saul knw the Seers particular apparel, if any were: and yet not know Samuels own perſon. where, he would get this owt, of the which is deſcription of Samuel, by a mantel: he may as wel ſay, that yt was a proper mark to the Miniſters of the word, to be ould: ſeing the one as wel as the other, is giuen as a mark, to ſet forth Samuel by: howſoeuer he, boeth abſurdly, and withowt any aſsiſtance of reaſon, doeth deny this. For, I would know of hym, why she nameth hym an ould man, yf yt were not for this cauſe, that he might the eaſelier acknowledg hym for Samuel: and, how could a mantel be a ſufficient note of diſcretion of Samuel, from other Prophetes, which were dead, whē as hym ſelf ſaith, that al the Prophetes wore the ſame kinde of weed. Laſt of al, ſeing Samuel was, as he dpag. 262.alledgeth, a Prophet, a Magiſtrate, and a Captayn of the host: yf he had had a peculier kinde of garment, why might yt not as wel be, the proper garment of the Prince, or Captayn, as of the Miniſter.
Towching the proper apparel of thoſe Prophetes, which were extraordinarily rayſed vp, whereof he maketh ſuch large diſcours: it was confeſſed, and the reaſon beaten vponupon his own head, where yt cleaueth ſtil. For, yt was alledged, that they vuere notes of their extraordinary calling, and therefore vnmeet for vsus, vuhoſe calling ovught to be ordinary: whereunto he anſwereth not. And, if he wil hauehave the Bishops now, cōformed vntounto the prophetes in their apparel: they muſt were commō, cours, homely, and vile cloth. For, ſo M. Caluin, frō whome he pretēdeth his help, deſcribeth yt. But,vpō Zacha. 13. where is Luther now become, which ſaith, that the dſtiinction of the apparel, amongest the Ministers vnderunder the gospel, is not conuenient. apag. 150.before, he could take Luther, and leau M. Caluin: here, in the ſame Prophet, the ſame chapter, and almoſte the ſame vers, he hath caſt of Luther, and layd hould of M. Caluin: which notwithſtanding maketh nothing for hym. For, the doctrine which he gathereth, that the Ministers apparel, should be graue and ſparing, withowt rufling in their ſilkes, and veluetes: is that which we deſire, and hym ſelf, with others whome he defendeth, faut in. Nether is his other place, owt of M. Caluin, any thing to the purpoſe: for the Anabaptiſtes, condemn the vſe of armour, which is not onelyonly not forbidden, but alſo, in ſome caſe, commanded of god. Nether doe we diſalow, any of this apparel ſimply, as vnlawful: but as inconuenient, and that not altogither, but to that vſe, whereūto yt is (eſpecially in theſe tymes and with theſe circumſtances) applied.
His plaſter for al ſores, of a negatiue argument, vntounto our reaſon, that the ſcripture maketh no mention, of any diſtinction of apparel, for the Minister of the goſpel: as in other places, ſo here eſpecially, yt healeth not. For, there is not the leaſt thing, incident vntounto a Miniſter, as he is a Miniſter: but yt is comprehended, in the word of god, els, let hym giuegive an inſtāce, or one onelyonly exāple: whereof, alſo this may be a good witnes, that S. Iohns apparel, which was ſeueral, is ſet forth ſo diligently, euē vntounto the very girdle. And, ſeing the Apoſtle entred, into mētion of the Miniſters apparel, whē he b1. Tim. chap. 3.willeth yt should be honest: yf he had thowght yt needful, that he should hauehave had a mark in yt, to be knowen by, how eaſely could he hauehave noted yt: which was inſtructed by the holy goſt, of al thinges profitable, to aduance the miniſtery of the goſpel, How vain a thing then ys yt, that the D. would bear vsus in hand: that yt is ſo profitable and ſo conuenient, for their ministery. Vuhat alſo, that the Apoſtle, where need is, and comelynes doeth require: contenteth not hym ſelf, to command in general that the apparel should be honeſt, but deſcendeth alſo to the very form of the apparel: as, when he commandeth, that vuemen should hauehave a long garment, 1. Tim. 2. foreign.comming dovun to their foot. Vuhen therefore, the Apoſtle appointing this long garment for wemen, did leau yt free vntounto Miniſters, which fashion of long garment, of al other, ſeemeth to be moſte fitteſt for a Miniſter, and ſeemlieſt in al places: what can we think, but that he would hauehave the Miniſter free, in this behalf.
Vuhere he taketh for graunted by me, that ſome of the Apostles vſed a ſeueral apparel: he is to light handed, in taking that, which I neuer gaue. For, when as in ſpeaking of the Prophetes, Apoſtles, and our Sauiour Chriſt, I confes that ſome of them had a peculiar garment: yt is manifeſt, vponupon my diſcours, that I meant the Prophetes onelyonly, which were extraordinarily rayſed. And ſo far I wil graunt, his concluſion: otherwiſe, yf ſome onelyonly of the Apoſtles had a ſpecial garment, how could that be a mark of his miniſtery, when the reſt of the Apoſtles, which were fellowes in the ſame miniſtery, had not? And therefore, I meruail, how yow dare pres S. Iohns thin plate vponupon his head: ſeing that Euſebius, noteth that of hym as a ſinguler attire, from other the Apoſtles: whereas, if yt had bene a mark, of the miniſtery of his Apoſtleship, other Apoſtles, should hauehave had the like. Yf yt had bene a mark of his Archbishoprik (whereunto, from the hal to the kytchin, yow vſe ſometyme to promote hym) then al the other ſuppoſed Archbishopes, did wear the ſame: which is, as far from Euſebius minde, as the other. So, your concluſion, that if ſome of the Apostles had a ſeueral apparel, therefore al the ministers may hauehave ſuch a note of their miniſtery, is to bad: yt rather argueth, the clean contrary: that, for ſo much as the Apoſtles leauing nothing vndoen, which might make for the furtherance of their miniſtery, differed amongeſt them ſelues in the form of apparel, one wearing a leaf of his head, the reſt wearing no ſuch thing: that therefore, yt pertayneth not to the furtherance of the miniſtery, that al should be enioyned, to wear one form of apparel.
The reaſon, which I browght to proue, that Peter had no ſpecial apparel, whereby he could be diſcerned, to be one of the twelue: he vtterly diſſembleth. His two laſt shiftes againſt yt, are fond eſcapes. For the perſecuting Iues, would nether hauehave ſpared candle, for remedy of the darknes in the night: nor hauehave ſtood geſsing, and ſuſpecting, when as they might hauehave had, a ſufficient and a certein mark in his apparel, to know hym by. In his firſt exception, that it may be, that he put of his vppermoſt garment: he bewrayeth his to great bouldnes, by running in the maz of his own head, withowt any thred of the word of god, to bring hym owt. For, when the Euangeliſt aMarK. 14. 52.maketh expres mention, of one of their infirmities, that to ſaue hym ſelf, caſt away his vpper garment: he would, if there had bene any ſuch thing, hauehave doen the ſame of Peter.
In his anſwer, of our Sau. Chriſts garment: for one faut, he maketh two. For, he ſaith, that S. Iohn would not hauehave made mention of yt, vnles yt had bene a ſeueral apparel: which is a shameful ſaying, conſidering that yt is manifeſt, that he noteth yt to hauehave had no ſeam, to shew the occaſion that the ſouldiars toke, of caſting lottes for yt. Vuhereby, boeth DauidsIoh. 29. 24▪ propheſy of hym, was fulfilled: and he the better knowen, to be the ſame, of whome the Prophet ſpake. Again, this garment wherein the Anſw. wil hauehave, the mark of our Sauiour Chriſts miniſtery, was his coat and vndergarment: and therefore, not ſo fit to shew forth his miniſtery, as he paſſed by the ſtreates, conſidering that yt was hidden by his cloke, or mantel, which he wore vponupon yt. And, if our Sauiour Chriſt, had the note of his miniſtery in his coat, then, althowgh S. Peter (as he deuineth) had put of his vpper: yet, they might hauehave knowen hym, by his vnderunder garment, which was alſo a proper note of his miniſtery. Vnles, he wil peraduenture ſay, that our Sauiour Chriſt, wear the mark of his miniſtery vponupon his coat, and S. Peter his, vponupon his cloke: which in this bouldnes he is entred into peraduenture he wil not ſtik to doe. Laſt of al, this iudgmēt of our Sau. Christs ſeueral apparel, like vntounto Iohn Baptiſts: is contrary, to the aMatth. 11. 16. LuK. 7. 31.Euangeliſtes. which shew, that he in his owtward faſchion of lyfe, toke another way then S. Iohn Baptiſt: namely, for that where S. Iohn choſe a path, throwgh which he ſeparated hym ſelf, from the ordinary and accuſtomable trade of other men, our Sau. Chriſt folowed the common and high way, that other went. which, being expresly mentioned of his diet, muſt by the ſame reaſon be vnderſtood of his apparel: conſidering that that was one of the two pointes, wherein S. Iohn ſowght a ſingularity. The contrariety with my ſelf, is before bIn the former part Tract. 1. Diuiſ. 1. pa. 265.anſwered: the next diuiſion, I pas by.
Vuhether the Magiſtrate may commād a ſeueral apparel, is another queſtiō frō this, vuhether he may cōmand the popish: conſidering, that he that getteth the firſt, hath not therefore won the ſecond: whereunto, the D. beſide wordes partly idle, of genus taken vniuerſaliter, partly boeth idle and fond, of Totum in modo &c, anſwereth not. But now, in ſted of his former affirmation which was, that the Magiſtrate may appoint a ſeueral apparel: he hath ſet down that he may appoint any kinde of apparel: As yf theſe two, to appoint an apparel, and to appoint any apparel, were al one. In which dealing, let yt be obſerued, that where in his firſt affirmation, he would hauehave fayn changed his queſtion, of the popish apparel, for a better: now, to defend his wandring, he hath, for a cauſe which was not good before, gotten one which is a great deal wors: the norishing whereof, wil ſtand hym in more, then did the other. So that, in ſted of ſetting on a peece: he hath here made the rent, a great deal bigger. For, if the Magiſtrate may lawfully command the Miniſters, any kinde of apparel: he may commād them to wear purple colored garmentes, which being comely for c youth, should not be ſo for the Miniſter, that1 Ariſt. Rhe. 2. ad Theo. beareth the perſon of an ancyent. Likewiſe, he might command them to wear (as dAriſt. polit. 2.Hippodamas did) furred clothes boeth vuinter, and ſommer: alſo a Souldiars weed, which M. Caluin (of whom he ſeeketh fauor in this cauſe) e affirmeth to be against common ſens: how much more, yf he should command them, to wear a womans habite. Yf yow except, that theſe thinges be not comely: nether is that required (for any thing that I can ſee) by your defence but onelyonly, that he propound yt, as a thing for comelynes and orders ſake, withowt any conſcience of religion. Althowgh, to anſwer, that theſe thinges are vncomely and vnorderly, and that the ſurplice and cope &c are comely and orderly: is onelyonly, a bare demaund of that in queſtion: Beſide that, when any of theſe kindes of apparel should be eſtablished, by the ſuperior powers, as orderly and comely: yow teach vsus, that yt belongeth not vntounto vsus, which are priuate, to iudg whether yt be otherwiſe, but to them alone.
To that I ſaid, that in the appointing of any ſeueral apparel vntounto the Ministers, there is ſome iniury doen to thē: he maketh a noyſe, as yf Hannibal vuere at the city gates: but if the prouerb be true, that a deep vuater is cōmonly ſtil, there is like to be no great deapth of reaſon or knowledg, to mayntein that with, which is born owt with ſuch owtcries. Vuhatſoeuer it be, let vsus ſound yt. His firſt anſwer is, that being choſen by the church, the Magiſtrate can not know, what kinde of minister eueryevery parish hath: euen as wel, as when he is choſen by the Bishop: for, the Prince is agreed, to hauehave the confirmation and allowance of the election by the church, aſwel as of his. Althowgh, this is no anſwer to my reaſō, which was, that the Magistrate may vuel alovu of hym, as for one vuhich knovueth vuhat apparel is meet for his eſtate, vuhom he alovueth, as an able man to gouern his people, betvuene god and them: ſo that my reaſon is, of his alovuance, and his anſwer is, of his knowledg. And, if withowt any particular knowledg of hym, he may alow of hym as of a fit Miniſter: he may withowt the ſame knowledg, alow of hym, as one which is able to wear his own apparel.
His ſecond reaſon is, that the Magistrate aloweth hym, with condition of being obedient: which is vtterly from the purpoſe. For, the queſtion is not here, what the Miniſter may lawfully obey, but what the Magiſtrate may lawfully command: and yt was ſet down, that the Miniſter, as alſo other ſubiectes, might, in ſome caſe, vuith good cōſcience obey that, vuhich the Magistrate can not vuith ſo good a conſcience cō mand. His third reaſon is, that the Magiſtrate may be deceiued in hym: whereunto I anſwered, that he might then punish hym, according as the faut requireth, to the which he replieth not. Laſtly (ſayth he) how ſufficient ſoeuer he be, he must be ſubiect to good orders. wherein, he beggeth, that this ſeueral apparel, is a good order, which is the queſtion.
Howbeit, the Anſw. which in deliuering his reaſons by tale, oftentymes giueth but eleuen to the doſen: hath giuen vsus here at vnwares, thirten. For as for his former reaſons, yf yt had not bene, in ſuch a slippery place of the obedience vntounto the Magiſtrate, with the contrary whereof, he ſo often and ſo vniuſtly chargeth vsus: I would not hauehave once, vouchſafed to hauehave named them. His reaſon, that other wiſe men may alledg, that they nede not to be preſcribed in their apparel, which he counteth not: hath, of al other, the greateſt colour, and yet yt is anſwered before. For, althowgh there be, which know how to wear their apparel, as wel as the Miniſters: yet by calling there is none, of whome yt owght to be ſo much preſumed, as of them: yt being, as yt was alledged, vuithin the a1. Tim. 2. 9. 1. Pet. 3. 3. Iſay. 3. 16.compas of their charge, to teach the people to vuear theirs: which charge of teaching the people, belongeth to no other eſtate. There being therefore, ſo good reaſon, why the Miniſter should be left vntounto his honeſt liberty, in this matter: yt muſt needes ſeem hard, that his eſtate, should herein be inferior almoſte, nay altogither to al the orders and eſtates in the land. For, the Iudges, Sergeantes, and Aldermens ſeueral apparel, is not (for any thing I could euer learn) ſo enioyned them: but that they may ſome tymes, and that in publik places, vſe the apparel, which to them ſelues ſeemeth good. And, I would know of the Anſ. which maketh ſuch adoe abowt this ſaying: whether he thinketh, that yf the Magiſtrate should appoīt the Miniſter, a ſeueral and preſcript diet from al other men, he should not doe that, with ſome iniury vntounto the miniſtery. And verely, the caſe is not vnlike: eſpecially, ſeing in S. Iohn Baptiſts miniſtery, which the lord would hauehave diſcerned, he would hauehave yt aſwel diſcerned, by a ſpecial diet, as by a ſpecial apparel. At the leaſt, this is certayn, that if it be wel reaſoned of hym, that yt is cō uenient, to appoint the Miniſters of the goſpel a ſeueral apparel, becauſe Iohn Baptiſt had ſo: yt is as good a reaſon, that the Miniſters, should hauehave a ſeueral diet appointed thē, becauſe S. Iohn had ſo.
Now, where yow note ſuttle dealing, in that I pretend, that by this reſtraint of apparel, the Ministers diſcretion is miſtruſted in wearing his gear, where yt is commanded for a note of diſtinction: yf yow meā not, that yt is onelyonly to diſcern them from other, yow ſay nothing againſt me. For yt may be, boeth for the one, and the other reſpect. yf yow mean onelyonly, yow ſpeak againſt your ſelf: which affirm yt to be commanded for comelines and order. And, euenp. 279. 287. &c. in the very next diuiſion, for confirmatiō of your cauſe, yow alledg this ſentence owt of M. Caluin, that Doctors should in grauity and modeſty of apparel, differ from the cōmon ſort: ſo that yow ſeek by this ſeueral apparel, to brīg the Miniſter, vntounto a modeſty in wearing his apparel. For, if the Miniſters may be grauely and modeſtly apparelled, whē they wear not al one form of apparel: yt is euident, that yow are here, clean owt of the furrow. Furthermore, yf yt were for diſtinction onelyonly, what nede ſo many markes abroad by the ſtreates, in the cap, in the gown, and in the typpet: whē as, knowledg enowgh would be giuē by one? why doe the Doctors of the ciuil law, and (ſometyme alſo) the Phyſicions: wear the ſame attire? finally, wherefore are not the papiſtes, driuē to the puttīg thē of: with the like ſeuerity, as the Miniſters are driuē to the putting of thē on? The honeſter ſort of the cytiſens of Rome,Liuius 9 li. ab vrbe. whoſe proper ornamēt was, to wear a gouldē ring, and other markes of their dignity, whē they ſee eueryevery raskal wear thē, did caſt thē aſide: what would they hauehave doen, if they had ſene their enemies wear thē? Not that I, for my part, deſire that the Prieſtes should, as lōg as thei remain in popery, leſe their cap, and tippet, vnles they leſe their head and nek to: but becauſe I would shew, that ſome thing els is ſowght for, thē a note of diſtinction. And, within the church, would not the Prieſts gown ſuffiſe, withowt the ſurplice? His ſurplice, withowt the cope? his preaching and other miniſterial function, withowt them al? For, who can he be, which doeth theſe thinges in the church, but the Miniſter? can there be a fayerer white, to know hym from al the reſt, then theſe? he that, ether can not know, or wil not acknowledg hym, for a Miniſter by theſe markes: yt is not ſafe, that he should know hym by the other. Here alſo, yt is little to your credit, that yow carp as an abſurd ſpeach: becauſe I ſayd, the Colledg vualles, vvould hauehave tavught better logik. Yf aCicero li. 6. Epist familiar. Ierom. Epi. de ſuſpecto cōtubernio.Tully, herein be not a good Scholemaſter: yow might, at the leaſt, hauehave giuen me leau to hauehave folowed Ierome, which vſeth this maner of ſpeach, as wel as Tully. In the next diuiſion, vntounto two reaſons whereby I shewed, that there is not the like respect in the ſeueral apparel, appointed to Iudges and Cytizens, vuhich is in the Miniſters: beſide petitions, and repetitions, he anſwereth nothing to the matter. The next, requireth no anſwer.
The firſt ſection is bIn the examinatiō of D. vuhitgifts cenſures.anſwered. In the ſecond, towchingThe D. 4. c. Diuiſ. 1. pa. 269. Sycinius, my reply that he vuas reprehended onelyonly, for to much exquiſitenes in his apparel: he can not moue. His collection thereof, that the ministers wore blak, is firſt withowt the book: then, yf yt were true, yet his concluſion, that they were thereby knowen, as by a proper note, is nawght: conſidering, that as now, ſo (no dowt) then, others then Miniſters wore blak. Likewiſe, vntounto my reply, that nether S. Iohn nor Cyprian, liuing in the tyme of perſecution, vuere ſo vnaduiſed, as by vuearing ſome notable apparel from the reſt, to betray them ſelues into the handes of their enemies: he can not anſwer a word. The truth whereof may better appear, in that the Bishops, to kepe them ſelues from knowledg of the perſecutors: were driuē ſometymes to wear apparel, which otherwiſe had bene abſurd: as alib. 7. Histor. Tripa. cap. 16.Euſebius, vuhich goeing abovut to ordeyn Elders &c, vuore a ſouldiars vuede. And this was alſo the cauſe (no dowt) why Iuſtin Martyr and Hermes, after they were called to function in the church: are ſaid to hauehave continued their Philoſophers apparel. By how much more, I mervaile at the D. inconſtancy: which page 275 citeth a ſentence, to proue that the chāge of the apparel in the myniſtery, as wel as in other eſtates, is not material. He alledged alſo one of theſe examples, to wit of Iuſtin wearing a Philoſophers apparel, after his receiuing to the miniſtery: which he would neuer hauehave doen, yf there had bene an vniform faſchion of apparel, appointed vntounto the Miniſters. Vnles, peraduenture he wil ſay, that al the reſt of the Miniſters, did wear Philoſophers apparel, as wel as he: which is vntrue, ſeing this is noted of them, as of rare examples.
VntoUnto the particular reaſons of Birrus, becauſe he could not anſwer: he hath feyned a nw ſignification of a thyn plate, contrary to the autority of the Calepine, that proueth yt to be a garment of cours and heary cloth, of no price. His Dalmatica alſo, yf yt were, as he imagineth, with wide sleeues: maketh not a whit, to proue yt a peculier garment. Contrariwiſe, the word ſignifiyng Slauonish, declareth, that yt was not proper to any degree of men, but to the cuntrey, ether becauſe the cloth, or faſchion, came from thens. His reaſon, that they were particular kinde of uestimentes, becauſe the names be expreſſed: is to shameful, as yf there were no other cauſe, to name them: whereas, the naming of thē, maketh to the certeinty of the ſtory. And further, in Cyprians garmentes, yt maketh to his commendation: which, in giuing his garmentes according to the quality of the perſons, vſed diſcretiō, and declareth hym, to hauehave bene of a preſent minde, in the very point of death. The particular reaſon of the cloke, he hath let fallen flat: yet is yt their reaſon, whoſe names he pretendeth, for other, aſwel as for this.
To that I replied, of the white apparel in Chriſostomes tyme, that he rather reprehendeth yt, when he ſaith, that▪ their dignity is not in the vuearing thereof, but in taking hede to their ministery: he anſwereth, that yt is ſpoken by compariſon, but that is onelyonly ſaid. I graunt, we ſometymes ſpeak in that meaning: but that is nether the ſimpleſt, nor vſualeſt kīde of ſpeach. To proue that the white apparel was with thē nothing els, then a more honeſt apparel, as blak with vsus, I alledged Salomon: wherein, his interpretation of innocency, Eccleſ 9. 8.is not innocent: as that which ouerturneth, the whole ſute of the text. That of ioy, wil not ſtand: conſidering that that was mentioned before, and the ſcripture vſeth commonly to ſend the figuratiue ſpeaches before, rather then to place them after: althowgh, I graunt, yt is a thing annexed with ioy. But, that yt is to be vnderſtanded of the white apparel, vſed in thoſe partes: yt is manifeſt by the oyl of the head, which is ioyned in the ſame vers, conſidering that yt ys knowen that the a vſe thereof amongeſt the richer ſort, eſpecially2 Sam. 12. 20. …. Sam. 14. 2. LuK, 7. 46. when they would recreate them ſelues, was commō. where he excepteth, that this cuſtome might be changed, betwene Salomons and Chryſoſtoms tyme, he owght to hauehave shewed yt: for, ſuch a cuſtome once proued, is ſtil preſumed, vntil the cō trary appear. Albeit in Tullies bCicero in vatin.tyme, many ages after Salomon: yt appeareth that the Romanes, which, with the Eaſt empire, translated a nomber of Eaſt fashions, at bankets when men attire them ſelues more honeſtly, vſed to wear a white garment.
But yt shal appear, that this white garment, had the ſame eſtimation in Ieroms tyme: and therefore alſo in Chriſoſtoms. Hether therefore pertayneth, that page 282, of the white garment, vſed in diuine ſeruice, and alledged owt of Ierom: where, the D. being required to anſwer the reaſons of the reply to the examiner, by which yt is maynteyned, that no ſpecial mark of apparel in the ſeruice of god, is meāt: ſaith, he purpoſeth not at this tyme, which, in good english, is as much to ſay, as he can not. For otherwiſe, he muſt needes be in damages, which arreſting ſo violently and ſo infamously, one that ſaid nothing to hym, in calling his proof a chiledish cauil: now being called vponupon, putteth in no declaration againſt hym. His pretence, becauſe I ſet not the repliers reaſons down, is vayn: for, he that toke the paynes to read his book to accuſe hym, should hauehave doen the ſame to hauehave conuinced hym: eſpecially, ſeing yt was yet neuer anſwered. But, becauſe he ſaith, that the place which he cyteth owt of the councel of Carthage, may be a ſufficient confutation of al, which is ſaid of Ieroms places: ſeing we hauehave no credit with hym, let hym hear Eraſmus, which affirmeth, that vuhite garmentes vuere In praefatione in Ieronymum.in Ieroms tyme in great price, and that the vuearing of them vuas, for honors ſake, accorded vntounto the Priestes, but not vntounto the Monkes, ſauing onelyonly in deuine ſeruice. Vuhereby, yt is manifeſt, that the white garmentes, which Prieſtes did wear in the deuine ſeruice: was (as we ſay) their holyday apparel, and vſed of them as wel with owt the church, as within.
So is yt alſo apparant, that the place of the Carthage councel, towching the Deacons white apparel: ys nothing els, but that the Deacon did in the church onelyonly, wear that apparel, which the Bishops and Prieſtes (as thoſe which were more eſtemed) did wear boeth within, an withowt the church. Nether is there any neceſsity, that he should translate the wordes of the Councel, in maner of a cōmandement vntounto the Deacon, to wear a white garment: feing the word, may aſwel be turned ainducatur.he may vuear, as let hym wear, and better alſo. For, conſidering that yt was, as hath bene shewed, graunted for honors ſake: yt is more agreable with the nature of honor, to leau yt free, then to driue hym to the wearing of yt, whether he wil or no. whereupon, likewiſe enſueth, that there is not like cauſe in our countrey, of wearing a white garment, which was in theirs, yt beīg ſtage like with vsus, which was graue and honorable with them.
As for Ierōs place owt of Ezechiel, the Anſ. doeth shamefully abuſe his reader. For, he ſpeaketh of the vſe of the Iues vnderunder the law, and not of vsus: which appeareth manifeſtly, in that he oppoſeth that ceremony of the law, vntounto the maner of the Aegiptiō Prieſts, vuhich vuore boeth vuithin the church, and vuithovut, vuhereas the Prieſtes in the lavu, did vuearonely vuithin the church. This appeareth again, in that which he addeth by and by: that this vuhite apparel vuearing is fulfilled in the gospel, vuhen vue put on Christ. For further reply herein, I refer the reader partly, vntounto the anſwer vntounto the Examiner, which (to take away the D. excuſe) I would hauehave gathered, and ſet down, yf I had had the book: partly, to the aIn the defence of the Apol. part. 3. chap. 5. diuiſ. 1. pa. 386. ſection 4. &c.Bishop of Salisbury, who sheweth owt of Auguſtin, and Ierom, vuith others, that the Miniſters nether vuere in tymes paſt, nor ovught to hauehave bene, diſcerned by any special note or mark in apparel. The next diuiſion, requireth no anſwer. In the next, to proue that Eustathius vuas depoſed, for ſeeking a ſingularity in his apparel, not onelyonly from the miniſters (as he would vntruly inſinuate) but from the common vſe of men: there can be ſcarce playner wordes, then thoſe which the D. ſetteth down. where, there is ſo great light, that the glos vponupon the 30 diſtinction, which he alledgeth: is compelled to ſay, that by the tenor of that Councel; yt is enouugh to vſe the apparel, vuhich is accustomed in eueryevery cuntrey. The chalenge there, which I made abowt Euſtathius, as yt was eaſy: ſo, I confes, yt was cauſeles, and of my ouerſight. The two next, are anſwered.
Caluins ſentence now, as Auguſtins before, towching the applying The D. 5. chapter. 3. D…u. 273.of thinges to the honor of god which were abuſed to Idolatry: are onelyonly to pas the tyme, yt being in thinges neceſſary, boeth confeſſed, and confirmed by vsus. His reply whereunto page 284 is, that althowgh wood, gould, and oxen were neceſſary: yet, that thoſe abuſed to Idolatry, were not▪ ſeing other might be taken, which is vntru. For, there is none of theſe thinges, which were not particularly commanded: ſo that they could not, withowt manifeſt breach of gods commandement, be changed. And if there had bene, no ſuch particuler commandement: yet thoſe which should hauehave applied theſe abuſed thinges, to the vſe of the deuine ſeruice, had had better ground for them in the general commandement, then he can shew, to bring in the ſurplice and cope. For, the lord hauing once declared that he would be ſerued in his temple, by the ſpices and kīdes of theſe creatures of gould &c: they might wel know, that he could not leſe his right, by any wrong that men could doe. Therefore, he should hauehave compared our cope and ſurplice, with the Idolatrous cope: whereunto, the lues are bidden to ſay, get the hence. wherein, althowgh the Anſ. ſay,Iſay. 30. that our cope is nothing of that nature: yet, he can shew no reaſon why. And, as our cope and ſurplice, are wel matched with that Idolatrous cope: ſo are the ox, gould &c, wel matched, not with the ſurplice and cope, as he matched them, but with water, bread, and wyne, which our Sau. Chriſt hath appointed, for the elementes of the holy Sacramen…es. For, euen as no abuſe of theſe creatures, be yt neuer ſo horrible, can put vsus from their vſe: ſo was yt, of the gould &c. The ſum is, that vnles he shew as good ground for the ſurplice and cope &c, as we can for this gould &c: he leeſeth al his labour here, which was alſo alledged. That of churches, ſo oft repeated, is apag. 256. & 275.anſwered: let vsus therefore return.
Augustins misliking of theſe ceremonies, can not beAuguſt. Ser. 6. de verbis domin. in Matheum. ſo wrong from vsus. For, graunting that he doeth in that ſermon, diſſuade the people, from comming vntounto that Idolatrous ſeruice: I anſwer, that he doeth more then ſo. For, would Auguſtin hauehave bene ſo vnaduiſed, as to hauehave called the preſens at Idolatrous ſeruice, a toy: which is the higheſt treaſon againſt the eternal god, and a matter of moſte fearful condemnation? Therefore, when he ſayeth leau their toyes: yt is apparant, that he comprehended ſuch like ceremonies as theſe, which are, euen by thoſe that vſe them, commonly called toyes: and therefore, by Auguſtins counſail, to be left, that the papiſtes, vuhen they ſee ſo fevu vſe them, might alſo, in this behalf, be ashamed of their fevunes.
Vuhere I affirm, that I vuould be loth, ether vuith hym, or Auguſtin, to ſay that it is not lavuful, to conuert a thing abuſed in Idolatry, to a priuate vſe, as to make a shirt of a ſurplice &c. he taketh his pleaſur of me. And, I would yt were but of me alone, and that a peece of his inſultatiō, reached1. Cor. 10. 25. &. Auguſt. ad Publicolam epiſt. 254. not vntounto S. Paul: who teacheth preciſely, that a mā may eat in a priuate houſe, of the flesh that was offered vntounto Idoles, which notwithſtanding Auguſtin ſaith, a man may not, althovugh he should dy for hunger. whoſe counſail, if yt had bene folowed in Iulian the Apoſtatas tyme, whē boeth the meates, and fountaynes, were abuſed to moſte horrible Idolatry: what a number, should hauehave ſtarued for hunger? Therefore, Theodorets iudgment in this point, is more catholike:Theodoret …. lib. ca. 15. which approueth the vſe of thoſe meates and waters, to the ordinary ſuſtenance. Nether, was yt wel concluded of Auguſtine, which vpō one particular cōmandemēt, of employing the ſpoil of Iericho, to the vſe of gods ſeruice, cōcludeth, that yt is not lawful, to emploi thinges cōſecrated to Idolatry, to priuate vſes. For, after the lord had taken the firſt frutes of the ſpoil, gotten by battayl, in the city of Iericho:Ioſu. 8. 2. he biddeth the Iſraelites expresly, to take the ſpoil of Ay, withowt al exceptiō: where, no dout, there were rich Idoles, as wel as at Iericho. My deteſtation, of ſuch cormorants as hunt after the ſpoil of the church, I hauehave before proteſted. The next diuiſion, is anſwered. VntoUnto my reply in the next, the D. anſwereth nothing, to the purpoſe. The aIn the firſt part of this Tract.two next vntounto that, be likewiſe anſwered: ſo was the next, ſufficiently bIn the former part. Tract. 2.anſwered in the firſt book, withowt any ſpice, of the inconueniēce, which he talketh of.
In the next, the firſt ſectiō, whether the admonitiōs vuere vurittē vuithovut knovuledg ether of other, I ſaid that which I thowght: let the reader iudg. As for his reaſons, there is neuer a one that cōuinceth any cōmunication betwene them: before their bookes were writtē, or prīted almoſte. The rule which I cyted owt of Ariſtotle, hath that ſens which I alledged yt for: which is to be shewed, yf this were the place. the other ſectiō, with the next diuiſion, requireth no anſwer: the next vntounto yt, is anſwered. In the next, the An. sheweth his to great bouldnes, that would make the reader beleue, that the Adm. alloweth of a gray Amys, as of a garment of dignity in the miniſtery: ſeing they would hauehave the Miniſters knovuen, onelyonly by voice and doctrine, as hym ſelf affirmeth of them. The reſt in that diuiſ. requireth no anſwer.
The firſt ſection is anſwered, the later is nothing but repetition:1. diu p. 28… Leuit. 13. 5… in the middle, I confes, that for thinges infected with leproſy, which are commāded to be burned: I mistoke thinges conſecrated to Idolatry. Althowgh, the analogie frō the corporal leproſy, vntounto the ſpiritual: wil ſtrike fier enowgh, to conſume theſe ragges, towching the vſe of thē in the church of god, as hath bene wel aIn the book intituled a ful and playn declaratiō of eccleſiaſtical diſcipline.obſerued. The two next I pas.
In the next, charged for ſaying, that M. Bucer, and Martyr, affirm that they edify: he pretēdeth ſome thīg owt of M. Bucer, which may be drawē that way, but owt of M. Martyr, he cā finde nothing. yet, doeth he ſtil countenance yt owt with wordes, althowgh the anſwer vntounto them boeth; (yf they had ſo ſayd) foloweth in the 4 next diuiſions.
In the next diuiſion, he anſwereth nothing, for defence of his firſt propoſition. For, yt is manifeſt, that a lavuful Magiſtrate may command an vnlavuful thing, notwithſtanding that he proteſt, that yt is for orders ſake onelyonly. For, as for that he addeth, withowt any ſuſpitiō of ſuperſtitiō, yf it be vnderſtood, that the Magiſtrate doeth not cōmand yt ſuperſtitiously, that doeth not heal vp the matter, ſeing he may faut by other wayes thē by ſuperſtitiō: yf he vnderſtand, that the ſubiectes doe not abuſe yt to ſuperſtitiō, yt is that in queſtiō. But here, he is fallē again frō him ſelf. For b279.before, he anſwereth as thowgh a church ceremony, might be comely, and not tend to edificatiō: inaſmuch, as to me obiecting, that yt ovught to tend to edification, he anſwereth, that yt is ſufficient, yf yt pertayn to order and comelines. Here, preſuming comelines, he concludeth thereof: that not onelyonly yt tendeth to edification, but alſo that yt edifieth. The reſt, is an open asking of that in controuerſy: that onelyonly excepted, which is before anſwered.
Againſt his reaſon, that the ſurplice edifieth, becauſe thoſe which wear yt, edify: I alledged the Midvuiues lye, whereunto he anſwereth nothing to the purpoſe: but that, which I gaue hym, which is not enowgh to mayntein hym, ſeing he propounded generally, that thoſe thinges edify, which are doen by them which edify. And, what auantageth yt hym, to proue that this apparel may be worn, that the lye profited: when yt owght not to hauehave bene doen, yf yt might hauehave ſaued al the world. TheRom. 3. 8. ſimilitude of stammering, is vnanſwered. For, ſeing he is browght to that pinch, that he cā here aſsign no other cauſe, why they edify, then becauſe the Minister can not otherwiſe be admitted to preach: yf there should be a Magiſtrate, which, in contempt of the goſpel, should ordeyn that none should preach, but thoſe which ſtammer: he ſeeth, that the ſimilitude houldeth. Yf this example, be not graue and ſad enowgh, to match with the cope, which hath bene alwayes eſtemed, ſo fit for a players garment: let hym take the example in oyl &c, propounded vnderunder the ſame conditions. The reſt, is anſwered.
In the next, to the reaſons againſt his aſſertion, that the wearing of the ſurplice, maketh the wearers to agree in other pointes of doctrine, and the not wearing to diſagree: he partly anſwereth not, and the anſwer which he maketh, hangeth altogither of blinde experience. I cal yt blinde, becauſe he can giuegive no reaſon of yt: and therefore, as that which hath no light to shew yt by, yt muſt needes be vnuiſible. As for his vntrue ſurmiſes, that we imagin a perfection, whereby we hauehave no need of lawes or Magiſtrate, they neuer fail hym: as if yt were not, emongeſt other, a ſinguler vſe and profite of the Magiſtrate: to procure by lawes and punishmentes, that thoſe meanes, which god hath ordeyned to mayntein godly vnity with, be ſtraytly obſerued, althowgh he deuiſe none of his own. The next diuiſion, is aIn the chapter of the ceremonies of Baptim and in the former part of this booK. p. 92.anſwered.
In the next, being not able to cary his reaſon, they are ſignes of good thinges, therefore they are good, any further: he diſchargeth yt vponupon M. Bucer, which hath yt not: alſo vponupon the commō vſe of ſpeach, which he alſo slaundereth. For, we doe not cal yt a good ſign comonly: vnles that, as the thing is good, ſo the ſign to mark yt owt with, be agreable. And, yf he preſume that here in the ſurplice, he openly beggeth the queſtion: otherwiſe, what is he, that wil ſay, that a wolfs skyn is a good ſign of a lamb, becauſe the lamb which is good, is clothed in yt: althowgh, his anſwer is nothing but a shift. For he conſidered not, what the thing is in common ſpeach: but what yt is in deed, and in reaſon. The example of the goulden calf, was wel alledged. For, yt was to the Iſraelites, a ſign of the true god, but a nawghty, and a wicked ſign: and ſo, yf none but Miniſters of the goſpel, did wear the ſurplice: I would confes, that with vsus yt were a ſign of a Miniſter of the goſpel, but yet an vncomely, and an inconuenient ſign. And to the intent the reader may know, how vnfaithfully the D. dealeth with him, in houlding owt M. Bucers autority for the ſurplice, and the reſt of this popish apparel: he may vnderſtand, that aBucer in cenſur. Liturg. Anglic.he doeth boeth for that it ſerueth to ſuperſtition in many, and for diuers other cauſes, require that they should be taken avuay in our church. His firſt ſection, is to no purpoſe, of that which I towched hym for. In the next, his anſwer that the abuſe of the braſen ſerpent, could not be taken away, oneles the ſuperſtition yt ſelf were: is withowt al proof, and may be as wel ſaid, of this apparel. For, althowgh no man worship the apparel, by falling down before yt: yet he may hauehave a damnable opinion of yt, and as hard to be pulled owt, as the other. Beſide that, by how much the abuſe of the ſerpent, was greater, then of this apparel: by ſo much, was the profit of the braſen ſerpent, if yt had bene called to the right vſe, withowt compariſon greater, then of theſe ceremonies. And althowgh the neceſſary and commanded vſe of the ſerpent, were but for the tyme, wherein yt was a mean to heal thoſe which were bitten: yet afterward, yt had a notable vſe, of continuyng the remembrance of gods vuōderful benefite to vuards that people, whereū to he anſwereth not: Els, I ask of hym, why it was continued in the church ſo many hundred yeares, vnderunder ſo many boeth good kinges, and godly Prieſtes.
His anſwer, to that obiected of the louelove feaſtes: I receiue, ſo far as concerneth the inconuenience of keping them in that place, wherein the lords ſupper was celebrated. Howbeit, to that, that the church hath, for the abuſe, vtterly taken thoſe feaſtes avuay, notvuithſtanding that they vuere likely meanes to norish louelove vuith: he anſwereth not. That thoſe louelove feaſtes were borowed of the Gentiles, is vnlike: conſidering that S. Peter giueth ſufficiently to vnderſtand, that they were vſed in the churches of the Iues, which abhorred from the ceremonies2. Epiſt. chap. 2. 13. of the Gentiles. For, writyng vntounto the churches of the Iues, he alludeth plainly vntounto that of S. Iude: where theſe feaſtes, are expresly named. Yt is much more probable, that they were taken from the imitation of the Iues vnderunder the law: whoDeuter. 14. 23. 29. are bidden to feaſt before the lord in Ieruſalem. wherein, are commended vntounto them, as geſts and partakers of the ſame bleſsing of god with them, ſtraungers and widowes, with other nedy and deſtitute perſons: which is manifeſt to hauehave bene, one of the endes of this louelove feaſt. The two firſt ſections, are nothing but an asking of that in demaund: eſpecially hauing regard to this point, whether this apparel be conuenient for the miniſtery or no, or whether, being inconuenient, yt owght ſo to be declared, in which pointes this queſtion lieth. As towching that point, whether the Miniſter should wear yt, althowgh yt be inconueniēt: the truth is, that I dare not be autor to any, to forſake his paſtoral charge for the inconuenience thereof: conſidering that this charge being an abſolute commandement of the lord, owght not to be laid aſide for a ſimple inconuenience or vncomelines of a thing, which in the own nature is indifferent. The offence, in occaſioning the weak to fal, and the wicked to be cōfirmed in their wickednes: is one of the fowleſt ſpottes in the ſurplice, and which of al other can make yt moſte deteſtable in the eyes of a godly Miniſter. And ſuch it is in dede, that yf it were balanced with any thing left free vntounto vsus of the lord, as in the choiſe of meates, and drinkes: yt would eaſely weigh yt down. But, when it is laid in the skoles, with the preaching of the word of god, which is ſo neceſſary for hym that is called thereunto, that a wo hangeth on his head, if he doe not preach yt: yt is of les importance, then for the refuſal of yt, we should let goe ſo neceſſary a duty.
As for that which is vttered againſt the offence, yt is as theIn the former part pa. 403. reſt of this diſputation, to shew how incōueniently ſuch thinges are eſtablished: not that they may not in any reſpect, be born with. And my reply to the place of the Corinth. 1. 8. againſt his anſwer, which ſaith that in thinges indifferent cōmāded by the Magiſtrate, we owght not to hauehave ſuch regard vntounto the offēce of the weak: owght not to be drawen further, then I alledged yt: that is, in applying our ſelues to our brethren, ſo that we leau not vndoen that which the lord hath abſolutely cōmanded. where that is not, boeth in vſe of theſe indifferent thinges, and abſteyning from them: we are ſo ſtraitly bound to hauehave regard vntounto the weak brother, as no Magiſtrate is able to loſe the knot of that bond. But, where offences can not otherwiſe be redemed, thē by leauing that vndoē, which the lord hym ſelf hath not left free vntounto vsus, but caſt a yoke of neceſſary ſeruice vponupon vsus: there the caſe is otherwiſe. for if the Prince, vponupon declaration of the incōuenience of ſuch ceremonies, and hūble ſute for the releas of them, wil loſe nothing of the cord of this ſeruitude: for my part, I ſee no better way, thē with admonitiō of the weak that they be not offended, and prayer to god to ſtrenghthen them thereunto, to kepe on the cours of feeding the flok committed ynto him.
This is, in few wordes, my ſimple iudgmēt of the matter of this apparel and ſuch like ceremonies, peraduenture needful to be here propounded: not ſo much for their ſakes, which mislike yt (which I ſuppoſe for the moſte part to be of that iudgment) as for them which are born in hand, that there is no other cauſe, why the Miniſters hauehave left their flockes, then for that they would not wear this apparel. Vuherein, beſide other matters of far greater weight, euen in this caſe of ceremonies: the yoke which is laid vponupon their neckes, is not onelyonly to vſe them, but to ſubſcribe vntounto them, as vntounto good and conuenient orders. where, yt is not onelyonly not lawful to ſubſcribe thē, but requiſite, that the Miniſter should, as occaſiō ſerueth, teach the incōmodity of thē. And alt nowgh I can remember nothing in ether of my bookes, cō trary vntounto this iudgment: yet if there be any thing that may be drawē againſt yt, yt is meet that yt fal, that the truth may hauehave the vpperhand: vnles a better iudgment then this can be shewed, which I wil willingly learn at his feet, that can teach yt. The next belongeth onelyonly to the readers iudgment: the laſt is aIn the former part p. 391.anſwered.