A Second Reply to an Answer Made by Doctor Whitgift Part 1 — Thomas Cartwright

A Second Reply to an Answer Made by Doctor Whitgift Part 1 · Thomas Cartwright

Caput 3.

VNtoUnto the firſte diuiſion / I hauehave anſwered. In the ſecond / to pag. 355.proue that Cyprian ſpeakethe off an Archbiſhop / the D. concludeth thus. yt is the principall office of the archbiſhop, to prouide that peace, and vnitie be kept in the churche, &c. but the office off him whom Cyprian deſcribeth, is to keepe peace in the churche: therfore Cyprian ſpeaketh of an archbiſhop. This argumente is caſte in the ſame moulde that thoſe / which he hathe vntrwly compared my reaſon vntounto before: pag. 316.and yt hathe almoſt more faultes / then wordes. But that the ſimpleſt maye ſee his dealing / yt is to be vnderſtanded / that as the pretence off inſtitucion off the Archbiſhop was to keepe peace / and ſuppreſſe ſciſmes: ſo the onelyonly pretence off tranſlating the name off biſhop / from manie in one churche vntounto one onelyonly / was the ſame: as appeareth by the place off Ierome after Ierom. ad Euagr.diſcuſſed. To let paſſe therfore that I hauehave proued / and will after more appeare / that there was then nether Archbiſhop / nor Metropolitane / and for diſputacion ſake to imagin Archbiſhops then: yet when bothe the name / and office Cyprian ſpeaketh of / agree vntounto him which gouerneth in euerie churche / or (to ſpeake as the D. ſpeaketh) dioceſe: and the office onelyonly withowte the name / agreethe to the Archbiſhop: yt muſt needes be meeter …o refer Cypcians wordes to the Biſhop / then to the Archbiſhop / ſeing that there be more cordes off reaſons to pull them that waies / then the other. At the leaſte yt is cleare / that the Argument off the A. is faultie: ſeing yt was not onelyonly the principall office off the Archbiſhop / to prouide for peace / &c. but the ſame alſo was the principall office off the Biſhop / as that vnderunder pretence wherof / that kinde off Biſhop was inſtituted.

Where he cometh to his oulde hole / that althowghe the name be not there, yet the office is: I refere my ſelfe vntounto that written before pag. 354.in that be halfe. Howbeit here yt appeareth how he ſpake withowt booke / ſaying all writers before the Nicene Councell, make mention bothe off their names, and offices: when as Cyprian one off them / hathe no worde off them. Where he ſaithe Cypr. ſpeaketh off Cornelius, who had gouernement off all the prouince: that is the queſtion / which becawſe he coulde not proue / he taketh graunted. Where he addeth Cyprian had the charge, and ouerſight off all churches in Aphrica, and for proofe alledgeth the 4. booke, 8. Epiſtle: he is abuſed / for Cyprian dothe ſaie no ſuche thing. He ſpeaking there off himſelfe / and off his fellowe biſhops aſſembled in Councell / ſaithe in this ſorte: but becauſe our prouince is ſpred forthe larger, and hathe bothe Numidia, ād Mauritania ioyning. he ſaith not my prouince, but our prouince: which is manifeſtly referred vntounto all the biſhops aſſembled / as the courſe off the epiſtle declareth. Nether dothe he there ſpeake off any iuriſdiction / or ouerſight which he had more then an other Biſhop: nether yet off two Mauritanias / as the D. ſaieth / but off one onelyonly. Yt appeareth therfore that the water where he drew this / was trowbled: and from whence ſoeuer he hauehave yt / Euſebius is off more credite in that matter. Who ſpeaking of Cyprians large dominion / ſhutteth him with in Euſe. 7. li. ca. 3.the precinctes of Carthage: ſaying / he vvas biſhop of the pariſh vvhichwhich vvas in Carthage. And allthowgh it be cleare that Cyprian had no ſuche iuriſdiction / yet to thende this vnfaithefull dealing maie better appeare / let it be conſidered what was the eſtate off the churche in Africa / aboute 150. yares after: when there were Metrapolitanes which had ouerſight ouer Prouinces / and this weede of Ambitiō had ſpred yt ſelf much further in the churche. In the Councell of Africke yt appeareth / that Aurelius which longe after ſucceded Cyprian in the churche of Carthage / had not 1. Tom. Concil.him ſelfe anie iuriſdiction ouer ether Mauritania / or Numidia: for that as he was biſhop off the firſte ſeate off that prouince wherin Carthage was: ſo Xantippus was Biſhop of the firſte in Numidia / and Nicetius of the firſte in Mauritania. I omit that Mauritania was deuided from Carthage by ſea: ſo that (contrary to the D. interpretacion) men muſt hauehave paſſed the ſea for deciſion off cauſes. Wherby appeareth what a fable yt is / that Cyprian was Metropolitane off thoſe three prouinces / when euerie one had a ſeuerall Metrapolitane.

Where he cyteth Gregory Nazianzene, that Cyprian ruled not onelyonly the church off Carthage, but Afrike, Spaine, and almoſte the whole eaſte partes: yt is to be obſerued / that where the D. ſeeketh by ſea and lande / in eueryevery corner for biſhops of the largeſt ſpred / and lōgeſt armes: at the laſte he hathe met with one / which hathe more then he woulde gladly ſhoulde be knowen. for otherwiſe why hathe he concealed the reſte of Gregories ſentence? Why hath he cut of the feet off yt? why hath he pared Nazianzens wordes? Becauſe I hauehave not the booke: I will ſet it downe / as the biſhop of Saliſbury Def. Apol. part. 2. c. 5. d. 1.hath doone. Cyprian vvas a biſhop, the mightieſt and nobleſt off all biſhops. For he had rule not onelyonly ouer the churche off Carthage, and Afrike, vvhichwhich vntill this daie is famous off him, and by his meanes: but ouer all the vveaſt, and in a manner ouer all the Eaſt, likevviſe ouer bothe Northe, and Southe. Thus appeareth he hath in this place / lefte owte both ſowthe and North partes off the worlde / and for that the Biſhop turneth Heſperiam.vveaſt / he turneth Spaine. where if he cōplaine of the biſhops translatiō (althowghe I dowbt not but the biſhop had reaſon / ſeing Heſperia / is oppoſed vntounto the Eaſt): yet if it ſhoulde note any one ſeuerall countrey / yt is like to note Italy. For ſo Ierome writeth / that they vſed in times paſte, to call Heſperiam Italy: eſpecially whē it ys vttered ſimply / withowt addyng vtter moſt. vponupon the 5. ca. off Iſay.nowe all maie vnderſtād that Gregories meaning was not / that Cyprian vvas ruler off all churches in the worlde / in that ſenſe the D. meaneth / and that he had autoritie off an archbiſhop ouer all churches in the world: but that he was famous amongeſt all / and ſowght vntounto for coūſaile frō all partes. Wherby appeareth / that the iuriſdiction biſhops had in times paſte / owte off their certeine congregacions / was nothinge but a reuerent eſtimacion / purchaſed by opiniō of ſingular learninge / and godlines / wherby others willingly / woulde bothe aſke / and folowe their aduiſe / in gouernement off their churches.

And if the D. vvil hauehave Cyprian archbiſhop / and Metrapolitane ouer all thes places: let him anſwer what ſhall becomme off his expoſition / wherby he woulde hauehave eueryevery Archbiſhop in his prouince / to hauehave peereles autoritie / withowt controlemēt of any other Archbiſhop? what off the Prouince of Italy, aſcribed vntounto Cornelius? what off that wherby he ſaithe / none owghte to goe ouer ſea, for triall off cawſes? for althowghe we follow his vaine off interpretacion in all thes / and for a biſhop vnderſtande an archbiſhop / for a churche a Prouince / for the particular place where the quarell riſeth / all that circuite which is not parted by ſea: yet this one aſſertion off his / that Cypriane was Metrapolitane of almoſte all the Eaſte, VVeaſte, Northe, and Sowthe, ouerthroweth whatſoeuer hathe bene ſaide in anie off thoſe poinctes. For the wyde throate off Cyprians Archbiſhopricke / hathe ſwallowed vp all the reſt / and made them all but Suffraganes: and by / this reckening / not onelyonly men muſt paſſe the ſea / but manie ſeas / to hauehave ende off their cawſes. Laſte off all / iff yt be true he beareth vsus in hande: let him tell vsus why the Biſhop off Rome maie not hauehave a ſouueraintie ouer all churches / aſwell as he phanſieth off the biſhop off Carthage? conſidering they are in the ſame / and felowlike degree. Therfore onles he will ouerthrowe all / that euer he hathe gone aboute to eſtabliſhe / in this cauſe: and onles in trauailinge with the Archbiſhop / he will be deliuered off a Pope / and a Pope off the largeſt cyſe / and longeſt laſte: he muſt be compelled whether he will or no / to expounde this worde gouerned, by conſailed, or excelled, or ſome other worde as kolde / and as vnconfortable to the office off a Metrapolitane / or archbiſhop.

Why Illiricus calleth him metrapolitane, I hauehave ſhewed. He ſaithe I forget my ſelfe, which call him in one place metropolitā: they are ſelie contradictions allwaies which he chargeth me with. For he might hauehave remembred that I ſaid / that this worde metropolitane doothe ſignifie nothing but biſhop off the cheife Citie: in which ſenſe I can eaſely aforde Cyprian to be a Metrapolitane / withowte any greate hinderance off my cawſe / or helpe off his. I paſſe the nexte diu. hauing nothing but importunate / and ſhameles begging of thinges in controuerſie. As that Cornelius had a prouince vnderunder him, that Cyprian was Metropolitane, that the place off Cyprian is trwly expounded off an Archbiſhop, that I gyue the Papiſtes aduantage, in ſaying that the place maketh as muche for a Pope, as an archbiſhop, that is to ſaie nothing for ether. VntoUnto the nexte / I hauehave anſwered where I laied open the vanitie off his anſwer / that writers paſſe by the title off archbiſhops: ſauing that it is to be noted / that where the D. hathe before affirmed in plaine wordes / that the name off Pope was commen to all biſhops: here to gyue ſome coulor Diuiſ. 5. Pag. 302.vntounto his anſwer / he woulde make vsus belieue that the name off Pope was commen not vntounto all, but to manie biſhops, &c. what M. Fox ſaithe in that behalfe / I referre yt to the reader. That the name off Pope was commen to all biſhops / beſides the teſtimonies I alledged before / may be ſeene in the biſhop of aIn the 4. article 8. diuiſ.Saliſbury / and M. bConfeſſ. ca. 7. Artic. 12. Diuiſ 5. pag. 357.Beza: which both affirme the ſame.

As the D. coulde frame no argument oute of Cyprians place / for the office off tharchbiſhop / withowte begging: ſo he can not anſwer the reaſons againſte the Archbiſhop owte off Cyprian / withowt the ſame. For where I ſhewed that the whole people mentioned of Cyprian / being not the people of a dioceſe / or Prouince / were notwithſtanding thoſe which Cyprians biſhops gouerned / ād therfore that they were not ouer a dioceſe / or Prouince: he anſwereth that if I hadred any ſtories, I might vnderſtande, that biſhops were choſen onelyonly by the Cytiſens of that place, wherof they were called biſhops, and by no other in their Prouince, or dioceſe. Which is a groſſe anſwer. For althowghe the ſtories off later times (wherin yt is not denied but thes offices were) make ſuche mentiō: yet what is that to our cawſe? whoſe controuerſie is whether yt were ſo in Cyprians times / as in times that folowed. If he can ſhewe any eccleſiaſticall ſtorie off like auncientie vvith Cyprian / that maketh mencion off ſuche election: then he ſaith ſomewhat: yf he can not / he doothe to much abuſe the time / and the reader. And certenly if Cypriā ſaid had no more / but the people chuſe thē biſhops: yet (withowte contrary proofe) he owght by all reaſonable vnderſtanding / be iudged to ſpeake off all that people / ouer which he had gouernement. but when he addeth all the people, he leauethe no controuerſie. And in the ſame place he ſaithe: for the due making Epiſt. li. 4. 1.of Electiōs the nexte biſhops of that Prouince vvhere the place is voide, muſt come vntounto the people ouer vvhom the biſhop is ſet: and the biſhop ovvght to be choſen in the preſence off the people. Vppon which wordes yt maie thus be further reaſoned: that people in whoſe preſence the Biſhop was choſen / was that over which the biſhop was ſet: but the biſhop was choſen in the preſence off the people off one congregacion: therfore the people ouer which the Biſhop was ſet / was the people off one congregacion. The firſte propoſitiō is manifeſte by Cyprians wordes / (the people ouer vvhom the biſhop vvas to be ſet, ovvght to be preſente for election off the biſhop). The ſeconde is alſo cleare: forſomuch as it coulde not be with any conuenience / that all the people off a dioceſe / or Prouince / ſhoulde meete allwaies for the chuſing of their biſhop / eſpecially in time of perſequution. And therin I will refer my ſelfe to the iudgemēt of the reader / how abſurdly the D. ſaith afterward: all the people of a prouince or dioceſe, might meete then withowte perill, or inconuenience. And where he ſaithe there were ſuche metinges at Synodes in thoſe tymes: he is abuſed / conſidering that the churches met not / but their gouernours: and not all / but certeine owte off eueryevery quarter / as he might eaſely knowe by the practiſe off all times. For althowghe it was not denied vntounto priuate men to be preſente at Councells: yet yt was very rare that they were found there in anie number / vnles vpō ſome notable controuerſie: and that not by appointmēt or order takē / as in thelectiō of their biſhop / but onelyonly at their pleaſure.

And if yet the D. be off that boldnes / that withowte any proofe owt of antiquitie / he will expounde this worde all, by ſome, or (as he doothe in the nexte diuiſ.) by manie: and vvhole by parte, and that the ſmalleſt parte: and people by cytizens, to the open violence off Cyprians wordes: yet that all his ſtarting holes maie be ſtopped / let vsus further examin the place of Cyprian / owte of which he woulde confirme the office off the archbiſhop. Neither hauehave hereſies, or ſchiſmes ryſen of other occaſion, then of that the prieſt of God is not obeied, nether one preiſt for the time in the church, and one iudge for the time in ſteede off Chriſt thovvght vpō: to vvhō if the vvhole brotherhood vvould be obediēt &c. To ſhape an archbiſhop / or biſhop ſuch as is with vsus / owte of this place / the D. is cōpelled to expounde this worde church, by Dioceſe, or Prouince, Which if it be truly downe: then thes wordes alſo (the vvhole brotherhoode) muſt be expounded of all thoſe which are in the Prouince / or dioceſe. For both the whole brotherhood are thoſe which belong vntounto that church: and if there ſhould be any moe in Cyprians church / thē thoſe conteined in thes wordes (the vvhole brotherhood): yt were no remedie againſt hereſies / and ſchiſmes / to hauehave the whole brotherhood obedient vntounto the preiſte. Yf I can therfore ſhew / that thes wordes the 1. li. Epiſt. 4.vvhole brotherhood, ſignifie onelyonly one particuler aſſembly: yt muſte folow that nether Cyprians biſhop is an Archbiſhop / nor the churche there ſpecified / a dioceſe / or Prouince / but onelyonly a particular congregacion. In the nexte ſentence therfore / yt is ſaide: in the election off Sabinus, the biſhopricke vvas giuen him, by voice off the vvhole brotherhood. Now conſidering that the whole brotherhood did chuſe Sabinus / and yt is certein that nether the whole Prouince / nor dioces choſe him: yt is manifeſt that thes wordes vvhole brotherhood, with Cyprian ſignifie not the people off a dioces / or Prouince / but off one particular churche.

Againe in Cyprians wordes (hereſies riſe, and ſchiſmes begin, off this that the prieſt off God is not obeyed) is an other argument to proue / that by prieſt muſt needes be vnderſtanded / the miniſter in eueryevery ſeuerall congregation. For ſeing obedience vntounto this prieſt / hindreth the beginning / and ſeed off both hereſies / and ſchiſmes: and this can not be if obedience be giuen onelyonly to one biſhop in adioces / or archbiſhop in a Prouince / onles alſo eueryevery miniſter in his particular congregation be obeied: yt muſt follow / that the prieſt Cyprian ſpeaketh of / is the miniſter off eueryevery particular congregacion. For otherwiſe the remedie againſt hereſies / and ſchiſmes (which his wordes promiſe) doth not follow. For it is diligently to be weighed / that Cyprian ſaith not / hereſies / and ſchiſmes therfore continue in the church / or therfore are not taken away / becawſe the prieſt is not obeied: but riſe, hauehave their ſeedes, and firſt beginning becavvſe, &c. Wheras if he would hauehave ſet forth a biſhop of a dioces / or archbiſhop of a Prouince: he ſhould hauehave ſaied / the cawſes why hereſies / and ſchiſmes are continued: and not why they riſe. Conſidering that the vertue off thes offices / is phanſied to compoſe / and decide ſchiſmes / and hereſies: and that althowgh the people be by them cured off their hereſies / and ſchiſmes / when they are fallen into them: yet they can not by their teachinges / be kept from entrance into them / being ſo far off / and ſeldome or neuer hearing their voice.

Moreouer / as it is ſaied here / there is one prieſt in the church: ſo in an other aCyprian de ſimp. praelato.place / there ovvght to be but one paſtor in one place, and againe / bLi. 1. Epiſt. 3.eueryevery paſtor hath a portion off the floock committed vntounto him, vvheroff he muſt gyue account vntounto the Lord. Yf therfore he will not ſuffer this one prieſt in the church, to be applied to moe then the biſhop off the dioces / and the archbiſhop off the Prouince: yt muſt follow that in Cyprians tyme / there were no paſtors off particular churches. For one paſtor / and one prieſt or Biſhop / being all one in Cyprians language: there can be no moe off the one / then off the other. Laſt off all / it may appeare by the councell of Cathage in Cyprians time / that there were diuers Biſhops off villages / and ſmall townes. For off the number off Biſhops there aſſembled / the names off their townes wheroff they were biſhops / being there ſet downe / are ſcarce fowre / or fiue that are to be found (as I thinck) in any Coſmographer / which reckeneth vp the principall cyties / and townes off Africk: and namely there is expreſſe mencion off one Ianuarius / biſhop off a village called Ceſars village. Thus I truſt yt ys cleare / that by one church, one prieſt, nether an archbiſhop of a Prouince / nor biſhop off a dioces / but onelyonly a miniſter / or biſhop off one particular congregacion / is ſignified. Thaccuſacions off paſsing forgerie, &c. deſerue no anſwer.

I hauehave no where reaſoned, that one ſhould not be rightly choſen Diuiſ. 6. Pag. 358.biſhop, if any be abſent that hauehave intereſt in thelection: my reaſon is / that forſomuch as all the people off Cyprians Biſhop / was by the Eccleſiaſticall diſcipline appointed to be preſent at his choiſe / and by no good order off diſcipline the whole dioces / or Prouince could be ſo appointed: therfore the whole people off Cyprians Biſhop / was nether the people off a dioces / nor Prouince. And where yow hauehave (to ſhew the vanitie of my aſſertion) tranſlated almoſt half a ſide: let the reader conſider to what pourpoſe. For where he noteth that Cornelius was made biſhop, by teſtimonie of his fellow biſhops thorowghowt all the world: I can not tell for what cawſe he ſhould note it. Onles yt be that becauſe the biſhops thorowghowt the world teſtified their agreement by letters vntounto his election / occaſioned therto for that Nouatus denied it to be lawfull: therfore it is not vnlike / that the people of a whole dioces / or prouince were preſent in proper perſon / at the choiſe off the Biſhop / and archbiſhop. And if he ment that: he is far ſhort of his reckening: nether is it made vp by his third note / which I thinck tendeth to the ſame end. For where it ſeemeth that by thes wordes (and good men) he would hauehave it thowght there were other people beſide the cytiſens off Rome / at Cornelius election: the wordes are / of auncient prieſts▪ and good men in the colledge: referring the word colledge, to good men / as wel as to prieſtes. So that by good men he ether meaneth thoſe aunciēt prieſtes / or ſome other eccleſiaſticall companie: where the Anſw. reſtreining colledge vntounto the Prieſtes onelyonly / would hauehave his reader thinck / that the people off the Prouince were gathered thether / to chuſe Cornelius archbiſhop. But this is a wonderfull change / that he which before eſteemed it inconuenient / that a ſeuerall congregacion ſhould… meet to chuſe their paſtor: is now browght into ſuch ſtreightes / that he ſeeketh to make the whole dioces / or Prouince aſſemble / for choiſe off their paſtor. His other note (that Cornelius paſſed thorowgh all eccleſiaſticall offices, &c. vntounto the biſhoprick) is idly put. Whether a preacher was the ſame with a biſhop: belongeth to an other queſtion / and is altogether owt of ſeaſon here. For althowgh an Elder which ruled onelyonly / were inferior vntounto a biſhop: yet therby followeth not / that an Elder which preached / was ſo. Where he ſaith / I falſefie Cyprian, and that yt is too great boldnes to ſay, Priuatus was condemned by 90. Biſhops of one Prouince: the truth is / Cyprian ſaith not they were off one Prouince. But forſomuch as Priuatus was off the ſame Prouince with Cyprian / and controuerſies riſing in eueryevery Prouince / were for the moſte part voided by biſhops of the ſame: onles a generall Councell can be ſhewed / a Prouinciall is preſumed. beſide that / it is vnlike that Cyprian / to then tent he might draw Priuatus into greater hatred / would hauehave omitted that circumſtance off Generall Councell / if it had bene. And where he aſketh / what if there were ſo manie biſhops in one Prouince? whether yt he cōciuded therof / that eueryevery ſeuerall congregacion / had her biſhop: I anſwer that if there were 90. Biſhops in one Prouince off Afrike / and that were obſerued then / which ether the moſte commen practiſe off all times hathe tawght / or which was ordeined after ward in the Councells Carthag 5 ca. 10. Carth. 6. ca. 43.off Afrike / that the Biſhops off euerie Prouince being parted into twoo / or three companies / owte off euerie off them certein ſhould be ſente in the name off the reſte / wherby a greater nomber remained at home / then came to the councel: and that be alſo remembred / that there were diuers places / where there were Nouatian Biſhops: and further that the moſte parte of townes / and cyties being heathen / and Idolatrous had no biſhops at all / as yt was in thoſe daies: Ad hereunto that in Stephen Biſhop off Romes time / which liued in the ſame time with Cyprian / there Auguſti. cont. Gaudent.vvere innumerable catholicke biſhops: Laſtly in thoſe times of perſequutions / the nomber off them which profeſſed the Goſpell in one towne / being for the moſte parte ſofewe / that fowre or fyue of the nexte townes / were ſcarce ſufficient to make a competent aſſembly / hable to mainteine the miniſtrie: I ſaie all thes thinges conſidered / and bound vp together: I thinke yt will appeare vntounto the indifferente reader / that eueryevery congregaciō where the word of God vvas preached / and ſacramētes adminiſtred / had a ſeuerall biſhop. For if they had bene ſuch biſhops as ours / althowgh the whole world had bene Chriſtian: a litle Arithmetick would hauehave ſerued / to count them. Where he ſaith / the Patriarche off Antioche, had 160. Biſhoprickes vndernethe him: yf all thoſe were in one onelyonly Prouince / I am glad to heare of it. If by a Prouince he meane the fourthe parte of the worlde / the Patriarche hauing then gotten vnderunder his gripes / ſo manie metropolitaneſhips: yt was no meruaile althowghe the biſhops vndernethe him / drowned as many biſhoprickes. Beſides that it is ridiculous / to alledge this exāple which was long after / againſt theſtate of Cyprians Biſhop. Where he ſaith / by keping back the place off Cyprian, I gyue ſuſpicion off forgerie: I know not how I could hauehave giuen him more particular knowledge of it, then in telling him / that yt was in the ſame Epiſtle / owte off which both he alledged his ſentence / and I my anſwer.

Firſt I requiring autoritie to proue / that by the worde Diuiſ. 7. pag. 359.churche ys vnderſtanded a Prouince: he anſwereth all learned writers ſo expound yt. He dealeth but hardly vvhichwhich hauing al: will not voucheſafe to ſhewe one. for as for thoſe which he makethe ſhewe of afterwarde: yt ſhall appeare how litle they ſerue his pourpoſe. His nexte anſwer is / that it is no vnacuſtomed thing to call the churche throwghe a prouince, by name of the metrapolitane ſeate of the prouince. If this were accouſtomed / and in thoſe times wherin Cornelius / and Cyprian lyued (for otherwiſe yt is nothing): why doth he let his cauſe fall / for wante of ſhewing yt. For where he ſaithe / he hathe ſhewed yt before: there is no word founding that waies. And Euſebius ſaying that he did fulfill the office off a Biſhop Euſe. li. 7. ca. 2.in the cytie of Rome / will not ſuffer the D. to lurk in that corner: onles paraduenture he will ſay / the church in the cytie off Rome / was ſpred thorowgh the whole Prouince. And when Ruffine ſheweth / that the Biſhop of Rome about a hundred and fiftie yeares after (at what time the Biſhops had ſpred the 1. lib. ca. 6winges of their dominion) had but the churches in the ſuburbs / and round about Rome: is it a like thing / that Cornelius had rule off all churches of Italy? For althowgh the couſtome / whiche the Nicene Councell ſpeaketh of / ſhould hauehave bene euen from Cornelius tyme: yet yt is cleare / that Cornelius had not gouernement off the churches off all Italy / but onelyonly of thoſe in the ſuburbs of Rome. For anſwer vntounto thes bare / and bold ſayinges▪ I refer my ſelf partly to that before ſpoken / that thes vvordes muſt be vnderſtanded nether off Prouince / nor dioces / but onelyonly of particular aſſemblies: partly / to that which followeth.

After I ſaying / that forſomuch as Cornelius, ſaied to hauehave baniſhed one ovvt of his church, could not baniſh him ovvt of the Prouince, therfore church ād Prouīce be diuers: he anſwereth / thowgh he could not baniſh him owt off the prouince, yet he might excō municate him, frō the cōgregatiō thorowghowt the Prouince. wherin beſide that he ſtill preſuppoſeth an archbiſhop / which is in cōtrouerſie / whileſt he gyueth Cornelius power to excommunicate / thorowgh the whole Prouince: he is alſo deceiued / that thincketh by thes wordes / is ment that Cornelius did excommunicate Felinus. For he was excommunicated before / by the Biſhops off Africk: ſo that Cornelius had not to doo / to excommunicate him. Where for confirmacion of his anſwere / he aſketh / whether he forcibly ſhut him owt of the locall church of Rome: I anſwer / that if he had remembred that there were then doorekepers / to withſtand thoſe that cut from the church / would enter in: he ſhould not hauehave thought it ſo ſtraunge a thing / that Heretikes vvere ſhut forth from the locall church: eſpecially ſeing he ſeemeth to hauehave allowed dorekepers / as officers neceſſarie for thoſe times. And althowgh it were permitted vntounto heretikes by Cornelius / and his fellowes / to enter into the locall church: yet he might hauehave conſidered / that when they offered them ſelues vntounto the lordes table / Cornelius with his aſſiſtance owght to ſee them remoued. Seing therfore this not ſuffring of Feliciſſimus to enter into the church / is no excommunication / (as the D. ſaith) and carieth neceſſarily with yt / that which Cornelius coulde not doo / throwghe the Prouince / but onelyonly in place where he was preſent: yt muſte folow / that by the worde churche, where this was doone / a particular place muſte be vnderſtanded / and not as is ſuppoſed / ether dioceſe / or Prouince.

Where I ſhewed / that foraſmuche as by churche is mente the place, vvhere the poenitents confeſſed their faultes, that being nether dioceſe / nor Prouince / but a particular congregation / the word church alſo muſt note a particular congregation: the D. anſwereth / that forſomuch as Nouatus denied forgiuenes vntounto the fallen, the meaning off Cyprian is nothing els, but that Nouatus did not receiue thē, into the generall and catholike church off Chriſt. Wherin he hath cleane ouerturned the meaning off Cyprian / which is not to ſhewe (as he ſaith) that Nouatus woulde not ſuffer thoſe that had fallen / to be receiued into the lap of the church (which thinge was notoriouſly knowen of it ſelfe): but to ſhew / what were the impieties vvhichwhich waited vppon that hereſie / amongeſt which he placeth thys / that therby publicke confeſſion off faultes / to be made in eueryevery particuler congregacion (a ſingular exerciſe off pietie / and true worſhip of God) was quite taken awaie. And wherfore in translating my wordes to no pourpoſe / nor to no aduantage off his / hath he paſſed by ſo ſlyly thoſe wordes / the threſhoulde off the church? For if by confeſſion of faultes in the churche / Cyprian meane the generall / and catholike churche off Chriſte: I would gladly know off hym / whether the catholike churche off Chriſt hauehave a threſhould: and if it hauehave / where he will aſſigne it.

Laſte off all / where as owte of thes wordes off Cyprian / they dare nor approche the threſhould off the churche, but vvander abroade in the Prouince, I conclude that the worde churche, can not be taken for the Prouince / being oppoſed vntounto yt: he anſwereth / that Cyprian dothe oppoſe there / the churche vntounto heretikes / and not vntounto a Prouince. This is ſtraunge / that by a churche / Cyprian muſte meane a Prouince: and by the worde Prouince, he muſt not meane a Prouince. and in ſaying / they roued abovvte the Prouince to deceiue, and ſpoile the brethren: yt is cleare that by Prouince / are not vnderſtāded the heretikes in the Prouince; for brethrē be not heretikes. Where he would gyue to vnderſtande / that the Prouince (yf yt be Chriſtened) being the churche, can not be oppoſed vntounto the churche: in deede yf by oppoſed, were mē te contrarie / he had ſaide truly. but when by oppoſed, or ſet againſte / he coulde not be ignorant but I mente that which was diuers: he might hauehave knowne / that as a Chriſtian dioceſe maye be oppoſed vntounto a Chriſtian Prouince: ſo a particular Chriſtian churche / maye be oppoſed vntounto ether off bothe.

I would yow would omit nothing which might make for yowr Diuiſ. 8. Pag. 361.pourpoſe: but I woulde wiſh that yow woulde not repete one thing ſo often. For if they had no good taſt at the firſt: ſurely by this often ſeathing / they are altogether vnſauory. Cyprians matter is anſwered: the diuiſion of eccleſiaſticall functions into three degrees / biſhop / Elder (as yow ſay prieſt) and Deacon / I hauehave Diuiſ 3. pag. 320.ſhewed to make flatly againſt yow. There remaineth here / that I anſwer vntounto Demetrius. vvhichwhich was about the yeare off the Lorde 291. Who if he were biſhop off ſo many churches / as is ſuppoſed: there is the greater likelihood / that in Cyprians time there might be biſhops of the ſame breede. Firſt if I graunt that he had ſuch a ſuperintendence / ouer all the pariſhes off Alexandria and Egypt / as Cyprian is ſaied of Gregorie Nazienzen / almoſt ouer all the world: that is / that for his learning and godlines / he was ſowght to off all the biſhops of thoſe partes: the Anſw. ſeeth he can gaine nothing therby / to ſettle ether his biſhop / archbiſhop / or Metropoliran. But I anſwer / that he hath vnfaithfully reported Euſebius / yea and that alſo pretending to ſet downe the autors wordes: as appeareth / for that he hath ſet them in latin. Euſe. 6. li. ca. 1.Euſebius very wordes are thes. Laetus vvas then gouernour off Alexandria, and the reſt of Aegypt: and Demetrius then, nevvly after Iuliane, receiued vponupon him the Biſhops office off the pariſhes there. Here yt appeareth that Euſebius ſaith / that Laetus the magiſtrat / gouerned bothe Alexandria, and Agypt: but ſpeaking of the Biſhoprick off Demetrius / onelyonly ſaith / he vvas Biſhop off the pariſ hes there. which when by common conſtruction / yt maye be aſwell referred vntounto Alexandria onelyonly / or vntounto the reſte off Egypte onelyonly / or to bothe together: yt was to greate boldnes / not onelyonly to gather this ſenſe of Euſebius / but alſo to bringe him in ſo ſpeaking. But that the worde there, can not be referred vntounto the reſte off Aegypte / but onelyonly hathe relation vntounto the pariſhes off Alexandria / and that as there are no ſuche wordes as yow aſcribe vntounto Euſebius / ſo there can be no ſuche ſenſe as yow Imagin: yt may eaſely and clearly be vnderſtanded off that before / and after. For if nether the biſhops of Alexandria before Demetrius / nor thoſe after him vntounto the times wherin Cyprian / and Cornelius liued / had that Iuriſdiction ouer Egipt which yow Imagin: then by all reaſonable vnderſtanding / yt muſte be eſtemed that this worde (there) owght to be reſtreined vntounto Alexandria.

Abilius / the thirde Biſhop off Alexandria after Marke had bene in that churche / about the yeare of our Lorde a 100. Euſebius Euſeb. 3. li. 21. ca. Euſeb. 4. li. ca. 1. lib. 21. ca.affirmeth to hauehave bene biſhop off the pariſhe off Alexandria, but of the other partes of Egypt maketh no mētion. He ſaith the ſame off Primus / ſucceding him in that biſhoprick off Alexandria: the ſame off ali. 4. c 4.Iuſtus / which ſucceded Primus: the ſame of b4. li. c. 5.Eumenes which ſucceded him: the ſame off an other c4. li. c. 11Marke which ſucceded him: the ſame of d4 li c. 19Celadion which ſucceded him: the ſame off Agrippa / whō alſo he calleth e5. li. 9. c.Agripinus which ſucceded him. And where ſpeaking off all the former he ſaide / they vvere biſhops off the Pariſhe off Alexandria: off f5. li. c. 9.Iuliane which ſucceded Agripinus he ſaith / he gouerned the churches in, or at Alexandria vttering the ſame thinge by diuers wordes. VntoUnto this Iuliane ſucceded Demetrius / off whom is ſaide as before hathe bene ſhewed, yea off thoſe which ſucceded Demetrius / as famous / and as renoumed as he: there is no ſuche thinge. For off g6. li. c. 29receiued the miniſterie vvhichwhich vvas at Alexandria: likewiſe of h6. li. c. 35Dioniſius which ſucceded Heracles / that he receiued the gouernement of the churches vvhichwhich vvere at Alexandria which Dionyſius liued abowte the times off our Cyprian / and Cornelius / which we hauehave preſently in hande.

When therfore the Biſhops of Alexandria ſo famous / are not red to hauehave had biſhoply autoritie off anie Prouince / but are conteined within the circuit off one citie / vntill the time off Cyprian / and Cornelius: yt appeareth not onelyonly that the D. hathe bene abuſed in thes wordes off Euſebius: but that this owght to be an other marke to know / that nether Cyprian / nor Cornelius had any Biſhoplicke autoritie at all / further then the cyties wherin their churches were. And withall appeareth the cawſe / why Euſeb. did no more particularly / reſtreine the biſhoprick off Demetrius vntounto Alexandria: namely for that he had ſo often ſpoken before of the precinctes of that biſhoprick. The next diu. hath nothing worth anſwer: being onelyonly that which I in few wordes ſubſcribed vntounto. Sauing this / that Cyprian was Pupianus biſhop: which maketh nether whot / nor kolde vntounto this queſtion: ſeing that Pupianus was no biſhop / but one that ſometime had bene off Cyprians churche. But of anſwer to my argument (that foraſmuche as Cyprian condemneth the pride of Pupian, for that his deede vvas like, as if one ſhould be appointed biſhop of a biſhop, or iudge of iudge: there is no newes. wheras if yt were not a proude thinge / to be biſhop of a biſhop / &c. Cypr. did with no good aduiſe / ſet owte the faulte of Pupian by thoſe wordes. And that Cyprian complaineth not off any wronge doone to him as archbiſhop (which the Anſ. afraied to affirme / would hauehave his reader thinck.) but onelyonly as he was Biſhop yt appeareth manifeſtly by diuers places / in that he denieth that he preſſed him vvith further autoritie, then that vvhichwhich all biſhops had by ſucceſsion vntounto the Apoſtels. That Cyprian did not obiecte this, to appointe hym ſelfe biſhop of a biſhop, as a prowde name, but as a prowde deede: is a poore exception. for if yt were a prowde deede / to exerciſe the office off biſhop ouer a biſhop: yt muſte be alſo a proude name / to be called the biſhop: off a biſhop.

The Anſw. wordes carie no meaning with them / to cōclude that which this cawſe requireth. For what meaneth this / one biſhop Diuiſ. 10. &c. pag. 362. &c.off a Prouince, had no autoritie ouer another, but were equall? what is this to my reaſon? which is, that forſomuche as the godly vvriters proue the equalitie off the biſhop off Rome vvith other biſhops, for that they called one another fellovves, and brethren: the biſhops off dioceſes, and metropolitanes calling one an other fellovv biſhop, fellovv in office, brother, &c, doo therby declare that there vvas none vvhichwhich ruled ouer an other. For onles the reaſon be firme in the one: yt is not good in the other. But he anſwereth further / Cyprian in calling the biſhops off his Prouince fellow biſhops, and brethren, declared therby the function to be all one. So may the Papiſtes anſwer / that the Biſhop off Rome called the Biſhops his fellowes / and brethren / becawſe they had the ſame function / and not in that for pollicie ſake they were not ſubiect vntounto him. But as that / ſo this is an abſurd anſwer. The Godly writers vſe not this reaſon / to proue that other biſhops exerciſed the ſame miniſterie off the word and Sacramentes / with the biſhop of Rome (which the Pope him ſelf confeſſeth): but to proue that they were not vnderunder / but off the ſame autoritie with him / which he denieth. The next anſwer (Cyprian in calling them duplicate page duplicate page fellow biſhops declareth his humble ſpirit) is I doubt not / althowgh I can not preſently note the place / another buckler off the Papiſtes againſte this reaſon. As if true humilitie did hinder any / to take that honour which his lawfull office ether in churche / or commen wealth doth put vponupon him.

He further anſwereth / that S. Peter calling the Biſhops, and Paſtors to whom he wrote fellow Elders, was notwithſtanding higher in degree then they. I graunt: but I denie that therfore S. Peter could exerciſe dominion ouer them. When it is ſaied that fellow biſhop importeth equalitie: yt is not ment ſo much for honour / as for equalitie in autoritie that one hath ouer an other. For in honour the biſhop off Rome had ſome preeminence ouer the Alexandrine / &c. yt being graunted him to hauehave the firſt ſeat in meetinges / which notwithſtanding had no dominion. Therfore this maketh directly againſt the dominion off Archbiſhops. For if Peter in degree off miniſtrie aboue the paſtors / in calling them fellow elders renounced dominion ouer them: how much more owght they forbeare to vſe dominion ouer thoſe / with whom they carie the ſame yoke / and degree off miniſtrie? To that owt off Cyprian (none of thē toke him ſelf biſhop off biſhops) he anſwereth / he meaneth the title off vniuerſall biſhop: which how abſurdly it is ſpoken / in diu 28. Pag. 342.may appeare by that ^a before ſpoken off the Africane Councell. His ſecond anſwer is a pinch at Cyprians autoritie / for that thes wordes were vttered off him in that Councell, where an error was decreed, wherof hs was cheif autor. Where he might with as good right / reiect all that euer Cypriā wrote. For albeit this were ſpokē in that Councell: yet yt no more perteineth / nor hathe no more acquaintance with that error / then this that we are iuſtified by faithe alone. Yf he woulde conclude that Cyprians autoritie is no ſufficiente proofe / conſidering that being a man he might erre in this pointe / as he did in another: it is that we willingly graunte / and therfore call / and crie vponupon the D. as loude as we can / that the whole cauſe may be tried by the ſcripture: from which he flieth / as Darckenes before the face off the light.

His thirde is: by thes wordes none taketh on hym to be the biſhop off biſhops, he mente that one biſhop ſhoulde not tyrannically rule ouer another. which is vntrew: for Cypr. addeth that / as an either thinge likewiſe forbidden. So that where he ſaith / none dothe ether make him ſelfe biſhop off biſhops, or bynde his fellovves by tyrannicall feare: the D. off twoo ſentences maketh one / and Cyprians or, he expoundethe that is to ſay. But doeth he not ſee / how ſtill he miniſtreth weapons vntounto the Papiſtes / by this friuolous anſwer? for vntounto the godly learned writers / alledging this place to proue that the biſhops off Rome hauehave no autoritie ouer other biſhops / the Papiſtes may anſwer with the D. that all that is mente off tyrannicall autoritie. Fouthly he ſaith / thes wordes EueryEvery biſhop hathe ftee libertie, and free iudgment off his ovvne povver, are not mente off iuriſdiction, but of iudgement, and opinion. As if there were les daunger / in letting a biſhop holde what opinion he thincketh good / withowt controlement of an other biſhop: then in letting him gouerne his churche as him ſemeth beſt / withowte the ſame controlement. So that herin the D. flying from the ſmoke / falleth into the fire. The vanitie off which anſwer appeareth alſo / by that in aCypr. do ſimp. praelat.an other place where he ſaith: there is but one biſhopricke vvheroff eueryevery biſhop holdeth one part, bin ſolidum.vvholy, fully, in all reſpectes. Likewiſe in an cIn the ſame Treatiſe.other place he ſaith / he holdeth his biſhoprick off Chriſt, vvho is the cheif biſhop. And moſt plainly it is confuted by that I hauehave alledged owt off dlib. 2. Epiſt. 1.Cyprian: Where in expreſſe wordes / he referreth this freedome off power which eueryevery Biſhop hath / not (as the D.) to the biſhops opinion, but vntounto the gouernement off his church.

Where for confirmacion off thes anſwers he ſaith / otherwiſe a biſhop ſhould be exempted from all controlement off Synodes, and other, as well as of archbiſhops: the anſwer is eaſy. For althowgh Cyprian ſay no one Biſhop can be iudged off an other biſhop: yet he denieth not but he may be iudged off the church. And althowgh no one biſhop hauehave autoritie ouer him: yet a Councell off biſhops may correct him. And that this is one off thoſe iudgementes off Chriſt Cyprian ment off / and that in thoſe wordes he doth not reſerue the iudgement off the biſhop offending / vntounto the day of the general iudgemēt: may be ſhewed by that he ſaith / Chriſt ſet thē biſhops in their charges. As therfore Cyprian calleth the placing off a biſhop in his charge by the churche / by the elders theroff / and the next biſhops / the placing of Chriſt: ſo he meaneth that iudgement giuen againſt a biſhop offending / by the church / and Synodes / is the iudgement of Chriſt. That owt off Cyprian / wherin the weight off the argument lyeth (eueryevery Biſhop muſte rule his ovvne flock him ſelf, as he that ſhall make account off his deed vntounto the Lord) he paſſeth by. After to the wordes off Cyprian (that nether he, nor his fellovves vſed compulſion tovvardes any, appointed any lavv to any: ſeing that eueryevery one ſet ouer the church, hathe in gouernement theroff free diſpoſition 2. l. Epiſt. 1.of his owne will / werof he ſhall gyue accoumpte vntounto the lorde: (he ſaith / I left owte that which gyueth the ſolution / and therupō according to his couſtome / picketh a quarell to tranſlate the whole ſentence: Yet nether ſheweth one word / nor can ſhew lefte owte / to make for him / againſt me. OnelyOnly he ſaithe vndowtedly Cyprian in ſaing he would not deale with other biſhops, &c. meaneth thoſe churches and biſhops which he had nothing to doo with: which is very ſtraunge / ſeing he hath before made him archbiſhop / almoſt ouerall the world.

After he ſaith / he would not hauehave ſuffered them if they had bene off his owne charge: which is a groſſe begging off that in queſtion. for yt is debated whether he had any biſhops vnderunder his charge. And what manner off interpretacion is this / vve do violence to none, nor appointe lavves to none, that is to none in other Prouinces? and eueryevery biſhop hathe povver of the gouernment of of his ovvne churche, that is eueryevery biſhop owte off Cyprians prouince? what a kold ſaying ſhould this be / that nether he / nor any of his fellowes / vſed violence towardes biſhops off other Prouinces? With whom they hauing ſo ſmall intercommuning / could ſcarce vſe violence if they would. Or to ſay they appointed no lawes / to vvhom they had no coulor to gyue any? And as this interprepretacion hauing lien in the Anſ. rack / is pulled owt of all the ioyntes; ſo that it is vtterly falſe / may appeare by that before alledged / owt off the Councell off Carthage: Where wordes of like effect are vttered by Cyprian / vntounto the biſhops off the ſame Prouince he was of. Laſt of all / becawſe I may not hauehave that credite which the Anſ. to vnderſtand this place off Cyprian: yet I truſt In loc. commu. c. de poteſt. miniſt.he vvill belieue Muſculus. Who of this place / and others concludeth / that vvhen Cyprian vvrote, he did neuer ſo much as think off the povver off Patriarches, off Metropolitanes, off the biſhop off Rome: but eſteemed that all biſhops ovvght to hauehave like care, and povver, eueryevery one in his ovvne church. So beſide this teſtimonie / that Cyprians prieſt was nether Patriarch / nor Metropolitane: he hathe alſo that he was biſhop of one church / which is that I hauehave affirmed. For the autoritie vvhichwhich the archbiſhops / and biſhops hauehave ▪ there is an other place: yt is ſufficient here to ſhew / that they had no iuriſdiction one ouer an other in Cyprians times. That owt off Cyprian / towching miniſters ſacrificing: is before anſwered.

To Cyprian ſaying / the vnitie off the church is interteined Diuiſ. 12. Pag. 364.by conſent off biſhops one vvith an other: the D. anſwereth / they agree neuer the worſe by hauing a ſuperior aboue them Albeit they agree neuer the worſe / yet if they agree neuer the better: he owght as an vnprofitable tree / which occupieth place in the lordes orchard / be rooted owt. Althowgh it ſhal (God willing) appeare / that the Archbiſhops office is the knife which cut the cordes off vnitie: which both was / and otherwiſe might hauehave bene mainteined / amongeſt the biſhops. The firſt reaſon why tharchbiſhop is neceſſarie / is: becauſe there may be one to aſſemble them together. As pag. 392.thowgh that was not doon before that office was heard off: or it could not be doon conueniently without an archbiſhop / by appointing one amongeſt them at eueryevery off their Synodes / who ſhould hauehave autoritie to call the Synode following. Which is likewiſe anſwer to his next reaſon / of putting them in minde off their duties. Al this may be ſeē / not onelyonly by practiſe of reformed churches in diuers places / Fraunce eſpecially (where Synodes are aſſembled from all partes of the realme twiſe a yeare / notwithſtanding al that dominiō of one miniſter ouer an other / pulled vp by the rotes): but alſo in the primitiue church / by that recited of one Malchion. Euſe. li. 7 ca. 3.Who being a ſimple Elder (ſo far from the eſtate of a… Archbiſhop / that he was not Biſhop) was preſident in the Councell off Antioch / aſſembled againſt Samoſatenus hereſie. If a ſimple Elder might gouerne the Biſhops: yt ſhall be to great ſhame for them / not to ſuffer them ſelues to be gouerned for the time by one of their owne order / withowt making an archbiſhop. Wherby appeareth how vntollerable the D. is: which condemneth this order as inconuenient / confuſed / diſordered.

Where he ſaith / it can not be but a great help, that one hauehave cheif care of preſcruacion of vnitie: the office off an archbiſhop can put no further care for the church vponupon any / then the Lord putteth on hym by vertue off the office off biſhop. For if the gouernement off his owne church / take not vp all his thowghtes / and cares: whatſoeuer is left / is due vntounto other churches by ordinance off the lord. Forſomuche therfore as eueryevery biſhop in the Prouince by calling off God / careth to the vttermoſt of his power / for the churches wherūto he is aſſociated / and tharchbiſhop can doo no more then what lieth in his power: it followeth that there can be no calling off men / which can ad vntounto his care for this vnitie. If he ſaie that this inſtitucion off men / cauſeth the care cōmaunded off god / the rather performed: firſte yt is vntrue. for althowghe the ordinances off men / maie gyue a prick to the doynge off thinges owtwarde: yet they are not hable to moue the conſciēce / and inwarde affections / wheroff the care he ſpeaketh off / is a fruicte. Then yf it had ſuche force / as to awake his care: yet that ſhoulde be with no aduantage vntounto the churches of the Prounce / forſomuche as that woulde giuegive occaſion vntounto other biſhops / off diminiſhing theirs: whileſt they phanſie with them ſelues a ſtreighter bonde / to prouide for the vnitie off the churche in the archebiſhop / then in them ſelues. And ſo the care by this meanes reuiued in one / ſhoulde die in a great nomber. where he addeth / as yt is in other ſocieties: yt hathe bene ſhewed that our Sauiour Chriſt / forbad that rule off one miniſter ouer an other in the churche / which maie be vſed in the common wealth. Althowghe I hauehave anſwered further vntounto this pointe / where thoſe ſocieties are particularly ſpecified.

Where he aſketh / what if the biſhops were deuided amōgeſt them ſelues? who ſhould compounde their controuerſies? He hathe his anſwer / that he may call them together / in whoſe hande the laſte Synode lefte that autoritie? And what yf the archbiſhop him ſelfe draw owte off his trace / and be ether deuided from all the biſhops / or from the better / and ſounder parte / ſtanding this goodly order, who ſhall range him? And when the D. ſaithe that tharchbiſhop can not deale for appeaſing off controuerſies / but by perſuaſion: and that compoſition which is made by intreatie off parties / maie be made conueniently by equals / what needethe there any ſuperior archbiſhop? How vntruly the Anſ. writeth / off the archbiſhops and biſhops autoritie in our church / to hyde the hornes off their immoderate power / both in this diuiſ. and that before: the eyes / and eares off all men are witnes. But as he ſerueth tharchbiſhops / and biſhops in this defenſe: ſo for recompenſe off his paines / he maketh them waite vponupon him: and hauing now ſet them on horſeback by and by for ſhift of anſwer / he maketh them light / and goe a foote with their fellowes.

Cyprian ſaith the cauſe muſte be heard, vvhere the faulte Diuiſ. 13. pag. 363.vvas committed. the D. that is to be vnderſtanded of the Prouince, or dioceſe. as if it were not hearde within the prouince / and dioceſe: when yt is hearde within that particular churche / where the controuerſy groweth. Therfore to make good his anſwer / thus he muſt interprete thes wordes (there vvhere the faulte vvas committed it ſhall be heard): wherſoeuer in the Prouince / or dioceſe the faulte is committed / yt muſt be hearde at the archbiſhops or biſhops palace. The firſte interpretacion is cōtrarie to the proprietie of ſpeache. For ſeing matter riſing in a particular church / is ſaide properly to riſe there where yt was doone / and can not but improperly / and by figure be ſaide to riſe in the Prouince / or foreign.dioceſe: yt is manifeſt that Cyprian is made withowte any neceſſitie / to ſprake improperly. As for the nexte interpretacion / yt is cleane contrary to Cyprians meaning. For when he will hauehave the matter there handled / where they may hauehave bothe accuſers, and vvitnes. that can be by no meanes vnderſtoode off the Archbiſhops / or biſhops conſiſtory. For the parties hauehave not their witneſſes / ād accuſers there / whether they are cōſtreined with greaate charges / and longe iorneis to tranſporte them. Where he ſaith Cyprian ſpeaketh againſte thoſe which wente from Africk into Italie: I preuented that / ſhewing the reaſon is generall / and ſeruing aſwell againſte thoſe / which will pull their cauſes vntounto their hearing which dwell a 100. or 200. miles off them / as againſte thoſe which carie them from one contrey to an other: wherunto he anſwereth nothing. For if there ſhoulde be a bare oppoſition / betwene Africke / and Rome / and not rather betweene the place where the cōtrouerſie riſeth / and that far of: as lawfull as yt ys for him to ſay / Cyprian meaneth not a particular churche where the cawſe riſeth, but the dioceſe, or Prouince: ſo lawfull ys yt for me to ſaie / that he meaneth nether dioceſe / nor prouince but onelyonly that quarter which makethe the fourth parte of the worlde. So that by this meanes / the cauſe riſing in Mauritania / maie be iudged in Aethiopia: which is more then 10. times farther a ſonder thē Rome frō Carthage. And conſequently yt ſhould follow / that any controuerſy riſing in the churche off Englande / may be determined at Rome being a parte off Europe / as at the place (by his anſwer) where the cauſe roſe.

Where he ſaith / there ys no Prouince with vsus where bothe the accuſers, and witneſſes may not be browght: I graunt / if they come and leaue their buſines at home: yf they die not by the way: if the parties be able to beare their charges. And with thes conditions they may be browght further. And by this expoſition off the Anſ. the triall made in paſſing the ſeas / which the councell off Africk after forbad / may be a great deale more commodious / then the archbiſhops. For they which dwell by the ſeaſide / may both with more eaſe / and leſſe charges hauehave end of their matters in Callis / Deep / Ireland / and Flaunders / then at Canterbury. Yea the triall from Carthage vntounto Rome / is much eaſier: ſeing there was but three daies iorney betwene Rome / and Carthage. As appeareth by that Cato / to induce the Senate of Rome to deſiroy Carthage: held ovvt a fig ſaying, that vvas but the third day, ſithēs that fig grevv in Carthage. Therfore Cyprians argument (by his interpretacion) Plin. Nat. hiſt. li. 15. cap. 18.is not worth a ſhoe buckle / to proue that they owght not to flie from Carthage to Rome the paſſage being eaſter / then from one end of a Prouince to an other. Eſpecially making ſuche large Prouinces as he doth: that is / one to cōteine 160. biſhoprickes, pag. 359.belike ſuch as ours. Where he ſaith / this reaſon may ſerue as well againeſt VVeſtminſter hall: leauing that as impertinent vntounto this queſtion / it ſhall be ſufficiēt to anſwer / that beſides that there be many cauſes ended in lower courtes / houldē almoſt in eueryevery village: he owght to vnderſtand / that eccleſiaſticall cauſes are to be handled with greater ſpeed then ciuill: matters of conſciēce / more then of the pourſe: the title of heauēly inheritance / more then the earthly: of the life to come / then of this. So that althowgh the trial of ciuill cawſes for the whole realme / were (as he ſaith) neceſſary a… Weſtminſter: yet the ſame reaſon will not ſtand in eccleſiaſticall.

In all thes places which the Anſ. hath browght owt off Diuiſ. 13. pag. 365.Cyprian / Euſebius / Socrates / it is manifeſt that one biſhop, is oppoſed vntounto heretick biſhops. Whereby may appeare how like it is which I hauehave alledged / that by one biſhop / is vnderſtanded not the vnitie off nombre / but off truth in religion. And that there be no doubt hereof / let Cyprians wordes be conſidered. That Cypri. Epiſt. 8. li. 1.there ſhould be an other altar appointed, and a nevv prieſthood beſides one altar, and one prieſthood, it can not be. VVhatſoeuer he be vvhichwhich gathereth īn an other place, ſcattereth: yt is adulterous, yt is vvicked, yt is ſacriledge, vvhatſoeuer the rage off men doth inſtitute, vvherby the ordinance off God is broken. Now except the Anſ. will ſay it is wicked / againſt the word of God / adulterous / to hauehave two biſhops in one citie: yt muſt follow that Cyprians wordes doo not bar many biſhops to be in one citie. And what if it be ſhewed / that not onelyonly in Cyprians time / but in Cyprians church there were diuers biſhops? Auguſtine ſpeaking of the Donatiſtes / which ſeperated them ſelues from the church / for that they ſaw certein faultes vnpuniſhed therin / ſaith: Hovv did then Cyprian, and other the Lordes corne in that church (meaning Carthage) of vnitie eate the Lordes breade, Auguſt. 3. li ad Parm. 2. ca.and drink his cup, not vvith the people onelyonly, or commen ſort off the Clergie: but vvith the biſhops themſelues, vvhichwhich vvere couetous ketchers, and vvhichwhich ſhall not poſſeſſe the kingdome off heauen? I woulde gladly vnderſtand what Biſhops they were like to be / with vvhom Cyprian did celebrate the ſupper off the Lord. were they not Biſhops off the churche off Carthage? If they were: it appeareth I hauehave not ſo vainly expounded Cyprian / as the Anſ. would beare his reader in hand. And althowgh the D. be not able to proue / that ther was but one onelyonly biſhop in a citie in Chyſoſtomes time: yet I graunt that was obſerued in the moſte places.

Whether I am able to ſhew that from Chriſtes time there were two Biſhops in one cytie, before appeared: now appeareth what a vaine crack it was / that all the godlieſt, and beſt learned expound Cyprians wordes off an Archbiſhop, when not one can be found to teſtifie it. Yet to thend he may hauehave ſome thing to mainteine this brag / he goeth about to make the writers differ from them ſelues. For if this place be off the autoritie that eueryevery biſhop hath in his dioces (as writers doo flatly affirme / in ſo much that the aArtic. 4. diuiſ. 5.biſhop off Saliſbury bringeth in Cyprian ſpeaking after this ſort: For eueryevery biſhop (ſaith Cyprian) vvithin his ovvne dioces, is the prieſt of God, &c): then yt cannot be vnderſtanded of an Archbiſhop. For the autoritie Cyprian ſpeaketh off / being the higheſt / and ſuch as could not be controlled of any other biſhop: yt muſt neceſſarily ſeclude tharch biſhops autoritie / which is aboue a biſhop. And as the Anſw. to make Cyprians place ſerue his turne / was compelled to expound Prieſt archbiſhop, church Prouince: ſo to make the biſhop and M. Fox help to beare owt his folies / he muſt expound dioces Prouince / and Biſhop archbiſhop. And what man̄er of proofe is this / to cōclude the greater by the leſſe? yf of an archbiſhops autoritie he had concluded a biſhops / it had bene more probable: but off a biſhops to conclude an archbiſhops / and off dominion ouer a dioces (as he pretendeth) to conclude dominion ouer one Prouince / is far owt off ſquare. The next is anſwered in the beginning.

The firſt place is / that the biſhop vponupon that of Cyprian, ſaith: confuſion, and ſectes riſe in a Prouince, or dioces, vvhere the Biſhops Diuiſ. 15. pag. 367.autoritie, &c. Here becauſe the biſhop maketh mention off Prouince: he concludeth that he ſpeaketh off an archbiſhop. As if his wordes may not well be taken / that the confuſion of ſecres inſueth in a whole Prouince thorowghowt / becauſe the biſhops autoritie which be therī / is diſpiſed. For beſide that I hauehave ſhewed that the biſhop can not (ſauing his former ſentence which he ſoft repeateth) expound Cyprians place off an archbiſhop: if he had in this place ment an archbiſhop / it had bene eaſie to hauehave coupled him with his Prouince / as he doth the biſhop with his dioces. He aſketh me what I call him, that hath gouernement off a Prouince? I aſke him where the biſhop off Sal. ſaith / Cyprians place is to be vnderſtood of that biſhop / which hath gouernement off a Prouince? doth the onelyonly mention of the word Prouince▪ infer an Archbiſhop? If he proue an Archbiſhop / and Prouince relatiues / ſo that a man can not name the one / but he muſte vnderſtand the other: he ſaith ſome thing. Ad alſo that the Anſ. dealeth vnfaithfully in this place. For the biſhop making his concluſion both off Cyprian / and of a place off Honorius / Emperour: he propoundeth it as the concluſion of Cyprians place onelyonly. Whereas if he could conclude off thes wordes (vvithin a prouince) an archbiſhop: yet yt were eaſie to anſwer / that the biſhop put in thoſe wordes / in reſpect of the place cyted owt of the Emperour / and not in reſpect off Cyprians. Conſidering that within a douſen lines after / he affirmeth / that Cyprians place is vnderſtanded off thautoritie off a Biſhop within his ſeuerall dices: and by vvhole Brotherhood, a companie vvithin a ſeuerall dioces.

For that off M. Novvell pag. 33. beſide that whatſoeuer he ſpeaketh there / is not vponupon this place of Cyprian / but of an other: I hauehave ſhewed in the former booke / that cheif Prelate ys not alwaies vſed for a biſhop. And that it is not altogether vnlike but M. Nowell might meane ſo / appeareth by that the D. cyteth owt off the 62. and 63. pag. wherehe taketh cheif prieſt and biſhop, for the ſame. Howbeit becauſe the autor him ſelfe ys aliue / and knoweth beſt what he meaneth: I am well content the meaning off his wordes be ſuch / as him ſelf ſhall beſte like off. Out off M, Fox he can not finde ſo much as a fig leafe / and therfore telleth vsus how he ſaith, Rome vvas a patriarchall church, and therfofore not vnlike but Carthage was alſo: how by a dioces is ment a Prouince, and forſomuch as he allowed an archbiſhop, yt is like he expounded Cyprians place of an archbiſhop. The onelyonly reherſall is too long a confutation. In the end are recited at large the wordes of M. Philpot. which attributing vntounto Cyprian a dioces / declareth that he eſteemed him a biſhop / not an archbiſhop. For that he calleth him the Nouatians cheif Biſhop: yt is far from the eſtate of an archbiſhop. He might well call him ſo in reſpect of his ſingular learning / and pietie: or in that he was biſhop off the cheifeſt place in Afrik. And the ſame may be ſaied off Cornelius being Patriarch. For otherwiſe in autoritie he could not be: ſeing him ſelf confeſſeth / that patriarches were appointed at the councell off Nice / about 150. years after. Albeit the truth is / that the appointement of thoſe 4. patriarchall ſeates / was not by the Councell off Nice / but off Calcedon. Nether doth it follow that if Cornelius were a Pairiarch / therfore he was Prince off many biſhops: onles he will ſay that becawſe aTertull. aduerſ. Hermog.Tertullian calleth Philoſophers Patriarches off Heretikes, and bIerom. praef. in Tit.Ierome Tacianus, the Patriarch of Encratites: therfore Philoſophers / and Tacianus bore dominion ouer the Heretikes / or Encratites. He might be ſo called in that he was cheif father of the church off Rome / where he executed his office: as cIerom. in 3. cap. Iſay.Ierome witneſſeth off the Iewes Rabbines to hauehave bene called Patriarches: yet they had no gouernmēt / or rule / but in the ſeuerall Synagogues where they taught.

Now it appeareth the Anſ. can not bring ſo much as one ſeely teſtimony / to proue this place of Cyprian vnderſtood of tharchbiſhops / or metropolitanes autoritie: beſides that alledged of Muſcu. flatly denying that Cyp. thowght of any Archbiſ. or Metrop. but onelyonly of eueryevery Biſhop in his owne church: I will ad the teſtimony of dBucer agaynſt thaccuſa. of Choclaeus, and Gropperus to the Emper.Bucer / who affirmeth the very ſame that I. Shewing againſt the Pope / that Chriſt onelyonly is vniuerſall biſhop / he aſſigneth this reaſon: For he is preſent vvith his ſheepe, and vvith eueryevery of them, and feedeth thē vntill the end of the vvorlde: and for this cavvſe putteth miniſters in his place, and that to eueryevery church her ſeuerall miniſter. For he did not onelyonly gyue Apoſtles, Prophetes, Euangeliſtes, and miniſters off many churches once: but gyueth alſo daily vntounto eueryevery church off his her miniſters, Paſtors, and Doctors: and both inſtructeth, and leadeth them vvith his ſpirit, that they may ſerue their miniſtries, him ſelf onelyonly gyuing increaſe vntounto their planting, and vvatering. For vntounto eueryevery one off them, he hath appointed a proper portion off the flock, as S. Cyprian teſtified by vvarrant off tradition off Chriſt, and his Apoſtles: and that vvith this condition, and povver, that eueryevery one together vvith his preſbyterie, and Clergie ſhould rule his vvhole flock, as one vvhichwhich ſhould make account off his ovvne act: not vntounto the Pope off Rome, but to the Lord. vvhichwhich is the Prince of Paſtors. Amōgeſt vvhō, no man might appoint him ſelf biſhop of biſhops, or iudge an other, or be iudged of an other: vvherupon the iudgemēt of the biſhop belonged vntounto Synodes, not vntounto one biſhop, as long as the policie off the church gyuen by thapoſtels, ſtoode. Therfore biſhops vvere equall, not onelyonly in povver of the keies (by vvhichwhich fable Latomus vvould elude the place of Cyprian) but alſo in vſe, and degree off povver, and iuriſdiction. In the end / ſhutting vp all that he had ſaied off the metropolitanes / he ſaith: This is the ſentence off the catholike church, concerning the povver of biſhopes as vvell off Rome, as others, grounded on the vvord off God, approued by canons, obſerued off all true biſhops. Wherin Bucer affirmeth that this portion off the flock which Cyprian ſpeaketh off / is the charge off eueryevery miniſter in his ſeuerall church: and that by inſtitution off Chriſt / and his Apoſtels / no miniſter or biſhop can hauehave an other biſhop to iudge him / but that if there be a fault in him / it is to be iudged by Synodes. Thus I leaue to the readers iudgement / how it was more eaſie for the Anſ. to ſay / the godlieſt, and learnedeſt writers expound the place of Cyprian of an archbiſhop: then to ſhew it / when it cometh to proofe. And althowgh he fall flat vnderunder the bourden vndertaken in his firſt booke: yet as thowgh he had not half his lode / he pag. 550.hath charged him ſelf a freſh. For where before he ſaied / the godlieſt, and learnedeſt expound this of an archbiſhop: now he ſaith / all learned writers expound it as he doth. It were well there were ſome reaſonable proportion / betwene the toung and the hand. for it can not be but a fowle fault / to be ſo long tounged / and ſo ſhort handed.

Before I come to Ieromes teſtimonie / the order off tymes for the better vnderſtanding off this cauſe / requireth that thoſe bothe autorities / and examples be anſwered / which the Anſwerer hath alledged / bothe before / owte off the Councell off Nice and Antioche / and after / pa. 470. &c. The nexte to the times off Cyprian / is Dionyſius Alexandrinus: which (ſaith he) had vnderunder his iuriſdictiō all the churches in Pentapolis, as Athanaſius teſtifieth in a certeine epiſtle, Apolog 2. Firſt / there ys no ſuche thinge in all that booke / nor in no epiſtle conteined therin. The place he meaneth of / is in an epiſtle he wrote concerning Dionyſius iudgement / againſte the Arian hereſie. Then / yt ys not ſaide (as he reporteth) that all the churches of Pentapolis were vnderunder his iuriſdiction: but onelyonly that he had care of thoſe churches, or (as the tranſlators words be) the care of thoſe churches apperteined vntounto him. Which what litle or no weighte they hauehave to proue archiepiſcopall iuriſdictiō: ſhall be ſeene when we come to the place / where the ſenſe of this to hauehave care, ys diſcuſſed. In the meane time yt is to be obſerued for better triall of this matter / which I hauehave before noted owte of Euſebius: that he ſucceded in the biſhoprick off Alexandria vntounto his predeceſſor / withowte attributing vntounto hym any further charge. And when as Euſeb. declareth / that he writing vntounto the churches in Egipte / wrote vntounto them by the bare name of the brethren vvhichwhich vvere in Aegypte, withowte any title betokening anie bonde / or knot off myniſterie towardes them: and off the other parte writing Euſe. li. 6. cap. 46.vntounto the churches in Alexandria / intitleth that writing an exhortation vntounto his flocke: he declareth euidently / that he eſtemed Alexandria his proper charge / and that (ſauing that bothe in reſpecte Aegypte was his contrey / and the peace of his owne churche was folded vp in the welfare of yt) his care for Aegipte was generall / as for other churches.

And the very teſtimonie which the Anſ. hathe alledged / yf yt be weighed: dothe ſufficiently declare how farre Dionyſius was / front that antoritie euer the churches off Pentapolis / which he imagineth. For there ys ſhewed / bow when he vnderſtoode off certeine biſhops there / leauened with the hereſie of Sabellius: he ſente meſſengers to them to call them backe from their hereſie. And when they wente yet forwarde more impudently: what iuriſdiction doothe he exerciſe againſte them? doothe he cauſe them to appeare before him? ſend owt the ſentence off excōmunication / remoue them from their charges / ſuſpende them / at the leaſte vntill ſome triall off their amendement? none off all thes: but ſaith / he vvas by this ſtubbernes off theirs, compelled to vvrite againſte them. And yet if Dionyſius might hauehave vſed this autoritie / he woulde no dowbte: and if he had / Athanaſius would by no meanes hauehave let it paſſe. For if he could hauehave alledged / that Dionyſius had ether depoſed / ſuſpended / or excommunicated thoſe Sabellian biſhops: yt had bene a ſingular meanes to hauehave ſtopped the mouthe off the Arrians: which woulde hauehave borne men in hande / that Dionyſius fauored Sabellius hereſie / and conſequently alſo theirs. And towching the gouernement off his owne churche in Alexandria: how farre yt was from that lordlie Euſe. li. 7. ca. 20.dominion / the biſhops / and archbiſhop vſe now: maie appeare in that he calleth the elders off the churche off Alexandria / his felovv elders.

After folowethe one Gregory / which he auoucheth owte of Euſeb. 7. li. 24. to hauehave gouerned all the churches throwghe Pontus firſte / this word all, is not founde there. Secondly / yt is vtterly vntrue that he ſaith / he gouerned all the churches. For Euſebius ioineth Athenodorus with him / as his matche in all pointes. So that if there were any archbiſhop there / it was two headed: contrary to the archbiſhops inſtitution / ſuppoſed of his patrons. Thirdly / yt appeareth in an other place / where Euſebius ſpeaketh of them againe / that they were not biſhops off all the churches of Pontus / 7. lib. 28. foreign.but had onelyonly their pariſhes / or churches in Pontus. And the cauſe why Euſeb. made mention of thoſe onelyonly / was (as is there apparant) becauſe they were the moſte famous amongeſte the Biſhopes in thoſe partes: and therfore by all likelihood choſen owte off the reſte / were ſent vntounto the Councell off Antioche / gathered duplicate page duplicate page duplicate page duplicate page againſt the hereſie of Sabellius. Therforè he which is ſaide off the D. to hauehave bene ruler off all the churches off Pontus / is founde to hauehave but one onelyonly pariſhe in that circuite.

Peter / Biſhop off Alexandria foloweth: which hauing regarde vntounto the time wherin he died / was onelyonly aboute eight yeares / before the Councell off Nice. So that the Anſw. in ſaying he was 20. yeares before, muſt be vnderſtāded of the tyme he entred into his biſhoprick. Of him Epiphanius ſaithe / he had the adminiſtracion of all the churches of Aegypte, was archbiſhop. What manner off archbiſhoprick / and gouernement this was / may be gathered by that that Epiphanius ſaithe / Miletius vvas archbiſhop likevviſe, and had the gouernement together vvith him. And not that onelyonly / but that Miletius occupied the ſeconde place in the archbiſhopricke vvith Peter. Wherby Epiphanius gyueth to vnderſtande / that there was the third and fourth / and conſequently as many archbiſhops / as there were biſhops off name / and eſtimacion amongeſt them: which beſide their owne / procured the good off other churches rounde aboute. This is further confirmed in that Epiphanius (as rendring the cauſe why he calleth Miletius Archbiſhop / and to hauehave the ſeconde place after Peter) ſaithe / Miletius ſeemed to excell the other biſhops in Aegypte: And where yt is ſaide / that Miletius vvas vnderunder peter: yt is to be vnderſtanded that he was vnderunder him in honor / and not ſubiecte vntounto him as vntounto a commaunder / or as to one which had dominion ouer him: as yt ſhall appeare by the Councell off Nice after / and as the diſcourſe of Epiphanius ſtorie / plainely ſhewethe. For where as betwene Peter / and his adherentes off the one parte / and Meletius and his felowes off the other / being ſhut in in priſon for teſtimonie off the trwthe / there fell a controuerſie abowte receiuing thoſe which had fallen in time off perſequution: Peter (as Epiphanius reporteth) deſired, and made ſupplication vntounto Miletius, and the reſt ſaying, let vsus receiue them, and appoint them a penance. And when he coulde not gaine his cawſe by praier / and ſupplication: he ſpred owte a vaile in the middaſte off the priſon / and proclaimed by a deacon / that as manie as vvere off his ſyde▪ ſhoulde come vntounto him: and thoſe vvhichwhich vvere off Melitius parte, ſhoulde goe to him. Wherupon a fevv ioined them ſelfes vntounto him, the greater nomber remaining vvhith Melitius. In which counte off Epiphanius / there is nether any autoritie / or dominion pretended by Peter ouer the reſte / nor any ſubiection acknowledged off the other. but there is to be ſeene contrariwiſe all felowlike behauiour of one towardes an other. And onles this be the propertie of an Archbiſhop / to be autor off a horrible ſchiſme / and rente in the churche (whereas yt ys vaunted off him / that he compoundeth ſchiſmes made by other) ther appeareth nothing in Peter in that whole action / Archbiſhoplike. If the Anſw. ſay / the priſon was no place where he could exerciſe his archiepiſcopall autoritie: the replie is eaſie / that he might as well exerciſe yt there / as owt off priſon. For yt being a time off perſequution / he coulde vſe no where any other conſtreint then by the eccleſiaſticall cenſures: and thoſe (hauing as appeareth a company with him in priſon) he might as well vſe there / as being at libertie.

Hitherto I truſt hath appeared / that there hath bene not ſo much as any footing / or kold ſent ether off archbiſhop / or metropolitan ſuche as ours: yt followeth to examin that owt off the Nicene Councell, which bringeth the firſt tydinges of the Metropolitanes. Where we hauing confeſſed that there were Metropolitanes / denied that they vvere like ours how truly / reſteth to be conſidered. Firſt / that which the Anſw. can moſt pretend owt off this Councell / for iuriſdiction off Metropolitanes ouer Biſhops off the ſame Prouince / is the biſhop off Alexandria, ovvght to hauehave povver ouer the biſhops in Egypt, Lybia, and Pentapolis. Thes are the ſounding wordes / and which carie the greateſt noyſe off Metropolitane autoritie. Yf therfore it fall owt that thes wordes to hauehave power / bring more ſhew in the eie / then weight in the balance: then the Anſw. is greatly fallen from his hope / which thincketh to reape of this peace / dominion off the Metropolitan ouer other biſhops. The wordes which the D. turneth gforeignto hauehave gouernement, ſignifie in that place nothing but to ^g hauehave cheif dignitie, or honour Which is apparant / for that the ſame thing being attributed vntounto Rome / Antioch / and other metropolitane churches / is vttered by the word aforeign.honorable revvard, the ſame that bforeign.dignitie in the next canon where be ſpeaketh off the biſhop off Ieruſalem: as it is alſo noted off cDe ſtatu primitiuae Eccl. pag. 23.Villerius / where he confirmeth this ſignification off the word / dforeign.preeminence, owt off Plato. This may be further vnderſtanded / by that Beza writeth vponupon thes wordes / he gaue all theſe vvhichwhich belieued in him this dignitie, or prerogatiue, that they ſhould be called the children off God.e Beza vponupon 1. Iohn.

Now what this dignitie / and preeminence was / may eaſely be ſeen by that the biſhop of Rome hauing fforeign.preeminence, or dignitie ouer the biſhop off Conſtantinopel / Alexandria / &c. had nothing therby more then they / ſauing onelyonly the firſt place in their meetinges Seing therfore thes wordes tranſlated to hauehave power, ſignifie nothing but to hauehave honour, which conſiſted onelyonly in hauing the higheſt place: by thes wordes off the Councell groweth nothing to the Metropolitan / but onelyonly to ſit in the higheſt place at meetinges. This may alſo appeare by the ſame ^h Councell / g Concil. Nic. can. 5.where yt is ſaid / that if there riſe diſorder in any churche vvhichwhich is not compounded, it ovvght to be decided at the prouinciall Councell, which was therfore to be houlden twife eueryevery yeare: in which faultes vvere to be corrected, not by the Metropolitane / but by the biſhops together. And becawſe the Councell here referreth vsus / to that accouſtomed before: yt is to be conſidered what that was / ſo far as we hauehave teſtimonie. The biſhops aſſembled at Nice / browght their quarrels one againſt an other / Euſeb. 2. li. de vit. Conſt.and offred them to the Emperour: which they would not hauehave doon / at leaſt ſo generally / if there had bene any ſuch order taken off referring their debates to the Metropolitan. The Emperour likewiſe receiuing their bils / and anſwering that it perteined Sozom. 1. lib. ca. 17.not vntounto him to decide thoſe matters: ſendeth them not to their Metropolitanes to be iudged / but adiourneth them to the iudgement off God. Yet yf there had bene any ſuche autoritie eccleſiaſticall off the Metropolitanes: the Emperour / as he was very religious in thoſe obſeruations / would not by all likelihood / hauehave failed in that.

Likewiſe writing ioyntly to Alexander biſhop / and Arius Elder off Alexandria / amongeſte other thinges he ſaith: it vvas not meet they ſhould rule ſo great a people, being deuided amōge them ſelues. Where it is to be obſerued / that howſoeuer thes wordes ſo great a people be taken / whether for the churche off Alexandria / or for all Agipt / &c. the Biſhop gouerned not alone / but by cōſent / and aduiſe of the Elders of that church. Then if the Anſ. will refer this gouernement to the whole countreis off Aegypt / Lybia / &c. and take it in that ſignification he doth / for bearing dominion, and commaunding the reſt: not the biſhop onelyonly / but eueryevery Elder off Alexandria / had commaundement not onelyonly ouer the Elders / but ouer the biſhops them ſelues off other churches. Which if it be abſurd: that whereoff it followeth / muſt be likewiſe. This is all that I finde the Nicene Councell gyueth to the Metropolitan aboue the reſt: how litle it is / and how ſmall a part off that the Anſw. preſumeth / let the reader iudge. That he owght to be no biſhop, which is made withowt conſent off his Metropolitan, is a very ſeely prerogatiue: ſeing yt was the order of the church in thoſe times / that all the biſhops off the Prouince / ſhoulde be at the Theod▪ 5. li. 23. ca.making off a Biſhop. And as the election off the people was voide / if the Metropolitane were not at it: ſo was it alſo if there were not three biſhops at the leaſt preſent. Let vsus ſee now whether the practiſe of the Metropolitanſhip / will fall owt any more fanourable for this pretended iuriſdiction.

Athanaſius foloweth: on whom the D. woulde faſten this archbiſhopricke: firſte / becauſe Iſcharas ſubmitted him ſelfe vntounto him by lettres. As if eueryevery one which hath offended an other / doothe by his ſubmiſſion acknowledge him an archbiſhop / whom he hathe offended: and as if Iſcharas owght not to hauehave doone as muche vntounto any biſhop in the Prouince / yf he had belonged vntounto his pariſhe / as he did vntounto that of Athanaſius. Secondly becawſe Arſenius, and thoſe off his dioceſe, wrote lettres off ſubmiſsion vntounto Athanaſius. The print off the dioceſe is ſo deeply ſet in the D. heade / that what ſoeuer he meeteth with / he turnethe into yt. For there is there no mention off dioceſe / but off a citie. As for the ſubmiſſion he maketh / yt is not to Athanaſius / but vntounto the eccleſiaſtiſticall canons: onelyonly he acknowledgeth him Metropolitane / and that withowt his ſentence he will make no Eccleſiaſticall decree perteining vntounto the churche: which we denie not. For we confeſſe Athanaſ. Apol. 2.that there were then Metropolitanes. and as Arſenius coulde not make anie decree to wching the whole churche in the prouince: no more coulde Athanaſius withowte Arſenius: as hath bene before owt off the former booke declared. But that he was ſubiecte vntounto Athanaſius, there ys not a worde: the cleane contrary is to be plainly ſeene. For Arſenius in his fare well writeth thus; vve and thoſe vvith vsus, ſalute the vvhole companie off ſacred men vvhichwhich are in thy iuriſdiction. by which wordes he manifeſtly exempteth him ſelfe / frō the iuriſdiction off Athanaſius. Wherupon yt muſte folowe / that the office off Metropolitaneſhip in thoſe daies / implied no ſubiection / nor autoritie to commaunde / ouer other biſhops in his prouince. And Athanaſius in calling the biſhops there / his fellovv miniſtres often times: declareth Athana. Apol. 2.in what place he had them / not as ſubiects / but as his fellowes. And that the A. eſcape not with that Popiſhe ſhifte / that Athanaſius therby did declare his humilitie: yt is to be ſeene in that booke / that the other biſhops doo more then half a doſen times / call him their felovve myniſter, barely / withowte other title. Now if Athanaſins not off right / but off his greate humilitie called him ſelf their felowe myniſter: yet the other biſhops in ſo calling him / when they were ſubiecte vntounto him / and at his commaundement / are to be charged not only as voide off Chriſtian humilitie / but alſo as forgetfull euen off all commen ciuilitie / and good manners.

That added off Athanaſius viſiting off Mariotes, and the Prouinces there, as they are called: perteineth nothing vntounto this queſtion. for there were no biſhops in that place: and what he did in that behalfe did not as Archbiſhop / but as Biſhop: that territory belonging vntounto Alexandria. And not onelyonly Archbiſhops / but biſhops / yea Elders viſited the pariſhes off other biſhops. As for Tom 1. Concil. Conſt. Cart. 4. 33. cap.that the pariſhes in the territory off Mariotes, had neuer… biſhop, but belonged vntounto Athanaſius: beſide that I hauehave ſhewed that corruptions had greatly preuailed at that time / it is to be obſerued that it is there put as a ſtrange thing / and vnwonted that one biſhop ſhould hauehave ſo large grownd. For vnles that be the autors ende: there was no cauſe why he ſhoulde hauehave vſed that kinde off ſpeach. Which may better appeare / forſomuche as Socr. li. 1. ca. 27.Socrates ſpeaking off this ſtorie / interlaceth the ſame ſentence: when as ſpeaking off the places off biſhops els where / he neuer mentioneth any ſuch thing.

A Second Reply to an Answer Made by Doctor Whitgift Part 1, Reply 24 · Section 2 (1 of 3)

p. DXXXCaput 3.

Caput 3.