A Second Reply to an Answer Made by Doctor Whitgift Part 1, Reply 2
To the 13. ſect. pag. 9.
GEinge the church off Chriſt gathered amonge the Iewes / Act. 10.and S. Peter him ſelffe were ignorant off one of the greateſt miſteries off Chriſtianitie / concerning the maner off the calling off the Gentillee: yt owght not to ſeme ſtraunge vntounto vsus / iff thoſe famous Martirs were ignorant / off ſome principall point commaunded by the word off god. And iff it be replyed / that this ignorance falleth not into the holie ordre off the martirs off Chriſt / and that the lord leueth not thoſe which are witneſſes vntounto death / in ignorance off any ſuch neceſſarie pointe: Cyprian and Iuſtin Martyr / (wheroff beſides other ſmaller errors the one helde / that thoſe which were baptized by the heretikes / were to be baptized againe: the other was a Chiliaſt / ād ſaid that the faithful / ſhould in the generall reſurrection line with Chriſt here vppon earthe 1000. yeares:) I ſay theſe two godlie Martyrs are ſufficient profes / that the glorie off martyrdome / dothe not free men from being in danger off ignorance / off ſome neceſſarie doctrine commaunded in the ſcripture. Origene (if he were as it written off him a Martyr) had ſo many / and ſo groſſe errors / that he had neede hauehave verie fauourable interpretation / to make him holde the fundation of Religion: eſpecially iff they be his workes whiche goo vnderunder his name.
And if it be further ſaid / that albeit thoſe martyrs did erre in ſuche weightie matters: yet it is to be ſuppoſed that before their deathes / they chaunged opinion: I ſaye that that can be by no likelihoode ſuppoſed. For then vndowtedlie they would hauehave called backe their former opinions / and not hauehave ſuffred them to the hurt off the church / to hauehave liued after theredeathe. If this be not ſufficient / to ſhew that godlie Maxtyrs maye remaine in the ignorāce of ſome neceſſarie point of Religion: our owne Eccleſiaſticall ſtories / do furniſhe vsus with diuerſe examples off godlie Martyrs / off all ſortes / and all times / but eſpecially in the beginning (when the daie off the light off the Goſpell / beganne to peepe owt off that night off popiſhe darknes wherin we were) who euen in there examinations before theire martirdome / affirme the contrary off that wheroff we are clerely taught in the word of God. I hauehave not the booke by me / but I well remembre there mentioned of a notable man / and off the later Martyrs / which affirmeth a verie groſſe deſcent off our ſauior Chriſt into hell: which is an error in one off the articles off our faithe. Another graunting ſuch a Purgatorie after this life as the papiſtes do imagine / and others alſo diuerſe failing in ſubſtantiall pointes of doctrine: wherby whatſoeuer becommeth off this place off Nehemias / yet that is trew which I ſet downe: that both good men / and learned / and martyrs / may not onelyonly be ignorant / but alſo holde / the contrarie off ſome ſubſtantiall pointes off Religion. So that iff the example which I vſed / ſhould not ſerue: yet the doctrine which I ſet downe is trew and vnſhaken / yea (ſauing onelye a bare deniall) vntouched.
And becauſe the Anſwerer holdeth oute the Slidinges of the moſte excellent ſeruantes of god / to hide this vnfaithful dealing withe the church in this reſiſtance againſt the trewth: he muſt vnderſtand that their want in theſe thinges / is ſo farre from making his fault leſſe / that it ſhall weighe ſo much more to his condemnation / by how much the lord hathe offred the knowledge off thoſe thinges vntounto him which (he diſdainefullie reiectinge) would withowt all controuerſie hauehave bene ioyfullie embraced off thoſe bleſſed Martyrs. And iff he had rather here this ſentence off an other then off me: it is that which Cyprian in a certeine Epiſtle writeth / wher all Cyp. lib. 2. Epiſt. 3.this is confirmed when he ſaith: That yff any off our predeceſſors either by ignorance, or by ſimplicitie did not hold that vvhichwhich the Lorde did by his commaundement and example teache: that the Lord vvould forgiue that ſimplicitie: But vntounto vsus (ſaith he) vvhichwhich are admoniſhed & inſtructed, there is no ſuche pardon lefte.
And althowghe he now whiteth there tombes withe a fewe faierr wordes: yet it is to be feared / that iff they were aliue / and ſhould but a litle touche his bile: all the learning and godlines they had / ſhould not be able to harneſſe thē frō thoſe dartes of his tonge / which others hauehave felte. And it ſhall appeare I dowbt not or euer we hauehave done / whether he beare that reuerence / which he pretendeth / when I ſhall hauehave ſhewed / that the principall pointes which are debated betwene vsus / and which he is ſo looth to forgoo / be clere and manifeſt aſſertions / partlie off the eldeſt and moſte auncienteſt profeſſors off the goſpell / and partely off the moſte famous / learned martyrs in this our land: I ſaye whē theſe thinges ſhalbe ſhewed it ſhalbe diſcouered: whether this price which he ſeteth of there iudgement / hathe riſen of their exellencie in vertew / and learnīg / or rather of that cauſe which I hauehave before obſerued.
In the allegation off the place of Nehemias / yff I would followe the anſweres traine / I need not retracte any thinge. For I could alledge / vppon that that bothe before and after ther is rehearſed the ſame ſtorie which was ſpoken off in Eſra / the feaſt off tabernacles is like to be all one / ſpoken off in Eſra / and in Nehemia: howbeit becauſe there are reaſons which leade me to thinke otherwiſe: I willinglie confeſſe that the ſtorie of the celebration of the feaſt of tabernacles in the third of Eſra / maketh againſt that I ſaid / of not holdinge that feaſt ſo manie yeares. But I denie that the anſwerer in all this great triumphe / either dothe or can loſe my holde off that place / wherby I confirmed the continuance off ſo many yeares in omittinge that / which owght to hauehave bene done by the commaundement of god. For notwithſtanding the feaſt were celebrated: yet it can not be ſhewed / that it was kept in ſuche 23, Leui.ſorte as it owght / with boothes made of certèine leaues / and bowghes commaunded in the law. And that the wordes off the booke of Nehemias / which affirme that the childrē of Iſrael had not done ſo frō the time / &c: are not referred onelyonly to the ioie which was great in that feaſt / but vntounto the kepinge of it with bowghes … in times paſt omited / there is this likelihood: that the ſtorie ſheweth / how they had celebrated the firſt day off the feaſt withowt any off thoſe bowghes preſcribed / and that the ſecond day of the feaſte / hearing the law read which cōmaunded thoſe bowghes / they corrected their error werupon im̄ediatelie folowe theſe wordes of the booke that the childrē of Iſrael had not done ſo, frō the time of Ioſuah the ſon̄e of Nū, wherby appeareth that there was a generall ignorance of the man̄er of ſolemnizing that feaſt / euen in Eſra the highe prieſt / whoſe expertnes and knowledge in the law off god / together with a feruent zeale to ſeke the lord / is ſo highlie commēded off the holie ghoſte. And iff the Hebrew coniunction Vau, which followeth immediately / be taken in the proper ſignification: the wordes off the texte will not ſuffer that worde (So) to be referred to any other thinge / then to the omitting off that cōmaundement of the lord / by the ſpace of ſo many yeares as I hauehave aſſigned. ſo that vnleſſe I will yealde him this place willinglie: he is not able withe any force of reaſon / to wring it owt of my handes.
The places off the kinges and Cronicles are not like vntounto this: for the ſpeaches are plaine ād clere there which is not ſo in this place / eſpeciallie to that ende / that he would carie them. Where he aſketh whether he ſhould ſaie) That I hauehave not read the place, or doe not vnderſtand yt, or vvillinglie and vvittiinglie abuſe it or receiued it in ſome notes from others) let it be free to him for me to ſaye either of them / or all off them togither. But wher he ſaith he, will ſaie none of them / and yet in another place twentie lines after / chargeth me with the moſt heinous of them all that is with wilfull deprauing off the Scriptures: excepte he can bring it to ſome figure of Rhetoricke / which wilbe harde for him to doo: it is to open an vntrewth / ioined as it ſhould ſeme / withe a great exceſſe of enuie and diſpleaſure: the ſtreme wheroff was ſo ſtronge / that it did as it were by force / carie awaie the trewth off his promiſe.