A Reply to an Answer Made by Doctor Whitgift, Reply · Part 7
An anſwer to the ende of the. 29. page / beginning at the. 25. at. But I truſt M. Caluins iudgement.
VVHy ſhould you truſt that M. Caluins iudgement wil weigh wyth them / if they be Anabaptiſts (as you accuſe them) if they be Donatiſts / if Cathariſts / if conſpired wyth the Papiſtes / howe can you thinke that they will ſo eaſely reſt in M. Caluins iudgement / whych hated and confuted all Anabaptiſme / Donatiſme / Cathariſme and Papiſme? But it is true whych the prouerbe ſayth / memorem. &c. he that will ſpeake an vntruthe had neede hauehave a good memorye: and thys is the force of the truthe / in the conſcience of man / that although he ſuppres it / and pretend the contrary / yet at vnwares it ſtealeth out. For what greater teſtimonye coulde you hauehave geuen of them / that they hate all thoſe hereſies which you lay to their charge / then to ſay / that you truſt M. Caluins iudgement / wil weigh wyth them? Now in dede (that you be not deceiued) we receiue M. Caluin / and weigh of him / as of the notableſt inſtrumēt that the Lord hath ſtirred vp / for the purging of his churches / and of the reſtoring of the plaine and ſincere interpretation of the ſcriptures / whych hath bene ſince the Apoſtles times. And yet we do not ſo read his works / that we beleeue any thyng to be true / becauſe he ſayeth it / but ſo farre as we can eſteme / that that whych he ſayth / dothe agree wyth the canonicall ſcriptures. But what gather you out of M. Caluin?
Firſt / that all neceſſary thyngs to ſaluation / are contained in the ſcripture: who denyeth it?
In the ſecond collection / where you would geue to vnderſtande / that ceremonies and externall diſcipline / are not preſcribed particularly by the worde of God / and therfore left to the order of the church: you muſt vnderſtande / that all externall diſcipline / is not left to the order of the churche / being particularly preſcribed in the ſcriptures: no more then all ceremonies are left to the order of the church / as the ſacraments of baptiſme / and the ſupper of the Lord: wheras / vponupon the indefinite ſpeaking of M. Caluin / ſaying ceremonies and externall diſcipline, wythout adding / all or ſome / you goe about ſubtelly to make men beleeue / that M. Caluin had placed the whole external diſcipline / in the power and arbitrement of the churche. For if all externall diſcipline were arbitrarie / and in the choiſe of the church / Excommunication alſo (whych is a part of it) might be caſt away / which I thinke you will not ſay. But if that M. Caluin were aliue to heare hys ſentences racked and wrythen / to eſtabliſhe thoſe thyngs / whych he ſtroue ſo mightely to ouerthrow / and to ouerthrow thoſe things that he laboured ſo ſore to eſtabliſhe / what might he ſay? and the iniurie which is done to him / is nothing les becauſe he is deade.
Concerning all the reſt of your collections / I hauehave not lightly knowne a man / which taketh ſo much paine with ſo ſmall gaine / and which ſoweth his ſede in the ſea / wherof there wil neuer riſe encreaſe. For I know none that euer denied thoſe things / vnles peraduenture you would make the reader beleeue / that al thoſe be contentions / which moue any controuerſy of things which they iudge to be amis / and thē it is anſwered before. And now I anſwer further / that they that moue to reformation of things / are no more to be blamed as authors of contention / then the Phiſition / which geueth a purgation / is to be blamed / for the rumbling and ſtirre in the belly / and other diſquietnes of the body: which ſhould not hauehave bene / if the euil humors and naughty diſpoſition of it / had not cauſed or procured thys purgation.
Wheras you conclude / that theſe contentions woulde be ſone ended / if M. Caluins wordes were noted / heere we will ioyne with you / and will not refuſe the iudgement of M. Caluin / in any matter that we hauehave in controuerſy wt you. Which I ſpeake not therfore becauſe I would call the deciſion of controuerſies to men / and their words (which pertaine only to God and to his worde) but becauſe I know hys iudgement in theſe things to be cleane againſt you / and eſpecially for that you would beare men in hand / that M. Caluin is on your ſide / and againſt vsus. And as for Peter Martyr / and Bucer / and Muſculus / and Bullinger / Gualter / and Hemingius / and the reſt of the late wryters / by citing of whom you wold geue to vnderſtand / that they are againſt vsus in theſe matters / there is ſet downe in the latter end of this boke / their ſeuerall iudgements / of the moſt of theſe things whych are in controuerſy: whereby it may appeare / that if they hauehave ſpoken one word againſt vsus / they hauehave ſpoken two for vsus. And wheras they hauehave wrytten (as it is ſayde and alleaged in their priuate letters to their freendes) againſte ſome of theſe cauſes / it may appeare / that they hauehave in their workes publiſhed to the whole world / that they confirme the ſame cauſes. So y• if they wrote any ſuch thyngs / they ſhall be founde not ſo much to hauehave diſſented from vsus / as from them ſelues: and therefore we appeale from them ſelues / vntounto them ſelues: and from their priuate notes and letters / to their publike wrytings / as more autenticall. You labor ſtill in the fire / that is vnprofitably / to bring M. Bucer hys Epiſtle / to proue / that the church may order things / wherof there is no particular and expreſſed commaundement / for there is none denieth it / neither is thys ſaying / that all things are to be done in the churche / according to the rule of the word of God / any thing repugnant vntounto this / that the church may ordaine certaine thyngs / according to the word of God.
But if this epiſtle and others of M. Bucers with his notes vponupon ye boke of Common prayer / which are ſo often cited / and certaine Epiſtles of M. Peter Martyr were neuer printed (as I can not vnderſtand they were) then beſides that you do vsus iniurie / whych go about to preiudice our cauſe by the teſtimonies of them / which we can neither heare / nor ſee / being kept cloſe in your ſtudy: you alſo do your cauſe much more iniurie / whileſt you betray the pouerty and nakednes of it / being faine to ranſake & rifie vp eueryevery darke corner / to finde ſome thing to couer it with. Therefore it were good / before you toke any benefite of them / to let thē come forth / and ſpeake their owne teſtimonies in their owne language and ful out. For now you geue men occaſion to thinke / that there are ſome other things in their Epiſtles / whych you would be lothe the world ſhould know / for feare of fall of that / which you would gladly keepe.
There is no man that fayth / that it ought to be permitted to eueryevery perſon in the church where he is miniſter / to hauehave ſuch order or diſcipline / or to vſe ſuch ſeruice / as he liſteth / no mā ſeeketh for it. But to hauehave the order which God hath left in thoſe things which the word preciſely appoynteth / and in other thyngs to vſe that / whych ſhall be according to the rules of S. Paule before recited / agreed by the church / and conſtrined by the Prince.
And whereas you hauehave euer hitherto geuen the ordering of theſe thyngs to the churche / howe come you nowe to aſcribe it to the Biſhops? you meane I am ſure the Biſhops / as we call Biſhops heere in England / whereby you fall into the opinion of the papiſts vnwares / which when they hauehave ſpoken many things of the churche magnifically / at the laſt they bring it nowe to the Doctors of the church / nowe to byſhops.
As forme / although I doute not but there be many good men of the Byſhoppes / and very learned alſo / and therfore very meete to be admitted into that conſultation / wherin it ſhalbe cōſidered / what things are good in the church: yet in reſpect of that office and calling of a biſhop / which they now exerciſe / I thinke that eueryevery godly learned miniſter & paſtor of the churche / hath more intereſt and right in reſpect of his office / to be at that conſultation / then any biſhop or archbiſhop in the realme / for as muche as he hath an ordinarie calling of God & function appoynted in the ſcriptures which he exerciſeth / and the other hath not.
But how thys authoritie pertaining to the whole church of making of ſuch orders / may and ought to be called to a certaine number / that confuſion may be auoyded / and wyth the conſent alſo of the churches to auoyde tyrannie / it ſhall appeare in a more proper place / where we ſhall hauehave occaſion to ſpeake of the elderſhip or gouernment in eueryevery churche / and of the communion and ſocietie or participation and entercommuning of the churches togither / by councels and aſſemblies prouinciall or nationall.