A Reply to an Answer Made by Doctor Whitgift, Reply · Part 51
1 That there ought now to be the ſame regiment of the Church / which was in the Apoſtles tyme.
THe confeſſion of the Heluetian / Tygurin / Berne / Geneua / Polonia / Hungary / and Scotland with others / in the. 18. chapter / ſpeaking of the equality of the miniſters ſayth / that no man may iuſtly forbyd to returne to the old conſtitution of the church of God / and to receiue it before the cuſtome of man.
M. Caluin in hys Inſtitututions. 4. booke. 3. chapter / and 8. ſection / ſpeaking of the auncientes which dyd aſſiſt the paſtor in eueryevery church / ſayth that experiēce teacheth / that that order was not for one age / & that thys office of gouernment is neceſſary to all ages. And in the. 12. chapter / and firſt ſection of the ſame booke ſayth as much of Excommunication and other Eccleſiaſticall cenſures.
Peter Martyr vponupon the third to the Rom. teacheth that although the common wealth chaunge her gouernment / yet the church alwayes kepeth hers ſtill.
Bucer in hys firſt booke of the kingdome of Chriſt. 15. chapter / lamenteth that there were founde amongſt thoſe which are counted of the forwardeſt chriſtians / which woulde not hauehave the ſame diſciplyne vſed now / that was in the times of the Apoſtles / obiecting the differences of tymes / and of men.
2. That one myniſter ought not to hauehave any dominion ouer an other.
The foreſayde Heluetian Confeſſion. &c. in the ſeuententh Chapter / ſayeth that Chriſt dyd moſt ſeuerely prohibite vntounto hys Apoſtles / & their ſucceſſors / primacy / & domynion / & in the 18. Chap. ſayth that equall power / & function / in geuen vntounto all the myniſters of the church & that from the beginning no one preferred him ſelfe to a nother / ſauing only ye for order / ſome one dyd call thē together / propounde the matters that were to be conſulted of / & gathered the voyces. &c.
Muſculus in hys Common places / in the chap. of the offices of the myniſters of the word / ſayth that in the Apoſtolike church / the miniſters of the word / were none aboue an other / nor ſubiect to any heade / or preſident / & miſlyketh the ſetting vp of any one in higher degree then an other. And further he ſayth vppon the ſecond chap. of the ſecond Epiſtle to the Theſſalonians / that the honor of a byſhop / being taken from the reſt of the myniſters / and geuen to one / was the firſt ſtep to the papacie / how ſo euer in other places he ſpeaketh otherwyſe.
3. That the election of myniſters pertayneth not to one man.
The foreſayd Heluetian Confeſſion. &c. in the. 18. Chapter ſayth that the myniſters ought to be choſen of the church / or by thoſe which are lawfully deputed of the church / and afterward ordayned with publike prayers.
M. Caluin in hys. 4. booke of Inſtitutions. 3. chap. 15. ſection / ſheweth that the Church dyd chuſe / and that the Apoſtles dyd monderate the election / and confuteth them which vponupon the places of Titus and Timothe / would proue that the election belongeth to one man.
4. That there ought now to be elders to gouerne the church with the Paſtors / and Deacons to prouide for the poore.
Touching Elders / the iudgement of M. Caluin hath bene before declared in the firſt of theſe propoſitions.
M. Beza in hys booke of diuorces / page. 161. ſayeth / that the Elderſhyp of the church ought to be / where there is a Chriſtian magiſtrate.
Touching Deacons / M. Caluin. 4. boke. 3. chap. 9. ſection / after that hee had deſcribed what deacons the churches had in the Apoſtles tymes / ſayeth that we / after their example ought to hauehave the lyke.
M. Beza in the. 5. cap. and. 23. ſection of hys confeſſions / ſheweth that the office of the diſtribution of the goodes of the church / is an ordinary function in a church lawfully conſtituted / which office in the. 30. he calleth the Deaconſhip.
P. Martyr vponupon the. 12. to the Rom. ſpeaking of the Elders / which did aſiſt the paſtor in eueryevery Church / & of the Deacons / lamenteth that thys order is ſo fallen out of the church / that the names of theſe functions do ſkarce remayne.
M. Bucer in hys firſt booke of the kingdome of Chriſt / for the auncientes of the Church ſayeth / that the number of the Elders of eueryevery church / ought to be encreaſed according to the multitude of the people / and in the. 14. chap. of the ſame booke ſayeth that thys order of Deaconſhyppe / was relygiouſly kept in the church / vntill it was driuen out by Antichriſt.
5. That excommunication pertayneth not to any one man in the Church.
M. Caluin in hys Inſtitutions. 4. booke. and. 11. chap. and. 6. ſection teacheth that Excommunication pertayneth not to one man / & that it was too wicked a fact / that one man taking the authoritie which was common to other / to himſelfe alone / opened a way to tyranny / tooke from the Church her right / and abrogated the church Senate / ordayned by the ſpirite of Chriſt. And in the. 12. chap. and. 7. ſection / hee ſayeth further that it ought not to be done without the knowledge and approbation of the Church.
M. Beza in hys confeſſions. 5. chap. 43. ſection / ſayeth that thys power of excommunicating is geuen to no one man / except it pleaſe God to worke extraordinarily.
Peter Martyr vponupon the. 1. to the Corinthes / and. 5. chap. ſayeth that it is very daungerous / to permit ſo waighty a matter as excommunication / to the diſcretion and will of any one man. And therfore / both that tyranny might be auoyded / and thys cenſure executed with greater frute / and grauitie / that the order which the Apoſtle there vſeth / is ſtill to be obſerued.
M. Bucer of the kingdome of Chriſt / in the. 1. booke. and. 9. chap. ſayeth that S. Paule accuſeth the Corinthians / for that the whole church / dyd not caſt out of their company the inceſtuous perſon.
6. That Chauncelors / Commiſſaries / Officials. &c. vſurpe authority in the Church / which belongeth not to them.
M. Caluin in hys Inſtitutions. 4. boke. 11. chap. 7. ſect. ſpeaketh agaynſt the office of Officials / and alledgeth diuers reaſons agaynſt them / as that they exerciſe that part of the Byſhops charge / and that they handle matters whiche pertayne not to the ſpirituall iuriſdiction.
M. Beza in hys boke of Diuorces / prouing that the iudiciall deciding of matrimonyall cauſes appertayneth vntounto the cyuill magiſtrate / ſayeth that officials / proctors / and promoters / and in a word all the ſwiniſh filth / now of long time hath waſted the church.
Peter Martyr vponupon the. 13. chap. to the Romaines / ſpeaking agaynſt the ciuill iuriſdiction of byſhops / doth by the ſame reaſon condemne it in their deputies the officials.
7. That the myniſters of the worde / ought not to exerciſe any ciuill offices and iuriſdiction.
M. Caluin in hys Inſtitutions. 4. boke. 11. chap. 9. ſect. bringeth dyuers reaſons to proue that byſhops may neyther vſurpe / nor take being geuen them / eyther the right of the ſword / or the knowledge of ciuill cauſes.
M. Beza in hys Confeſſions. chap. 5. ſect. 32. ſayth that the Eccleſiaſticall iuriſdiction is to be diſtinguiſhed from the ciuill / and that although the byſhops in the times of Chriſtian Emperoures were troubled with the hearing of cyuill cauſes yet they dyd not that by any iudiciall power / which they exerciſed / but by a frendly entreaty of the parties / which were at diſcorde: and ſayeth notwithſtanding / that herein the Emperors dyd geue too much to the ambytion of certayne byſhoppes / whereupon by little / and by litle / afterwarde all thinges were confounded. And in the. 42. ſection / ſayeth that thoſe corporall punyſhmentes which the Apoſtles exerciſed / were peculier / and extraordinary.
Peter Martyr vponupon the. 13. to the Romaines / ſpeaking of thys meeting of both Eccleſiaſticall / and ciuill iuriſdiction in one man / ſayeth / that when both the ciuill / & Eccleſiaſticall functions do ſo meete / that one hindreth the other / ſo that he which exerciſeth the one / can not myniſter the other.
M. Bucer vponupon the. 5. of Mathew / ſayeth that there is no man ſo wiſe / & holy / which is able to exerciſe both the ciuill / & the Eccleſiaſticall power / and that therfore he which will exerciſe the one / muſt leaue the other.
8. That the ſacraments ought not to be priuately adminiſtred / nor by women.
The forſayd confeſſion .c. 20. holdeth that baptiſme ought not to be myniſtred by women / or midwiues / to the which alſo may be ioyned the Liturgy of the Engliſh church at Geneua / which cōdemneth the myniſtring of either of the ſacraments in priuate houſes / or by women.
Peter Martyr vponupon the. 11. chap. of the. 1. ep. to the Corinthes / in deſcribing the corruptions of the Lordes ſupper / noteth thys to be one / that the church dyd not communicate altogether / which corruption as it was in dyuers places in times paſt / ſo he complayneth that it is now.
M. Bucer in hys firſt booke of the kingdome of Chriſt / and. 7. chap. proueth out of the. 10. to the Corinth. that the whole church ſhould receiue the ſupper of the Lord together / and that the vſe of the church of God in thys behalfe / ought with great and dyligent endeuour to be reſtored vntounto the churches / & that it is a contempt of the myſteries / not to be partakers / when they are called.
M. Beza agaynſt Weſtphalus / ſheweth that it is not decent that baptiſme be myniſtred but in the church / & that at ſtanding houres / and by the myniſters / and further / that vppon no neceſſitie (as it is called) it ought to be myniſtred in priuate houſes. And that if it might be myniſtred in priuate houſes / yet no otherwyſe then by myniſters.
M. Caluin in hys inſtitutions. 4. booke. chap. 15. ſect. 20. 21. proueth that baptiſme ought not to be myniſtred by priuate men / or by any women.
9. The iudgement of thoſe late wryters touching ceremonies and apparell / whoſe ſecret Epiſtles M. Doctor alledgeth / appeareth by theſe places folowing / cited but of their workes Printed / and publiſhed by them ſelues. Wherof alſo ſome are alledged by the anſwerer to the examiner / where are diuers other places to thys purpoſe / wherunto I referre the Reader.
M. Bucer vponupon the. 18. of Math. ſayth that they ſay nothing / which doe alwayes obiect / that greater things muſt be vrged / then the reformation of ceremonies / therby defending the reliques of Antichriſt / foraſmuch as ceremonies are teſtimonies of religion: And that / as there is no agreement betwene Chriſt and Belial / ſo thoſe which are ſincere Chriſtians / can abyde nothing of Antichriſt.
Peter Martyr vponupon the .10. c. of the .2. booke of the kings / ſayeth that the Lutheranes muſt take heede / leaſt whileſt they cut of many popiſhe errors / they follow Iehu by retayning alſo many popiſh things. For they defend ſtill the reall preſence in the breade of the ſupper / and images / and veſtmentes. &c. and ſayth that relygion muſt be wholy reformed to the quicke.
Bullinger in hys Decades. 5. booke / and. 9. ſermon / ſayth that our ſauior Chriſt & the Apoſtles vſed their accuſtomed apparell in the ſupper / and that although in times paſt the miniſters put on a kynde of cloke vppon their common apparell / yet that was done neither by the example of Chriſt / nor of hys Apoſtles / but by the tradition of man / and that in the ende / after the example of the prieſtes apparell in the olde law / it was caſt vponupon the myniſters / at the miniſtration of the ſupper. But (ſayeth he) we hauehave learned long agoe / not only that all Leuiticall ceremonies are abrogated / but alſo that they ought to bee brought agayne into the church of no man. And therefore ſeing we are in the light of the goſpell / and not vnderunder the ſhadow of the law / we doe worthely reiect / that maſſing Leuiticall apparell.
Gualter vponupon the. 21. of the Actes / among others / bringeth thys for one reaſon / to improue Paules ſhauing of hys head: for that the goſpell had beene preached .xx. yeares / and that therefore the infirmitie of the Iewes ought not to hauehave beene borne with. And after hee ſayeth that that teacheth / how much the ſuperſticious maſters of ceremonyes / hurte the goſpell / which nouriſhe the weakenes of fayth by the long keeping of ceremonyes: and by their long bearing / hynder the doinges of thoſe myniſters / which are more feruent.
FINIS.
End of the text · Thomas Cartwright, A Reply to an Answer Made by Doctor Whitgift (1573)