A Reply to an Answer Made by Doctor Whitgift, Reply · Part 24 – Part 26
To the ſection beginning in the latter ende of the. 53. page / vntill the middeſt of the 62. page.
THe Cappe / the Surplice / and Tippet / are not the greateſt matters wee ſtriue for / which notwithſtanding hath bene informed to the churches beyond ſea / to the ende that the iudgements of ſome might be the eaſtyer had againſt vsus. Howbeit we thinke it an attire vnmeete for a miniſter of the goſpel to weare / and the Surplice eſpecially / more then the other two / becauſe ſuche hurtfull ceremonies are ſo muche more daungerous / as they do approche nearer the ſcruice / or worſhip of God.
The cauſes why we are lothe to meddle with them / are not as many are borne in hand / becauſe that we thincke any pollution ſo to ſticke to the thinge… them ſelues / as that the wearing of them had any ſuche power to pollute & make vncleane the vſers of them: neyther yet only becauſe the papiſtes hauehave ſuperſtitionſly vſed them / but becauſe they hauing beene abhominably abuſed by them / hauehave no vſe nor profite in thoſe thinges or endes / wherein and whereunto they are now vſed. And further that they are alſo hurfull / being monuments of idolatrie / whereas to bring them in and eſtabliſhe them / it behoueth that there ſhoulde ſome manyfeſt profite of them appeare. For it is not enoughe to ſay it is indifferent in the owne nature / Ergo meete to be done: but as the circumſtances of the times and perſones and profite or hurt of our brethren do require / or not require / ſo muſt it be done / or not be done. For in theſe thinges which are called indifferent / God will hauehave the vſe of them to be meaſured / that it be referred firſt to his glory / then to the profite of others. Now / that they are not profitable and hurtfull / it alſo may appeare if we conſider them by all the kindes of men in ye realme.
The papiſtes are eyther ſtubborne or weake / and in reſpect of both theſe / they can not be but hurtfull. The weake I call thoſe that hauehave made ſome ſteppe from poperie to the goſpell / and of whome there is good hope that they may bee fully gotten to the goſpell / but theſe are harmed by the vſe of theſe veſtimentes / for they take occaſion of falling at them / becauſe they thinck that the ſacraments gette reuerence by them / and the miniſterie is commended by ſuch apparell wearing / and thincke that the ſacramentes wante ſome thing of that they ſhoulde hauehave / if they be not vſed: whereupon are hearde oftentimes theſe voyces. I will not communicate vnles he weare a ſurplice. But this offence and occaſion of falling / is confirmed by the vſe of theſe garmentes: therefore in reſpect of ſuch men / they are hurtfull.
Agayne / although I hauehave knowledge / and know that the wearing of a ſurplice is lawfull for me / yet an other which hath not knowledge / is by my example edifyed / or ſtrengthned to weare a ſurplice / whereof he can tell no grounde why he ſhould weare it / and ſo ſynneth agaynſt his conſcience: and for this cauſe S. Paule concludeth / that that which a man may doe in reſpect of him ſelfe / may not …. Cor. 8. 10. 13be done / and is not lawfull to be done / in reſpect of other.
Agayne for the ſtubberne papiſtes / they take heereupon occaſion to ſpeake euill of / and to blaſpheme the truthe of the goſpell / ſaying / that our religion can not ſtande by it ſelfe / vnles it leane vppon the ſtaffe of their ceremonies / and perſwade them ſelues that thoſe were very well deuiſed by their Popes / that they that are their ennemyes to their religion / can not be without. And heereuppon they take occaſyon to hope that their other trumpery and baggage / will in the ende come in agayne / which cauſeth them to be more froſen in their wickedneſſe / and ſhutte their eares agaynſt the truth / which poſſibly they would heare / if all hope of bringing in of their Popery were cutte off. And let it be obſerued that through out the realme there are none that make ſuche clamoures and ouctryes / and complayntes for theſe ceremonies / as they / and thoſe that they ſuborne. They pretend I confeſſe / the Queenes maieſties Iniunctions / & obediēce vntounto them / but who is ſo blynde as ſeeth not / that they hauehave an other meaning. For I appeale vntounto the conſciences of all that know them / whether they doe it for any obedience towardes her Maieſtie / whoſe death ſhould be a thouſande times better newes vntounto them / then her graces marriage.
There are alſo numbers of thoſe which hauehave all antichriſtianitie in ſuch deteſtation / that they cannot abide the leaſt ſcrappe of it / and when they ſee the miniſters weare them / they are greeued in their heartes / and they begin ſomewhat to feare / leaſt this communicating with the papiſtes in apparell / ſhoulde make ſome way to thoſe which vſe them / the eaſyer to admit other things / when they ſhould be lykewiſe commaunded. And theſe brethrens myndes are not to be lightly greeued / and the miniſters if they thinke to profite them / muſt cut away all occaſion / whereby they maye hauehave an euill opinion of them.
Seeing that therfore this kinde of ceremonies in apparel / harden the harts of the papiſtes / and cauſe them to be the ſtiffer in their poperie / hinder the weake from profiting in the knowledge of the goſpel / greue the mindes of the godly / are occaſion of an euill opinion vntounto them of their miniſters / we thincke that theſe ceremonies are to be remoued / as not only not profitable (which they oughte to be) but hurtfull / if not to the miniſters them ſelues that vſe them / yet to their people to whome they are commaunded by God to hauehave regarde vntounto / in theſe thyngs that are indifferent in their owne natures. Nowe I will come to that whych you ſet downe.
The places alledged by the admonition / wyth others / whych may be cited / howſoeuer you deride them / are notwithſtanding probable coniectures / that neither Samuell / nor the apoſtles / nor our ſauioure Chriſt / did weare any diſtincte apparell from others / whych liued in their times. For if Samuel being then the 1. Sam. 9. …8.ſeer / had had a ſeueral apparel / whych was proper to the ſeers / it is not like that Saule would hauehave aſked of him ſelfe where hys houſe was. And if the apoſtles Mat. 26. 73.had worne a ſeuerall apparell from the reſt / they ſhoulde not hauehave bene eſtemed by ſo generall and vncerten a note / as of ſpeaking ſomwhat brodely / or as I may terme it / Northenly / for it had bene a ſurer note to hauehave ſayd thou art one of hys apoſtles / becauſe none weareth thys apparell but his apoſtles / where there was a great number that ſpake Galilcan like / whych were not of hys apoſtles / nor diſciples neyther. But let theſe goe. You ſay our ſauioure Chriſt had a ſeuerall Iohn. 19. 23.apparell / becauſe he had a coate wythout ſeame. Aſſuredly you myghte vſe les ſcornefulnes in rehearſing of other mennes arguments / if for no other cauſe / yet for thys / that they might take more pitie of youres.
For what an argument is this? Our ſauioure Chriſt did weare an vnderunder garment / whych coulde not be well parted / but with the ſpoile or marring of it / therfore he ware a ſeuerall apparell from the reſt. It is true / Ihon Baptiſt had Math. 3. 4. 2. Reg. 1. 8.a ſeuerall apparell / and to helpe you / ſo had Elias / but to thys ende / that bothe by hys vnwonted apparell / and ſtraunge diet whych he vſed of locuſtes and wilde hony / the extraordinaries of his miniſterie might be ſet forthe / and the people the rather moued to enquire of hys office / whome they ſaw to vary ſo much from the common cuſtome of other men. But miniſters now hauehave no ſuche extraordinarie functions / therfore by that reaſon of youres / they ſhuld not be ſeuered from other men / by any note of apparell. You ſay you knowe that the cheefe notes of a miniſter / are doctrine and learning / if you meane that the diſtinction of apparell muſt ſupply the reſt / and that that alſo hath ſome force to commend their miniſtery / the prophets and apoſtles of our ſauior Chriſte / left vsus no perfect paterne of a miniſter / nor no ſufficient glas to dres him by / wherof the moſte parte neuer vſed any ſuche ſeuerall apparell / and none of them hauehave left any commaundement of it.
For want of ſtore / and to make a long boke / heere is S. Iohns miter rehearſed thriſe in one leafe to the ſame purpoſe / and in the ſame wordes. And becauſe it was not enough that M. Bullinger / and M. Martyr ſhould ſpeake of them / you hauehave preuented them both / leaſt you ſhuld hauehave ſemed to hauehave brought nothing. If this be not Coleworts twiſe ſodden / I can not tell what is.
You aſke whether the chriſtian magiſtrate may enioyne a ſeuerall kinde of apparell to the miniſters. Either the cauſe is too weake whych you defende / or elſe it hath gotten an euill patron / whych would ſo gladly ſhift it / and chaunge it with an other. For this is an other queſtion which you ſpeake of. For although that be graunted vntounto you / whych you demaunde / yet you can not conclude your cauſe. For all be it the magiſtrate may commaunde a ſeuerall apparell / yet it foloweth not that he may commaund this kinde of popiſhe apparell / and therefore what manner of argument is this of youres / the magiſtrate maye commaunde a ſeuerall apparell / therfore he may commaunde this. The colledge walles will tell you / that a man can not conclude from the whole to the parte affirmatiuely. So you ſee I might let you fiſh / and catch nothing / but I am neyther afrayde / nor aſhamed / to tell you the truth of that you aſke / ſo farreforth at leaſt as I am perſwaded. I thincke therefore it may be ſuch a kinde of apparell / as the magiſtrate commaunding it / the miniſter may refuſe it / and ſuch it may be / as he may not refuſe it. But whatſoeuer apparell it be / this commaundement can not be without ſome iniury done to the miniſter. For ſeeing that the magiſtrate doth allow of him / as of a wiſe / learned / and diſcrete man / and truſteth him with the gouernement of his people in matters betwene God and them / it were ſomewhat harde not to truſt him with the appoynting of his owne apparell / and he is probably to be ſuppoſed that he hath diſcretion to weare his owne geare comely / and in order / that is able to teach others / how they ſhould weare theirs? and that he ſhould be able to doe that by his wiſdome / and learning / that others do without learning and great ſtore of wiſedome / & that he ſhould keepe order and decencie in apparel / which hath learned in the ſchole of Chriſt / which they doe that had neuer other ſcholemaſter / then common ſenſe and reaſon? And if any miniſter be founde to fault / in going either diſſolutely / or to exquiſitely and delicately / then the Magiſtrate may puniſhe him according to the diſorder wherein he faulteth.
And whereas you would proue that it may be done with the miniſters / as it is done with Iudges / ſergeants / Aldermen and Sheriffes / the caſe is not like. For as for theſe which be in office / their robes and gownes may as their maces & ſwordes / ſomewhat helpe to ſet forth the maieſtie and moderate pompe which is meete for the offices of iuſtice which they execute / and conſequently to helpe to ſtrike a profitable feare into their heartes which are vnderneath them / which hath / nor can hauehave no place in the miniſter / whoſe authoritie and power / as it is not outwarde / ſo can it not / nor ought not to borow any credite of theſe externall ſhewes. And the Magiſtrate / or the Citie / may ſeeke ſome honor of the citizens / muſtering as it were by numbers in one liuerie / which ought not to be loked for at the miniſters hand / becauſe he honoureth and ſerueth the magiſtrate an other way / nor can not alſo / conſidering that they are ſcattered through all the land in eueryevery towne one / or not ſo many / as being put in one liuery / would make any great ſhew to the honor & commendation of the towne or citie where they remaine.
And ſo you ſee your queſtion anſwered / whereby appeareth they are ſubiectes as other are / and to obay alſo ſometimes / where the commaundement is not geuen vponupon good grounds. The place of Theodoret cited of M. Bullinger / maketh mention of a golden cope / and that vſed by byſhops of Ieruſalem / and ſolde by Cyrill a good biſhop / whereby he declared ſufficiently his miſliking of ſuch garments in the miniſterie of the ſacramentes. In the place the which hee citeth out of Socrates / there is one Sycinius an Nouatian biſhop which is ſayd to hauehave worne white apparell / and therefore is reprehended as for to muche exquiſiteneſſe & fineneſſe of apparell / & the B. of Dureſine / in a letter he wrote / alledgeth the ſame place agaynſt the ſurplice. A man would hardly beleue that maiſter Bullinger ſhoulde vſe theſe places to proue a diſtinction of apparell amongſt the miniſters. We are not ignorant but that a cloke hath bene vſed of the miniſters in theyr ſeruice / but that was no ſeuerall apparell of the miniſters / but common to all the Chriſtians / which with change of their religion / changed alſo their apparell / as appeareth manifeſtly in Tertullian de pallio.
As for the Petalum that S. Iohn ware / I ſee not how it can bee proued / to be like a biſhops miter. For the cap / that S. Cyprian gaue the executioner / argueth rather that it was ye commō apparell which was cuſtomably worne / for elſe it would not hauehave done him ſo much good. As for his vpper garment which hee gaue to hys deacon / it was a token of his good will / which he would leaue with him / as the practiſe hath bene ſeene with vsus / and proueth nothing that it was any ſeuerall apparell. As for the white linnen garment which he ſuffered in / it can not ſeme ſtrange vntounto vsus which hauehave ſene the holy martyrs of the Lord executed in Smithfield and other places. And it is not to be thought that S. Cyprian had ſo ſmall iudgement / that lyuing in the time of perſecution / he would by wearing of ſome notable apparell from the reſt / as it weare betray him ſelfe into the handes of his enemies / vnles all the chriſtians had done ſo too for clearer and more open profeſſion of theyr fayth / and greater deteſtation of the contrary religion: as Tertullian and the chriſtians in his time did / by the wearing of a cloke / which reaſon may be alſo alledged of the Petalum of S. Iohn. It is true 60. homil. ad popul. Antiod….Chryſoſtome maketh mention of a white garment / but not in commendation of it / but rather to the contrary. For he ſheweth that the dignitie of their miniſterie / their ſafetie and crowne was in taking heede / that none vnmeete were admitted to the Lordes ſupper / not in going about the church with a white garment. And it is eaſely to be ſeene by * Salomon in his Eccleſiaſtes / that to weare a white Eccle. 9. 8.garment / was greatly eſtemed in the Eaſt partes / and was ordinarie to thoſe that were in any eſtimation / as the wearing of blacke with vsus: and therfore was no ſeuerall apparell for the miniſters / or for to execute their miniſterie in.
The reaſons that M. Peter Martyr vſeth / are the ſame before / and how he hath alſo condemned them / it ſhall appeare / with M. Bucers iudgement of theſe thinges in the ende of the booke.
As for Euſtathius his depriuation / becauſe he did not weare apparel meete for a miniſter / it maketh not to this purpoſe one whit. For I hauehave ſhewed that if any miniſter go like a ruffian or ſwaſhe buckler / or in the brauerie of a courtier / that it is meete he ſhould be puniſhed according to the quaintitie of the fault. And that it is ſo to be vnderſtāded / it appeareth manifeſtly by the councell of Gangris / which did therfore confirme the ſame depoſing / becauſe he ware a ſtranger apparell / & the habite of a Philoſopher / & cauſed all his fellowes to do ſo. Therfore I maruell what you meane to alledge this place. It is alſo alledged of * Nicephorus Lib. 9, c. 45./ in neither of ye places there is any Euſtathius / ye ſonne of Euſtathius / but of Eulabius / or as Nicephorus readeth Eulalius. And therfore your concluſion is both vntrue & vncertaine / that ſince the Apoſtles times there hath bene a diſtinct & ſeuerall apparell of the miniſters from the reſt. The matter lyeth not in that whether theſe things were firſt muented by papiſtes / or being deuiſed of others / were after taken by the papiſts / but ye matter ſtandeth in this / that they hauehave bene vſed of the papiſts as notes & markes and ſacraments of their abhominations.
As for Auguſtin hys place / it is to be vnderſtanded of ſuch things as hauehave a neceſſary vſe / and therefore may not be taken away from vsus by the ſuperſtition of men. For ſo we might alſo be depriued of the ſunne / which is as it were the life of the world / becauſe the ſinme hath bene worſhipped. But that S. Auguſtin Auguſt. Tom. 10. de verbis domini in Matheum ſermone. 6.did not like of this kinde of retayning ceremonies / it may * appeare. Do you aſke ſayth he / how the Paganes may be wonne / how they may be brought to ſaluation / forſake their ſolemnities / let goe their toyes / and then if they gree not vntounto our truth / let them be aſhamed of their fewneſſe / whereby he ſheweth / that the neareſt way to gaine the papiſtes / is to forſake their Ceremonies. And yet I would be loth to ſay eyther with you / or with Auguſtin / that it is not lawfull for a man / to make of a popiſhe ſurplice / a ſhirt for him ſelfe / or to take the gold of a cope which he hath bought / & conuert it to his priuate vſe. And herein we do nothing diſagree with S. Auguſtin / which graunt that ſurplices / and copes / and rippets / and cappes / may be applyed to a good vſe / eyther common or priuate / as they wil beſt ſerue / but wee deny that that vſe is in diſtinguiſhing eyther the miniſters from other men / or the miniſters executing their eccleſiaſticall function from themſelues / when they doe not exerciſe that office.
To all theſe things that M. Martyr reckeneth vp of reuenues / and wages / verſes / wine / bread / oyle / water / whych being conſecrated vntounto Idols / are well vſed / Tertullian anſweareth in the ſame boke / whereout a numbre of theſe are taken: when he ſayth / that we ought to admit a participation of thoſe things / whych bring either a neceſſity or profite in the vſe of them / but we deny that theſe things thus vſed / are either neceſſary or profitable. And therfore in ſtead of temples / tithes / wine. &c. if you woulde hauehave matched the ſurplice well / you ſhoulde hauehave ſayd ſenſors / tapers / holy bread / holy water / and ſuch like. It is true / that M. Bucer ſayeth / that it is not in the nature of any creature to be a note of Antichriſt / but yet followeth not therof / that the creature that hathe bene accidentally / & through abuſe applied to idolatry / may be forthwith vſed as we ſhall thinke good. For neither the idolles of the Gentiles / nor the corruptions of thoſe which offered / had power to make the beefe or mutton that was offered / no good and holeſome meate for the ſuſtenaunce of man / neither cauſe that a Chriſtian man coulde not eate them as beefe and mutton / but yet either to eate it at the table of idolles before them / or elſe priuately in hys owne houſe / when there was anye weake by / that thoughte it an abhominable thing / was not lawfull: and yet the meate neuertheles the good creature of God / and whych might be receiued wyth thankes giuing / ſo the abuſe of the ſurplice and coape. &c. can not cauſe / but that they may be vſed as clothe and ſilke.
And wheras he ſayeth that they are chaunged / and made of notes of Antichriſtianitie / markes of Chriſtianitie / I ſay that they can not be chaunged ſo by any decree or commaundement / for as much as notwithſtanding that profeſſion of chaunge / the heartes of men vntounto whych eueryevery man muſt hauehave regarde vntounto / are not chaunged. For not ſo ſoone as the magiſtrate will ſaye that theſe thyngs ſhall be from henceforthe vſed as things indifferent / forthwyth men doe vſe them ſo / but thoſe only vſe them ſo / whych hauehave knowledge / both the ignorant and the weake take them ſtil otherwiſe. The reſt of thoſe things whych M. Bucer / and thoſe whych M. Bullinger and Gualter bring / are all of that ſorte / wherevnto anſwere is made.
Only this they adde / that if the people do abuſe and peruert theſe ceremonies / they oughte to be better inſtructed / whych is a counſell not ſo conuenient / that the miniſters and paſtors whych hauehave ſo many neceſſary poynts to beſtowe their time on / and to informe the people of / ſhould be driuen to cutte of their time appoynted thereto / to teache them not to abuſe theſe things / which if they vſe neuer ſo well / they can gaine nothing / and to take heede that they hurte not them ſelues at thoſe things / whych in their beſt eſtate do no good / eſpecially when one ſermon of the taking of them away ioyned wyth authoritie to execute it / may do more good then a thouſand ſermons wythout authoritie.
Beſides that / it is abſurde / that ceremonies whych ought to be helpers to promote the doctrine / ſhoulde become lets and hinderances / whileſt the miniſter is occupied in teaching / to beware of the abuſe of them / and of ſuperſtition. And it is as muche as if one ſhould be ſet to watche a childe all day long / leaſt he hurt him ſelfe wyth the knife / when as by taking away the knife quite from hym / the daunger is auoided / and the ſeruice of the man better employed. And ſo it foloweth / that althoughe the churche may appoynt ceremonies and rites / yet it can not appoynte theſe that hauehave great incommoditye / and no commoditie / great offence and no edifying.
And althoughe they hauehave all theſe properties whych you recite / yet if they be not to edifying / if not to God hys glorye / if not comely and agreeable to the ſimplicitie of the goſpell of Chriſte crucified / they may not be eſtabliſhed. Concerning your diſtinction / wherby you leſten the idolatrie of the papiſtes / I hauehave ſhewed the vanitie thereof.
But of thys matter you ſay you will ſpeake againe. In deede ſo you doe / and againe / wherin you confound the memorie and vnderſtanding of the reader / and declare your ſelfe not onlye ignorante of Ariſtotles rule of katholou proton (whych is to ſpeake of one thyng generally and once for all) but euen to be voide of that order whych men hauehave commonly by the naturall logicke of reaſon. Neither can you excuſe your ſelfe in ſaying that the Admonition geueth you ſo often times occaſion to ſpeake of them / and ſo to lay the faulte vponupon it / for that it being wrytten by diuers perſons of the ſame matters / whereof one knewe not of an others doing / can not be blamed for the repetition of one thing twiſe / when as you can not eſcape blame whych might hauehave gathered eaſely into one place / y• which is ſayd of them in diuers. Whych thing / although it be not ſo eaſy for me to doe in your booke / as it was for you to doe in theirs / yet I will aſſay to doe it bothe in thys and in all other poyntes that folowe / not thincking thereby to bring thys treatiſe of youres to any good order (for that were to caſt it new againe / and then you would complaine of your minde peruerted) but that I might remedy this ſo great diſorder as farre as maye be done wythoute chaunging any thyng of that whych you hauehave ſet downe.
And if there be any other arguments touching any of theſe poyntes in other places / whych I hauehave not gathered togither into one / the fault is in thys / that I could not beſtowe ſo muche time in making a Harmonie of the things which are at ſo great diſcorde / and then that whych is left out / ſhall be anſweared in place where I ſhall finde it. Nowe let vsus ſee M. Doctors deuteron ploun, and ſecond nauigation touching apparell / whether it be any happier / or hauehave any better ſucces then the firſt.
In the. 105. page / M. Doctor to proue the vſe of the ſurplice / to draw out hys booke into ſome competent volume / boroweth certen places of the examiner / for anſwere wherevnto / I will referre the reader to that which is anſwered vntounto the examination / as to a full and ſufficient anſwere wherein I will reſt / and when M. Doctor hathe proued that which he ſayth / that it is but a childiſhe cauill / he ſhall then heare further.
In the meane ſeaſon it is but a ſlender Replie / to ſo learned an anſwere (that proueth bothe oute of other authors / and out of thoſe ſame whych the examiner citeth / that by a white garment is meant a comely apparell / and not ſlouē ly) to ſay it is but a childiſhe cauill / whych a D. of Diuinitie / and of. xl. yeares of age can not anſwer. The place of Ierome vponupon the. 44. of Ezechiel / the more it be conſidered / the more ſhall appeare the truthe of the anſwere.
Nowe I wil deſire the reader to turne vntounto the. 237. 238. 239. 240. 242. pages / to ſee whether at thys third voyage M. doctor bringeth any better marchaundiſe. Where firſt he ſurmiſeth an vntruthe / as though the admonition miſliked of the taking away of the gray Amis / where it ſayeth only that there was les cauſe to take that away / then the ſurplice. &c. Wherin there is nothing but the truthe ſayde / for becauſe that was vſed but in few churches / and but of few alſo in thoſe few churches: therfore if there were cauſe to take away that / there was greater to take away the ſurplice. And to take away the Amis out of the church / and leaue the ſurplice. &c. is to heale a ſcratch / and leaue a wound vnhealed.
Nowe whereas you ſay / that we are alwayes (Ad oppoſitum) and that if the lawe commaunded ſtraightly / that we ſhoulde weare none of thys apparell / that then we would weare: if it ſhould be anſwered againe that you doe Seruire ſcenae: that is / that you are a time ſeruer / you ſee we mighte ſpeake wyth more likelyhoode then you. But we will not take (as you doe) the iudgement of God out of his handes / but will attende paciently the reuelation and diſcouering of that / whych is nowe hid bothe in you and in vsus.
And although you will graunt vsus neither learning nor conſcience / yet you might aforde vsus ſo muche witte / as that we would not willingly / and of purpoſe want thoſe commodities of life / whych we might otherwiſe enioy as wel as you if we had that gift of conformitie whych you hauehave.
Wheras you ſay that the accurſed things of Iericho / and the oxe that was fed to be ſanctified vntounto Baall / and the woode conſecrated vntounto the Idoll / were conuerted to the ſeruice of the liuing God / when you ſhall proue that the ſurplice is ſo neceſſary to the ſeruice of God / as gold / and ſiluer / and other mettal / and as oxen and woode / wherof the firſt ſort were ſuch / as without the which / the temple could not be builte / the other / ſuche as were expreſly commaunded of God / to be vſed in hys ſeruice / then I will confeſſe that this place maketh ſome thing for you. And yet if your copes / and ſurplices. &c. ſhoulde hauehave ſuche a purgation by fire / as thoſe metalles had / or euer the Lord would admit them into his treaſure houſe / and ſhuld be driuen to paſſe from popery vntounto the goſpel / by the chimney / the fire would make ſuch wracke wyth them / that they ſhould neede hauehave better legs / then your arguments / to bring them into the church.
Moreouer / do you not ſee heere / that you hauehave not loſed the knot / but cutte it. For the authors of the Admonition obiect the place of Eſay / and you obiecte 30. Chap. 22.againe / the places of Deuteronomie / and of the Iudges / this is to oppoſe ſword againſt ſworde: in ſtead that you ſhuld hauehave firſt holden out your buckler / & latched the blow of your aduerſary. As for churches / it hath ben anſwered that they hauehave a profitable vſe / and therefore very euill compared with the ſurplice / whych beſide that it bringeth no profite / hurteth alſo as is before ſayde.
To be ſhort (ſayth M. Doctor) when he reciteth me almoſt a whole ſide word for word / as he hath cited before / wher he hath had his anſwere. After this he ſetteth him ſelfe to proue that they edifye / and that firſt by M. Bucers / and M. Martyrs authoritye / and yet in their wordes before alledged / there is not a worde of edifying. If he gather it of their wordes / the anſwere is already made. Then he bringeth reaſons to proue it / whereof in the firſt he ſeemeth to reaſon / that becauſe it is commaunded by a lawfull magiſtrate / and lawfull authoritye / therfore it edifieth. As though a lawful magiſtrate doth nothing at any time vnlawfully / or as thoughe a lawfull and a godly magiſtrate / dothe not ſometimes commaund things / whych are inconuement and vnlawfull. Saule was a lawfull magiſtrate / and did commaund vnlawfull things. Dauid was a lawfull and godly magiſtrate / and yet there ſlipt from him commaundementes / whych were neither lawfull / nor godly. But he addeth that it is done for order / and for decencie / wythout ſuperſtition / or ſuſpition of it. This is that whych is in controuerſy / and oughte to be proued / and M. Doctor ſtill taketh it as graunted / and ſtill faulteth in the petition of the principle / wherwith he chargeth others.
The ſecond reaſon is / that they that weare thys apparell / hauehave edified / and do edify: whych is / as if a man would ſay / the midwiues whych lied vntounto Pharao / did much good amongſt the Iſraelites / Ergo, their lying did much good. If Exod. 1. 19.he will ſay / the compariſon is not like / becauſe the one is not ſinne in hys owne nature / whereas the other is ſinne / then take thys: One that ſtammereth and ſtutteth in his tōg / edifieth the people / therfore ſtammering and ſtutting / is good to edifie. For what if the Lorde geue hys bleſſing vntounto hys worde / and to other good giftes whych he hath that preacheth and weareth a ſurplice. &c. Is it to be thought therfore / that he liketh well of the wearing of that apparell? This is to aſſigne the cauſe of a thing to that / whych is not only not the cauſe thereof / but ſome hinderance alſo / and ſ…aking of that / wherof it is ſuppoſed to be a cauſe. For a man may rather reaſon / that for as much as they which preache wt ſurplice. &c. edify / (notwithſtāding that they therby driue away ſome / and to other ſome giuegive …ſpition of euill. &c.) if they preached wythout wearing any ſuche thyng / they ſhould edify much more. And yet if a man were aſſured to gaine a thouſande / by doing of that which may offend / or cauſe to fall one brother / he ought not to do it.
The third reaſon is / yt they which conſent in wearing the ſurplices / conſent alſo in all other poynts of doctrine / and they that do not weare it / do not conſent / not ſo much as amongſt them ſelues. If this conſent in the poynts of religion be in the ſurplice / cope. &c. tel vsus I beſeche you / whether in the matter / or in y• form / or in what hid and vnknowne quality ſtādeth it? if it be in that the miniſters vſe all one apparell / then it is maruell that this being ſo ſtrong a bond to holde them togither in godly vnitie / that it was neuer commaūded of Chriſt / nor practiſed of prophets or apoſtles / neuer of no other reformed churches. I had thought wholy / that thoſe things which the lord appoynteth to maintaine & kepe vnitie with / & eſpecially the holy ſacramēts of baptiſme / & of the lords ſupper / had ben ſtrong enough to hauehave firſt of all knit vsus vntounto the lord / & therfore alſo to his doctrine / & then one of vsus to an other / & that the diſſenting in ſuch a ceremony as a ſurplice. &c. neither ſhould nor could in thoſe that pertaine vntounto God / breake the vnitie of the ſpirit / whych is boūd wyth the bond of truth. And although there be whych like not this apparell / that thinke otherwiſe then either their brethren / or then in dede they ought to do / yet a man may finde greater diſſent amongſt thoſe / whych are vnited in ſurplice & cope. &c. then there is / amongſt thoſe which weare them not / either wt them ſelues / or wt them that weare them. For how many there are that weare ſurplices / which would be gladder to ſay a maſſe / than to heare a ſermon / let all ye world iudge. And of thoſe y• do weare this apparel / & be otherwiſe wel minded to ye goſpel / are ther not which wil wear ye ſurplis / & not ye cap: other ye wil weare both cap & ſurplice / but not the tippet / & yet a third ſort / ye wil weare ſurplice / cap / & tippet / but not the cope. It hath ben the maner alwayes of wiſe & learned men / to eſteme of things by the cauſes / & not by the euent / & that eſpecially in matters of religion / for if they ſhuld be eſtemed of the euent / who is there which wil not condemne the Iſraelites battell againſt Aye / & afterward againſt Ioſua. 8. Iudges. 20.the Beniamites? which notwithſtanding / the cauſe which was Gods wiſt / and Gods commaundement iuſtifieth. And therfore in a worde I anſwere / ye if there be ſuch conſent amongſt thoſe which like wel of this apparell / and ſuch iarres amongſt thoſe that like it not (as M. doctor wold make the world beleue) neither is the wearing of the ſurplice. &c. cauſe of ye conſent in them / nor the not wearing cauſe of the diſagrement in the other. But as our knowledge & louelove is vnperfect here in this world / ſo is our agrement & conſent of iudgemēt vnperfect. And yet all theſe harde ſpeaches of yours / or vncharitable ſuſpitions of papiſme / anabaptiſme / cathariſine / donatiſme. &c. wherby you do as much (as lieth in you) to cut vsus cleane of from you / ſhal not be able ſo to eſtrange vsus or ſeperate vsus from you / but that we wil by gods grace hold / what ſo euer you hold well / & kepe that vnitie of ſpirit / which is the bond of truth / euē with you M. doctor / whom we ſuppoſe as appeareth by this your boke / to hauehave ſet your ſelfe further from vsus / then numbers of thoſe / which although they be content to receiue the apparel / & beare wt things / yet wold hauehave ben loth to hauehave ſet downe ye againſt the ſinceritie of the goſpel / & hinderance of reformation / which you hauehave done. The white apparell / which is a note & true repreſentation of the glory & purenes in the angels / ſhuld Act. 1. 10.be a lying ſigne / & pretēce of yt which is not in ye miniſters / which are miſerable / & ſinful men. And our ſauior Chriſt / which was the miniſter of God / & pure from ſin / & therfore meteſt to weare ye marke of purenes / vſed no ſuch kinde of weede / ſauing only for ye ſmal time / wherin he wold geue to his diſciples in the mount / a taſt of that glory which he ſhuld enioy for euer / & they with him: where / for the time his apparel appeared as white as ſnow. And if it be mete that the miniſters Mark. 9. 3.ſhuld repreſent the angels in their apparel / it is much more mete / that they ſhuld hauehave a paire of wings as the angels are deſcribed to hauehave / to put them in remē brance Iſay. 6. 2.of their readines & quicknes to execute their office / which may and ought to be in them / then to weare white apparell / whych is a token of purenes from ſinne and infection / and of a glorye whych neither they hauehave / nor can hauehave / nor ought ſo much as to deſire to hauehave / as long as they be in thys world.
And whereas the maintainers of this apparell / hauehave for their greateſt defence / that it is a thyng meere ciuill: to let paſſe / that they confounde Eccleſiaſticall orders wyth ciuill (whych they can no more iuſtly do / then to confounde the church wyth the common wealth) I ſay to let that pas / they do by thys meanes not only make it an Eccleſiaſtical ceremonie / but alſo a matter of conſcience. For if ſo be that the white apparell of the miniſter hauehave any force / either to moue the people / or the miniſter vntounto greater purenes / or to any other godlynes whatſoeuer / then it is that whych ought to be commaunded / and to be obeyed of neceſſity / and to be retained / althoughe the contrarye were forbidden. And then alſo if there be a vertue in a white garment / and the ſignification therof be ſo ſtrong to worke godlynes / it were meete that order were taken / that the whiteſt clothe ſhould be bought / that it ſhould be often (at the leaſt eueryevery weeke once) waſhed by a very good launder / and wyth ſope: for if the white helpe / more white helpeth more / and that whych is moſte white / helpeth moſte of all to godlynes. Although the church hauehave authoritye to make ceremonies (ſo they be according to the rules before recited of Gods glory / and profiting the congregation) I coulde for all that neuer yet learne / that it had power to giuegive newe ſignifications / as it were to inſtitute newe ſacramentes. And by this meanes is taken cleane awaye from vsus / the holde whych we hauehave againſt the papiſtes / whereby (againſt all the goodly ſhewes whych they make by the coloure of theſe ſignifications) we ſay / that the word of God / and the ſacramentes / of baptiſme / and of the ſupper of the Lord / are ſufficient to teache / to admoniſhe / and to put vsus in remembrance of all duetye whatſoeuer. So we are nowe come to the ſuperſtition of the Grecians / for as they will hauehave neyther grauen / nor carued image in their Churches / but painted / ſo we wil nether hauehave grauen / nor carued / nor painted / but wouē. And truely I ſee no cauſe / why we may not hauehave as wel holy water & holy bread / if this reaſon whych is here / be good: for I am ſure ye ſignifications of them are as gloryous as this of the ſurplice / and call to remembraunce as neceſſarye things. And if it be ſayde / that it maye not be / leaſt the number of ceremonies ſhoulde be to too great / it may be eaſely anſweared / that theſe whych we hauehave may be taken away / and thoſe ſet in place of them. And therefore althoughe the ſurplice hauehave a blacke ſpot / when it is whiteſt / yet is it not ſo blacke as you make it wyth your white ſignifications / nor the cauſe ſo euill as you defend it. If you pres me with M. Martyrs / and M. Bucers authoritye / I firſt ſay they were men / & therefore (although otherwiſe very watchfull) yet ſuch as ſlept ſome times. And then I appeale from their Apocryphas / vntounto their knowne wrytings / and from their priuate letters / vntounto their publike recordes. M. Doctor proceedeth to proue that they are ſignes and ſhewes of good / and not of euill / as the authors of the admonition alleage. To the proufe wherof / although (according to his manner) he repeateth diuers things before alleaged / yet the ſumme of all he hath comprehended in an argument / whych is / that for ſo muche as the miniſters are good whych weare them / therfore they are alſo good: and becauſe the miniſters whereof the apparell are notes / and markes be good: therefore thoſe be good notes and good markes: ſo the reaſon is they are notes / and notes of good miniſters / therefore they be good notes of the miniſters. So I will proue the names of idolles / to be fit and conuenient names for good men to be called by. Beltſhaſer / Shaddrake / Daniel. 1. 7.Miſacke / and Abed-nego were names of Daniell and hys three companions / and they were the names of good men / therefore they are good names of men. And ſo the names of the Babylonian Idols / are by thys reaſon of M. Doctor / iuſtified to be good names. Again / ye golden calfe was a ſigne. Alſo it was a ſigne of the true God: therefore it was a true ſigne of God. Concerning the notes of Exod. 32. 4.ciuill profeſſions / and what difference is betweene thoſe and thys cauſe / I hauehave ſpoken before.
You ſay the cauſe of diſcorde is not in the apparell / but in the mindes of men. You meane I am ſure / thoſe that refuſe the apparell / but if you make them authors of diſcord / becauſe they conſent not wyth you in wearing / do you not ſee it is as ſoone ſayde / that you are the cauſers of diſcorde / becauſe you doe not conſent wyth thoſe whych were not? for as there ſhould be vnitie in that poynte / if all did weare that apparell / ſo ſhould there be / if all did weare none of it. It is a very vnequall compariſon that you compare the vſe of thys apparell / wyth the vſe of wine / and of a ſworde / whych are profitable and neceſſary / but it is more intollerable / that you match it wyth the word of God. I could throwe it as farre downe / as you lifte it vp / but I will not doe ſo. Thys only I will ſaye / if there were no harme in it / and that it were alſo profitable / yet for as much as it is not commaunded of God expreſly / but a thing (as you ſay) indifferent / and notwithſtanding is cauſe of ſo many incommodities / and ſo abuſed (as I hauehave before declared) it ought to be ſufficient reaſon to aboliſh them: ſeing that the braſen ſerpent Nom. 21. 8. 9. 2. Reg. 18. 4.whych was inſtituted of the Lorde him ſelfe / and contained a profitable remembrance of the wonderfull benefite of God towardes hys people was beaten to pouder / when as it began to be an occaſion of falling vntounto the children of Iſrael: and ſeeing that S. Paule after the louelove feaſtes (whych were kepte at the adminiſtration of the Lords ſupper / and were meanes to nouriſhe louelove amongſt 1. Cor. 11. 22.the churches) were abuſed & drawne to an other vſe thē they were firſt ordained, did vtterly take them away / & commaund that they ſhuld not be vſed any more.
The reſt of that whych followeth in this matter / is nothing elſe / but either that whych hath bene often times repeated / or elſe reprochefull words / or vniuſt accuſations of contempt of magiſtrates / wythout any proufe at all / and therfore are ſuche / as eyther are anſwered / or whych I will not voutchſafe to anſwere / eſpecially ſeeing that I meane not to giuegive reproche for reproche / and reuiling for reuiling: and ſeeing that I hauehave before proteſted of our humble ſubmiſſion / and louing feare or reuerence / whych we beare to the Prince / and thoſe whych are appoynted magiſtrates vnderneathe her.
And therfore I will conclude / that for ſo muche as the ceremonies of Antichriſtianitie / are not / nor can not be / the fitteſt to ſette forthe the goſpell / and for that they are occaſions of fall to ſome / of hinderance to other ſome / of griefe and alienation of mindes vntounto others (the contrary of all which / ought to be conſidered in eſtabliſhing of things indifferent in the churche) therefore neyther is thys apparell fitteſt for the miniſter of the goſpell / and if it were / yet conſidering the incommodities that come of the vſe of it / it ſhould be remoued.
To the next ſection in the. 62. and. 63. pages.
YOu know they allow ſtudying for ſermones / and amplifying and expoūding of the ſcriptures / & why then do you aſke? But by thys queſtion you would hauehave your reader thinke / or at the leaſt hauehave the authors of the Admonition in ſuſpition / that they liked not of ſtudy for ſermones. God make vsus more carefull of the good name of our brethren / then by ſuch light and vngrounded ſuſpitions / nay wythoute any ſuſpition / nay contrary to that whych is daily ſeene and harde / to raiſe vp ſuche ſlaunderous reportes of them. But Homilies are ſmally beholding vntounto you / whych to proue that they may be red in the churche / alledge that Auguſtin and Chryſoſtome made ſermones in their churches: for that whych we call a ſermon / they called of the Greke worde an Homilie / ſo that the argument is / that Auguſtine and Chryſoſtome preached ſermons / or Homilies in their churches / therefore we may read homilies in oures. But peraduenture you hauehave ſome better thing to ſay for them afterward.
To the ſection beginning in the latter end of the. 63. page.
A Hundreth poundes by yeare is taken of ſome benefice / for whych foure ſermons only are preached / and thoſe ſome times by an other. If this be more painefull then gainefull / it is becauſe the horſſe Leche hathe two daughters / Pro. 30. 15.giuegive / giuegive. &c. And I can not ſee howe they can be more glorious / vnles the palace were turned into a courte / and their chaire into a throne. There are diuers places that God hath bleſſed wyth peace / where the miniſters take more paine / and hauehave les gaine / and whych make * les noyſe when they goe in the ſtreates. Math. 12. 19.We hauehave amongſte vsus whych hauehave had Byſhopprickes offered / and as thyngs vnmeete for a miniſter of the Goſpell / hauehave refuſed them. God be prayſed / the Sunne ſhineth not ſo hotte in this Countrey nowe / that you neede to complaine of any great heate / and if you feele any heate / you hauehave better ſhade then Ionas had by hys gourde.Ionas. 4. 6.