A Stay Against Straying, Part 1 – Part 2

A Stay Against Straying · Part 1 – Part 2

p. 1SECTION I.

An anſvver to the nameles Epistoler.

HOwſoever the publiſher of the Treatiſe hath thought it fit to conceale his name:**it is queſtion, vvhethe… he vvere not a ſhamed, to put his name to it. a. pro: 27. 14. yet he hath prefixed to it, a large preface, wherein with a Loud voyce a he bleſſeth the authour, his friend, and the worke it ſelfe, and ſeekes by manie unchriſtiā ſpeaches, to diſgrace ſome men what he can, inregard they Zealouſlie oppoſed his new minion Idol.

Three reaſons he giues, why (after 9. yeares concealement,) he hath now Publiſhed the booke▪ firſt the large abilities of the author a boue many others. &c.

Anſw: 1. this ground is ſandy, and he ſpeakes (**Ar… foreign) p. 2beſides the matter: For howſoeuer we confeſſe, that the Author, was a godlie & learned man: notwith ſtanding it followes not, that whatſoeuer he ſaid, it was therfore true, & neceſſarilie to be publiſhed. Without offence that fitlie may be applyed to him, which a learned writer, writes of Chriſoſtome, aaCal…ehil Treatiſe of the Croſſe pag. 26.he was not without his fault. his goulden mouth wherin he paſſed others, had otherwhile leaden wordes, which yeelded to errour & abuſe of the time.

2. Had the Piſtler reſpected (as he ſhould) the authors large abilities, he would not hauehave made that booke ſo commō as he hath done, to the mans great diſhonour. When one Pammachius bbIeroms … Epiſt: ad pamm:a Learned Man, vnderſtood that Hierome, had writen ſome thinges amiſſe, againſt Iovinian, he ſought to ſuppreſſe all the Copies, & to hauehave them concealed, till the faults therein were corrected. If the Publiſher ccLet ſuch as had a hand this vvay thinke of Chriſts vvorde… in mat. 18. 7. vvo… to them by vvhome offences come.or others, had ſo don with that firſt copie which they found in his ſtudie, they had don wel, & manifeſted good affection to the author: but in that they cauſed ſo vile a thing to be ſpread abroad, they did ill, & were his enemies. And here I thinke of that ſentence in Eccleſ: 10. 1. dead flies cauſe the oy…ēt of the Apothecary to ſend foorth a ſtinking ſauour: ſo doth a little folly, him that is in reputation for wiſedome and honour. I acknowledge to Gods glory, and the Treatiſers due Prayſe, that there are in print of his, ſundry fruitfull treatiſesddSpecially his Iuſtification of ſeparation. a booke ſo ſufficientlie penned as no Adverſary hetherto durſt reply.: but certanelie this publiſhed ſince his death, is like the wild gourd in the Pottage, a cheife cauſe that the former are the leſſe accepted with the godlie. It is true therfore as Ferus eeferus Annot. in Eccleſic; 10. v. 1. fol. 95. 2… Chro: 19. 12. 1. King: …. 46.ſayth one fault depriues men of many fauours. Iehoſaphats neere affinitie with Ahabs houſe, marvelouſlie eclipſed his other vertues: ſo the Treat: his pleading for Antichriſtian Preiſts, & the hearing of them, lies as a great blott vponupon him. But what ſhall I ſay, there is no man that liueth & ſinneth not. Wiſe men doe not thinges ſomtimes wiſelie.ffNemo morta… omnibus … ſapit▪ plin.

3. It is a weake ground to perſwade men to embrace any doctrine from the large abilities of ſome perſons holding it: for we are charged, not to beleeue what an Angel from heauens ggGal. 1. 8.Gal 1:8ſhould teach us, if he ſpeake not according to the Oracles of God. The imitators of Alexander thought it not enought, to follow him in his vertues, but in his ſtouping & other geſtures. But chriſtians hauehave learned to doe better: to wit,In a certaine ſermon vvhichwhich he made to▪ young men. to leaue all men (be he kinge, miniſter, maiſter &c) where they leaue the truth. Baſil for this purpoſe vſeth a fine ſimilitude; we muſt (ſayth he) be pertakers of other mens ſayings, after the manner of bees: they fly not to all flowers, nor where they ſitt, doe the cropp them quite away, but take only ſo much, as ſufficeth to their honie making: ſo we, (if we wilbe wiſe) muſt take from others, ſo much as is ſound, & agreable to truth, & for the reſt not meddle with it.

p. 3His ſecond reaſon is, the worth of the worke. For it were (ſaith he) great I ittie **It ſeemes the 9. yeares before he printed it he vvanted pitty.that ſuch a worke as this ſhould be concealed: And therfore he tels vsus in the title page, he hath publiſhed it for the common good. And in the concluſion of the preface, deſires the Lord, to make the whole worke (for the generall good now ſet foorth) profittable to thoſe that louelove the truth.

Anſw: 1. The thinges that are not faire, ſeeme faire to him that is in louelove. **Theocrit▪ i… Bucoliaſt.So Daphius, in the poet ſaith to Polephemus. It is iuſt ſo with ſuperſtitious men, they thinke paſſinge well of their vaine in ventions, howbeit they have no reaſon for it.

And ſurely, were it not, but that this man is Fallen exceſſiuelie in louelove with the Treatyſe, **Quid non cogit amer. martial, l. 4. Encolphe would not ſo applaud it, much leſſe hauehave been at the charge of the printing. But what may be reaſō, that he & others, are ſo in louelove with it? if they would anſwere here [bona fide,] my mind giues mee, they would ſay as Samſon did when he deſired to take a wife of the vncircumciſed Philiſtines: ſhe pleaſeth me well aaIudg: 14. 3.So theſe covet to be vnequallie yoaked with this harlot-hearing: becauſe it pleaſeth them wel. & why ſo? oh it leads them vntounto an eaſie & plauſible walkinge: they hauehave a tricke now to deceiue the Prelates, & to ſhunne Perſecution for the croſſe of Chriſt.

2. Touching a common good, this is the common pretence of all deceiuers,bbPro; 1, 11. 12 1. Pet. 2. 19. Eze. 12. 22.1 Pet 2:19Ezek 12:22 and the ſame as old almoſt as the world: for the Devil uſed it,ccGen. 3, 2. 30.Gen 3:2Gen 3:30 to beguile the woman in Paradiſe ſaying God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof ye ſhalbe as Gods. He reaſoneth here (as Pareus ddComment: in Gen: c. 3. v: 5. p. 115. Tom: 1.obſerveth on the place) to this effect that which wilbe for your good,eeDuaran: diſtinct: 8. Field of the Church. l. 3. p. 157. 158. Sanders de viſib: m…n: lib: 5. ought not to be omitted: But the eating of the forbidden fruit wilbe ſo: (for yee ſhalbe as Gods:) Therefore, &c.

And the childrē of this wicked one, hauehave ſince in this followed their fathers ſtepts: for what lies & beaſtlie vanities are there extant, but the authors in publiſhing of them, hauehave profeſſed an ayming at Publick profitt? Was not the Hierarchie that monſtrous monſter, cunningly erected at firſt (& to this day juſtified) vnderunder couler of common good: ee22. Gui…. hard l. 4. c. 6. ſun. Lomb. l. 4. Rhem in 1. Cor. 14. Soct. l.1 Cor 14namelie to Preſerue the vnitie & peace of the Church: for the auoyding of ſchiſines and factions and that there may be no Tyranny or oppreſſion among brethren. The like may be ſaid of the maſſe, merits, purgatorie,dd2…. Qu…ſt. 1. art 1. Polidor l. 6. c. 12. invent: pilgrimages, bowing at Altars, praying to Angels, worſhipping of Images, Croſſes, Pardons, Holie oyle, Faſts, Feaſts, abſolution by preiſts, prayer in an vnknowne tongue: & the reſt of the filthy traſh & dung in Babilō:Allexan ab. Allexxan: l 3. doe not the couetuous marchants of that ſee, tel theire chapmen all is for common good: [ſe**Sotus l. 4 diſtinct 43. art 3. Bellarm. de purgat. l. 2. c. 17. Thomas Aquin: … diſt: their Bookes] Not but their bels in the tower, and the croſſe on the ſteeple, are ſet vp vnderunder a pretence of common good: the one beeing to driue away euil ſpirits▪ & the other to keepe the Church from burninge, p. 4To vel vsus therefore of common good, we tel him, Plus aloēs. quam mellis habet. **Iuvenal: Sat: 6.. This is but a cunning bait, which impoſters formerlie have vſed, to draw ſimple people into a ſnare. But to keepe our ſelues from it, we need goe no further, then to a ſaying of an Ethnicke: That onlie are we to eſteeme good & profittable, which we ſee to be right and lawfull **Nihil vtile, quod non idem iuſtum et honeſtum. Cic: De Offic li…: 3..

But ſeeing the thinge he pleads for, is moſt vnrighteous, (for it tends to the diſhonour of Gods great name, the diſcredit of the goſpel, the keeping backe of many from receyuing the louelove of the truthaaVVitne ſie many in England, vvhichwhich hold the pariſh Churcher falſe, and yet goe thether to heare, beeing miſled by this Treat:) great pitty it was, ſo corrupt a thinge euer ſaw the light, but rather had periſhed in the birth, or at leaſt, upon the firſt ſight of it, the finders had burned it, as the bookes mentioned in Act: 19. 19. For ſo a great deale of common hurt had beē prevented in the Churches of God, and in the world too, Woe vntounto them that call euil good. bbEſa. 5. 20.Isa 5:20.

His third reaſon is, to preſerue the Churches priuileidge: defend Chriſts cauſe againſt the enemies of God, which ayme at the vtter ruinating of the Church, & labour to rent it in peeces, &c.

Anſw, The Romanes [as it is reportedccVarre.) keept in Capitolio certaine dogs & Geeſe, which by their barking, & gagling ſhould giuegive warning in the night, of theeues that entered in but if they cryed out in the day time, when there was no ſuſpicion, their legs were to be broken of, becauſe they cryed when there was noe cauſe. If the Publiſhers contēding here, be [ddDoctrinsa vana eſt, rati… ut acceſſerit. Tull: as he ſayes himſelfe] to preſerue the churches privileidge. & the thinge certaine which he chargeth his brethren with: to weet, that they were the troblers of Iſrael. let him then (foreign **Suidas:) we are the laurel. But if he be erronious in the one, & a falſe accuſer in the other, I hope among the godly wiſe, he ſhall hauehave his demerit accordinly. To the matter.

Firſt that hearing of falſe miniſters is a privileidge of Gods Church, I denie it, this is but the froth of his owne lips, neither ſoled nor ſauerie: as wel he may ſay, that whoredome is a womans priviledge: theift a ſervants: rebellion a ſubjects: diſobedience childrens: reaſon and ground there is alike. And to proue this, thus I reaſon.

What ſoeuer God hath beſtowed vponupon his Church as her priviledge, the ſame is to be found in his word: But it is not mentioned there, that true beleeuers (as their priviledge) ought to heare Antichriſtian Teachers: Ergo: &c.

The propoſition is vnqueſtionablie certaine by theſe ſcriptures. Pſa: 19. 7. 2. Timot 3. 15. 16. Eſa. 8 20. Iohn. 15. 17. Act. 20. 27.

Beſides this is the vnanimous conſent of learned writers. The ſcriptures (ſayth AthanatiuseeCont, Gent. In Iohn. hom. 49.) doe helpe vsus with the knowledge of euerie truth. Here (ſaith Auguſtine f.) we find whatſoeuer is to be don, or not p. 5don Allthings (ſayth ChriſoſtomeggComment: in 2 Theſe: 2.) that are meet to be knowne, in Gods word are manifeſted. The ſame ſayth Iuſtine hhIn Apol: 2. et. inſt. Stror…. l. 6., Clemens ii2. Lib. 2. e. l.Paraeus kkDiſput. Aphoriſ iu Bellarm de verb. dei. Aphor. 1.Polanus, llSynt. theol. lib. 1. C. 46., Cartwright mmAnſvv. to the Rhem on Heb. 9 ſec…. 2.Heb 9, B, Hall nnRom. irrecon. ſect. 16., D. Iames ooManuduct. to divinit. Pag. 1.. & others. The Aſſumption is proved thus: If the hearing in queſtion be condemned in ſcripture: then it is no priviledge of the Church: but the firſt is true. therfore the ſecond.

The firſt part which is only controverſall is evident & cleare by theſe ſcriptures. Levit. 17. 3. 4. deu. 12. 5. Pro. 5. 8. Hoſ. 4. 15. Mat. 7. 15. 2. Cor. 7. 15. 16. 17. Reuel: 18. 4. Son. 1. 6. 7. To this all ſorts of writers aſcent. Zanchie ppExplicat. in Philp. c. 3. ver. 2, pag. 17 4. Tom. 4.on philip. 3. 2. Beware of doggs: Writes thus: Tales doctores, qui teſtimonium non habent ab Apoſtolis, Apoſtoliciſque viris atque eccleſijs: nempe ſumma diligentia ac ſtudio curandum eſſe, vt eos obſervemus, cognoſcamus, et fugiamus: Such Teachers as hauehave not their authortie, From the Apoſtles, and Apoſtolical men, & true churches, we ought with great ſtudie and care to obſerue, know, & auoyd them. The AuthorsqqAdmon. …. pag. 27. of the Admonition to the parliament affirme: Whoſoeuer preacheth by an vnlawfull calling he may not be heard: noe, though he ſpeake the truth, no more then the Devil was to be ſuffered, howbeit he preached Christ. As God (ſayth One rrT. C. repl. 1. p. 83. 155.) hath ordained that the word ſhould be preached, ſo alſo in what order & by whome: And therfore as we care for the truth, ſo we muſt of whome we receiue it. So judicious Rolloc:ssComment. in 1 Theſ. 5. 21. l. P. 228.1 Thess 5:21: Non audiendi et explorandi ſunt, niſi qui antegreſtam ad id vocationē habent aliquam. They are not to be heard & tryed, who hauehave not a lawfull fore-gooing calling to the miniſterie. And of the ſame iudgment, is Rivetus, ttComment. in pſa. 16. pag. 52, muſculus vvComment. in Mat. 7. 15.Matt 7:15, Oecolampadius xxComment. in Eſa. c. 2. ſol. 20.Isa 2, Calvin yyin Pſal. 16.Ps 16, Fenner aaInterpretat. Son. chap. 1, …. 6. 7., Lation bbSyons Plea. pag. 283.: yea the papiſts in this point are ſounder then either the Piſtler or his Leader.: Paul,ccThe Popes firſt Breue, dated in the years 1606,, the fift, in a certaine Bull ſent to his Calues in England (Catholikes Imight hauehave ſaid) chargeth them by all meanes, not to goe to the pariſh Churches, or heare their ſermons, leaſt they incurre the wrath of God. The RhemiſtsddAnnot in 1. Cor. 10. ſest, 211 Cor 10 ſay the like: ſo the Doway tranſlators. & adde thus: Such as goe vntounto falſe Churches, are to be counted of that ranke Paul ſpeakes of, in Tit. 1. Vit. who confeſse they know God but in workes deny. him.eeIn 1 king. chap. 5. v. 19..

For the munition therfore which he ſpeakes of here, if this ſinſull hearing be his beſt, to preſerue Gods Church from the attempts of adverſaries. Let him keepe it himſelf: for we know (oh that we had neuer knowne it) by vnhappy experience, the uſe & nature of it. As the Iewes of old by taking the Aegyptians for their munition ffEſa. 30. 2. 3.Isa 30:2Isa 30:3, where it hath entertainment, a very fyer-brand that conſumeth the building: a Gangrene that ſtayes not in one place but corrupteth by p. 6degrees the whole body, & kils ItaaFernel, Amb. phyſiolog. l, 7. … p 6….: in a word it is as the wild Bore of the foreſt, which waſteth the Lords vineard.bbVVitneſſe the Church of Leiden vvhe by this meanes novv ſits ſol…tary, that vvas full of people. thy Calſe O Samaria hath caſt thee off. hoſ. 8. 5.

The Butler talkes of Athalias ſpirit, & compares his oppoſites to her, but ſurelie were not his eyes blinded, with the vnlawfull louelove of his deare Delilah, he might ſee that the ſimilitude holds better another way. Did not that wicked woman occaſion trobles in Iſrael,cc2 King. 11.2 Kgs 11 by ſeekinge to put downe their right kinge, & ſet vp her ſelfe (a vſurper & murderer) in the place of him: now what elſe (ſpeake on your credit) hath this idolatrous hearing don, ſince the time it was hatched? but like the thinge that God hates, ſowed diſcord among brethren, ddPro. 6. 19.Prov 6:19& why? becauſe it tendeth to the putting downe, of our true king Chriſt Ieſus, & to rayſe vp Antichriſt againe, that bloodie Tirant.

2. Touchinge the perſonall wronge here offered to his oppoſites: as naming them the enemies of God, church renters, ſchiſme-makers: matching them with moſt notorious ſinners: & publiſhinge to the world private thinges purpoſelie to diſgrace them. I thinke this not worthy of anſwere: the men are now at reſt: beſides ſuch was their good walking when they liued, as that his vncharitable tongue and pen, cannot weakē their wel deſerued praiſe, among the ſaints that knew them. Notwithſtanding ſober words would better hauehave becommed him. Is this religion? is this conſcience? is this charitie? To tell in the eares of the world priuate things againſt brethren. Methinkes the man ſhould bluſh at it: ſpecyallie beeing reputed (or at leaſt would be) one of large Charitie, eetantane animis caleſtibus …rae, Aneid. l. 1.and a great reprouer of others for raſh cenſuringe: Now knowes he not what an odious thinge it is, to condemne that thinge in another, wherein he himſelfe in the meane time is a tranſgreſſor, this not onlie lies vnderunder the iuſt reproofe of the ſcriptures.ffMat 7. 3 4. Rom 1. 21.Matt 7:3Rom 1:21 But alſo condemned by heathens. It is note of follie (ſaith Tully) ggeſt enim proprium ſtulriti… aleg…ru… vitiae cernere obliviſſi ſuorum. Tul: de offi…. l. 3.to ſee another mans faults & forgett oure owne, foe in the Poet.

Turpe eſt doctori, cum culpa redarguit ipſum.

But it is no new thinge, for ſuch as are earneſtlie zealous for the churches reformation, that all thinges may be there according to the divine patterne, to be tongue-bitten by innovators & corruptors of religion: for ſo were the Prophets vſed,hh… King. 18. 18 Eze: 4. 15. Ame 7. 10. ſo was ChriſtiiLuk. 23. 25. Ieh. 19. 12.Luke 23:25 &kkAct 19. 12. Act. 17. 6. Act. 24. 6.Acts 19:12Acts 17:6Acts 24:6 his Apoſtles ſerued by the Iewes. So in ages after, Conſtantine llS…zomen: l. 1. c. 8.was accuſed as a pervertor of Gods order, becauſe he furthered and followed chriſtianity. Other goodmen wanted not thier croſſe this way, but were alwayes reuiled with moſt words of reproach, & deemed of their adverſaries the vileſt perſons of the earth. When the Scythians as Juſtine mmJuſt. l. 2.reports ſaw they could not overcome their enemies with weapons: they laid them aſide & tooke vp whips. Men in errour doe ſo: finding in ſcriptures nothinge for them, they make whips p. 7with their tongues: that is, ſlaunder allwayes their oppoſites with hereſie; ſchiſme, pride, obſtinacy, diſloyalty, ſedition, et quid non: hoping to get that by rayling, of which they hauehave no … to get by reaſoning.aaSuch a one he ſeemes to be▪ that hath ſett forth the Nevv Engliſh Canaon. the prophane Iſmael ſeekes to diſgrace the truth by ſcoffing at it. As he loued curſing, ſo let it come unto him as hedelighted not in bleſsing, ſo let it be farre from him pſa: 109, 17.

3. But to ſpeake a litle of the accuſation it ſelfe: How ſoeueuer I will not meddle with their diviſiō, neither iuſtifie his oppoſites in the man̄er of their departure: not withſtanding, al though he wipe his mouth, & would make others, cheife authors of the breach: yet the truth is, he & ſuch which went ordinarilie unto falſe churches, with ſuch as iuſtified and abetted ſo vile a practice, were principallie the inſtruments, of that great ſcandall. It is a receiued Tenent amongſt the learned: Such are the cauſers of contention, that bringe new doctrines into the Churches of God.

bbCommen. in Rom. 16. 17. 18. ot. 1 Cor. 1. p. 7.Rom 16:17Rom 16:181 Cor 1Pareus deſcribes the authors of diſſentions, to be men that adulterate pure doctrine by humane inventions, violate the diſcipline of the Church, & ſeeke by ſugred words, & counterfeit zeale to pervert others. To the ſame effect writes Gaulter,ccComment. in Rom: 16. 17. Mornaeus,ddlib: de Eceleſ. l. 2. Martyr,eede Calib et vot: cont. Smit. Morton, f Parker:ggOn the Croſſed pa. 2. c. 9. ſect. 3 p. 116 yea ſome Papiſts too, as CaſsanderhhDe Rora. Eceleſ. art, 7. & others.

To apply this, ſeeing the Publiſher and others with him, hauehave committed apparent idolatry, meantained it in the Church, & ſought thereby, to pervert the right wayes of the Lord, and to draw the ſincere into errour & ſinne: it muſt follow neceſſarilie, that the ſtrife & contention which hath fallen out vponupon it, either among brethren of their owne congregation or elſe where, came cheiflie by their occation, & meanes.

For the exclamation therefore, which he and others take vp againſt the godlie,iiApol. l. 2. for their contentions, I mind it truly, as a great prophanes in them. We would count him a moſt vile perſon, that would doe whatſoeuer he could, to make another angry, and when he ſaw him ſo, would reproach him for it, blaze it abroad, ſpeake of it behind his back, to his great diſgrace. It were happy for ſome if they had neuer abuſed Gods people this way, by ſeeking (as it were) to anger them in hearing vnlawfull miniſters, marying their wiues by Popiſh licenſes, thorow juſtifying halters & neuters, comunicating ſpiritually with Antichriſtians: & other ſuch muddy ſtuffe found the valy: & afterwards perceuing them to be ſtirred hereat, cry out with a full mouth. oh what a contentious people are they, oh how ſcandalous, better for aman to walke alone, then with ſuch a compaine. And this ſhalbe publiſhed in Gath & Aſkelon, that the enemies of the Lord may rejoyſe & triumph.**A ſeru… that runns avvaye … of his maiſter.

But good it were, that theſe make bates did conſider of that great day, in which Chriſt ſhall appeare in the brightnes of his father, p. 8to auenge the quarle of his leaſt commaundement? when God ryſeth aaIoh 31. 14.vp, wh… … they anſwere him? what will they ſay, when he ſhall not only cl…ge them, with idolatrie & covenant-breaking. But alſo to be the cauſe, & ground of the diuiſions, & ſchiſmes in his churches: by meanes whereof, his name was blaſphemed, the ſoules of the righteous greeued, the truth ſlaundered, the weake ſcandalized, & the wicked hardened in euil.

It is ſure [as ſome doe obſeruebbPareus in Rom: 14. ver: 13. pag. 469.] that a more greeuious puniſhment is reſerued for them which cauſe others to offend, then for they which doe ſuch things themſelves. Thus the ſerpent was puniſhed more then Eue, ſhe more then Adam: ſo lezebel felt heauier & deeper judgment then Ahab. To ſinne hath not ſo much perdition in it as to induce others to ſinne, ſo Chriſoſtome.ccPeccare non tantum in ſe per litionis habet quantum quod reliqia ad peccandum inducuntur. hom. 25 in Epiſt: ad Rom. in mor. ad locum.

Who is wiſe, that he may vnderſtand theſe things, & prudent that he may take knowledge of them: ffor the wayes of Jehouah are righteous, & the iuſt ſhall walke in them, but theddVVhen at the day of Iudgment it ſo…lbe laid to their charge that they hauehave giuen ſcandal, they vvill vviſh rather to hauehave been drovvned Parre on Rom: chap. 14. v. 13. p. 173. rebels ſhall fall in them.

SECTION 2.

THus [Reader] thou haſt ſeen the reaſons, why the Treatiſe was publiſhed: Now in the next place the Epiſtoler intreats thee, to take notiſe of two things: 1. That this practice of hearing vnlawfull miniſters, Is not againſt any article of ſayth, which is by the Church profeſſed whereof the author of this treatiſe was paſtor.

Anſwer 1. Nay ſtay there, that is not ſo, for in Article 31. of our profeſſion, (conſented vntounto by maiſter Robinſon eeIuſtification of Separat: pag: 123,) this thinge is abſolutelie condemned. We, ſpeakinge there of Antichriſtian Aſſemblies profeſſe, that the faythfull may not hauehave any ſpirituall cōmunion in their publick adminiſtrations. And for proofe thereof, theſe ſcriptures are alleagedffReu: 18. 3. 4. Hoſ: 4. 14. 15. 1 Cor: 10 14. 17 2 cro: 6. 14. 15. Son. 1. 6. 7.. But ſayth he in the ſame place, this is no act of communion. I anſwere, our Chriſtian prediceſſours ſo vnderſtood it, and ſo doe the faithfull generally to this day: beſides this new deuiſe wants, as truth ſo common ſence: for it is, as if one ſhould affirme, that he eates and drinkes, but partaketh not in the things he uſeth.ggHoccine credibile eſt, aut memorabile Teren. And: Act. 4. ſo. 1: …Acts 4.

But it may be he thinkes the following lines will helpe him. If hearing ſimplie were an act of communion, then eueryevery heretique, or Atheiſt, or whatſoeuer he were, that ſhould come into the church, ſhould hauehave communion, which if it were true, it were good that eueryevery p. 9Church that will auoyd Communion with prophane men to meete in priuate, and then ſhutt the doore, when their own companie is mett together, or elſe I cannot ſee,**Nevv you may, if you ſhutt … et your eyes againſt the lig… a Regula … eſt diſtinguere aliter omnia quae a ſo invicem Poſſum ſeperari. how they can auoyd communion with wicked men,

Anſw. It is a certane rule (as Logicians teach) thinges are really to be diſtinguiſhed, which in themſelues are to be ſeparated each from other. The ignorance of this diſtinction, is a maine cauſe (as I hauehave obſerued) of ſome mens erring in this point of hearing: ffor they thinke, (as the Piſtler here vnwiſelie writes) that if members of true Churches hauehave not communion with the vnbeleeuers which come vntounto their meetings: that then it will follow, that they may be preſent in falſe Churches in time of publick exerciſe, and yet hauehave no communion.Melano. l. 4. diſtinct. Syſtemat. theol. 1. c 4 P. 58.

To reply breifly: (for I purpoſe to ſpeake more largely of this in an other place) There is beſides Church communion, a communion in the ordinances of the Church: as in the ſtate it ſelfe, miniſterie, worſhip, Gouernment: Howſoeuer therfore a man be no member actually, of ſuch, or ſuch a body: And ſo in that reſpect (to ſpeake properly) he hath no Church communion: yet beeing there a worſhipper, he communicates in the actions don, I ſay whether they are good or euill.

The chriſtian Corinthians were ſeparated formally from the Heathen-ſtate, and conſtituted in a true Church-ſtate: notwithſtanding Paul ſayth,bb1 Cor. 10.1 Cor 10 that ſuch among them, as went vntounto Idol Temples, had there communion: as how? not Church communion, but they communicated in the euils there practiſed. They communicated asccComment. 1 Cor. 10. ver. 18. pag. 640.1 Cor 10:18 Pareus layth with idols, or as Ieromeddon the ſame place. phraſeth it, the participation of devils. To be ſhort according to Bezas eeciuſdem cultus ac ſacrificij ſunt conſcij, ſiue in eodem ſacri ficio conſortes, ac ſocij, ac ejus quaſivinculo in eadem religione cop… lati.interpretation, they were guilty of the ſame ſeruiſe & ſacrifice, or were companions and conſorts therein, and coupled themſelues (as it were) in the ſame religion.

To apply this to our point in controuerſie, If an Heretick Atheiſt, or whatſoeuer he be, come to our Churches, we acknowleidge he hath communion: to weet, in the ordinances: how be it no Church communion, that is, no communion in, or with the ſaints gathered into the faith and order of the Goſpel: ſo in gooing vntounto vnlawfull Aſſemblies, if a man be no member, his communion there, is not with the people in that ſtate, but in the humane inventions:Beza Anno… in 1. Cor. 10. 1, pag. 137.1 Cor 10:1 that is the Idol Church, wil-worſhip, falſe miniſterie, and other ſuch abominations: And this common reaſon ſheweth, for he that is not a member of a Corporation, may p. 10yet communicate, in the adminiſtrations thereof, howbeit (true it is (in, or with the body he doth it not.

We need not therfore ſhut our doores againſt any perſon, for there followes no daunger, by their comming vntounto vsus: …for howſoeuer [as I ſaid] they hauehave communion, yet not with vsus, but rather in the thinges practiſed with vsus. Now what can the Piſtler hence conclude? only thus: [vnleſſe he be Graculus inter muſas ‡] If I may doe a lawfull thinge, then I may doe an vnlawfull thinge: Jf a foreiner may pertake in the ciuil iuſtice of true magiſtrates, then he may ſo doe, in the ſinfull adminiſtrations of Rebels and Traitors. I wrong him not: for his reaſoning and this […] is all one in ſubſtance: If it be lawfull to communicate in a true Church,Omnia idem pului…, Lucian. with Chriſts miniſterie and worſhip; then a man may lawfully communicate in a falſe Church with Antichriſts miniſterie and worſhip. I could ſay more, but I am loth to diſcouer his nakednes too farre. But no maruaile when men leaue the way of truth if fooliſh and falſe thinges doe follow,

2. But admit this hearing were not againſt any article of our Churches? what is the note, that the Reader muſt then obſerue: Surelie vnleſſe the Epiſtoler would be noted for nonſence, we muſt needs conceiue, that he holds, as the PapiſtsffBellarm…de c Rom. po…: l. 4. 1. 4. Rhemiſt. n Luk. 18. ſect▪ 4▪Luke 18 doe: to wit, that the Church cannot erre: and therefore we muſt beleeue as the Church beleeues. But are you in good earneſt? wel, we will ſo take it, till we are better informed. In the meane time take you notiſe what the Lord ſaithggEſa: 8: 20, To the Law and to the Teſtimony: hhSerm,: de…em ….if they ſpeake not according to this word, it is becauſe there is no light in them,

Take notiſe alſo, what AuguſtinekkIuſt mart. cont: tryph… ſayth: we ought to beleeue a Church, but not in a Church, becauſe the Church is not God, but the houſe of God. To the like purpoſe others: Neither Paſtor, Councell,iiB: Bilſon. par 2. p. 266 or Angel, ought in point of faith to be receiued, I ſay not againſt, but without or beſides the ſcriptures. Theſe k are only ſafe. &llHilar: in pſa 86. to be credited▪ for humaine pra…pts they want weight:mmLactan: l 3. c 17. they bind not.nnId cont: Faiſt: l. 23. ego ſoli ſcripturae fido ſaid TheodoretooZ…nch. de Tripl. Epiſ. p▪ 103.. J giuegive truſt to the ſcripture alone. And ſome papiſts in words ſay no leſſe: as Thomas of Aquine, ppl 9 art. vlt.Abbas, qqDeelect cap, ſignificasti.pan… … Gerſon, rrIn locchi P…pper. Mech…inien….Picus Mirandula. ssQuaeſt …an Pa ſu…. con.Occam, ttDial. l. …. p. 1. c. 28.P. Pi…s the ſecond uuAbba… Veſperſ…n…is:? p. 443.and Others.

In concluſion then, ſeeing the hearing of vnlawfull Miniſters, is flat againſt ſcripture articles, (as we ha…e partly manifeſted, and God willing, more will doe) we … muſt … as Ierome▪ xxin Mat. 23Matt 23ſpeakes) p. 11it, though it ſhould in the meane time be iuſtified and practiſed by many Churches and people.

The ſecond thing, which he deſires may be noted is, that this hearing was not in the iudgement of the Church eſteemed as a thinge that might not be borne with all.

Anſw: 1: The doctrine of the Nicolaitans (which wasaaTrenan▪ l. 1▪ 27. Epiphanc. 1. Tom. 1. E… 3. 29. that adulterie and fornication were no ſinnes, and that men might communicate with the ſacrifices of Idolaters, in their idol temples) was not in the iudgment of the Churches at Pergamos, and Thyatira eſteemed as a thing that might not be borne withall: was the ſame therfore good? indeed ſuch a concluſion we muſt either here gather from his wordes: or conclude he knew not well what he wrote.

2. To the iudgement of that Church, when they wrote to London: I may oppoſe their former and better iudgment: ffor with reverence to the Phraſe, from the beginning this was not ſoe: ffor in their conſtitution, and many yeares after, they held**Remember therfore from vvh…nce thou art fallen, and repent, and doe the firſt vvorkes. Reu. 2. 5.Rev 2:5 hearing of vnlawfull Miniſters a very vnlawful practiſe.

And ſo much appeares in ſundry paſſages Publiſhed to the world by the Paſtor himſelfe. And for the Readers better ſatiſfaction, I thinke it not amiſſe to ſert downe their Owne words,

ThoſebbMunumiſſion to a manuduction pag. 5. who partake in the worke of Preaching of one ſent by the Bp: DOE PARTAKE IN WHAT LYETH JN THEM IN THE AVTHORITY OF THE SENDER. Againe The authorite of Miniſters in their Pariſhionall Churches,c Page. 4. may not be, by Gods people partaken with, no not in actions otherwiſe Lawfull, vnderunder the paines of Babilons Plagues. Againe in another booke ddReligious Communion pag. 20.thus they write: Let all them that feare God, conſider, that when they come to worſhip in the Pariſh Aſſemblyes, they joyne themſelues where God hath not joyned them, and doe acknowledge that ſocietie for the Church of God, and communion of ſaints, which he hath not ſanctifyed for that purpoſe, and in ſaying ourfather with them, they acknowledge them, for the children of God, who in the perſwation of their conſciences are of their father the divel. And in the ſame booke a little after: eepag. 32.Their very adminiſtrations by vnlawfull calling, are the ſinnes, and ſo to PARTAKE WITH THEM IN THEIR ADMINISTRATIONS, IS TO PARTAKE WITH THEM IN THEIR SINNES: contrary to. Timot. 5. 22. Reu. 14. 4. In their anſwere to, Maiſter Barnerds booke, thus they p. 12write largeſie of this point. ffJuſtification of Separat: pag. 78. 79. 80. …e alſo page 17. 162. 276. 433.Some of which, is as followeth.

But the thing which moſt grieves Mr. B▪ and at which he hath greateſt indignation Pap. 62. is, that we will not heare his ſermons though he preach nothing but the true word of God. And ſo he deſires to heare of vsus, where the hearing of the true word of God onelyonly preached is ſinn and forbidden by Chriſt, or the Prophets or Apoſtles.

For anſwer hereof I would know first whether Mr. B. ſpeaking here and in many other places, of the true Word of God, do means that God hath a true word and a falſe word, or rather bewray not an accuſing conſcience, that they in England have not the true word truely taught, that is, in a true office of Miniſtery?

Now for the demaund (referring the reader for more full ſatiſfaction to that which hath bene publiſhed at large by others) I do anſwer, that as it was vnlawfull to**N…mb. 16. 2. C…. 26. 1 King. 12.1 Kgs 12 communicate with Corah or with vzziah though they offered true ſacrifices, ſo IS IT VNLAWFVL▪ TO COMMƲNICATE WITH ADEVISED MINSTERY, WHAT TRƲTH SOEVER IS TAVGHT IN IT.

Secondly the Lord hath promiſed no bleſſing to his word but in his owe ordinance, though by his ſuperaboundand mercy he oft tymes vouchſafe that which no man can chalendg by any ordinary promiſe

Thirdly * no man may partake in other mens ſinns, …m. 5. 12.but eueryevery Ministery eyther deviſed or vſurped is the ſinn of him which exerciſeth it.Rev. 18. 4.Rev 18:4 And as no good ſubject would aſſist or communicate with any perſon in the administration of civil Justice to the Kings ſubjects, (no not though he administred the ſame never ſo equally and indifferrently) except the ſame perſon had commiſſion from the King ſo to do: ſo neyther ought the ſubjects of the kingdome of Christ to partake with any perſon whomſoever in the diſpenſation of any ſpirituall thing: (though in it ſelf never ſo holy) withot ſufficient warrant and commiſſion from the moſt abſolute and ſovereigne King of his Church Chriſt Ieſus. And where Mr. B. ſpeaks of hearing the true word of God only preached, he intimates therin, that if we would heare him preach it would ſatiſfy him well▪ p. 13and ſo teacheth vsus with himſelfe and others to make a ſchiſme in the Church, in vſing one ordinance and not an other.

It is all one whether a man communicate with the miniſter in his pulpit or with the Chauncelor in his conſiſtory, both of them minister by the ſame power of the Biſhop. The Chauncelor may iudge justly, & who knowes whither or no the Miniſter will teach truely? And if he doe not, but ſpeak the viſion of his owne heart, what remedy hath the Church, or what can they that hear him do? May they rebuke him openly according to his ſin, and ſo bring him to repentance? or muſt they not beare his errors yea his hereſyes alſo during the pleaſure of the Biſhops, even their Lord, & his?

And would you Mr. B. be content your people ſhould heare a maſſe-Priest or Jeſuite, though he profeſſed as loud as you do, that he would teach the true word of God? And think not ſcorne of the match, for you hauehave the ſelfe ſame office with a maſſe Preiſt though refyned. If he be ordayned by a Biſhop (though it be the Biſhop of Rome) he may miniſter in any Church of England by vertue of that ordination. Andbeſides maſſe-Preiſts preach ſome and thoſe the mayne truthes, and the Miniſters in England neither do nor dare preach all, no nor ſome which (it may be) the others do.

Is it not better then for the ſervants of the L. Ieſus to exerciſe and aedify themſelves according to the model of grace receaved, though in weaker meaſure, then to be ſo ſimple as to come to your feaſts, though you cry never ſo loud vntounto them, thinking that becauſe your ſtoln waters are ſweet, and your hidden bread pleaſant, that they have no power to paſſe by, but muſt needs become your gueſts?

And here (to uſe the Piſtlers words,) it is wel to be marked by the Reader, how the Church when theſe thinges were written, enioyed as a Paſtor, ſo a iudicious Ruling Elder too, and their company greater by farre then it was, when that letter was framed.

Such as write of the Government of Common-wealths doe hold it for a rule, that to redreſſe abuſes in any State, a better Way cannot be taken, then to hauehave thinges brought to their firſt inſtitution. Hence it is, that the Venetians, hauehave a ſupreame Magiſtracie, which they call A Syndicate that once in a few yeares, … ſurvey… all the Offices and dignities in their p. 14wealth that ſo all things may continue and ſtand entyre, according to the rules and precepts of their firſt Conſtitutions and Ordinances.

If the Piſtler had deſired the common good of that Church: he would hauehave ſought, to hauehave had thinges reduced to their primitiue Originall, and good beginning: and not Mention as he doth, their depriuations, declinations, departures**ſer…en… qualitas vi…i dignoſcitur.: as a rule for all Poſterity to meaſure their faith and actions by. It is an infallible maxime, (as D: Vſher ggDe Chriſtianor Eccl. ſucceſs. et ſtat… cap. 1. pag. 19.and other obſerue out of Tertullian hhId verum quodcunque primum. id adultorum quod cunque poſterius.) whatſoeuer is firſt, that is trueſt, and what comes after is adulterate. The firſt in any kind, or ſort of thinges is trueſt and beſt: ſo Feild.

3. But admitt there were many that held this hearing lawfull, and ſoo hauehave don along time, what of this; is the thing he better for that? in no wi…e: For not cuſtome or multitudes muſt be followed, but the truth of Gods word. Walke ye not in the ſtatutes of your fathers, I. Of the Church. l. 2. c. 5. p. 49.neither Obſerue their iudgments, nor defi…e your ſelues with their idols kkEzech. 20.Ezek 20The like precept we hauehave, in 3: …ch: 11. Follow not that which is euil, but that which is good.

Cyprian and others of the Fathers (as they are called) ſpeake wel to this purpoſe: we mustllNon debemus attende…e quid alius ante nos f…cerit aut faciendum putauerit ſed quid ante omnes eſt Chriſtus prior fecerit. Cyp… Epiſt. 63. not regard what others did be fore vsus, or thought fitt to be don, but what Christ did who was before all. We Mustmmnon eſt de conſuetudene praeſcribendum ſed ratione vin cendum. Epiſt. 74. not preſcribe vponupon custome, but perſwade by reaſon. WhatſoeuernnTertullian lib de vi…g: ſauoreth against the truth, it is hereſie be the practice thereof, neuer ſo ancient. Non illa tantum in religione fugienda, quae Verbo dei adverſantur: ſed ea etiam quae verbo dei, non ſunt praeſcripta, etiamſi ab acutiſſimis hominibus excogitata, a doctiſſimis defenſa, et diuturna conſu etudine recepta. Not only in religion muſt we auoyd all thinges contrary to the word of God; but alſo whatſoeuer is not therein preſcribed:o Polanus Comment: in Ezec: 20 pag: 481. yea howbeit the ſame ſhould be deuiſed by the acutest men, defended by the moſt learned, and receiued by long cuſtome.

Then we ſerue God,p. Fox Act. and mon: p. 18 29. when in his worſhip, we follow his word, and not mans fantaſies, cuſtome, multitude &c: ſo Bradford the martyr.

Thus we hauehave (according to his intreatie) taken a vew of his p. 15two thinges, the which are ſo vaine and frivelous, as indeed deſerued no anſwere. yet leaſt any of that faction ſhould thinke we paſſed them over without any examintion, becauſe we feared the weight and force thereof: I hauehave breiflie replyed: and deſire the humble and godly Reader, to con…ider what both hauehave written.

SECTION: 3.

…The Epiſtoler hauing ended his two obſeruations, prepareth now himſelfe in the next place (in earneſt) for diſputation**Dulce bell… in expertis.: And firſt of all, (after ſome ſpitefull words caſt on his oppoſites,) like Thraſo in Terence (who thought himſelfe a none-ſuch, o. Metuebant omnes iam me. in Eunuch:and thereupon boaſtingly prayſeth himſelfe: They are all affraid of me, Act: 3. ſc. 1.as if he had don ſome great pe…ce… of ſeruice,) he daringlie prouokes who **Et calum territat armis. Virg. in Aeneid:will to reply, if their stomacks ſerue. And becauſe he will ſpeake (omiſſis nugis) to the purpoſe indeed. He vndertakes to handle the point in controverſie methodicallie: that is, to propound firſt his oppoſites obiections. And afterwards to giuegive ſome anſwere to them,

Firſt (ſayth he) they obiect & ſay that we hould the Church of England to be a falſe Church, and the miniſters thereof to be Antichristian, and yet we goe thither to worſhip, and this ſay they is abſurd.

His anſwere hereto is: Before wee anſwere directlie to this obiection, we ſhall intreat the Reader, and themſelues to conſider of what followes.

Anſw: we read of one Doria the Admiral of Genua, that fighting at ſea againſt the Saraſens, he fetched his courſe ſo farre about to gaine the wind, that he could neuer come to ſtrike a blow before the battle was ended. The Epiſt: is here fallen into ſuch a wild and wandring courſe, for ſeeking to get ſome advantage by windy wordes, he goes quite away from the thing which he propounded, and comes not againe to ſpeake either much or little of it.

But no maruaile our new maiſter **It ſeemes the Piſt: is one of Antontes ſcholers mentioned in Tullie, vvho vviſheth men if they be trobled about a hard queſtion to ſay nothing to it.hath ſhewed vsus ſuch a trick:Cic, de orat, l. 2, the truth is (as oneaaD. Couel, Church Gouerment. c, 1, p▪ 5, ſpeakes in the like caſe) he made the obiection ſtronger then he was able to anſwere: Better therfore to be ſilent then light a candle to diſcouer his owne nakednes.

p. 16But it may be he, or others of that ſide, wilbe the more willing to reply, if they ſhall ſe this argument laid downe in ſome better forme. If that will doe it, we will doe our beſt to make way for them. Thus then we reaſon.

To worſhip God in any other way or manner, then he hath in his word preſcribed, is vnlawfull:

But to heare Antichristian Miniſters in falſe Churches, is to worſhip God in a way and manner which he hath not preſcribed:

Therefore it is a ſinne to doe it.

The maior no man dares deny I aſſure my ſelfe: For it is manifeſt and certane by the whole courſe of the ſcriptures. Deu: 12. 8. Leuit. 10. 20. pſa: 119: 133: Mic. 7. 18: Hoſ: 9. 15 Ihon 4. 23. mat. 15. 3. 4. Coloſ 2, 8. 2 Ioh. 16. 17.

Moreouer all ſorts and ſects of writers acknowledge this For a truth. ZanchybbExplicat: in Coloſs: 2… 23. pag. …19. To…. 4, ſaith, Deus et ſolus vult coli, et eo ſolo cultu, quem ipſe inſtituit. God wil be worſhipped alone, and with that worſhip alone, which he himſelfe hath appointed. So writes Luther,ccComment. in Galat. Cap. 6. pag, 871. Omnis talis religio, qua colitur deus ſine verbo et mandato eius, idolatria eſt, et quo ea eſt ſanctior et ſpiritualior in ſpeciem, hoc pernicior et p…ſtilentior eſt.

All ſuch religion wherein God is worſhipped without his word & precept, it is idolatrie, and the more holy and ſpirituall the ſame is in ſhew, the more daungerous & pernitious it is.

Brentius **Qui…unque cultus … tam aut verbum … ta tum ab…ſt, … vt major…m ab…t … …pſi … cap. …, …0, 2▪a man of rare learning among the followers of Luther ſayth; whatſoeuer worſhip is ſett vp without the commaundement or word of God, it is ſo farre from beeing acceptable to him, that a greater abomination thou canſt not put upon him. the like ſaith Chriſoſtome Etenim quod fit iuxta dei volūtatem quamvis videatur improbum eſſ…, tamen omnino deo gratum est, et accceptum: contra, Quod fit praeter dei voluntatem, quanquam exiſtimatur … deo, tamen eſt omnium peſſimum et iniquiſſimum. Of a truth that which is … according to the will of God, although it ſeeme to be wicked, yet it is altogether pleaſant & acceptable …o him:… Contrariwiſe whatſoeuer is don beſides the will of God, p. 17& otherwiſe then he will hauehave it don: though it be eſteemed as a thing acceptable to him, yet it is of all other the worſt and moſt wicked.

Famous Iunius eeElection …n Ion: cap. 3. …. 48.writes ſo too, God will not be worſhipped either for matter or manner, but in his owne way. And this is the iudgment of Calvin, ffInſtit. l 4. c. 10 Sect. 30.Chemnitius, ggExam. par. 1 pag. 82.Cha…ſanio, hhLoc. comm. pag 328Aretius, iiExam Theol. pag. 42▪Piſcator, kkIn deu. 12▪ Obſerv. 4.Keckerman, llSyſtem. The…l. pag. 401Trelca…ius, mmLoc. comm. pag. 10▪D. Fu…ke, nnRefutat. of Raſtel. pa. 339D. Androwes: ooCatach: upon the ſecond comt:B. Jewell, ppRepl. to Hard. Art. 1. diviſ. 29. pag. 604and others.

Touching the minor or ſecond part, I may ſpare all proofes, and ſend them to their own conſciences, For confirmation and conuiction.

For: 1: That this hearinge is a worſhip, the ſame is manifeſt and cleare to any that hauehave an eye of reaſon, and any light of religion ſhining in them: None to my knowledge (ſaving a poopiſh Paraſite qqHovvſon. Serm …n Pſal. 118. pag. 78Ps 118or two) euer held otherwiſe, And they by men of better iudgmentrrDr. La…ton▪ in Syons Plea▪ p. 327. hauehave been ſharpely blamed for it.

Againe, that this worſhip is don in a way and manner which the Lord neuer appointed, it is as cleare as the ſunne at noone day, & cannot with any modeſt face be denyed.

The Treatiſer **Pag. 37▪confeſſeth that it is no perticular Ordinance left by Chriſt: marke that: and, in another place,ssIuſtificat▪ Separat p. 93, 94 a falſe Church, ſayth he, is a real and ſubſtantial idol.

Alſo ttRe…giour cō munion. p. 37Every ſuch Government & miniſtery, as is not commaunded by God and Chriſt, is an idol forbidden in the ſecond commaundement: & all ſubiection to it, is a bowing downe to an idol.

To compare now all this, firſt with the ſcriptures: Is the Church an idol, Abridgement p. …3the miniſtery an idol, the Government an idol &c. In the words then of the Prophet: uuHoſ. 14, …Hos 14what hauehave we doe any more with idols? what agreement hath the Temple of God with idols … xx2 Cor. 6▪ 142 Cor 6:14For we are the Temple of the living God? Is it not ſaid: Little children keepe your ſelues from idoles. Againe, my dearelie Beloued flee from idolatrie. But how? mente et corpore: (ſaith Pareus,) aaComment▪ in 1 Cor. 10, ver. 14. pag. 6141 Cor 10:14in mind & body, that is the worſhip & reverence of Idols: And to flee idolatrie, is not only to abſteane from it, but with all the heart to auoyd it, as an abominable thinge & a moſt hurtfull plague.

Againe, a little after on the ſame place, whoſoever … a chriſtian, it is neceſsarie that he be carefull, to keepe himſelfe from all idolatriè, & the occaſions, kinds, and inſtruments thereof: ſo he.

2. To compare their former poſitions, with the doctrines taugh… vsus by learned men. Iunius bbSacrifica…ur autem da… nibus fi a…a … co aut …tù & modo ſacrificatur, quam praſcrip…it dominus.in his notes vponupon Leuit: 17▪ 17▪ p. 18ſayth thus, men ſacrifice to divels, if they ſacrifice either in any other place or after other rite or manner, then the Lord hath preſcribed.

B: BabingtonccComfortable notes upon Levit. 17. pag. 130.Lev 17 writing on theſe words, what manſoeuer there be of the houſe of Iſrael, that killeth on oxe, &c. And bringeth it not to the doore of the Tabernable, &c. ſayth: Hereby was ſignifyed that only in the Church, by fayth in the cheife high prieſt Chriſt Ieſus, ſacrifice and ſeruice accepted of God, is, and can be offered and don, and no where elſe. And of this iudgment was ddDeu. 12, p. 178Deut 12Luther, Brentius, eeExegiſ. in Ioh: 4.Calvin, & others.ffLevit. 17.Lev 17

Touching the high places **1 Kin. 12. 31 2 King. 12. 3 2 King. 4. 14 Ier. 1…. 5. Eze. 6. 2 and 6. 251 Kgs 12:312 Kgs 12:32 Kgs 4:14Jer 1:5Ezek 6:2Ezek 6:25of which we read often in ſcripture. The time was when it was lawfull to offer ſacrifices vponupon them, So writes Auguſtine ggQua…ſt. 36. in lib. Iudg., Druſius hhAd diffic…l. loc. Deu. 12. cap. 68. pag. 571.Deut 12, Rivetus iiComment. in Hoſ. 4. 13. pag. 148.Hos 4:13, and others. And ſo much our Learned Ainſworth in his Annotations vponupon Leuit: 17. 5. obſerueth out of the Hebrew Rabbins. Before the Tabernacle was ſett vp, the high places were lawfull, & the ſeruice was by the firſt borne: after the Tabernacle was erected, the high places were vnlawfull and the ſeruice (was performed) by the prieſts. Thalmud: Bab: in zebachim: chapt. 14.

Beſides the Fathers of old, many hundred yeares there worſhipped kkBrint. Amos: c. 7. pag. 43.almighty God, in ſpirit and truth. Notwithſtanding it was Iſraels great ſinne ſo to doellAmos 7. 9▪Amos 7:9. And the reaſon hereof is laid downe by Zanchie mmComment. in Hoſ. 4. 13. pag. 81.Hos 4:13. Quia verba non habebant, cur debere hoc facere, they had no divine precept for it: and wanting that, idcirco fornicabantur, ſayth Mercer nnComment. in Hoſ. 4. 13. pag. 42.Hos 4:13: they committed therefore Fornication. Here alſo it muſt be noted, that in theſe places they worſhipped not idolsooCalvin. pralect. in Hoſ. 4.Hos 4 but the true God,**Deum quidem col…bant pa…um▪ ſed …li…i quam loco quem …legerat: Iunius Ann…t. in 1 King. 12. v. 4.1 Kgs 12:4 & the ſacrifices which they there offered, were according to the law,pp1. 50 their intention and meaning goodqqLavaterus in Ioſh: c. 22. …om. 59. p. 70▪: and the reaſon why they made choyſe of them, was out of deuotion, and for imitation ſake of the Patriarchs rrAl…ed. prae…: 2. p. 370. cognit. …eol, & quaſi caelo propriora ssBrentius Comment. in Amo: 7. p▪ 42 O…mp. in Hoſ. 4. 13.Hos 4:13, as beeing neerer to Heauen and the like.

Now if it were a fault in them, to cary the oblations vnderunder the law, to a place (howbeit ſomtimes lawfull, and where their godlie anceſtors had before trulie worſhipped) becauſe they had no commaundement ſo to doe: Then certainlie more in fault are thoſe, which (with the worſhip of the Goſple) goe, where it was neuer lawfull publicklie to ſerue God, and where their forefathers neuer to this day, rightlie ſerved him: I meane to an idol-Church, and there offer vp ſpirituall ſacrifices, in, by, and with an idol-miniſterie: I ſay there beeing in the word of God no one p. 19precept for it.

If the Piſtler can ſhew vsus, what coulorably can be ſayd, for the iuſtification of this latter: which the old idolatrous Iewes, could not ſay as wel, or rather better in the defence of the former.

Et eris mihi magnus Apollo.

In concluſion I ſhall deſire every chriſtian heart, vntounto whome the Lord hath given wiſdome, to conſider ſeriouſly of theſe things. If the Prophet, only for his ciuil eating in a place prohibited, felt ſo ſore and greevious a puniſhment: ah▪ what iudgements then, may all ſuch iuſtlie exſpect, who dare eat ſpirituallie any where, againſt the expreſſe commaundement of God.

Was the Lord ſo zealous For the ordinances of the old law, to hauehave his people obſerue as the ſubſtance, ſo euerie circumſtance: whether it reſpected the place, the perſon, the time, or any other rite: and ſhall we thinke that now he cares not, whether men be preciſe & ſtrict in dooing all the particulars belonging to the worſhip of the new Teſtament.

Ought we not to beleeue, that as God hath commaunded vsus to worſhipp him, that is, to heare his word, receive the ſacraments & to vſe other his ordinances, ſo he hath alſo called, and ſeparated vntounto himſelf a Church, a communion of ſaints and holie ones, in, and amongſt whome, thoſe holy things are to be vſed: And that we are to looke in what fellowſhip and communion we receive the holie thinges of God as what the thinges are, we doe receive. In a word ought we not to be perſwaded that as the legal ſacrifices out of the Tabernacle or Temple, within whoſe circle they were preſcribed by the mouth of God, were vnlawfullie offered: ſo all the ordinances and exerciſes of the Church vnderunder the Goſpel, don out of a true conſtituted Church, are altogether and euerie way ſinfull.

VntoUnto the place which the Lord your God ſhall chuſe out of all your tribes,Deu. 12. 5. 6. 7. 8.Deut 12:5Deut 12:6Deut 12:7Deut 12:8 to put his Name there, euen vntounto his habitation ſhall ye ſeeke, and thither thou ſhalt come. And thither ye ſhall bring your burnt-offrings, and your ſacrifices, and your tithes, and heaue offrings of your hand, and your vowes, and your free-will offerings, and the firſtlings of your heards and of your flockes. And there ſhall ye eate before the Lord your God, and ye ſhall reioyce in all that you put your hand vntounto, ye and your houſholds, wherein the Lord thy God hath bleſſed thee. Ye ſhall not doe eueryevery man whatſoever is right in his owne eyes.

p. 20But ſeeing the Epist…ler hath ſomething to ſay, we will now giuegive him audi…nce: the ſumme of his long diſcourſe is this.

A Church may be ſaid to be falſe in diverſe reſpects, as first in reſpect of outward order, when the ſame is not gathered according to the rule of Christ.

2. In reſpect of faith and doctrine. To the latter we will not counſell any man to goe: but onelie the other. Howbeit he confeſſeth this la…ter falſe & Antichrictian.

Anſw:Eu ipides. 1: Pantheus in the poet * thought he ſaw two ſunnes in the firmament, when there was indeed but one: it was the diſtraction in his head, that made him ſo to thinke. I will not ſay, that the Piſt: when he wrote this was in ſuch a diſtemperature; But this I am ſure of, their conceptions are both alike: For where (I pray you) doe yo… read in the ſcriptures, of two kindes of Antichriſtian Churches; ſpeake out man? ſhewe vsus the place, the Chapter, the verſe: ingenious dealing requires it: As for your bare ſaying, it is farre from proofe: To affirme or denie (according to Ariſtotle aaPropter noſtrurm affirmare, vel negare, nihil in re ſequitur. De …nterp lib. 1. c. 6) is of no conſequence. That ſome falſe Churches in ſome thinges may be leſſe: corrupt then others, this is poſſible; Notwithſtanding if we conſider in what reſpect they are both falſe, that is, the ground & cauſe of their Antichriſtiſme, or falſenes, heere we ſhall ſee no difference at all; Noe two reſpects as the vnaduiſed man affirmeth.

For example, one harlott may committ more whoredome then another: notwithſtanding as they are harlots both, ſo it is of one and the ſame ca…ſe: namelie Fornication. The like may be ſpoken of other thinges, whether Animals, vigetals, minerals: howſoeuer in goodneſſe or badnes they may differ, I meane, as it reſpects degree,e Lib▪ …. de prop neceſſ c. 8 meaſure, quantitie, &c. yet in the Genus or kind they are one, and no otherwiſe to be conſidered. To this purpoſe writes A…uinas bbAquinas 1 Sent. diſt. 9, Scotus ccSuper predicabili… Qua…t. 18▪, Porphirius ddCap. 2. Sect. 32., Zarabel Keckerman, ffSyſtemat. Log. l. …, c. 3.and others.

Beſides if that be true in the Philoſopher: ggOppoſita ſunt ſinul in natura Ariſt. Tropic. l. 6, …num eſt, cutus contrarium eſt m… lum. R…ctor. l. ….oppoſite thinges. in nature are alike. Againe, this is good whoſe contrarie is euil: it muſt needs follow, vnleſſe the Piſt: be a falſe Teacher, that as ſome Churches are viſiblie true, in reſpect of faith and order: ſo others may be true too, hauing onlie outward… order albeit the members thereof hauehave no faith at all. The p. 21which aſtertion is not to be anſwered, but abhorred.

2. The ten Tribes which departed from the Lord, from his Temple, ſacrifices, Preiſts, alter, and other holie ſignes of his preſence at Ieruſalem: from that time, and ſtill after, were not Gods Church and people: ſo the ſcriptures ſhew: Hoſ: 2, 2, 2 Chro: 15. 3. Ier: 3. 8, Hoſ. 13. 1. Amo: 9. 7. This beeing ſoe, I would gladlie know of the Piſt: in which of his two reſpects they were a falſe Church? I take it he will ſay the latter: not only in reſpect of outward order, but likewiſe in reſpect of fayth, and doctrine.

If he grant this, as needes he muſt (vnleſſe he hauehave their ſpirit, whome the Apoſtlehh1 Pet. 2, 101 Pet 2:10 termeth foreign proſumptuous and ſelfe-willed) note then the conſequence: as his reſpects are fooliſh, ſo the Church he pleads for hearing in, is falſe in both his two reſpects. The reaſon is; becauſe the Iſraelites when they worſhipped at Dan and Bethel, were not in reſpect of faith and doctrine (to vſe his termes) more corrupt then the other now is.

And becauſe he vndertakes nudo capite bare-faced and bouldlie to defend Antichriſts cauſe: we ſhall exſpect in his next Piſtle-making ſome thing from him, which hitherto no man hath attempted: that is, to anſwere M^r. Ainſworth: iiI…roboam… … pology in his Arrovv againſt idolatry.and the non-conformiſts kkCourſe of Conformity▪ p. 161, 162who affirme that the Apoſtate Jewes could juſtifie their way and courſe of religion: as well if not better, then the other. In ſhort therefore, if he can ſhew vsus what eſſentiall truths his diſordered Church retaineth, or groſſe errours reiecteth, wherein we cannot manifeſt that the other went as farre, For my part I will freelie confeſſe my errour, in beeing a long time perſwaded omnia ſimilia that they are both alike, & one no better then the other.

3. Are the Lords ordinances with the Piſt: only matter of order? What is the Church of Chriſt, his miniſterie, the right adminiſtrations of the Sacraments & Cenſures, no points of fayth: oh fearefull ſaying. Not only is there wrong here don to the ſcriptures, but alſo to many worthy Chriſtians: For were this true, they hauehave ſunne in vaine, their ſuffrings hauehave been invaine: I meane, our prediceſſors, and others, who hauehave ſuffered joyfullie the ſpoyling of their goods, ſpilling of their blood, &c. I ſay for this, which according to his writing is no point of faith and doctrine.

But we need not wonder, that Gods houſe and his Ordinances are thus ſlighted of him? doe not all adulterers after they hauehave p. 22ſett their vncleane affections on ſtrangers, thinke meanlie of their own wiues, diſgrace them what they can: ſo doe Idolaters, &c.

Now I doe not know (this gentleman excluded) one man that hath affirmed, that the whole outward worſhipp of God to be no point of faith. Cartwright ſpeaking of this, termes it the ſubſtance of the GoſpelkkT. C. l. 1, pag. 48 Pag. 26 And in the ſame anſwere to Whitgyfe he writes thus: You ſay that in matters of faith and neceſsarie to ſaluation it holdeth, which thinges you oppoſe afterwards and ſett againſt matters of ceremonies, orders, diſcipline, and Government: as though matters of diſcipline, and kind of government, were not matters neceſſarie to ſaluation, and of faith. The caſe which you put whether the Biſhop of Rome be head of the Church, is a matter that concerneth the Government & kind of Government of the Church, aud the ſame is a matter that toucheth faith, and that standeth vponupon our ſaluation. Excommunication and other cenſures of the Church, which are fore-runners vntounto excommunication, are matters of diſcipline, and the ſame are alſo of Faith and Saluation. The ſacraments of the Lord his Supper, and of Baptiſme are ceremonies, and are matters of Faith, and neceſſarie to ſalvation.

So Fenner llDifence of Eccleſ. diſcipl. pag. 33, certaine points of diſcipline, are of neceſſitie to ſalvation, in ſuch abſolute degree of neceſſitie, as is of any ordinarie outward meanes. Of which ſore is the ministerie of the word, and of the ſacraments, and of the cenſures of the Church.

Others of the Non-conformiſts. I could alleidge which ſay the ſame, as ParkermmDe pol. Eccleſ. l. 1, c. 11, pa. 30Sir 50:1, TraverſennNeceſsitie of diſcip. p. 21., VdalooDemonſt. diſcipl. pref., BainesppDioceſ. Trial. pa. 50., BatesqqPa. 60 Yea and Conformiſts too; as BilſonrrPerpet: Govern. ch. 1, p. 3, WhitgyftssTreat. 2, c. 1, diviſ. 2. pa. 80, SutcliftttC…t. Bez. c. 2 p. 32, LoeuuCompl. of the Church p. 60. Adde to theſe ScultingiusxxHierar. Anacr. l. 9. p. 1 the Papiſt. Who cals Eccleſiaſticall Politie, the ſoule, joynts, and ſynews of the Church.

Beſides howſoever the Piſt: puts out the whole externall worſhip of God, from beeing points of faith, yet the Reformed Churches in France yyArt. 25and the Low cuntries zzArt. 30doe put this in, as an article of their faith. To be ſhort, that which he cals order, is in the Treatiſers aaIuſtif. ſepar: p. 348opinion, abſolutely neceſſarie to the Church, an eſsentiall propertie. And as D. AmesbbDe conſc: l. 4 c 24. p. 214 ſaith, it cannot be a true Church that wants it. For by this, the parts and members thereof are knit together. And this is true, as in divinitie, ſo in Philoſophie. For Forme (according to Ariſtotle cc3 Phiſ: 3, 5) foreign is the reaſon p. 23of the eſsence. Another: Euerie thing is ſenceable by matter and intelligible by forme.ddAverr: in 1. de Calo. As thinges by the light are decerned: ſo we vnderſtand the matter by its formeeeBoeth. de vnit.. It is a knowne Tenent. Forme guies to things, being, diſtinction and operation. So Keckerman ffSyſt. Theol. l. 1. c. 17. p. 161, Timpler ggMetaph; l. 3, c. 2. Pr…bl. 71, 72., C…rlm hhC. 6, pag. 35, Scallger iiEx. 6, S. 3.Exod 6, and others.

4. Seeing he holds it vnlawfull, to goe vntounto any Church which is falſe in reſpect of order and doctrine: it muſt needs follow, that all Antichriſtian Aſſemblies are to be wholy left, becauſe they are falſe in both, theſe reſpects.

And touching the Church of England here pleaded for, what notorious errours and abuſes, ſhe mainteaneth and practiſeth, may be ſeen in her Convocation-Canons, viſitations, Articles, the Engliſh maſse booke, their manner of making of Biſhops, Prieſts, and Deacons. To let paſſe the many ſcoores, of heatheniſh, Iewiſh, and poopiſh ſuperſtitions, which the Nonconformiſts **See Souldier of Barvvick. Table.hauehave in printed bookes branded her for.

And that the meaſure of her iniquitie,Syons pleà. may come to a ſpeedie fulnes.Admonitions to the Parliament Altar of Damaſcus, and other of their bookes. Let the Reader obſerue, the multitude of groſſe errours, which ſhe hath added latelie to the former: And theſe not onelie in printed bookes, the high commiſſion & ſermons in the court, city, vniverſity, & cuntry averred, but alſo allowed them by publick authority: among ſundry other. Romiſh erronious poſitions theſe.ppSec Chovvne, Reeve, Pocklinton, Heylen, B. VVhite, B. Mountagùe, Shelford, P…imeroſe, Laurence, Studly, Coale from the Altar, Biſhcp VVren, & other Prelates their viſitation Articles.

The Church of Rome is a true Church: That ſhe hath neuer erred in fundamentals, no not in the worſe times; That perſonal ſucceſſion of Biſhops is requiſite and eſſential to make a true Church; That the Archbiſhops and Biſhops of England deriue their lineal ſucceſsions and Epiſcopal dignitie from St. Peters Chaire, and the verie Sea of Rome, and that we ſhould not acknowleidge them for Biſhops in caſe they either did not, or could not doe ſoe. That the Pope of Rome or papacy is not the Antichriſt, nor Antichriſt yet come, or reuealed; That Crucifixes and Images in Churches are lawfull, and neceſſarie comlie ornaments; That Chriſt is really preſent vponupon earth on the high Altar and Communion table; That Communion tables are Altars; Miniſters of the Goſpel, Priects ſerving at the Altar, the Sacrament of the Lords ſupper, the Sacrament of the Altar, and may yea ought ſo to be phraſed, That men ought to bow to p. 24Altars & Communion-tables, and to place & rayle them in Altarwiſe at the eaſt end of the Church, and come up to them, and receiue when there is a Sacrament, and that Miniſters muſt read their ſecond ſeruiſe at them when there is none. That auricular confeſſion to a Preiſt and abſolution are very fitting and neceſſarie; That the Lords day is no Sabbath; That it is lewiſh to call it or keepe it as a Sabbath; That it is not of divine, but humaine inſtitution, not with in the morality of the 4. commaundement; That two howres only of it, is to be ſanctified, not the whole day; That Moriſes, dauncing, ſports and pastimes (yea labours of mens calling, not ſpeciallie prohibited by …: …maine lawes, even out of caſes of neceſſitie) are lawfull on it. That men may fall totally & finally from Grace; That they hauehave freewill, and may exactly fulfill the Law of God if they pleaſe themſelves; That men are juſtified by workes, yea by charitie, and not by faith alone; That men are elected from the foreſight of faith and workes, and reprobated only out of the foreſight of their ſinnes; That there is a vniverſall grace given to all men whereby they may be ſaued if they will; That Christ died alike for all men whatſoeuer; That preaching is an extraordinary thing**VVelfare the Biſhops vvho are true to their ground, for it is an extraordinary thing vvith them to proach. only for extraordinary times, and belonging to none but extraordinary men; That one Sermon in a month is enough, and better then two a day; That reading is properly preaching; That Archbiſhops & Biſhops Epiſcopall juriſdiction and degree aboue other Miniſters is jure divino; That the Miniſters know more then the Lay-people, the Biſhops more then the Miniſters, the Archbiſhops more then the Biſhops; And therefore what ever the Miniſters ſhall teach or preſcribe the people, what ever the Biſhops, the Miniſters & people, what ever the Archbiſhops, the Biſhops, Mininisters & people too, are bound to beleeve & obey without further queſtion or diſpute; That the Popes Lawes, Decrees, & Canon Lawes are ſtill in force, & our Church ought to be governed by them, & our Eccleſiaſticall Courts proceed lecally according to them; That Biſhops have power to make & publiſh Articles, Canons, Injunctions, Oathes, Rites, Ceremonies, in their owne names & rights, and to enforce both Miniſters & people to obey them; That they may ſilence, ſuſpend & excommunicate, (yea deprive & impriſon) Ministers at their p. 25at their pleaſure without any legall cauſe.

That Biſhops are not bound to preach ſo much, or ſo oft as other men, (though they have greater wages, and ſo ſhould doe more worke.)

That they may Lawfully and laudablie neglect their ſpirituall functions, to mannage temporall Offices and affaires, exerciſe both Swords at once, and rule both Church and State together.

Now, that the Reader may be ſure, what I here ſet downe is true, let him peruſe a Booke entituled the Quench-Coale, and there he ſhall finde all theſe Aſſertions affirmed, in an Epiſtle written unto the King.

5. Whereas he ſaith, in a Church that is falſe in reſpect of outward Order, there may be taught many ſound and ſeaſonable truths.

This I grant, for Ieſuites and other Heretickes, deliver oft-times many true Doctrines: And what of this, may we therefore Lawfully heare them? In no cauſe; For as oneaaVſus est Nabuchodonoſor Muſicis Inſtrumē tis in erectione ſtatuae, ut homines ad ejus honorem & venerationem excitaret. Pintus Comment. in Dan. cap. 3. pag. 195.Dan 3 ſaith of the Muſicall Inſtruments which Nabuchadnezzar had in the plaine of Dura, they were brought thither, that men thereby might be the ſooner drawne to honour and worſhip the goulden Image. So truly are the Truths taught in falſe Churches, a bewitching Muſick to lead people unto them, and to cauſe them to fall downe before the Idols of the place, ſet up by Worldly Princes, againſt the expreſſe Commaundement of Ieſus Chriſt.

Againe, howſover the Prieſts he pleads for, Preach ſometime ſound truths, notwithſtanding otherwhile they ſpeake vaine and fooliſh things.

Mr. Fox bbActs & Monum. pag. 1027reports of one Hoſtius, who being in Gaunt, was tould that a certaine Fryer there, uſed to preach good and ſound Doctrine: But when he came to his Church, he heard him juſtifie Tranſubſtantion, and nothing elſe.

And the like comes many times to paſſe, that men reputed rare Preachers, make whole Sermons in defence of groſſe Idolatry, and ſpeake moſt reproachfully againſt the way and worſhip of God.

This being ſo, I would know of the Piſt: if a man be preſent, when ſuch blaſphemous Poſitions are delivered, whether he offend. If he ſay, No, then it followes that a man may heare any one and any p. 26where, and his diſtinction between hearing this Prieſt, and not that, is (nihil adverſum) impertinent and idle. If he ſay Yes, then it muſt follow (from his owne grant) that no fal…e Miniſter is to be heard, unleſſe a man know before hand, that he will not ſpeake perverſe things.

SECTION. 4.

THat the Church here pleaded for, is Antichriſtian and falſe: the Epiſt: doth acknowledge. Yet (ſaith he) that worſhipping of God, which conſiſteth in hearing his Word, is warrantable for us to doe there: And ſo much he undertakes to prove by this Argument.

That Preaching which ordinarily begits men to the faith of Chriſt, may lawfully be heard.

But the Preaching of many Miniſters in the Church of England hath and doth ordinarily beget men to the faith of Chriſt.

Therefore the Preaching of many Miniſters in England may lawfully be heard.

The firſt part of this ſillogiſme is proved out of Rom. 10. Where the Apoſtle telling what is the ordinary way God uſed to beget men to the faith of Chriſt telles us, it comes by hearing of the word of God preached, if faith comes by hearing the Word of God preached (to wit, if that be the outward meanes) then there is no queſtion but that a man may heare ſuch preaching, and any man may bluſh for ſhame, that ſhall deny this: So that the major part of the Argument is cleare:

And for the Minor parte they can not deny it, no more then a man at noon day can deny the ſunne to ſhine: for if any man make queſtion whether faith comes ordinarily by the preaching and hearing in England, it is a great queſtion whether they euer had faith or no: yet becauſe ſome are ſo groſſe as to deny this, we will therefore: proue the contrarie by this Argument: Ne puero gladium.

That preaching and hearing which makes them which were altogether carnal, & ſo not capable of a church eſtate, to become p. 27ſaints & ſo fit for a church-eſtate: That preaching muſt needs beget men to the faith.

But the preaching and hearing in England, made them that were unfit and carnall to become ſaints, and ſo fit members to the true Church, which were not ſo before.

Therefore the preaching in England and hearing the ſame doth beget men to the faith. That the preaching and hearing in England hath done this: Witneſſe the Church of Leyden and of Amſtelredam.

I cannot ſay of this mans Logick, as Ariſtotle aaforeign.did of Theodorus his making of Epethites, it is his whole art. But rather if that be true, the Bird bbE cantu dignoſcitur avis.is knowen by her ſinging, then the Publiſher is very unſkilfull this way.

Touching his Sillogiſme, the ſame is many waves peccant, as I ſhall make it obvious and cleare in the particulars following.

1. To reaſon from the effect of things is unſound and unconcludeable by the Scriptures: This is, as if a man would ſay, the Midwives ccExo. 1, 9Exod 1:9which lyed unto Pharaoh, did mvch good to the Iſraelites: Therefore they did well to Lie.

It hath been (ſaith CartwrightddFirſt repl. againſt D. Whitg. p. 79. the manner alwayes of wiſe and learned men to eſteeme of things by the cauſes and not by the event: And that eſpecially in matters of Religion. D. TwiſteeThe Doctrine of the Synod of Dort & Arles reduced to practice, p. 5. 6. in his reply to the Arminians: cals it a ſtrange courſe, becauſe a thing is uſefull, therefore it is to be concluded that it is true: And a litle after, they that doe ſuch things manifeſt hereby (ſaith he) that their caſe is desperate, and that they have very litle or no ground for their opinion out of the Word of God.

And this no doubt is moſt true, touching the Piſt: For were he able to prove the hearing in queſtion lawfull, he would not have publiſhed (as here he doth) ſo vaine a reaſon: Or rather indeed that which hath no weaght of reaſon in it.

Tertullian, ffDe praeſcript. adverſ. haerec.Epiphanius, ggHaer. 38, p. 124.Irenaeus hhL. 1. c. 16. and 17.and other Ancients: make mention of a Sect, named Cains, which held that ludas did well to betray Chriſt: The reaſon they render for it, is the ſame which the Piſt: here brings for the hearing of falſe Miniſters: To wit, the p. 28good effect **Quoniā per ipſum parata eſt nobis crucis ſalus, & per hoc propoſitum ſupernorū revelatio., that followed upon it. Thus he gratifies vile Hereticks, in raking up their old ground, to build his new errour upon.

2. Seeing this practice of hearing, is condemned by the Scriptures: ſhould it be granted (the which I deny) that ordinarilie their preaching begits men to the faith: yet his propoſition is unſound: For no evill may be done that good may come of it. kkRom. 2, 8Rom 2:8No, not the leaſt to procure: he greateſt good; that is a true ſaying: E malis nullum. May not I lend God a liellIob. 3, 7Job 3:7 for his glorie: Much leſſe doe any other evill for any other whatſover. As well the meanes (ſaith onemmD. Slater Expoſ. on Rom. 3, v. 8, pag. 308.Rom 3:8) as the meaning muſt be good. iiHoſ. 4. 15, Mat. 7 Rev. 18 4 Son. 1, 7.Hos 4:15Matt 7Rev 18:4So writes Pareus, nnIn Rom. 3. v. 8, ad bonum finem, bona & legittima requirantur media.Rom 3:8Timpler, ooExerc. Philoſ. Sect. de act. h…mā. nat. queſt.Lavater. ppCōment. Ioſh. c. 2, hom. 8, fol. 10.Josh 2VntoUnto a good end, lawfull and good wayes and meanes are required. The reaſon is, (qqD. Willet. Comment. in Rom. 3, Queſt. 12, p. 154. Par:Rom 3 no ſinne is eligible; for whatſoever is eligible, and to be made choſe off is good, but ſinne is no wayes good, for then it ſhould not be ſinne.

Moreover, according to this mans Argument, men may commit Schiſmes and Hereſies, for good comes of them; namelie, a clearer Illuſtration of Orthodoxall verity: So they may lie, ſteale, committ adultery, &c. becauſe of ſome following good effects: Which is the glorie of Gods wiſedome in his merciemercy towards the elect, and juſtice upon the reprobates.

But this I know he likes not: Notwithſtanding his and it (pedes ad caput) for the matter of reaſoning is all one: For thus he diſputeth; If the effects of falſe Miniſters prove good: Then may they lawfully be heard: But the firſt is true: Therefore the ſecond.

But ſtay, the conſequence followes not: For non mox bonum eſt, ex quo bonum ſequitur; ſayth a judicious Writer. rrComment, in 1 Cor. 11.1 Cor 11We may not ſtraight way ſay the thing is good, becauſe good followed of it.

As for the good effect it is not perſe, or foreign: But ex accidente, as LogiciansssDioniſ. Areopag. c. 4, de divin. nom: Fr. Pieolomen. in Doct. Ethica Rod. Goclen. cont. Philoſ. Theol. par. 3, p. 85, Keckerm. Syſt. log. l. 1, c. 13. phraſe it, By an accident. It cometh, ſayth Lyran, ttIn Rom. 6, ver. 1,Rom 6:1ex bonitate Dei, qui bona elicit ex malis. The like ſayth Theodoret. vvLib. de providenc. fol. 85.) Deus malis ad bonum aliquod utitur. So Paez xxCantic. Moyſ. Text. 4. An̄ot. 1, p. 67.peccata a Deo ordinantur in bonum.

To conclude though in evils of puniſhment, we may chuſe a leſſer to ſhunne a greater. Yet in evils of fault election hath no place. For DivinesyyDiſpute againſt Eng. Popiſh Ceremon. part. 2, ch. 1, pag. 10, hold abſolutely, that no thing which is evill in the uſe of it, may be done, either for prevention of evill, or for any good whatſoever, inter duo vel plura mala culpae ſayth Alſted zzTheol, Caſ. cap: 12, p: 210,nullum eſt eligendum. And Pareus aaIn Rom: 3, 8.the like: Nec ullum admittendum malum, ut even iat aliquod bonum, ſive per ſe, ſive per accidens.

p. 293. The maine drift and ſcope of his reaſon, is not onlie untrue; But indeed very daungerous, to ſay no worſe of it, as rending to reſtraine people from hearing the true Miniſters of Chriſt. And that this is ſo, I prove it thus. That preaching which hath not, or doth not ordinarily begit men to the Faith of Chriſt, may not lawfully be heard. But the preaching of many true Miniſters in their Congregations neither hath, nor doth ordinarily begit men to the Faith of Chriſt; Ergo, &c.

If his Argument in the affirmative be true: Tam forma, quam materia; To ſay nothing of mood and figure. Then in the negative this is true alſo, according to that knowne rule, parium par eſt ratio: There is alike reaſon of things alike. So in the Philoſopher:bbArist: Eth: c. … Contrariorum eſt eadem ratio. For inſtance, let it be in the affirmative thus; The godly pleaſe God; Muſt it not on the contrarie follow: The ungodly diſpleaſe God.

To applie this: If this be a reaſon and ground, why ſome Miniſters ought to be heard; Namely, becauſe true converſion ordinarily followeth their Miniſterie. If this [I ſay] be a main cauſe that they ſhould be heard; Then ſurely it muſt follow: Where ſuch effects of ordinary converſion appeare not; There muſt be no hearing. I ſay ſuch Miniſters are to be rejected, be they in their places never ſo painfull and conſcionable.

This being ſo, marke the inference: Noah preached a 120 yeares, and yet there followed no ordinarie converſion in the old World. The like may be ſaid of Elias, Iſaiah, Ieremie, Ezechiel, and other Prophers; Therefore it was not lawfull to heare them.

Hath not the Piſt: here ſhewed himſelfe an acute diſputer; For to build Babel, he puls downe Bethel; To juſtifie falſe Prophets, he condemnes the true. In a word, whiles he ſeekes to opē a doore unto the Synagogues of Satan, he ſhutteth up the way & paſſage unto the Courts of the Lord of Hoaſt. Had he thought on the WiſemansccP…o: 16, 20 ſaying, I thinke he would not have written ſo unaduiſedly. He that handleth a matter wiſely, ſhall find good.

4. For the proofe of his Major, there is not one ſound ſentence in it.

For 1. touching the diſdiapaſon or il-favoured coupling of the matter. The Scripture he alleadgeth is Rom. 10, verſ. 17. Fayth commeth by hearing the Word of God. Now, what of this? His Argument hence is not proved, neither doth this place, Rom. 10. look that way. For example, ſuppoſe I ſhould lay downe this Poſition, the ordinarie way to have right, between man and man, is to ſeeke unto p. 30the lawfull Magiſtrate: Would any one (unleſſe he had Boeoticu…n ingenium) hence inferre, that thoſe who had right ordinarilie done them by Vſurpers and Tyrants, did well to take it.

2. The hearing there mentioned, is not (as the Piſt: imagineth) a hearing promiſcuouſly of all preachers, but it reſpects ſuch only, as (legitime vocati) have a true outward calling to the Miniſterie. Thus Tertsllian ddLib. cōt. Mareien., Danaeus eeCommēt. in 1. Tim. 5 22.1 Tim 5:22, O…colampadius ffIn Eſae 52, Mayer ggOn Iam. 3, Doct 3, p. 179.Jas 3, Pareus hhOn the place., Guiliaudus iiId., Beza kkJd., Piſcator llIn Rom. 10. Obſer. in ver. 17.Rom 10, and others underſtand the place; Therefore ſhould his words be caſt into a forme, the very expreſſion wilbe confutation enought; For ſo they muſt runne. If the Apoſtle, Rom. 10, ſay, that the ordinarie meanes of mens converſion is by hearing the lawfull Miniſters of the Goſpell; Then may unlawfull Miniſters be heard; If he can make it hang otherwiſe, he were beſt to doe it, and ſave his credit what he can.

Thirdly, Paul Rom. 10, ſpeaketh of the ordinarie way, which God hath ordained to begit faith; But the practice here ſtood for by the Publiſh. is quite another thing: Even a tempting of God; For as the LearnednnMuſcul. in Mat. 4, Tom. 1, p. 47. Moller. in Pſa. 78, v. 18. p. 684. P. Mart. Loc. Com. Claſ. 2, c. 4, p. 209. Polan. Syntag. l. 9, c. 8, P. 596.Matt 4Ps 78:18 well obſerve, God is tempted, when men, leaving the ordinary and appointed meanes, uſe their owne deviſe; to obtaine either spirituall or temporall good thereby.

That this hearing is ſo, we have in part proved, and more will, if God permitt.

Now, for his Minor. 1. All Sects doe boaſt of the effects of their Miniſterie in converting men unto Chriſtianitie. Bellarmine ooDe not. Eccleſ. lib. 4, c. 12tels us, that Iew…s Gentles, and Turkes too, are converted in multitudes by their Church. AnotherppMaſſe-Prieſts ſupplication to the King, Sect. 31. layes downe the particulars, viz. Beſsites, Dacians, Getes, Scythians, Morins, Nervians, Armenians, Huns, Burgunnians, Scots, French Pictes, Bavartans, and well nigh an hundred other Nations are there reckoned up. The Arrians in old time ſayd qqFreculphus in Chronico Tom. 2, l. 4, c. 20.no leſſe: By their Ministers the Gothes and others, were turned to the ſayth from Paganiſme. But this is not proved or true, becauſe they ſay ſo.

2. If it were needfull, I could bring their owne teſtimony againſt him. For (to uſe Mr. RobinſonsrrJuſtificat. Separ. p. 51. words) there is nothing more common both in the Sermons and Writings of the forewarder ſort, then their complaints how litle good their preaching hath done. For Example, marke what ſome Miniſters of good note among them doe affirme.

p. 31This J dare warrant (ſayth Mr. Gifford ssCountrie Divinity, fol. 48.) if it be not ſo let me looſe both my eares, that goe through the Pariſhes of theſe graue and learned Divines, and unleſſe ſuch as runne to ſuch their victuals otherwhere, ye ſhall not find five among five ſkore, which are able to underſtand the neceſſary grounds and principles of religion. Another ttCatholike Conference, p. 164.ſaith more: Were it not for the good Làwes of our Kingdome, which doe conſtraine and compell men to make outward profeſſion, the greater number of our people of all ſorts in this Iland, would makè none at all. Mr. NicholsvvP. 218. in his Plea of the innocent, reports, that conferring with the particular perſons in his Pariſh (after he had preached ſome good ſpace among them) about the means of ſalvation, of 400 Communicants be ſcarce found one, but that thought and profeſſed a man might be ſaved by his owne weldoing, and that he trusted he did ſo live, that by Gods grace he ſhould obtaine everlaſting life, by ſerving God and good Prayers.

This being ſo, what credit is to be given to the Piſt: Minor. Seeing the men he ſpeakes for, give in their evidence and witneſſe againſt him.

3. Howſoever many liuing in jdola…rous places are converted; yet how knowes he, that the preaching in queſtion doth it. For private men & wemon, may & doe turne their neighbours from evil, & that ordinarilie: ſom…ime by teaching, & witneſſing the truth, otherwhile by reading, talking, conferring of the Scripture, informing their Children and family in the fayth. And this the ScripturexxLevit. k. 27, 28, Prov. 31. 26, Ma…. 3, 16, Mat. 18, 15, Iam. 5, 19, 20, 1 Cor. 14, 24, Act. 8, 4, 26, 1 Cor. 7. 16, Epheſ. 64, Deu. 6, 7.Prov 31:26Matt 18:15Jas 5:19Jas 5:201 Cor 14:24Acts 8:4Acts 8:261 Cor 7:16Deut 6:7 ſhewes, and the Treatiſer yyIuſtif. Sep. p. 457,acknowledgeth; D. Fulke zzIn Rom. 10, ver. 15,Rom 10:15in his anſwer to the Rhemiſts, ſheweth out of Ruffinus; how divers great Nations have beene converted by men and women out of office: As a great Nation of the Indians, by Aedeſius & Frumentius; The Country of Iberians by a captive woman.

And here by the way, this may ſerve to his demaund: Let them tell us where they have received their faith? We anſwer, the wind bloweth where it liſtoth. Sure we are, faith we had, when we left our unſanctified ſtandings there; But if any ſhould hence affirme, that we had it by hearing falſe Miniſters, he ſhould ſhew follie and raſhnes. Secret thingsaaDeu. 29, 29.Deut 29:29 belong to the Lord; Quae ſupra nos nihil ad nos. AuguſtinebbMelius eſt dubitare de occultis, quam litagare de incertis Lib, 8, c. 5. de Trinit. adviſeth us well: It is better to doubt of ſecret things, then to ſtrive for uncertainè things.

p. 32If the Piſt: had minded this, I thinke he would not have written ſo peremptorie in a matter unknowne.

4. Where reads he in▪ Gods Booke, that men are named viſible ſaints, and judged firt matter for Church eſtate, they being in the mean while actually members of falſe Churches, and practiſe dayly groſſe idolatry.

I thinke with the Treatiſer ccIuſtific. Separ. pag. 269., true viſible Chriſtians, have Chriſt for their King, viſibly or in outward appearance, & ſo far forth as men can judge: (For by viſible, we mean that which may be ſeen of men, oppoſed to inviſible which only God ſeeth,) for Chriſt is not divided, but looke to whom he is a Prieſt to ſave them, and a Prophet to teach them, to the ſame perſons he is alſo a King to reigne over them.

That Chriſt then ſhould be ſaid to be a King, unto any people continuing members of Antichriſts Kingdome: Or that ſuch ought to be deemed viſible ſaints, and firt matter for a true Church, which live under a falſe Miniſterie, Worſhip; and Government. For my part, as yet I cannot ſee reaſon for it; But thinke the word is againſt it.**Rev. 14, 45, Epheſ. 2, 20. Deu. 33, 3 Eſa. 4, 34, Rom. 1, 7. 1 Cor. 1, 2 Philip. 1. 1Rev 14:45Eph 2:20Deut 33:3Isa 4:34Rom 1:71 Cor 1:2Phil 1:1

If a man ſhould give up his name unto a Vſurper, take his part, obey his precepts, joyne with him in rebellion and treaſon? May he for all this, be counted (and that juſtly) a viſible good ſubject unto his King. To me it is fide majus.

For his wordy and windy inſultation; That any man may bluſh for ſhame that ſhall deny this; I paſſe it by, wiſhing him hereafter to lay things downe according to allegata probata; Let the Scripture ſpeake ddSanctis Scripturis non loquē tibus quis loquitur; Ambr. de vocat. Gent. l, 2, c. 3, Tom. 2.in the points between us: For without it, nothing is to be affirmedeeOmne quod loquimur debemus affamare de Scripturis ſanctis. Hierom. in Pſ. 98 Tom. 8.Ps 98: and beyond it, nothing to be concludedffNihil ultra quam ſacris literis proditum eſt definiendum. Eraſm. in Hiliar.: Gods vvord alone is certaine, other proofes uncertaine and falſe, if they diſcent from it.ggSolum Dei verbum certum: caetera falſa ſi diſsentiāt. Ferus in Epiſt. ad Roma. c. 3. p. 303.

5. Howſoever it is true (as Polanus hhComment. in Ezech. cap. 16, pag. 365.Ezek 16, Deering ii23. Lecture on Epiſtle to the Hebr., Whitaker kkRom. Pont. Cont. 4 Quaeſt. 5, pag. 681., and others ſay) in a falſe Church by the preaching there, ſome ſometimes are brought to the faith: yet (with theſe) I deny, that this is an ordinarie worke, but rather extraordinarie; The reaſon is, becauſe their hearers generally by their Doctrines, are kept in blindnes, idolatry, p. 33wilworſhip, &c. So that they fit not members to true Churches, but unfit them rather; For no ſooner ſee they a man to ſet his face that way, but they ſeeke immediately, to keepe him from it (nolens volens) either by flatterie, perſecution or the like.

Laſtly, if there be any weaght of reaſon in his words, they make then againſt himſelfe, and quite overthrow his owne cauſe. And thus I prove it: No man can lawfully heare falſe Miniſters, unleſſe he know before hand that they have and doe ordinarily begit men to the faith: But ſuch fore-knowledge is not to be had: Ergo, &c.

The propoſition is certaine by his owne grant; For the maine ground whereon the whole weaght of his matter relyeth, is this, viz: that ſome Antichriſtian Miniſters ought to be heard, becauſe they have and doe ordinarily begit men to the Faith: Now, this muſt needs be underſtood of that which is viſible, for otherwiſe (n…que Coelum neque terram attingit) he ſpeakes idly and from the point.

The Aſſumption cannot poſſiblie be denyed, except men wilbe ſenceles; For who can ſay upon certaine knowledge, that any falſe Miniſter in the world, hath and doth ordinarily begit men to the faith. Thus the man is ſnared in his owne words; And may ſay with the Poet: Heu patior telis vulnera facta meis.

Before I end this point, I thinke i… good to preſent here unto the Readers view, one obſervation or two, from the Piſt: Argument.

1. Howſoever he ſayth but litle, yet that which he ſayth is ſo abſtruſe, darke, full of evaſions and ſtarting holes, as a man cannot tell what to make of it. He ſends us to the effect of preaching: But to what end is this? What light? What information can a man take hence: conſidering that as God is the Authour of true faith, ſo the time, inſtruments, meanes, &c. by which he exhibiteth it unto man, is knowne only to himſelfe, and not to others of others.

Indeed here we may obſerve a cleare difference between truth & falſehood; Between Chriſts inſtitutions, and mans inventions. Whatſoever God will have us to doe, or not doe, he layes downe the ſame openly, preciſely, manifeſtly: All the wordsllPro. 8. 9.Prov 8:9 of his mouth are plaine unto him that underſtandeth. The ſpirit speaketh expreſly:mm1. Tim. 4, 1.1 Tim 4:1 Non obſcurè, & in voluiè: Sed manifeſtè, praecriptè, praeciſe, ſayth Guilia…dus.nnComment. on good the place. VVhereunto accordeth Augustine:ooDivinitus viſū eſt, ut ſacra Oracula ſimplici & perſhicuo exararentur dictionu …enere, ne praetendere quiſquam poſſit nihil a ſe, in illis intelligs Ad vonſianum It was thought p. 34good unto Almighty God, that the Scriptures ſhould be penned in a ſimple and plaine kind of ſpeach, leaſt any man ſhould pretend, that he could underſtand nothing in them. Another ppSam: Bachiler Serm. Campe Royall, p. 36.Gods Oracles are plaine, and labour with no ambiguities, like thoſe of Pyrrhus, and Croeſus, whereof no certaine meaning could be gathered.

That the truth is ſimple and plaine, Ethnickes by the light of nature, could ſufficiently ſee into ſuch things. One of them touching this matter, ſaith thus: qqVeritatis ſermo eſt ſimplex & apertus nec varijs indiget explicationibus & ambagibus; ſed iniuſta cauſa cum per ſe ſit morbida, neceſſario indiget aſtutis pharmacis. Euripid.The truth is ſimple and plaine, and needeth is not variety of windlaces and fe…chings of matter about the buſh: But an evill cauſe in that it is ſick and deſeaſed, hath need to have a cunning plaſter ſet unto it. Another rrAriſto.of them hath theſe words: That phraſe and forme of speaking hath truth in it, which is common and uſed of all, having in it nothing craftily deviſed, neither cloking ſome other thing then is profeſſed.

Contrariwiſe when Satan ſpeaketh by his inſtruments, he ſpeaketh ſo ambiguouſly and clokedly, as fitly, that of Apollos Oracle may be applied to it: foreign.**Quod ambiguis ambagibus reſpōſa conſulentibus daret. For one knowes not how to take it, nor which way to apply it. Pertinently to this purpoſe writes SibeliusssDeſacrific. Abra. p. 56, 57.: Humaine Doctrines are various and ambiguous, wrapped and foalded with abſtruſe labrynths of opinions, whereby peoples minds are ſo troubled and tyred, that they cannot plainly open themſelves, neither have any quietnes, or come to their deſired end. But the Doctrine of God is right, that is, plaine and perspicuous, not wrapped with un-even and crooked ſuttleries and deluſions of Sophiſtrie, neither leads us into by-pathes and errours; but bringeth peace to the conſcience, ad removeth àll ſcruples and doubts: So he.

Sadeel ttOpera Theol Pref. de Meth. Theol. diſput. Error. 3. p. 8.writing of deceivers, & the ſundry wayes they uſe to beguile the ſimple: Notes them to be men affecting darke ſayings, and ſeeking by miſts and fogges of ſtrange & unfamiliar arguments, to blind their ſpirituall eyes, and puzzle their underſtandings. And this is no late deviſe; For Auguſtine in his Booke of Hereſies maketh mention of the Hereticks Marcitae, ſo named of one Marcus. p. 35And touching them, thus I find it written:vvObſcuriſſime & quibuſdā verborum tanquam miſteriorum in volueris utentes loquebantur de Deo, ut ſtuperēt audientes homines, potius quā intelligerent. They did ſpeake darkly, and uſed ſuch a wrapping kind of words, that the hearers were rather aſtonied with the ſtrangnes of the words, then edified with any underſtanding they had of the meaning thereof.

The thing being thus, the Reader hence (as by a light) may gready helpe himſelfe to diſcerne, on whoſe ſide the truth is, in the difference between us. Our diſpute is about Church-hearing: We ſay, that Chriſtians are bound to performe this ſervice unto God, in true conſtituted Churches; There (we ſay) muſt men heare the whole Counſell of God, taught unto them, either by lawfull Miniſters, or by Brethren out of office; For confirmation hereof, we can produce many divine precepts; Alſo the Example and practice of our forefathers from the firſt age of the word hitherto. Beſides, this is a Poſition, ſo certaine and cleare, as it is holden in all Schooles, written continually in Bookes, preached every day in Sermons, taught in all Churches: So that (haec Momo ipſi ſatisfaciant) no body can ſpeake againſt it.Danaeus in Auguſt. haer.

Our Oppoſites howbeit they grant us this, yet affirme that in falſe Churches Antichriſtian Ministers may be heard alſo:**Pag. 3. And this is not only (they ſay) lawfull, but in ſome caſes neceſſary for all, of all Sects and ſorts of Chriſtians, having opportunity and occaſion of ſo doing.

This indeed they ſay? But how prove they it to be true? Not by any law of God taken out of the old or new Teſtament: For that they cannot doe; Not by any holy mans Example, for they know there is none extant? Not by any ſound conſequence rightly drawne from the Scripture, for (quid ſi Caelum ruat xxTeren. in Heautont.) that is impoſſible. VVhat doe they then? as Ieremy yyIer. 2, 13.Jer 2:13ſayth, they forſake the fountaine of living waters, and hew them out ceſternes, broken cèſternes that can hold no waters.

They deviſe certaine obſtruſe, darke and ambiguous phraſes and diſtinctions: As of naturall hearing in a Church, and of a hearing wherein there is Communion: Of ſome Churches, falſe in respect of order: Others in reſpect of fayth and order: of hearing falſe Miniſters, not (quatenus) as they are falſe Miniſters, or their Miniſters, but as men gyfeed and the Biſhops Miniſters: of certaine effects which followes mens teaching, &c.

p. 36Thus their proofes are only their bare and bould affirmation: For leaving the Scriptures, they uſe Paralogiſmes, fond cavils, and falſe arguments. The which courſe not only ſhewes an il caſe, but alſo manifeſteth, that the embracers thereof, are either ignorant people who cannot judge of things that differ, or ſome, that have ſome mens perſons in admiration: Or ſuch as are unwilling to ſuffer affliction with the people of God.

I could here mention ſome other deviſes in this kind; as an implicit Church-covenant. A true outward calling which ſome have, to the Miniſtery from their Congregation, but ſecret and unknowne either to the Miniſter or the people.

But I will at this time abſtaine from ſuch by-controverſies, and the rather becauſe I ſhall have a firt occaſion to ſpeake hereafter of it; Namely, when the Ʋndertakers have finiſhed their anſwer to my former Booke, and Mr. Davenport publiſhed his many things that he hath to ſay againſt it. For ſo much he inſinuateth in his Treatiſe betweene him and Mr. Pagit.**Pag. 282 283.

2. Obſerve againe, to what groſſe abſurdities his argument leadeth; For unles it be only wind and vanitie, theſe ſweet collections muſt needs follow. 1. No Miniſter comming newly to his place, is to be heard. 2. Before any are, inquirie muſt be made, whether they ordinarily begit men to the faith. 3. If after triall it be found, that they doe not ſo, then they muſt not be heard what true Doctrines ſoever they teach.

Is not this workman-like done? (ſay Reader) hath not the Piſt: (omne tulit punctum) made the way cleare now, for the hearing of falſe Miniſters? Truely I thinke, except a man be partiall in the point: And of his mind who ſaid:zzNon perſuade bis e…i imſi perſuaſeris. Though you doe convince me, yet I will not be convinced; He muſt acknowledge, that he hath made it doubt fuller then ever it was, and ſuch as were not well ſatisfied formerly in the thing, have enought here from his owne pen, to put them quite and wholy off.

p. 37SECTION. 5.

THe Pist: having done with his Logick: comes in the next place to charge his Oppoſites, with contradiction, abſurdity, and ſpeaking little better then Blasphemy. A great fault, if true; But how doth he prove it? They ſay, it is not the Word of God, as it is preached in Antichriſtian Aſſemblies.

Anſw. The Publiſh: had done well, if he had publiſhed out aſſertion (de manu in manum,) truely and faithfully. But ſeeing he hath not done ſo, I will here lay it downe; Thus it is: The word preched by falſe Miniſters, is not that word unto which God hath promiſed a blèſſing of increaſe. Or it is not the ordinary way and meanes which the Scriptures speakes of, to begit men to the faith. Had he ſo alleadged it, he might well have held his tongue, and not talke ſo vainly as he doth, of Gods Word, if Mr. Canne ſhall preach it; And none of Gods Word, if another doe preach the ſame. For our difference is not about the Word ſimply, as it ſtands in ſillables and letters; But rather in reſpects the time and place preached in, and the perſons preached by and to; That is, as the one beeing an ordinance of Chriſt, the other of Antichriſt; As the one (that is the word preached in a lawfull office) beeing like Mount Gerizim under the bleſſing; The other like Mount Ebol under the curſe.

I will expreſſe this paticular more fully in this manner, put the caſe, a Companie of Rebels going apart, ſhould take with them the Statute-booke of the Realme, and ſet up among them, one or more to adminiſter civil juſtice according the contents thereo…, now though no man can denie but this is the Kings Law which they have, yet as they adminiſter it, ſo it is not his Law, or more plainly, that is not his Law, which they adminiſter, neither may any good ſubject in ſuch a caſe receive any adminiſtration at their hands.

The holy Veſſels in Babilon were the Lords ſtill, yet the Iſraelites there, might not make any religious uſe of them; So in ſpirituall Babilon, the Bible there is Gods Booke; Nevertheleſſe the Godly are forbidden to goe thether, to heare it, either read or taught to them.

We finde under the Law a difference between the Creatures, ſome p. 38are ſaid to be clean, others not; But how comes this? Not of themſelves, for ſo nothing is evill or uncleane; (for all Gods Workes were created good; aaGen. 1. ult.Gen 1But in reſpect of the uſe forbidden: So thouching Gods Word preached, in one reſpect it is pure, in another not? How …o? Not but the Word in itſelfe is ſtill good and true. The difference is, becauſe of Gods Commaundement, he having as flatly forbidden the uſe of it (taught or heard) in falſe Churches, as he did ſome beaſts under the Law.bbI would hauehave the Piſt: to tell me, what contradiction, abſurditie, or blaſphemy it is to ſay: though Circumciſion in itſelf were of God: yet as it was uſed in the falſe Church under the Kings of Iſrael: It was none of Gods ordinance; If was Gods ordinance, if a true Minister in Gods Church adminiſtred it; But if a Prieſt of Ieroboams making did adminiſter the ſame, It was none of Gods Ordinance.

I wiſh therefore the Reader, to note in what reſpect we place our difference, between the Word preached in a true Church and in a falſe Church; We ſay in the one (that is in the true Church) it is cleane. In the other, we ſay it is not: Nevertheleſſe, if it be conſidered, as God is the authour of the whole Scripture; And as it containes words and ſentences, ſo we ſay, it is all cleane and good; The reaſon then, why we ſay their preaching is uncleane, is in the ſame reſpect, that ſome creatures were uncleane under the Law; Namely, in reſpect of the uſe forbidden.

As the tree of knowledge of good and evill, hurt not of itſelfe, I mean the fruit, but the tranſgreſſion after the commaundement, the thing in itſelfe good, but the uſe forbidden; So Gods Word in falſe Churches (as that fruit) in itſelfe is good, but the uſe there prohibited.

And becauſe the Publiſh: takes it ſo ill, that any difference ſhould be put between the ſame word preached in Bethel and Babilon. I will (to appeaſe him) adde one word more. As a falſe and forged Conſtitution, makes a Church a reall and ſubſtanciall Idoll; So all that comes from it, is touched with the Idolatry of that Conſtitution. This is a ruled opinion of many Divines, the State makes all the publick actions to be formally good or evill; For as the Temple ccMatt. 23, 17, 19.Matt 23:17Matt 23:19ſanctifieth the gould, the Altar the offrings; So the ordinances of the Church under the Goſpell, are ſanctified to us; That is (as Bucer ddIn Mat, 23, v. 17.truely ſpeaketh) in the uſe of them made lawfull to us, in that they have their Ryſe, from a true and right Power.

Seeing then the Church in Queſtion, wants a right Conſtitution, it muſt follow, that all ſpirituall actions done in it, (whether prayer, preaching Sacraments, Cenſures) as they are there done, are none of Gods ordinances; though true it is, in themſelves they are of God. Yet I ſay, as the Word is there preached, the Sacraments there adminiſtred, p. 39&c. So they are not his; I ſay not his, though in outward performances they are practiſed, as in true Churches. But of this more in another place.eeJn defence of Object. 15.

Another thing for which he blames his Oppoſites, is, their miſapplying the Example of Nadab and Abihu; I will here ſet downe their words, as he reports them, and his anſwer thereunto.

It was true incenſe which Nadab and Abihu tooke, to offer up to the Lord, but becauſe they tooke ſtrange fire; and not the fire which was from the Altar, as the Lord had appointed, therefore the Lord ſent a fire to deſtroy them: So ſay they, it is the true Word of God, which is preached in England, but becauſe they preach the ſame by an unlawfull office, therefore the Lord abhorres it: A ſtranger collection I thinke can hardly be heard, for here ſtrange fire is oppoſed to an unlawfull outward calling; which nothing can be more abſurd, for Nadab and Abihu had a true outward calling to Offer, they were the ſonnes of Aaron (ſaith the text) therefore if any thing hence might be concluded, in just proportion, it muſt be to the Doctrine taught, and not in the leaſt to the calling: So that we may from thence gather thus much, that if a Miniſter in regard of his outward calling true: ſhall teach any thing that is not from the Lord, they are to expect Gods judgement for the ſame, and more cannot hence be collected.

What Origen ffNon eſt periculum ut eis ſubvertuntū ullus fidelium, lib. 1 cont. Celſ.ſaid of Celſus workes, may fitly be applyed to this mans writings: There is no daunger, leaſt any faithfull man ſhould be ſubverted by them; For he talketh and not reaſoneth.

To anſwer: But are you in earneſt, ſpeake out aloud? Can no more be concluded? What; will a little more be (aliena are) beyond the marke; So you ſay; But a ſtranger collection I thinke can hardly be heard; Dicclare Teren. in And.For I dare ſay, you are alone✴✴Solus ſapit. here in your opinion; Learned men generally give a more…large expoſition of the place.

The ſcope of that text, we are taught by an Engliſh Biſhop, Babington, in his Notes on that place: We may hence learne and ſettle in our hearts, with what ſeveritie the Lord challengeth and defendeth his authoritie, in laying downe the way and manner of his worſhip, not lea…ing it to any creature to meddle with, but according to praeſcription and p. 40appointment from him. Content he is, that men ſhall make Lawes for humaine matters, &c. But for his divine worſhip, he will praſcribe it himſelfe, and what he appointeth, that must be done, and that only, or elſe Nadah and Abihu their puniſhment exspected, that is, Gods wrath exſpected in ſuch manner as he ſhall pleaſe.

And this he learned of CalvinggAlium ignom ſacris adhiberi vetuit Deus, ut adventities omnes ritus excluderet, ac doceret, ſe detestari quic quid aliū de profectum erat. diſcamus ergo ſic attendere ad Dei mandatum ne eius cultum ullis extraneis Commentin vitiemus. who upon the Place ſaith: God forbad other Fyre, &c. to be uſed, that he might exclude all inventious rites, and teach that he detested whatſoever was come from elſe-where. Let us therefore learne ſo to attend to the Commaundement of God, that we defile not his worſhip with any far fetched deviſes.

IuniushhPeccatum in eo fuiſse, q…od in ratione divini cultus non attenderint ad mandatum Dei, &c. Anal, in loc. mentioning their ſinne, ſayth: It was in that they kept not Gods Commaundement in the matter of his worſhip. And a little after: They ſhould not have added of their owne any thing thereto.

PiſcatoriiCultum Dei exten…um praeciſe ex Dei praeſcriptum exercendum eſse: itaque non habet hic locum bena hominum intentio. from the place, rayſeth this obſervation: The outward worſhip of God muſt be ſtrictly done according to his Commaundement: A good intention therefore hath here no place.

Mr. Attorſall alſo in his Commentarie upon Numb. 3. 4. doth largely declare out of this Example, how God diſliketh and diſclameth mens deviſes in his ſervice, as traſh, trumpery, and meere dotage. So Beda, Bruno, Brentius. Pelargus, Chytraeus, Sarcerius, S…rigelius, Aretius, Borrhaeus, and other interpret the place.

And whereas he applyeth it to falſe Doctrine taught by one that hath his outward calling true. He may ſay in the words of that boaſting City: k I am, and there is none beſides me; For this is his owne deviſe, and it muſt live and die with them.

The place beeing thus underſtood; Let us now ſee, if the ſame may not be (ab uno de grammate) fithe applyed againſt this practice of Hearing. From the place then I doe thus reaſon:

All will worſhip and ſuperſtition is ſinne.

p. 41To heare Antichristian Miniſters in their unlawfull aſſemblies is ſuperſtition and will-worſhip.

Therefore it is ſinne to doe it.

The firſt Propoſition is grounded upon the fore-mentioned example: Levit. 10. 1. 2. and the ſame is without exception. The ſecond Propoſition is thus proved.

1.Lib. 1. vit. ex: cult: oppoſe. Col. 501. 502. From the nature of ſuperſtition, which is, as Zanchy deſcribes it a taking into the worſhip of God more then he requires in his worſhip.

Hence ſuperſtition (as ſome derive the word) is that which is done ſupra ſtatutum; And in this reſpect the hearing in queſtion, is ſuperſtition, as beeing uſed in Gods worſhip, upon no other ground but mans deviſe.

2. According to the Schoolemen, mmVel cui non debet, vel non e… modo quo debet.that is Superſtition, when divine worſhip is not exhibited, either to the perſon it ſhould be, or not in the way and manner as it ought. And this is held to be a ſound truth by all Orthodoxal Writers.

Now,Aquin. 2. 20. q. 92. Art. 1. howſoever the Hearers of Falſe Miniſters doe exhibit worſhip to God, yet it is not in the manner and way that they ſhould worſhip him: And this is cleare by the Treatiſers owne confeſſion; For he confeſſeth that the hearing which he pleads for,nnPag. 37 is no particular ordinance left by Christ. Againe, he ſaith: It were to be wiſhed, that no Church Miniſterie were to be found which is not approveable by the Word of God, notwithſtanding any good act performed by them that poſſes it.

If I am not deceived, in theſe words he deſtroyes what he built before: Is this hearing no ordinance left us by Chriſt? Is the controverted Miniſterie ſo evil a thing, as that every good Chriſtian is to pray for its rooting up? How then can it be both lawfull and in caſes neceſſary for all Sects and ſorts of people to pertake with it. If this be not (ex diametro) croſſe worke, and groſſe contradiction, I know not what is.

3. This hearing cannot be free of ſuperſtition, in regard men are preſent at falſe worſhip; The which preſence (as the Learned writeooPraeſentia eſt communicatio quaedam in cultu, Slater. Epiſt. 1. ad Corinth. c. 10.) is a certaine communion therewith.

4. It is great ſuperſtition to approve, countenance, or give honour to any of the wayes of Antichriſt. They that are ſincere Chriſtians p. 42(ſaith ppin Cenſura cap. 9. fol. 471.Bucer) cannot abide any thing that is his. The least ſhew (ſaith VigandusqqSynepſ. Antichriſt) to pleaſe either him or his followers, is will worſhip. Of this judgement were IuniusrrJn Hoſ. 2. 16.Hos 2:16, MuſculusssLoc. com. de …radit. p. 421. 422., BezattTract. theol. vol. 3. pa. 210., MollerusuuIn Pſ. 16Ps 16, Zepperusxxde Polit. p. 72., SadeelyyContr. Monachos p. 70., and others.

Now, me thinkes there ſhould not be a man ſo voyd of reaſon, as to ſay, that a Miniſter of Antichriſt, as he is preaching by vertue of his Maſters commiſſion, and under his ſeale and authority, may even then be heard, and yet no honour, no approbation, no countenance, nor any ſhew thereof, be given unto Antichriſt therein.

5. It is vitious and ſuperſtitious to ſimbolize with idolaters; The Scriptures**Levit. 18, 3. Deu. 12. 30. Exo. 23. 24. 2 Chro. 13 9. Levit. 19. 27. 28Lev 18:3Deut 12:30Exod 23:242 Chr 13:9Lev 19:27Lev 19:28 forbidd it. And the Saints in all ages have carefully ſhund it, as we ſhall ſhew in another place. But this Hearing is no other; For idolaters in this, are imitated in ſundry acts of their idolatrie; In ſo much as Papiſts and Atheiſts too, may well twitt our balters in the words of the Samaritane woman, how is it that thou beeing a Chriſtian joyneſt thy ſelfe to us Antichriſtians? Is it not ſtrange that thou who profeſſeſt our Church to be falſe, our Miniſterie unlawfull, our Church-government Popiſh, ſhouldeſt yet come to us, and pertake in our adminiſtrations? Surely this argueth, that either thou underſtandeſt not the practice, which thy grounds lead thee too, or elſe for ſome by reſpect; refuſeſt to walke accordingly to them.

6. Superſtition is committed, when more eſtimation is had of a thing, more dignitie and excellency placed in it, and more regard had to it, then God alloweth or can ſtand with his will revealed in his Word; And ſo much Zanchy aaLib. 1. de vit. ext. cult. oppoſ. col. 504. 505.proves by ſundry inſtances; In this regard alſo, hearing falſe Miniſters, is ſuperſticious, becauſe that thing is honoured and embraced, which we finde not in the Scripture to be lawfull: and thus an idol is ſet up, tanquam Deus ex parte, though not vt Deus ſimpliciter.

Thus I have anſwered the Prefacer: Now, how he will take it, J know not. Cotis, a Thraſian King, breaking ſome veſſels to pieces, was aſked a reaſon; He anſwered, that he might not be moved to anger at another for doing of it. Had the Epiſt: been ſo wiſe, as to have torne his writing himſelfe, and ſo not publiſhed it, he would not (as it may be he now will) have been angry at another for laying open the weakenes and vanity of it.

p. 43AN Anſvver unto the Treatiſe.