A Necessity of Separation from the Church of England, Chapter 5

A Necessity of Separation from the Church of England · Chapter 5

p. 210CHAP. V.

Pag. 54.WE heard in the firſt Chapt. of the reference, which Dr. Ames had unto Mr. Bradſhawes book, intituled, the vnreaſonableneſſe of ſeparation; now as my promiſe there was, ſo I will (according to the meaſure of knowledge, and grace, given me) in this Chapter make anſwer unto it, that ſo the godly minded, may judge, whether the Separatists, or he, are moſt vnreaſonable.

That the reader might not exſpect to ſee any thing in the booke, proved by the word of God, the publiſher therefore of it (after ſome ſcoffing at Mr. Iohnſon and others) tells us, that it was not the authors meaning to gather proofes, &c. and much quotation may prove ſom thing, but anſwereth not directly to any thing.

Anſw. 1. Whoſoever meanes to ſettle well the conſcience, eſpecially in a main point of faith and religion, ought neceſſarily to bring good proofes from the ſcriptures, for the things whereof he ſpeaketh: For otherwiſe, either men will give no truſt unto hisAuguſt. contro. maxim. l. 3, c. 14 words, or if they doe, it muſt be unadviſedly. And howſoever, he putts Gods word here ſleightly by, notwithſtanding others have otherwiſe eſteemed of it. Augustine was of mind, that Councells, Biſhops, &c. ought not to be objected for triall of controverſies, but the holy ſcriptures onelyonly,

Another ſaith, I yeeld the ſcripture a witneſſe of my p. 211ſence; and my expoſition without the Scripture, let it be of noOrig. Homil. 9. in Ier. Panormit. de elect. & ele. poteſt. c. ſignif. Freſh ſuit, l. 2, p. 351 credit: Yea hereto accord the very Papiſts, We are rather to beleeve one private faithfull man, than a whole Councell, and the Pope himſelfe, if he have the Word and reaſon on his ſide. As D. Ames therefore ſaid, ſo doe we ſay, we eſteeme not any thing like of a thouſand objections, fetched from teſtimonies, ſubject to errour, as we would have done of one plaine teſtimonie divine, if it could have been produced.

2. That quotation of ſcriptures ſhould not anſwer directly to any thing, it ſounds in my apprehenſion very harſhe, to ſay no worſe▪ for I have hitherto allwayes thought, that there could be no better anſwering then by ſcripture, I mean rightly all eaged & applyed.

3. As many wordes ſimply will not ſerve to vntye the knot of a ſyllogiſme, ſo neither will a few firmely knitt it, except they be ſpoken to good purpoſe.

4. For his upbraiding of us with ignorance about Logical formes, I let it paſſe, we are, that we are, and doe bleſſe God for that ſmall knowledge of humane learning, which we have received, & do think it a practiſe moſt unbeſeeming any of the Saints, to boaſt of their own ability, much more to deride others, for their lacks But this is to be obſerved generally, that thoſe which ſtād for bad cauſes, doe after this ſort ſtill reproch their adverſaries; thus do the Papiſts, aaDefence of the Apolog. of the chu. of Eng. p. 619the Proteſtants, ſo the Protestants, bbMr. Hutton againſt the miniſt. of Devon, & Cornwal, p. 9, & p. 151 the 7. confideration. Stones Serm. on Pſa. 120.Ps 120the Puritans, and ſo they us, as here, & in their other writingsccSprint uſually. Now to the booke.

p. 212I thought once to have ſett downe his anſwer, before my reply, as he hath done Mr. Iohnſons reaſons, before his anſwer: but I perceived then, that this treatiſe would be very large; beſides, both their bookes are allready in many mens hands, & therefore I changed my mind▪ only I doe deſire the reader to peruſe both their writings, for ſo ſhall he profitt the more, by that which I have here penned.

Anſw. to pag. 1.I find nothing here, but ſome inſinuating floriſhes, of his owne ſkill in Logick, and great contempt putt upon Mr. Iohnſon, for his vnableneſſe therein. Now, my purpoſe is, both here and in other places, in a manner alltogether to paſſe-by his vntemperate ſpeaches, knowing that before this time, he hath made his reckoning for them with God.

1 Pet. 3. 9. Rō. 13, 21,1 Pet 3:9Beſides, it is a Chriſtian part not to render rebuke for rebuke, and a thouſand times better were it to ſuſtaine even a legion of reproaches, then for a man by turning (though but one) to give cauſe of ſuſpition, that evill hath gott ſom part of conqueſt over him. But I marvell, why he ſaith, that Mr. Iohnſon in diſdaine ſtileth them forward preachers; For 1. He knew not the others heart. 2. To my knowledge, this is a terme commonly given, and taken of them, acceptably, and1 Cor. 7.1 Cor 7 in good part. 3. The Apoſtle ſaith, Love hopeth all things; But it is evident Mr. Bradſh. followed not his rule, which is, when things are doubtfull in themſelvs, to embrace the beſt.

Anſw. to pag. 2, 3.He ſpeaks often of their law, but what law he means, I know not, whether the cōmon, provincial, civil, or ſtatut; p. 213neither what by the true intent of it, and therefore until ſome freind of his, doe ſet forth an expoſition of it, we cannot give to it any direct anſw. 2. Seing he grants, to be a true miniſt. there muſt be a qualificatiō, according to the intent of the law, we deſire them, in their next writing, to tell us plainly, whether all their Bb. Preists, & Deacons, are ſo qualified: if not, then certainly Mr. Dayr. Mr. Bradſh. &c. have much deceived the people: For under the colour of ſome few among them, qualified (as they ſay) they have cunningly ſought, to juſtifie all the reſt; and yet knew, (as it is cleare by this mans writing) that their miniſterie is falſe and unlawfull. 3. Let the vanity of his ſpeach be here obſerved; their ministers are true, if they bee, &c. which is, as if a knowne harlot, ſhould ſay, I am honeſt, if I am qualified, according to the word of God. 4. He miſtakes Mr. Iohnſons words, for he doth not ſay, that the Prelates are miniſters of the Church Aſsemblies, but of the Church of England; Notwithſtanding, if there were need, we could prove both by their profeſſion, and practiſe, thatReply to D. Morton pa. 85. the Bb. are the proper Paſtors of all the Pariſhes in their Dioceſſes, and the reſt are curats only to them. 5. If the miniſterie of the Prelates, belong not to any ordinarie aſſemblies, then is the ſame Antichriſtian, and ſo conſequently is that which is derived from it; And ſo much from their owne Principles, we have formerlyP. 9, 11, 39. proved. 6. He ſhould have proved, that that authority & power, which the Law gives to the Prelates, is lawfull, and good; for if the ſame be otherwiſe (as he knew in his owne conſcience it is) I doe not ſee for what p. 214reaſon he mentioneth it, it having no weight of matter againſt us, nor for themſelves.

VntoUnto p. 4.Anſw. 1. To let paſſe the name Priest, and that likeneſſe which is betweene their miniſtery and the popiſh See Treat. of the miniſt. of the Church of Eng. page 98, 99, &c.prieſthood, becauſe others already have ſufficiently handled the thing: I doe deny that they are ſuch Paſtors and teachers as are ſpoken of in Epheſ. 4. 11, 12. and have ſhewed the contrary from their owne principles.

2. Note this mans lightneſſe and inconſtancy. Sometime he ſtands for the juſtification of all their Miniſters, as here, and in pag. 10. &c. but otherwhile he will only defend thoſe which are qualified according to the law, and execute their office, as page 2. 5. 94, &c. Thus a man knowes not how to follow, nor where to finde him:Prov. 30. 18, 19.Prov 30:18Prov 30:19 As the way of an Eagle in the ayre, ſuch is the way of an adulterous woman: It is hid and cannot be knowne.

3. It is untruely affirmed, that their priests and Deacons doe exerciſe the proper and eſsentiall miniſterie of Paſtors and Teachers. For firſt, moſt of them, by their confeſſion,Pag. 15, 16, 43. are idle bellied Epicures, ſenceleſſe aſſes, and not one of twenty that can preach. 2. By their law, their Deacons are not to adminiſter the Sacraments, neither any of thoſe which are full Priests, but according to a Popiſh Leiturgy. 3. None of them, neither may, nor doe exerciſe Church-governement, though they acknowledge it an aſſenti… and proper part of their miniſterie.

To the 5, 6, 7. pages.Anſw. 1. Our queſtion is not of what ſhould, or may be in a Land, but of that which we know is by law eſtabliſhed and practiſed accordingly. 2. I cannot thinke that the Prelates have permitted the miniſtery p. 215of ſome, which never received ordination from the papiſts or themſelves: for though it may be poſſible, that one or two, may ſecretly paſſe without being made Prieſts by them, yet that they ſhould permit this thing, I am perſwaded he could never proove it.

3. He often taxeth M^r. Iohnſ. with abſurdeneſſe, but no man I thinke could paſſe him here. For if it ſhould be granted, that there was a Prelate which for love or money permitted the miniſtery, &c. doth it therefore follow, that the miniſtery of that Church, is any other, but of their Prelacie, Priesthood and Deaconry, as Mr. Iohnſon ſayth. For what if ſome have as much permiſſion under the Papacie, is not their miniſtery then of Prelacy, Prieſthood and Deaconry? Indeed ſo M^r. Bradſh. doth inferre, but with what wit or truth, let the Reader Iudge.

4. A man may be an unlawfull Miniſter, though he never received the Bb. ordination, viz. when he runs of his owne head, and is not elected, called and ordained by the free and common conſent of a true Church, and ſuch were thoſe of whom M^r. Bradſh. ſpeaketh, if there be any truth in his relation.

5. If ſome do ſwerve from ſome obſervances, which the Law requires, yet is not their calling hereby the more true and lawfull: for if Monkes and Friars do not keepe ſometimes all their rules and orders, yet are they notwithſtanding the divels and Popes officers, even ſo, &c.

6. Though their Law intend not, ſuch a proper prieſthood, as was in the Iewiſh Church, nor (as in all reſpects) p. 216is now under the Romiſh beast, yet this helpes nothing their cauſe, ſeeing it both tendeth and eſtabliſheth ſuch a miniſterie, as by their owne confeſſion is directly againſt the word of God:

Pag. 44. 45, 46.7. Touching their Parſons, Vicars, Stipe ndaries, Chaplins, &c. wee have prooved from their writings that theſe names and offices come wholly from the divell and Antichriſt: and therefore his pleading for Baal is altogether here unuſefull as to ſay, All is one kinde of miniſtery and in this reſpect they are Parſons, and in that reſpect, Vicars, &c. for, as much may a Papist ſay of their Parſons, Vicars, &c. and as true too. If therefore he would have juſtified theſe men, he ſhould firſt have manifeſted, that his brethren have notoriouſly ſlandred their miniſtery, & ſo have taken quite away their reaſons, by ſhewing better, and not needleſſely to bring in a tale, which neither helpes him, nor hurts us.

8. His concluſion is pi…tifull: for inſtead of ſatisfaction, he leaves his Reader more doubtfull then before: in regard of an exception which he makes thus, If they duely execute the ſame, meaning, the office of true Paſtors, now what, if they doe not this, as indeed they doe not, what be they then? To this he ſaith nothing: neither will I inferre any thinge, but leave it as a Quaere, to be anſwered by him, which ſhall next write in the behalfe of Mr. Bradſh.

To pag 7, 8, 9.Before I make anſwer unto the particular things in theſe pages, I will lay downe ſome generall obſervations, touching the manner of this mans writing, both here, and in the reſt of his booke. 1. Haveing nothing p. 217with any ſhew to object, like a bold ſophiſter, he makes a flat denialls of expreſſed truths, as thus: I ſay it is falſe, I deny it, &c. as if the weight of an argument were ſufficiently removed by empty denials, 2. His proofs are allwayes beggarly I ſayes, or ifs, and may be ſoes; and doth not in all his writing, either directly, or by ſound conſequence from the ſcripture, confirme any one thing, whereof he ſpeaketh. 3. Although in the courſe of his life, he made ſhew to be a great enimy of the Bb. and their traditions; yet now againſt us, he ſtandeth to maintaine the vileſt abominations in their Churches. 4. Such corruptions as the Nonconformists generally have condemned, he baſely here juſtifieth; and by the ſame carnall and corrupt reaſons, which the Prelates uſe to doe, ſo that his writing is not more againſt us, then againſt themſelves, and therefore it concerneth them as much as us, to ſet forth an anſwer unto it. 5. As Mr. Dayr. in his booke, hath ſhewed much ignorance, and contradiction; no leſſe hath he great hypocriſie, in pleading for ſuch evills; as ſome, which knew him, doe well know, that his judgement of them (at leaſt of many of them) was wholy otherwiſe.

It is true, the report goes, that he was not the proper author of it, but another did it, and gott him to father it▪ This may be ſo, and it is probable enough, notwithſtanding Mr. Brandſh. evill is not the leſſe, if he ſhould ſuffer any one, as the Aſſe did Balaam, to ride upon him, for to curſe the Iſrael of God. Now to anſwer the things particularly.

p. 218Anſw. 1. When we know what thoſe acceſſarie parts bee, which true Paſtors, and teachers may have of their offices, callings, and adminiſtrations, not ordained by Chriſt, we will ſpeak more of that point, in the meane time, they may doe well, to conſider, that they want not the acceſſarie only, but indeed the ſubſtanciall and eſſenciall parts of true offices, &c. & this they thēſelvs doe not barely ſay, but ſoundly prove: & to cōfute this, Mr. Bradſh. hath nothing in all his writing, and therefore their owne arguments muſt needs ſtand in force, untill they doe revoke them, and bring better to the contrary.

2. Whether the Prelates be ordinarie, or extraordinarie miniſters, it is not material, and therefore the diſtinction is idle, and impertinent; For if their office and See p. 34, 35calling be falſe, deviliſh, Antichristian, &c. as the Nonconformiſts ſay, we will give Mr. Bradſh. leave, to place them in what order or degree he will, and yet his cauſe ſhall be never the better by it: but obſerve, howſoever ſome time he undertakes to juſtifie their ſtanding; yet here by a wile, which he uſeth, they are left, to ſhift for themſelves.

3. He could not prove, when he was alive, that either the prastiſe of all the Preiſts in the Church of Rome, in all things was according to that conſtitution, or their conſtitution, according to their practiſe, or either of them anſwereable to the ſtrict termes of the Law. What then, might not he therefore conclude any thing generally againſt the unlawfullneſſe of their miniſtry? his wordes import poſitively no, but we are ſure yes; & p. 219ſo will every wiſe man I think (beſide himſelfe) affirm too. Notwithſtanding his Tenets uſually doe lead unto ſuch abſurdities.

4. He either, through ignorance, or deceit ſpeakes, beſides the preſent queſtion. For Mr. Iohnſ. to proove them falſe miniſters, mentioneth their calling and entrance, according to their Pontiſicall, now to this he ſaith nothing, but talkes of their practiſe: the which, if it ſhould be granted, to be otherwiſe then the Law requires, yet it is nothing to the purpoſe, for which he bringeth it.

Would it not make ſome men laugh, if they ſhould heare one, that is accuſed to be a baſtard: To maintaine the contrarie, by this reaſon, viz. becauſe he doth ſuch duties, as thoſe children doe, which are borne under wedlock. The thing which Mr. Iohnſon affirmeth from their owne writing, is, that their miniſterie begotten by the Prelates, is illegitimate and falſe; I ſay thoſe, which take their offices, and callings from them, are baſtardly miniſters. Now, marke (good reader) how handſomly Mr. Bradſh. makes an anſwere to it. He cannot prove (ſaith he) that the practiſe of all our miniſters, is in all things according to the conſtitution, &c. What then, yet ſeeing he proves your miniſterie by your owne confeſſion to be a Child of the Whore, **So is the Pope called by the Holy Ghoſt, in Rev. 17, 5Rev 17:5it muſt needs be ſtill a baſtard, whether the practiſe of it be good or evill.

5. I doe deny that thoſe administrations, which are performed by their Popiſh Canons, and booke of common prayer, are the maine, principall, and eſſentiall adminiſtrations, p. 220which Chriſt hath ordained. For firſt, theſe allow of no true Paſtors and Teachers. 2. Require the Sacraments to be unlawſully adminiſtred. Laſtly, command an idolatrous worſhip, and divelliſh diſcipline to be performed and executed in all their congregations.

In page 46. he ſayth, that the Prelates may well laugh at Mr. Iohnſons ſimplicity and ſillineſſe of wit, that thinkes to fright them with ſuch a bugbeare as this, &c. But may they not much more laugh at the writings, which his brethren have publiſhed againſt their Canons & ſervicebooke, P. 139, 140calling the former ſlaviſh Ordinances, lawleſſe, perilous, Popiſh, wicked, & damnable Canons, ſhamefull idolls, &c.P. 78. the later, a deviſed ſervice, the Maſſe in Engliſh, &c. But what of all this, if they will beleeve Mr. Bradſh. they need not be frighted with ſuch bugbeares, as theſe: For if it ſhould be granted (as it is only for reaſoning ſake, that he will doe this) that ſome thinges are in the Canons and booke aforeſaid, which were never ordained by Chriſt, yet the main, principal, and eſſencial adminiſtrations, which he commaundeth, are contayned in them.

Now, how much better had it beene, if this miſhappen thing, had had its mothers womb, for the grave, or beeing brought out, had been ever kept in ſome hole or darke place, where it ſhould never have ſeen any light, nor any mans eyes ſhould ever have looked upon it, then to ſerve in this ſort, which it doth; namelie, to ſtrengthen the handes of the wicked, greive the hearts of the righteous, & to diſcover their owne vile halting, & double dealing.

p. 221To pa. 10.Anſ. 1. Are the Princes of the earth bound by Gods Lawes to mainetaine the ordinary miniſtery of your aſſemblies? then have you from time to time, ſhamefully mocked and abuſed them, in craving ſo earneſtly for their aide, to have this ſame quite rooted out, and aboliſhed,1. Adm. and a right eſtabliſhed in the roome and place thereof. 2. The Dumb dogs, Caterpillers, and idle bellies never had a better Proctor then this man to plead for their unlawfull ſtanding. For he ſaith the Magistrate is bound to protect their miniſtery. But how can we beleeve him, ſeeing the Nonconformists teach otherwiſe, and lay downe unanſwerable arguments for the ſame: but as for him he gives none at all. If any ſhould ſay, He meanes not the bare Readers. I anſwer, He makes no diſtinction, nor exception, but ſpeakes generally, and indefinitely of the ordinary miniſtery of their Church aſſemblies. Beſide, the office and calling of theſe, is for nature and kinde the very ſame which the reſt of them have received. 3. I doe not ſo much admire, that he makes here ſome queſtion, whether there be any corruption, in and about their ministery. And that pag. 13. he thinkes needleſſe to ſpend any time, in juſtifying their Canons, as I wonder he had not downe right affirmed, that there are no faults at all in either of them.

For any one may ſee by his worke, that he meant not now to tie his conſcience ſhort, but would make a little bould with it for the preſent, and ſo he might fetch over a ſure blow upon us, he cared not though with every ſtroke he made wounds through the ſides of his brethren. 4. Seeing he confeſſeth, the idolatrous p. 222miniſterie of Antichriſt is to be aboliſhed. It muſt needs follow then, that theſe ſcriptures,††Rev. 17, 16. 1 Tim. 2, 2 Rom. 13, 4 Deut. 12, 2 P…a. 72, 1Rev 17:161 Tim 2:2Rom 13:4Deut 12:2 alleaged by Mr. Iohnſ. are neither abuſed nor prophaned: For ſuch is theirs. 1. Becauſe their enterance into the miniſtery, is by a Popiſh, and vnlawfull vocation. 2. The ſervice, which they are enjoyned to doe, is idolatrous and Antichriſtian. 3. The manner of performing it, is alſo unlawfull. For they are to weare ſurpluſſes, ſigne children in Baptiſme, with the ſigne of the Croſſe, kneel in the act of receaving the bread and wine in the Lords ſupper, &c. the which things are very idols. 4. Touching preaching, it is no eſſencial part of their miniſterie: For thoſe which neither doe it, nor can, are yet by their Law as true and Lawfull Miniſters, as any other among them. And all this, many Nonconformiſts of greater note, and zeale, then ever Mr. Bradſh. was, have by reaſon ſoundly manifeſted, and therefore he hath here ſhewed the more pride, and ignorance, thus ſtill to oppoſe them, haveing nothing wherewith to refute their effectual arguments; But to uſe his ownPag. 87. phraſe, a vomit of his coleworts, not twiſe, but twiſe twenty times ſodden, that is, bold I ſayes.

To pa. 13.Doth he ſpeake in earneſt, that the Prelacie, in and of it ſelf, may ſtand well enough with the Offices of the Apoſtles, Evangeliſts, Paſtors, &c. Truely I cannot think ſo, and therefore if I ſhould have ſeene ſuch a paſſage, in their writing againſt the bb. I would have admired at it; but ſeeing it is put forth onelie againſt the Separatists tuſh, why may it not paſſe, though it be as contrarie to their ſaying otherwhere, as light to darkeneſſe.

p. 223The author of the Preface, before the Freſh ſuit, againſt humaine Ceremonies, ſaith, he cannot abide dawbing. Now, I profeſſe in all good conſcience, I never ſaw to my remembrance, ſuch dawbing in any Conformiſt; and to ſay truth, it is a great deale worſe: And for proofe hereof, obſerve what they write in their writings againſt the Prelacie:

Syons plea p. 4.The Hierarchicall government cannot conſiſt in a nation with ſoundneſſe of doctrine, ſincerity of Gods worſhip, holineſſe of life, the glorious power of Chriſts government, nor with the proſperity and ſafety of the commonwealth.

Remove. imputations from the miniſt. of D. and Cor. p. 36Another ſaith: Not Paul himſelfe, if he were liveing, ſhould be permitted, to continue his function, if he would not conforme, as we are verily perſwaded he would not.

Mr. Vdal, Mr. Cartwright, Mr. Banes, Mr. Bates, and many others of them, have ſpoken to the ſame effect, and ſuffered for this baniſhment, ſpoyling of their goods, yea ſome of them loſſe of life. See alſo before in pag. 34, 35. 138.

It is reported of a certain Thratian, by name Leicurgus, how imagining that he was, hewing downe a vine with his hatchet, ſlew his owne ſonne, and maymedApoll. de Orig. Deorum l. 3. himſelfe. Much to this purpoſe is Mr: Bradſh. worke: for thinking to refute us, he quite overthrowes his brethrens cauſe, and his owne too. And whether this be not unreaſonable, let the judicious judge.

If Dr. Ames had not boaſted of this mans booke, I would not have touched it, becauſe I knew the bowels of it could poſſible not be opened, but it would cauſe an ill ſavour to ſome, in regard it containeth moſt p. 224vile and uncleane matter; but ſeeing they are neither affraid to publiſh ſuch ſtuffe to the world, nor aſhamed afterward to glory of it, they muſt give us leave to returne it home to them againe, howbeit to their loſſe & diſcredit too.††This is the book, which Mr. Pag. upbraides us, with, Ar. ag. Separ. p. 38.

To 14, 15 pag.Anſw. 1: Touching the corrupt ſhifts, which he uſeth, to juſtifie civil offices, in Ecclefiastical perſons, I will not ſpeak much of it, but doe deſire the reader to take knowledge, that the Nonconform.**T. C. the reſt of the ſecond replie, p. 1, to 31. Mr. Bates 73, 74, &c. Courſe of Conformitie, p. 20 affirme the thing to be utterly unlawfull, and give ſundry good reaſons for it. 2. Whereas he ſaith, the ſame authoritie that permits their miniſters to be civill Magistrats, doth permit them to be drunkards, &c. And by the ſame Law, that their miniſters may take vponupon them civill Magistracy; any true Pastors may take vponupon them the ſame authoritie. To this I ſay in his owne words, what a ſhameleſſe man is this to P. 11.affirme ſuch vntruths: for concerning the firſt, he ſlaundereth the ſtate, and in the other he puts the lie on the writings of his brethren, which teſtifie otherwiſe. 3. Whether they be made civil Magistrats, by the favour or grace of Princes, as he ſpeakes, or any other way, it is nothing to the purpoſe, ſeeing the thing in it ſelfe is every way, and alltogether unlawfull. 4. When they have proved themſelves to be true Pastors & Teachers, then there willbe a fitt place, to ſhew, whether the admitting of a civil office…, doe change the nature of a Church ministery or no.

To 16, 17 pag.Here Mr. Bradſh▪ in plaine termes, caſteth his brethren off, and good reaſon too, for he ſees, that either he muſt wholy renounce their Principles, or conclude p. 225with them, that their miniſtery is unlawfull. But he tels us, that he is not bound to their opinions. Well, neither I thinke are they to his. And now, ſeeing he, and they, are thus parted, let us a little conſider, whoſe of their opinions, in likelyhood, are the trueſt, and beſt, to be embraced. Touching the former, I mean the Nonconformiſts (to ſay nothing of their number, zeale, learning, knowledge, ſufferings for the truth, &c. In all which they farre exceeded him,) not onelyonly doe they affirme their miniſtery to be falſe; but as I have often ſaid, and alſo ſhewed out of their bookes, they prove by good arguments, the thing to be ſo. But as for Mr. Bradſh. he delivers his opinion upon his owne word, and if we will not take that, we muſt have nothing: nay truely many times we cannot have his word, ſor he turnes his tale ſo often forward and backward, as no man can tell where, when, or how to beleeve him: For inſtance, ſomtime all their miniſters are true with him, otherwhile they which be qualifyed only, & ſuch as duly execute their office. Thus he is like to one that hath a mad dog by the eare, and knowes not whether it be beſt to hold him, or let him goe.

For Mr. Barrow, & Mr. Greenwood, as we will not bind our conſciences to their opinions, ſo neither will we raſhly reject the grounds, which they have taught, and given reaſons of, unleſſe we be able to ſhew better, although Mr. Bradſh. hath dealt thus ilfavouredly with his brethren.

p. 226To Page 18, 19, 20, 21.There are fiſhes name Sepiae (as writers report) who leaſt they ſhould be taken of their purſuers, do caſt behinde them abundance of blacke matter, and ſo eſcape out of ſight. By ſuch a wile Mr. Bradſh. thinkes here to get away from us▪ for with his ſhifts; and trickes, he puts quite by the matter in hand. But to anſwer briefely. 1. There are many hundred Prieſts in the Land, which have no particular places to ſerve in: Is their miniſtery therefore unlawfull? Indeed he ſeemes here to grant it, as the reſt of his brethren doe. 2. Seeing not all (as he confeſſeth) but ſome of thoſe that have offices are bound to bee members of true viſible Churches. I will leave it in this place as a Quaere, Whether ſuch as neither are, nor by law are bound to be ſuch, are true Paſtors or no? for Mr. Bradſh. had ſo much forecaſt, as to ſay nothing about this thing; howbeit, it was the maine point in queſtion. 3. He takes it for granted, that their Churches are true, but brings no proofe for it: and except we will give him all this at once, there is nothing which he ſpeakes to any purpoſe in the world. But this we cannot give him, though he beg it ſhamefully,See before page 169. &c. becauſe the thing is otherwiſe, as their owne writings manifeſt. 4. What if their Prieſts be not in all points anſwerable to their lawes, are they then members of a falſe Church? indeed either his words cary ſuch a meaning, or to me they ſeeme non ſence. 5. Have not ſome in the Church of Rome diſpenſations to have more cures then one? Yes ſurely; now doe theſe ſpeciall diſpenſations make the action lawfull? ſuch an inference Mr. Bradſh. words have, or elſe the man talkes he knowes not p. 227what. 6. Howſoever the matter be not much, whether the Governement which the Bb. excerciſe in civil andRe moove imputat. from miniſt. of C. D. pag. 46 Syons plea pag. 4. Page 34, 35 147▪ Proteſtat▪ from Scot. pag. 88, 89, &c. Altare Damaſ…. 57, 58, &c. eccleſiaſticall caſes, doe impaire the dignity, authority, or ſupremacy of the civill Magiſtrate, ſeeing the ſame is unlawfull and Antichriſtian as we have before prooved. Notwithſtanding this thing is confidently affirmed of the Nonconformists, and they give ſundry inſtances thereof; and therefore the boldneſſe of this man is notorious, that he ſhould dare in this manner ſtill to dawbe up the vile things, which his brethren pull downe with both hands.

Some men in matters of controverſie, care not (as one ſaith)**Intus in animo perdant, modo victores abſcedant. Ambro…. To page 22, 23, 24, 25, 26. though they looſe the peace of conſcience, ſo they may gaine their ſuppoſed victory. If Mr▪ Bradſh. in judgement came the neareſt (as it is reported) of all the Nonconformiſts to the ſeparation; ſurely his ſoule could have ſmall comfort in this writing, it conteining nothing for the moſt part, but what is quite contrary to all their ſayings otherwhere.

To let paſſe his idle ſcoffing, as imputing it to a foreign neceſſarily attending that pen which undertakes the defence of ſuch a cauſe. In theſe pages he ſheweth himſelfe a miſerable informer and ſetler of the conſ…ience: for his counſell is much to this effect; ſo a man hold ſome thing, it is no matter what it be, nor how ungroundedly taken up, to anſwer his ifs and thoughs, and whats particularly.

Firſt, What if ſome (ſaith he) ſhall ſay that our Archbb. and Bb. have the Paſtors Office? Anſwere. p. 228Then they ſhall ſpeake untruely, or elſe you your ſelves doe beare falſe witneſſe againſt them; in affirming, that they are not‡‡Defen. Eccle. diſ. ag. Bridg. pag. 88, 89 Pref. Dio. Strif. of the Ch. Repr. Mart. Iun. pag. 12. Mr. Bates, pag. 55. Paſtors and Teachers, neither any true miniſters at all in the Church of God.

2. What, if one hold, they are not Paſtors, but named only ſo, metaphorically, as Princes are ſo called? &c. Anſw, This were to hold a thing, which is contrarie to their Law, and directly againſt their profeſſion and practiſe.

3. What, if one hold, that the miniſters of our particular congregations, are Pastors? Anſwere. He hath no reaſon for it, becauſe they have no true calling unto that office, neither doe performe the ſubſtanciall duties In title page of his Rej.thereof. When Dr. Burges ſtiled himſelfe Pastor of Sutton Coldfeild. Marke what Dr. Ames writes, in anſwere to it: It is (ſaith he) ſuch a name or title as by theFreſh ſuit l. 1▪ p. 5. Prelates rules, is not admitted, and our booke of ordination acknowledgeth no ſuch Pastors, from whence alſo it is, that in our convocation church language, we never heare of a Pastor of one Pariſh alone. None of our divines in the Synod of Dort would take to themſelves that title, though moſt othersReſp. ad Epiſt. 1. Ma. did in their ſubſcription. D. Andrewes, an Archbiſhop in esteeme, cenſureth this title for a Noveltie.

4. What though one hold, that our Archbb. and Bb. are Commiſsioners and viſitors, in cauſes Eccleſiaſticall, vnderunder the King. Anſw. The Magiſtrate hath no authority from God, to ſet up ſuch Officers, which ſhall take into their hands the rights and priviledges, belonging to the whole Church, and therefore whereas he attempteth, both here, and in pag. 35. 36. to juſtifie the Hierarchicall p. 229Government; and by this reaſon, viz. becauſe they take it from the King. I deſire the reader to compare with this baſe ſtuffe their former principles, and conſiderSee before p. 34, 35, 147. whether there be not probable reaſons, to think, that he ſinned herein fearefully againſt his knowledg and conſcience.

But to the point in hand, is not here witt, to diſpute by ifs & thoughs? Now, I am not of Mr. Bradſh▪ merry diſpoſitiō, to laugh at anothers fault: But truly, if a man were ſo diſpoſed, his ſillie, and childiſh wordes would give him often occaſion enough. For ſuppoſe, a Papiſt ſhould argue, as he doth, What if one ſhould hold, that our Archbb. and Bb. be Paſtors, or what &c. would not every one, that ſeeth it, ſay, there is in it, neither ryme, nor good reaſon. If therefore he had not meant a meere gulling and mocking of the world, he would not have taught men to hold this thing, and that, or what they would, without any reaſon and ground, but have ſhewed firſt by the word of God, that the opinions were lawfull and good, which he counſelled them to embrace.

After this, he tells us, that ſome of their Preiſts and Deacons, are Paſtors, & ſom Teachers; but I have proved the contrarie, and therfore both now, & hereafter doe purpoſe, to let his idle repetitions paſſe; onelyonly if I may without offence aſke a queſtion of them, ſeeing Mr. Bradſh. makes here this diſtinction, and doth oftentimes juſtifie the whole Clergy, by what names or titles ſoever they be called, I would willingly therefore p. 230know, of what kind their dumb miniſtery is, whether theſe S^r. Iohns be Pastors, or Teachers; for if they be true miniſters, one of theſe, they muſt be neceſſarily.

See before p. 48.Mr. Bradſh. haveing a great deſire to juſtifie their Deaconrie (howbeit, he knew that his brethren had condemned it for a falſe office, as they have it in their aſſemblies) demaundeth of us, whether Magiſtrates may not require ſome things of Teachers, not required by the Apoſtles? Anſw. Yes forſooth, but if they require, before a man ſhallbe a Teacher, that he enter into the miniſtery by an unſawfull and Popiſh vocation, and ſhall execute afterwards the ſame in an idolatrous manner, If he in all this doe obey them, he muſt needs therupon become no true miniſter; and ſuch is their cauſe, by their owne confeſſion; And therefore the queſtion, as he propoundeth it, is deceitfull and impertinent.

Laſtly, he excuſeth their Preiſts, which obey the Bb. what obedience (ſaith he) doe they promiſe to Prelates, but onelyonly in things, that they ſhall judge honeſt, and Lawfull, and not repugnant to the word of God. If this manner of arguing be good, what corruptions ſo abominable but may get contenance? VnderUnder ſuch pretences, any Heretick may maintaine the groſſeſt errours, which he holds, and practiſeth.

But to let paſſe any further anſwer, I deſire the readerSee Mr. Bradſh. 12 general Argumēts againſt Ceremonies. to take knowledge, that none of the Nonconformiſts have more effectually condemned their Popiſh Ceremonies than this man, for he hath by many arguments proved, that the uſe of them is very ſinfull: notwithſtanding p. 231behold his forehead, how in his writing here againſt us, he ſeeks by flattering ſpeaches, to juſtifie the very practiſe, which he profeſſeth in his writing againſt the Hierarchie, to be unlawful, idolatrous, antichriſtian.Remove. imput. frō the miniſt. of D. and C. p. 22. Freſh ſuit l. 2, p. 184. I may well uſe the words, which they ſpeake againſt the Conformiſts: We abhorre this hypocriſie, and leave ſuch temporiſing vntounto thoſe, which are content, to make themſelves the ſervants of men. But its true, as one ſaith: Extremitie drives men vntounto hard ſhifts.

To p. 27, 28, 29.Here Mr. Bradſh. beſtirreth himſelf, to prove their miniſtery good, by the Scribes and Phariſees, but this example will not helpe him in the leaſt.

For firſt, howſoever they had new names, and in many things were very corrupt, yet they ſate in Moyſes Chaire, **See Pareus in Mat. 23, v. 2, p. 578.Matt 23:2that is, came rightly, and Lawfully, to the Leviticall and Preiſtly Offices, which they executed in the church of God. But their miniſters (as we have ſhewed it under their owne hands) doe want this true calling, and therefore the compariſon holds not. It is poſſible, that two perſons, liveing in adultery, may in ſundry reſpects be no worſe, then ſome, which are truely married: Is their ſtate therefore one? not ſo; and why? becauſe the former wanted a right comming together: So in this cauſe, in ſomethings I am perſwaded, their miniſters are not worſe thā the Phariſees,‡‡Yet the Nonconf. ſay, they are worſe, ſee page 15, 16. as in pride, covetuouſnes, hypocryſie, perſecution of the ſaints, &c. yet nevertheleſſe, their ſtanding (in reſpect of the miniſtery) is not as good, as the Phariſees; becauſe (as I ſaid before) they have not a true calling thereto, which the others had.

p. 2322. I cannot thinke, that Mr. Bradſh. ſhould be ſo ignorant, as in this place he makes ſhew of. For his words import, that the abilitie, which the Phariſees had, to expound the Law, argued them true ministers: But this is falſe, for that; and indeed that only, which argued their office to be true, was the Lords institution, in ſetting the Tribe of Levi apart for the holy administratiōs; ††Exo, 28, … Mal, 2, 4▪ 5 Heb. 5, 4.Heb 5:4of which Family were theſe,‡‡Ioh. 1. 19 with 24.John 1:19 ſo many as were imployed, in, and about the ſervice of the ſanctuary.

3. If the preaching of the word and adminiſtration of the Sacraments be ſufficient, to argue a true miniſtery; then are not onelyonly many Papiſts Preiſts, but other, vile, Heretickes, and excommunicates, Lawfull Pastors and Teachers, for ſo much they can doe. The truth is, his arguing is no better, then if Ieroboams Preiſts ſhould thus have pleaded: Thoſe Preiſts, that teach IacobDeu. 33, 10Deut 33:10 Gods judgements, and Iſrael his Law, that put incenſe before the face of God, and burne incenſe upon his Altar, are true Preiſts; But theſe things doe we, therfore we are true Preiſts. If they ſhall ſay, the aſſumption is untrue, the like ſay we of their cauſe.

4. Howſoever, he often undertakes, the defence of all their miniſters, yet here he leaves the blinde Preiſts in the ditch: And indeed this is the manner uſually of them, they are ſo ſhifting up & downe, as a man knows not where there home is, nor when to find them there, for ſome time the whole Clergie is pleaded for: when they are beaten thence, then they fly to their beſt miniſters; when they cannot defend them any longer, then we have an howers talke of their gifts and ſervices. p. 233Thus as a man that ſitteth uneaſie, is ever ſtirring to & fro, till he be out of his place, ſo doe they ſhift, and ſhift, till they be cleane out of their arguments & matter: If they thinke, I ſpeake beyond my compaſſe, let them once pitch and inſiſt upon any one of theſe grounds, without ſtarting, joyne iſſue with us, and come to the particular, that ſo a directly named poſition, may receive a direct and ſpeciall reply.

To p. 30. 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37.Anſw. 1. There is little hope to finde any good here, ſeeing ſo manifeſt an untruth, is uttered in the beginning. He tels us (if we will beleeve him) that to communicate ſpiritually with the miniſters of Antichriſt, in holy things, is not to communicate in his Apoſtacie. If this be true, then unlawfull miniſters, may be lawfully communicated with; but this cannot be, for as it was unlawful to communicate with Corah, or with Vzziah, though they burnt true incenſe, or with Ieroboams Preiſts, though they offered true ſacrifices, ſo it is unlawfull to communicate, with a deviſed, or uſurped miniſtery, what things ſoever, (though good in themſelves,) are adminiſtred in, and by it. And this we formerlyPag▪ 27, 28 have proved fully.

2. It is certaine, that the miniſtery of Preiſts and Deacons, ordained by Antichriſt, is the miniſtery of his Apoſtacie, and not Chriſts, as he prophanely affirmeth: for he makes them not according to the inſtitution, preſcribed of God, but wholy after a wicked and diveliſh device of his owne braine; ſo that the ſame is a meere fruite of the Beaſt and falſe Prophet, and no accidental effect, but a moſt curſed thing, which doth as p. 234properly flow from his defection, as figgs from the figg-tree, or a child from the ſeed of the Parents. As for Luther, Huſſe, Wickliffe, and others, whereof he ſpeaketh, it is but an abſurd and childiſh begging of the queſtion, ſeeing it cannot be proved, that they received a lawfull ordinary miniſtery from the Church of Rome.

3. He ſaith, that the miniſterie of ſuch Prieſts and Deacons, which the Prelates ordaine, are the true ministers of Ieſus Chriſt. What every dumb dog, and all thoſe 60. 80. and a 100. which are made at a clap, and ſent forth as rouges and maſterleſſe ſervants, to get benefices, where then can, having no particular congregation? &c. Yea now all againe are juſtified: for he ſpeakes without exception… or limitation. If I were not unwilling to give occaſion unto the Bb. to inſult over theſe mē, I could hence manifeſt much bad dealing in them, but I will forbeare for the preſent, and doe referre the reader to their ow… Principles, ††1 Admo. p. 3. Offer for Confer. p. 2. N…ceſ▪ diſ. p 2…. T. C. …. 1, p. 193, Eccle. diſ. p. 40. Mr. Bates, p. 66. Demon. diſ. p. 24, 25. Def. Adm▪ p. 2.which is, that all Eccleſiaſticall officers ough… neceſſarily to be made by the free choiſe of the congregation wherein they are to adminiſter. This manner of ordination, they profeſſe, is only Lawfull, and none elſe. T… this aſcenteth Dr. Ames, and denies utterly, that the calling of their miniſters doth eſſencially depend upon the Bb▪ calling. Now, what the reaſon is, that they are thus mu table, it may eaſily be conceived, namely, the differen condition of the perſons▪ againſt whome they write for if a man ſhould read over their bookes, publiſher to the world, againſt the Hierarchie, he ſhould not (warrant you) heare them once there to ſay (as heer p. 235they doe) that it is lawfull for their Prelates, to ordaine miniſters; but then they will ſpeake out boldly, that this practiſe is wicked, and unwarrantable, yea and they can upon ſuch occaſions give good reaſons for it alſo.

Mr. Bradſh, in page 5. juſtifieth the miniſtery of ſuch among them, as are not ordained by the Bb. here he ſaith that theſe are the Miniſters of Ieſus Chriſt, which receive their miniſtery from the Bb. yea and from Antichriſt too, ſo that it ſeemes, if men will be Prieſts of their churches, they may come in any way, and it is no matter how they be ordained, nor who ordaines them, nor whether they be ordained or no: indeed his words imply no leſſe, and therefore he muſt needs be reaſonable. But if the Nonconformiſts ſhould have ſeene but halfe ſuch rotten ſtuffe in any. Conformiſts writings, they would have cried out, and that juſtly, Dawbing, dawbing.

4. He hath little cauſe to ſcoffe ſo idely as he doth, at M^r. Iohnſ. for the manner whereby he prooves his propoſitions, conſidering how he himſelfe never brings either Scriptures, Examples, Reaſons, or human Teſtimonies to confirme any one thing whereof he writeth. Hierom ſpeaketh of ſome who have their Syllogiſmes and argumentations not **Non in modo & figura, ſed in calcibus.in mood and figure but in their heeles. M^r. Bradſh. is not much unlike theſe; for wanting all proofe to make good the points which he boldly affirmeth, he lay…th about him with his heeles, by kicking the perſon whom he oppoſeth, with bitter and unchriſtian floutings. Notwithſtanding, the wiſedome p. 236of God is marvellouſly here to be ſeene, which ſuffered not this man to countenance his corrupt ſpeeches with any weight or ſhew of arguments, that ſo it might appeare, to be penned by him, rather for diſgrace of others, then defence of themſelves, & alſo that none by it might be deceived, but ſuch as are willing to pluck out their eyes, and to take one that is blinde for their guide and leader.

5. To let paſſe the unlawfull ſpeach, which they uſe in ordayning miniſters (i. e.) receive the holy Ghoſt, ‡‡T. C. …. 1, pag. 6…, &c. Altar. Da. pa. 165.and certaine frothy demaunds, which he moveth, to uphold (if he could) the Bb. Kingdom. The things not beeing worthy of anſwer. In pag. 38. he bewrayeth great ignorance, in not putting a difference betweene a miniſlerie, and the execution of it, for theſe are two distinct things, and therefore it is poſſible, that one may be a true Eccleſiaſtical Officer, and yet never doe the ſervices thereof; as for example, a woman is really a wife, immediately upon her marriage, I ſay, before ſhe performes any dutie; yea though it ſhould come to paſſe, that ſhe never performeth any. And therefore Mr. Bradſh. was deceived, to thinke, if one bee a falſe miniſter by ordination, that the adminiſtration of lawfull things, makes him true; for it is not ſo. If the Church of Iſrael ſhould have choſen ſome, not of Aarons houſe, but of other Tribes, to be Preists, and they had adminiſtred without exception, had theſe therefore been Lawfull Officers? in truth, according to his underſtanding they had; but herein he groſſely erred. Mr. Perkins **Expoſition upon Mat. 7. ver. 16, pag. 239. Laſt volu.Matt 7:16layes it downe, as one infallible note of a p. 237falſe Prophet, to come without a calling from God, and from the Church. I pray obſerve, although a man ſhould execute the ministerie of a Paſtor, notwithſtanding if he want a lawfull calling, he is ſtill a falſe miniſter in the judgement of this author, and I thinke of all wiſe men, beſide Mr. Bradſh.

Againe, if one be ordained a Paſtor, according to Christs inſtitution, he hath certainly a lawfull ministerie; howſoever, things afterward ſhall fall out; yea though he ſhould ſing Maſſe and Mattens, as he ſpeaketh; but he aſketh, if any, that is in his witts, will ſay ſo? yes, and prove it alſo, and if he himſelf had not wanted ſome witt in this point, he would not thus have confounded one thing ſo abſurdly with another▪ for as a perſon may be a ſervant or ſubject truely, & fully, and yet doe afterwards the actions of theeves, rebels, Traitors; ſo a man may take a true ministerie, by ordination, and yet both in life and doctrine doe wickedly, and deſerve juſtly to be depoſed.

But I geſſe, wherefore he hales-in theſe fooliſh poſitions; it is probable, he knew wel enough (what gloſes ſo ever he made ſometime to the contrarie) that their ordination of Preiſts & Deacons, by the Prelates, is (as his brethren ſay) unlawfull and Antichriſtian; and therefore he hoped now to juſtifie themſelves, in regard of their good ſervices: but this will not helpe him neither; for if their adminiſtrations were right (which are not) yet would their ministerie be ſtill falſe, ſo long as they doe retayne that falſe calling, which they tooke firſt of the Bb. they of the Pope, and he from the devill.††This is no otherwiſe, then according to their owne Tenets; for they ſay: Whatſoever commeth frō the Pope, which is antichriſt, commeth firſt from the devill.

p. 238To pag. 39 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47.Anſ. 1. As a man, when in his anſwers, he purpoſeth to deceive others, his manner is, to conceale that which ſhould give ſpecial light unto the matter: It is even ſo with Mr. Bradſh. that he might meerely gull the reader, he hides from him, whatſoever ſhould moſt ſerve for his true information, about the point in diſpute. In pag. 7. he tould us, that Paſtors and Teachers may have divers acceſſarie parts of their offices &c. not ordayned by Christ. Here he ſayth, that they may in divers, and ſundry particulars, diſobey Christ in his ordinances of worſhip and Government. Now he doth not expreſſe in either place, what theſe divers & particulars are, neither durſt he, I am perſwaded, for had he, we ſhould ſoone have joyned iſſue with him. But to leave him in the midſt of his idle words: this I ſay, when we underſtand once their meaning, they ſhall have our direct anſwer unto it. In the meane while, I doe entreat them, to conſider adviſedly of their owne Principles, about their Worſhip & Government. Touching the firſt,See before pag. 72, 78 it is (as they ſay) contained, in the booke of common prayer, the which was taken out of the vile Maſſebooke, full P. 138, 147of all blaſphemies▪ lyes, and abominations; and the other is taken wholy, and every part from the Pope.

2. To let paſſe many thinges, which he often affirmeth, without any proofe, I doe deſire, that they wil ſhew us, in their next reply, ſome good reaſon for that which he writeth in pag. 40. 41. viz. That ministers may execute the ministerie and Government of other Archb…. & Lordbiſhops beſides Christ, be Archdeacons, parſons, vicars, read ſtinted prayers out of a booke, and obſerve other humane p. 239inventions, and have their Church Government, according to Canons, Courts, &c. which were never appointed by Chriſt, and yet obey Christ in all the main, eſſen…iall, and ſubſtanciall points of his miniſtery, worſhip, and Government. If they can prove all this, I doe not ſee, but the controverſie may be eaſily taken up, between them and the Bb. only then, they have juſt cauſe to beg pardon of them, for their pleas against the Prelacie, and the many heavie accuſations, which they have put up, both to Princes & Parliaments, againſt them. But if they cannot (as I know they cannot) make good the thinge here avouched, then let it ly as a blot for ever upon their cauſe, for thruſting abroad ſuch deceivable traſh, eſpecially upon thoſe, which either were Authors of it, or have ſince juſtifyed ſo hypocriticall and ſhameleſſe a writing.

3. He once more here rejecteth, the Principles of the Nonconform▪ and bidds them, anſwere for themſelves, touching the Suits, which they have putt vp to the Parliaments, for the aboliſhing of their miniſtery. Now, the reaſon why I doe againe note it, is, becauſe the reader may ſee how impoſſible it is for any of them, to juſtify their ſtanding and writings too; the ſame beeing as unlike each to other, as good is to evill. For the Prelates laughing, whereof he ſpeakes in this place, I have mentioned it before; this only I add, that never did Mr. Iohnſ. by his ſimplicitie and ſillineſſe of witt, give that occaſion unto the Bb. of Mirth, as he hath juſtly of ſorrow to all his brethren, by his dawbing and rotten ſpeaches; for truely in the wordes of Iacob, they may p. 240Gen. 34, 30Gen 34:30ſay, he hath troubled us, to make us, to ſtinke among the inhabitants of the Land; yea to increaſe their greife, asPſa. 41. 9.Ps 41:9 David ſaid of Ahitophel, & Christ of Iudas, ſo may they ſpeake of him, our familiar freind, in whome we trusted, which did eat of our bread, hath lift vp his heele againſt vsus.

From pag. 48. to 67.Anſw. 1. Mr. Bradſh. ſayth, that there is no ordinary ministeriall office, which Chriſt hath given to his Church, but their miniſters either have, or by their Lawes ought to have the ſame. I have proved before, that this is untrue, and therefore it is not needfull that I ſhould make anſwere any more to his bold thredbare, I ſayes. But obſerve here (to uſe his owne wordes) what a jugling Pag. 52.method of reaſoning he hath gotten. Their miniſters have ſuch ordinary miniſteriall offices, &c. Why? becauſe by their Lawes they ought to have them. Now, may not a man, by the ſame manner of arguing, prove that there are no Theeves, Traitors, Whoremoungers, &c. within the Kings Dominion, in regard by the Lawes, every one ſhould be true, loyall, chaſt, &c. But this later, I thinke, would be laughed at of all, notwithſtanding to the very ſame effect, is only the other, or elſe it ſerves for no uſe at all, but to ſhew, that the man had more will to doe miſche…fe, then he had, either witt or ſkill to accompliſh the ſame.

2. I paſſe over againe his idle ſcoffing at Mr. Iohnſon, for quotation of many Scriptures. Indeed Mr. Bradſh. was careful to ſhunne this fault; for he hath not from the beginning, to the end of his book, brought one proofe from the word of God, to make good any one thinge p. 241whereof he ſpeaketh, but as if he were one of the illumated Fathers of the Familiſts, delivereth his yea & no alwayes upon his owne bare word.

3. Many greivous errours are bound up in this invective of M. Bradſh. but for lying here is one that ſurmounts them all,; namely, that the Prelates doe not thruſt them into a ministery, but leave them to be called and choſen by the people; or thoſe Patrons, vntounto whoſe fidelity the people, P. 56, 57, 58.have committed this charge. This (as I have ſhewed) is very falſe. And truely it is ſtrange to me, that they ſhould dare affirme, ſo knowne and apparent an untruth; for according to their law, profeſſion, and practiſe, whoſoever is ordained by the Bb. hath immediately upon his ordination all the eſſenciall and ſubſtancial parts of a miniſter, is (I ſay) as true in their underſtanding, as theſe, which have a people, or have bought benefices of their Patrons; yea although he ſhould never have any particular congregation, to adminiſter unto. Therefore welfare the Conform. for howſoever, their courſes are ſtarke naught, yet they will owne their errours, and not ſhift them off (as theſe doe) by groundleſſe deviſes, the which they can no more prove, then that there is a man in the moone. They have laboured theſe many yeares, to get away this power of making miniſters from the Bb. But ſeeing they are now out of all hope to gaine it, they perſwade the people, that it is only but a leave & libertie, which the Prelates grant; And touching the miniſtery itſelfe, they have it elſe where. Oh, horrible mocking and abuſing of the world! a meere invention of their owne, haveing p. 242no ſhew or coulour of truth in it.

4. If the Prelates doe not put them into a miniſtery, but leave them to be called or choſen by the Patrons, then it muſt follow neceſſarily, that either they are made miniſters by thoſe Patrons, or elſe they are none at all. But this I will leave as another Qu…re. Moreover, becauſe my deſire is, to come ſpeedily unto ſome particulars with them. I doe therefore demaund ſome good proofe, for the thinges which this bold man here affirmeth. Firſt, that the people have committed this charge, vntounto the fidelity of Patrons. 2. If they have, whether the thing be lawfull or no? And to give the reader in the mean time ſome information about the point, this I would have him to know, that howſoeverAn…tomy of Cere. made by Mr. Sprint before defore def. of Pet. to the K. Learn. diſcourſ. of▪ Eccl. Gov. p. 125. M. Bright. on Rev. 3, p. 194, Edit. 3. Alt. Dam. p. 170.Rev 3 here againſt us, they plead for theſe Patrons, yet in their writings againſt the Prelats, they tell quite another tale, for there they call them all Latrons, and profeſſe their places to be unlawfull and wicked; and give many worthy reaſons thereof. And no doubt, this is true, which they ſay; for indeed, the bondage is intollerable, which the poore enſlaved people ſuffer at theſe mens hands. If ſome one in a Pariſh, had entayled to him and to his heires for ever, the power of appointing huſbands and wives to all the people therein, the ſlavery were unſufferable, although in a matter of a civill nature: but how much more then unſpeakably great is their ſin, which looſe this ſpiritual freedome! And greater thoſe Patrons, which keepe it: and greateſt Mr. Bradſh. and ſuch fellowes, who labour what they can, to maintaine ſo vile & wicked a thing.

p. 2435. Seeing he aſketh what errours we can prove in their Church, and is ſo audatious, as to affirm, that thoſe ſet downe by Mr: Iohſ. ††An anſw. to Mr. H. Iacob. his defen. of the Chur. and miniſt. of Eng. page 63, 64. A treatiſe of the miniſt. of the church of Eng. p. 10, 11, 12, &c.are pretended. I will therefore give in ſom particulars (for it were impoſſible to name them all) publiſhed under their owne handes, and profeſſed of them to be the poyſonſome Leaven of Antichriſt.**M. Gilby in the table, Luk. 22, 2…Luke 22:2

1. The Popiſh names, and offices of Archbiſhops. 2. Lord biſhops. 3. Their titles of Primacy, Lords grace, &c. contrarie to the commaundement of Chriſt. 4. Their viſitations▪ and power, which they exerciſe over their brethren. 5. Their Lordly Dominion, revenues, and retinew. 6. Their black Chym…re, or ſleeveleſſe coat, put vponupon the fine white rochet, with other Popiſh apparel. 7. Chauncellours. 8. Deanes. 9. Subdeanes. 10. Archdeacons. 11. Officials. 12. Chaunters. 13. Commiſſaries. 14. Prebendaries. 15. Apparitors. 16. Parſons. 17. Vicars. 18. Pariſh Preiſts. 19. Idle readers. 20. Vagabound ministers of no place. 21. Chapleynes. 21. Canons. 22. Petty Canons. 23. Virgerers. 24. Rector Chori. 25. Epistlers. 26. Goſpellars. 27. Queristers men and boyes. 28. Singing Clarkes. 29. Organiſts. 30. Organ blowers. 31. Beadmen. 32. Sextins. 33. Impropiations. 34. Miniſters, not made, neither by election, vocation, nor aprobation, agreable to Gods word. 35. Deacons, made to other purpoſes than the ſcriptures appointe. 36. The horned cap. 37. The tippet. 38. Surpl…ſſes. 39. Copes in great churches. 40. The t…mporall offices of Eccleſiaſticall perſous. 41. A dumb miniſtery. 42. The Popes accurſed Canon Law. 43. The Prelates articles & p. 244injunctions from time to time newly deviſed. 44. The Church wardens eath, to preſent to their courts, all the offences, faults, and defaults, committed in their Pariſhes against the aforeſaid articles. &c. 45. The court of faculties, from whence are had diſpenſations, licences, tolerations, &c. 46. Diſpenſations, to eat fleſh, at their times forbidden. 47. And licences, to marie in any time of the year, and in priviledged places, by means wherof, many are maried without their parēts knowledg, or conſent, yea and many ſtolen oftimes from their Freinds, and ſo maried. 48. Diſpenſations for boyes and dolts, to have benefices. 49. Diſpenſations for nonreſidents. 50. & for plurality of benefices, as they haveing of 2. 3. 4. or more To…quot, as many as a man will have, or can get. 51. Their institutions, inductions, proxes, &c. 52. Abſolving the dead dying excommunicate, before they can have (as they call it) Christian burial. 51. Houſeling the ſicke. 52. Private Baptiſme. 53. Godfathers, and Godmothers. 54. The ring in marriage. 55. Biſhopping of children. 55. Churching of wemen. 56. Prayer over the dead. 57. Lords ſupper to be received kneeling. 58. Lent. fast. 59. Croſſe in Baptiſme. 60. Hallow eves. 61. Imbring dayes. 62. Frydayes and Saterdayes faſt. 63. The hallowed font. 63. Marriage forbidden at certaine ſeaſons of the yeare. 64. The oath ex officio. 65. Apccripha bookes, which have in them errours, lies, blaſphemies, magick, contradiction to the Canonical ſcriptures. 66. an Antichriſtian diſcipline. 67. Private communion. 68. Their adminiſtring of it, not with the words of Christs inſtitution, but with other, taken out of the Popes Portuis. 69. Reading homilies. 70. Corrupting the ſcriptures, in miſtranſlating many places, adding to the text, and leaveing p. 245quite out many parts thereof.

Many ſcore of vile errours, beſides theſe, I could name, from their writings, but this is enough for the time. Only I requeſt the reader, to obſerve the bad dealing, which is here ſhewed. The corruptions, which Mr. Iohnſon mentioneth in his trea…iſes, to be in the church of England, are only ſuch, which he tooke out of their owne bookes.††Namely, the Admonition to the Parliament, sold, sold. Bar. Tabl. T. C. his firſt and ſecond reply. Neceſ. diſ. Yet ſee, how they will beare now the world in hand, that theſe are but pretended matters, when indeed (as I ſaid) they are only their owne Principles, ſet forth by their owne hands, and juſtifyed ſtill upon all occaſions, when they deal againſt the Hierarchie. It ſeemes therefore they are not willing, that any, ſaving themſelves, ſhould ſay, that their Bb. their Courts, Canons, Officers, Ceremonies, Service, &c. is Antichriſtian and unlawfull; for if we ſay but word for word the ſame, which they ſay before us: They cry out pretended errours, and yet the things are true when they ſpeake them. Now, if this be not vnreaſonable dawbing, I know not what is.

But he aſketh, how we can prove, that theſe things are taught in their Churches? If a Papiſt ſhould have thus replyed, unto one, which had written againſt their tranſubſtantiation, images, holy water, &c. it would have been counted an idle and fooliſh put off; for what if they be not allwayes taught, yet theſe are their ſinnes, in regard they both profeſſe and doe them, and have them eſtabliſhed by Law, in their congregations.

p. 246The like may be ſaid of the errours, fore named, as authority commaunds them, ſo they are conſtantly practiſed, and upon all occaſions defended publikely & privately. Beſides, if any one ſhall open his mouth, to ſhew the evill of them, he is ſubject to be immediately ſil…need, ſuſpended, excommunicated by the Lords, the Prelates. And to prove this, let their terrible Canons beare witneſſe; for thus it is enacted:

Canon. 4.Whoſoever ſhall hereafter affirme, that the form of Gods worſhip in the Church of England, eſtabliſhed by law, and conteyned in the book of Common prayer, &c. is a corrupt, ſuperstitious, or vnlawfull worſhip of God, or conteyneth any thing in it, that is repugnant to the ſcriptures; let him be excommunicated ipſo facto, and not restored, but by the Biſhop of the place, or Archbiſhop, after his repentance and publick revocation of ſuch his wicked errours.

Canon. 6.Whoſoever ſhall hereafter affirme, that the rites and ceremonies of the Church of England, by law eſtabliſhed, are wicked, Antichriſtian, or ſuperſtitious, or ſuch as being commaunded by lawfull authority, men who are zealouſly and godly affected, may not with any good conſcience approve them, vſe them, or as occaſion requireth, ſubſcribe vntounto them; let him be excommunicated ipſo facto, and not reſtored vntill be p. 247repent; and publickly revoke ſuch his wicked errours.

Canon. 7.Whoſoever ſhall hereafter affirm, that the government of the Church of England, vnderunder his Majestie, by Archbiſhops, Biſhops, Deanes, Archdeacons, and the reſt that doe beare office in the ſame, is Antichriſtian, or repugnant to the word of God; let him be excommunicated ipſo facto, and ſo continue, vntill be repent and publickly revoke ſuch his wicked errours.

Canon, 8.Whoſoever ſhall here after affirm, or teach, that the form and manner of making and conſecrating Biſhops, Prieſts, and Deacons, conteyneth any thing in it, that is repugnant to the word of God, &c. let him be excommunicated ipſo facto not to be reſtored, vntill he repent and publickly revoke ſuch his wicked errours.

6. Where he demaundeth, what one truth of religion we can name, that is not, or hath not beene (when juſt occaſion hath been offered) taught by ſome of their miniſters? Although this be not much materiall, touching the point in controverſie, ſeeing none of them teach true doctrine, but in a falſe and Antichriſtian calling, which is utterly unlawfull to be done; notwithſtanding if we will beleeve the Nonconform he had ſmall cauſe to bragg thus of their preaching. For firſt, their miniſters p. 2482 Admon. p. 47. Aſſer. Chriſtian. Ch. pol. 236.for the moſt part are ignorant aſses, and loytering idle bellyed Epicures, which either cannot, or doe not teach at all. 2. A number of thoſe, which doe, are prophane, and heatheniſh Oratours, that thinke, all the grace of preaching lyeth in affected eloquence, in fond Fables, to make their hearers laugh, or in oſtentation of learning of the latin, their Greek, and Hebrew tongue, and of their great reading 2 Admon. p. 52.of antiquities: when God knoweth moſt of them, have little further matter, then is in the in the infinite volumes of common places, and apothegmes called to their hands. 3. Howſoever ſome of them deliver many ſound truths, **Out of their own mouth, they condemne many times their ſinfull practiſes. 1 Sam. 12, 51 Sam 12:5yet they doe not lay the axe to the root of the tree, I mean, ſeeke to ſuppreſſe ſuch evills, as raigne moſt among them. We would repute that Phiſitian unwiſe, which hath a patient under cure ſicke of a great fever, and he gives him a medicine, which ſerves only to heale the gout or dropſie. Now, in truth, ſuch vnwiſe Phiſitians are the beſt of them: for the main diſeaſe, which cleaves to the foule of the people, is falſe worſhip. But what courſe take they about it? Thus they doe: they adminiſter good things, to purge out pride, drunkenneſſe, &c. But leave all the while this Capitall diſeaſe alone, by which meanes many perſons periſh, and are utterly caſt away.

Now, theſe have not the Prophets for an exāple: for it is marvelous obſervable, when the ten Tribes fell away from the true worſhip of God, that all thoſe Prophets, whome the Lord then ſent early, and late after them, applyed their doctrines even alltogether (as it were) againſt the ſinnes of Dan and p. 249Bethell: ††Read the Propheſies of Hoſea, Ioel, Amos, and Michea, who were Prophets, eſpecially ray ſed up, to recover that people.as the ſpiritual ſickneſſe of Iſrael was idolatry, ſo they gave them conſtantly ſuch ſouveraigne medecines, as ſerved beſt to cure the ſame; And indeed this courſe of teaching is onelyonly profitable: for as a ſmall ſtroake downe-right upon the naile, is better then a thouſand beſides it: Even ſo, a little home matter, againſt the preſent evils of the people; as namely, their deviſed ſervice, falſe ministery, Antichriſtian Government, &c, would profit them much more, then all their lowd & long crying out, of judgement, judgement; only againſt ſwearers, drunkards, uſurers, whoremoungers, &c. becauſe the former faults are more generally committed, and have taken deeper roote in the hearts of old and young.

7. Concerning the defence, which he makes for reading their booke of Articles and Canons in the church, a few words will ſerve in anſwer to it. 1. If it were true, which he ſaith, that they doe not this thing miniſtrially, yet their fault is not the leſſe. But he ſpeaketh falſely herein, for this is laid upon them as a proper part of their Office; and none elſe but they, by their Law, either doe, or may doe the ſame. 2. If they doe not teach them for truths, then it muſt be for lies, and errours; if ſo, their evill is the greater, and proportionable thereunto, without repentance, will Gods vengeance be upon them for it. 3. His anſwere here, is quite beſide the point▪ and he ſeekes meerly to cozen the reader; that which Mr. Iohnſon mentioneth, is their Articles & Canons, very vile and wicked things by their owne confeſſion; To this he replyeth: may not a man in p. 250the weakeneſſe of his judgement and in infirmity, at his firſt entrance, into a calling, conforme, and ſubſcribe to ſome things, not ſo warrantable and true, &c. Note how punctually he ſpeakes, and comes up, as neere to the matter, as Yorke is to the Lands end, a man in the weakeneſse of his judgement, &c. may doe ſome thing, &c. Ergo, he may conforme to the damnable Canons, and articles, read them to the people, &c. By the ſame manner of arguing▪ he may be a …ew, a Turke, a Heathen▪ any thing. And not only in this place, but ſuch ſenceleſſe ſhifts are common with him, throughout the booke; for whereas it is proved in Mr. Iohnſons writing, that their miniſtery is …nlawfull & Antichristian, becauſe neither their Offices, calling, nor adminiſtration, is according to Gods Word, but (as they ſay themſelves) all taken from Antichrist. He childiſhly tells us, that true Paſtors & Teachers may want ſome acceſſarie parts of their Offices, &c. which anſwereth nothing to the point; nor is more to any purpoſe, then if a convicted traitor would ſeek to prove his cauſe, to be otherwiſe, for that he wants ſom acceſſarie parts of a true ſubject. 4. Touching the diſtinction which he puts betweene reading the Canons to the people, and not teaching the …rrours contained in them. I ſhall leave it, as another Demaund: how they can proove, that theſe falſhoods and lies may be read in the manner that they are, and yet be neither taught nor justifyed?

From pa. 68, to 83.Anſw. 1. If it be vnlawfull (as he ſayth) outwardly, and but in appearance to joyne with Idolaters in their Idolatry, then hath he ſhewed himſeIfe all this while an p. 251vnreaſonable man, to pe…ſwade us to returne againe unto their ſervice, conſidering if we ſhould, it were upon their owne grounds, to joyne with Idolaters in Idalatry; but this we dare not doe, neither I thinke would they, if they did feare the Lord and his righteons judgments, as they ſhould, and mind adviſedly their owne writings. They have a long time beene named Profeſſours, and fitly ſo: for truely, their profeſſion is good,††When they write againſt the Prelates. and therefore in this, they and we doe well accord, as I have before ſhewed: But thoſe, which willbe Chriſtians indeed, muſt be more than Profeſſours, to weet, practiſers, and doers of all the Lords commaundements, ſo farre as they know, according to their power & abilitie.

2. I would know, what ſcriptures there are, which doe witneſſe, that there was falſe worſhip in the Iewiſh Synagogues, and of what kind it was, and proofe alſo that Chriſt was preſent, where, and when the ſame was practiſed. Theſe Doctrines we finde often in their bookes againſt us, but to this day never ſaw their reaſons for them; and therefore we are perſwaded, they are meerely their owne dreames, purpoſely taken up, to countenance by them, if they could, their inſincere walking.

3. I cannot ſee what profit any reader can have by Mr. Bradſh. writing; for whofoever deſires to know what miniſters are true among them: Firſt, he muſt (if he will follow his direction) ſearch their Lawes, to know what is their preſ…rib…d about this thing; afterward, make diligent inquirie of the true meaning therof, p. 252then goe among the Clergy, to examin, whoſe office, calling, and adminiſtration, is according to the Law and the intent of it. **Quaere. To whom muſt men goe, to know the true meading of the Law.Now, is not he vnreaſonable, to put poore people upon ſuch hard taſkes; notwithſtanding unleſſe they doe all this, they are as farre to ſeeke in the thing, as ever they were; for any ſatisfaction he gives them; But no doubt, if Mr. Bradſh. had had a good cauſe in hand, he would have referred his reader to the Prophets, Chriſt, & his Apostles, and not uſed ſuch carnal & idle talke.

4. He ſaith, it is lawfull to communicate in that Worſhip Where the Ceremonies are vſed; but we cannot beleeve him, for his brethren both affirm, and prove the contrary. And here now is a fiſt place, to write downe the wordes, whereof mention was made in page 99. partly, becauſe the author is a principal Nonconformiſt, and partly to diſcover the raſhneſſe and folly of this inconſiderate man, which durſt without any reaſon, (more then boldneſſe) ſtill juſtifie the very things, which his brethren, by many ſound Arguments, have manifeſted to be evil and unlawfull. Thus he writes:

A diſpute upō communicating, at cō fuled cō munions, pag. 68, 69, &c.The ſitter is acceſſorie to the ſinne of the kneeler. Firſt, he endureth the kneeler by his preſence, and maketh him thinke, that his kneeling is neither ſcandalous nor idolatrous. You ſay, your ſitting condemneth his kneeling. No ſuch matter. But in communicating with him, you approve it as indifferent, as when ye ſit in time of prayer after Sermon, When another is kneeling, or standing▪ For ſhall you communicate With an idolater in the very p. 253act of his Idolatrie? and not be acceſſarie in countenancing it With your preſence. If you doe damne it as ſcandalous, or idolatrous, Why communicate you with bim? If you build vp that, which you deſtroyed, you make your ſelfe a ireſpaſſer. The Apoſtle forbiddeth the Corinthians to converſe, or eate With a brother idolater, 1. Corinth. 5. and yet you will eate and drinke With him, When he is committing the very act. The Apoſtle forbiddeth not ſocietie With him in publick Aſſemblies, but onelyonly in private, and Where he committeth the act, till he be reclaimed. Next, the communicant with the kneeler caſteth himſelfe into tentation, by ſetting before him an evill example, Which may induce him to doe the like, eſpecially, if the kneeler be a perſon of any credit and countenance. Many are diſquieted With the ſight of a monſter, or carcaſſe many moneths after. It is an evill token, When you can be ſo Well content to ſee ſuch a monſter in our Kirk, and your heart not riſe Within you. If you ſhould preſent your ſolfe to the Maſſe in the ſame manner, and With the ſame liberty, custome would ſo harden the heart, that in the end you would halt With the lame, and conforme in every point. It will creepe like a Ring-Worme: ſeemeth it now tollerable, the next day it Will ſeeme holy, and the third day neceſſa…ie. So bewitching ſinnes are idolatry and ſuperſtition. Thirdly, you are partaker of an Idoll feaſt. Start not at this I ſay: for the Sacrament of the Lords Supper may be turned into an idoll feast, and hath been a more abhominable feaſt then ever Was any among the Heathens. p. 254And howbeit, there may be ſome difference betwixt the Formalists, and the Papiſts, ariſing upon the diverſitie of inward opinions and conceits of Chriſts reall preſence in the Elements, yet if both their gestures be idolatrous in theirAuguſt. hom. de Paſtor. owne kindes, the Lords Supper is made an idoll feast. Non ad diabolum pertinet quis iſto, vel illo modo erret, omnes errantes vult quibuſlibet erroribus. It is nothing to the Devill, whether a man erre this way, or that way whatſoever way they erre, all that be in errour, he ſeeketh to be his. Fourthly, the communicant advanceth this innovation, and ſetteth forward this groſſe corruption by his preſence and communicating with the kneeler. For if the kneeler… were left to themſelves, they would be aſhamed of themſelves▪ whereas now they are comforted, and hardened in their ſinne, and ſome follow their example. Fides pura Hieron. ad Ioannē Hieroſol.moram non patitur ut apparueri… ſcorpius, illico conterendus eſt. Pure faith ſuffereth no delayes. As ſoon as the the ſcorpion appeares, it is to be bruiſed ſaith Hierom. Fourthly, a confuſion of geſtures lawfull, and vnlawfull, is brought into the Lords table, ſome ſitting like ghueſts at a Feast, as Christ and his Apoſtles ſate; others like ſupplicants kneeling and adoring vponupon the knees. This confuſion is not like that varietie of geſture, in time of prayer, when ſome ſitte, ſome ſtande, ſome kneele. For all the three gestures are there indifferent. But not ſo heere.

If men are polluted, by receiving the Sacrament with thoſe which kneel, then much more, when withall they take it where the ſame is adminiſtred, by an unlawfull perſon, and according to a preſcript form…, p. 255culled out of the blaſphemous Maſſebooke. And this is their preſent cauſe, by their owne confeſſion; I wiſh therefore, they would take due conſideration of it, and ſpeedily reforme themſelves herein. They profeſſe to be eſpouſed unto Chriſt: Now, marke the ſimilitude, if a betrothed virgin, before the day appointed for marriage, ſhould proſtrate her body to a ſtranger, ſhe diſables herſelfe for ever hereby from being his wiſe: Their marriag day, they make account, ſhalbe celebrated in Heaven; But now, if in the mean while, they defile their ſoules and bodies with the uncleane acts of Idolatry, what reaſon have they to think, that they ſhal enjoy the ſweet comfort, and pleaſure of ſo heavenly & bleſſed a huſband.

From pag. 84, to 92.Anſw: 1. Though it ſhould be granted, that in a true conſtituted Church ſome matters incerely Eccleſiaſtical may be impoſed through humane ſrailty; yet this helpethSee chap. 2. Sect. 2, 4 and ch. 3. Sect. 2, ch. 1, Sect. 2 4. their cauſe nothing at all; in regard, that a falſe worſhip, an Antichriſtian Hierarchy, or Church Government, and unlawfull miniſtery therefrom derived, is impoſed upon, and by the people ſlaviſhly ſubmitted unto.

2. Though every humane Ordinance be not of that nature, as to make that Church and Miniſtery falſe, where it is vſed; yet ſome are, or elſe there are no falſe Churches and Miniſters in the world; and ſuch humane Ordinances, there be many in their Pariſh Aſſemblies, as from their owne Principles, we have ſhewed.

3. Though it were generally granted of all, that thoſes Churches and Miniſteries are to be communicated p. 256with all that have ſome thing in, or appertaining to the conſtitution thereof not inſtituted by Chriſt; yet it will not thence follow, that we may with ſuch, as in their conſtitution were wholy falſe; but ſuch are theirs.

4. Grant this, that all are not falſe Churches, which doe not, or by the Laws of man are not ſuffered to vſe their power. Notwithſtanding ſuch congregations, as doe altogetherP. 149, &c. want this power, and ſtand under that, which was taken every part from the Devill & Antichriſt, are certainly falſe, and ſo not to be communicated with all; And this is their preſent ſtate, if they ſpeake truely themſelves.

5. Admitt, that thoſe may be true Paſtors, who are outwardly by mans Lawes ſubjected to a ſuperiour Eccleſiaſtical Officer. **But for this thing I ſhall exſpect, to ſee ſome proofe.Yet can it not hence be concluded, that their miniſters are true, ſeeing neither their Offices, calling, adminiſtrations, &c. are agreable to the word of God.

6. If the Offices of Provincial and Dioceſan Biſhops be contrarie to the Scripture, then neceſſarily that miniſtery, which is derived from it, muſt be ſo alſo. And this concluſion the Papiſts have drawne from the writings A detection of divers notable untruths, &c. p. 188, &c.of the Conformiſts. If our Engliſh Prelates be no true Biſhops, then ſurely neither be the Preiſts, or Miniſters, or Deacons, that be ordained by them; and ſo conſequently the congregation of England, is not the true Church of Christ.

Here we have againe much rude ſcoffing, and ſuch crowing (to uſe his owne termes) as if he were ſome p. 257cock of the game, that hath picked out the eyes, and broken the neckes of all that have beene ſet againſt him. The propoſition (ſayth he) is falſe, the Aſſumption is falſe, the conſequence is falſe. But for proofe, a man may finde aſſoon a needle in a bottle of hay, as any for the things which he boldly denyeth. Moreover, the points in controverſy, which are of greateſt weight, & moment, he either puts quite off, by a fine trick, they P. 83, 88.need no anſwer, or elſe anſwereth to them, beſides the matter. For an inſtance to this purpoſe, writeth Mr. Iohnſon: Every true viſible Church of Chriſt, or ordinary Aſſemblie of the faithfull▪ hath by Chriſts ordinance power in it ſelfe immediately vnderunder Chriſt, to elect and ordaine, deprive, and depoſe their miniſters, and to execute all other Eccleſiaſtical Cenſures. But none of the Pariſh Aſsemblies of England have ſuch power: Therefore they are not true viſible Churches of Christ.

Both parts of this reaſon he proves from their owne writings; now marke his reply to it: All are not falſe Churches, which doe not vſe this power, &c. And is not this (thinke ye) wittily anſwered? We ſay from their Principles, that a true Church cannot be without power; But their Churches are wholy without it. For anſwere, he tels us, a true Church m…y want the vſe of it. We ſay ſo too. But doth it follow, becauſe a man in a ſound, hath not the uſe for the time, of that life, which is in him; therfore one may be quite without life & yet not dead. To this effect he reaſoneth, or elſe (as Paul ſayth of1 Tim. 1, 71 Tim 1:7 ſom) he underſtood not what he ſaid, nor wherof he affirmed, but ſpake evil of the things which he knew not.Iud. 10.Judg 10

Anſw. … p. 92. 100.Mr. Bradſh▪ having uſed all the witt and ſkill he had to refute the former Reaſons: in theſe pag. in a mocking contradiction of Mr. Iohnſon, he undertakes to prove that the publick ministery of the Church Aſſemblies of England, is true and lawfull. I have neither time nor mind, to follow him in his vagaries, & idle repetitions, but will ſet downe, in few wordes, the ſumme of his long talke, and give anſwer to it breifly. Firſt, thus he ſayth:

To have ſuch gifts, as Chriſt aſcended to heaven, for the worke of his miniſtery, to be outwardly called to that worke, by ſuch a Church as profeſſeth the fundamentall points of the Goſpell; to instruct the people committed to their charge, in the Doctrine of the Law and Goſpell: to adminiſter vntounto them the holy Sacraments of Christ, and to be their mo…th in prayer vntounto God are all the things eſſencial, appertaining to the office of true Paſtors and Teachers. Such is the miniſtery of our aſſemblies.

Howſoever. I will not contend much with him about the Propoſition, which is lame to the ground; and a farre better might have beene framed breifly thus: To have ſuch an office, as Christ in his Testament hath given to his Church; a lawfull calling and enterance therevnto, and a lawfull administration thereof, according to the ſaid Teſtament, are all the eſſencial, &c.

The Aſſumption is falſe. 1. Their miniſters have not the gifts, whereof he ſpeaketh, and ſo we have manifeſted from their owne writings. 2. I doe denie, that their Bb. of whome they take their miniſtery, arePſa. 26, 5.Ps 26:5 a Church in any ſence, ſaving the malignant, and therefore p. 259if all the reſt were granted, yet hence would his whole argument (like the unwiſe mans houſe) fall toMat. 7.Matt 7 the ground. 3. Though they instruct the people in ſome Doctrines of the Law and Goſpell, as doe Papiſts & all other Hereticks; notwithſtanding the reading of the Servicebooke, in forme and manner, the celebrating of marriage, Churching of women, burying of the dead, conformity, and ſubſcription, are more eſſencial to their miniſtery, & more neceſſarily required by the Lawes of their Church, then preaching either of the Law and Goſpell is. And ſo much Mr. Bradſh. elſewhere affirmeth: Thoſe that yeeld to Ceremonies, need not preach at all in their Churches, except they will, no nor doe any other part of divine ſervice, if they will maintaine a Curate, that will keepe the Ceremonial Law, and fairely read or ſinge the Kinges Service, as they call it. ††you muſt obſerve, he wrote this againſt the Bb. 11. Argum. ag. Cerem.4. For the Sacraments, they are (as they ſay) wickedly mingled, and prophaned, and wickedly administred. Beſides, if we will beleeve Mr. Bradſh. when he ſpeakes out againſt the Hierarchy, they have divers Sacraments, which are not of divine institution, administred in their 9. Argum.Churches, viz. the Croſſe, Ring in marriage, Surpleſſe, &c. 5. The prayers, which they are to make unto God, muſt of abſolute neceſſitie (without partiall, diſpenſation, or manifeſt violation of their oath to the Biſhops) be fooliſh, falſe, and ſuperſtitious.‡‡I mean, whē they read their ſervicebooke. 2 Admon. pag. 57

But I deſire the reader to obſerve how wittily he confirmeth the Aſſumption. It ſhall be ſufficient (ſayth he) that we can ſet forth vntounto him ſuch a ministery in ſundrie of our Church Aſſemblies, of which all thoſe points may p. 248be truely verified. Who would have thought that Mr. Bradſh. having blotted many leaves of his booke, with meere ſcoffing at Mr. Iohnſon, about his Logick, ſhould ſo groſſely overſhoot himſelfe in termes of reaſoning. For what wiſe man, but he, would have laid downe a Poſition, that comprehended indefinitely, & generally all the miniſters of their Aſsemblies; and to prove it, ſaith, we can ſhew ſome ſuch. It ſeemeth then, that thoſe (ſome ſuch) muſt make all the reſt true. Intruth, ſo he inferres, or elſe his argument (as he ſaith often of Mr. Iohnſon) is crackt braind, and lacks not truth only, but ſence alſo.

There are ſome merchants, who to put off the falſe wares, which lie upon their hands, will ſhew the buyer a little that is good, and by this meanes cunningly ſhift all the reſt upon him, and ſo deceive him: The like ſubtilty uſeth Mr. Bradſh. here, and often in his booke, that he might perſwade the reader to beleeve that all their Miniſters and Churches are true, he ſheweth him ſome of the best; in hope that under theſe, he ſhall craftily put all the reſt upon him. I mention theſe his deceiveable ſhifts the oftner, that we may have hereafter more honeſt dealing. If they will juſtifie all their Miniſters and Churches, let them ſay ſo directly; If but ſom few, as in their writings they ſtill intimate, I deſire them to ſpeake it out plainely, and not to cary the thing ſo covertly, as if they would have the poore people to beleeve, that they meant all, when themſelves are perſwaded the greateſt number are falſe and Antichriſtian.

p. 261Another reaſon, which he brings, to prove their miniſtery Lawfull, is, becauſe they profeſſe the Pope to be Antichriſt; renounce all Eccleſiaſtical homage to him, and maintaine all the members of the Church of Rome to be Hereticks and Idolaters. &c. To this I ſay, quid verba audiam cum facta videam. It is true, I know, many great errours of that Church, they opppoſe and have left, notwithſtanding, they retaine the ſelfe ſame Miniſtery, Church Government, Service, Courts, Canons, &c. which they brought out from thence, uphold them ſtill (I ſay) to the uttermoſt of their ſtrength and power; and hate, revile, impriſon, baniſh kill, &c. thoſe which will not conforme thereto. And hence it isPap. ſupp. an. 1604. Reaſ. of religiō. 13 the Papiſts ſay, that from their treaſure houſe, the religion now eſtabliſhed in England, hath learned the forme of Chrining, marying, Churching of women, viſiting of the ſicke, burying of the dead, and ſundry other like, as the book (tranſlated Panegyr. Miſſae, cap. 11, 12. and Demonſt. dogm. cap. 7.out of theirs) declared. So Iacobus Gretzerus alleadgeth againſt the Reformed Churches their Servicebooke, for their Popiſh holydayes, D^r. Tucker, and their Late booke of Canons, both for the ſigne of the Croſse, for kneeling in the act of receiving the Sacrament. For the whole Hierarchy, from the Archbiſhop downewards, & divers other their ſuperſtitions. So Cornelius Scultingius††In his Hierarchica Anacriſis. citeth Whitgift, and taketh whole leaves out of him, for defence of their Hierarchie. **Relect. againſt Whitak. cont. 2. q. 3 art. 3.Stapleton alſo uſeth the foreſaid Doctors arguments, to uphold thereby their diſcipline, and profeſſeth, that they are built upon one foundation. I could multiply authors p. 262of this nature,‡‡Rhemiſt. in 10. 21, 17. but it needs not, only let it be here minded, that all theſe teſtimonies are acknowledged to be true of the Nonconformiſts. Is not therefore their profeſſion great againſt the Pope: they clal him (they ſay) Antichrist and the Beaſt, &c. Yet notwithſtanding in reſpect of many maine and foundamental Orders, and Ordinances of his Church, they wallke along hand in hand with him. So that, they are much like to one, which cals a woman, &c. Whoore, Whoore, and lyeth with her all the while in the bed, and commits folly with her.

Anſw. to p. 100. 110Nothing is here ſaid, but the former thinges againe repeated. Indeed, he undertooke to anſwer certaine demaunds, but he kept himſelfe off, ſo covertly from the points, that he hath left them farre more obſcure & darke then they were before. For this cauſe I have thought it neceſſarie to propound unto them 13. queſtions, all gathered from Mr. Bradſh. ſhifting anſweres, & idle putt offs, with requeſt, that they would anſwere them directly and ſincerely, and from the ſcriptures; and ſo doubtleſſe the controverſie betweene them & us will be brought the ſooner to an end.

1. Whether the office of Lecturers in the Eccleſiaſtical Aſſemblies of England, be not new, and ſtrange from the ſcriptures? If not, whether they be Apoſtles, Evangeliſts, Paſtors, Teachers, Elders? &c.

2. Whether the civill Magiſtrate hath power to ſet over the Churches of Chriſt, in his Dominions, p. 263ſuch Commiſſioners and overſeers, as the preſent Hierarchie is, or no?

3. What be thoſe Eccleſiaſtical Officers, which ſome true Churches in England, have theſe many yeares beene without, either all, o… cheifeſt of them?

4. Whether the calling, enterance, adminiſtration, and maintenance of any of the publicke Miniſters of the Church of England, be unlawful, and Antichriſtian, or no?

5. Who are thoſe Eccleſiaſticall Officers, in the Church of England, which neither in name, nor in deed, are true, as he himſelf confeſſeth?

6. Whether it be lawfull for the Miniſters of the Goſpell, to be maintained by tithes and offerings, &c. in the manner and forme, as it is practifed now in England, or no?

7. Whether all the Pariſh Aſſemblies of England be true viſible Churches or no?

8. Where are thoſe Churches in our Kingdom, from whence we have ſeparated, which doe conſiſt, as now they ſtand, of a companie of people, called, and ſeparated from the world, and the falſe worſhip, and wayes thereof, by the word of God, and are joyned together in the fellowſhip of the Goſpel, by voluntarie profeſſion of faith, and obedience of Chriſt?

9. What are thoſe parts and parcells, in the booke of Common prayer, which is not the true worſhip of God, whereof he ſpeaketh?

10. Whether it be Lawfull, to have communion p. 264with the Engliſh Leiturgie, as it is ordinarily now uſed in their Churches?

11. If the true worſhip of God be preſcribed, in the booke aforeſaid, we demaund then in what part thereof the ſame is contained?

12. Whether thoſe, which joyne to the Eccleſiaſtical Miniſterie, Worſhip, and Orders of their Cathedral or Pariſhional Aſſemblies in thoſe things, which are not performed therein, according to the true meaning & intent of their Lawes, doe ſin, or no?

13. What is the true intent and meaning of theſe Lawes, and to whom doth it properly belong, to give the interpretation of them?

Thus having finiſhed, what I purpoſe to write for this time, I commend now the ſame to the beſt acceptance of every wel diſpoſed reader. Beſeeching God to make us more and more of one mind in the truth, and to give us all hearts, to walke ſincerily in it, untill our changing come.

ISA. 48. 18, 19, 20.

O that thou haddeſt hearkened to my commaundements, then had thy peace been as a River, and thy righteouſneſſe as the waves of the Sea. Thy ſeed alſo had been as the ſand, and the off-ſpring of thy bowels like the gravel thereof: his name ſhould not have been cut off, nor deſtroyed from before me. Goe ye forth of Babilon, flee ye from the C…ldeans▪ &c.

FINIS.