Questions of Religion, Commonplaces · Commonplace 8
The eight Common place. Of purgatorie, and prayer for the deade.
The. xxxiiij. Question.
Whether they beleeue that the soules of those which are dead, be tormented in the fire of Purgatorie, who not perfecting their repentance, nor being thorowly purified, hauehave departed out of this life?
The Answere.
AL that depart out of thisEyther men dy in faythe or in infidilitie. life, either depart in the true faithe, or else without the same: and of both these hath our Lord pronounced sentence in these woordes: For God sent not his son into the vvorld, to condemne the vvorld, but that it might be saued throughe him. He therefore vvhichwhich beleeueth in him, is not iudged, but he that beleeueth not, is iudged alreadie: bicause he beleeueth not in the name of the only begotten son of God. But our aduersaries Obiecte, yt a faithfull man may die, who yet notwithstā ding he be faithful, yet is not thorowly purged, bicause he hathe not performed his penance, & such one say they cannot be saued, bicause he is yet vnpure, neyther can he be dampned, bycause he is a faithfull. And therfore it necessarily foloweth, yt ther is a midle place betwéen these prepared of god, in the which such are thorowly purged, and wyth theyr paines, repay that wanted in penance. And this place they cal Purgatorie, bicause as they say, the soules are purged there. But in this kinde of Doctrine which hathe no authoritie at all in the Scriptures, we finde faulte with diuers things.
For firste Christe teacheth that the faithfull are made all pure in hym, althoughe there remaine some parte of infirmitie in them, whereof they hauehave néede to be clensed, for he manifestly saithe: He that is vvashed, hath no nede saue to vvashe his feete: for he is cleane altogether, John. 13. and. 15. And S. Paul teacheth the same, Romanes. 7. and. 8. where he sheweth, that many things are yet wanting in the faithfull, which are not imputed vntounto them bicause of their faith in Christe. And therfore in ye articles of our faith we cōfesse, that we belèeue ye remission of sinnes, the resurrectiō of the body, & the life euerlasting. And as we beleue so shal it be vntounto vsus: we beléeue our sinnes are forgiuen vsus, and therfore they are so. Furthermore when we say sinnes: we doo not onelyonly meane the faulte, but also the punishemente due for the same. Wherefore when the sinnes for the whiche we are punished, are forgiuen vsus, howe then I pray you are we vncleane? Or if sin be quite …akē away, why then should they suffer, as though they were not remitted. Wherefore if they had true fayth in Chryst, then shall they liue for euer: but if they beléeued not, then are they damned. And this dothe our fayth teach vsus, whiche is confirmed, Esai. 53. and John. 3. 5. 6. and. …. Chapters. SecondlyWe are not counted pure for our own works sake. we blame in their doctrine, that they ascribe perfecte puritie to perfecte repentaunce, whiche puritie is onelyonly had by the death, bloud, & merites of Christ. For if puritie were had by our merites, then is Christ dead in vayne. But Chryst is not dead in vayne, therefore puritie commeth onelyonly by the grace of God, throughe faythe in the deathe of Chryst. Actes. 1…. Gala. 7. and. 1. John. 1. But howe féeble an argument that is, which they say, that the soules requite with their punishmentes in the fire of Purgatorie, which before they wanted, to perfecte repentaunce, wée hauehave héeretofore shewed, when wée entreated of Faythe and Workes, prouing then those things which we both do and suffer, not to bée worthy of that ioye wherof in the life to come we are made partakers by Chryste. Thirdly wée blame in their doctrine of Purgatorie, that they attribute not puritie to the bloude of Chryste onelyonly, without the which yet nothing can purge vsus: but without all authoritie of Gods worde, they fayne vntounto vsus I knowe not what kinde of fire, to the which they without all shame attribute our purging. This also wée finde false with them, for that they say the faythfull, who departe out of this life, are tormented in the life to come, quite contrary to the wordes of Chryst: Verily verily I say vntounto you, he that heareth my worde, and beleueth him that sent me, hath eternall life, and shall not come into iudgement, but passeth from death to life. Iohn. 5. Wherefore if he went into Purgatorie, then must he néedes come into iudgement: but sith the faythfull passe from death to life, we answere, that the faithful are clerely purged of the Lord, and are not subiect to any fire of Purgatorie.
The. xxxv. Question.
Whether the prayers, almes, and sacrifices which are done in the christian Churche for those who are tormented in purgatorie, be profitable to thē, or not?
The Answere.
FOrasmuche as we hauehaveOf praiers & such lyke things done for the dead. alredy playnly declared, yt our aduersaries erre, euen in the chefest point of this question, and that is, in the fire of Purgatorie it selfe, bycause it hath no testimonie in the Scripture, therefore I conclude the soules of the faythfull can not there bée punished, bycause there is no suche thing: and therfore we néede not pray for them after they be dead, or do any thing for them, sauing onelyonly to make a reuerende remembraunce, and render thankes vntounto God, for that it hathe pleased him to call them out of this worlde (in the true fayth) vntounto his kingdome, and that it would please him to encrease our fayth, and so in tyme to couple vsus with our forefathers in eternall felicitie. Furthermore we teache, that if we could doo anything for their sakes, acceptable to God, and profitable to them, that then we ought to doo for their wyues, children, and kynsfolk. And I am not ignoraunt that many ciuill men are maruelously offended with vsus, bicause they thinke it very vndecēt, yea horrible, & a thing in no wise beséeming a christian man, that we not onelyonly doo nothing to helpe our forefathers, but also speake & write agaynst so auncient a custome (and as wée ourselues knowe) so vniuersally receyued and vsed. And therefore I hartily beséeche all those, to heare and way those our reasons, which moue vsus herevnto. For we doo not this, neither ceasse we to pray for them, or neglecte so vsuall things, bicause we louelove not our forefathers, or for that we care not for them, but bicause the christian fayth teacheth and confirmeth, yea forceth, so as by no meanes wée can acknowledge▪ it good and sounde doctrine to pray for them, or that these things oughte to bée done for their saluation, yea we know that our fathers hauehave no néede hereof, and that they require no suche thing of vsus. For wée faythfully and certaynely beléeue and knowe, that sinnes are remitted bothe héere in this lyfe, and in that to come, by none other meanes, but by the grace of God in the bloud of Jesus Chryste through fayth: and as for the fyre of Purgatorie, which standeth on our merites and punishments whiche we suffer, is nothing appertayning to the grace of God, nor the bloud of christ in fayth. Agayne it is certayne that our fathers dyed in the confession of the same fayth with vsus, wherein wée say, I beleeue the remission of sinnes, the resurrection of the body, & the lyfe euerlasting. Wherefore sithe the vniuersall fayth, & the manyfest testimonies of the Scriptures doo euidently proue, that al they which by true fayth commit them selues to the grace and mercy of God and dye in Christ, are preserued of him so as they come not into iudgement, into any fire, payne, or punishment, … are receiued into euerlasting ioye… how then I beseeche you, can wée pr… for them, or do such like things for the… saluation, wherof in déede they sho… hauehave néede, if they suffered any pay… or punyshmente. But they suffer no… and therfore there néedeth nothing bée done to delyuer them from it. F… if after the departure out of this life the true Fayth, they yet neuertheles… suffered the fire of Purgatorie, punishementes and torments, then we… all that vayne and to no purpose whiche are reade and taughte vsus out of … holy Scryptures, touching the fr… mercyfull promyse of God, the del… ueraunce by Chryst, and of the certai… tie and veritie of fayth: yea our fay… it selfe, shoulde bée moste vntrue. B… our fayth is certayne and sure. Ther… fore as our fathers did vndoubtedly b… léeue the forgiuenesse of sinnes, & ete… nall lyfe, so hauehave they vndoubtedly o… ▪ teyned the same, and féele no payne in …e other lyfe. And therefore bothe for the glory of God, the prayse and confession of our faith, as also for the honor of …r fathers, touching whose saluation …e doubt not, we do nothing after their …ath for the saluation of their soules. …ea we think that by these kind of do…gs & prayers of ours, both our saluation, and faythe is called in doubte, as …oughe they beléeued the remission of …nes & euerlasting life, and yet hauehave …t obteined it. But this is most wicked be thought, & therfore not to be spokē: … it is all one, as though God and our …th might deceiue vsus, which is impos…le. Moreouer for breuities sake I wilThei are but filthy marchandise vvherevvyth they vvoulde hauehave vsus redeem… souls. …t here declare how vile those things …, and without all authoritie of Gods …rde, whiche they commaunde vsus to … for the helpe of our fathers: so as they shoulde féele but some of those …ollerable paynes of Purgatorie, as …y saye they doo, yet coulde these …ngs helpe them nothing at all: for …t for the moste parte their delyue…nce and remedie is boughte of those who are moste filthye and wycked Wherfore it is much better not to séek… the saluatiō of our fathers at the hand… of those wicked and filthy marchaunts▪ who doo nothing but for money, or from the traditions of men, but rather stedfastly to knitte our selues to the sure foundation of the grace and mercy o… God in the bloud and death of our sauiour Chryst through perfect fayth. And so by this meanes shall our mindes bée assured of the saluation of our fathers, where as otherwyse by celebratyng yerely Ceremonies for them, wee are stil left doubtfull when they are effectuall, or they receiue profite by them. Agayne we learne not to truste in theWe may not for purgatories sake truste in any thing. merites and workes of other men after our death for Purgatories sake. For those fiue foolishe Uirgins perished by suche negligence, whylest they sought, and would bye Oyle of others. For the Scripture byddeth vsus to doo good, and not to deferre it whylest we hauehave time. And therefore wée earnestly exhort all men whyle they are heere in this lyfe, and in perfect remembraunce, to serue God, and prepare them selues to their iourney, and not to trust in the workes of other men to bée done after their death for them, bycause they can not then helpe them. But if it chaunce any man to lye at the poynt of death, then with the wordes of the Gospell wée sende hym to Chryste, to pray for the remission of hys sinnes, to truste to the grace and merciemercy of God, and so with full consolation hope for eternall lyfe. And this and none other was the doctrine of the primatiue Apostolyke Church, like as Paule writeth of the dead. 1. Thes. 4. And therfore by Gods grace wée will kéepe the same.
The. xxxvj. Question.
What they say to the glory of Lazarus, and his systers MarthaIohn. 1…. and Marie, who prayed vntounto Chryste for their brother?Act. …0. Lykewise of Eutiches, whom Paule raysed from the deade, whether this were done without prayers, and whether that Saint Peter did not rayse Tabitha to life by prayers?
The Answere.
I Suppose that Mary,Hovve and vvherfore the apostles did pray. Martha, Peter & Paule prayed vntounto God, but yet not as our aduersaries teache vsus to pray for the dead: that is, that God would be merciful to their soules, and delyuer them from the fire of purgatorie, and receiue them into eternall life: but they prayed, that vntounto the glory of god they might be restored to this life. And do they thinke that Lazarus,Where Lazarus vvas that time he vvas dead. Eutiches and Tabitha were in the fire of purgatorie, and after their death suffered prayers? I suppose they dare not affirme it. And therfore they bring vsus such examples as serue not their purpose, but are onelyonly to blere the eyes of the simple. But if they say, they were in Purgatory, then I pray you, howe proue they the same. But some of them affirme & say. If Lazarus were in hell, then could he not be deliuered, for in hell there is no redemption: but if he were in heauen, then had he wrong to be brought agayne to this earth of miserie. And héere therfore they conclude, that there muste néedes bée a thirde or midle place. To these I answer: first yt hereby they hauehave not proued this midle place to be purgatorie, but that it may be as wel some other place only knowē vntounto God. Secondly I say that their whole argument is false & vaine. Lazarus (as the scripture there techeth) was Christes frende, and therfore his soulo was receiued into the bosome of Abraham after his death, like as we may sée in the other Lazarus, of whome Luke speketh. ca. …6. Neither had he any iniury offred him, when his soule (to ye setting forth of Gods glory) was agayne coupled to his body: for all creatures doo of right and dutie serue their creator. The Lord said vntounto the these hanging on the crosse, This day shalt thou be with me in paradise, & yet the. 3. day he rose agayn, & dyd not thereby suffer any wrong. &c. Truely I thinke that if these men which are called the Spiritualtie, were compelled tobestow so much money for the dead vponupon the laypeople, as they for thys matter doo receyue of them, their fire of Purgatorie woulde not burns so hotte, and their prayers would come downe to a lower pryce. But if thys doctrine of Purgatorie bée so necessarie: howe commeth it then to passe I beséeche you, that the Caste Churches in Grecia dydde neuer receyue it, nor knowe of it, vntill the tyme of Eugenius the fourth, at whiche tyme very shortely after, Constantinople was taken by the Turke.
The. xxxvij. Question.
What they say to this place of the Machabees: It is therefore an holy and holesome thoughte, to pray for the dead, that they may bee delyuered from their sinnes.
The Answere.
SAint Hierome, CiprianOf the seconde booke of the Machebes. and Gelasius shall vntounto this place aunswere for vsus: that this secōd boke of Machabées is read in the Church, but hath not like authority with other canonical scriptures of the Bible, to take authoritie thence as frō other scriptures in the controuersies of religion. Therfore bycause in al the bookes of the olde & new testament there is not one word spokē of the sacrifices for the dead, we leaue this place as we found it, as not béeing able to proue any thing. Agayne all the actes of holy mē are not to be folowed, neither are they acceptable to god. Ge…eon for a good intēt made an Ephod in …phra, which yet had bin better if it had not bin done. In the. 14. Chapter of the historie of ye Machabées Raazias is praised for killing himself, that he might not al into the hands of his enimies, & yet his act, as the whole scripture techeth, … the best of the fathers do iudge, deserueth neither prayse, nor is thought wel of: for eueryevery man touching death, ought to abide till God doo call. And as touching this Booke I could say more, but this is sufficient.