Defense of the Baptism of Children, Dialogue

Defense of the Baptism of Children · Dialogue

¶ Thre moſte frutefull Dialogues, treatynge vponupon the baptiſme of chyldren, very neceſſary to be red of all Chryſtyans, in theſe moſte paryllouſe tymes. ¶ Symon the Anabaptiſt, Ioiada the true Chriſtyan. ¶ That rebaptizatyon or baptyzyng agayne, is not of god: and that there is but one baptyſme.

Symon.

I HaueHave taryed here for the, more than an hole houre, Ioiada, I was almoſt perſwaded, I dyd almoſte beleue, y^t thou durſt not come becauſe that thou haddeſte lyttle truſte and confydence in the other articles.

Ioiada.

There is no artycle, y^t I am ſoo ſure of: it is ſo farre, that I ſhould be afrayde to ſpeake of it.

Simon.

But I wil proue that rebaptyzation is of God.

Ioiada.

By what ſcriptures?Actes. xix. chapi.Acts 19

Symon.

By y^e .xix chapter of the Actes, where it is expreſſely ſet furthe, that the .xii. men, y^t had bene baptyzed by Ihon, or in the baptiſme of Ihon, were baptyzed agayne by Paule in the name of Chriſte. If it was lawfull after the baptiſme of Ihon, to receyue the baptyſme of Chriſte, why ſhoulde it not be more lawfull, that the baptyſme of y^e Biſſhop of Rome, ſhould giuegive place vntounto y^e baptiſme of Chriſt? For as thoſe men of Epheſus, had bene ignorauntlye and vnwyttingly baptized with the baptyſme of Ihon, and agayne were baptyzed by Paul: In like maner, we were ignorauntly baptized with the baptiſme of the Buſſhop of Rome: Ergo, we maye lawfully be baptyzed agayne, wyth the baptiſme of Chriſte.

Ioiada.

As manye wordes as thou haſt ſpoken, ſo many errours haſt thou vomyted and ſpued out Fyrſte, thou ſayeſt that thoſe men of Epheſus wer twiſe baptized, which thing thou canſt not proue,Ac. xix. cha Baptiſme is not takē for water, but for the doctryne. for the baptiſme of Ihon, ought not here to be takē for water, but for the doctryne.

Symon.

Thys is the onelyonly refuge that ye flee to, when ye be ouercomen by the truthe. But ye can not proue nor ſtrengthen theſe your ſayinges w^t y^e ſcripturs, nor by any truth

Ioiada.

But I wil proue vntounto y^e, y^t baptiſme is not alwaies takē for y^e waſſhing y^t is done in the water,Ihon. i. & iii. chapter Mat. xxi. chapter.Matt 21 but rather for the doctryne. Ihō .i. & .iii. chap. And of thys thing, there be moſt ſure tokens, ſignes, notes, as Mat. xxi. chap. where Chriſt aſketh y^e phariſes whether the baptiſme of Ihon was of god, or of men,Baptiſme is takē for y^e doctrine for as the water doth waſh away y^e filthines of y^e body, ſo y^e trew doctrine doth clenſe the ſoul frō all errours & ſuperſtytyon. Act. xii. cha Appollo.Acts 12 & ſithens y^t it was of god, why dyd they not credite & beleue him, vnderſtanding by baptiſm (as it moſt manyfeſtly appeareth) y^e doctryne or teſtimony, which they ought to hauehave beleued,

Simon.

Well, go to, put y^e caſe y^t in this place it is taken for the doctrine: yet notwithſtandinge, it foloweth not, y^t in y^e Actes of the apoſtles, it ſhuld be takē for doctrine.

Ioiada.

In y^e mean ſeaſon, ye were to much ouerſene in this thing, & ouer blinded, ſaying moſt ſhamefully, y^t we did affirme w^tout any truthe, y^e baptiſme is often times taken for y^e doctrine. But go to, we wil alſo proue, y^e baptiſme is taken in y^e Acts, for y^e doctryne. In y^e .xii. of Actes, Luke ſaith, y^t a certain Iue called Apollo, being an eloquēt mā & taught in y^e way of y^e lorde, did come to Epheſus, and y^t he did teache dilygently thoſe thinges y^t were y^e lordes, knowing onelyonly the baptiſme of Ihon. Here y^e very blind may ſe y^e Luke did ſpeake, not of the water, but of y^e doctryne. The ſame Apollos did teache and inſtruct thoſe. xii men in y^e way of the lord. whō afterwardes, Paul doth aſke, whether after that they had beleued & giuen credit vntounto the doctrine,What is to receyue y^e holy goſt they had bene pacified in theyr hertes & conſciences, by the holy ghoſt. (Here it is to be noted, that faithe is not taken for that heauenlye gyft,Faythe is here taken for the doctryne of fayth. that illumynateth the hearte inwardlye, but for the doctryne of faythe, whyche one man dothe receyue of an other by hearynge) But they dyd ſoo aunſwere, that Paule myght eaſely gather by theyr aunſwere that they knew not what the peace of cō ſciences, nor what the holye ghoſt was. He marueylyng therefore,In quid initiati fuiſſēt This word to initiate, whych we are compelled to vſe in thys place, ſignifieth to inſtructe, or gyue inſtructyō in ani kind of relygyon, ſcience or knowlege. what maner of doctryne thys was, that had not ſet furth vntounto them, ſo neceſſary and principall poyntes, dyd aſke them wheruntoo they were baptyzed, not wherin: For he knewe ryght well that men are baptized in water. But he aſketh whervnto they were baptyzed, that is too ſaye, initiated and taughte, what at lengthe was the marke that they dyd ſhoote at, fithens y^t they knewe not yet the holy goſt? They made hym anſwere that they were baptized, that is to ſaye, initiated in the doctryne of Ihon. The Apoſtle dyd vnderſtande and perceyue that they were not yet ryght well taught and inſtructed in y^e doctryne of Ihon. He begynneth therfore, and wyth expreſſe wordes ſetteth furth the doctryne of Ihon. Which wordes, if they were well weyghed and pondered, they make altogether againſt you For thus are the wordes of Paul: Ioannes baptiſauit baptiſmo poenitentiae: y^t is to ſay, Ihō hath baptized w^t the baptiſm of repentaunce. What meane theſe words,What is to baptyſe w^t the baptiſme of repentaunce he hath baptized with the baptiſme of repentaunce, but that Ihon did preache repentaunce? or did teache how we ought to repent, that will be initiated in Chriſt or receyue the fyrſt inſtructyon in the religyon of Chriſte? Afterwardes he dyd ſpeake of hym that ſhuld come after him that they might beleue in hym, that is to ſay, in Ieſus Chriſte. Out of the whych fayth and beleife, peace doth ſpryng in y^e mynde and conſcyence of man. Rom. v.Ro. v chapRom 5 chap. Whē they had vnderſtanded that they dyd receyue the baptiſme of water in the name of Ieſus. The wordes that folowe of y^e impoſityon of handes, make me to expound thys laſt, of the baptiſme of water. As I thynke now, I hauehave ſuffyciently proued, that this place helpeth nothing the Anabaptiſtes: for they, whō mentyon is made of, in the .xix. chap. of Acts, were not baptized againe, but baptyzed once for all, and twyſe inſtructed and taught.Whether y^e baptiſme of Ihon, & y^e baptiſme of Chriſte, be all one.

Symon.

By thys it ſhoulde folowe, that the baptyſme of Ihon, and the baptyſme of Chriſte is all one, and y^t there is noo dyfference betwene them.

Thys can not be, for the doctrine of Ihō dyd differre from the doctryne of Chriſt

Ioiada.

In this thing ye are greatly deceyued, for the doctrine of Ihon, and the doctryne of Chriſte, are all one, and their baptiſme all one (Here I do ſpeake of y^e baptiſme of water) and by thys we doo gather and conclude truly, that theſe mē of Epheſus were not baptyzed with the baptyſme of Ihon, (I ſpeake of the water) for if they had bene baptized wyth y^e baptiſme of Ihon, it had not bene neceſſary and nedefull, that Paule ſhould had baptized them againe in the baptiſme of Chriſte, for bothe theyr doctryne & their baptiſme are all one.

Symon.

If the doctryne of Ihon, & the doctryne of Chrſte were all one, why dyd Luke wryte that Apollo was taught onelyonly in the doctrine or baptyſme of Ihon, and that therefore Priſcilla and Aquilla, dyd take him vntounto them, and did teache him more exactly in the way of the lorde.What is ment by this, that Appollo was taught more exactly. If the doctryne of Ihon, and the doctrine of Chriſt were al one, what did nede to teach him more exactly? for he that did know the doctryne of Ihon, did alſo knowe the doctryne of Chriſte.

IOI.

Luke ſayth, that they did expoūd vntounto hym more exactly in y^e way of the Lorde. The doctryne was all one: but in Apollo there wanted ſomewhat, which knew not all thinges exactly and perfectly. For theſe .xii. do ſaye alſo, that they were taught and inſtructed in y^e baptiſme of Ihon, whoſe doctryne for all y^t they vnderſtode not perfectly, although they were inſtructed in the doctryne of Ihon, yet notwythſtandynge are they taught more exactly by Paul.

SIM.

But Paul ſayth not that the doctrine is all one.

IOIA.

Thou doſt eueryevery foote bring darkenes into the manifeſt lyght. Tel me, I pray the, which is the ſumme of Chriſtes doctrine, and of the apoſtles?

SIM.

And I do aſke y^e whether Paul in the .xix. chapter of the Actes, did teach that Ihons and Chriſtes doctryne were all one?

IOI.

To that wyll I anſwere after that I hauehave herd of the, whych is y^e ſumme of Chriſtes doctrine, & of hys Apoſtles.Note the obſtnacye of the Anabaptiſts

SIM.

I will not giuegive the ouer hand, but perſyſt and abyde in y^e wordes of Luke, which are written, Act. xix chap

IOIA.

Thou doſt perſiſte and abide in thy contention and obſtinacie. And this are ye wont to do, eyther when ye hauehave nothyng to anſweare, and when ye perceyue that ye are ouercommen with the truthe. Go to, I will declare what is the ſumme of the doctrine of Chriſt,The ſume of the doctryne of Chriſt, and of y^e Apoſtles. Marke. i. Chapter. Math. iiii. Chapter.Mark 1Matt 4 and of y^e Apoſtles. Mark. i. chap. It is written after this maner: Ieſus came too Galilee, preachyng the goſpell of the kyngdome of god, and ſaying. The time is fulfilled and the kyngdome of god is at hand, repent ye, and beleue the goſpel. Mat. iiii. chap. Ieſus departed into Galilee, & did begin to preache and ſay: Repent ye the kingdom of heauen is at hand. Chryſte doth alſo ſende his Apoſtles, ſayinge: As my father hath ſende me, ſoo I do ſend you,Ihon xx. Chaptre. Ihō. xx. chapter. But the father did ſende Chriſt to preache repentaunce and forgiueneſſe of ſynnes ergo, Chriſte ſendeth his Apoſtles too preache the ſame.Luke xxiiii. Chapter.Luke 24 This is manyfeſt and playn by the .xxiiii of Luke, and laſte of Marke. So it behoued Chriſt to ſuffer, and to riſe frō death vponupon the thyrd day, and that repentaūce and remiſſion of ſinnes ſhoulde be preached emong all nations in his name, beginning at Ieruſalem, and ye ſhal be witneſſes of theſe thinges.Actes .ii. iii. Chap. The boke of the Actes doth teſtifie, that the Apoſtles did preache the ſame .ii. iii. chap. Haſte thou any thing againſt ſo manifeſt ſcripturs?

SIM.

Nothing:The doctryne of Chriſt and y^e doctrine of Ihon be all one. But now I aſke the whether the doctryne of Ihon, and the doctrine of Chriſte be all one.

IOI.

I doo proue and conclude by the places afore alledged, that it is all one. It is ſayd that the fame of the doctrine of Chriſt & of the Apoſtles, is comprehended in this one thing, that men ſhuld repent, know the kingdome of god to be at hand, and beleue in Ieſus Chriſt. Doſt thou graūt theſe thinges?

SIM.

What thē?

IOI

Ihon did teache y^t ſelfe ſame thing: ergo, their doctrine was al one, I proue y^e firſt propoſityō by y^e third of Mathew: Ihon baptiſt did preache in y^e deſart of Iury, & did ſay: Repent ye, y^e kingdome of god is at hande. In like maner, Luke .i.Luk. i. cha. Ihō. i. and iij. chapterLuke 1 chapter And thou chylde. &c. It is manifeſt by y^e firſt and thyrd of Ihon, that Ihon baptyſte did preache the Goſpell, Actes .xix. (Whych place we hauehave treated vponupon alredy) he preacheth the ſame, as we maye gather by the wordes of Paule. For he ſpeaketh there after thys maner: Ihon did preache the baptiſme of repentaunce ſpeaking of Ieſus Chriſt, in whom they ſhould beleue. Here I do beſeche the to confeſſe and tell plainely, whether theſe thinges do not ſufficientlye proue that y^e doctrine of Ihō, & the doctrine of Chriſt be all one.

SIMO.

What doſt thou gather & conclude therupon.The Anabaptyſtes do teche y^e thynges y^t they can not proue by y^e ſcryptures.

IOI.

That ye Anabaptiſtes are agayn ouerthrowē and that ye hauehave taught that thing whiche ye could not proue by the ſcriptures and yet for all that, ye are ſo obſtacle and ſtubburne, that ye wyll in no wyſe gyue place vntounto the truth. Who woulde hauehave beleued the to be ſo ſtiffe necked, that I ſhould be fayne to dryue the to it wyth the ſcripturs?

SIM.

What make theſe thinges to the baptizing agayn?

IOI.

Very muche. for if the doctryne of Ihō and the doctrine of Chriſt be al one, their baptiſme alſoo is all one.There is no exaumple of baptizinge again in all y^e ſcryptures. Ergo, ye hauehave no example at all of your rebaptizatyon or baptyzing gayne. Alſo they, whome mentyon is made of Actes .xix. Chapter could not hauehave bene baptyzed wyth the baptiſme of Ihon. that is done in y^e water and againe be rebaptized by Paule. For ſo they ſhoulde had bene twiſe baptized with one baptiſm of water, and the one ſhould had aboliſſhed y^e other, which thing can not be done by no mean. For theyr baptiſme is all one.

SIM.

Thou ſayeſt ryghte well, yf there were onelye one baptiſme.There is onelyonly one baptyſme which y^e anabaptyſtes do deuyde. The doctrine is more excellente then baptiſme.

IOIA.

Ye do not onelyonly deuide the churche, but alſo baptyſme. I do bring againſt the, the wordes of Paul which ſaith: Chryſt hath ſent me, not to baptyſe, but to preache y^e goſpel. Now I do aſke the whether of theſe two is more excellent, the doctryne of the Goſpell, or the baptyſme?

SIMO.

The doctryne is more excellente then baptiſme, for baptiſme, is annexed and ioyned, to the doctryne.

IOIADA.

If Chriſte and Ihō do agre in the doctryne, it foloweth that they did alſo conſent and agre in the baptyſme, ergo, theyr baptyſme is all one.

SIMON.

It can not be alone, for the Apoſtles and Chriſte dydde baptyſe in the name of Ieſus, alſoo in the name of the father, of the ſonne, and of the holye ghoſt, Ihon dyd not ſo: Ergo, it can not be all one baptyſme.

IOIADA.

Chriſt hym ſelfe dyd not baptyſe, but hys Apoſtles in hys name.Ihon .iiii. Chapter. Ihon .i. Chapter. Marke .i. Chapter. Iuke .iii. Chapter. Ihon and the Apoſtles dyd baptiſe in the name of Ieſus. Ihō .iiij. Cha. Where as thou ſayeſt y^t Ihon dyd not baptyſe in the name Ieſus, thou doſte greatlye erre. For Ihon .i. Chapter. Mar. i. chap alſo, Iuke the thyrd Chapter, it is moſt manyfeſt and playne by his own words that Ihon dydde baptyſe in Ieſus. For there he doth expound his baptyſme, ſayinge, I doo baptyſe wyth water, but he that ſhall come after mee, wyll baptyſe you wyth the holye ghoſte. What other thing is thys, but that I do prepare you to Chriſte, whyche ſhall make you perfecte. Is not thys to baptiſe in the name of Ieſus? In what, I praye the, dyd the apoſtles baptyſe, but in the name of Ieſus?Actes .ii. Chapter. Actes .ii. Chap. Se nowe what thou haſt wonne, truely none other thing, but that with thine own wordes, thou haſte confyrmed and proued, that theyr baptiſme is all one.

SIMON.

Yet he dyd not baptyſe in the name of the father, y^e ſonne, and the holye ghoſte.

IOIA.

Although Ihon did not know Chriſt to be one god with the father, & the holy goſt. Whereby it ſhoulde folowe, that when Ihon dyd baptyſe, and ſende or directe men vntoo Ieſus, that he dyd baptyſe & directe or ſende them vntoo a bare man. Whych thinge how vngodly it is, who doth not ſee? Ihon Baptiſt dyd knowe Chriſte to be the ſonne of god, equall w^t the father in all thynges, he knew alſo y^t the ſpirite of god did inhabyte and dwell in hym, whych was geuen vntounto hym after no meaſure,Ihon .i. Chapter. but of whoſe fulneſſe all men did receyue. Ihon .i. Chapter. For this cauſe he attributeth ſo muche vntoo Chriſt, that he did ſend all men vntounto him and prepared the people for hym. Farthermore he dydde baptyſe theym in the name of Ieſus, becauſe that he knewe hym too be one god with the father and the holy ghoſt.

SIM.

Theſe be thy reaſons, & not the word of god.

IO.

I wyl proue the theſe thinges by the worde of god. When Ihon did baptiſe Chriſte in Iordan, the heauens did open, & he did ſe y^e ſpirit of god deſcending and comming doun vpō him. And behold a voice from heauen, ſaying: Thys is my welbeloued ſon, In whō I am pleaſed. Who wil ſay now y^t Ihon knew not y^e father & y^e holy goſt. Ihon .iij.Ihon .iii. Chapter. Chap. He dothe celebrate and ſet furth with manye goodly praiſes, the maieſtie of Chriſte, emong al other thynges, ſpeakyng after this maner: He whō god hath ſent, ſpeaketh the word of god. For god doth not geue hym the ſpiryte after a meaſure. The father loueth y^e ſon and hath giuen al thynges into his hand Theſe thinges doo teſtifye and wytneſſe that Ihon dyd knowe ryght well the miſtery of the trinitie and vnytye in Chriſte

SIMON.

I graunt that he did know as thou ſaieſt, yet it foloweth not therby that Ihō did baptyſe in the name of the father, the ſonne, and the holy goſt.

IO.

It foloweth plainely. For I do aſke the whether he that baptizeth in Chriſt, doth baptyſe in man, or in god?

SIMO.

In god truely.

IOIA.

Nowe I aſke whether Chriſt touching his own godheade be ſeperated from the father & the holye ghoſt?

SIMO.

No, for there is but one god onelyonly.

IOIA.

Now make thine argument after this maner: Chriſte Ieſus touching his diuine nature, is not dyuyded from y^e father and y^e holy ghoſt. And he y^t baptizeth in Ieſus, baptizeth not in his humain nature, but in his diuine and godly nature. Ergo, he that baptizeth in Ieſus, baptizeth in y^e father and y^e holye goſt. Ihō (as it is proued before) did baptiſe in Ieſus Chriſt, y^t is to ſay, in hym y^t ſhould come after him: Ergo, Ihon dyd baptiſe in y^e father & y^e holy goſt, for theſe ſentences are of lyke ſyngnificacion and importaunce: he did baptiſe in god, he did baptiſe in Ieſus Chriſt, he dyd baptiſe in the name of the father, the ſonne and the holy goſt. For, there is one god onelyonly vntounto whom we are brought, and grafted by baptiſme.

SIMO,

I neuer vnderſtode this thyng afore, for I thought that Ihō had onelyonly begon with hys baptiſm, but y^t the baptiſme of Chriſte had thē at length begonne, when he dyd ſende his apoſtles in the laſt chapter of Mark, and of Mathew. Whiche thyng if it were true, the baptiſme of Ihon, and the baptiſme of Chriſt coulde not be all one.

IOIA.

Of thys dyd come and ſpringe the errour of of the Anabaptiſtes. Becauſe that they thinke, that baptiſm was thē ordeyned & inſtituted after that Chriſte did ryſe from death. And I do merueyle, that they did falle in too thys errour, ſithens that with playne teſtymonyes of the ſcryptures it is ſet forth and expreſſed, that Chriſt had by his apoſtles, baptized before his death and afore that they had receiued the holy ghoſtes Ihon .iii.Ihon .iii. and .iiii. Chapter. and .iiii. Chapter. After thys Ieſus dyd come and his diſcyples, into the lande of Iuery, and there he did abyde with them, and did baptiſe. Ihon alſo dyd baptyſe before Chriſt, wherfore he was called baptyſte.

SIMON.

Ergo, baptyſme hath hys beginnynge and inſtitutyon of man.

IOIADA.

Truly Ihon was a man, whych thing no man can denye, yet notwythſtanding, his doctryne and baptyſme, were not of man, but of God.Math. xxi. Chapter.Matt 21 Mathewe one and twenty Chapter. But it is called the baptyſme of Ihon, and of the apoſtles, not becauſe it is theyrs, but becauſe it is mynyſtred by theym. I wyll ſpeake more playnely.Math. xi. Chapter. how thys ſayinge. The lawe and the prophetes were tyll Ihō cam.Matt 11 Chriſt. Mathewe .xi. Chapter, ſaythe that the law and the prophetes were tyll Ihon came, whereby Chriſte doth ſhew that the thynge that the Prophetes dyd afore prophecye, to be or too come, was more fullye ſet furthe and declared by y^e preachyng of Ihon. For the thynges y^e afore by the prophetes were prophecied to come, vnderunder darke fygures of wordes the ſelfe ſame thinges are ſette furthe by Ihon, as fulfylled and preſente,Ihon begynneth wyth hys baptſme, the goſpell and newe teſtament. and are in a maner ſhewed with the fygure. The lawe had a miſticall lambe: Ihon dydde ſhewe the true lambe wyth hys fynger. Ihon therfore doth begyn firſt the goſpell and the newe Teſtamente, and ſheweth that the Meſſias is come. It was neceſſarye then, that he ſhould aboliſſhe the olde ſygnes, and chaunge them into other, that ſhould be without bloud, worthy of the new teſtamente.Circumcyon is chaū ged intoo baptiſme. For circumciſion was chaunged into baptyſme. Therfore Ihon beginneth baptiſme firſt, as a ſigne or ſeale of the people of God. But let vsus heare his owne wytneſſes and teſtimonyes of that thynge.Math. iii. Chapter.Matt 3 Mat. iii chap When he did ſe manye of the Pharyſes and Saduces, cōming too his baptyſme (that they alſo might receiue baptiſm of him) he ſaid vntounto them: Bryng ye furth frutes, worthy of repentaūce. By y^e whiche wordes Ihon doth plainlye declare, wherfore, & for what purpoſe & vſe, he did miniſter baptiſm, although he ſhuld ſaie, It ſhal not be ſufficiēt to hauehave your body waſſhed in the water, but rather this, ye muſt hauehave a reſpect vntounto, y^t ye be new mē that ye be ſory and repente of your myſdeedes that are paſſed, and take heede of them, that are to come. There is no cauſe why ye ſhuld boſte your ſelues to be the children of Abraham, onleſſe ye do folow y^e fayth of Abraham. What did Abrahā? he dyd beleue in god, hee was obediente vntounto the worde of god, hee dyd approue hym ſelfe, or ſhewed hym ſelfe faythfull in all thinges vntounto the ſame god. For I ſay vntounto you, y^e god is able, to rayſe vntounto Abraham, Chyldren of theſe ſtoones (that is to ſaye of the gentils) Now alſo y^e axe is laid to the roote of the tree,What is to be vnderſtanded, by y^e vnprofitable bowes wher wyth the vnprofytable braunches that bring forth no fruyte, are cutte of. That is to ſaye, the bowghes, that dyd growe of the naturall olyue tree, I meane thee vnfaythefull Chyldren, beynge cutte of and caſt awaye from the Teſtamente of god, ſhal be deſtroyed and burnt. Vnderſtande therfore my wordes a ryght. Prepare your heartes agaynſt the comming of the Meſſias, the newe king, I do baptiſe you wyth water, and in a maner initiate you, or giuegive you the firſt inſtruction in the religyon of Chriſt, to the intente y^t ye be ſuch, y^e wil repente & receiue Chriſt When he is receiued, he ſhal baptiſe you with the holye ghoſte, that is to ſaye,Too baptiſm w^t thē holi ghoſt he ſhal ſeale and make you perfect, with his holy ſpirite, he ſhall pardon and forgeue you your ſynnes, he ſhall alſo endue you wyth fyer, that is to ſaye, wyth feruente charytye. Study wyth all diligence to receyue hym worthely. &c. By theſe teſtymonies we do conclude and gather, that Ihon dydde baptyſe fyrſte, and that he dyd alſo baptiſe in Chriſte. The apoſtles after that they had receyued Chriſt, dyd vſe none other baptyſme, but the ſame y^t they had learned of Ihon. Yea, Chriſte hym ſelfe was alſoo baptyzed in the baptyſme of Ihon.The baptiſme of Ihon, is the true baptiſme, els Chriſt, was not well baptized. Yf Ihons baptyſme is not trewe, it foloweth that Chryſte was not truely baptyzed, and that he oughte too be baptyzed agayne. Who is ſoo madde too ſay ſo? Ergo, the baptyſme of Ihō, is the true baptiſme, whych Chryſt dyd confyrme and ſanctyfye in him ſelfe

SIMON.

I doo agre vntoo all theſe thynges: but what doo they make agaynſte rebaptyzatyon?

IOIADA

Thys trewlye, that the men of Epheſus, whome mentyon is made of, Actes. the nynetene Chapter. Were not baptyzed again, ſyth that y^e baptiſme of Chriſt and the baptiſme of Ihon be all one. Yf they were not baptyzed agayne, the anabaptiſtes hauehave no example at all, of theyr rebaptyzation. Whereby it foloweth, that theyr rebaptyzatyon is not of God For they deuyde that one onelye baptyſme. Paule ſayth. One god, one fayth one baptyſme, whyche is in the churche of god, wythout the whych, there is noo baptyſme. Syth then that the anabaptyſtes do forſake the church,The anabaptiſtes hauehave no baptiſme. yea, do deuide the churche, and are felowes of herytykes, they hauehave noo baptyſme. For they are not in the churche of Chriſte. Ergo. theyr rebaptyzatyon is repugnaunte vntoo GOD, and is nothynge elles, but a newe ſecte, agaynſte the vnytye of the churche.Obiection both foolyſhye and chyldyſhe.

SIMO.

But thou doeſt diſſē ble this, that they do abhorre y^e baptiſme of the buſſhop of Rome, none otherwiſe then in tymes paſſed, y^e holy fathers dyd abhorre the baptyſme of heretykes, or minyſtred by heritykes. For they y^t had bene baptyzed by herytykes and ſcyſmatikes, were baptyzed agayne.

IOIA.

Who dydde euer baptyſe men wyth the baptyſme of the Buſſhoppe of Roome? Dyd the buſſhop of Roome begyn baptiſme?

SIMON.

No, Ihon did begyn baptiſme, but the buſſhops of Rome did adde manye thinges of theyr owne.

IOIADA.

The thynges that were added by the buſſhop of Roome, as ſalte Oyle, coniurynges, &c. are they baptiſme, or parte of baptyſme?Thoughe y^e byſhoppes of Roome hauehave added many thyngs to baptiſme, yet it ought not to be called y^e baptiſme of y^e Byſhope of Rome.

SIMON

Neyther of them, for then, neither Chriſt nor Ihon, had baptyzed truely, whyche dyd not adde thoſe thinges.

IOIADA

If theſe new added thinges are not baptyſme, nor yet parte thereof, whye do ye call it then the baptyſme of the buſſhop of Roome? Or was euer anye man that dyd baptyſe in the name of Clemente, Bonyface, Leo, or Gregorye?

SIMO

No manne.

IOIADA.

In what then were ye baptyzed?

SIMON.

In the name of the father, of the ſonne, and of the holye ghoſte.

IOIADA.

Ergo, ye were not baptyzed in the baptyſme of the Buſſhop of Roome, but in the baptyſme of GOD. And they that baptiſe you nowe, in what, or wyth what wordes doo they baptyſe you?

SYMON.

With water, and in the name of the father, of the ſonne, and of the holye ghoſt

IOIA.

Were ye baptized in the ſame and with the ſame worde in your youth?

SIM.

Yes truely.

IO.

What neadeth thē thys laſte baptiſme? doeſt thou not ſe y^e ye are ſtarke madde?

SIM.

When we were children we knew nothyng of baptiſm. We vow now vntounto god purenes, & a lyfe without ſinnes.

IO.

Could ye not do this without baptiſm? Yf ye could, ye neded no water, yf ye coulde not, the vertue is in y^e water. Ergo, our ſaluatyon is alligated and bounde to the elementtes, agaynſte the nature of faythe and of the ſcriptures. What anſwere canſte thou make here.

SIM.

It is better, that we thus conſecrate our ſelues vntounto god.Anabaptiſtes are like vntounto monkes.

IO

As monkes did heare before tymes bynd themſelues vntounto god with there vowes. Here poyſon is hyddē, y^t ye do chalenge nad attribute vntounto your ſelues pureneſſe of lyfe, ye do deteſt & abhorre other as vnclean, & as the catharians in times paſſed ye do gather and aſſemble vntounto your ſelues a peculiar churche, markyng and ſealyng your ſelues as though ye were the pureſt of all men.Rebaptyzation is a newe ſecte againſte y^e vnytye of the church Wherfore I may well cal your rebaptizatiō a newe ſecte againſt the vnitye of the churche, whiche thynge appeareth more and more by thy words Tell me, I praye the, if youre churche is without ſinnes, or is no more in y^e fleſſhe where is then the loſt & prodigall chylde the ſtraying ſhepe, the fyeld ſowen with cockle and darnel, the net that draweth all kindes of fiſſhes, the ſupper or banket where all they that are bidden, doo ſitte alſo they that hauehave not the bridegromes liuerie. Yf ye be pure & wholl, then hauehave ye no nede of Chriſt, the phiſition of the ſoules. O moſte bolde and ſhameles hipocrytes, O diſguyſed and maſked hery tykes, who hath bidden you, to make dyuiſion afore tyme? Or if ye be ſo holye & pure, when wyll ye of charitye, beare w^t vsus, our heauy burthens, wherewyth we are ouercharged and burdoned, that ye maye fulfyll the lawe of Chriſte? When wyll ye hauehave compaſſyon of our infyrmities? When wyll ye that are ſtrong, take vsus that are weake, vntoo you? Whye do ye cut of and contempne the ſicke and weak members? What are ye but ſciſmatykes?

SIMO.

Thou haſt not yet told why the aunciente fathers dyd baptyſe them agayne, that had bene baptized by heritykes.

IOIADA.

They were not baptized againe,It is no baptiſme onleſſe it be miniſtred in the name of y^e father, the ſonne, and of the holy ghoſte. but they were baptized as they that had not bene baptized. For herytykes dyd denie the trinitie, the god head of Chriſte, and the holy ghoſt. Beſides that, they were not of the churche: Ergo, they had no baptiſme, nor did baptiſe in y^e name of Ieſus, whom they dyd denye. Moreouer, the cuſtome of rebaptizyng, or baptyzing agayn, was not cō monly vſed in the church. For they that had bene baptyzed in the name of the father, of the ſonne, and of the holy ghoſt, were not baptyzed agayne, but were receyued by the impoſition of handes, and alſo were admoniſſhed to perſiſte and abide in the ſinceritie of fayth. This therefore helpeth you nothynge, but rather doth make againſt you. Emong the true chriſtians, ye hauehave no exaumple at all of your rebaptization, but emong theſe auncyent heritikes, that hauehave bene alreadye condempned of the churche. For ye doo renew the hereſyes of Aupentius.The Anabaptiſtes do renew olde hereſyes. Nouatus & Pelagius.

SIM.

What maner of men were they.

IOIA.

In the yere of our lorde .CC.lv. there roſe in Roome, a ceraine man, called Nauatus, a verye arrogante, proude, obſtinate and bold man He did teache,Nonatus errour. that a man after baptiſme was pure and cleane, which pureneſſe yf he had ones loſt through ſinne, he coulde neuer be forgyuen. And if anye man for feare and dreade, or neceſſitie of deathe, had denied Chriſte, that he ought not any more to be receyued intoo the church (thoughe he lamented neuer ſo ſore for hys fall) but that he oughte to be ſeparated, and as a dampned creature, too be ſhunned of all men. Thys thynge dydde cauſe a counſayle of graue and holy men to be gathered at Roome,A counſall agaynſt Nouatus. whiche by the ſcriptures, beynge truelye vnderſtanded did condempne this opinion, as vngodly and herytycall. Yet in the meane ſeaſon, Nouatus dothe not leaue of, nor yet recant his vngodly opinion: but rather did aſſemble and gather a peculyar churche, condempning the churches, where ſynners and repentaunt perſonnes were, he dydde call hys churche pure. Therefore were the Nouatyans,Why the Nouatiās wer called Catharians. called Catharyans. Whome he dydde receyue into his church, them did he bind vntounto his errour & conſecrate vntounto his vnpure clenlynes, by reqaptizatiō or baptizing again. I do not bring theſe thinges out of mine own head, but out of thoſe auncyent doctours, Cornelius, Ciprianus, Dioneſius, Alexandrinus, and Euſebius. Of whome ſome did lyue in Nouatus time.The Nouatians & Anabaptiſtes are lyke in all thynges. Now if thou doſt diligently loke vponupon theſe auncyent Nouatians, & the anabaptyſtes of our tyme y^u ſhalt find very litle difference betwene them, for as Nouatus beinge openly conuinced in that moſt famous counſayle of learned Biſhops, doth not forſake hys errour, but obſtinately dothe defende it. ſo y^e Anabaptiſtes do at this preſent. For howe often hauehave they bene ouerthrowen in the open diſputations, that hauehave bene kepte wyth them in Tigure, Sanctogallum, Berne, Baſile, Conſtance, Argentyne, and Auguſte? And yet for all that, they wyl rather looſe theyr lyfe, then for ſake theyr errour: yea, they do gather & aſſemble peculier churches, they baptiſe agayne, they condempne oure churches as vncleane, they doo atribute vntounto them ſelues, pureneſſe of lyfe, to be ſhorte, they doo all thynges that Nouatus dydde. In the meane ſeaſon, they are ambitious, arrogante, proude, pufte vp, and verye hipocrytes.

SIMON.

I vnderſtande that the Anabaptyſtes are Nouatyans.

What ſayeſt thou of the other two?

IOIA.

Aupentius was buſſhop of Milan,Aupentyus condemneth the baptiſme of childrē. afore Ambroſius, of y^e ſect of Arrius. He did condempne the baptiſme of children His errour was condempned in y^e counſayle of Miluent.

SIMON.

But it foloweth not thereby, that infantes muſte be baptyzed.

IOIADA.

Verelye it foloweth, whych thyng we wyll proue by and by.

¶ The ſecond Dialogue. That the baptyſme of children, is of God.

SIMON.

Whatſoeuer thou ſayeſt, I wyll proue by moſt ſtronge argumentes, that the baptiſme of children is not of god.

IOIADA.

And I wyll gladly heare howe thou canſt do it.The chyef Argumentes of the Anabaptiſtes agaynſte the Baptiſme of infantes.

SIMON.

In the laſt of Marke, Chriſte ſayth to hys apoſtles go throughout all the wholl worlde, and preach the goſpell to eueryevery creature. He that beleueth and is baptyzed, ſhall be ſaued: He that beleueth not, ſhall be condempned. Alſo in the laſte of Mathewe it is wrytten after this maner: Al power is giuen vntounto me in heauen, and in earth goyng therfore teache ye al nations, baptizing in the name of the father, of y^e ſon and of the holy ghoſt. By theſe it ſemeth to folow, and that neceſſarely, that baptiſme ought onelyonly to be miniſtred vntoo them y^t can be taught and inſtructed. For he ſayth firſt, teache them, and then afterwardes: baptyſe them, whereby it foloweth alſo, that baptiſme is a ſigne of the faith that wente before. For he ſaithe: he that beleueth and is baptyzed ſhall be ſaued, Let vsus nowe adde and ioyne vntoo theſe, and ponder dilygently both the examples and factes of Ihon, and of the apoſtles, and that whych I ſay ſhalbe manifeſte and playne. For Ihon dyd baptiſe them onelye, that dyd confeſſe theyr ſinnes.Actes .ii. Chapter. Actes .ii. Chap. Luke doth wryte after this maner: And they which receyued gladlye the worde, were baptyzed. Philip doth then at lengthe baptyſe the ſtewarde of Quene Candace, after that he had declared vntounto him. y^e. liii. Chap. of Eſay, & had queſtioned wyth him of his faith.Actes. viii. Chapter.Acts 8 Actes. viii. chapter. All the apoſtles after that they had preached the Goſpell, and that the faith was receyued, did baptiſe the faithefull. It foloweth then, that baptyſme as a ſigne is due vntounto thē that can both heare and receyue the doctryne. Infantes, becauſe that they want the vſe of reaſon, can neyther heare nor receyue the doctryn, & therfore they hauehave no faythe. For Paule teacheth that faith commeth by hearynge, and hearyng by the word of god. Rom. x. Chap,Roma .x. Sith then that Children can neyther heare, nor vnderſtande the worde of god, they can not beleue. Ergo baptiſme is not due vntoo them, which is a ſigne of the faythe that goeth before. Yf thou canſte,A ſolution to the argumentes of the Anabaptiſtes. anſwere me to theſe: I wil tell and ſet forth, myne other argumentes hereafter.

IOI.

Thou haſt reherſed the chief and principal foundatyons of the Anabaptyſtes, that hauehave anye ſhowe or appearaunce, but thys is noo newe thynge vntounto vsus, whych hauehave learned and red in hyſtories, that aboue three hundreth, xlviii. yeares agone that is to ſaye, in the yeare of Chriſte. M.C. lxxxii. there hauehave bene heretykes,The ſum of the Anabaptiſtes argumēts. that hauehave taught the ſame doctrine. But becauſe, y^t ye do leane vponupon a weake & brickel foundatiō, your fote ſhal eaſely be ſubuerted & ouerthrowen, in al your doctrin ye do moſt vrgently beat this into mens hedes, y^e baptiſme is a ſigne of y^e faithfull or of them that hauehave faith alredy. Infantes or yonge babes hauehave no fayth. Ergo baptiſme ought not to be miniſtred vntounto infantes. In very dede (if the wordes be wel and truly expounded and vnderſtanded) we do gladly graunt this thinge vntounto you: That baptyſme is a ſygne of the faithfull people. But we do not deffyne, cyrcumſcribe,This word fidelis, faithfull or fidel ought not to be limited as the Anabaptiſts wil hauehave it or limite the faythful, as ye do: for yf no man ſhoulde be baptiſed but they that beleue truly, and from a ſincere hearte, Iudas, Simon, of Samaria, Demas. and other hipocrites, had neuer ben baptized. Let no man thus take my ſayinges, although I would hauehave baptyſme to be miniſtred vntounto theym, whome it is manyfeſte and playne to be infydels, but myne intente is to ſhewe, that by thys word, fidelis, faythfull, ſome what more is to be vnderſtanded, then the Anabaptiſtes do expreſſe,

SIMO.

What canſt thou make of a faythfull but a faythfull? I can not vnderſtand how infantes and yong babes can be faithful, ſith that they do wante the vſe of reaſon.

IO.

But in thys buſyneſſe, we do ſoo ſpeake of the faythfull that we do in noo wiſe exclude the children from the number of thē, ſyth that the children and infantes are of god whome god doth alwaies admitte and receyue into his churche emonge the faythfull.

SIM.

It behoueth the to hauehave proued the ſame,Who be y^e fideles & faythfull. Gene. xvii Chapter. O comfortable ſayinge, both to vsus and too oure children.Gen 17 as I hauehave alredy proued y^e contrary,

IOI.

I wil proue it. Geneſis xvii. chapi. Where god doth make a couenaunt with Abraham. the lorde doth peculyarly comprehend the chyldren in the couenaunt, for he ſayth. I ſhall be thy god, and y^e god of thy ſede after the. And afterwards he commaundeth the infantes to be cyrcumciſed vponupon the eyght daye, & to receyue y^e ſigne of the Teſtament. Wherby it foloweth that god is not only the god of thē that be of age, and canne beleue in God, but alſo of the infante,Children are fideles or faithful and be in y^e churche the members of Chriſte. which for lacke of age can not yet beleue, for they through grace and the promyſe, are receyued in to the couenaunt and number of y^e faythfull.

SIM.

I care not for the olde Teſtamente of the Iewes, theſe olde thynges are aboliſhed by y^e goſpel.

IO.

By Ieſu Chriſt the ceremonies are aboliſhed and the figures fulfylled,What parte of y^e olde teſtament is abolyſhed by Chriſt. but the couenaunte made with Abraham, ſtandeth ſtyll. Elles god were not our god, and the God of our ſede, and ſhuld be made by Chriſt more vnmerciful and more ſtraunge, thē he was to the aunciaunte fathers before Chriſt. Which to thynke, were a foolyſh thyng, that I ſhould not ſay an vngodly, ſpecially ſyth that in the newe Teſtamente,The faythfull are the chyldren of Abrahā. Roma. iiii. Gala. iiii. Mat. viii. Luke .xiii. and .xix. Chapter. Ihon .i. Chapter.Gal 4Matt 8 alſoo the faythfull are called the chyldren of Abraham. Rom. iiii. Gal. iiii Mat. viii. Luk. xiii. & .xix. Chap. Beſides theſe, Chriſt w^c expreſſe words, doth ſay: Suffer yonge children to come vntounto me, for to ſuche doth belong y^e kingdō of heauē. Paul ſpeaking of y^e children of y^e chriſtians, ſaithe: Youre chyldren are cleane: How ſhould that be, onleſſe it were thorow grace, mercy, & the promiſe of god? It foloweth then, that the children of y^e chriſtians, are of god, & ought to be numbred emong the children of god.

SIM.

Theſe thinges do altogether repugne vntounto the ſcriptures and goſpell, as thoughe y^e carnall birth ſhould auaile ſome thyng before god, wheras Ihon ſaith: Whych were not borne of bloud, nor of y^e will of the fleſh, or of man, but were born of god Ye ſay that the chyld doth belong to the church, becauſe that his parentes are of the churche.

IOIA.

We doo ſaye thys through the grace & mercy of god, wherof is the promiſe: The children are of the churche, not for theyr carnall generation & birth, but for the promiſe of god, whyche he hath promyſed, that he wil be the god of the children.

SIM.

What if the parentes of the childe,Whether y^e children of them, y^e feygne thē ſelues to beleue ought to be baptized Act. viii. ChapterActs 8 ſhuld feigne their fayth, and not beleue truely: ſhould not theſe children be borne of vnchriſtian parentes, and therfore ought not to be baptyzed?

IOIA.

I aſke the, Symon, dyd Symon Magus of Samaria, beleue or not?

SIMON.

He dyd not beleue, but he did feygne hym ſelfe to beleue.

IOI

What yf thy ſayinges be repugnaunte vntounto the ſcriptures?

SIMO.

I do not thinke it.

IOIA.

I will ſhewe the therfore. Act. viii. chap. it is writtē after this maner: When they of Samaria had gyuen credyte vntounto Philippe, which preached vntounto them of y^e kingdome of god, & of y^e name of Ieſu Chriſt, they were baptized both men & women. Then dyd Simon Magus beleue alſo and being baptized dyd ioyne hymſelfe, too Philippe

SIMON.

He did beleue, that is to ſay he did confeſſe the faith with his mouth and ſayd that he did beleue.

IOIADA

This y^t I ſay, this word fidele, or faithful is of a larger ſygnificatyon, and can not be ſo narowly taken, which thinge thou thy ſelfe doſt graunte with me, being cō ſtrayned therto, by the aucthoritie of the ſcriptures. But I aſke y^e, why did Philyp baptiſe hym, ſith that he dyd not beleue truely? Diddeſt thou not ſay before that baptyſme oughte too be myniſtred vntounto no man, except he doth beleue truely? and that baptiſm is a ſigne of y^e faith that goeth afore?

SIM.

Becauſe y^t he ſaide wyth y^e other, that he did beleue in Chriſte, Philyp dothe not ſe the hearte, but being contente wyth the confeſſyon of the mouth, doth pronounce and baptyſe.God only ſeeth the hearte.

IOIA.

So thou ſhuldeſt hauehave ſpoken and confeſſed, that god onelye ſeeth the heart, and that we oughte to be contente w^t the outward confeſſyon, & vponupon this confeſſion to baptiſe. Sith then that y^e father of y^e infant, doth confeſſe y^e fayth w^t his mouthe, and ſaith y^t he beleueth in Chriſt Ieſus, moreouer doth beleue and confeſſe y^t god is his god, & the god of his ſede, and y^t he doth therefore brynge hys chylde vntounto baptiſme, it is conuenient & mete, y^t we beleue his wordes: & thoughe ſome time we doubt of y^e words of the father, yet know we y^t the chylde ſhall not beare the iniquitye of y^e father, and y^t the carnall generation doth make nothynge to this, but y^t they are, and ſhal be called the children of god, which partayne too the free election and gratuite promyſe of god. Do not all men knowe,Ezechias. y^t Ezechias being a faithful king, was borne of a wicked parent? But yet this thing did harm or hinder him nothing at all:Eſau. euen as Eſau got no profit therby, y^t he was borne of a godly parent: ergo y^e election of god doth remain fre.

SIM.

What if y^e child y^t is brought to baptiſm, were not of y^e elect? were it not better y^t a man ſhuld thē at length be baptized, whē we ſhuld ſe & perceiue y^t he is of y^e elect? For they whiche are not elected, are not of god, & they that are not of god, ought not to be baptyzed.

IOIA.

When ſhuldeſt thou thē baptyſe him that came at the euening in too the vineyarde? when ſhouldeſt thou baptiſe y^e thief on y^e croſſe? By this mean no man ſhould be baptized, and baptiſm ſhoulde be abolyſhed, for the electyon of god, is not alwaies knowē vntounto vsus: yea, we ſhulde by that meane, take that vponupon vsus which belongeth to god only:God only knoweth who be elected and who be not. for god onelyonly doth ſearche the heart & knoweth only, which be elected, & which be not. I do let paſſe, y^t we coulde not thus auoyd the hipocrites. For Simon Magus did feigne his faith wherby ye anabaptiſtes do iudge & meaſure y^e election, and yet he was not elected.Iſmael and Eſau were not elected, & they were cyrcumciſed. Other that are alredy of age may do the ſame. But tell me, were Iſmael, and Eſau elected or not?

SIM

They were not elected.

IO.

When they were yet babes and infantes, were they numbred emong y^e people of god, or not?

SI.

I can not tell.

IO.

But it behoued y^t to know it, ſyth that thou takeſſe ſuche matters in hand. That they wer of y^e people of god, I proue it by the circumciſion They were circumciſed by y^e commaundement of god: circumciſion was y^e ſigne of the people of god, ergo, in their infancie they were the children of god, and alſo they weare of the people of god, yea, though they were not elected. It is plain and manifeſte by the lyfe that folowed, y^e they were not elected and choſen.

SIM

I could wel graunt, that they were of y^e people of god, but I can not recken them emonge the faythefull.

IOIA.

Are not they, that be of y^e people of god, faithful?

SIM.

They that be of age are faithfull infantes and yonge babes, can not be ſo for they can not profeſſe theyr faith.

IO

Ye ſynge alwayes one ſonge, haſte thou not heard a great while agone, that chyldren, though they can not confeſſe theyr fayth, are rekened emonge the faythfull Or is god onelyonly the god of them that are of age, and not alſo of the chyldren? Or dyd Chriſt ſuffer onelyonly for them that are of age, and not alſo for the Chyldren?

SIMON.

He dyd ſuffer for the ſatyſfactyon of all the ſynnes of the whole world.

IOIADA.

HaueHave the Chyldren anye ſynne?

SIMON.

They hauehave the origynall ſynne.Chyldren are reſtored by Chryſte, and not only they that be of age.

IOIADA.

Syth then that Paule ſayeth, that whatſoeuer was fallen by Adam, the ſame was reſtored by Chriſte, and not onelyonly they, that be of age, but alſo Chyldren, be loſte in Adam, It foloweth that children are reſtored agayne by Chriſt, Yf they be reſtored by Chryſt, they are of God, & ought to be ſealed, with the ſeale of the people of god Baptiſme is the ſeale of y^e people of god Ergo, chyldren ought too be baptyzed.

SIMON.

Proue that baptiſme is the ſigne or ſeale of the people of god.

IOI

I proue that by your owne confeſſyon. For ye ſay that baptiſme is the ſygne of the faythfull.Actes. x. Chapter. What is to receue the holy ghoſte.Acts 10 I proue beſydes, by y^e wordes of Peter, whyche Actes. x. Chapter ſpeaketh after thys maner. Whoo can forbyd them to be baptyzed, that hauehave receyued the holy goſt as well as we?

SIMON.

But children hauehave not receiued the holye ghoſte.

IOIA.

In this place to receyue the holy goſt, is too receyue a wytnes that we are of god, whych receiueth vsus, and that we are clenſed and purged by god.Act. x. xi. xv. Chap.Acts 10 This may be proued by the x. xi. and .xv. Chapter of Actes. Chyldren are clenſed & purged by God: ergo, they hauehave the ſpiryte of god. If they hauehave the ſpiryt of god, they are of God, and baptiſme is due vntoo them: as it is ſuffycyently proued by the olde and new Teſtamente.

SYMON.

Yf Chriſt ſhould ſay The kyngdome of heauen belongeth vntounto them, I would eaſely agre to the, but he ſayth not vntounto them, but vntounto ſuche.

IOIADA.

But thou moſt thynke and conſyder, y^t there muſt be ſome lykeneſſe and affinitye betwen the thinges that are compared together. I can not ſaye, If thou wylt be ſaued, do as Iudas dyd, for Iudas is not ſaued: but damned. If the chyldren wer not of god, nor y^e kingdom of heauen theirs: the Lorde had not ſaide. Yf ye wyll enter into the kyngdome of heauē: be ye made as theſe chyldren are. Therfore when he ſayeth: vntounto ſuche, he ſheweth that chyldren are ſuch, as he wil hauehave them to be, that are of god.

SIM.

It were better, to proue with expreſſe teſtimonyes of the ſcripture, that children hauehave the ſpiryte of god.

IOI.

By what argumentes, wylte thou hauehave thoſe thynges that are playne and manyfeſt, to be proued vntounto the? But heare thou, a more playne teſtimonye. Paule. Romaine. viii. faythe: that he that hath not the ſpirite of god, is not his. Wherby it foloweth that he, which is of god, hath y^e ſpirite of god, the chyldren are of god: Ergo, they hauehave the ſpirit of god.Children hauehave y^e ſpirite of god Yf thei hauehave y^e ſpirite of god, then ought thei by good ryght to be baptized. For Peter ſayeth: who can forbyd them, y^t hauehave receuid the holy ghoſt, to be baptyzed.

SIMON.

I wyll not contende. Howe beit I merueyl, that it is ſo expreſſely ſaid. Teche ye, baptizyng. Agayn, y^t Peter baptized thē which reaceaued gladly y^e worde: ſo lykewiſe Philip did baptiſe y^e ſteward of Quene Candace.Howe the places aleged by the Anabapteſtes ought to be vnderſtanded.

IO.

Both y^e places and examples, which y^u haſt brought & aleged, ought to be vnderſtanded of them y^t are of age, and not of chyldren. Chriſt did not ſende hys diſciples to preche y^e goſpel vntounto chyldrē but vntounto thē y^e were of age & had y^e vſe of reaſon. Nor we do not teache, y^t children ought to be baptiſed in thoſe places, wher y^e goſpel was neuer preched. But wher y^e word of god & the holy goſpel, hath ben both preched & alſo receiued by faith, it is no dout, but there it is both taught & beleued, y^t the childrē are of god, and y^t it is y^e wil of god, y^t the childrē, which be of god ſhould be ſealed w^t baptiſm, & in a maner brought vntounto god.The doctrine is greter thē y^t baptiſm Therfore they are not excluded from y^e people of god, but are receyued and rekened emonge y^e people of god. Or elles tell me Symon, whether of the twoo is greater, baptiſme or the doctryne?

SIMON.

The doctryne is greater than Baptyſme.

IOIADA.

What is the doctrine?

SIMO.

The holy goſpel: For Marke ſaith: Go thoroughout all the wholle worlde, and preche the goſpell vntounto eueryevery creature: Mathewe lykewyſe: Teache them to kepe what ſoeuer I hauehave commaunded you.

IOIADA.

Dothe then thys goſpell teache that the chyldren are not of God?

SIMON.

No, elles it ſhould be harder & more vnmercifull then the lawe.

IOIO.

Doth Chriſt cōmande his diſcyples to preache that chyldren oughte too be reiected and caſte awaye?

SIMON?

Noo, But rather he dothe chyde hys dyſcyples becauſe that they rebuked theym, that broughte children vntounto hym.

IOIAD

Thus I doo conclude then, ſyth that in theſe wordes of Chryſte. (Teache Baptiſe) the doctryne is more excellente and greater, and yet chyldren are not forbydden it, but rather broughte vntounto it: It foloweth that they are not forbydden baptyſme, which is leſſe,Infantes that dye without baptiſme are notte dampned but rather ought to be brought vntounto it. Thus it is manyfeſt and playne, that thys commaundement of Chriſt ſtandeth w^t vsus, and not w^t you.

SI.

It ſhuld folow y^t the infants which die w^out baptiſm, are not dampned.

IO

That foloweth plainly, & alſo this dothe folowe, that thou being ouercōmen with the truth, doſt ſeke how to bring me into an other purpoſe, leaſt I ſhould bind the more ſtraightly.

SIM.

I confeſſe that I can ſay nothinge againſte ſo manyfeſt truthe. But I hauehave broughte this of the children, to the intent that thou ſhuldeſt teache and inſtructe me in thys poynte.

IOIA.

Iuſtifying & ſaluatyon is much leſſe bound to the outward elements thē in tymes paſſed in the law.Why the infante is baptiſed. Heb. ix. chap The infante therfore is not baptized for this intent, y^t by baptiſm, y^t is to ſaie: by y^e outward waſſhyng of water, he ſhuld be made y^e child of god, but he is therfor baptized becauſe he was afore y^e child of god throughe grace & promiſe. Wherefore if they die afore that y^e water of baptiſm be poured vponupon thē, they are neuertheles y^e children of god, & are ſaued through the grace and promyſſe of god, by the force & ſtrength of the couenaunt, by the ſatiſfactiō of Ieſus Chriſt, y^t he made on y^e croſſe, for all mankynde. In the generalitye of mankynd, not only they, that are of age, but alſo children are included.

SIMO.

By thys meane, we ſhuld nede no baptiſme. For if the chylde is alredye before the chyld of god, what good doth y^e water? wherby this alſo ſhould folow, that baptiſme is bare water.We ought to ſpeake reuerently of y^e Sacramentes The outewarde elementes & ſignes beinge omitted & lefte in neceſſytie can not dampne one. The baptiſme of bloude.

IOIAD.

We muſt ſpeake more reuerently of the ſacramentes. None of the faithfull is ſo alligated and bound to the elementes, and outward thinges, that they may condemne him if they be omitted and left in neceſſitie: for the bloude of Ieſus Chriſt, hath clenſed him. I do call neceſſitie, as when a chyld departeth before baptiſm, or whē a man, beyng conuerted to the faith, is afore he can be baptyzed, taken to martyr do…n, which thing was often times done in y^e primitiue churche, for vntounto hym the croſſe was in ſteade of baptiſme, wherefore the auncient fathers did call it y^e baptiſme of bloud. Howbeit no man ought to neglecte or contempne the order that Chriſt hath inſtituted, nor to deſpyſe baptiſme, if he may hauehave it. If he contempneth or doth neglect to receiue baptiſme when he may hauehave it, he is noo chriſtian, but y^e diſciple of Iulianus & Porphirius For if baptiſm were vnprofitable, Chriſt would not hauehave inſtituted it. All thinges that Chriſte hath gyuen and lefte vntoo vsus, are excellente, holye, and profytable. Ergo, baptiſm is not onelyonly profitable vntounto vsus, but alſo moſte neceſſarye: Farther more, we do adde thys alſo, that baptiſm touchyng y^e mattyer, is water, and yet it ought not to be cōtemned and caſt awai, or eſtemed as the comon water of y^e well. For the water is onelyonly parte of it, and a certayne ſigne.The whol action of baptiſme conteyneth great myſteryes But the wholle action cō teyneth a greate myſterye, and an honorable ſacrament. Wherfore it was called by y^e holy fathers, a purging, & remiſſion of ſynnes, alſo, regeneracion or renuyng, and other lyke names. Not that y^e water hath y^e ſtrength to purge or renewe. For then Symon of Samaria, Iudas, Himeneus, Phyletus, and other falſe brethern and hipocrites had bene clenſed and renued, for then were waſſhed with the water of Baptiſm. But it is playne and manyfeſte, y^t they were not purged inwardely, but defiled with all iniquitye and wyckedneſſe, that they were not the chyldren of god, but the chyldren of the diuell. Whē therfore theſe godly & ſpiritual things are attributed vntounto baptiſme, they be not attributed vntounto y^e outward waſſhing, but to y^e wholl action, which conteyneth the faith of y^e miniſter, of y^e church & of him y^t is baptized, alſo y^e grace, election & promiſe of god. It is then chiefly attributed vntounto y^e, which is ſignifyed by y^e pouryng on of y^e water.

SI.

what is ſignified thē?What is ſignifyed by the pouryng on of the water.

IO.

That he whych is baptized, is of y^e people of god, & that he is clenſed inwardlye by y^e grace of the holy ghoſt, y^e wholſome water, y^t he is waſſhed by y^e bloud of Chriſt. & initiated vntounto a new lyf, euen as water doth waſſhe and clenſe y^e outward filtheneſſe.

SIM.

verie well, Syth, then that the myſteries of batiſme are ſo hygh excellente, & holy, why,Circumciſion was in tymes paſſed, a great ſacrament. I pray y^t are they geuen & miniſtred to infantes, y^t are not able to receyue ſo excellent thinges?

IO

Was not circumciſion in tymes paſſed, a great ſacrament, a ſigne of y^e people of god, & an initiation or entraunce into the true fayth and innocency of lyfe. Deu. x. Hier. iiii. Roma ii & iiii Cha. And yet it was geuen & miniſtred to y^e chyldrē, whiche long after wer inſtructed in the lawe. Deu. vi. Whie ſhuld we not do y^e ſame? Why ſhuld we not ſeale our children beyng newly born w^t y^e ſeale of y^e people of god? & whē thei be of age, bring thē into knowlege of y^e goſpel? Of this,Confirmation. did ſprīg among aūctant fathers cōfirmaciō or biſſhoping, y^t is to ſay, an eſtablyſhyng of thoſe thinges, that were begonne in baptiſme. The chyldren were brought forthe, they were aſked of their faythe, of the Lordes prayer & other neceſſary articles, wherin they were inſtructed & confirmed. Wherfore they that dyd bryng the chyldren to baptiſm, are witneſſes that the child whiche is brought, is borne of chryſtian parentes, aſkyng both in theyr name, and in the parentes name, that the ſeale of the people of god may be geuen & miniſtred vntounto the childe. Wherfore they be called in oure vulgare tonge godfathers & god motheres, becauſe that they brynge the chylde to god, and wytneſſe that he is of god, promyſing that they wyl bryng vp the chylde in the true fayth, if nede ſhuld require. Yf ye aſke, by what ſcripturs we do ſtrenghten theſe oure ſainges, we doo bryng vntounto you the Analogye, or cōueniencie of the ceremones of the olde lawe, y^t is to ſay, of circumciſion: For euē as in circumciſion the chyldren were brought vntounto y^e Lord, ſo we do read in y^e goſpell y^e chyldren were brought vntounto Chriſt.

SI

I do lette theſe thynges paſſe nowe, & retourne vntounto the fyrſte. Thou dyddeſt ſay yf I remember well, that where Chriſt is not preached, y^t mē muſt be taught fyrſte and then at length baptized.They ought not to goo aboute to baptiſe where the goſpell is not preached.

IOIA.

So it is, nor it can be done none otherwyſe (as thou thy ſelf doeſt knowe) for yf any man ſhuld come in to Greekland where y^e Turke doth now raygn, & there wold baptiſe, afore he had taught: ſhould not loſe his labour, for men beynge not yet taught what baptiſme is, or what it ſygnyfieth, wold neyther thē ſelues receyue baptiſme, nor ſuffer it to be miniſtred vntounto their chyldren.

SIM.

Did not, I prai y^t, the Iues knowe, y^e god was their god & the god of their chyldren?

IO.

They kenw it ryght wel, & therfore they circūciſed their childrē.

SIM.

what nedeth thē ani preaching emong y^e Iues, y^t knew god alredy before? Why did they not by & by bryng & intiate y^e children by baptiſme vntounto Chriſt?

IO.

The Apoſtles did preache baptiſm againſt circumciſiō. The Iues w^c toth & nail defended circūciſion. Therfore ther was nede of long preaching emong the Iues, that they myght vnderſtand y^e baptiſme ſhuld be in ſted of circumciſion.

SIM.

The anabaptiſtes do ſay that ye teache theſe thynges without the ſcriptures.

IO.

Thei ſhuld eaſely vnderſtand y^e baptiſm is com in y^e ſtede of circumciſiō if they woulde diligently looke vponupon the vſe of them both. For in baptiſme, as in tymes paſſed in circumciſion, the name is geuē vntounto chyldren. So it is wrytten. Luc ii chapter. But theſe thynges are of lytle weyght emong you. Therfore we do referre all our ſaynges to the Actes of the Apoſtles. x. xi. xv. and Colloſſe .ii. chapte. For there Paul doth comforte the faythfull that were of the gentyles, & byddeth them that they ſhuld not be ſory, becauſe they were not circūciſed: for why? Baptiſme was the circumciſion of y^e faythful.

SIMON.

But there he doth playnely and with expreſſe wordes ſpeake of y^e circumciſion y^t is done without handes, vnderſtandyng therby a renewynge of the mynd & of y^e inward man.

IO.

We ſpeak of none other. But in the meane ſeaſon Paule dothe meane that Iewyſſhe circumcyſyon, that was done in the priuye membre wyth a flynte ſtone, and wyth handes. I ſaye that ye are cyrcumcyſed, O ye Colloſſenſes, and hauehave a cyrcumcyſyon, not that cyrcumcyſion that is done wyth handes, but in ſtede of y^e bodelye & outwarde circumciſion, ye hauehave Chriſtes circumciſiō, y^t is to ſay, baptiſme. For as by circumciſion, y^e cuttyng away of affections was ſignified: ſo by y^e waſſhing, done in y^e water of baptiſm, the purging & clenſing frō ſin, is fygurated & betokened. That thys is the true meaning & ſence of this place I wil proue by the very words of Paul In Chriſt (ſaith he) ye are complet, whiche is y^e head of all rule & power, by whō ye are circumciſed w^t the circumcyſion y^t is made wythout handes, when ye dyd put of the ſinfull body of the fleſh, by the circumciſion of Chriſt, being buried together with him, through baptiſme, in the which alſo ye be riſen w^t him, by the faith wrought in you of god, which raiſed him frō the dead. Bring hether to thys place y^t .vi. to the Rom. & conferre them together, and y^u ſhalt vnderſtand y^e baptiſm is called the circumciſion of Chriſt, & alſo y^e baptiſme hath bene placed in the ſtede of y^e circumciſion. VponUpon theſe things I do conclude after this maner: Yong childrē were in times paſſed, circumciſed. Baptiſm occupieth the place & roum of circū ciſion: ergo, our childrē muſt be baptized

SI.

What, on y^e .viii. day?

IO.

We are bound neither to time nor too place, but we are fre frō all thoſe thinges by Chriſt Al thinges thē being conſidered,We are free from al outward ceremonies of the lawe by Chriſt. it is manifeſt and plaine, that the baptiſm of children is of god, againſt y^e which, ſith that the anabaptiſtes do repugne, it is wythout doubt. that they do contrary the goſpell, the election of God, and the euerlaſting couenaunt. They are therfore ouer bold & raſh, they are open violatours or breakers of y^e couenaunt of god, vnfaith ful againſt god, ſith that they do exclude and debarre them from the couenaunt of God, whome gods grace dothe comprehende in the couenaunte.

SIMON.

Yet ye hauehave no expreſſe word of God, y^e children ought to be baptized.

IOIA.

Shall not all that we hauehave hetherto aledged and brought, proue y^e ſame? But go to, put the caſe that we hauehave no expreſſe word therof in the ſcriptures. Tell thou, where hauehave ye one expreſſe word y^e chyldren ought not to be baptyzed?

SIM.

Teache baptyzyng. Agayn: They came and confeſſed theyr ſinnes. Item: They that receiued the word gladly. were baptyzed.Baptiſme is in the ſtead of circumciſion. And he that beleueth and is baptized.

IOIA.

I hauehave anſwered alredy before to all theſe: but ſo ye are wont to repeate eueryevery foote, your bald reaſons and argumentes.The Anabaptiſtes are prompte & quicke to ſpeake, but not redye to gyue place to y^e truthe. For ye are very prompt & quicke to ſpeake, but not ſo ready to giuegive place to the truth. I hauehave not yet hearde in all thine allegations, any ſuche ſaying or ſentence. Childrē ought not to be baptized.

SIM.

But that doth folow of y^e places afore alledged.

IOIA.

Thys is neither commaunded there, nor yet forbydden. Beſydes that, your conſequences are falſe, and wythoute foundatyon. If ye be nothinge aſhamed of youre falſe conſequences, we wyll be nothinge aſhamed of our true. Therefore when ye crye out ſaying. Where doth y^e ſcripture teach that children ought to be baptiſed? we crye agayne: Where doth y^e ſcripture forbid to baptyſe them? Ye do anſweare in the laſt of Marke. We bring agaynſt you. Gene .xvii. Marke .x. i. Corinth. vii. Acte. x. Colloſſ. ii Chap. Moreouer, we do ſubmit theſe our ſayinges and writinges, to the iudgement of all godlye perſons. Whether that it be more like vntounto the truth, that they do exclude & debarre the children whom Chriſt hath waſſhed with his bloud, from y^e couenaunt of god (for why do they denye vntounto them, the ſigne of the couenaunte: and of the clenſinge?) or y^t we do teche y^e children to be of god, redemed by Chriſt Ieſus, whom he biddeth & wylleth to be brought vntounto him, & alſo too be baptized? Iudge thou Symon, and tell me whether of theim is more like to be true.

SIM.

If the matter be conſidered by it ſelfe, all contentiō being laid aſide, y^e whiche ye ſay is moſte true, and moſt weightie. But this I doo wonder and maruaile at, that thou doſte ſay, that the baptiſme of children hath cō tinued in the church, euer ſince the tyme of the apoſtles, which apoſtles did neuer baptiſe chyldren. Here I doo moſte earneſtly deſire the to bringe furthe whatſoeuer thou haſt yet in ſtore, I wyll gladly receyue all truthe: for manye of vsus hauehave thought hetherto, y^t y^e baptiſm of children was brought in by the buſſhop of Rome

¶ The third Dialogue. That the baptyſme of chyldren hath contynued in the church of Chriſt, euer ſince y^e apoſtles, vntounto this time.

IOIADA.

No man can denye, but y^e the buſſhop of Rome & the fathers hauehave added certaine things to y^e baptiſm of Chriſt, but no mā y^t is wiſe, will ſay y^t it had his beginnyng of them, that is to ſay, that did begin the baptiſme of children. Thoſe things then that were added, and were repugnaunte vntounto the word of god, were taken away againe, leſt any man ſhould make any buſines for it. As for that, that ye bringe againſt vsus, that the apoſtles did neuer baptyſe children, no man lyuyng is able too proue it. For I wyll ſhew no ſmall argumentes, that the apoſtles did baptiſe children, wherby y^u ſhalt eaſely vnderſtand y^t the baptiſme of children hath contynued in the church of Chriſt, euer ſince the apoſtles time, & that it is no new inuentiō of the buſſhop of Rome.i Certayne argumentes againſt the Anabaptiſtes. Firſt, we do make our argument vponupon the force & ſtrength of y^e precept and cōmaundement of chriſt & of the doctrine, after this maner: Chriſt did ſend his diſciples to preche the goſpel & to baptiſe: ergo, he did ſend thē to baptiſe childrē.The proue of y^e conſequence, or argument

SI.

I denye y^e conſequence

IO.

But I wil proue it after this maner It is ſo farre, y^t the goſpel ſhuld: reiecte & caſt backe the chyldren, y^t it dothe rather bring thē vntounto Chriſt. Now the doctrine is greater then baptiſme .i. Cor. i. cha. If y^e, which is greater, y^t is to ſay, the goſpel is the chyldrens, that then, which is laſſe that is to ſay, baptiſme ſhal be theirs, Ergo, the apoſtles dyd baptiſe the chyldren

ijThe ſeconde argument may be made and gathered vponupon the nature of him, to whome baptyſme is due, and whyche is able too receyue baptiſme. As manye as god doth recken emong y^e fideles or faithfull, they are fideles, or faithfull. For Peter dyd heare this ſayinge of the Lorde. That god hath purifyed or made cleane, call thou it not common or vncleane. Actes. x. chapter. He doth put the chyldren in the number of the faithfull: Ergo, the children are of the number of the fideles or faithfull, and oughte to be compted & reputed of vsus emong the fideles, or faithfull, onleſſe we will repugne againſt god and be ſtronger then he. Now it is moſt certayne, that the apoſtles did baptiſe all them that Chryſt commaunded them to baptyſe. Chriſte commaunded them too baptyſe the faythfull (as ye youre ſelues do graunt and confeſſe) Ergo, the Apoſtles did baptyſe the chyldren. The ſeconde propoſition (which is, that the children are of the number of the faythfull) is knowen well ynough.

iii.The thyrd argument is gathered vponupon y^e fact of Peter, which is peculier, but yet in it y^e publike adminiſtraction of baptiſm is touched. He coulde not forbyd theym the water of baptiſme, y^t had receyued the holy ghoſt, but ſealed them as the people of god. Ergo, he could not deny baptiſme vntounto y^e children, ſyth y^t he had learned in the goſpel y^t the chyldren be of god, & that the kyngdom of heauen is theyrs. Who woulde thynke, y^t any man is mete for the kyngdom of heauen, w^tout y^e holy ſpiryt?

iiii.We do make & gather the fourth argument vponupon the ſtrength & force of circumciſion, in ſtede wherof, baptiſme is in the church of Chriſt. As many as were y^e ſeruātes of god, did afore al thinges, labour & endeuour thēſelues, to circumciſe theyr childrē. Ioſu. v. Exo. iiii. The Apoſtles were the moſt faithfull miniſters of god: Thē did not thei omit or leaue y^e thinge, y^t was not brought in, in ſtede of y^e circumciſion, Ergo, thei did baptiſe, not onli thē that were of age, but alſo children.

v.Fyftely we do thus reaſon vpō the vſe & cuſtome of y^e Apoſltes. The Apoſtles of Chriſt did dyrecte al their doinges to the cōueniencie & example of y^e old teſtamēt.

This we do proue by y^e. iiii. Euangeliſts, duplicate page duplicate page the Actes of y^e apoſtles, by the epiſtles of y^e Apoſtles, Rom. xv. ii. Cor. ii. ii. Tim. iii. ii. Peter .i. chap. Ergo, they dyd order baptiſme after the Analogie and figure of the old Teſtament. The going through y^e red ſea,The goynge thorough y^e read ſea, is a figure of baptiſm was a type & figure of y^e baptiſme y^t was to come .i. Cor. x. cha. Children were in the fygure (for bothe men and women went through with theyr children) Ergo the apoſtles dyd not denie baptiſme vntounto the children. The cuſtome & maner of the ſcripture (whiche cuſtome and maner is vſed almoſt emong al nations) is not to reherce by name, women & children, and yet neuertheleſſe it doth include them, for in y^e name of the father of y^e famylie, or of the good man of the houſe, al hys whole famylie is comprehended, as in the chiefe or head. Yf thys were not, women ſhuld be in no ſmall ieoperdy, yf therfore they were not of god, becauſe y^t they be not circumciſed. Al theſe thynges are done, by y^e meanes & helpe of a figure y^t is called Sinecdoche. The ſixte argument ſhalbe taken out of y^e manifeſt and expreſſe teſtimonies of the apoſtles. The apoſtles did baptyſe al whol houſholds and famylies, ergo they did baptyſe children alſo, for the children are in y^e number of y^e famylie or houſholde. Thys we do proue by y^e .xvii of Gene. For Abraham doth circumciſe al the male children y^t were in his houſe. For he vnderſtode y^e promys of god, that ſaith. I ſhal be thy god, & the god of thy ſede. Likewyſe in y^e new Teſtament, whē the goodman of the houſe, had herd & beleued y^e goſpell, that is to ſaie, y^e god was his god, & the god of his ſede alſo, he cauſed all them that were in his houſe bothe greate and ſmall, to be baptized. Thus y^e apoſtles dyd baptize hole houſholds and famylies. That the children do perteyne vntounto y^e fathers houſholde & famylie, it is plaine & manifeſt by the .xii. of Exodus & ii. of the Actes: this do I inculcat & beate the oftener into mens heades, becauſe y^t I ſe the Anabaptiſtes to be at this poynt that they do exclude y^e children from y^e famylie & houſhold. for they can not denye but y^e hole houſholds were baptized by y^e Apoſtles. But who doth not ſe, that this cometh of mere contention? For though they could proue that there were no children at all in the famylies & houſholdes, that y^e apoſtles dyd baptiſe, yet had they not proued that al families or houſholds were, or be w^tout childrē: wherfore we do make againe our argument after this maner The Apoſtles baptized al wholl houſholdes, ergo, thei did baptiſe children, ſyth y^e childrē are y^e princypal & chief part of the familie & houſhold. But let vsus put y^e caſe, y^t there were no children in thoſe families & houſholds, y^t the Apoſtles dyd baptiſe, yet do they perteine & belong to y^e houſhold, & are rekened in it, and yf there had bene any, they wolde hauehave baptized thē. For they did baptiſe y^e wholl houſholde. The fault then ſhuld not hauehave ben in the Apoſtles nor in y^e childrē, y^t thei were not baptized: but this had bene the cauſe that they had bene baptized, becauſe y^t there were none: For if they had had children they would hauehave baptyzed them.

Seuenthlye, we do gather by the hyſtoryes & chronicles that the baptiſme of children hath continued euer ſens the apoſtles time, vntounto this time. Origene, which in the yeare of our ſaluation .c.c. & .xii. did liue in y^e church of Alexandria, doth in his v. boke, y^t he did wryt vponupon y^e epiſtle to the Romaines, teſtifie and witneſſe y^t he hath receaued y^e baptiſme of children, from, or of y^e Apoſtles. After this time, about the yeare of oure Lorde. C.C.lv. y^e holy man Cipryan was, he doth proue, & that with no ſmall argumentes, y^e baptiſme of children, in the .iii. boke of hys Epiſtles, and viii. epiſtle Adfidum, To fidus. In y^e yere of our lord .c.c.c.xx. Lactantius did wryte in y^e .iiii. boke of his diuyne Inſttucion, y^e baptiſm was come in y^e ſtede of circūciſiō whereby all natyons ſhould be gathered vntounto the faith, & into the church.Lactantius in hys iiii. boke, & iiii. chapte Hierome which did lyue about the yere of our lord c.c.c. & lxx. doth w^t playn & expreſſe ſcriptures proue y^e baptiſm of children to Leta and agaynſt y^e Pelagians. In y^e ſame ſelf tyme and .xl. yeares after. Auguſtyn, beyng a man endued with great holyneſſe of lyfe, with exceading great erudition & learnyng, & with a ſharpe and exacte iugement did teche in Aphrica. This man writeth many thinges of baptiſm againſt y^e Donatiſtes, to Marcellinus & Petilianus, where he doth manifeſtely ſaye,Chryſte coulde not be baptized afore y^e baptiſm was inſtituted by Ihō. For the lawe dyd regne tyll them. that the church hath receiued the baptiſme of children, from y^e apoſtles. I hauehave brought theſe thynges therfore y^t thou mayſte ſee & vnderſtand, that y^e baptiſme of children is no new inuention, & that they whyche teche ſuche thinges do leane to no truth, but to plaine errour. For although chriſt was not baptized, tyll he was .xxx. yeares old, yet being an infant he was circūciſed vponupon y^e eyght daye, that I ſhoulde in the meane ſeaſon let paſſe, that baptiſme was not yet inſtituted, which had hys begynnyng of Ihon. But now we wyll ſtryke vp our ſayle clothes, and ſhewe how vnkunninglye ye gather your argumentes, when ye do reaſon after this maner. We do not read that the apoſtles dyd baptiſe the chyldren of the faythfull: Ergo, they oughte not to be baptiſed. If we ſhoulde onelye goo by coniectures and reaſon, it is more lykelye, that the Apoſtles dyd baptyſe the infauntes then otherwyſe in the famylye, and houſholde of Stephana, of Lidia, of the keper of the priſon, & of other, yf at leſte, there were any infantes in thoſe famylyes and houſholdes,Do not thynke good reader that we goo about to defende vnwrytten verytes. which examples ye ſhall neuer be able to cōfute. There be many things done both by Chriſt and by the apoſtles, that neuer were written. Nor we can not make our argument after this maner: This thinge was not done. ergo, it may not lawfully be done. That we ſhuld graunt vntounto you y^e the apoſtles did baptiſe no children, yet hauehave ye not proued therfore, that children ought not to be baptized. Again we may not to thys affyrmatyue. (The apoſtles dyd baptyſe them that were of age & did beleue) inferre or bringe in, this negatiue (Ergo childrē ought not to be baptized) for we may neuer, neither in y^e prophane nor yet in the holy ſcriptures, make oure argument, a facto ad ius, To argument or reaſone a facto ad ius is whē we go about to proue a thynge to be lawfull becauſe y^e it was don afore, or elles to be vnlawfull becauſe it was not don aforebut then it is lawfull to bringe the fact and dede for a law, whē it is proued that the dede was done rightfully.

SIMON.

As I do hear the controuerſye is of the facte, and of the ryghte or lawfulnes.

IOI.

Thou ſaieſt truth if anye thinge be lawfull, as ſoone as thou haſt done it, thou haſt done well though that none of the apoſtles did it afore the. Therfore baptiſme oughte not to be denyed vntounto infantes, becauſe that we do not reade expreſſely, that the apoſtles did baptiſe infantes. Both becauſe y^t it may be, y^t they did baptiſe infants (as we hauehave proued & ſhewed alreadye, and hereafter, if nede be, wil ſhew more largely) & yet it was not writtē, & alſo becauſe y^t no mans factes ought to be preiudicial vntounto y^e law, much leſſe y^e things y^t are left vndone. Therfore, if it were written any where w^t plain & expreſſe words of y^e apoſtles after this maner: The apoſtles dyd not baptiſe infauntes, yet it ſhoulde not folowe that they oughte not too be baptyzed: but we oughte too enquyre and ſearche, whether that they lefte it vndone, becauſe that it was notte lawfull, Chriſt did not baptiſe.Chriſt did not baptiſ & yet we ought to baptiſe. Ihon. iiii. Ergo, after or according to your ſaying, we ought not to baptiſe at al. Who is ſo mad to ſay ſo? For y^e Apoſtles did baptiſe & that lawfully. Ergo, If y^e apoſtles, did baptiſe lawfully, though chriſt him ſilf did neuer baptiſe, we ſhal alſo lawfully baptiſe infants, though y^e apoſtles did not baptyſe. There is no diuerſitie at al, yea, we hauehave gotten y^e better end of y^e ſtaffe, ſyth that we hauehave Chriſt y^e did not baptiſe, & yet we ought to baptiſe, and ye onelye hauehave the apoſtles. Bring ye therfore any lawe y^t forbiddeth to baptiſe children. We do not go about by theſe reaſons & examples, as by ſome ſtrong foundaciō, to proue or ſtrengthē y^e baptiſm of infantes (For we hauehave many other ſtrong arguments & foundations) But we will ſhewe, y^e ye do both raſhely & lyingly ſay, that the apoſtles dyd neuer baptiſe infantes or yong babes. For ye hauehave no teſtimonye of that thynge. And though ye had neuer ſo much, yet it ſhuld not folow therfore, y^t infantes ought not to be baptized: For vponupon a thyng that is done, or left vndone, nothing can beſureli concluded, but onelyonly vponupon that, whyche is ſure by goddes worde to be lawful. Agayne, we did bryng ſo many reaſons & examples to this intente, that we myght proue y^t it is more likely, y^t they dyd baptyſe chyldren than otherwiſe.

SI.

Thou doeſt boſt much of foundations,The chyldrē are as wel of the people of god, by the ſtrength of y^e couenaunt as theyr parē tes. but thou bringeſt forth very lytle. I praie y^e, which be theſe ſtrong foundations.

IO.

I hauehave caſt thys foundation, y^t the children of y^e faithful are as wel w^tin the church, and emonge y^e Children of god, as the parents & that by the force and ſtrength of y^e promys, as wel as they were in y^e olde Teſtament. Beſides y^e, circumciſion (as touching y^e ſacramental meaning) was y^e ſame thynge vntounto them, y^t baptiſme was vntounto vsus. Dyd I not alredie both ſaye & proue theſe things? Why ſayeſt thou then that I hauehave brought yet litle or nothing?

SIMON.

Why doſt thou take all thinges out of the olde Teſtament.

IO.

I know what the matter is, ye caſt away the olde Teſtament, for ye ſe that the baptiſme of chyldren may be proued & defended by it Dyd not both Chriſt and his Apoſtles a alege y^e old Teſtament, whē ſo euer they wold proue and ſtrengthen their ſayings Or tell me now when Chriſt doth byd y^e Iewes to ſerch y^e ſcriptures, doth he not ſend them to the old Teſtament?

SIM,

I do not denye that.

IOI.

Why do ye blame vsus then, if we folowyng the example of Chriſte, do ſtrengthen & confirme our ſayings w^t the ſcriptures of the olde Teſtament?The newe Teſtamēt & the olde are included one w^t in an other The new teſtament is included in the old, and y^e old doth ſhadowe & proue the new. If thou be ſufficyentlye perſwaded in this concluſion, let vsus paſſe furth to y^e other.

SI.

Certain thinges do pleaſe me wel, but that thou doeſt recken & number the children in the familie and houſhold, I do not ſe it proued yet.

IO.

Diddeſt y^u neuer ſe then, y^t men are borne of men? & that parents (I meane fathers and mothers) do nouriſh, kepe, & brynge vp their chyldren? Haſte thou ſo caſte of all humayne reaſon, vnderſtandyng and affectyon? But yet in thys moſte plaine matter, I wyll bringe and alege the ſcriptures. Actes .ii. Chapter. We reade after thys maner: And all they that beleued, were together, or in one place, and had al thynges commen emonge theym. Here I doo aſke the, whether the faythefull hadde theyr chyldren with them, or not? If they hadde them, whye ſhoulde they not be then of theyr famylye and houſhold. If they had them not, whye do we not reade then, that the faythefull tooke thoughte, becauſe they myghte not hauehave theyr children wyth theym? Or was the ſpiryte that gouerned them ſo cruel, that it did teache them to put away their children,

SIMON.

We wyll not ſay, that they had not theim wyth theym, or that they dyd not brynge theym vp, but that they were not in the famylye and houſholde of Chriſte.

IOIADA.

Whome do ye comprehend then, vnderunder the name of famylye or houſholde?

SSMON.

Suche as be of that age alreadye, that they may know what the law is, & what ſynne is. For he that wyll be baptyzed, muſte repente: ſythe that infauntes can not repente, they can not be comprehended vnderunder the name of the famylye, or houſholde.

IOIADA.

Whye doeſt thou ſtyll make vp a rope of ſande, hauehave we not proued alreadye before that, not onelye they that be of age, oughte too be baptyzed: But yeare ſoo ſtyffe necked that ye wyll in noo wyſe beleue, that anye maye be baptyzed, onleſſe he maye repente of hys miſdedes. And by and by ye do conclude that, ergo, children ought not to be baptiſed. But in the meane ſeaſon, ye hauehave not yet ſhewed anye lawe y^e orbiddeth to baptyſe the chyldren. We (as we hauehave declared before alreadye) do knowe,Iſaac. Agar. Iſmael. y^t Iſaac being an infaunt was ſo of the familie & houſhold of Abraham that he did cauſe his father to put awaye y^e bond woman, w^t her childe. For Paul ſaith w^t Moiſes: The ſonne of the bond woman ſhal not be heire, w^t my ſonne Iſaac, he was heyre, then w^tout doubte he was of y^e familie, for they that be not heires, as ſeruantes & fre men are of y^e familie. Exo. xii. We reade after thys maner: If ani ſtranger wil come to dwel emong you, & kepe the paſſeouer of the lorde, let al his male children be circumciſed, & thē he ſhal kepe it well. Why is it ſaid, al his male childrē? Doth this pertein onelyonly to them y^e be of age? It is your part then to proue, y^t they which receiue the ſeale of y^e church of god, according to y^e religion of theyr parents, are not of the familye and houſholde of their parentes. But I wil bryng an oher teſtimonye. In the .xxi. of Acts, Luk writeth after this maner: And after certen daies, we departed frō thens & they al brought vsus on our way, w^t their wiues & children. Were al theſe children of age? Or if they were not of age, were they not of y^e familie & houſhold of theyr parents? What myracle, or what affectiō was it if y^e men did onelyonly bring forth y^e apoſtle on his way, w^t their wiues & yong men? But this was y^e greate affection, y^t the fathers with their wiues, did beare & draw their children w^t them, as in ſuche a buſines it is wont to be. Now, they dyd not draw w^t them, other mens, but their own childrē. Ergo, they were of their familie.

SI.

What though they pertain to theyr familie & houſhold? Doth it folow therfore y^t they wer baptized?

IO.

How ſhuld then Paul ſay, y^t he hath baptized the houſhold of Stephana, which he had not baptized, if there were children in it, whō he had not admitted or receued? Again, in y^e Acts, it is ſaid. He was baptyzed (y^t is to ſay) (the keper of y^e priſon) & al his houſhold.At the begininge of y^e church y^e faythfull wer wont to folow y^e example of Abraham and of his poſteritye. Why wil ye not ſe y^t at y^e beginning, y^e faithfull wer wont to do as Abraham & his poſteritie, which did circumciſe al their ſeruants, & not only their childrē? And in y^e .xii. of Exodus (as it is ſaid alredy before) al y^e male childrē of the familie, are cōmaunded to be circumciſed & yet there no mention of faith, or of the knowlege of god (which thinges ought to be cared for aboue al thinges) is made there.

SI.

Thou ſemeſt too me alwaies to leaue thoſe things, y^e make agaynſt y^e. For in y^e epiſtle to the Corin. Paule nameth ſuch a familye and houſhold, doth manifeſtly declare, y^t not infants & yong babes, but ſuche as hauehave reaſon & vnderſtanding, ought to be vnderſtanded. For he ſaith: ye know y^e houſe of Stephana, y^t they are the firſt frutes of Achaia, & hauehave giuen thē ſelues to the ſeruice of y^e ſaints be ye obedient to thē, and to all y^e worke & labour w^t them. Why do ye not ſpeake of ſuche a familie & houſholde?

IO.

We hauehave ſaid alredy, & that often, y^t thys is a Sinecdochicall phraſe, or maner of ſpeaking: ſuch as is .i. Cor. x.. Al our fathers were vnderunder the cloude, for infantes were alſo vnderunder the cloude: but no expreſſe mē tion is made of them. Al went through y^e ſea, but the infants could not go through Thei went through then, y^t went not thorow, but were born by them y^t went thorow. So there were ſome in the familye of Stephana, y^t beleued firſt of al Achaia, there were alſo ſome of the congregatiō y^t could not yet beleue in dede, for lack of age, nor giuegive thē ſelues to the miniſterye & ſeruice of y^e Saints. Al wer baptized in Moſes: he ſpeketh al things of y^e fathers y^t is to lay, of y^e aunceters & grandfathers whō notwithſtandinge, we do ſo take, y^t thei y^t were then children, are now called fathers by Paul. For y^e people of Iſrael was of thē. Therefore, not onelyonly they y^t were of age, were baptized in Moiſes, but alſo the infants. For if they y^t were then infants, were not baptized in y^e going thorough of y^e red ſea, thē Paul ſaid not wel y^t al were baptized in Moiſes. For they were alſo (as we hauehave ſaid afore) the fathers of them y^t came after.

SIM.

This was a figure, what ſhalt thou then proue by it?

IO.

I am wel content. It was a figure y^t as y^e infants were then of y^e family as wel of the earthly father, as of y^e heauenly, and were ſigned or ſealed w^t theyr ſacramentes, y^t ſo now, they that are the children of the chriſtians, ſyth y^t they are the chyldren of god alſo, ought to vſe the ſacramente of the children of god. Thou canſt finde no ſtarting hole, to eſcape at. For ye do folyſhlye vponupon factes and exaumples, brynge in a negatiue: yea, rather vponupon neyther factes nor examples, that is to ſay, ye do vnwiſely make your argument, after this maner: Thys thing was done, as we maye proue both by teſtimonies & examples: Ergo, that thinge oughte not to be done. For what other thing can ye alege for your ſelfs: but we do not read, that y^e apoſtles did baptiſe infantes: ergo, they ought not to be baptized. We do not ſo: but we might ſtay our ſelues vponupon facts & examples (if ye woulde ſtand to) after this maner. The infantes of y^e Hebrues were al baptized vnderunder the cloud, & in the ſea…, as well as ours. For Paul doth altogether proue there in y^e foreſaid place, y^t they were no leſſe initiated w^t our ſacraments, thē we are our ſelues. Firſt & formeſte, then it foloweth, y^t in Paules time,The fathers had the ſame ſacramēts y^t we hauehave y^e apoſtles were wont to baptiſe infants. Secondly, y^t whoſoeuer denieth y^t he doth deprauate & marre the ſentence of Paul. For what other thing doth he there, but make al things equal? and y^t we are not aboue, or ſuperiours vntounto thē, nor they inferyours vntounto vsus? For he attributeth y^e ſame ſacramentes vntounto thē, y^t we hauehave, & the ſame vntounto vsus, y^t thei had, as Colloſſ. ii. Now al thoſe auncient fathers could not hauehave bene baptized as wel as we, yf we be not al baptized w^t our familie & houſholdes. Them al therefore being baptized and made equall vntounto vsus it is manifeſt and plain, y^t as all their infā tes were baptized in y^e red ſea in Moiſes y^t ſo in the apoſtles time, al y^e children of y^e chriſtians,This figure Senecdoche is when eyther ſome whol thynge, is taken for parte of it, or part of it for the wholl, as ye ſhall herafter hauehave examples enowghe. were baptized in Chriſte. It is then Sinecdochically ſpokē of y^e children of Iſrael: They went al through the ſea, where as, after y^e letter or literally, y^e going thorough, is applyed onelyonly vntounto thē, y^t were in health, & of age to go through their ſelfes. And al thei did eate one ſpiritual meate, where as thei only did eate, y^t were ſpiritual, & yet neuertheleſſe it is ſpoken of al them y^t did eat. In lyke maner, yf paul in this place had added this word (All) & ſo had ſayd: All they of y^e houſe of Stephana hauehave geuen them ſelues to the miniſterie & ſeruyce of y^e ſaintes, yet by y^e force & ſtrength of this figur Sinecdoche we ſhuld vnderſtand, y^t there were infantes in y^e familie and houſhold, and y^t they, which had beleued alredie, had geuen thē ſelues vntounto y^e Lord. For this is y^e nature of this figure Synecdoche, y^t when there is ſome wholl body, y^t hath many partes, which in ſome thinge are lyke, & in ſome thinge vnlyke, yf any thing is ſpokē of y^e wholl body, y^e ſame may be vnderſtanded of a ſingular part of it: Again, yf any thinge is ſpoken of any ſingular part, y^e ſame may lyke wyſe be vnderſtand of y^e wholl body. Learne ye this y^t I ſay, by familyar examples. All wholl Iurye went forthe vntounto hym: Here ye ſe, that al Iury is put only for them, y^t went forth vntounto hym, & y^t ther be to maner of Synecdoche, y^e one wherby y^t which conteyneth any thyng, is taken for y^t, which is conteyned, as the contrey of Iurye, for al y^e inhabitours: & y^e other, wherby, it is ſayd y^t al the inhabitours went forth, wher as parte only did go forth vntounto him. Contrary wyſe in Eſaye.The daughters of Syon. iii. Becauſe y^t the daughteres of Syon, are waxen proude, there the daughters are parte of Syon. and yet they are taken for all the wholl people, and eſpecyally for the prynces and rulers, whiche vngodly did riſe agaynſt the Lorde. Exo xvi. All the congregatyon dyd murmure againſt Moſes. But how did y^e children murmure, whyche knewe not what was done?The anabaptyſtes are ignoraunt in thoſe thinges y^t ſerue to expoūd the letter which thei ſtycke to alwayes. If they did not murmur & grudge al y^e congregation did not murmur: For y^e infants were of y^e congregation. Nowe ſe, I praye y^t, what pratinge ſmatteres ye are, y^e thinge, y^t ye truſt moſt vponupon, ye are moſt ſhamefully ignorant in. For ye ſtick to y^e letter, but ye are ignoraūt in y^e thing, y^t doth moſt chyefely ſerue to vnderſtand & expound y^e letter. Tel I beſech y^t, Simō to whō is it ſayd: Do not take y^e name of thy Lorde god in vayne. Thou ſhalte not ſteale, & ſuche like?

SI.

To them y^t were of age, which are y^e people, & congregatiō of god.

IO.

Ergo, becauſe y^t theſe thinges can not be ſaid vntounto y^e children, ſhall thei not be of y^e church & people of God? God forbid: For Infantes were y^e members of y^e people of god, & fathers of nacions & peoples. Gene. xxv. It is plaine and manifeſte then, y^t what ſoeuer is ſpoken, to any wholl body or generalitie:Marke ye this. And in y^e ſame generaletye there is ſome part, to whom y^t which is ſpoken, is not applied, yet notwithſtanding it is of y^e body, yea, though certain thing do pertain nothing vntounto it. Agayne, if any thyng be ſpoken to part of y^e body, or of y^e generality, whiche not withſtandyng, doth not pertayne vntounto y^e parte: It perteyneth ſo to y^e wholl body, y^t it toucheth and admoniſheth only thoſe partes, y^t maye be ſubiect vntounto that, which is ſpoken. Thou art myne enheritaunce, O Iſrael. To whō is this ſpokē? Is not this ſpoken to y^e wholl poſteritye of Iſrael? But childrē do not vnderſtand it. It foloweth not therfor, y^t thei are not of y^e enheritaunce or of y^e peculier people. But though it is a parte, y^t vnderſtandeth not what is ſaid, yet neuertheles it perteineth to y^e whol body. In like maner, whē Chriſt ſaieth: Go ye, teach al nations baptizing them &c. The apoſtles did teche as many as were able to receaue y^e doctrine, & baptized as many, as were able to receaue baptiſm,

SI.

Therfore I do thinke y^e infantes ought not to be baptized, ſyth y^t Chriſt ſaith ſo expreſſely: Go thorough out al y^e wholl world, & prech the goſpel, whoſoeuer ſhall beleue & is baptized &c. Going forth, teache ye all nations.

IO.

This is the only refuge y^t ye alwaies flee to, although Chriſt, had inſtituted baptiſm there, where as Ihon & the apoſtles did both prech & baptiſe long afore, when Chriſt was yet a lyue:The cōtention was emonge y^e apoſtles touchyng y^e preching of the goſpel to the gentles. There was a contention emong y^e apoſtles, whether y^e goſpell ought to be preached to y^e gentyles, or not. Which contention did riſe partlie of a falſe concluſion & coniecture, & parttely of a likelyhode. The falſe concluſion or coniectur was this: Chriſt is promiſed vntounto vsus, ergo he doth not perteyne or belonge to y^t gentyles. Who is ſo without vnderſtanding, which doth not perceaue, y^t this can folow by no mean? The meſſias is promiſſed vntounto vsus y^t be Iues, ergo, he doth nothing perteine to gentyles. For it maie be y^t he is alſo promiſſed to y^e gentyles, which thing y^e ſcriptures do teſtefy in many places. In y^e ſame ſelf maner do ye gather your argumēt, but falſely: The wrytinges of y^e apoſtles do teſtifye & witneſſe, y^t they did baptiſe them, y^t had both harde & beleued y^e word: ergo, thei did not baptiſe infantes. For theſe .ii. ſentences mai both be true. The apoſtles did baptiſe them y^t beleued: &: y^e Apoſtles did baptiſe infants. Ye do make an indefinite propoſityon, an excluſyue or negatiue propoſition, y^t is to ſaye, ye do make of a ſentence y^t affyrmeth, a ſentence y^e vtterly deneith. For both theſe are negatyues: No man ought to be baptized, onleſſe he doth beleue, &: Infants ought not to be baptized. Ye were not hetherto able to proue anye of them by y^e ſcriptures. The lykelyhode wherby y^e apoſtles were moued to think, y^t the goſpel ought not to be preached, vntounto y^e gentyles, was thys: In their fyrſt miſſion & ſending, they were forbiden to go into y^t waye of the gentyles: whyche word myght had cauſed them to contend & ſtryue, and that ſtoutely, y^t Chriſte was mynded to kepe him ſelfe for y^e hebrewes onelyonly. Yf ye had now any ſuch word, O lord god, ſo ye would triumphe agaynſte vsus. Marke thou therfore. Theſe .ii. commundementes (Go ye & teche all nations baptizing them: &: Go through out all y^e wholl world, & preach y^e goſpel) were a diſpenſation & an aboliſſhyng of this interdicte or prohibition (ye ſhal not go into y^e waie of the gentilles.) For they had alredy before both taught and baptyzed, which thyng eyther ye do not marke, or elles ye do diſſemble it craftely. He doth therfore open y^e wholl prouynce of al the wholl world vntounto thē y^e were afore included & in a maner ſhut vp w^t in y^e borders of Iury. Theſe places thē are ſet againſt y^e fyrſt,Antitheſis is a figure where by one contrary is ſet agaynſte the other. as twoe Anttytheſes.

SI.

The place y^e thou haſt aleged before out of the ſecōd of y^e Act, doth make greatli againſt y^e. For it ſhuld folow, y^e infantes had both ſolde & diſtributed theyr goods, & many other thinges myght be gathered thervpon.

IOIADA.

Whē ye gather your argument after this maner: Yf y^e infantes be numbered emong y^e faythfull: It foloweth, y^e they dyd ſel and diſtribute theyr goodes, y^e they dyd praye & breake bread, for they y^e beleued, dyd ſo. Who doth not ſee, y^t ye expounde all thynges after the letter, & yet ye doo not weyghe & ponder it? The infantes are of the familie & houſhold of their parentes, which thynge we hauehave proued ſufficienly before, whom ſith y^t ye had rather to comprehend vnderunder y^e name of houlſhold ſtuffe, then of the faithfull, ye do not only in this thing, moſt vngodly, but alſo moſt cruelly. It is not requieted in this figur Synecdoche, y^t whatſoeuer is ſpokē or ſaid of ſome whol body y^e ſame be verified of al partes. For thē it is no Sinecdoche: When y^t which is ſpoken, may be veryfied of al partes, it is no trope nor figur. But thē it is a true ſinecdoche, whē eyther ſome part is takē for y^e wholl body, or elles y^e wholl bodi for part therof. As in Exo. xxiii. where it is writtē: That al y^e male kynde ſhal apeare before the Lord thriſe in y^e year, here y^u ſeeſt thys word (All) Tell me now, were all y^e chyldren in y^e cradelles caried frō al Paleſtina thriſe in y^e yeare to Hieruſalem? If y^u ſay eſt y^t it was ſo, ergo y^e infantes (according to thy reaſon) did .vii. dayes eate unleauened bread, did ſowe fyeldes, did offer y^e fyrſt frutes. Which thyng ſyth y^t they did not: it foloweth y^t the male chyldren are not comprehended. If they were nott brought, then this is not true that all the male kind did thriſe in y^e year apear befor y^e lorde: & though at y^e firſt ſight, it ſemeth to hauehave a ſhew, y^t al y^e male children are cō maunded to come to y^e thre feaſtes, yet for al y^t, thei are onelyonly bound by y^e lawe, that are of y^e age, y^t may heare & vnderſtand y^e doctryne, or offer y^e fyrſt frutes, or beare about branches of trees accordyng to the variety of y^e feaſtes & faſhion of y^e rightes As it is writtē Deut .xxxi. of y^e cōmyng to y^e lecture or reading of y^e lawe: it apeareth y^e thoſe childrē did come, which did alredi begyn to vnderſtand, what was red.

SI.

What is this figure Sinecdoche, or from whens doth it come?

IO.

Synecdoche, is compounded of Syn,Wherof ſynecdoch commeth. ek, and Dechome. As yf a man ſhould ſaye: Whē I do take an wholl bodye, I do vnderſtande ſome thinge a parte, or by it ſelfe of thoſe thinges, y^e are together comprehended in y^e ſame body. It maye in laten be called comprehenſio, howbeit it agreeth not all together w^t y^e Greke word. But what do we ſtryue for y^e word? Tell me now, hauehave theſe things y^t we hauehave reaſoned vponupon he therto, ſatiſfied the?

SI.

I hauehave nothing to ſay againſt ſo manifeſt ſcriptures. Nor it is not decent y^t a man ſhuld repugne agaynſt y^e trueth. I would that thou ſhuldeſt take mine obiections although, thei did procede from an ignoraunce perſon, which yet coueteth to be taught and inſtructed.

¶Imprynted at Worceter by Ihon Oſwen.

ANNO. DO. 1551.

☞ Cum priuilegio ad imprimendum ſolum.

End of the text · Henrich Bullinger, Defense of the Baptism of Children (1551)