A Wholesome Antidote Against Anabaptists, Dialogue 1
How that the worlde, is eaſiſy deceiued, and brought to diuiſion, by faſs doctrine.
Ioiada.
THat truely, whiche the wiſe men of the heathen, dyd complayne vponupon, ſaiyng that al mortal men, are exceadyng ſtudiouſe, of new thynges, appeareth now to bee true: in ſo muche that thei doe ſuffer them ſelues wilfully to be begyled, and vtterly ſpoyled, by ſhameful and abhominable impoſtours & deceauers (ſo that thei be commended, with hypocriſy, and vaine blandiloquence or flatteryng) although this thing (if any man, ſhulde eſteme it after humaine reaſon) is by it ſelfe, bothe myſerable, and full of horrour, yet notwithſtondyng, it owght moſt of all, to be lamented, among vsus Chriſten men, whiche hauehave ſure and definite, ſhorte and moſte approued groundes or foundacions, bothe of our faithe and of our lyuyng, wher vponupon, we may ſurely leine, and truſte, not ſuffryng our ſelues, thus to be caried about and toſſed to and fro, by ſuche erroneouſe perſons. But ſurely, our ſynnes, & infidelitie do deſerue it, whiche dooe heare daiely the worde of god, but do not receiue it, with a true herte, ſekyng, I can not tell, what other thyng beſide the glorie of god, and true innocencie of lyfe Therfore, are we deſeruyngly gyuen, in to a reprobate mynde, and in to all kynde of filthineſſe and abhominacion.
Symon
Lo I ſet the man, whome I hauehave loked for, agreate whyll. But is it he, in dede whome I ſee comynge hetherward, to mete me, or not? I wyll ſpeke vntounto hym.
God ſpede, moſte wellbeloued brother. Arte thou not
Ioiada.
with whome, I dyd familyarly lyue, in the citie of Lyons. Tell me I praie the, how doeſt thou? Are all thinges ſafe, or well? Or what thinge, maketh the, to go, ſo penſyf, and troublyd in thy mynde?
Ioiada.
As touchinge my ſelfe, all thynges …ewell, thankes be vntounto god, But it greueth me, that ſuch greate diſſencions, and troubles are among Chriſten men. And although ſuche debates and ſtrifes, be neither neceſſary, nor profitable, for any maner of thyng, yet not withſtondyng we dooe ſee, the poore ſymple people, to be, on eueryevery ſyde intangled with the errours of the Anababtiſtes I am bothe aſſhamed and ſorie alſo, that ſuche blyndneſſe doeth reigne, that men, can not ſee, what miſfortune doeth folowe, wherſoeuer theſe anababtiſtes, doe fixe or ſet their feate. Surely, it did behoue, that thei ſhuld hauehave perceaued, and eſpied ſuch thynges, & after that thei were ones knowen, to ſhunne them, & not toſwarue, as muche, as the bredthe of a naile from the ſure articles of the faithe.
Symon.
Tell me I praie y•, if thou art a good felow. What harmes, doe theſe men, go about to doe? for I dare ſaie and affirme, that I hauehave not hetherto harde, that thei hauehave gone about any thyng, that doeth abhorre, from truthe and honeſty. In the meane ſeaſon I know, that many thynges are imputed vntounto them, falſely, moreouer that thei be accuſed, and blamed in many thynges, whiche thei dooe not knowlage them ſelues, to be gylty in.
Ioia.
I dooe heare alſo, that thine eies are blynded by ſuche men. Which if I doe, bothe heale and opē vntounto the, thou wilt geue me thankes, and remembre this benefyt.
Symon.
I can not vtterly blame this ſorte of men, for yet I hauehave not harde, that thei hauehave done any abhomynable thyng.
Ioiada.
But I wil make it, manyfeſte vntounto the. This ſecte dyd vtterly ſubuerte the whole citie of Waltzhountum, and did cauſe many of the cytezens, whyche were bothe good and ryghtfull men, to bee exyled, and to be put from their poſſeſſions. Wherfore the goſpell (whiche dyd floryſſhe godly there) was alſo outrageouſly extynguyſſhed. The whiche thyng dyd almoſte chaunce, in a citee, called Vormantia. There were Anababtyſtes in Auguſte, in Baſile, and in Morania, whiche did affyrmt, that Chriſte was but a prophete, ſaiyng that the vngodly perſones, whiche for theyr vngodlyneſſe were damned, and the dyuelles alſo, ſhulde enioye, the heauenly bleſſe. In a towne called Sanctogallus, one of them, did ſmite of his owne brothers heade, the father of heauen (as he ſayed) byddynge hym thus to dooe. What abhominacion they dooe commytte, vnderunder the pretence, and colour of ſpirituall matrimony, the townes and cittees, that did oftentymes, greuouſly punyſſhe them, for ſuche wicked and abhominable factes, dooe manifeſtly ſhewe and teſtifie. And this no man can denay, but that many of them, do leaue and forſake their owne wyues and children, yea all offyce and honeſty beyng caſted a ſyde, dooe lyue, feade, and fatte them ſelues, with other mens labours, ſnortyng bothe daie and nyght, moſte ſlougardely. And where as, they bee wholely gyuen to ſo foule and deteſtable ſenſualytee, they dooe interprete it, to be, the commaundemente, of the heauenly father, perſuadyng to women and honeſte matrones, that it is impoſſible for them, to be partakerres of the kyngdome of heauē excepte thei doe abhominabli proſtitute, and make common theire owne bodies to all men, ſithe that it is, wrytten, that we muſte forſake and renounce, to all thynges, y• we louelove beſt, and that we ought to ſuffer all kyndes of infamie, or reproche, for Chriſtſake, beſyde that, that ye publicans, and harlottes ſhallbe preferred, to the ryghtwes, in the kyngdome of heauen, There is no ende, nor meaſure of ther infydelitie, and falſhod, of their liyng and ſedition, with the which vices theſe diſobedient perſons are on eueryevery ſyde infectyd. Are theſe, my Symon, and other muche greuoſer, which I dooe paſſe ouer here, for the nones, to be callyd vertues? Dooe they ſeme vntounto ye yet, to hauehave done no vnhoneſt acte? Or canſte thou denaye, but that thei hauehave done theſe thīges
Symon.
Truly many thinges are aſcribed vntounto them falſely and the fame or voyce of the people, dooeth alwayes adde ſomwhat vntounto it.
Ioiada.
That, which is ſayed hetherto, maye be prouyd by ſealed letters, and with ſure and infalible witneſſes. I hauehave here wittingly paſſed ouer theyr abhominable crimes, and hauehave ſayed, a greate deale leſſe, than they hauehave done them ſelues. Therfore, it greauith me the more, that men are ſo blynde, that they can not perceiue, nor ponder in their hertes ſuche thynges. But rather, that a greate ſorte of men, dooe embrace thoſe erroneous felowes and rennegates, eauen as, yf they ware fallen, or ſent doone from heauen and were ſaintes amonge mortall men, whiche ſhould preache, none other, but godly & heauēly thinges. Where as thei doe paſſe, in filthy liuing the Nicolantes, and Valentynians.
Symon.
Theſe thīges hauehave ben hetherto vnknowen vntounto me. And I ſuppoſe, that they be not all pollutyd, with thoſe filthye abhominationes. But what ſkyllithe, to them, yt are good, what fewe among thē Dooe committe? In the hollie nūbre of the apoſtelles, Iudas was a traytour, and yet neuertheleſſe was callyd an apoſtyll. Which (I ſuppoſe) coulde not hurte the other. Moreouer thei teache ſo excellente and godly thynges, of god, of ſhunninge ſynnes, that I can not perceaue yt they be ſo wycked, and lewde. Whan they are takē, they praiſe and laude god, they gyue thankes, whan they are put to death they doe conſtantly endure and ſuſteyne, dyeng gladly and wyllynglie. This thou canſte not denaye my Ioiada, wherfore I wolde gladly, that thou haddeſt hard them as I hauehave.
Ioiada.
I coulde paraduenture, bringe here fewe thynges, agaynſte the excepte I knowe well alredye, all this ſorte, of men and that a greate whyle a go. But I am not ingnoraunte, howe muche hipocriſye can preuayle, by the meanes of fraude and deceate. And as touchynge thyne anſwere, thou ſayeſt very well in that, that is to wyt, that the wycked facte of fewe, ſhall not harme the innocent. But thou haſte not yet proued, that the cauſe of the Anababtiſtes is iuſt and good, Nor thou canſte not ſhewe one amonge them whiche is not commaculate, and infected with ſome of theſe ſaid vices I meane lyenge, falſhode, periurie, diſobedience, ſedicion, idelnes, forſakynge of their wiues and chyldren, turpitude. And though all theſe vices doe not ſticke or cleaue to them al at ones, yet not withſtandyng are they eueryevery chone pollutid with ſome of them. That in the mean ſeaſon I ſhould ſpeake nothyng of their hereſie, and ſectes, of their pertinacie, of their falſe & erroneous doctrīe. And becauſe thou ſaieſt, that thei ſpeake muche of god. I wolde faine know of the, whether thei, yt doe preache the goſpell, doe not ſpeake of god alſo?
Symon.
This thei doe greatly denaie.
Ioia.
In this thyng truely thei do wrong and iniury to the preachers of the goſpell, teſtifiyng the contrary to the vniuerſall chyrche, that is to ſaie, denaiyng, that by the goſpel truely and ſyncerely preached the people is taught to put their truſte, in the onelyonly and true lyuyng god through Ieſu Chriſte. In ſo muche that among the enemies of the goſpell, it is ſaied in maner of a prouerbe, that prieſtes doe preache nothyng elles, but of god and faith onelyonly, beyng offēded, with this preachyng: Man is iuſtified by faith alone.
Sym.
Truely the mattier is ſo.
Ioiada.
Now therefore if the Catababtiſtes, dooe teache of god and faithe otherwiſe, ſurely thei dooe blaſpheame god and ſeduce the people. And if thei doe teache, all one thing with vsus (for ſo it muſt be, if thei doe teache ryght, and accordynge to the ſcriptures) why doe thei therfore ſeparate them ſelues from vsus. Or is not that ſufficient, that we teache, ſythe that we dooe teache bothe one thyng?
Sym.
There is one thyng, that ye wyll not teache, that is to ſaie, that thei, whiche are godly, ſhulde not ſinne at al. And again ſinners are not ſhunned of you Nor ye will not ſeparate your ſelues, from this polluted, and wicked worlde.
Ioiad.
We were taught by our ſauiour Ieſu Chriſt, that thei, that are whole, hauehave no neade of the phiſycian, but thei that art ſycke. For the Phariſees dyd obiecte the ſame to y• diſciples of Chriſt, ſaiyng: Why doeth your maiſter eate with ſinners? furthermore ſeyng that no man liueth without ſynne, not as muche, as the infaunt of one daie: we owght not to teache, that men ſhoulde not ſynne at all, but rather to repent daiely and hourely, and to beware of ſinne, as of a ſnake, and that the godly owght not to diſpaire, if thei fall, at any tyme As for the ſinnes, that are committed openly, thei are ſo exagitate or rebuked by the miniſters of the churche. Suche ſeueritee and extreme grauitee is vſed in rebukyng, that theyr enemies are wont to ſaie alredy, that thei can none other thyng, but chide and braule. Agayne, touchynge abſtencion or ſeparatyng, we doe not ſee that euer Chriſte did the ſame, as long as there was any hope. We doe not ſeparate our ſelues, leaſt we become like vntounto the Phariſees, Luc. xviii.
Symon.
But ſinnes are not forſaken.
Ioiada.
And that, owght not to bee imputed to the doctrine, but to them, whiche doe not folow the teachyng. The teachyng and doctrine (as thou graunteſt thy ſelfe) is holſome, and in it, nothing is wantyng or lackynge. What other thyng doe then, the Catababtiſtes, in teachyng the contrary, but ſhew theyr pertinacy and a certaine ſyngularitee or louelove of them ſelues, wherby it cometh to paſſe, that nothyng but that, which thei doe them ſelues pleaſeth them? As this, is not done, without affection, ſo it can not be without vice.
Symon.
And yet not withſtandyng, thou doeſt not beleue, how deuout they are to god, how full of conſtancy and grauitee, how feruently thei louelove god.
Ioiada.
I can not beleue, yt this deuocion of theirs is without blame, or is ſyncere and pure. For thei diuide the churche, where no neade is. For thou canſt not denaie, but that god, is taught by vsus truely and faithfully. And that ſynnes are reprehended and rebuked, with great libertee and conſtauncie. What doe thei therfore, that we doe not, ſaue onelyonly, that thei doe ſeparate them ſelues, frō other, and are full of obſtinacie? Doeth not Sathā alſo tranſforme him ſelfe, into an āgell of light? What merueill is therfore, if theſe impoſtours or deceitfull perſons, can faine them ſelues, to be ſheapeherdes? Thei that doe fiſſhe, dooe not caſte a bare hooke before the fyſſhes, but doe hyde & couer it, with ſome pleaſaunt and ſwete baite. And Cato did ſaie veary well. Whiles the byrder, the byrdes begyleth, The flute alwai ſwetely pipeth. Nor he is not ſo fooliſſhe, as for to ſet or laye his net before the birdes eies. Did not the biſſhop of Rome ſeduce vsus ſo many yeres, with his peincted hipocriſie, and with his godly and dyuyne diſſimulacion and fraude? But theſe thynges are gon out of remembraunce, ſythe that we doe, ſo lyghtly addicte or bynde our ſelues, to theſe newe impoſtours, and hipocrites. By what craftes, did monkes get ſo gret richeſſes, was it not, by flatteryng, and hypocriſie? Was it not, by a feined ſanctimony, and holyneſſe of lyfe? As for that, yt thei doe reioyce, when thei are taken, & dye gladly, with prayſyng and laudyng god, thou doeſt ſo exaggerate and extoll it, as though theſe thynges (if thei be done) ſhulde ſhewe and proue that their doctrine is true, and that their deedes are good. If thou canſt proue that, it ſhall folowe, that theft and robbery, be iuſte and good deedes alſo. For whan thei be puniſſhed at the galows, or vponupon the whele, thei doe oftentymes ſuffer it paciently, & moreouer, doe praiſe & laude god. Who is ſo folyſſhe, to thynke, that he maye thus make his argument? This man is tormented and puniſſhed, & yet not withſtandynge, dooeth gyue thankes: ergo, he is a iuſt man & holy. If any man, ſhulde contende, that this doeth folow, he muſte nedes to graunt alſo, that the religion of the Iues, is moſte holy, yea, that their religion onelyonly is true. For no man▪ doeth pacientlyer endure, to the very death, for his religion, thā the Iues doe. How many heretikes were there (thinkeſt thou) which did moſte conſtantly ſuffer death, teſtifiyng, wt their oūe blood, that thei had taught the truthe. Do not oftētime robers & traitours, which ſuffer death, accordīg to their deſeruyng, ſtifly defend their innocencie, to the laſt breath? Is therfore y• cauſe of ſuch an obſtacle and deſperat man, iuſtified before god? Who doeth not perceiue, y• the farther he is from repentance and confeſſion, ſo muche the worſe he is
Symon.
It is ſo as, thou ſaieſt, nor I can not ſaie, againſte it. But this is moſte to be lamented, that we, whiche are ſimple perſons, are ſo toſſed and caried to and fro, in ſo muche, that we can not tel, what is beſte to bee doone. The Anababtiſtes dooe ſaie, that ye doe erre, and ye ſaie agayne, that thei be out of the right waie. After my iudgemēt, what miſery ſo euer, or trouble there is, it dooeth come of the prieſtes. And I dooe thinke, yt ther were neuer ſo troubleſome tymes. It were peraduenture better, that I folowyng myne owne mynde, ſhuld beleue, none of you al, doyng al thinges after myne owne appetite, and witte.
Ioiada.
Thou ſhalt not do ſo, my Symō, but now, learne by thine own ſelf what good, doeth come of the anababtiſtes & what thou haſt ſucked of thē, for thou doeſt ſhew openly, ye fruite, that is to ſaie, deſperacion, and to truſt in thi ſelf, haſt thou forgottē, what god hath commaunded, in Deuteronomy? ſaiyng: ye ſhal not do eueryevery man, y•, which ſemeth good vntounto you, but that, which y• lord hath commanded. So this phā taſticall & new fangled men, do intangle wt them ſelues, other men, & caſt thē hedlyng, into all errours. But ye your ſelues, are in the faulte, being the autors of your one harmes, for ſuch deceitful perſons, do pleaſe you. By & by, as ſone as any cōtencious body, or ſome new & vnaccuſtomed thing, doeth ſet forthe his head, ye come rēning by troppes, & neither warninges nor praiers nor rebukes can auaile among you. And whan ye be come into y• botomles pit of miſerie or myſchef ye put ye faulte in the ouerſeers, which do geue you warnyng before, wt great fidelitie & trothe. Whoſe admonitions if ye would here, or rather gyue eares to ye word of god preched vntounto you, & ſetforth by thē, ye might liue peſibly, ſeīg therfore, yt ye caſt yourſelues through your onefoli, īto ſuch perplexites ye hauehave no cauſ to īpute it, to y• faithfull ſheapherdes, whiche warned you befor to beware of ſuch thīgs exhorting you to peace, charite, & cō cord, but to your oūe ſelues.
Sy.
I hauehave ſaid y•, which I do thīke yet, y• ther was neuer a more troblous world, who ſo euer ar ye autors of it.
Io.
wilt thou know what ye mattier is? this thīg do ſtirre vp ſedition and timulltie, y• ye do make eueryevery raſcal knaue miniſter of gods word, and that without any deſcretion. Beſyde this, thou ſheweſt thiſelfe vtterlie ignoraunte in hiſtories, and vnexperte of wordely thynges, which doeſt ſcarſely knowe, the actes of one age, nor doeiſte not cōſider farther, than is at hand. If thou haddeſt redde the hollie goſpelles & actes of the Apoſtelles, thou ſhouldeſt hauehave founde greuouſer diſſentions, whiche did riſe of the ſermons of Chriſt and of his apoſtelles. Finallie that hiſtories are full of tumultes, which dyd ſpryng in tymes paſte, of the falſe oppinions of Marcion, Valentinus, Arrius, Neſtorius Enriches, Donatus, Pelagius, and other heretikes. Ther were great tumultes and rebellions, not onelyonly of cities & townes, but alſo of whole realmes, which wer ſo great, yt ours owght not to be compared with them. Did not bothe chriſt himſelfe, and his apoſtels gyue warnyng before, that ſectes, ſhould aryſe? Not becauſe, that for thē we ſhould be amaſyd, or deſpair vtterly, but becauſe, that wee ſhould ye more dilygently watch againſt ſuche peſtiferous ſectes not onelyonly to auoyde and ſhunne them, but to reſiſte alſo. Paule doeth apertely ſaye, Corin. ii. that ſectes muſte be, that thei which ar faithful, maye be knowen. For euen as a ſieue doeth not liſe the corne, but clenſithe from chaffe and darnell, ſo the wheate of faithfull men, doeth not periſhe by falſe doctrines, but is tryed, the duſte and chaffe beeng ſifted out. Ihon ſaieth: Thei wēt out from vsus but they ware not of vsus, for if thei had bē of vsus they trulie ſhoulde had remayned wt vsus. Therfor we hauehave nede of cōſtaunce & fortitude or ſtrenght, nor we ought not in…ō tinētly to forſake the ſterne but reſiſt corageouſly y• waues and ſtormes. This cōſtācy & perſeueraunce in the tēpeſte is a token that wee are not light, but hauehave beleued ſtedfaſtly and wel. Tentations are ſignes or proues of faith and of ye truth, and do manifeſt & ſhew, how farre we hauehave beleued to ye true veritee.
Sy.
Thy meaning is good Seinge therfore yt thou ſheweſt thyſelfe ſo frendly toward me, & that we hauehave begōe ones to commone of theſe thīges: I wil opē my whol mid vntounto ye cōfering many and ſondry thinges wt the, touching Catababtiſme or oppiniōs of y• Anababtiſtes, if ſo be y• thou haſt time & leaſyr to heare me.
Ioiada.
I wil gladly obey the and folow thy mynd. If thou haſt any thīg bring it forth, ī gods name. Sy I do meruell, if ther is no good thing, in the doctrine and oppinions of the Anababtiſtes. For vntounto me, it ſemeth much otherwyſe, yt is to ſay, y• ther be many thinges ſtrongly grounded vpō the ſcriptures.
Ioiada.
This is all the good, that is in it, that it cauſ…the a greate meanye to reade the ſcriptures, whiche elles wolde but lyttell, ſtudye in them. As for that whiche they teache well, they hauehave it commune wt vsus, all the reſydue wyll I proue to bee falſe and foolyſhe. I am mynded to wryte hereafter agaynſt thē wherfore I had noted agaynſte their doctrine, certayne concluſions, which the greateſt parte of them doe holde For agaynſt ſuche vngodly and blaſphemous rēnegates, which doe reiecte the ſcriptures, which doe affyrme that the deuelles and vngodly or vnfaithfull perſones ſhall obtaine at length, the euerlaſtynge life, doe denaye the god head of Chriſte, and commite opēly with out all ſhame ſuche enorme and abhomynablee actes, what neade is it to wrytte? But now wyl ſet in order my concluſions,