A Wholesome Antidote Against Anabaptists, Dialogue 6
The. VI. Treatyſe or Dialogue.
Of the Vnitie of the Churche, againſt the Sectes of the Anabaptiſtes.
Ioiada.
IChynke, that thou wylt ſay nothyng agaynſt the thyrd concluſion: For, what canne be ſayde more truly, then that Chriſt, and his Apoſtles, dyd alwayes congregate, or aſſemble the Churche, and that thei dyd neuer tumultuate or moue ſediſion, for outwarde and temporall thynges. Or is there any man, that can ſay the contrarye?
Symon.
I wyl ſhew hym vntounto the by & by, that is to ſay, Chriſt, whiche dothe ſaye: I am come, not to bring peace, but the ſwoorde.
Ioiada.
Thou dooeſt writhe and wreſt the wordes of Chriſt: For he ſpeaketh nor theſe wordes of his Churche, that they ſhoulde diſagree within themſelues, as the Anabaptiſtes do moue tumulte, in thoſe churches, where Chriſt and the Goſpell is preached ſincerely, but doth expres the nature of the infidels, whiche doo perſecute the faythfull. For, wherſoeuer Chriſt is preched, they that are godly, do receyue and embrace him gladly: and they that are vngodly, doo bothe let and perſecute Chriſt and his Diſciples. Now Chriſt doth cal this diſcenciō a ſword: which ſworde is not among the godly in the Churche: but the infidels do vſe it agaynſt them that ar godly. Dothe not Eſaie ſay, that there is no peace to the vngodly. The cogniſaunce or badge of them that ar godly, is Charitie, Peace, and Concord. Wherfore, the Lorde, dothe call them, that be peaſable, or louelove peace, bleſſed, and chyldren of God. Mat. v.
Symou.
I do eaſely graunte, that peace and vnitie ought to be, in the Church. But that Chriſt, and hys Apoſtles dyd neuer moue ſediciō for temporall thynges, thou doeſt affirme it ſcantly.
Ioiada.
yea, and truly alſo, or elles ſhewe thou the contrary.
Symon.
In the .xv. chap. of the Actes, we do reade that Paule and Barnabas, had no ſmall diſcencion, and reaſonyng agaynſt them, which dyd teache Circumſicion. Who wyll deny, circumciſion to be an outwarde thyng?
Ioiada.
I vnderſtande & call outward thynges, that dooe helpe nothyng to our ſaluacion, perteining to the body, more, then to the ſoule, and which being neceſſari to the body, do, in proceſſe of tyme, waxe olde, waſte, and conſume away, ſuche as be, condicion, rycheſſe, and groſſe elementes of thys worlde. But circumciſion, was not taught by the falſe prophetes, as an outwarde thyng, but as a neceſſary & needeful thyng to ſaluacion: which thei dyd very vrgently and inſtantly perſuade, that it ſhoulde bee obſerued & kepte, yea, and all the whole law beſyde. Hereof, dyd ryſe the diſputacion, whche is written of, in the xv. chap. of the Actes Els Paule dyd circumciſe, Timothie, for peace and tranquilitie ſake, and becauſe that he woulde not offende certayne weake bretherne, in the Churche: but after that, ſome men dyd vrgently bring in, circumciſon, as neceſſary, Paule dyd greatly repugne, & woulde not ſuffer Titus to be circumcized .xvi. of the Actes .ii. Galat. This ſediciō therfore that thou aledgeſt here, hathe a greatter cauſe, then an outwarde thyng.
Sy.
Howe dareſt thou call richeſſe outwarde thinges, which do exclude a mā from the kyngdome of Heauen? For Chriſt ſayeth that it is eaſyer for a camell, to go thoroughe the eye of a nydle. then for a ryche man to entre into the kyngdome of Heuen.
Io.
We doo know well inoughe the falſe ſighynges and teares of the Crocodyle, which, theſe light and inconſtant Anababtiſtes, do poure doune daily, diſpiſynge richeſſe, none other wyſe, then the Foxe, dyd in tymes paſt diſpyſe, the ſweete grapes, that ſhe could not come by. Richeſſe, are by them ſelues nether good, nor euyll, but the vſe, dothe make theim either good, or euyll. If thyne eye be ſimple, and lyghtſome, all the body ſhal be lyghtſome: but if thyne eye be wycked and euyll, all thy body ſhall be darkeneſſe. Mat. vi. Therfore, if a riche mā be faithfull and godly, the richeſſe that he hathe, be good, and that, by reaſon of the good vſe. If the maſter or owner of the richeſſe, is vnfaythful or an infidell, his richeſſe are nought. Luke .xvi. Such, do chriſt ſpeake of, when he bringeth in, the ſimilitude of the camell. and of the eye of the nedle. There wer innumerable, bothe in the olde & newe Teſtament, whiche, in great richeſſe were called no ſmall frendes of God: as Noe, Abraham, Lot, Iſaac, Iacob. Iob, Ioſeph, &c. Whiche in the myddeſt of their rycheſſe, dyd cleaue vntounto God, with a ſincere harte, and good fayth. Loke what opiniō Paul hathe of this thyng, and what he writeth of it .i. Timoth. vi. Therfore, I care not what theſe hipocrites doo bable and prate, ſith that the richemen may doo good to the poore, in Chriſtes Churche, whiche occaſion they that hauehave no richeſſe doo lacke. To what purpoſe or intent doo then theſe mad braines, trouble all the worlde for trifelyng and vnneceſſary thyngꝭ? I do know ſum, which, if thei had as much as they do lacke, thorough their owne negligence and ſlugherdneſſe, they woulde fynde by and by a way, to iuſtify their vniuſt and euyll gotten goodes.
Sy.
I doo let that paſſe, I pray the, to proue the ſeconde concluſion. Peraduenture I ſhall learne ſomewhat by it.
Ioiada
That Chriſt dyd neuer cauſe tumult, for outwarde thynges, but dyd alwayes ſtudy to peace & tranquilitie, we wyl bring the .xvii. of Mathew, where he ſpeaketh to Peter after this maner: Leſt we do offēd them (that is to ſay, that do receyue the didragme) go thy waye to the ſea, & caſt in, thy hoke, and the fyrſt fyſh that cometh, open his mouth, & thou ſhalt fynde a ſtater, take it and geue it for the & me. In the. xxii of Math, when he was aſked, of the yearely tribute, that was payed vntounto Ceaſar, he did ſo fly from tumulte, that he dyd iyone bothe god and Ceaſar togither, biddyng them to pay their duty to eche of them. Nor, he dyd not condempne them, that dyd receyue. Nor agayne he dyd not ſay: Bleſſed are they, which doo geue. He dyd not ſay: ye owe nothyng by Goddes law, but notwithſt andyng geue: wo be, vntounto hym, that dothe receyue. In the .xiii. of Iohn, Chriſt doth ſo teache hys Diſciples: I geue you a new cōmaūdement, that ye louelove eche other, as I hauehave loued you. By this, ſhall all men know that ye be my Diſciples, if ye louelove eche other. And incontinent in that long ſermon that he made vntounto his Diſciples, after his Maundy, he doth chefely ſpeake of the Spirite of the faythfull. And a lytell afore, he ſhoulde ſende his Apoſtles, he dyd ſaye: Peace vntounto you, as my father hathe ſent me, ſo I ſende you. The .xiiii. chap. Rom. Paule ſayeth: The kyngdome of God, is neyther meate nor drinke, but rightouſneſſe, peace and gladneſſe in the holy ghoſt. For, he that ſerueth vntounto chriſt in thoſe thyngꝭ, is accepted both before GOD, and before men. Therfore, let vsus followe that, whiche belongeth to peace, and edifieng, one towarde another. In the .i. Cor. i. he dothe exhorte the Corinthiās, after this maner: I beſeche you, brethren, in the name of oure Lorde Iheſu Chriſt, that ye dooe ſpeake all one thyng, and that there be no diſſenciōs among you, but that yee bee one whole bodye, of one mynde & opinion. Let no ſuche contenciōs be among you, that one ſhoulde ſay: I am Cephas diſciple, another, I am Pauls: an other, I am Chriſtes. Is Chriſt diuided: was Paul crucified for you? Or were ye baptiſed, in the name of Paule? When ye do ſay ſo, ar ye not yet carnal? Moreouer, loke, & conſider what Paul writeth in the xii. cha. to the Cori. exhortyng them to concorde & charitie, by the exemple of the body and the lymmes. In the .xiiii. he ſayeth apartelye, that God is not aucthor of diſcencion, but of concorde and peace, whiche thyng may be ſene, in the Churches of the faythfull. In the .iiii. to the Epheſians, Paule doeth exhort vsus, to behaue oure ſelues, and walke ſo, as it doeth become the vocacion wherwith, we are called, with all obeiſaunce & lowlyneſſe, with gentlenes of hert, forbearing eche other thorough charitie, and that we ſhoulde ſtudye to kepe the vnitie of the ſpirite by the bounde of peace, beyng (ſayth he) one body & one ſpirite, as yee are called in one hope, of your vocacion. There is but one Lorde, one fayth, one Baptiſme, one God and father of vsus all▪ &c. In the▪ ii. chap. to the Philippians, with lyke ſtudy, exhorteth he, the faythfull to be of lyke affection, to hauehave betwene them ſelfes, louelove & charitie, to be of lyke mynde & lyke iudgement, and that nothyng ſhoulde be doone among them, by contencion or vayneglorye. But by humilitie & lowlyneſſe of hearte, euerye man ſhoulde thynke an other mā, to be more excellent, then he is himſelf. &c. Are not theſe, ſufficient teſtimonies?
Sy.
What dooe theſe thynges agaynſte the Anabaptiſtes?
Io.
Very much, for thei proue and ſhew manifeſtli, that the Anabaptiſtes be authors of tumulte and ſedicion.
Sy.
What is that?
Ioi.
That is to ſay, that they againſt al good ordre, and exemple of the Apoſtles, dooe make ſtryfe & contencion in the Churche of Chriſt, & that only for certayne outwarde trifles.
Sy.
But they doo teache many thynges of God and of faythe. What outewarde thynges are they, wherfore they do make diuiſion in the Churche?
Ioi.
If they ſhoulde preache none other thyng, but of God, of faith, charitie and innocencye of lyfe, it ſhould be no neede of this ſeperacion. For theſe thynges are taught alſo in our Churches. ſo that it is no neede at all, that they ſhoulde preache. But they ſeperate them ſelues therefore, becauſe that they teache theſe thyngꝭ hereafter reherſed, that is to ſaye: That we hauehave neede of a new Baptyſme, and that a Chriſten man may not receyue rentes, nor reuenewes: That Chriſten men are free frome paiyng of tythes: That a chriſten man may not beare rule or be a maieſtrate: That no man is boūde to make a lawful othe, when he is commaunded, by the maieſtrates: And alſo they doo take away richeſſe from chriſtē men. Are not theſe, outwarde thynges? And agayne, do they not for ſuche thynges diuide & trouble the Churche? Beſyde that, they doo bynde their diſciples, that they ſhall not heare the worde of God among them, where Baptyſme of chyldren is vſed, rentes and tythes payed, any lawfull othe is made, magiſtrates be, & richeſſe ar counted good. Nowe call in remembraunce, the places and teſtimonyes, that we hauehave brought and aledged afore, of Chriſt, & of his Apoſtles, & ponder well, whether this ſeperation, is Apoſtolicall, or ſedicious.
Sy.
It ſkylleth not that ye cal them ſedicious. For that dyd chaunce to Chriſt, and to his Apoſtles, to be accuſed of tumulte & ſedicion. But in this thyng, they do prayſe God, and geue thankes, that they be counted worthy, to ſuffer for the name of Ieſu, remembring what Chriſt ſayeth: Bleſſed are ye when men dooe curſe you, and ſpeake all euyll againſt you, reioice and be glad, for your reward is great in heuen.
Ioia.
Why doeſt thou leaue that clauſe which Chriſt added vntounto it, when he was ſpeakyng ſuche thynges?
Sy.
What hauehave I lefte?
Ioia.
Lying (ſayth he) for my ſake. That we dooe call the Anabaptiſtes ſedicious, it is not doone for Chriſtes ſake, but becauſe, that they do diuide Churches beyng well ordered and pacified, for the thinges afore named. The which thyng neuer Chriſt nor his Apoſtles dyd. Nor we doo not lye, when we accuſe them of tumulte, and ſedicion. For the thing is ſo manifeſt, that it can not be denyed. But they that imputed ſuche thinges to Chriſt, and to his Apoſtles dyd lye, and dyd not ſay trewe, as it appeareth by the xxiii. of Luke, the .xvi. & .xxiiii. of the Actes. There were ſome which dyd falſely reporte, that they preached agaynſt paiyng of Tribute, vntounto Ceaſar, ſeducyng the cōmens, and mouyng ſedicion, whiche thynges were not true. For neither chriſt, nor his Apoſtles dyd it, but rather taught the contrary alwayes. But the Anabaptiſtes, becauſe, that they repugne againſt publike magiſtrates or rulers, and go aboute to abolyſſhe the ordinance of God, are ryghtfully called tumultuous, rebels and ſedicious heretikes.
Symon.
I woulde gladly (if I myght obteyne that thyng of thee) that thou ſhuldeſt leaue, that word, Heretike: For as often as I heare it, I dooe all quake and tremble in my herte.
Ioia.
When I dooe ſay heretike, I dooe not vnderſtande him, that the rude & vnlerned people doth meane, but him that is aucthor of ſectes, and maketh diuiſion in the Churche, which doth obſtinately breake and trouble the vnitie of the Churche, with falſe and erronious opinion. But I wyll bringe mo places to confirme my concluſion.
Symon.
I wyll gladly heare them.
Ioia.
In the xx. of the Actes Paul ſpeakyng vntounto the ouerſeers, beynge aſſembled togither, at Miletyng, dyd byd them to take heede to them ſelf, & to the whole flocke, ouer the whiche, the holy goſt hathe made them ouer ſeers, to gouerne the Churche of God, whiche he had purchaſed with his owne blood. For ſayeth he, I do know this well, that greuous wolfes, ſhall after my departyng, entre in, not ſparyng the flocke: euen from you ſhall ryſe men, ſpeakynge peruerſe thynges, to drawe after them diſciples. Thou ſeeſt, my Symon, the nature of heretikes, whiche is, to make diuiſion in the Churche, to get vntounto them diſciples, or folowers of their hereſye, not to ſpare the flocke, to ſowe diſcorde, to teache peruerſe thynges, to allure men, to reyſe or ſtyr vp partes, ſectes, & factions, to congregate a particuler Churche.
Sy.
Theſe argumentes do almoſt touche the Anabaptiſtes. For they make diuiſion in the Churche, and do bring vp and maintayne a ſingularitie amonge theim or by themſelfes. But haſt thou more teſtimonies or places?
Ioiada
Paule doth warne the Romaines with theſe wordes, ſaiyng: I pray you, brethren, that yee looke vponupon them, that cauſe among you diſſencion and ſtrife, agaynſte the doctrine that yee hauehave learned, & that ye doo flye from theim. For they that are ſuch, do not ſerue vntounto our lord Ieſu Chriſt, but to their belye, and by blandiloquence, & flatteryng, diſceiue the hartes of the ſimple.
Sy.
This aucthoritie the Anabaptiſtes do vſe, but agaynſt you.
Io.
Conſyder, my Symon, in your mynde, howe truly thei do bring ſuch thyngꝭ agaynſt vsus. Where dyd we euer make diuiſion in the Churche? whiche thynge is familier and proper vntounto them? Where dyd we euer put offēdicles, or ſtombling blockes, vntounto the church? Where as, they hauehave made an innumerable ſorte of mē ſo perplexed and doubtfull, that they do abhorre from the goſpell & do beleue neither vsus, nor them. Paule did more lyuely expreſſe them, that do diſceyue & ſeduce the people with fayre ſpeakyng, ſeruyng to their belyes, in the iii▪ chapiter to the Philipenſes, with theſe wordes: For many do walke, of whom I hauehave ſpoken many tymes, and now doo ſpeake weeping, enemyes of the croſſe of Chriſt, whoſe ende is perdicion, whoſe belye is their God, and glorie or reioyſyng, in their opprobriouſneſſe: Which do care for earthly thyngꝭ only. Nowe iudge, my Symon, vntounto whom theſe thinges may be applied, vntounto vsus, or vntounto the Ana. baptiſtes. They vociferate and crye alwayes, agaynſt Tythes, Tributes, Riches, Othes, Magiſtrates, propertie of goodes. We do preach Faith, Innocency of lyfe, Charitie, & that men may vſe all thinges well, as the gyftes of God. Who boaſteth more, or reioyſeth in reprochefull thingꝭ, then thei do, that is to ſay, in their Catabaptiſme, or oppinion agaynſt Baptiſme. in forſakyng of their houſhold, & in their ſlouthfulnes, wherin thei do wander aboute, as ydle vacaboundes. Moreouer, of theſe thynges, that they do teache, tumultes, ſediciōs, warres, robbyng and ſpoilyng, dyd alwayes ryſe. I thynke thou doeſt vnderſtande, whom Paule dothe call belyes, and enemyes of the croſſe of Chriſt.
Sy.
If thou haſt any more teſtimonies or places, I pray you, hyde not them from me.
Ioia.
Touchyng the vnitie of the church againſt the Anabaptiſtes, ther is a ſinguler place, in the▪ x. of the Hebrues: Let vsus (ſayth he) conſider, & looke one vponupon another, for thys intent, that wee maye prouoke eche other to charitie, & good workes, not ſorſakyng the mutuall felowſhip or congregacion of vsus, as ſome men ar wont to do. And what other thyng do the Anabaptiſtes, but for the weakeneſſe, or (as they doo ſay) for the wyckedneſſe or vngodlyneſſe, of ſome, forſake the Churche▪ and exhorte other to dooe the ſame.? But let vsus come now to the .iiii. concluſion, which ſhall ſhew playnly, that the Anabaptiſtes are falſe prophetes, & enemyes of the Croſſe of Chriſt.
Sy.
Bryng it furthe, that I may heare what it is.
Ioia.
They are falſe prophetes, whoſoeuer they be, that doo affirme, that Chriſt dyd only aboliſh & take away, originall ſyn. They are falſe Prophetes, that do deny grace, & forgyueneſſe of ſynnes vntounto them: which, after that the truthe is once knowen, do fall agayne, into ſinne or error. They are falſe Prophetes, that do attribute, ſaluaciō, vntounto our workes. Syth that the Anabaptiſtes do teach theſe articles, thei be not only enemies of the croſſe of Chriſt, but more ouer do denye Chriſt.
Sy.
They do no ſuche thingꝭ,
Ioi.
Though they do not with their mouthe. denye Chriſt, yet notwithſtandyng, thei do in very dede deny the vertue, and ſtrengthe of Chriſt, & of his death: as Peter dothe ſaye .ii. Peter .ii. for ſwearynge the Lorde, that bought them. Is not all one thyng, if a man ſhould ſay Chriſt is not. And there is no ſuche thynge, wherefore Chriſt dyd come? Chriſt dyd come to take away our ſynnes, whiche thyng if he dyd not, Chriſt is not Chriſt. If he be dead onelyonly for them, that were in the old teſtament, and not for vsus, he can not bee our ſauiour, and how is he then Chriſt? If ſo be that our workes, do ſaue vsus, is he not dead in vayne? Doeſt thou not ſee, how the enemyes of the Croſſe are knowen?