A Wholesome Antidote Against Anabaptists, Dialogue 5

A Wholesome Antidote Against Anabaptists · Dialogue 5

The .v. treatie or dialoge.

Of the vocacion and office of preachers, againſte them, that ingerate them ſelues beynge vncalled.

Ioiada.

AS for that, that thou gathereſt, by this cō cluſion, y^• ſo, it ſhulde not, be iaufull for eueryevery man, to ſpeake and talke of god, thou goeſt far out of the waie, and doeſt not vn derſtond my ſaiynges. I ſpeake of common preachyng, and not of priuate communicacion or talke. For he that taketh vponupon hym to be a common preacher, not being called, doeth rauen as he, that maketh hym ſelfe, by his owne authoritee, a kyng or gouernour, makyng & callyng together a particuler Senate or counſeill, & beginneth thus, of his owne heade, to rule and adminiſtrate the common welthe, commaunding, and forbiddyng what ſo euer pleaſeth him. Truly, no man, can dooe this, but y^t he ſhalbe accuſed, not onelyonly of foliſheneſſe & diſobedience, but alſo of tumultee, and high treaſon. Elles, we do not denaie, but y^t eueryevery man maie talke of god, yea & maie ſynge of him, accordyng to y^e doctrine of Paule .iiii. Epheſy. And the more, y^t it is done, the better we alow it. But to ſeparate him ſelf frō y^• church to ſeke woods & corners, & there to aſſemble a company, to inſtitute & ordein ſectes and to take vponupon them ſelues, beyng vncalled, & vnſent, the office of preachers: not onelyonly, it hath no example, in y^• holy ſcriptures, but hath ben iudged and condemned alwais as heretikall. But we will now, corroborate and ſtrength theſe ſaiynges, with holy ſcripture. In the epiſt. to the Rom. x. chap. Paule teacheth after this maner: who ſo euer calleth vponupon the name of the lorde, ſhalbe ſaued. But how can thei call vponupon hym, in whome they hauehave not belued? and how ſhal thei beleue in hym, of whom thei hauehave not harde? And how can they heare without a preacher? And agayne how ſhal thei prea: the, except thei be ſent? By theſe wordes of Paule, we maie perceiue, that ſendyng is veary neceſſary, whiche doeth not equally pertaine vntounto all men. For Paule .i. Corin. xii ſaieth, that there be many giftes. And eauen as the body is one thynge, and hath many lymmes, which lymmes, though thei belong all to one body, yet neuertheleſſe, hauehave not all owne offyce, in the body, ſo it is in the churche, and miſticall body of Chryſte. God dyd putte and ordeyne ſome, in the churche, to be apoſtels, ſome to bee prophetes and interpretours of ſcriptures, ſome to bee teachers, ſome to bee poteſtates and rulers, ſumme to hauehave the giftes of healynge, ſumme to miniſter to the poore, ſumme to gouerne, and ſumme agayne to hauehave the knowledge of tonges. If ſo bee, that the offyce of teachyng, ſhulde equally perteine vntounto al men: Paul would hauehave ſayed, that god hadde ordeyned all, to bee prophettes, and teachers, but he ſayeth: he hathe ordeyned ſumme to bee apoſtels. &c. Why dare then the Anababtiſtes preſume ſo much, as for to ſet them ſelues forthe, by their own autoritee, to preache & to teach, againſte the doctrine of Paule? Hebrues .v. No man (ſaieth he) doeth vſurpe, or preſumptuouſli take that honor vntounto hym ſelfe, but he, which is called by god, as Aarō, ſo chriſt did not glorifie hym ſelfe to bee made biſſhoppe, but he that ſaied vntounto hym. Thou art my ſonne and to daye hauehave I begotten the. And in an other place: Thou arte a prieſt for euer, after the order of Melchyſedecke. After this maner dooeth Iohn Babtiſte, teſtifye of the miſſion and ſendynge of Chryſte in the fyrſte, and thyrde chapiter of Iohn. And of his owne ſendyng, doeth he hym ſelfe ſpeake, in the .i. cha. of Iohn, ſaiynge: There was a man ſente by god, whoſe name was Iohn when he was alſo aſked, by what authoritee he did teache and babtize, he did bryng forthe out of Eſaie and Malachie, a teſtimony and witneſſe of his miſſion and ſendyng. So the Apoſtelles were bothe called and ſent, as it appeareth, by the x. and .xxviii. of Mathew, by y^• laſt of Mar. and .xx. of Io. Paule doeth teſtifie in y^• begynnyng of his epiſtels, and ſpecially in the epiſtell to y^• Galathiās, that he was called. In the .xiii. of the Act. he with Barnabas, is ſegregated by the holy ghoſt and ſent to preache. In Moiſes alſo, & in all the prophetes their miſſion and ſendyng is manifeſted. But agaynſt them that dooe renne, beyng not called, and without ſendyng doe preache, in the .xxiii. of Hieremy, the lorde ſpeaketh thus Thei did renne, but I ſent them not. Therfore, I do thynke, that this concluſion is ſufficiently proued, and that it is manifeſte enough, that the Anababriſtes dooe not in this thyng, behaue them ſelues wel and godly, whiche, thowgh thei be not called, doingerate and thruſt them ſelues, in to the office of preachers Which thyng (as we doe reade) was neuer done by none of the Saintes.

Symon.

All this that thou haſt brought, dooeth nothyng agaynſte the Anababtiſtes For thei ſaie, that thei bee ſent, by the father, and by the holy ghoſt.

Ioiada.

To what thing or for what pourpoſe. Symo…. To teache the truthe, to preache of god, and to rebuke ſynne. Ioiada. It is proued before (as thou thy ſelfe haſte graunted) that we dooe, the ſame thynge, in thoſe places, where the goſpell is preached. What neede hauehave we then of this miſſion, and ſendynge of the Anababtiſtes. To theſe places where the goſpell is preached, god dooeth not ſende men to plante and ſet errours, to moue ſedicion, and to teache contrary doctrine, to the truthe, to ſeparat and make diuiſion in the churche. But the Anababtiſtes, dooe all theſe thynges, therfore, they bee not ſente by god. For god, is not the god of dyſſencion, but of peace, and concorde, .i. Corin. xiiii.

Symon.

Thei ſaie alwaies, that they bee ſente of god.

Ioiada.

Thei doe ſaie ſo in dede, but not truely. For Sathan can tranſforme and tranſfigurate hym ſelfe into an angell of light ii. Corin .xi. but he is not therfore a good aungell.

Symon.

Is it not written in the .iix. cha. of Iohn, that he, which is of god ſpeaketh the woorde of god? the Anababtiſtes dooe preache the worde of god, therfore, they bee ſent of god.

Ioiada

Arrius dyd preache the worde of god. That is to ſaye, the father is greaterthan I am, ergo he was ſent by god.

Symon.

Not ſo.

Ioiada.

Is not this the worde of god, the father, is greatterthan I am?

Symon.

He dyd preache the worde of god beyng falſely vnderſtonded, wrethyng and wraſtynge the ſcriptures, ergo he was not ſent, of god.

Ioiada.

The Anababtiſtes dooe the ſame, the refore they bee not ſent by god, though, they dooe neuer ſo muche boaſt and crake, that thei doe preache the truthe and worde of god. Which thing, all the heretikes dyd before, and Sathan alſo dooeth vſurpe the worde of god, Mathew .iiii. but it foloweth not, that he is ſent by god. That ſaiynge, whyche thou haſt brought out of the .iii. chapiter of Iohn, perteyneth onelyonly to Chryſte, who becauſe y^• he was come frome god, hath perfite knowlage, of diuine and heauenly thynges. Which thing Iohn Babtiſte, goeth about to proue to his diſciples.

Symon.

The Anababtiſtes doe ſaie, that ye doe deprauate the ſcriptures.

Ioiada.

It ſkylleth not what they ſaie, whyche are nothynge ſhamed to lye, as it ſhall manyfeſtly appere hereafter. For ſythe that by this authoritee taken out of the. iii chapiter of Iohn, and applied to Chryſte alone, thei adſcribe vntounto them ſelues that, which belongeth to Chryſte onelyonly: who dooeth not perceiue and ſee, that thei be enemies of the truthe. We know, what ſklanderous wordes thei doe vomite out, and ſpeake agaynſte vsus, callyng vsus theues, robbers, Antichriſtes, falſe prophetes, and ſeductors. We doe impute this to the weakeneſſe of the fleſſhe, and forbeare for Chryſtes ſake. We might cleare our ſelues, if nede were, & proue that thei doe beelye vsus. But ſo thei hauehave nede to proue, y^• thei be ſent of god, by other thinges thē by ſklanderous wordes and railinges.

Sy.

I can not ſaie none other, but that I hauehave harde them ſaie, that thei are ſent of god.

Ioiada.

No doubt there is, but that thei be ignoraunt, and know not, whiche waie, god doeth call, & what are the tokens and ſignes of vocacion and ſendyng. For thei, that are called & ſent of god, are manifeſted by certaine tokens and ſignes whiche doe folow, that it maie appeare, that thei be truely called and ſent either by miracles, or by manifeſt vocacion and ſendynge, but ſpecially by dexteritee or apteneſſe, integreted of lyfe, conſtauncy and ſtedfaſtneſſe, erudicion and learnynge, woorthy ſuche ſendynge and vocacion.

Symon.

what, and if ye dooe faine all this, without ſcriptures?

Ioiada.

I wyll proue all, that I hauehave duplicate page duplicate page ſaied by the worde of god. A littell afore, that Chryſte did departe from his apoſtels, he did ſende them, vntounto the worlde, to preache the goſpel, vntounto all cretures, but before, y^t thei ſhoulde take in honde this offyce, they ſhulde tary a while in Nieruſalem till they were endued with grace frome aboue. For he dyd promiſe vntounto them, to ſende the promiſed ſpirit and comfort our of the father vponupon them. And after, that thei had ones receiued the holy ghoſt, with it, thei did receiue, the knowlage of all ſciences, ſpeches, & tongues. Luc. xxiiii. Act. ii. whan Moiſes dyd draw backe, and did bryng many excuſes, knowledgyng hym ſelfe, to bee without vtterance, vneloquent, chyldiſſhe, and vnmete for that offyce, that god woulde hauehave ſent hym to: the lord, did promiſe, that he would be in his mouth, as, he dyd alſo promiſe to his apoſtelles, ſuche mouth and wiſedome, that no man ſhoulde bee able to reſyſte agaynſte it. Mathew .x. Paule writynge to Tymothe and Titus, concernyng the election of byſſhoppes, requireth ſuch one, as, is apte to teache, able to exhorte with wholſome doctrine, whyche can reuycte, and confounde them, that reſyſte and withſaie the truthe .i. Timothe, iii. Titus .i. There Paule doeth forbydde, that none of them, whyche were newly conuerted, ſhoulde be admitted to the office of a preacher. Netherto, hauehave I brought places and teſtimonies out of the ſcriptures, touchyng the learnyng, that ought to be in an ouerſeer or byſſhop. Now ſhall we heare, what the ſcriptures doe teſtifie and witneſſe concernyng the miracles of them, that are ſent. We dooe therfore alleage here the wonders, that Moyſes did ſhewe, in Egypte and other innnmerable ſignes, and tokens, that bee written in the Actes, the manifeſte impoſicion of handes, and that thei dyd receiue the holy ghoſt viſebly. Moreouer that thei, whiche be ſent, ought to be laufully elected and choſen by a common aſſent, we dooe dryng the firſt chapiter of the Attes, vponupon the election of Mathias the vii. and .xiii. of the Actes vponupon the election of Steuen Paule and Barnabas. The .xiii. chap. alſo of the Actes doeth manifeſtly ſhewe, that Paule and Barnabas, when thei had created, thorow all the churches by a generall election prieſtes or ſeniours, laiyng their handes vponupon them, and had made theyr praiers with faſtyng, did committe them vntounto the lorde, in whome thei had beleued. Now thou ſeeſt, my Symon, that in y^• times of the Apoſtels. eueryevery man dyd not raſſhely aduaunce nor ſette for the hym ſelfe to preache. For if it hadde ben ſo, what ſhoulde hauehave neaded any election, and impoſicion of handes? But election was made after praiers & faſtyng. The ſame is alſo written in the epiſtell to Titus.

Sy.

What, & if thou fyndeſt all ſuch thynges, among the Anababtiſtes?

Io.

Not y^• leſſe iote, of al y^• aboue reherſed thīges, ergo thei are not ſēt by god, but ſēſualitee and ipmpudent boldeneſſe, dyd impell & moue them. For, what myracles doe thei? except, theſe are, to be called miracles, that they, with their pernicious doctrine, dooe brynge men, out of their right, and godly minde, in to ſtarke madneſſe, or, that thei, make the gammons, and legges of bakon, hangynge in the larders, of the ſymple and poore people, inuiſible? What learnynge, ſhould we loke for, where rudenes, and (as thei do ſpeake themſelues) ſimplicitee, is taken for hyghe rudicion? I dooe paſſe ouer here, many of them, whiche can ſcarcely reade, yea and what wyll ye ſaie of them, y^• can reade no maner of thyng Are not theſe, y^• neophites (by y^• neophites, I meane not onelyonly them, that are newly conuerted, but ſuch as doe lacke learnyng) that Paule do reiecte? But thei promote them, that by all their lyues tyme, did neuer reade the Bybles, hauyng onelyonly in readineſſe, certaine ſentences, not vnderſtonded, which beyng, either plucked out, of al partes of ſcripture, or ſtolen, or els borowed, of their gydes & leaders, thei dooe wrethe, wraſt & turne to contencion, w^t all maledicence, & reuilyng. And ſo, ſtondyng among the ſimple people, hauehave alwais in their tonges endes, y^• father of heauen and the ſpirite. What name, my Symon, maie conueniently, be geuen vntounto them? I maie not call them apoſtels, for thei are not ſent, by god. Again, thei do not preache wher nothīn hath ben yet preached of god but where y^• people, hath ben a long duplicate page duplicate page ſeaſon, & with the great labour of the true and faithfull miniſters, taught the waie of truthe there doe thei breake in, deſtroiyng, peruertyng, &, as a ſtorme or tempeſt, ſtirryng vp, all thinges, makyng the commons ſo perplexed, and doubtfull, that thei know neither ende nor begynnyng. If any man, ſhoulde call them prophetes and expoſitours of the ſcriptures, it were none other thyng, but to call a filthy ſwine, an excellent & cunning Muſician. For thei are ignorant in al maner of tongues, in ſo muche, that thei doe contemne them, being content with y^• vulgare tongue onelyonly, If thou calleſt thē doctours, they know nothynge leſſe, than the right waie and trade of teachyng, Beſides, that thei want the truthe, whiche is chiefly required in a teacher. But paraduenture, thei will be called biſhops and ſheapherdes. Why do y^• lacke then al ſuche excellent giftes, as Paule requireth in a teacher or biſhop In ſo much that thei be vnlearned, ſtriuers, contencious and rude neophites? Briefly they hauehave nothyng, that perteine to y^• office of a teacher. Wherby any man maie perceiue, that the Anababtiſtes, are ſuche, as doe ſend them ſelues, beyng perplexed, ſedicious debatefull, & ambitious heretykes.

Sy.

Thei be bothe choſen, and ſent.

Ioi.

By whome?

Sy.

By their church Moreouer, one brother, dooeth lai his hand vpō y^• other, geuing hym ful power & autoritee.

Io.

This ſendyng, & election, maketh me, to remēbre y^• biſhop of Rome, for after, that the biſſhop of Rome, dyd ones get & pourchaſſe vntounto hym ſelfe, thorowgh diſobedience, tirannie and pernicious crafte, ſuche great power: by and by, dyd he promote to biſſhoprykes, eueryevery mule keper, bawdes and blody ſouldyours▪ But, who did teache them, to ſeuer and diuide the churche, beynge vnited, and glued with faithe, and charitee? ſeynge that there is but one God, one faythe one babtyme, and one churche? Who hathe ſent the authours of this ſecte, to make and congregate a new churche? Truely, amulacion, enuy, ſtrife, contencion, auaryce, ambicion, and ſtiffe pertinacy. I could wel and ſufficiently proue all theſe thynges. except, I ſhoulde here wittyngly, ſpare ſome people. Their Churche therfore, is not the Churche of God, but a certayne ſecte, and congregacion of ſtyffenecked and diſobedient people, among whom, there is no more iuſt election, then is in the company of rebelles & traytours, whiche forſakyng their owne prince or gouernour, doo retchely, & without aduiſement chuſe, thys man or that man, to be their Capitayne. But let vsus graunt, that it is a Church, yet not withſtandyng, they erre in election, whiche is not vſed among them, accordyng to the preceptes of the apoſtle, Donatus, dyd gather a particuler Church. Nonatus lykewyſe, & bothe in Affrica. And yet not withſtandynge, none of theim both, was called or ſent by god. And their Churche alſo, were no Churches, but conuenticles or aſſembles of Heretikes.

Symon.

What thynkeſt thou by the ſaiyng of ſ, Paule .i. Corin. xiiii. where he doth geue free libertie, vntounto all men to preache, or interprete the Scriptures.

Ioiada.

I am of the ſame ſelfe opinion, that Paule is: Two or three (ſayth he) may ſpeake in the church: Let the other heare and iudge. Finally, if it be reuelated to an other ſyttyng by, let the other holde his peace.

And by and by it followeth: For ye may al prophecy, one after another, that all may learne and hauehave couſolacion.

Symon.

By theſe wordes, it appeareth. that Paule dothe not geue libertie to eueryevery man, to preache what he liſteth, whē he nameth ii. or .iii. and byddeth the other to heare, & to geue attendance to that that the Prophetes (in the newe Teſtament, ſuche, as do expounde the ſcriptures are called Prophetes) do expounde and ſet furthe out of the ſcriptures. Nor he doth not gyue lyſence to the hearers, to interrupte the ſermons of the Prophetes, excepte it be, when any thyng is lefte or peruerſly expounded by the Prophet, or interpretor. By this, it foloweth, that it is not ſemely ne comely, that any mā ſhuld interrupt, if the truthe be ſufficiētly enucleated & ſhewed, muche leſſe, that any man ſhoulde, vnderunder ſuche pretence and colour ſewe in, or bring in his errors. I doo ſee & perceiue, that the effecte of the matter doeth conſiſt, in thys thyng: If it be neceſſary, if any thyng be omitted and lefte, by them that are Prophetes, that oughte not to bee omitted, or whiche beynge lefte, maye dooe harme: and agayne, which being ſhewed, may edifi the churche, that then it may be ſhewed vntounto them, by any mā, but that, with al ſobreneſſe and charitie. If nothing be wanting or lackynge, all the audience to holde their ptace.

Ioiada.

Thou takeſt the ryght ſenſe of it. For it foloweth by and by: The ſpirite of the Prophetes, is ſubiect to the Prophetes. For God is not the auctor of confuſiō, but of peace. The Holy ghoſt doth not breake furth raſhely, & with affection and ſtryfe, but is treatable: nor he dooeth not ſtyffely contende for eueryevery lyght matter, but ſuffereth him ſelf to be inſtructed, and taughte: & ſo geueth eaſely place, to him that hathe better vnderſtandyng. But the Anababtiſtes are farre from al ſuch thinges, boaſtyng neuertheleſſe a ſpirit, but as Iudas did boaſt his Apoſtleſhip: ſayut Iames, dyd not without a cauſe, warne vsus, ſaiyng: Let not many maſters be among you, knowynge that we ſhall receyue greatter dampnaciō or iudgement, that is to ſay: we that are teachers.

Symon.

But here thou haſte brought me into a greter dout: For now I aſke the: Whether of theym two▪ is greatter, the Prophet. vntounto whom the ſpirit is ſubiect, or the ſpirit? If thou ſayeſt, that man is gretter, then the ſpirite, beware that thou doeſt not attribute to much to a mortall and frayle man. If the ſpirite is hygher, how can that thyng, which is gretter, be ſubiecte to a thyng, that is leſſe. If ſo bee, that thou preferreſt the ſpirite vntounto men, & agayne wyll hauehave the ſaiyng of Paule to be true, I do not perceiue, by what reaſon it can ſtande. Or howe can a man be greatter, then the Spirite, whiche maketh hym a Prophet?

Ioiada.

Thou dooeſt aſke righte well this queſtion. But it is to be noted, that Paul doeth not here take the ſpirite for the holy ghoſt, whiche is the thyrde perſone in trinitie, but for the gyfte & operacion of the ſpirite of God. The ſenſe and meanyng of this place, is therfore, that the gyfte of prophecy, is ſo in the power of the Prophet, that hath it, that he maye bothe ſpeake, & holde his peace, in the congregacion of the ſayntes, when, and as long, as it is expedient for the hearers. For they are not ſo inſtructed and moued, with the ſpirit, as mad, and phantaſticall men are, that they ſhoulde all cryout at once, with an vnſemely clamor, murmuryng one agaynſt another, with a debatefull contencion & ſtryfe: For ſo, one coulde not vnderſtande another. The ſpirite of God is gentle, treatable. and peaſable, not ſtirrynge or mouyng any man to contenciō, and debate, but to peace and vnytie. Wherfore he ſayeth: ye may Prophecy all, one after another. To the which expoſiciō, Theophilactus, agreith, interpretynge this place, after thys maner: The ſpirite, that is to ſay, the grace of the holy ghoſt, which is in thee, the operacion or workyng, that hath inuaded thee, is ſubiecte to the gyfte or grace of another man, which is moued to Prophecy, that is to ſay, dothe geue place & hearing. But now, if thou be ſo pleaſed, let vsus go aboute the thirde Concluſion.

Symon.

I am well content, begynne thou.