A Wholesome Antidote Against Anabaptists, Dialogue 3

A Wholesome Antidote Against Anabaptists · Dialogue 3

The third treatie or dialoge.

How that the ſpirite, which repugneth agaynſt the ſpirite, that ſpeaketh in the ſcriptures, is not from the father of truth, but from the father of lyes the deuels.

Symon.

Fyrſte and formoſt, I dooe meruell, what moueth the, to put this concluſiō where as after myne oppynion and iudgmēt, it is no nede, therof.

Ioiada.

But, it ſemeth vntounto me, to be verye neceſſarye. For manie of the Anababtiſtes, doe boaſte, I can not tel, what ſpirite, and father, agaynſte the manyfeſt ſcriptures. For whan they perceiue them ſelues, to bee ouer comed, with holye ſcriptures, and ſo holden in that they can, by no waye eſcape: by and by, they crye oute, ſayeng that the ſpiritee, teacheth them, an other thyng, that is to ſaye, eyther to holde theyr peace, or to ſpeake forthe ſome tryflyng matter▪ and that they bee, neyther ſubiecte, ne bound to the litterall ſenſe, or letter. In the which thyng, they dooe no leſſe erre, than the doctoures of the byſſhope of Rome, which in matters of fayth, wyll not admyt the ſcripture to be iudge, but referre al thynges, to theyr interpretation and ſpiritee. Is not this an hygh blaſphemie, that a ſinnefull man ſhoulde preſume, to ſete hym ſelfe iudge, ouer the word and wyl of god? asthough he ought not, to bee obedient vntounto it, excepte, he were moued, with his owne ſpiritee, and mocion, to reiecte, or receiue it. I harde ones a papiſte doctour, openly in a diſputaciō, ſaie: that we, whiche teache the goſpell, dooe teache the truthe, and dyd alowe our teachynge veary well, but that he coulde not, nor durſte ſubſcribe vntounto it, exrepte our teachynge were adprobated and alowed, by the biſſhoppe of Rome. Beholde my Symon, what abhominacion is this, that a mortall man ſhulde take vponupon hym, to adprobate, & alowe, the diuine and heauenly veritee? and ſet hym ſelfe iudge ouer god? Therfore hauehave I put this concluſion in the forefront becauſe that the Anababtiſtes, doe for y^• moſte parte, boaſt and aduaunce their ſpirite, vnderunder ſuch pretence, deceiuyng the ſimple and rude people.

Symon.

Doeth not Paule teache this, that the letter, doeth kylle, and the ſpirit viuifieth or doeth quieken? ii. Corin. iii And Chriſte doeth ſaie. Ioan. xiiii. The ſpirite ſhall teache you all truthe. It is ſpoken by the lorde alſo, Hieremy. xxxi. EueryEvery man ſhall teache no more his neyghbour, ſaiyng: knowe thou the lorde, but all ſhall knowe hym, from the loweſt, to the hygheſt: Finally, Iohn dooeth ſaie: It is no neede, that eueryevery man dooe teache you, but as the vnction teacheth you of all thinges whiche is true and is no lye. What canſt thou ſaye, agaynſt ſo manyfeſte ſcriptures?

Ioiada.

To the woordes of Paule I aunſweare thus: That Paul ſpeaketh there of the lawe, whyche kylleth vsus, as he dooeth declare more apertly in the .vii. chap. to the Romains. And by the ſpirit, he vnderſtondeth faith, and the conſolacion or comforte of the goſpell. That, it is ſo, the texte of the whole chapter dooeth teſtifie. Therefore this place helpeth nothyng your errour. For whan we ſpeake of the woorde of god we dooe not vnderſtonde the bare and deade letter, or voyde ſonnde of it. but the word well and truely vnderſtonded, and as it is, in veary dede.

And as, for that, that Chryſte dooeth promeſſe a ſpyrite vntounto his dyſciples, teachynge them all thynges, wee dooe admytte and beleue it. But that ſpyrite can not bee contrarye to Chryſte, nor teacheth any other thyng, than Chryſt hath taught Therfore doeth he adde, by and by: teachyng you, what ſo euer, I hauehave ſaied vntounto you. What dooe, theſe thynges perteyne, to the ſpirite of the Anababtiſtes, whiche teacheth contrary thynges to the ſpirite of Chriſte.

The prophecies of Ioel, and Hieremye, are vnderſtonded of that ſame ſpirite, that Chriſte dooeth bothe promeſſe and geue to his diſciples, as it is euidently ſene, in the ſeconde chapiter of the Actes, and the eyght, to the Hebrues. Iohn, in his epiſtell, whan he ſpeaketh of the vnctyon, dooeth playnely expounde hym ſelfe, ſaiynge: I hauehave written vntounto you, that ye bee not deceyued (or that, ye dooe not ſuffer your ſelues to be brought in to errour) whyche thyng, will then come to paſſe, if ye dooe ſtedfaſtely abyde, in the doctrine of the ſpirite, whiche ye hauehave harde at the begynnynge, and ſwarue not at all, from it. The holy ghoſte is the ſpirite of truthe, which canne neither lye, nor repugne againſt hym ſelfe, beyng all waies conſtaunte, vnchaungeable, eueryevery where, lyke vntounto hym ſelfe.

Now, no man can denaye, but that the ſame euerlaſtyng, vnchaungeable, and holy ſpirite, hath inſpyred the holy ſcriptures in to holy mens hertes and myndes. Whereby it foloweth neceſſarily, that the ſame ſpirite, which ſpeaketh agaynſte the meanyng of the ſpirite, that dooeth ſpeake and expreſſe hym ſelfe in the diuine ſcriptures, is not of god, but rather an humaine mayne affection, whyche, if it bee ſtyffe, maie bee deſeruyngly called, a deauelyſſhe ſpyryte, as Chryſte dooeth proue agaynſte the Iues. Iohn. viii. Or canſt thou thynke, in thy mynde, that ſpirite to bee good, whiche contemneth the cleare, manyfeſte, pure and holy ſcriptures? and when by them, he is conuicted of errour, doeth boſte an other ſpirite, whiche ſhoulde teache cleane cōtrary thinges? Is not this to deſpiſe y^• ſpirite of y^• ſcriptures, and to repugne againſt hym? As though our ſpirit meaneth truely, and the ſpirit of the ſcriptures moſt falſely? Where hauehave the Anababtiſtes learned, to ſet their ſpirit againſt y^• ſcriptures, yea and preferre hym, to the holy worde of god?

Symon.

But who hath geuen you this libertee, to iudge al thynges after the litterall ſence or letter?

Ioiada.

That, we dooe not, as thou doeſt interprete the letter. But we ſaie, that the worde of god, conteined in the ſcriptures of the Bible, is a touche ſtone, wherby ſpirites are tried. For what ſpirite ſo euer doeth agree with the ſcriptures, is of god, the father of truthe. And agayne what ſpirite ſo euer is contrary to the holy ſcriptures, is of the dyuelle, the father of lyes. Seyng therfore, that the ſpyrite of the Anababtiſtes, wil not bee ruled by the holy ſcriptures, but preferreth hym ſelfe, to the woorde of god (callynge by crafte, the woorde of god, a bare letterre) yea and ſette ſet him ſelfe iudge ouer it, he cā not be of god. For if he were of god, he would come to light and ſpeake that ſame thyng, that the holy ghoſt doeth ſpeake in al the holy ſcriptures. But now, ſith y^t he doeth not depende of the ſcriptures, but will be at his own lybertie, it is a token that it is a craft and ſubtiltie of the deuell, whiche doeth alwayes ſcatter & repugne againſt god.

Sy.

Thou ſpeakeſt theſe thynges mightily and ſtronglye, but withoute the word of god. And this is your familier cuſtome, to ſpeake many thinges without ſcriptures. As touching the ſpirite, what he techeth, I hauehave brought and alledged places and teſtimonies oute of the ſcriptures. But that the ſpirit ought to be tried by ſcriptures, or rather mācipated and bounde vntounto them, and not be at his own libertie, it is thy parte for to proue. Or peraduenture thou doſt prefer the creature vntounto the creatour.

Ioi.

What, and yf I ſhould ſay alſo: My ſpirite hath taught me this thyng. What couldeſt thou do or ſay vntounto me?

Sym.

But that is not to aunſwere.

Ioi.

Nor ye do not anſwere ſufficiently, when ye boſt your ſpirite, without or agaynſt the ſcriptures. But in this thīg we do learne, that whan it pleaſeth you, ye vſe the ſcriptures, & agayne whan ye ſee to be expede ent, ye boaſte, aud aduance your ſpirit. Whan I affirme that the ſpirite muſt be tried by the ſcriptures, I doe not mancipate nor ſubdue the creatour vntounto y^• creature, but I will that the thynge whiche is vncertaine, be tryed & proued, by y^t, which is certaine, and that any ſpirit, be tried, by the holy ſpirit of god, that is to ſaie by the ſcriptures, whether he agreeth with hym ſelf or not. And if he be like eueryevery where vntounto him ſelf to be receiued, if not, to be refuſed & reiected, as falſe & deceitful. But whan ye ſpeake of the ſpirite, ye doe vnderſtond a bare creature. For your ſpirit is not the holy ghoſt, but a carnall affection.

Sy.

Ye dooe yet without any ſcriptures of the Bible enhaunce and magnifie, the letter.

Io.

Not ſo, but rather, we here ground ourſelues, bothe vponupon y^e ſcriptures of god, and vponupon examples.

Sy.

Shew therfore, y^t the truthe, muſte be tryed, by the ſcriptures, & not rather w^t a fre ſpirit, without ſcriptures.

Io.

By thy wordes, doe I perceine, what thinge doeth begile you, that is, y^t ye do ſeuer theſe .ii. thinges, beyng vnited & inuiſebly knitted together, y^t is to ſaie, the ſpirite & the ſcriptures, which can nor ought to be ſeparated aſunder, the one from y^e other. For whē we name y^e ſcriptures, we doe vnderſtande y^e expreſſed worde of y^t ſpirit. For as y^e voice, or ſound of y^e worde, can in no wiſe be ſeparated, from y^e lyuely breth of y^e liuing creature So y^e ſcriptures can not be diuided from y^e ſpirit y^t inſpireth thē for y^e ſcripture, is y^e expreſſed wil of god, but now wil I bryng y^e teſtimonies & places w^t thou requireſt, our lord Ieſu Chriſt, vntounto whom y^e heuēly father, did geue witnes from heuen, & who hath receiued the holy ghoſt, after no meaſure, did not deſpiſe y^e ſciptures, in ſo muche that he dyd corroborate all his ſaiynges, by them onelyonly, and did commaund that the Iewes ſhould trye both his woordes and factes, by the ſcriptures. Ihon. v. and Luke xvi. He biddeth them to lyfte vp their eyes to Moyſes & the prophetes, and not to apparaunte ſpirites. He reprouyng alſo the Saduceis, did ſhewe that this was the cauſe of their errour, be cauſe that they were ignoraunt in ſcriptures, or neglected them Mark .xii. The Apoſtles (as we may vnderſtand by the booke of the Actes) did receiue abundātly in the beginyng, the holy goſt & that by a ſertaine viſible tokē. And yet not withſtandyng, did thei not therfore forſake or contēne y^e ſcriptures, nor boſte their ſpirite againſt thē. But rather did proue & ſtrengthen all their ſermons, with the worde of god preachyng nothyng els, but the pure and playne ſcriptures. Theſe thynges are euydently proued, by the epiſtels of Peter. Iohn doeth plainely ſhewe and teache that the ſpirites owght, to be tried, whether thei bee of god or not .i. Io. iiii. Wherby, it is euydent enowgh, that ſpirites owght to be tried, and that thei be not ſo free, as the Anahabtiſtes will hauehave them. And how thei muſte bee proued, it is manifeſtly declared in y^t place. Paule whiche was rauiſſhed, in to the thyrde heauen, and dyd learne his goſpel of Ieſu Chriſt, beyng hym ſelfe, the choſen veſſel of god, full of the holy ghoſt, and heauenly wiſedome, neuer the leſſe before the kyng Agrippa, he doeth teſtify, that he dyd teache nothyng beſide Moiſes, and the prophetes. Act. xxvi. In the epiſtell to the Galathians, y^e firſt chapter, he ſaieth thus: if I, or an angel of heauen, ſhulde preach vntounto you, any other thīg, then ye hauehave harde, let it be anathema, or acurſed, He alſo warnyng and teachyng Tymothe, that be ſhoulde beware of falſe and erroneous doctrines, dyd directe and ſende hym, to the redyng of ſcriptures. But reade thou the iii. chapiter of the ſeconde epiſtell, to Tymothe, and it ſhall appere, what we owght to iudge and thynke of the Anababtiſtes ſecte, what of the ſpirite, and of the ſcriptures.

Sy.

That place, is knowen well enowghe, and I am almoſt perſuaded. But this vexed my mynde, that Paule ſaieth that a ſpirituall man, iudgeth all thynges, but he is iudged of no body.

Ioiada.

I longe to knowe of the, of what ſpirite, Paule doeth ſpeake there.

Symon.

But I hauehave leauer to heare it, of the

Ioiada.

Conſidre the woordes, y^t go before. For he ſaieth thus: We hauehave not receiued the ſpirit of the world, but the ſpirit, whiche is of god, that we may know what thynges, hauehave ben geuen vntounto vsus by Chryſt.

Symon.

But to what purpoſe did Paul ſpeke here, of the holy ghoſt.

Ioiada.

I aſke of the, wheather y^t ſame ſelfe ſpirite dyd not inſpyre the ſcriptures.

Symon.

Truely, that ſame ſelfe ſpirite.

Ioiada.

Seyng therfore, that it is all one, and bothe the ſame ſpirite, that Paule ſpeaketh of here, and that whiche ſpeaketh in the ſcriptures, hauehave I not proued, that Paule, by a ſpirituall man did not vnderſtond hym, which boaſteth, I can not tell, what ſpirite, deſpiſyng in the meane ſeaſon the ſcriptures, but ſuche a ſpirituall man, as is and will be ruled and gouerned by the holy ghoſt, that waie, that he ſheweth and expreſſeth hym ſelfe, in the holy ſcriptures? He therfore that ſtriueth againſte the holy ſcripture and inſpiracyon of the holy ghoſt, can not bee that ſpirituall man, whome Paule doeth ſpeke of. Now, if he be not ſpirituall, he can not iudge, but he muſte be iudged. The Anababtiſtes therfore can iudge nothyng, but ought to bee iudged and tryed, by the worde of god. Hathe not here the ſpirite of the Anababtiſtes loſt bothe his win ges? But I do remembre other ii. places, whiche dooe vtterly ſtoppe the mouthes of the Catababtiſtes. The firſt is, in the .x. chapiter of the Actes, touchyng Cornelius the centurion, which although he was elected by god, yet not withſtandyng, beyng ſo tawght by the angell, did ſende meſſangers, to fetche Peter, y^t he migh heare by hym, the preachīg of our ſauiour Ieſu chriſt. If that, the ſpirite ſhould diſanulle and aboliſſhe the ſcriptures, it ſhulde folow, y^t this outwarde preachyng and ſuch like thinges, wer done in vaine. The other is in the .xvi. chapiter, concernyng the Theſſaloniens, whiche after that thei had harde the preachyng of Paule, dyd daily ſeke and ſerche the ſcriptures, to knowe, wheather Paule dyd teache true or not. Which thing, thei wolde not hauehave done, if the ſpirites ſhoulde not be tried by the ſcriptures wherefore what ſo euer the Anababtiſtes dooe teache concernyng this thynge, is falſe and erroneous, and not vnlike vntounto the errour of Montanus.

Sym.

What monſtruous thyng is y^t?

Ioiada.

This Montanus about .xiii. hundred yeres a go, was a great heretike, who did almoſt ſpeake of the ſpirite, as the Anababtiſtes dooe. For thei do cal in again, the old & aboliſſhed errours, as it ſhall appere hereafter.

Sym.

Go forth I praie y^e, and let vsus diſcuſſe the argumentes of the ſecond concluſion. For I can not beleue that none of the ſaynttes (whiche thyng thou doeſt affirme ſtifly) did thruſte them ſelues, into the office of common preachers, excepte thei were called. What other thyng is this, but (as the biſſhop of Rome hath done in times paſte) to hyde the truthe frome the commons, that none, ſaue onelyonly thei, that are learned, dare ſpeake and talke of it? Where as, not withſtandynge, god did manifeſt him ſelf to the littell ones and not to the wiſe. Mathew. xi.

Ioiada.

I will doe it gladly, but I wil firſt confute that, which thou bryngeſt of the learned, & of the ſymple. For it is not conuenient, that I ſhulde paſſe ouer theſe thynges vnſpoken, ſithe that therwith ye doe blynd the eyes of the ſimple and rude people.