A Revelation of the Apocalypse, Chapter 17 · Commentary · Refutation · Chapter 5
Chapt. 5. Against the ſecond Demonſtration: from the deſolation of the Romane Empire.
The ſecond Demonſtration, you ſay, is taken from the other ſigne that goeth before the times of Antichriſt, which ſhalbe the utter deſolation of the Romane Empire, which ſeing it yet endureth, Antichriſt is not yet come. Hereupon you take in hand to prove two things; firſt that Antichriſt ſhal not come til after the utter deſolation of the Romane Empire: ſecondly, that the Romane Empire dooth yet indure. The firſt you confirm by fowr ſcriptures: of which, the three firſt, namely Dan. 2. and 7. Apoc. 17. doo rely upon the interpretation of Irenaeus, book 5. But let us leav, I pray you, mens names, and let us weigh the thing it ſelfe, in the ballance of truth. If the matter ſhould be diſcuſſed by the contrary opinions of men, which might be found many in theſe dark places; ther would be no end. Let us deal rather from ſuch principles, as may lead and bring us to ſome certainty.
As touching therfore the 2. of Daniel, and that ſucceſsion of the chief Kingdomes until the worlds end, which the Images sheweth, nothing out by the golden head, the ſylver breſt, the brazen belly, the leggs, and the feet partly yron and partly clay; the 4. cheif Kingdoms on earth, of the Aſsyrians, Perſians, Greeks, Romanes; the laſt wherof the Romane you ſay, was a long time parted in two, as the leggs are two and long. Moreover that of the two leggs ſhould ſpring ten toes, and in them the whole Jmage have an end: to weet becauſe the Romane Empire ſhould at laſt be divided into ten Kings, of whom none ſhould be King of the Romanes, as no toe is a leg. As touching theſe, I ſay, what one word is ther in al this viſion, which intimateth that Antichriſt should come after the Romane Empire is utterly defaced? I hear there are tow leggs, and the feet divided into ten toes; but not a whit concerning Antichriſt, whither he should come after this diviſion, or before it, or in the time of the diviſiō. Doo you goe on thus to build your Demōſtrations, without any ſo much as ſhew of a foundation wheron they should rely? Yea what if the contrary may from hence moſt firmly be concluded, that Antichriſt shal come before Chriſt cometh? But the Romane Empire shal not altogither be deſtroyed, until Chriſt be come. For thē feet of iron and clay shal dure, until the ſtone out of the mountayn, cutt without hands, shal ſmite them & beat them to peeces, as is plainly shewed, ver. 34. thou ſaweſt until a ſtone was cut out, which is not in any hands, and ſmote the image on his feet of yron and clay, and brake them to peeces: and agayn in the 44. verſe, And in the dayes of theſe Kings shall the God of Heaven ryſe up a Kingdome, which shall never be deſtroyed &c. But theſe feet, are the Romane Empire: weaker in deed than it was before, of the leggs; yet is it the Romane Empire notwithſtanding. For the Image deciphreth fowr Kingdomes onelyonly: but if the feet should have an other Kingdome than the leggs, ther should be five. Wherupon alſo that is falſe which you ſay, that the Romane Empire ſhal at laſt be divided into ten Kings, of which none ſhalbe King of the Romanes, as no toe is a leg. For thus you bring in a fift Kingdome, which the Spirit by the Image ſayth not. Neither is that of weight, that a toe is not a leg: ſeing no one member is an other, though both be parts of one whole thing, even as the toe and legg, be of the fourth Kingdome. Now therfore you may ſee, how fayrly you have made demōſtration of your nakednes; which the more you ſeek to cover and hide, the more conſpicuous and filthy you doo make it.
The ſecond place is out of Dan. 7.7. where, you ſay, the ten hornes which come out of the laſt Beaſt, are the ten laſt Kings which ſhal ariſe out of the Romane Empire, but shal not be Romane Emperours: as the hornes ariſe out of the Beaſt, but ar not the Beaſt it ſelfe. I anſwer, as even now I did to the former argument, which was the ſelfe ſame that this. If theſe ten hornes have a Kingdome divers from that of the Beaſt: then ar ther not fowr Kings onelyonly, but five; contrary to that the Angel affirmeth, ver. 17. theſe great Beaſts which are fowr are fowr Kings, which ſhal riſe out of the earth. Moreover, doo you think that the 4. hornes of the Goat, which roſe up in place of that broken horn, was another diſtinct Kingdome from the Kingdome of the Goat, to weet, an other than of the Greeks? Dan. 8.8. If ſo you think, the Prophet ſheweth you are playnly deceived, who teacheth that this Goat of the 8. chapter, is the Leopard of the ſeventh: and that the Leopard is one Kingdome onelyonly, and the third: chap. 7.6.17. As therfore the Goats horns make not a different Kingdome from the Kingdome of the Goat: ſo neither doe the ten horns of the fourth Beaſt make a different Kingdome of the 4 Beaſt. Ther be alſo the ten horns of the Dragon, in this Apocalypſe, which are not rebellious Princes agaiſt the Dragon, but his cheif defenders, legates, and adminiſtrators, by whoſe help he moſt exerciſed his tyranny, Apoc. 12.3. Beſides, the ten horns ar not the diſſolution of that Empire, whoſe body remayneth after they are riſen up. But ſo the viſion teacheth evidently, that the Beaſt (namely the fourth) should not be ſlayn and his body deſtroyed, before the horn, which ſpringeth up after thoſe ten wer broken and taken away, Dan. 7.11. Wherfore the ten horns, doo no way ſignify the diſsipation and fal of the Roman Empire, wherby to afford us any help, for the finding out of Antichriſts coming. VntoUnto theſe may be added, that which this argument hath common with the former, that neither is ther any mention of Antichriſt here. In deed the litle horn growes up after the reſt; and ſome learned men doo apply it hither: but neither doo your ſelfe now inſiſt upon this horn; and we have shewed before, in the ſecond chapter herof, that this expoſition is untrue.
The third place is out of Apoc. 17.16. where the ten hornes you wil have to be ten Kings, which shal reigne togither; but shal not be Romanes, becauſe theſe Kings shal hate the whore and make her deſolate, and ſo shal divide the Romane Empire among themſelves, and utterly deſtroy it. I anſwer, It is even marvelous that you ſee not the playn contrarie to that you intended, here proved. For if this hatred, wherwith the ten Kings shal hate the whore & make her deſolate, be the fal and ruine of the Romane Empire, then ſhal Antichriſt come before the Romane Empire be deſolate. For ther shalbe hatred long before this, and the ten Kings shal ſerve her a great while before they shal thus riſe up in wrath againſt the whore, according to that which is written ver. 12.13. And the ten hornes which thou ſeweſt, are ten Kings, which have not yet received a Kingdome, but shal receive power as Kings at one houre with the Beaſt. Theſe have one mind, and shal give their ſtrength and power to the Beaſt. Moreover, theſe are the hornes of the Beaſt, not of the Romane Empire divided, ver. 3. Which if they ſignify any diviſion, the Beaſt shalbe divided from his firſt ariſing. And further, ſeing they shall riſe at the ſame houre with the Beaſt, they shal not goe before him, whereby to declare by ſome praecurſion that he foloweth behind them. VVherfore nothing at al can be concluded from hence concerning the deſolation of the Romane Empire, as of any ſigne of Antichriſt coming.
The fourth place is out of 2. Theſ. 6.7. And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be reveled in his time, onelyonly that he which now holdeth, may hold, til he be taken out of the way, and then shal the wicked man be reveled &c. Where the Romane Empire, you ſay, hindreth Antichriſts coming, who shal take his Empire out of the way, for their ſinns: and ſo doo the Greek and Latine Fathers expound this place. I anſwer, I doo acknowledge that the ancient Fathers (as I hav often ſayd,) did not level aright in theſe matters, for that being farr diſtāt from the event of things, they were led onelyonly by coniectures. They knew ſo much as concerned their owne times. Yet remember, I pray you, what manner deſolation Ierom underſtandeth, who wil have him that did hold, to be taken out of the way, in his time; he that did hold, ſaith he, is taken out of the way &c. as before I cited him. So that by his judgement, the Romane Empire was then ſo deſolate, that ther was no let, on this behalfe, to hinder Antichriſts coming. And ſurely Gregorie ſayd not right, All things are doon that were foretold, the King of pride is nigh, if ſuch a deſolation had been to be looked for, as you ſpeak of; or ſuch ten Kings should goe before, as you Papiſts doo mention. Therfore thoſe Fathers were eyther altogither ignorant that ther was this let: or they ſo wavered to & fro in a doubtful opinion, as no firme and ſtable thing can be gathered from their ſayings. But the Apocalyps being now very much illuſtrated by the event, putteth the matter out of controverſie, and explaineth Paul moſt certainly and faithfully, teaching that the withholder is not the Romane Empire, but the ſixt Romane King. Five ſaith he, are fallen; one namely the ſixt, is; the other is not yet come, chap. 17.10. that is, the Hethen Emperours, which make the ſixt King, doo now reign; which being at length removed, and delivering Rome empty to the Pope, the ſeventh King ſhal come, evē Antichriſt. The Romane Empire is after a ſort one; but the manner of adminiſtring it by divers Magiſtrates, and the kinds of governing, was manifold. Neither could it be ſaid, five Romane Empires are fallen, but five Kings, which were the Rulers and Moderators of that one Empire. More over Antichriſt is the ſevēth Romane King; for ſo the Angel plainly ſaith, and the Beaſt which was, and is not, and is the eight, and is one of the ſeven, verſe 11. Should the Romane Empire be deſolate, whiles the King therof was alive? nay verilie; but rather by bearing of him, the whore Rome ſhould greatly flouriſh. Therfore when Antichriſt cometh, the Romane Empire is not to be deſtroyed, but during that time fore-appointed of God, is marvelouſly to be conſerved, increaſed, amplifyed. We may underſtand therfore Paul and the Angel to ſpeake of the ſame impediment: but the Angel more plainly and clearly deſcribing it by place, dignity, and number; by which moſt playn and true ſignes we might be led as by the hand, unto Antichriſts cradle. Wherfore Antichriſt should come, whiles the Romane Empire is ſafe and flouriſhing: and ther was need that the Emperour should give place to the Pope, and leav his habitation free. You therfore Bellarmine, rely upon a manifeſt errour, wherby it wil come to paſſe, if in time you take not heed, that not expecting Antichriſt before the laſt overthrow of the Romane Kingdome, you wil be by him oppreſſed & deſtroyed, before you perceive that he is come.
Your ſecond propoſitiō is, that the Romane Empire dooth yet endure, which I grant without contradiction, and now as you ſee, without any detrimēt to the cauſe which I have in hand. Although in the head of this Empire, which I wil tel you in few words, you are ſurely much deceived. You think the Emperour hath this dignitie; and in deed I confeſſe, he hath it in name and title; but the Pope hath the thing it ſelfe. For the Romane King muſt be the head of the whore Rome, which the Emperour is not, but the Pope, who maketh the ſeventh & eight head, as is declared Apoc. 17.11. Moreover the Emperours, ſince firſt the Beaſt began, have wholly ſerved him, as the Apocalyps alſo sheweth, ſaying, and they ſhal give their power & their authoritie to the Beaſt; and the practiſe of al times, confirmeth it. Which ſervitude proceeded ſo farr, that they received a marke, and yeilded an oath of fealtie; that I ſpeake nothing of the other moſt unworthy wayes, wherby the Beaſt trode under foot the Emperial Maieſtie. Finally, the toes of the foot now divided, are holden togither by no common bond of the Emperours name, but onelyonly of the whore of Rome. For what have Spayn, France, Venice, Florence, Naples, to doo with the Empire? Al theſe toes cleave togither in the common foundation of the Popes authority, which is the onelyonly foot now, wherin theſe al agree and grow togither; and not the Empire, with which they have in a manner nothing to doo. Therfore the Emperours are in deed the Beaſts horns, but neither the leg of the Romane Empire, nor the foot, but a toe of the foot, or the great toe perhaps whē it pleaſe the Pope. You Papiſts with certayn painted titles doo dazel their eyes; but they wil at length awake, and handle your Rome, according to their authoritie. The things which you diſpute for the Empire and Emperour, are vayn. Ther remaineth yet, you ſay, the ſucceſſion, and name of the Emperour of the Romanes: and by Gods marvelous providence, when the Empire fayled in the weſt, it remayned ſafe in the Eaſt: and when this fayled, it was erected agayn in the weſt. I anſwer; the ſucceſsion of the Empire remayneth not in the Emperour, but in the Pope. VVhen the ſixt head fel, the ſeventh ſucceded, to weet the Pope, and not the Chriſtian Emperours, who then received a horned dignitie; the ſucceſsion of which dignitie, and no other, they tranſferred to their poſteritie. They have the name of Romane Emperours, but it is a title without ſubſtance: even as the Romane Church is caled Catholik, & many ſuch like. But in refining the truth, we muſt look to the authority of the holy Ghoſt, not to the vayn words and voices of men. In deede Gods marvelous providence ſhined in conſidering this dignity, ſuch as it was, both in the Eaſt and VVeſt. But this providence is careful no leſſe for the horns then for the head: that is, aswel for theſe that are caled Emperours, as for the Pope. Both of them are by his decree, which appointed, that ſome of the toes of the foot, should be of yron. Neither dooth he hinder him, you ſay, from being Emperour, though he wanted Rome, which you prove by the example of Valens, Arcadius, Theodoſius the yonger, Charles the Great, and his ſucceſſours: then by the dignitie of going before al other Chriſtian Princes: moreover by the election of the Romanes: and finally by the Lutherans confeſſion. I anſwer to everie of theſe; and to the firſt, that if Valens, Arcadius, and Theodoſius the yonger, wanting Rome, remained nevertheleſſe Romane Emperours; then the VVeſterne Empire fayled not, neither doth the Eaſterne Empire fayl at this day, though the VVeſtern Emperours want Conſtantinople, if right be ynough without poſſeſsion. But the Kingdomes of this world are his that holdeth them: and although they be gotten for the moſt part by wickednes; yet God by his juſt judgement taketh from one, and giveth to another. Yet dooth not this his adminiſtration, quitt the robbers of crime: but he puniſhed in marvelous manner, both by abaſing one, and contrariweiſe advancing an other. It is therfore ſomwhat of more weight to want Rome, for this that any should be the Roman Emperour, than you ſpeake of.
VntoUnto the ſecond, namely that dignitie of going before al Chriſtian Princes, I confeſſe the Emperour goes before al the reſt: notwithſtanding, he that goes before al theſe, comes after the Pope, as none is ſo unskilful but ſeeth, in whom the Maieſtie of the Empire truly reſideth.
VntoUnto the third, be it that Charles the Great was created Romane Emperour with conſent of the Romanes: yet the Apocalyps teacheth, that the Romane Empire is tied to the citie of Rome, not to the clamour of the Romane people.
VntoUnto the fourth, the Lutherans boaſting that they have three Prince Electours of the Romane Emperour, doo rather folow cuſtome of ſpeaking, then the truth of the thing: or if in deede they ſo perſwade themſelves, it is through the common errour; the meaning of the Apocalypſe, not being by them as yet ynough perceived. Wherfore you gull the Emperours with a deceitful title, who whiles the Romane Pope poſſeſſeth Rome, neither truly are nor shalbe Romane Emperours: and thus you contending that the Romane Empire dooth yet indure, have not found in what place it is, whoſe both head and habitation you are ignorant of. From this reſtored Empire by the Pope, doo Luther, Illyricus, and Chytreus rightly gather, that he is that great Antichriſt. Yet not ſo much becauſe Charles the Great was declared Empetour by him, as for that the Empire did revive in the Pope, who being a Bishop in name, was made Emperour in deede. This is evident by this, that the Beaſt hath a head both wounded & healed; for both theſe perteyn to the ſame Beaſt. Alſo, the Beaſt which was not whiles the Barbarians prevayled, is that verie ſame which is when they are extinguished. Moreover Antichriſt is both the ſeventh King from Conſtantine, unto the Kingdome of the Gothes; & the eight by a new riſing up after the healed head by Iuſtinian, and Phocas, & the reſt folowing, as is explayned Apoc. 13.3.11. and 17.10.11. You anſwer, that the healed head, is not the Romane Emperour, but Antichriſt, who feighneth himſelfe dead, and by diveliſh art, ſhal riſe himſelfe up againe: and that ſo almoſt al the ancient Fathers doo expound it. VntoUnto this, I ſay, that you doo not rightly disjoyne the Romane Emperour, and Antichriſt: which two, if we would ſpeake properly according to the Apocalyps, doo make one and the ſame perſon. Not that he which at this day is caled Emperour, is Antichriſt: but becauſe whatſoever is in this name Emperour, it naturally belongeth to the Pope. For both Pope, and Romane Emperour, or Romane Empire, were wounded to death by the invaſion of the Goths. For the ſeventh head which then ſeemed to perish, was both a hill and a King; that is, Rome or the Romane Empire, and the Pope, Apoc. 17.9. It is true therfore which you ſay, that the text it ſelfe playnly compelleth us, by that head of the Beaſt, which was dead and revived, to underſtand not Charles the Great, but Antichriſt. For Charles the Great, was not Emperour indeede: but howſoever he did not dye and live agayne, yet the Romane Emperour or Empire in the Pope, did die and live agayn, as is ſufficiently ſaid before. By which alſo may appear, that that which is commonly ſpoken of Antichriſts feighned death and reſurrection, is a playn fiction: a feighned death is in ſport and voluntary; but Antichriſt dyed this death againſt his wil, and with ſore payn; from which death when he began to come forth, very great was the torment of his freſh wound, as witneſſeth Gregorie the Great, by his many mournful lamentations.