Doctor Hills Reasons for Upholding of Papistry Unmasked, Dialogue 3

Doctor Hills Reasons for Upholding of Papistry Unmasked · Dialogue 3

p. 87THE THIRD REASON. Vnitie and Consent.

T. HILL.

THe Catholike Romane Religion, being received by so many Nations in Africa, Asia, & Europa, and in this last age in both the Indies, hath, notwithstanding such variety of wits, such diversitie of māners, such multitude of tōgues & lāguages, such distāce of places, such nūbers of matters to be beleeved, yet ever kept Vnity & Concord in such peaceable & consonāt māner, as never any one in Englādor Irelād, which are the vttermost parte of the VVest-world dissented or disagreed in anie point of doctrine cōcerning faith frō him which lived in the vtmost partes of the East. But whosoever they be or in what place or Region soever they remaine in al the world, if they be Catholikes or Papists, (if you wil cal thē so) they all have one Faith, one Beleefe, one Service, one number of Sacraments, one Obedience, one Iudgement in all, with other like points of Vnion and Vnity, which maketh a geuer all Vniformity also in the peace of mens mindes, and to bee breefe, they have all one hart and one soule.Act. 4Acts 4

p. 88G. ABBOT.

1 WHen that Italian Didapper, who intituled himselfe, aaPraesat in explicatio. triginta sigillorum.Philotheus lordanus Brunus Nola…us, magis elaborata Theologia Doctor, &c. with a name longer then his body, had in the traine of Alasco the Polish Duke, seene our Vniversity in the yeare 1583. his hart was on fire, to make himselfe by some worthy exploite, to become famous in that celebrious place, Not long after returning againe, when he had more boldly then wisely, got vp into the highest place of our best & most renowned schoole, stripping vp his sleeues like some Iugler, and telling vsus much of chentrum & chirculus & chircumforenchia (after the pronunciation of his Country language) he vndertooke among very many other matters to set on foote the opinion of Copernicus, that the earth did goe round, and the heavens did stand still; wheras in truth it was his owne head which rather did run round, & his braines did not stand stil. When he had read his first Lecture, a graue man, & both then and now of good place in that Vniversity, seemed to himselfe, some where to hauehave read those things which the Doctor propounded; but silencing his conceit till he heard him the second time, remembred himselfe then, and repayring to his study, found both the former and later Lecture, taken almost verbatim out of the workes of bbDe vita coelitus cō paranda.Marsilius Fic…us. Wherwith when he had acquainted that rare & excellent Ornament of our land, the Reverend Bishop of Durham that now is, but then Deane of Christs-Church, it was at the first thought fit, to notifie to the Illustrious Reader, so much as they had discovered. But afterward hee who gaue the first light, did most wisely intreate, that once more they might make trial of him, and if he persevered to abuse himselfe, and that Auditory the thirde time, they shoulde then do their pleasure. After which, Iordanus continuing to be idē Iordanus, they caused some to make knowne vntounto him their former patience, & the paines which he had taken with them, & so with p. 89great honesty of the litle mās part, there was an end of that matter. If I had beene at Palempine with you Doctor Hill in your chāber, when you were writing this worthy work, I should hauehave dealt so charitably with you, as after the first & second reason to tel you, that some one or other of the Heretiks in Englād, would soone disery, where you had borrowed your stuffe: but when I had perceived, that you had been bold with ccMotiv. 27.M. Bristow for this third Reasō also, I would hauehave intreated you to hauehave done somwhat of your selfe, or to let all alone, least some body should tel you, that by D. Fulke the most part of your booke was answered before it was made. But since I was then absent from you, & now it is too late to stop you at the third stone, you must bee content to beare your owne praise; and I satisfie my selfe, that assone as I can cōveniently, I acquaint you with it. And hereafter it may be that we shal receiue from you, ddTerent in Prolog. Eunuchi.Nullū est …ā dictū, quod non dictū sit priùs, or some other Apologie for such borrowing.

2. That your Antichristiā poison hath infected too many in Europe, & some other places, we cānot but acknowledge, & exceedingly grieue at it also; were it not that God had fore tolde, that there should be such an ee2. Thes. 2, 3 Apoc. 17. 2.2 Thess 2:3Rev 17:2Apostasie, & Princes & Nations should be intoxicated by the Whore: but that the extēt of your infectiō, is not so large in Asia & Africa as you praedicate here, I shal hauehave occasion to shew you, in my answer to your fift Reason. You pretend that, notwithstāding such variety of wits, manners, languages, places & matters to be beleeved, (you should hauehave put the sixth also, as ffBristow. Motiv. 27.your M^r. doth, such difference of opinions amongst learned mē, which you did leaue out, least you should insinuate to any, but a very favourable Reader, a cōtradictiō to your own position) such vnity hath beene kept, as that in faith & doctrine, he who liveth in the most Westerne coūtries of the old inhabited world, hath not dissēted frō him, that resideth in those of the East. where by the way you faile a litle in your Geography, as wel as in your Divinity: for it is much doubted of Ireland, but certainly known, that Englād is not so far to the West as Gallitia, or Portingale: but in Africa, the partes about Marocco doe without controversie exceede them all Put this therefore in your negligences. But all Papists in the worlde hauehave one faith, one beleefe, one Service, one number of p. 90Sacraments, one Obedience, one Iudgement in all, and the peace of their mindes is such through their vniformity that they hauehave all one hearte and one soule. What their sympathy of affection in other matters besides Religion is, if we could not learne by ggGuicciard lib. 9.Pope Iulius the second, in person making warre against Mirādula, & the Frēch, then also lying in the field when all was covered with snowe: or by hhNatal. Comes Hist. l. 9King Philip the second of Spaine, most eagerly watring by his Generall the Duke of Alva, against Pope Paulus the fourth himselfe: or by the iiConestag. lib. 7. Histo.Spaniards prosecutiō against Don Antonio and his Portingales: or by the much louelove, which Henry the third King of Fraunce with the Duke of Espernon, did beare to the Guize and the Leaguers, & they to them; or by the long continued kkThe estate of English fugitiues.factions betweene our discōtented English Fugitives beyond the seas; yet our Romanists at home would lately teach vsus; where the Iesuits and the Arch. Priest with his adherents on the one side, and divers of the Seculars on the other side, hauehave exercised such contentions, and almost deadly fewde each against other, that all England and a great parte of Europe hath rung of the same; yea the Pope himselfe and his Cardinals are no straungers therevnto. And by your leaue, the rest of the Papists being either at liberty, or restrained, throughout this kingdome, hauehave not beene all of one heart, one obedience, one iudgement aboute these businesses; but there hath beene not only dislike, but intestine hatred also in some of them, against the blabbing Priests, and the party opposite to the Iesuites.

3 And doe all Papistes agree in matters of doctrine, of faith, and of beleefe, when the llQuodlib. fol. 21. in margine. A dialogue betweene a secular Priest and a lay gentleman fol. 97.Iesuits are charged to giuegive toleration to come to the Protestants Churches, and the Seculars do withstand it? When the Iesuits vphold the Bul of Pope Pius the 5. & the Seculars doe question it? When the Iesuites mainetaine, that the Excommunication Consistorially given against her late Maiesty, is a right and Papall sentence: but the Seminarians & their abetters, avouch it to bee a matter of fact, and not of faith, and therefore the Pope may there in erre. And is there one beleefe when you cānot doctrinally agree, whither the Pope or the Generall Councell be the greater? When not long since mmPigh. Eccles. Hier. lib. 1. 2.Papists did mainetaine, that the authority of the Church was aboue the p. 91Scriptures, but the nnBellar. de Concil. lib. 2. 12.Iesuites now deny it; and the ooIn Gal. 2. 2.Gal 2:2Rhemistes as moderatours cannot well tell what to make of it, but in some sences rather bend to the prerogatiue of the Church? And as you hauehave reformed many other things in Popery, so is your service the same? When your Breviaries or Porteises are so much altered since the time of the Councell of Trent, and so many shamefull things put out, which if they were impious or idolatrous, your people before those daies were in a pretty pickle. As Georgius & Timotheus being more nasute then their predecessors, did purge their ppSocr. Eccles Hist. 7. 6.Arrianisme, and cleared it of many the blasphemies of Arius, retaining such as were more plausible: so Pius the 5. cleansed the Breviary of many absurdities, and helde only those things which he supposed were more defensible. qqBellar de verbo Dei. lib. 2. 11.In your new Missals also many texts are altered, from that which was in the old. Your Legēdaries in former times were read in the midst of your Congregations, & accepted for good truth: yet now you reiect your ancient books, insomuch that rrMotiv. 5.Bristow himselfe disclaimeth vncertaine or false Miracles, which they reade, saith he, in I know not what Legenda Aurea: so contemptuously he speaketh of it: and now that only must goe for currant, which ssDe Viti… Sanctorū.Surius & Lippoman hauehave revised and allowed. Nay hath the Church of Rome ever had one beleefe, when the foundations of their faith, in which, vvill they nill they, their soule and salvation must bee acknowledged to consist, are and hauehave beene so and such among them, that no man can well tell, what to make or determine of them; I meane the Scripture which is vntounto them as a deade law, and the Pope which is as the living Magistrate. For first touching the Scriptures, we know that with them the Latin Vulgar Edition is only authenticall, and so the ssSession. 4.Councell of Trent hath defined it; whereas the Originals of the Hebrew and Greeke, which are the first and clearest fountaines, are but basely esteemed by many of them, insomuch that they ttProlog ad Lector. ante li. 1. Esdr.who put out the Complutensian Bible, say that they hauehave set the Latin there, betweene the Greeke and Hebrew, as Christ was vponupon the Crosse betweene the tvvo theeves. Now what can any man make of this their Latin Copy, when besides the difference of it from the Originals, (against which we most except) it is in it selfe so often altered, and chopped p. 92and changed? for besides the Castigations & Corrections of the Lovanists and Coleinists, and I cannot tell how many, the Pope Sixtus 5. did cause it to be revewed, & … professing that hee had amended very much of it, he made it to be new printed▪ & … praefixa Biblijs Sixti quinti.prefixed a Bul before it, testifying that he in his own person had gone through the whole Copie, and iudged of it, yea amended the faultes escaped in the Printers Presse, with his owne hand, & therfore did give charge by that his Constitutiō, which was evermore to stand in force, that it should never afterward bee altered, or any other Copy of the Vulgar Edition bee vsed. And if an…e did attempte contrary to his Decree, then hee shoulde inc…rre the displeasure of Almightie GOD, and of the Apostles Saint Peter and Saint Paule. This vvas published but in the yeere 1589. and vvithin three yeeres after, Anno 1592. commeth Pope Clement the 8. and vnderunder a coulour that his Predecessour Sixtus had intēded torevise his Bible once againe, but that hee dyed before hee could effect it, hee putteth out another, in many hundreds of textes differing from the former, so that the diversities compared togither, doe make a … prettie booke; and there is little more variety … Bellum Papale Thom… Iames.for materiall pointes, betweene the translation vsed in the Church of England, and the Rhemish Testament, then is betweene these two. And since the nexte Pope vvho succeedeth, vvill thinke scorne but to have as much auctoritie as his Anteceslour, it may bee chopped not onelyonly once more but many times: so that the Romish Church may bee saide, to bee so farre of from Vnitie in Veritie, that of certainty they have not the Scriptures, vvhereon their faith must bee builte, but they in former times, and these in this present age have various groundes to rest themselves vponupon. Secondly as nowe it is with the Scriptures, so it hath beene heeretofore vvith the Popes, when they have had 23. severall Schismes, Antipapes being erected the one against the other, and those broyles sometimes continuing, for scores of yeeres togither vvithout interruption; so that all Christendome by partaking vvith them, hath beene in an vprore, and thousandes by that meanes have beene murthered. Novve if it bee such an Article of faith; that the Church must bee beleeved, yea beleeved in, and this Church p. 93is the Romane Church; and is ministerially inspired by the heade, and the heade is not onelyonly like bifidus …, a hill vvith tvvo toppes, but triplex Gerion, or tric…ps … vvitl… three partes, as it was a little xxVide C… cil. Constantions.before the Councel of Constance, three Popes vsurping at one time, and everie one of these doe eurse to the deepest bottome of the lovvest hell all that stande against them; nay all vvho are not vvith them; and in their Consistories, if they bee Popes, they cannot erre. Will any man, vvho hath his vvittes about him thinke, that here is one Faith, and one … in the Romish Cocke-pit? And especially when these Popes, shall against the Antipapes proclaime Croisadoes, that men are to marke themselves with the signe of the Crosse, and fight against their adversaries, as against Turkes, Saracens and Infidels, the knowne enemies of the Christian profession. Heare this yee Papists & blush, when you mention your Vnity.

T. HILL.

BVT on the other side if you looke into the d…ings of Protestants, you shall see such dissensions, such divisions, such schis…s, such contra…tie of opinions, as the like was never among the Arrians, among the Eutychians, among the Donatists, among the Nestorians, among the Valentinians, … yet am…ngest the most …arring Heretikes that ever were. So as you may plainely beholde in Luther his seede the selfe same thing that the Poets faine of … his sowing; you may see Ovid. M… tam. lib. 3. Iudic. 7.Judg 7the Madianites and Amalekites in … against the people of God; builders of the tower of Babell, accusers of ch…st Susanna: for they are not onelyonly different, and devided from the generall body of Catholikes in Christendome, with whom they were v…ited …, but amongst themselves they have implacable warres.

G. ABBOT.

4. IN your whole booke you raunge frō the truth: but heere not the least of all. There are some fewe pointes in differenc… p. 94betweene the Professours of the Gospell, but you hartily coulde wish that there were more; evē as an ancient Romane, the more to satisfie the ambition and bloudy covetousnes of his Countrymen, did thus pray, Let yyTack. de morib. Germano….there remaine and continue in those Nations, if not the louelove of vsus, yet the hatred of themselues, speaking of the olde Germanes & other bordering Natiōs. But God be praysed, there is not such disagreement, and multiplicity of sects, as was among the old Arrians, who variously contended with the professours of their owne Heresie. That the Eutychians, Donatists, Nestorians and Valentinians, did very much i…rre among themselues we do not read, vnlesse you meane each sect against other, which fitteth not your purpose: since even your selues doe thinke it no disgrace, to disagree with al in the world, whom you account Heretikes, and especially the Protestants. Neither are they the seed of Luther, who as you say agree like Cadmus his men, or the Amalekites and Madianites, or the builders of Babell, or the slanderers of Susanna, but they are known Heretikes who are sprūg vp since that time, as Servetus, the Anabaptists, and other of like sort, being the seede of the zzMat. 13 25 28.Matt 13:25… man, who when men were a sleepe came and sowed tares. And albeit some of these might go out from vsus, yet aa1. Ioh. 2. 191 John 2:19they were not of vsus, as you might know by Luthers writing even at the first against these bbSleidan. lib. 10.Anabaptists, (professing that the same Divell who set them on worke, was but a grosse and foolish Divell) and ccInstit. li. 1. 13.Calvins against Servetus, and others against other. Yeam…ny men of worth of our part, hauehave not only by preaching disclaimed them, but by written bookes hauehave confuted them; with much more zeale & diligence then any of your side. And where the reformed Churches are, the Christiā magistrates being taught out of the word, and called vponupon by their Pastours, hauehave censured with severe punishment, yea sometimes so farre as ddCentur. 16 lib. 2. ca. 34. & 22.to death, such as hauehave broke out to the maintaining of any very impious and blasphemous doctrine. With these it is that they hauehave implacable hatred; and yet not with their persons, but with their opinions; for they louelove eeAugust de civit. Dei. li. 14. 6.that which God made in them, but hate that which the Divel hath infused or inserted. But the Professours of the Gospell doe not in maine points vary one from another, nor yet from the Orthodoxe Church, although they cō ioine p. 95not with the servants of Antichrist, who being Pseudo-Catholikes do arrogate to themselues the name of Catholikes. And from these that they are come forth, they are right glad; least remaining in Babylon, and ffApoc 18. …Rev 18partaking of her sinnes, they should receiue also of her plagues. It was no dishonor or hurt vntounto Lot, that he ggGen. 19. 12Gen 19:12came out of Sodome, when God did cal him, but it was his safety and happinesse: for if he had remained with them, hee had perished togither with them.

5. The matter wherewithall you may iustly charge them, is that opinion of Luther, and some of his scholers, concerning the Sacrament of the Eucharist. Where, as he d…ffereth from your monstrous conceite of Transubstantiation, so bending too farre another way, he imagineth that not only bread remaineth after consecration (which is very true) but the body of Christ also cō substantiated with the bread. And for the maintenance of this, first groweth here-vntounto, that in the bread, with the bread, and vnderunder the bread, or some way of those, is the realty of Christs person; & secondly that by the almighty power of God, he is every where invisibly; vponupon which ground the vpholders of that doctrine, are by some tearmed Ubiquitaries, and are concerning that pointe rightly refuted by hhBellar. de Christo. li. 3 cap. 11.Bellarmine. This was in Luther …rror, & lapsu… human…, which the Lord suffred in him, as he hath permitted the like both for opiniō, & slips of life too, in divers of his Saints, that thereby wee might learne that men bè men, and that this world, is iiBernard. de modo benè vivē di. cap. 10.via, non patria, the way and not our countrey, a place of defect and not of true perfection, the habitation of men and not of Angels. This consideration doth holsomely humble vsus, and maketh vsus more earnestly to pray, that we may hauehave a right vnderstanding in al things, and that we may be guided by the Spirit into all truth expedient for vsus. By this also wee are taught not to doate too much vponupon men, but only to follow them so far as they do kk1. Cor. 11. ….1 Cor 11follow Christ. And it is no shame at all, but rather a cō mendation to our Churches, that whereas he himselfe, whom we honour as an admirable servaunt of God, doth swarue from the path, be it little or be it more, wee rather follow the way, then him. But some hauehave written that Luther before he dyed, relinquished that his own opinion, saying that he had gone too far… p. 96in the matter of the Sacrament, as the llActa Colloquij Mul…unens.Ministers of Heidelberge do affirme in a Dutch booke; as mmChron. lib. 4.Genebrarde himselfe relateth vntounto vsus. Indeede it had beene to be wished, that al who came after him had beene of his minde, (if that were his minde) and had sought peace, as Philip Melancthon did▪ but all the scholers of Luther would not subscribe thervnto, but some hauehave divulgated bookes against them, whō in their heate they hauehave called Zwinglians, Calvinists, and Sacramentaries, & so having stirred vp the flames of contention, hauehave given occasions of ioy to the enimies of them both, who will soone with an nnIoy at the hurt of other.foreign take comfort in their evill. That is the fruit of Christian mens contention, as long since Gregory Nazianzen could say of a difference betweene some Bishops, about whom the people at Constantinople were divided, ooOra…. 10.My Tragedie is nothing else to our enemies but a Comedie. Therefore it is not a little, which we hauehave taken from the Churches, and added to the stage. I doe wish that the Lutherans & their con-combatants had remembred this, as for some other reasons, so to stoppe the mouth of the common adversary. But being as it is, we doe not doubt but they both are Gods servants if they liue according to the Christian rules of their professiō, since they both doe rightly hold the pp1. Cor. 3. 111 Cor 3:11foundation, that is to say, Faith in Iesus Christ, and Iustification by his bloud only. We read of one called qqSozom. Eccl. Histor. lib. 1. 14.Eutychianus, who wen… astray being in opinion a Novatian; yet he was much esteemed by the good Emperour Constantine, and there were very pregnant testimonies that he was the childe of God. rrEuse. Eccl. Hist. l. 3. 33.Ireneus held the errour of the Chiliasts, And Iustine ssDialog. c… Tryph. lud.Martyr embraced the same conceit; and yet who dare seclude them frō the fellowship of the faithful? So we doubt not, but the maintainers of the doctrine both of Zwinglius & of Luther, are as wel iointly members of the Catholike Church, and Communion of Saints, as ttConcil. Carthag. in Cyprian.Cyprian was on the one side with his African Bishops, and Cornelius was on the other side with his Bishops of Europe, albeit these had much contention each with other, and dyed in difference of opinion, concerning rebaptising thē who were baptised by Heretikes. So that (the Lords name be praysed) howsoever we could wish, that neither formerly nor now, there were any such examples, yet this contention is not the first, and it is but p. 97one, and …, as y… the Pamph… would have…. We wil ….

T. HILL

I I would you did but see what I have seene in these Countr…, as … the … …ds, … & di… of Luther his of-spring… a… of the Muntzerans, Anabaptists, Adam…, Steblerians, sabbataries, Clan… … Gart…der, Manifestarians, D…monians, Cōmon holders, …pers, Howling Anabaptists, Davidge or gi…, Memno…, Polygamists, Signifiers, Figurers, Valewers, Pledgers, Presentaries, …tamorphists, Iud…sts, Neutersacramentaries, Image-breakers, Zealons Lutheranes, Soft Lutheranes, or Interimi…, New Arrians, Trinitaries, Hell-maisters, Hell-tormentors, Antid…monians, Amidorfians, Antadiaphorists, Antosiand…lans, Anti-Swanck …dians, Anti-Calvinists, H…d-impositors, …, S…s, Invisibilists, S…turians, Adiaphorists, …, …, Luther…-Calvinists, … Pen…, …, …, …, …drians, Sta…, Antistan…, New-Man…chees, St…bergers & of such lik… … which … their … out of the dregges of Luthers doctrine, … …e … Protestants all.

G. ABBOT.

6 IN what country you have heeretofore lived, it is harde for we to tell. In England you were when you published this … & had … else-where with you, whē you penned this worke, (if else where you did p… …) hee should sc… have … two or three persons in …, of those sectes which … you …cite. But h…m …th hee … what you …we, hee … have …lying before you, a …de booke of th… … Apo… St…, vvhichwhich vvas thirtie yeeres since Apology of Fride…. …taphyl.… into Eng…, by our Countrey-man Stapleton. This Sraphy… you follovve in these vntrue reportes of yours and from his booke English…, you shamefully …ke all these …, vvorde for vvorde. VVhile I reade them, as also the … and Cities vvhichwhich else-vvhere you … Ration. ….I thinke vponupon a C… booke, which …, p. 98where … …ped to…, …spirit. In Latine letters th… it is, …, …, …, …, El, Ad…i, …, M…ssias, S…er, E…nel, …, A…ha, Paracle…, Propheta, S…des, K…s, Pant…r, all vvhichwhich shoulde enforce the spi…, to doe as the Coniure… …oulde have h…. Such a …umble and bugge-beare you propo…de vntounto vsus heere: and the Heresies vv…h you … are so much the liker to these vvoordes vsed in Coniuration, because … these for the most parte doe signifie one thing, even that immaculate essence and omnipotent beeing, GOD, how… it they be wickedly applied, so for these good fellowes whom you muster heere, many of them differ little in their opinions, although you to make a …ourish do name them severally; like a b…dde Captaine who keeping in his liste, the names of souldiers who are slaine or gone, knoweth how to make vse of deade p…y for his owne benefite. But this is the cust… of you … to make a shewe with names; … …en … a C…loge, an… to the same purpose, hath xxIn Epistol. apolog…t.… that …, In … base answere for … vntounto D. …. And may it not bee, that diverse of these vvhome you both name, may bee good Christians; as the …, … and the Scri…s, if they ho… no vvo… do… … their titles may importe? As S…nt … yyDe haere… ad Quod vul…. Deum.remembreth, that … in rehearsing of Heresies, did differ from Philastr…, and … from him, because that seemed to one of them to be an Heresie, which did not so seeme to another; so certain… if some wise man either of … your sid…, should sca… the tr… opinions of all whom … yo… …, … would prove … many to be no Heresie, wh… … do condemne. But wee praise the everlasting Lord…, that wh…as in … there is as flourishing a Church, as in any … world, we heere kn… the names of … of them, … with the p…sons of none of them, who hold such … …tions, And wee ver…ly beleeve that you lurking in our owne co…ey, have to do … as … of them. But when yo… ha… done … that favour, … to … th…se good …, and … they … holde, you shall vnderstand▪ p. 99our … And in the m…ne time kn… you, that … taught … doctrine, neither doe the … chalenge to them, if they hould ought …; … …emne them and writ… against …, … bin d…red.

7 But …o allow you so much, as in any probability you can pretend, th… since Luther… time, so many several opiniōs have spr…g vp as five & fifty, (for of so many you would make shew) yea & that the most of th… would willingly shrowde themselves vnderunder … …, yet doth this (with vnderstāding Persōs) …ke any … against that truth, which either we or Luther did professe? For might not the same have bin obiected before his death, to S…. … the Evāgelist, which you here obiect against vsus? … of the remainder of the malicious Iewes might thus h… said. We al agreed vpō the law of Moses, til you came & in… …; … vnity for our sacrifices, & concord about our … harmony of cōsent was every way to be found amonge vsus. But now while you talke of Iesus this new Saviour, yo… cānot agree among your selves, what he is, or how to be served. You … many …cts, & those iarring …h with other, the scholers of … Mag…, of … & …, of … & …, wherof some deny the …-hood, & some deny the … of your Christ, and some vary in other matt…: And you have … zzApoc. … …5.Rev 5… and we cannot tell how many kinds, and the… … will b… …, and pretend … dra… their do… from you … th… Apost…. S…. … hearing th…, would not have bin a…shed at al; but would have signified, that there was … …ght way which was chalked out, in the writings of the old & … Test…, & … b…ing walked in, wo…d b…ng men vntounto life; & th… …st … by… …, which … had ope…, … being … to draw some thither, vntounto their owne …. But if you will looke lower to the fourth age after Christ, … shall finde that you… obiection might mo… …ly have …, by … Ge…es, in …o… …. … did … … ▪ … … p. 100… you many strifes, … I know not … I should choose, what I should preferre. Everyone such, I say the truth. … I should beleeve I …, since I am … of the Scriptures, and they on both sides doe pretend the same. Yet his Conclusion is, that … of the Scripture, and such necessary consequences, as are drawne from thence, the iudgement what is truth, is to … had. But what small vnity was there among the Christians, when he wrote this? Or when Saint Austen mencioned more then bbDe haeresib. ad quod vult Deum.fourescore heresyes, which had arisen in the Church; all whom but for tediousnesse I would retire from him, as also one of Epiphanius and Theodoret, that the Reader might see that we need not to be frighted, with the pretended shew of your 55. Now might not such a one as that Symmachus was, who vnderunder the Emperour Valentinian, & in the time of S^t Ambrose, made so earnest & effectualla ccAmbros. Epistspeech, that Ethnicisiue might be restored in Rome, and altars might be permitted to their Paimme Gods, Iupiter, Mercury, Apollo, I…o and the rest, have disputed in the same manner against the Christian faith, as you now do reason? VVhile vvee retained the service of our formerly knowne Maiores & minores Dij, vvee agreed vponupon that vvorship which every God should have, wee knew their Temples, their altars, their sacrifices, their Priests, their feasts, times and seasons, vvee had vnity in our heartes; and sweete harmony in our speeches. … which you have …hed among vsus, we see nothing …, to which we may cleave▪ for howe should we be resolved what is to be embraced, when you cannot agree among yourselves, what is the … and right way? And the dif… is not, that some go to the … hand, & … the other, … a mā had … many hands, … ddPlutarch. de multitud. a…corum.Br… … which … d…ed hands was imagined to have, there … some be wanting, who with … dis-ioined … from …, would … to every one of them. If Symmachus had spoke thus, as he… … not behinde hand to vtter other … she… available … his purpose, St. Ambrose who answered … obiections, …d … have … this, … would … I … …Line… p. 101and the same individed truth, should be hemmed about with many different doctrines of Heresie.

T. HILL.

AND what divisions you have there in England, you may in some sort know, who doe (as I thinke) now and then heare Preachers of different doctrine. What combats your Bishops, Councellours, and moderate sort of Protestants have to defend their Parlimentary Religion, and the Queenes Proceedings as they terme it, against Puritans, Brownists, & other such like good fellowes, that by shew of Scriptures impugne it, you cannot but knowe and see with your eyes. Neither can it bee answered, that the Sects heere rehearsed differ one from another onelyonly in matters of small moment, for they differ and disagree in waighty points of our salvation; as might heere easily be declared, but that it would not benefite this mine intended brevity so to doe.

G. ABBOT.

8 WHen you have put on your spectacles to see, & have picked your eares to heare, you and all your confederates can neither iustly see nor heare (Gods name be blessed therfore) that either at this time, or at the divulging of this your treatise, there be or were any differences of opinion in England, concerning the faith. Our Preachers do not differ, or teach diverse doctrines in any of their Sermons. VVe have for our rule the olde and new Testament, & the eeArticul. Relig. in Synodo. 1562.Confession of our Church in the Articles of Religion, set out by the warrāt of the Scripture alone: and to these as to the Analogy of faith we do cleave, and there is no graduate in our Vniversities, and much lesse, Preachers and Pastours in our churches, but subscribe thervnto. And if heeretofore, there have bin some fewe Brownists mis-ledde, by a man who afterward was sory for his own over-sight, the name of them now (as I thinke) is not to bee heard of among vsus. And such as you cal Puritans, did never differ frō the rest in any point of substance, but about circumstances and ceremonies, as cappe, surplesse and such like, and about the manner of Ecclesiasticall p. 102regiment; even as your secular Priests lately did not thinke fitte to bee ruled by your Arch-priest and his Assistants, and yet Garnet your Provincial, and Persons the Rectour of your English Seminary at Rome, and the Pope himselfe (whether by any surreptitious Breve, or no, doe you looke) did thinke fitte to have them so ordered. But never were the Coūsellours of Estate, nor the Bishops of this kingdome, so disquieted with those dis agreements, as the Court of Rome & the Cardinals there, have beene with your ga…les in England, in as much as the bruit of these differences heere, went but to the Bishop of the Dioces, or the High Cōmission at Lōdon, but your broiles & brabbles have passed the Sea, crossed Fraunce, traversed the Alpes, & have never ceased rūning, till they have rapped at the gate of ffAppella… … Clement. 8.Clemens Octav…. What the issue of thē farther wil be, time must discover; but of this we are assured, that to your great discontentment, and to the end that we might all the better observe you, in our late Soveraignes daies of most happy memorie, the fatherly wisedome of our ch…stest Church governours, and the moderate temper of other men, being not so farre of from seemely conformity as heeretofore, did to the ioy of all good men reasonablie well cure that wound, and salve that sore, and so the shame was taken away from Israel. And had not this beene: yet if your brevity (which is but a shuffling colour, to make shewe of some things which are not) had beene turned into one yeeres or seaven yeeres longity, you could not have shewed, that in substantiall points of faith there was variāce among vsus. And therfore for that matter you do wel to do as you do, that is, put vp your pipes & make no more noise. Yet I cannot so leave you, but put you in mind cōcerning Protestants & Puritanes, that it is probable that the Controversies which then were; by your slie & secret cōveiances were the more forwarded; at the least you Romanistes did your best, by hypocrites and other your naughty instruments to cōtinue them. For the practise of your religion, being of late nothing else but mischievous policie, your Emissaries were instructed at their comming into England to sooth both sides, and to commend them, that so they might persist in their opinions. And heere I shall open to the vvorlde some thing of your cunning, p. 103vvhichwhich is not knowne to every body. There ggAt Rhemes Anno 1579.are certaine instructions, vvhichwhich, Doctour Allen in a longe continuated speech, (vvhichwhich hee dictated to his auditours, and they in vvriting tooke it from his mouth) did bestovve on such Priests, as vvere then to bee sent from the Seminarie in Fraunce, into England. And these vvere to informe them, hovve they should deale vvith all sortes of people, to pervert them from their faith. Thus therefore hee advertiseth them, If you chaunce to deale vvith a Puritane, you must say vntounto him, Truely brother for you, there is more hope then of these that be Protestants, because they for feare of the Prince and the lawe, are ready to say and beleeve any thing, and therfore me thinketh they be Atheistes: but for you there is more hope, being either hote or colde. If you deale vvith a Protestant, tell him there is more hope of him, then of such rash brained Puritanes, because they with Religion have put of all humanitie, and civilitie, vvith all other good māners. Who would not thinke that for mischievous devises, this head of Allens, was soone after worthy to be covered with a Cardinals hat? But by the leave of our Seculars, who strive to magnifie him, he did not learne this of Saint Peter, but rather of Sir Nicholas Machiavel, a man of their good acquaintance. Heere, with our Seminarie Preests, both Protestants and Puritanes were for a purpose honest men; I would that we had cause so to repute of th…se Romanists.

9 Now whereas you call the faith which we professe, our Parliamentary Religion, you are for that tearme behoulding to diverse of your good maisters. For yo… chiefe schoole-master Bristow longe since bestowed that phrase on vsus, intituling one of his Chapters, hhBrist. Motiv. 42.The Parliament Church, and Parsons vvho coulde ever readilie enlarge an vntruth; iiWardword ca. 4.saith that Peter Martyr, and Maister Bucer at their comming into England, in King Edvvardes daies, vvere conditioned vvith to teach that Religion, vvhichwhich should bee established by the Parliament approaching. It is vvell confessed by him, that our Realme in that Kinges enteraunce, was not so weake in the knowledge of Divinity, that they needed to be guided, by any from beyond the seas; but they themselves could search the kkIoh. 5. 3. 9John 5:3John 5:9Scriptures, to sifte out what vvas the truth. It vvas not so happie vvith that p. 104Conventicle at Trente, whereas it seemeth all the learned men were so simple, that they did nothing but almost verbis concep…is from Rome, which gave occasion to that meriment, that the holie Ghost who should have bin President of the Councel, was brought from Rome in a boxe. But the Religion which was then and is now established in England, is drawne out of the fountaines of the word of God, & from the purest orders of the Primitive church, which for the ordinarie exercise therof, whē it had bin collected into the booke of common Praier, by the paines and labour of many learned men, and of mature iudgment, it was afterward confirmed by the vpper and lower house: yet not so, but that the most materiall points, were disputed and debated in the Convocation house, by men of both parties, and might farther have bin discussed, so long as any Popish Divine had ought reasonably to say. llHolinshed An. 1. ….But there in the beginning of Q. Elizabeths raigne, the Antichristian Bishops to their everlasting infamie, & to the perpetuall preiudice of their cause, refused the disputation or conference, and crying creake, for sooke their cause in the plaine field, knowing right well that when Popery must bee brought to the touch-stone of Gods word, it will proove base and counterfeite. And then it being intended, to adde to Ecclesiasticall decision, the corroboration of secular governemēt, according to the auncient custome of this kingdome, (as appeareth by mmAn 20. & 25 & 38. R…gis. Edvard. 3Record frō the time of K. Edward the 3.) the Parliament which is the most honorable Court of Christendome, did ratify the same, That so all of all orders and degrees, might be bound to serve the Lord of heaven, not after their owne fancies, but as himselfe had prescribed. And that this heretofore hath bin the custome of good Princes, to cal their Nobles and their people to ioyne with them for the establishing of Gods service, every man may know, who will but looke into the stories of the Bible. For there it will appeere, that nnIosuah. …. 2.Iojuah being olde, & minding as farre as in him lay, to perpetuate the sincere service of the Lord, to all succeeding generatiōs, did assemble all Israel, their Elders, their Heads, their Iudges, their Officers, to give consent therto. So did oo… Chron. 28. 1.David, not onelyonly minding to commend to all his subiects, the succeeding of Salomon in the crowne after him, but aboue all things pure Religion. p. 105And was not this the course which Asa did take, for the reforming pp2. Chron. 15 9.2 Chr 15:9of those errours, wherwith Gods service was intāgled, when assembling all Iudah and Beniamin to Ierusalem, hee did cause them by an othe of association, and as in way of a stronge covenant, to binde themselves to God, yea and that vnderunder the paine of death, to flie Idolatrie, and to embrace true piety and devotiō. The like might be saide of other Princes who were godly. And these meetings no doubt being such assemblies as our Parliament is, or rather being some more generall matter, hee who should have termed their conclusions, a Parliamentary Religion, might have bin reputed no better thē a scoffing enimy. And so may you Doctor Hill be accounted, and Bristow in like sorte: but Persons over and aboue that, may have the name of a slaunderer, who can glose and invent any thing which may serve for his purpose, as that is that P. Martyr, and M. Bucer were indented with all to teach as the Parliament should decree, implying that whatsoever it had bin, they must have condescended vntounto it. This lying Iesuite can shew no letter, no Acte of Record, no testimony of semblaunce of truth, to averre this his calumniation. But the matter indeed was, that the reformers of Religion heere, intending to level all by the line of Gods word, knew that those two worthy men were so affected in al their teachings; and therefore, as also for their admirable learning & iudgment, they made choise of them before all the great Clerkes which were in Europe. And that those who called them hither, were not deceived in them, the excellent monuments which they have lest in writing behinde them, doe testifie to the world.

T. HILL.

THIS vnity of Catholikes and discord of Protestants most manifestly sheweth, that as the Apostles were they for whom our Saviour prayed to his father, & was heard of him. Holy father keepe them in thy name, whom thou hast given me, that they may be one as we also be one, Iohn seaventeene: so they of the Catholike Romane Religion be they, for whom in the words following he prayed, & was heard, Not for them doe I aske only, but also for them which shal p. 106beleeve, by their preaching in mee, that all may bee one, as thou father in me, and I in thee, that also they in vsus may be one, and heereof it necessarily followeth, that they be of the true Church, for that none but they observe and keepe the Unity, which he obtained …or them of his heavenly Father.

G. ABBOT.

10 THese texts did your maister qqMotiv. 27.Bristow cite, & this argument in expresse words did he frame to your handes, gentle M. Doctor, & you might have done wel, to have added some our place more of your owne reading. But to answere you both togither, this maketh nothing against vsus; for we ioyne in cōsent for all material points of the substāce of salvation, not only with our selves, but with all the faithfull and rightly beleeving, which have bin in the world, with the Patriarkes, the Prophets, the Apostles, the Fathers of the Primitive Church, and the Martyrs; neither can you, or the greatest Goliah of your side, ever proove the contrary. Touch any article of our doctrine, or any conclusion which wee maintaine, and wee will make it good against you. Staphilus rrApolog. …. Staphil.himselfe could cite it as the saying of Smideline, that among the Lutherans and Zuinglians, there is no variance of any waight or force, touching any articles of our saith, of Christian Religion. This tale therefore of discord, do you tell to your bleare-eyed followers, who cannot discerne colours: All right beleevers are satisfied for this matter. But on the other side, the agreement which is among you, is but a conspiracie against Christs honour, even such a combination as was betweene ssMat. 16. 57 Luk. 23. 12.Matt 16:57Luke 23:12Herode and Pilate, & Annas and Caiphas, the Scribes, Pharisees, Priests & people, to bring our blessed Saviour to the crosse. Your consent is not in God, nor in his sonne Iesus, but to robbe them both of their glory, & to bestowe it on your I doll at Rome. You agree to keepe your Congregations in ignorance, to proclaime your kitchin-warming Purgatory, to set your Masses & Pardons at sale, to picke mens ssSparing discovery of Iesuites.purses by your Iesuitical exercise, to leade thē as bond slaues to hell, & this is it wherin you consent. So that as one did once read Vanity for Unity, in the Psalme, Behold how good & ioyfull a thing it is, brethren p. 107Ps. 133. 1.Ps 133:1to dwell togither in Vanity, so your vnity is vanity, & your cō sent is cousenning, tobe guile God & al good Christians, so farre forth as you may. The title of this your present Chapter, might better have bin Vanity & Cousenning, thē Vnity & Consent; for you cōspire to do evil, evē to betray the soules of mē, redeemed with the blood of the everlasting covenant. The text of Ieremy would well fit this your combination. uuIer. 11. 9.Jer 11:9A conspiracy is found among the mē of Iudah, & among the inhabitants of Ierusalem, They are turned backe to the iniquity of their fore-fathers, which refused to heare my words, and they went after other Gods to serve them: thus the house of Israel & the house of Iudah have brokē my covenāt, which I made with their fathers.

T. HILL.

AND surely it cannot proceede but from the Holy Ghost, that all Sacredwriters of the Catholike Romane Church, although being Aug. lib 18. de civitat. dei Cap 41.men of diverse Nations, Times and Languages, yet have so wonderfully consented, & agreed among thēselves, as we see they have done.

G. ABBOT.

11 YOV would make your sily disciples beleeve that this propositiō of yours so frādulently propounded, is confirmed by S^t. Austen, whose words in the place quoted in your margēt, are as much to your purpose, as if a man being at Barwike, should take S^t. Michaels mounte in his way, to goe see Powles church at Lōdon. If you had but looked the title of that Chapter in Austen, it would have told you that the authour doth there speake, of the agreement of the Canonicall Scriptures amonge themselves. And if you had read the Chapter, you might have found the drifte to bee, that whereas all the olde Philosophers in their opinions and writings dissented eche from other, the pen-men of the Scriptures, being the Secretaries of the Holy Ghost did not vary at all. His words are these, uuLib. 18. cap 41 de …v. Dei.To cōclude, our Authors in whom not without a cause, the Canon of the Holy Scriptures is set & boūded, God forbid that they should dissint among thēselves in any respect. Now wil you be so blasphemous, as to ioyne your broken p. 108and barbarous writers, your Schoole-men, Dunces, Friers, with these Oracles of God? for if you do not meane by your sacred writers of the Catholike Romane Church, your Divines and teachers of the Popes rotten Religiō, you speake not to your owne purpose, you abuse your Reader with aequivocation, and your wordes as most Idle do proove nothing at all. But doe your writers indeed of such diverse Nations, Times and Languages, so wonderfully consent, as you speake of? Belike you hauehave reade but a fewe of them, or else you would see, that many of their tales do hange togither, as their xxMatth. 26. 60.Matt 26:60wordes did, who came to witnes against Christ. I suppose you have heard of a certaine booke, called the Sentences of Peter Lombard. Now I pray you good Sir, is there no where in the margent there, Hic magister non tenetur? Looke in the end of him as he was yyEx officina lacob, Du-pu…s.printed at Paris in the yeare 1573. & there you may finde, that the facultie of Divines at Paris, have condemned for errours sixe and twenty severall doctrines, avouched in the workes of that maister of the Sentences, in the first booke foure, in the second foure, in the third three, in the fourth fifteene. Of these one was, that brute beasts doe not receive the very body of Christ, although it seemeth that they doe, when they devour the Hoste after consecration. And is it not to bee supposed that the Scholers of this great Clerk, did follow their Rabbi in maintaining the same assertions? And if you will looke there farther, you shall see that those Sorbonists were many times troubled, with refuting and censuring diverse doctrines, which were set abroach two or three hundred yeeres since, and that diverse times in the depth of Popery. That little Treatise alone will satifie any man that readeth it, that in this your assertion of wonderfull consent, you are wonderfully out. Should not a man thinke that one of your learning, had heard of Thomas Vias Caietanus once Cardinall of Rome, how deepe a scholer hee was, and howe many bookes hee wrote? And did all your Popish learned men, ioyne in vnity of doctrine and opinion with him? How say you to Ambrosius Catharinus no babie among you, who wrote purposedly against him? I had leifer that Sixtus zzBiblioth. Sanct. lib. 4.Senensis should tell you the tale, because you perhaps will better beleeve him. Having then reconed vp the vvorkes of Cardinall Caietane, hee thus subioyneth: p. 109Ambrosius Catharinus Arch-bishop of Co…psa, of the order of the Preaching Friers, did vvrite as vvell against the foresaid Commentaries of the Scriptures, as against the other lesser workes of this man, sixe very sharpe bookes of Annotations or Invectiues, concerning which I leaue to everie man his owne free iudgement. And what maine matters & of great importaunce in Divinity these were, hee vvho listeth to pervse the aaBibl. lib. 6.sixth booke of the same Authour, shall see in particular. I mentioned before, that it is not agreed vponupon betweene your schoole-men, whither beastes eating the consecrated hoste, do receiue the body of Christ or no. bbLi 4. Dist. 13.Peter Lombarde saith No. Albeit if hee should be asked, what then the mouse doth eate, hee must aunswere, God knoweth. But ccPart. …. quaest. 80. art 3.Aquinas is resolute, that solong as the sensible elementes doe remaine, solong in the Eucharist it ceaseth not to bee the bodie of Christ, although a mouse or a dogge doe devour it, or it bee cast into the mire. And ddPart. 3. quaest. …5.Alexander de Hales is of the same minde. The maister of the Sentences following eeAug. Epist 28 lib. 4. Dist. 1.Saint Augustine, vvho was but a harde father to Infants, did teach that if a childe dyed vvithout Baptisme, it vvente to hell. The Divines of Paris in the Margente, giuegive him a plaine checke for the same, and our later Papistes, vvill not hauehave the babe goe to hell, but to the limbus infantum, vvhere their paine is paena damni, and not paena s…sus, a vvant of the ioyes of heaven, but the feeling of no torment. ffLib. 4. Dist. 11.Peter Lombarde sayeth, that the Eucharist is to bee received of all in both kindes, but the ggSession 13Councell of Constance sayeth that the people shall hauehave but onelyonly the breade: And yet Gerardu… Lo… chius a greate Papist, protesteth that they hhDe missa publica pro roganda.are false… Catholikes, hinderers of the reformation of the Church, and blasphemers, vvho denye the people the cuppe in the Eucharist. You hauehave hearde of the difference of your Thomistes and Scotistes, concerning the merite of Congruum and Condignum, the difficultye arising out of that place of Saint Paule, I iiRom 8 …Rom 8count that the afflictions of this presente time, are not vvorthy of the glorye vvhichwhich shall bee revealed vntounto vsus. Can you vntill this day bringe your Dominicane and Franciscane Fryers agreed, vvhither the Virgine kkIud Vives in Annot. in August de … Dei li. 20. 26.Marye vvere conceived in Originall sinne, or no? The Dominicanes mooved by the authority p. 110of Aquinas, repute her spotted, the Franciscanes fighting vnderunder the banner of of Scotus, maintaine her to bee free frō all, which assertion of theirs when the Councel of llSe…. 3….Basils had ratifyed, the Dominicanes except against that, as against a Councell not lawfully called, & the distension continued still so great there about, that Pope Sixtus was faine to interpose his authority in it, by a solemne Decree, commaunding that it should not be disputed of afterward; but let the question yet be moved by any in their presence, and they will be as hote in it, as ever they were. Can there be a mainer article of all your Romish faith, thē the acceptation of the Conc…ble or Cōventicle at Trent? And yet the Popish Divines of mmSee the answ to the …. Reason.Fraunce do not admit it to this day. Did Pighins and Ferus accord with their fellow Romanists, in so high a question as Iustification by faith alone? If you know any thing of them, you cannot bee ignorant that in that point they are Protestants. Doth nnDe liber. … bi…r.Contarenus the Cardinall agree with all his fellowes, touching the doctrine of free will. To conclude this Period, your two great Champions for the Pope, Bishop Fisher and Sir Thomas More, could never accord vponupon that question, whether ther were water in Purgatory or no, both perverting the text, but the one alleaging that of the Psalme, oo…al. …. 11.UUee have gone through fire and water, and thou hast brought vsus out into a cooling place, and therefore there must be water there; & the other citing that of … Zachary, I have loose thy prisoners out of the pitte wherein vvas no water, which places to die for it, they would not have vnderstood …chr 9. …1. Suppli… of So….of any thing but Purgatory, and that literally too. So there was water in it, and there was no water.

T. HILL.

AND lastly it is wonderfull to beholde, howe all decrees of lawfull Councels, and of Popes, doe agree in all pointes of doctrine one with another, although they were made by diverse men, in diverse places, … …es, vponupon diverse occasions, and against Heresies, not … by … but oftentimes contrary one to another. This no double … of God.

p. 111G. ABBOT.

YOu talke here of wonderfull, and me thinketh that it is wonderfull, that your Komish Rabbins will let such fellows as you are, write, and publish bookes of matters in controversie. And it is almost as wonderfull, that any English Papist will lay his soule, vponupon the credite of such fellowes as you are. And it is a peece of a marveile, whither you taking on you to be a Doctour without Divinity, hauehave read nothing about this businesse, or vnderstood nothing when you reade it, or forgot it since, or what you hauehave done with it. Of Councels wee shall heare by themselues: but the agreement of your Popes may make a harmony fit for hell, and the Devill may daunce by it. What meaneth that of qqHist. lib. ….Guicciardine, who lived not far from Rome, The Popes by law doe decree, that … shall bee lawfull for them to recall all promises and covenants, although they were most firmely made by their Predecessours. And may it be thought, that they hauehave any such Decree? Let that of Innocentius the 3. to the Archbishop of Canterbury, determine this Controversie, rrDecretal. l. 1. Tit. 6. c. 20.Although the Canon of the Councell of Laterane set forth by Alexander our predecessour, doe so persecute those who are not lawfully horne, that it doth signifie that the election of such is a …, yet notwithstanding there was not by him taken from vsus the power of dispensing, since that was not the intention of him forbidding it, who could not in this respect breede any preiudice to his successours, who should enioy the like, yea the same power after him, since an equall hath no authority over his equall. What is there in the world, which when one Pope yea by a Councell hath done, may not be reversed by his successour, according to this rule and the reason thereof? VntoUnto this agreeth that of ssIn vita St…han. 6.Platina, who when hee had tolde that Stephen the 6. had taken the body, of formosus his Predecessour, out of his tumbe, and spoiling it of all his Pontificall attire, did cut of two fingers of his right hand, and threw thē into Tiber, inferreth this afterwarde, This was a great stirre, and a matter of naughty example, since almost ever afterwarde this custome hath beene observed, that the following Popes doe either infringe, or altogether abrogate the actes of the former. Yet not long after he hath ssIn Serg. 3.againe, that Sergius the 3. not content with the vsage of Stephen p. 112to Formosus, fel vponupon his body a second time, threw it out of his graue, and as some thing vnworthy of buriall did cast it into Tiber. The examples of this sort are so many, how one of thē hauehave raged and revelled against another, as if their predecessours had beene miscreants or rather hell-hounds, as that they might fill vp a pretty story. Which when it cannot be denied, your answere must be that these are facts, and not matters of doctrine. Where I might call to your minde, the reversing of the Bible by Clement the 8. which is a matter containing in it the substaunce and foundation of all doctrine, but of that before. Now goe wee a little higher.

13 ttVirg. lib 2. Acneid.Fands aliquid non fortè … pervenit ad aures, that Gregory the first condemned the title of Vniversall Bishop in any man, and called it aprophans … appellation? These are also his words, I uuLi. 6 Epist …4.do boldly say that whosoever calleth himselfe the Universall Priest, or desireth … Lib. 3. Epist. 80.to be se called, in his haughtinesse doth fore-runne Antichrist, because by being prowde hee preferreth himselfe before others. And yet every man knoweth that the Popes since the dayes of xxAnastas. in vita Bonifac. 3.Boniface the 3. hauehave vsurped that title, and will by no meanes part with it. As now a daies it hath his consequence and dependance, what greater point of doctrine is there in the whole Christiā religion? You might hauehave heard that there was a long continued controversie, between the Curates, or beneficed men of parishes on the one side, and the Friers on the other, whether it were lawfull or expedient for the Church of God, that the Friers should take cō fessions, in all places where they came, and preach at their pleasure, without licence of the Incumbents, or no. yy10. Fox in Eccl. Histor …. Edw. 3.There were many learned men who stood stifly against the Friers, as Gulielmus de sancto Amore, and Henricus de Gandavo, and many other… yea Armachanus before the Pope and his Cardinals, laid hardly against them. Here one Pope would define it to be good for the Church, that the Friers should be thus suffered; & another Pope woulde decree against them. Their favourers vvere Honorius 3. Gregory 9. Alexander 4. Clemens 4. Boniface 8. Clemens 5. But those who held for the Curates were, Innocentius the 3. Innocentius the 4. Martin the 4. Benedictus the 11. and many Bulles walked about the world, for and against the Friers. There p. 113was a great question, whether after the mariage of a couple, the one of them falling into heresie, it might be lawful for the other, to relinquish his or her yoke-fellow, and to mary… another. zzIn Cap. Quanto, extra, de Divortijs. & cap. 1. Distinct. 3….Innocentius the 3. and Celestinus the 3. gave contrary iudicial sentences in this cause, the one permitting to the innocent party to mary againe, the other quite forbidding it. It is not to be imagined but that in the darke time of Popery, many Kings and Nobles and inferiour persons in Fraunce, had Indulgences from diverse Popes, for their own soules, & for the soules of their friēds & parents; whereby if we will allow the Romane doctrine to be good, it must needs be, that according to the time granted in the Pardō, many a soare soule which had fryed in Purgatory flames, was set free by such favour, as the holy father who had the custody & dispensation of the treasure of the Church, had affoorded them, and then immediately they went to heaven. But when Philip the faire was King of Fraūce, he fell out with the Pope, & having his Clergy & whole Realme vnited to him, he disgraced that Roman Bishop, vilefied him, & exceedingly both abridged, abrogated his power in Fraūce: Pope Boniface the 8. who would cary no coales at any such meane mans hāds, as a King of Fraūce was, cōsistorily revoketh al the aaDu Haillā. Lib. 13.grants, immunities, Privileges, Indulgences, graces, & whatsoever any of his Predecessors had given to Fraunce or any french. On daunger of your life you must not make doubt, but this Boniface did well, and his sentence must stand. What he bindeth in earth, is bounde in heaven, and what he looseth is loose. Hence then ariseth a question, insinuated by bbApolog. pro Herodot. cap. 40.Henry Stephanus, which I feare that all the Seminary of Doway will hardly be able to aunswere. Whether the Popes sentence mustnot stand good: or else whether the soules vvhichwhich had escaped, and were flowen out vntounto heaven, were immediately vponupon the pronoūcing of that horrible sentence, to retire to Purgatory, frō whence they had come out, by a grace which was now frustrated. How poorely & how pitifully would these soules looke, whē they should so on the sodaine be doffed of their felicity, which they thought they had as sure as heaven & Angels could make it? This wold make shrewd speaking, in some other thē being in heaven, least also the soules of some other countries p. 114should meete with such a bargaine. Thus you see, the Bishops of Rome do not ever say the same things, nor define after the same sorte. And although all these by mee named, be not the graund points of their doctrine, yet their will should not have bin wanting even there also, if it had bin for their advantage. They vvho would goe so farre, would have strained a string farther, if they had seene reason for it, But in sooth why should they vary from their mainest grounds? Popery was not so hastily built, that the high Priests of it, should in a wātonnes tumble any of it downe. And it is so concatenated, that destroy one part of it, & you ruinate a great deale. Therefore their wisest waie was to play N… … tangere. And to whose vse should they thwart their principal foundations? To the benefite of Christ? No, their plotting was against him. To the profite of Antichrist, and Sathan his maister? Why, all the world could not devise it in better tearmes then it was. To adde vntounto it, they least feared: for that was to strengthen it. But to reverse or deface any of it, was to open a gappe. And why should they once dispute of it, who had by it what they would? for they had almost eatē vp all Christēdome. Their wilest way therefore vvas to keepe their ovvne counsaile, and know when they were well. If they thēselues should in the most capitall matters have fallen out, other honester persons might have come by their goods: And they were not so silte, but to vnderstand that by knocking togither, some fire might flye out, which easily might set their Babylon on a flame. So it was their good nature, or rather it was the finger of god, which let so much discord be among them, as that good Christiane might see them to bee naught: but vvithall it vvas their vvi…te, or rather the cunning of Sathan, that they should looke to the maine chance so long as they could, least the kingdome of that wicked one being ccMark. 3 24Mark 3:24divided against it selfe, should quickly bee desolated. And wee cannot blame the Devill, after so long experience, and triall vvhat is good for himselfe, if hee endovour vvith all vigilancy to keepe that in quiet, vvhereof hee had gotten possession: And for his servaunts, they being inspired by him were so wise in their generation, as by all meanes to hold that which they had once gained.

p. 11514 YOV see that Vnity is it, which in this third Reason is vrged: but the true substāce of the matter is scant once thought vponupon. For what Christian can say, that For a many of men to agree togither, to dishonour God, is a laudable consent? That then which cheefely is to bee looked vntounto, is that the agreement be in truth: Otherwise it is no better then a coniuration or conspiracy. How did the people hold togither when Ieremy reporteth of them, that ddIer. 7. 18.Jer 7:18the children gather woode, and the fathers kindle the fire, & the women kneade the dough, to make cakes to the Queene of heavē? What a cōfederacy is that against Gods Church, when the faithful are forced to complaine, eePsal. 83. 3.Ps 83:3They have taken crafty counsaile against thy people, & have consulted against thy secrete ones? And againe, They have consulted togither in heart, and have made a league against thee, The tabernacles of Edom and the Ishmaelites, M… ab and the Agarims, Geball and Ammon and Amalek, the Philestines, with the inhabitants of Tyrus. Nay doth not David describe such consent to be against Christ himselfe, ffPsal. 2. 2.Ps 2:2The Kings of the earth hand themselves, and the Princes are assembled togither against the Lord, and against his Christ. And this was fulfilled not onelyonly at his death, but at his birth also, when ggMath. 2. 3.Matt 2:3Herode and Hierusalem vvere troubled about him, and a Councell vvas gathered of Priests and Scribes, combining not to honour him, but to destroy him. Of this forte vvas the confluence of the hhDan. 3. 2.Dan 3:2Nobles, the Princes, the Dukes, the Iudges, the receivers, the Councellours, the Officers, and all the Governours of the Provinces, when they came vp to the dedication of the Image, which Nabuchedonosor the King had sette vp. The multitude vvere there of one minde: but it vvas to commit Idolatrie: and onelyonly the three children of the Ievvish nation, condescended not to their vvickednesse. I might adde more examples, as that of the iiIoseph de bel. Iudaic. lib. 6. 1.seditious at the last seege of Hierusalem, vvho albeit they sometimes turned their svvordes eche against other, yet in this they agreed, that there vvas not a good or honest bodie in the citie, but they ioyned to vexe or murther him. And as these are sufficient witnesses, that in some evill actions men do concurre togither, and dissent not eche from other, so there p. 116have beene sequences, and discents of many ages, wherin whole nations and countries, have with conioyned minds, perpetuated a service to their Gods, the forme whereof was never so much as questioned among them. What correspondēcy of eche to other vvas there among the Ethnickes, vvhen all nations in the most knowne and best habitable world (the Iewes onelyonly excepted) did pray and sacrifice to Iupiter and I…o, to Mars and Apollo, or some other like these? and vvhen so vvise a man as kkIoseph. lib. 2. contr. Apion.Socrates vvas, did but seeme to extenuate the estimation of those Gods, it cost him his life. It is novve a llCael. Aug. Cur. Sarac. Hist lib. 1.thousand yeeres, since the Arabian Saracens, and those vvho have issued from them, have accepted of Mahomet for the singular Prophet and servaunt of the LORD, and have never dared to make question, much lesse division, about their ceremonies and orders, because Mahomet vnderunder paine of death hath inhibited, that his mmVives de verit fidci lib. 1.Religion should bee so much as disputed vponupon. And (the Persians excepted vvho are vnderunder another Prince) this standeth good among so many millions, as bee in Africa, or else-where vnderunder the Turke; neither is there, or hath beene among them of the same profession, the least dis-agreement. VVhence it followeth that if vvee should allowe the Church of Rome, so much as shee demaundeth, that is to say, that all thinges vvere caried in the same streame among them, yet it concludeth no more, then for the Ethnickes and Heathens, or for the Mahometans and Saracens, vnlesse they can demonstrate, that their conioyning hath beene in verity, and in the inviolable vnity of Gods holie spirite, vvhichwhich if they could averre out of the Scripture which is the touch-stone of truth, they needed not to runne to vncertaine argumentes, and vveake foundations of traditions, customes, and otherlike trashe as they continuallie doc. Their agreement hath beene to sette vp that Idoll of Rome, to robbe God of his honour, to infect and poyson the fountaines of living vvaters, to destroy the soules of the people, and for that reason they are rightlie fitted vvith that of nnEzech. 22. 25.Ezek 22:25Ezechiel, A conspiracie of her Prophetes in the middest thereof, like a roaring L… ravening the praye, they have devoured soules, they have taken the riches and precious thinges. A good description of the p. 117combination, and concurrence of the Pastours and shepheards of Rome.

15 On the other side whereas it is obiected, that since the plē tifull breaking out of the Gospell, and the irradiation of so many parts of Europe, with the glorious beames thereof, there hauehave risen vp many contradicting the verity of the same, & there hauehave beene diverse distractions by the whisperings of heretikes; the intelligent Christian Reader may easily perceiue, that this maketh not against vsus, but illustrateth the truth of that which we de fend: First it hath ever so beene with the Church, when God hath given somewhat more free passage of the Gospel then ordinary: the ooMat. 13. 25Matt 13:25good seed is no sooner sowen, but presently the evill man taketh opportunity to sow tares among it, which Parable our Saviour in his divine wisedome did speake to this purpose. Where it is not amisse to consider, that the old veteratorious enemy Sathan, who hath Mille nocendi artes, a thousand devises to do hurt, striveth to bring about his practises by manifold tricks & stratagems. Here his first & chiefest purpose, as best making way to his darke kingdome of hel, is to keep all in ignorance. If that cannot be, but that he is over-mastred, thē his next study is, by the sword of violent persecution, to destroy the professors of Gods truth. If that will not succeede, then he raiseth vp heresies & distractions, among thē who pretend the same verity: Even vpō the cōming of Christ into the world, Sathan had almost al things at his owne will. The Gentiles were not yet come to the light: the Iewes were wel-neere past it: but neither among the one nor the other, was much faith to be foūd. How did this Beelzebub struggle to keep the world in these termes, whē he would hauehave had ppMat. 2. 13.Matt 2:13Christ to be murthered in his cradle, & afterward left him not till he brought him to his crosse? Wel, this would do no good, but for one stēme cut down, their grew vp many young plants, al taking their vital nourishmēt frō the first root. The qqRom. 10. 1…Rom 10:1sound of the Apostles doctrine, went out through all the earth, and their words into the ends of the world. Here then Sathan being put to his shiftes, turned over a nevve leafe. If he could not stoppe the streame, hee thought he woulde poison it, and therefore sendeth in the Nicolaitanes, Ebion and Cerinthus with their complices immediatly, who shoulde mixe p. 118the good graine with cockle and darnell. This was his manner of assaulting at the first. Yet was he not so simple, but to his best power, hee helde his first grounde: Better no Christians at all, then some Christians true and some counterfeit. A second time therfore he falleth on the well head, with earnest desire either to dry it or to damme it vp. By Decius and Ualerian and the rest of the bloudy Emperours, he exciteth ten most terrible persecutions, by the which vntil wel neere 300. yeeres after Christ, he thought to have r…zed out from vnderunder the heaven, the name of the embracers of the Gospell. And in the intervalla or interstitia of these persecutions, hee did not forget his feates of Heresie, as may bee seene by the Novatians. But after the time by his own counsaile appointed, God was pleased to stey the fury & rage of tyrants, sending that his blessed servant Constantine, and the other Emperours, who openly professed for the Christiā faith. And now the floud-gats of the Gospel being so wide set open through a great part of the world, the Devill had his hands & his head too ful to do some-thing which might serve for his purpose. Then grewe immediately such a rabble of Heresies, as is almost incredibles which as it appeareth by that, which formerly hath bin cited out of Epiphani… and Austen, so it is more confirmed by the words of Hierome saying thus, qqLib. 2. contr… …ovinianum.It is almost foure hundred yeeres agone, that the preaching of Christ doth shine in the world, since which time …erable Heresies have re…e his coate. And yet as I noted before, well neere three hundred yeeres were passed over, in that continued time of persecution. Now amidst these Heresies, vvhat vvarres and dissentions vvere among the Christians, it is not easie to reporte. If the inferiour ssSo…om. 6. 25.Clergy, among themselues sell to disagree about any thing, it grewe to that stomake, that it ended in some Heresie. And the Bishops when some ssSocrat. 2. 19.schisme was once amongst thē, they kept their bucharist apart, & would not come to the communion e…he with other. VVill you in this case heare the testimony of a heathen man, who no doubt recounteth the story with great gladnes, as pleasing him well, & in the endvseth almost the same wordes as the Romanistes doe of some other, VV… ttAm. Marcill…. l. 22. 3.the Christians did disagree among themselves, … su…y intending to deale vvith them, did call the Prelates and the people int… p. 119his Palace, where he permitted to every one the vse of his Religion, s… meaning to increase betweene them so great discordes, a… that they might not be alaid…; knowing that beastes are not more deadly minded tovvards beastes, then Christians are to Christians. You may learne heere, frō what schoole-master, the uuCommentar. Relig & Reip. in Gall. Lib 3.Cardinall of Lorraine did take his lesson, when at the conference of Poissy, to thwart M^r Beza and Peter Martyr, and other of that company, he sent for some Lutheranes out of Germany, who might in the matter of Sacrament, have turned their disputations against those of the Religion, when as both of them should rather have ioyned against the common enemy. And in the auncient times before spoken of, if we will thinke of private quarrels, what uuHier Apolog contr. Ruffin. Ruffin in Invectiv.rancour and bitternes was there betweene Hierome & Ruffi…s as also what stomakefulnesse betweene xxSozom. lib. 8. 15.Chrysostome & Epiphani…, when they parted and never saw eche other againe. Yet to say that among any, or all of these Christians, there was no verity or solidity of faith or Religion, had bin an absurde conclusion, and such a one as our Romanists themselves would quickly deny. There were many who walked in by-pathes, and yet there vvere vvho kepte the right way also. GOD had his Saintes, and Sathan his schismatickes.

16 The reason why such heresies did spring vp in the church, was partly to be derived from Gods determinate counsaile, and partly from the malice of our olde deadly enimy. They had both their purposes in it, but the one holy and good, & the other like himselfe full of improbity and impiety. yy1 Cor 11. 19.1 Cor 11:19There must bee Heresies among you saith Saint Paule, that they which are approved among you might be knowne. And zzContr. hoeres. c. 15.Vincentius Lirinensis telleth vsus, that therefore there be herisies, that the Lord our God may try vsus, whether we love him with all our hearte, and all our soule or no. Whether by the authoritie or vvitte of any man, vvee vvill be drawne from the integritie and simplicitie of faith, vvhichwhich is proposed vntounto vsus in CHRIST Iesus. And to this purpose speaketh Saint Augustine: aaEpistol 50.Heresies and scandals are foretolde shall bee, that among our enimies vvee may bee instructed, and so both our faith and our love may be the better proved. And else-where he teacheth that a good vse may be made of Heretikes. bbDe vera Religion. cap. 8.Many, that they may see the day of p. 120God, ccDeivel diei.and reioyc…, are by heretikes raysed out of their sleeps, VV… therefore may vse even Heretikes, not that vvee shoulde approve their errours, but that maintaining the Catholike discipline against their trecheries, vvee may bee the more vvatchfull and vv…, although vvee cannot reduce them vntounto salvation. For these and the like instructions of his people, God saffereth Heresies, rentes and schismes to bee: but Sathans proiect is, by infection to destroy the soules of men, and therefore hee is busie in stirring vp of them; vvhichwhich vvas vvell knovve to Cyprian vvhen he said, ddDe simplicit. praelator.The Devill did invent Heresies and schismes, vvhereby hee might subver… the faith, might corrupt veriti…, might teare in peeces vnitie. This is the drifte of our auncient adversarie beeing put to his shiftes. Saint Austen speaketh yet plainer, eeDe vtilitate jejunij.The Devill doth vnderstand that our life is charitie, and our death is dissension, hee sent strifes therefore among Christians, because hee coulde not frame vntounto the Christians diverse Gods, hee multiplied sectes, hee sovved errours, hee erected Heresies, but vvhatsoever hee did, hee made of the Lordes chaffe. And this did hee, immediately after that Constantines raigning had brought peace to the Churches', that good Emperour greeving much, to see Arri… and other, so soone by the eares with the Orthodoxe. But Sathan vvas vnvvilling to loose any time, and therefore even at the first bestirred him. Nowe in the darke time of Popery God having beene pleased to determine before, that an ff2. Thes. 2. 32 Thess 2:3Apostasie there should bee, and the woman should bee with-drawne into the ggApoc. 12. 6Rev 12:6wildernesse, and Antichristes kingdome should bee erected, flourishe and dominere, vvhat reason had Sathan, to set men to contende about the foundations of his building? Hee rather cryed, Hab… quod …olo. I have vvhat I desire. As it is the the efes safety, that all in the house should sleepe, vvhen hee commeth to rifle and robbe, so it was Sathans best contentmēt, that the world should be at rest. By his wil how many ages & secula should have passed over, ere the old heathens should have awaked out of sleepe… And how many did there passe over the hhPetr. Martyr. Decad. 1. ….Americanes, & he never made any question, or cast in any bone among them, but let them go on in worshipping their Zemes, those horrible spirits of darkenes? I would but know of any man, what Sathan should have gained, to set p. 121them at variance about their Religion? If ignorance would kill soules, the daies abounded in ignorance; if superstition would destroy, they had it in great plenty; if idolatrie would doe him any pleasure, they wanted none of that; if security would further him, they had it and made much of it. What could he wish more, when the greatest sort of worldlings daunced after his pipe, and were as glad to come in, as he to open his dores? Hee had doated as I thinke, if he could not have kept his owne counsaile. But in that fault you shall not take him. The care therefore of him and his ministers was, to keepe all vpright, or at least to preserve the ground-worke of his building, and if any of his children at their play did fall out, he closed it vp againe aswell as he could, & had his officers for that purpose. If any other did but baye, or open, against this his setled common-wealth, he vvas not amicus Curiae, a friende to the Courte: either bring him to conformitie or Crucifige. So you may behoulde the reason, why in the deepe time of ignoraunce, there was such a confederacy or conspiracy rather, to have all vnderunder silence. It was like the llIustin. l. 5.Sacra El…sina, where nothing might bee reveiled, nothing might bee disturbed.

17 But when God was once purposed to open the gate of his mercy, and the dore of his truth, the case was altered with the worlds olde maister. As Basile therefore saith of vertue and vice, so Sathan did with verity and errour. kkDe vera virginitate.Where a dore is of vertue saith he, there on either side is set a dore of vice, the entraunces of which are very like to the other of vertue. By which likenesse it commeth to passe, that many a one comming to enter at the right passage, mistaketh the dore, & by a wrong opinion getteth him into the house of vice. Thus did the Devill deale by truth. OnelyOnly there is this difference, that for one dore of verity, hee made very many of errour and heresie, and by the mist which he …steth before mens eyes, they runne in at the wronge gate in steed of the right. But this is an evidēt Demonstration, that the right dore is now open, that he laboureth so to d…sle it, more thē formerly he hath done. For why else would he trouble himselfe, by raysing so many opinions? And this is an excellent argumēt, which was made sometimes by Chrysostome, & serveth fit for our p. 122purpose, in these daies. llHom. 33. in Acta.This is an argument that it is a notable doctrine, if many dee couunterseit it, and imitate it a for they would not counterseit it, vnlesse it were good. And that I will now make manifest vntounto you. The ointments which are fragrant, hauehave many who will adulterate them: but no man by counterfeiting, will …bour to expresse him who doth wickedly, but that person who is eminent for his singular life. And this did that holy father vtter, even in the very matter which I hauehave now in hand, making answere touching the diversity of opinions, and the manifold heresies, which in his time were among the Christians. He sheweth it to be an argument of excellencie, and not of badnesse, that many would shrowde their conceites, vnderunder the name of true religion. I would that our English Papists would weigh this answere of Saint Chrysostomes well, and then they shall finde, that if there hauehave beene many vp-startes since the time of Luther & Calvine, who vnderunder colour of their patronage would broach somewhat, whē in very deede they dissent frō them, & are cōdemned by them; this doth magnify the verity of those holy mens doctrine, and sheweth the Divels policie, to set many to resemble them, that so hee may disgrace the truth, by a multitude of various & independent lyes. What mony coiner was ever so foolish, as to coūterfeit a coūterfeit coine, or that which of it selfe is base? but the purest gold, and most fine mony is that, which lewd persons offer and attempt to resemble. Thus the weakest Reader may beholde the vanity of the Doctours thirde Reason, and see that their Vnity is against God, & ours is in God and for Christ: and if there should be difference in actions amongst vsus, it is no other thing then was betweene mmAct. 15. 39.Acts 15:39Paule and Barnabas: and if in opinions of great causes, (the foundation being surely held) it is no more then was betweene nnGal. 2. 11.Gal 2:11Peter and Paule, and Saint ooAugust. Epist. 19.Hierome and Saint Augustine debating that fact of theirs, and yet the one couple of those vvere Apostles, and the other were great lampes in the Church, even as both the Lutherans and Calvinists as you call them, are in one article dissenting, but both holding Christ crucified, and the mā ner of Iustification aright, and al other circumstances belonging therevnto.

18 I had thought here to hauehave ended this Chapter: but I feare p. 123least our Seminarians at Rome, & my adversaaty himselfe should thinke that in so doing, I did not them their right. It is saide before, that in the Papacy there is a generall vniformity in the peace of mens minds, and to be breefe they hauehave all one heart & one soule. Would a man thinke this, who readeth M. Parsons his Apologie of the Ecclesiasticall Hierarchy, and subordination in England… For to omit all matters before intimated, of the schisme here between the Arch-Priest & Seculars, as also of all ppThe estate of Eng…ish fugit. u…s.contentions betweene our English fugitiues in Italy. Fraunce and the low Countries during her late Maiesties daies, what horrible tumults hauehave there lately bin, in the English Colledge alone at Rome? qqApol. c. 5.There did the students bind thēselues by othe, not to liue any more vnderunder the government of the Iesuits. Yea so vehement was the sedition once, that like mad men they did runne out toward the Popes pallace; but from his Holinesse that now is, they were commaunded to retire to their lodgings. They made many seditious sermons against their governours, in the Colledge. In the yeare 1596 when Car. dinall Sega prefixed his letters, signifying his intent, by a Visitation to looke into them, they disgracefully tore his letters. Among these gallants perhaps was our M. Hill, but then not Doctour, but knowne by the name of Thomas Hill Priest, although afterward he, if it were he, cryed Creake for it, and togither with fiue other Priests, was induced to write to Aqua viva the Generall of the Iesuits, a solemne letter of thankes, because in the yeare 1507. he left father Parsons, to take vp controversies in the Colledge at Rome; And the same rrMay 15. 1597.commendations of father Persons appeasing all, did Thomas Hill write to D. K…on Vice-president of the Colledge at Doway. But yet the Iesuites are not too forward to attribute much credite vntounto this Thomas; for it is but a poore testimony, which the Rectour there giveth him; we doe not heart but Hill hath behaved himselfe wel since. But he affirmeth that before time hee was vehement against the fathers, vponupon errour and evill informed zeale as may be supposed. I make some doubt whether that Hill mentioned in the Apologie be my Doctor, or no; because (as I am informed) there were two in the Seminary called by the name of Thomas Hill. One of this two desiring to be fine, before that he was handsome, would p. 124needes in imitation of the Italian Friers, teach his Auditours in his Sermons, how they should fly in a coach to heaven, whereof this coach must bee made, what ones the horses should be that must draw it, wherewithall they must be fed, & such other stuffe, till that his hearers did laugh at his eloquence, and deride his discretion. This later do I suppose to be the Authour of this volume. In all this forenamed controversie I do not much finde any vniformity in the peace of mens mindes, or one heart and one soule. This preaching one against another did shew the contrary thervnto. But yet that other preaching long since, did shew it mere, when (as the Waldenses did cōplaine) the followers of the Pope in ssConfes. Wald. In fascic. rer. expetenda.their sermons did call one another schismatikes, heretikes, sacrilegious, false Prophets, ravening wolues, the beast and whore in the Apocalypse. This of all likelyhood did shew diversity and distraction in doctrine. And shall we not imagine that so it was, when thirteene ssBenno Card. de vita Greg. 7.Cardinals seeing the Apostasie of Hildebrand, or Pope Gregory the seventh, did depart frō his Communion, that is, would not be partakers of the Eucharist, where he was to communicat. If I should vrge any more examples, it should be of the Iesuites, who are charged, in ordinary practise to dissent from the rest of the Popish Church in Fraunce, in more then fifty matters. Some of them may wel be said to be points doctrinal, as these, ttIesuit Cat. Lib. 2. 1.that the Pope is not vnderunder any Generall or Oecumenicall Councell; that the Pope is Prince of all kingdomes as well in matters temporall as spirituall; that the kings of Fra…ce may bee excommunicated by the Popes: that the Pope according to the occasions of matters, may transferre not only kingdomes, but the Empire …: that Clergy men may not bee iudged by a secular Iudge, although they keepe not civill lawes: that the rebellion of a Cleargy man against his Prince is not high treason, because he is not subiect to the Prince: that a king may be deposed by the State for tyranny; and if he doe not his duety, when there is iust cause, another may be chosen by the greater part of the people; yea th…gh they hauehave sw…e perpetuall obedience to him: that Iesuits admit of the Councell of Trente. These with their circumstāces are high points of doctrine, maintained and defended by the Iesuits, but oppugned by the Papists of Fraunce, and other nations which are not Iesuited, so that now they may in these respects, hauehave safely more bels then one ring to their Sermons, contrary to that which Staphilus woulde hauehave taught Smideline, when he said thus, uuApolog. Fridir. Staphyl.S…deline should learne of the parish Clerke, why when he ringeth to Sermon, he ringeth but one …ell, but to E…song or Service he ringeth many at once, both great and …ll. The ringing … bell to Sermon repres…th the Unity of the Catholike faith taught at Sermons, which ought to be but on… and vniforme in all men. …t the …angling of many diverse bels to co… praier, signifieth the diversity of men, some praying fervently, some coldly, some serving God one way, some another. The difference of the Iesuits frō other Papists, will safely permit them to ring to their Sermons, more … then one. And so I come now to the next Chapter.