Doctor Hills Reasons for Upholding of Papistry Unmasked — Archbishop George Abbot

Doctor Hills Reasons for Upholding of Papistry Unmasked · Archbishop George Abbot

THE NINTH REASON. Councels.

T. HILL.

THE Church of God hath ever beene accustomed, when any heresie did spring vp therein to gather a Councell of Bishops, Prelates, and of other learned men, in which the truth was approved, & the heresie condemned. And whosoever were cōdemned by such Councels, cō firmed by the See Apostolike, were ever deemed, & in very deed were heretikes, and for such at length were taken of all men, and in the end vanished away. So were the Arrians condemned in the Nicene Councell, the Macedonians in the Councell of Constantinople, the Nestorians in the Ephesine, the Eutychians in the Chalcedonian, & others in other Councels. All which heretikes although they flourished for a time, and drew manie people yea Emperours, Kings, States and Countreies after thē, yet in time they came to nothing, and the Councels which condemned them were vniversally embraced.

G. ABBOT.

THere are two things in the two first Periodes of this your Chapter, which although not simplye in themselues, yet proceeding …om you do deserue admiration. For you who were wont to make such large propositiōs as no Papist durst avouch, filling your mouth & pen with nothing els but All, are growne in this Reason vnreasonably modest, & downe below a great many of your fellowes, when first you allow other learned … besides Bishops & Prelates to be of your Councels: and secondly you appoint these generall Assemblies not to be called by your Pope, but it is inough that they bee confirmed by the See Apostolike. But the later of these we ascribe to your good Maister Bristowes such like extenuation, vvho hath your very wordes confirmed by the See Apostolike, and from one of whose aBrist. Moti…. 13…Motiues abbreviated, you borrow the most of this your present Reason; and the former we impute either vntounto your ignoraunce, who know not what your fellowes hold in this pointe, or to the ticklenes of the matter it selfe, wherin nōe of you with the safety of Popery, can define ought, but it lyeth subiect to some exceptiō. Some of your mē wil hauehave none to hauehave voice in Coū cels but Bishops, & so bIn enumeratione Cociliorū:Possevinus saith A Coūcelis nothing else but a lawfull Congregation of Bishops. And it is scant to be found in any of those whom you cite for Synodes, that any are named but Bishops, as the Nicene cIn praesation. Concili Nicen…Councel consisted of three hundred & eighteene Bishops, the dIn fine Concil. Tridentin:Tridentine (if we wil take their owne account) of two hundred and seventy Bishops; vnlesse perhaps the Legates and Oratours of some Princes may bee numbred to be in the Councell, who yet hauehave no voices to ratifie doctrine, excepte they bee Bishoppes. And yet this shoulde seeme secretly to go somewhat hard even in Campians mind, who vseth first a generall word, eRation: 4.the Senatours of the vvorld, but aftervvard when he hath saide the choice of Bishops he addeth the pi…he of Divines. Yea fChronil: 4.Genebrard himselfe magnifying the Councel of Laterane aboue all that ever were for number, saith that it had in it for cheefe Bishoppe Innocentius the Pope, then tvvo Patriarkes, him of Constantinople, and the other of Hierusalem, Arch-bishops Greeke and Latin seventy, Bishops 400. Abbots twelve, Priours of Covents eight hundred, which in all were Fathers 1285. Now whether …ese Priours had voices he doth not expressely tell, or whether they were there but to assist, dispute, search, informe or to ease the Prelates. And yet the manner of his particular enumeration doth seeme to give them consent there: vvhichwhich notvvithstanding▪ cannot bee gathered concerning the gIn fi…e Con…il. …ridentin.Councell of Tren…, vvhere albeit the Divines and Canonists which were there of any reckoning be remembred, yet the Bishops as having voice alone are at last nūbred by themselues. In the first Nicene Councel it seemeth by hSoz▪ l: 1. 19Sozomen that Cō stantine the Emperoure had a suffrage. But it may be doubted whither Athanasius had any or none, being then no Bishop, yet a right worthy man, & on whom the burthen of disputing with the Arrians there, didly as much as vponupon any one man whatsoever. It were good therefore that it were agreed vponupon betweene you Papists, who be the proper and peculiar persons who hauehave consent of iudgment and deciding in Councels, before that you build too much vponupon such Convocations. iIn contro.Costerus saw that there was no small scruple in this and other circumstances belō ging to Councels, & therefore he would not meddle at all with this Argument. 2. Bellarmines opinion is that ordinarily only Bishops 1. Bellar. de …: c 15hauehave a right of deciding & determining voices; extraordinarily & by priviledge or custome, Cardinals, Abbots, & Generals of orders, albeit they be not Bishops may also hauehave voices (but this saith he was only in the Councels of Florence, Lateran and Trent) other Priests or Cleargy men may helpe by disputing to finde out trueth, but hauehave no suffrage, And therefore hee condemneth the Councell of Basill, where such were admitted to a deciding voice. Princes are called to defende the Councell, and to take notice what is decreed that they aftervvarde may castigate such as stande against it. Other lay men may be present to performe some necessarie services to such Assemblies. Now you are as it seemeth, for the extraordinary.

2 For the second point, if the supremacy of your Pope must stande vpright, it vvill prooue to be his alone to call and assemble Councels. For giuegive it to Princes, and then they shall bee supreme governors in causes Ecclesiasticall, vvhichwhich you will not admit, albeit it be, an evident truth: & permit it to the Cardinals, then you set the mēbers aboue the head, the coch before the horses. Your Popes in these later ages hauehave take on thē to cōvocate al Synods, & wil not indure that any man should meddle vvith that matter, which they desire to keepe as charily as the apple of their eie. kSleid. l. …Against Pope Iulius the 2. there were 9. Cardinals who combined themselues, & going to M…laine decreed that a Coū cell should be held at Pisa to reforme▪ Iulius: but the Pope protested against it, and said that it belonged to him alone to call such assemblies, and there vponupon as lLib: 9:Guicciardine saith, the Divines and Canonists were in iudgement divided. And yet vvee know that all the olde Councels were congregated only by the order and commandement of the Emperors: So was the first Nicene Councell gathered by Constantine the G…eat, as mDe vita Cōst…l. …3: 61Eulebius who lived in his age witnesseth, and after him nHist: Ecc…l 1: 9: Soc: 16.Theodoret. The Synode at Constantinople is expresly oSocr. 5: 8…said to be called by Theodosius. And the great Councel as Chalcedon was congregated by the commandement of Valentinian and Martian the …mperors, as appeareth in the preface to the same. Leo the Pope was one who vponupon an imagination that he sate in a seat Apostolicall tooke somewhat more stomake to him then any of his predecessours, and also more then any of his successours til after the time of Gregory the Great; yet there is an pEpisto: ad Theodos.Epistle of his extant, which he wrote to Theodosius, wherein he maketh request that his Highnesse would giuegive him leaue to assemble a Synode in Italy. This is so plaine in Histories, that the French Chronicler Du qLib. 5:Haillan, in the life of Ludovicus Pius vseth this speech, By so many examples cited by me it doth appeare, that Charles the Greate, and Ludovicus Pius did gather Councels, & that so they …ight do without the authority and permission of Popes, and that they were the supreme iudges of Ecclesiasticall matters in their kingdomes, and that they coulde as well dispose and order things spirituall as tēporall. I would our English Papists would marke this, who make such scruple of the oth of Supremacy. Nay Chatles the 5. a late Emperour, and one who much more then mough was devoted to the Romane Bishops, had learned so farre to walke in the waies of his noble Progenitours and Predecessours, that without the Popes privity or consent he gathered assemblies in matters of religiō: which as rIn Actis Lu thers. Ann: 1544Cochleus reporteth, Pope Paul…s the 3. tooke ill, and challendged him for it that in his Rescripts, making mention of celebrating a meeting about businesses in religion, …e saith nothing of the Pope. The Romane Bishop would hauehave made the world beleeue, that therein was some wrong done vntounto him; but Charles knew well inough what he himselfe had to do. Thus it is not yet agreed among our Romanists whose is the primary authority to commaunde, convent and congregate Councels, and therefore you in your very extraordinary wisedome and modesty declining this doubt, tell vsus onelyonly that these Councels must be confirmed by the See Apostolike. He would hauehave a Negatiue voice to repell them when they hauehave decreed & done what they meant to do. Now these two observations being made, we trace your other steps.

3 Your words are liable to many exceptions. For first when heresies sprung vp, there were not evermore Councels gathered as is evident by that time which was before the Nicene Councel held vnderunder Constantine; and yet betweene the daies of the Apostles and that Emperour, there were many heresies stirring as may be seene by sIn haeres.Epiphanius and S. sDe heresib. ad Quodvult Deum.Austen. But such fl…wes as these be, with you are nothing. Secondly it would be expressed what you meane by the Church of God: for sometimes heretiks did make such Convocations, and representing then the visible Church did beare much away. Such were the Councels at tTheo: 217:Sardi…, at uS…c: 1. 21…Tyrus, at uLib: 2. 7:Antioch, at x…: ca… 25:Sirmium, at yLib: 4: 11.Ariminum, I mean those meetings which were made by & for the Arrians, Thirdly in all such assemblies trueth was not approved and heresie condemned; for in these which I hauehave named, it was otherwise; and as the zMat. 26: 3▪Councell of Annas and Caiphas with the other Priestes was not for Christ but against Christ, so the meeting of the Arrians in those places was not to vpholde trueth, but to destroy it. You should then hauehave said that sometimes such Councels were assembled, where …f the Spirite of God did illustrate them with truth, all matters were well, and especially those of mainest moment, but if they were directed by faction or humane courses, it fell out otherwise. That Synode in the Actes, was such an holy Act: 15: 6:meeting, where about some differences in religion and doctrine, the Apostles came togither, and th… …rit of God was President among them. But in the fourth place, that it should be of the essence of a lawful Councel that it must be ratified by the Romish Bishop, is a iest iBellar. de conc…l …: 12sometimes peradventure mencioned and arrogantly challenged by some of that See, but never by other in any antiquity assented vntounto. bLib: 2: 5:Socrates indeed speaketh of a Canon of the Church, that without the sentence, or advise of the Bishop of Rome, decrees for the Church should not be established. But this is spoken by him, as taking it vp only from some claime of Iulius the stirring Pope then living, and not from anie authenticall recorde. For where was that ever concluded? The Nicene Councell indeede taking order that there might be Patriarkes in severall places of the world, who might compose and direct Ecclesiasticall matters in their Provinces, had for the respect which was then borne to Rome, as being the Imperial city, suffered the Bishop thereof to take the first cSocr. 5. 8.place in all generall Convocations, as it gaue the seconde to the Patriarke of Constantinople, and afterward to the other Patriarks in their order. Further prerogatiue we finde none given, howsoever the Bishops of Rome aspiring to an Ecclesiasticall Monarchy did in processe of time stand on it, that they had more. In a dConcil. carthaginens, 3.Councell at Carthage it was decreed that the Bishop of the first See should not be called the Prince of Priests, or the highest Priest or any such thing, but only the Bishop of the first See. And ePart: 1: Distinct. 99: 3:Gratian citeth the very same words, out of a Councell of Afrike, which intendeth that of Carthage, but he addeth in the end of the Decree, But let not even the Bishop of Rome hee called Universall. And f…lbid. 4:farther he citeth a Decree of Pelagius the Pope Let none of the Patriarkes ever vse the word of Vniversallity, because if our Patriarke be called V…iversall, the name of Patriarkes to derogated from other… but f…r be this from faithfull men, that any one should take that to himselfe, whence in any the smallest respect he may seeme to d…sh the honour of his brethrē. And least any man should say, that the Pope meant this of other Patriarkes and not of himselfe, it followeth in the same glbid, 5.Gratiā, that Pope Gregory was angry with Eulogius, that he had called him Vniversall Pope. I confesse that in progresse of time, the Bishops of Rome vnderunder a colour of a Canon in the Nicene Councell did claime that appe… should be made to them, but when the Fathers of Afrike assem…ed at hCon. Carthaginen. 6Carthage disclaimed it, and would by no meanes take knowledge of any such Canon, they sent to Nicea to see the Originall of the Nicene Councell, and finding no such matter there, they put the Pope to much shame in as much as it was but a forged Canon, vponupon which hee had insisted. But to returne to Iulius in whose behalfe the former chalenge was made, when the Easterne Bishops had received imperious letters from him, they did no lesse then scorne it in him, & would not indure any such vsurpation of his, as both iLib: at …Socrates and kLib: 3: 7.Sozomen do relate. Yea we finde in Athanasius himselfe, who had fled to lulius, & whō it cōcerned that lulius shuld hauehave nothing of his true authority diminished, because he stuck close to Athanasius in his toubles, that the lAthana. in Apolog. 2.Easterne Bishops assēbled in the Coūcel at Sardis, do cal Iulius their beloved fellow servant & nothing more. Which was the phrase not only of thē being a cō pany of Catholiks & Orthodox Bishops, but mEpistol, 3:Cypriā before that did vse to cal Cornelius the Rom. Bishop his brother & no more.

4 Yet if it should be graūted that the Patriarkes in the name & behalfe of their Provinces should hauehave a voice of necessary cō sent, what is that more to the Romish Bishops then to the other Patriarchical Sees? And besids this, the place of Socrates tēdeth to nothing but political ordinances, ceremonies & customes for governmēt of the church, which were not to be obtruded on all without cōsent of some chief in every Province, & especially that of Rome, the most eminēt in the empire. And of that nature was the cause of Athanasius there, who was questioned as depriueable of his Bishoptik, because he had exercised his fūctiō & iurisdictiō, being not restored again after his suspensiō by a Synod of some Bish. But if that a general Coūcel should with good groūds out of the word of God cōdēne heresie, and the Pope would not ioine with thē, whether this cōdemnatiō were lawful or no, is rather our questiō. Where although your Popes wil take on thē to hauehave a Negatiue voice against the Coūcel, & your Canonists & Pope-flaterers so dispute it, yet the Coūcel of Cōstāce is flat to y^e cōtrary: for there as nIn Ioh. 24.Platina saith, the Pope is subiected to y^e Coū cel, yea & deprived by it also. And the oconc… cō stant. Sess. 5Coūcel it selfe saith that a general Coūcell hath power immediatly frō Christ, to which everie one of what state or dignity so ever he be, yea if it be Papal, is boūd to obey in those things which pertain to faith, & to the rooting out of schisme, & the reformatiō of the Church in the head & in the mēbers. Thus the Coū cell speaketh flatly, and the Popes speake directly to the contrary, and learned Papistes themselues are shrewdly in suspence what to say or beleeue herein. pReplique a … …e de … verit. cap. 5.One of them, a French man, saying more in the beginning then we accept, confesseth of late farther in this manner. Never did Christian man say or doubt whither the Pope were aboue other Bishops, but the question is whither hee bee aboue a Councell, and the whole Catholike Church … body gathered, This is … vndecided, and … rather a matter of policie, or governement then of the substaunc… of faith. Nevertheles it were good that this knot were opened before that you talke to much of your Coū cels, and your Popes ratifying of thē. It were well that your Papists knew what to beleeue. Now to proceed. Such as the first & ancient Councel… condēned for Heretiks, were rightly so accoū ted; for they were iustly censured out of the Scriptures to holde vntruths. But such as your later Conventicles of Lateran, Trent & such like, condēned, were the good servants of God, & were not, nether are iustly to be reputed heretiks, but by the Arch…heretiks of the world, Antichrists men, whose censure being drawn frō their own braine, & the Spirit of Sathan, & not frō the holy Ghost, is to be esteemed for nothing. The condēnatiō of the Arrians, Macedonians, Nestorians, & Eutychians we allow of, because they taught doctrin against Christ & the word of God, & we are glad of their ruine. And wee finde that after our Saviours speech, qMat 15. 13.Every plant which …y heavenly father hath not planted shal be rooted vp, here…ks commonly are soone blowne away, although Kings, States & Countries for the time do admit thē: as the Arrian infection was widely entertained. Yet we cannot certainely conclude that al heresies do in time come to nothing, vnlesse we will vnderstand that time to be the end of time, even the finall dissolution of all things. The schisme of the r…. King: 17 34. …oh: 4: 20.Samaritanes dissenting frō the Iews lasted long. Your Papacy hath had a great cō tinuance, being the confluence of a whole sinke of heretical doctrine: You hauehave long since condemned the Greeke & Russian Church, and yet they hold out. The Iconomachi & Image breakers were condēned in the second Nicene Councel, and yet the defenders of their faith in that point do stil remain. Had not the Arrians sentence against them long agone, in the first Synode at Nice & yet there be said to be store of thē in sBellar. lib. 1. & 2 de Christo.Transylvania. And for the Pelagians, I do not remember that any Councell directly proceeded against thē: yet they deserved to be so met with: notwithstanding. Papists do much ioine with them in the matter of free will. …It is possible then, that as the Divell indureth so may some of his Disciples, successiuely, & the sMat. 13 …tares which the envious man hath sowne, may be let alone to the harvest, that is to say, heretiks to the last day. But let them stand or fall, slowly or quickly, such as obstinatly maintaine false doctrine, are heretik… & Councels which by warrant of the Scripture do condēne thē, are to be accepted & well esteemed by all, so that they mingle not drosse with their gold, no water with their wine.

T. HILL.

ANd no doubt the late fa… Councell of Trent, which by the same authority and order, hath c…ned the Protestantes & other sectaries for heretiks, will in time b… every where received, & these new felwes by it …ized will v…terly v…sh away. For indeede …f a man consider the matter throughly, he shall plainely perceiue that th…se sectes hauehave no likelyhood of cōti…, by reason they hauehave no m…s to gather a Councell, and much lesse to … matters therein if … were gathered, being without an head as they …, and every one …leaving …ly to his own priv… opi…, & therefore …an …er all … togither, or if by any power they were compelled ther…, they hauehave … agree in one, for that they will not yeeld … any iudgement, but what is framed of their … br…, and therefore it …st needs … amongst them, as we see it to be Quot homines, tot sente…tiae, So many men, so many opinions.

G. ABBOT.

5 THe famousnes of your Conventicle at Trent i… famously to be laughed at. It was eighteene yeare in acting, from 1545. to the yeare 1563. nowe a peec… and then a patch, interrupted & to it againe. Three Popes one after another, that is Paulus the 3. Iulius the 3. and Pius the 4. did beat all their wits and vsed their best imploiments to make somewhat of it, & yet most base and beggerly it prooved. The most of the nations of Christendome had nothing to do with it, neither did they send thither. The Protestants vniversally refused, and some gaue out the reason of it in tSleid, l. 16.printed tracts. First because it was assembled by the Pope, whose authority they should hauehave ratified, if they had come at his call. Secondly the Legats of the Pope were Presidents there; therfore nothing was to be concluded or disputed against their maister. Thirdly no man could come there but he must condescend to many things against his conscience, there being first and principally required obedience to the Papacy, & presence at many Idolatrous Acts. Fourthly there was no freedome …o speake truth, but that any man might hauehave bin served as uCochl in Hist Hussit. l: 2:Iohn Hus was at the Councell of Constance, who had a safe conduct frō Sigismund then king of the Romanes, & afterward Emperor and yet by a tricke, that faith given to heretiks is not to bee kept, or as our M. uRation. 4:Capian said, Caesar sealed it, but the Christiā world vnsealed it, being greater thē Caesar the good man there lost his life. Fiftly their Princes for reasons of state did not think fit to imploy thē thither. Nay Popish Realms did not ioin with that Coūcel, as Q. Mary in all her time sent not thither, which may appeare by this, that in the Cataloge of Bishops ther is named but only one of England, & that was Th. Goldwel Bishop of S. Asaph, who departed the Realm in Q. Elizabeths time, & was at Trēt at a snatch of that assembly, cōming before the final breaking vp of all: but he was thē only a titulary Bish. without any Bishoprik. Of which sort there were also divers other, to help make vp a simple shew. As Pope xGentill. in exam Cō cil. …riden Sel. 1. Sle… dan. lib. 17:Paulus the 3. made that Olaus which is called Magnus Archb of Vpsala (a place said to be in Gothia) & one Robertus Venātius Archbishop of Armath in Ireland. He bestowed those titles on those two poore men while they lived at Rome, & had nothing in the world to doe with the places of their pretended Bishopriks, but were without Church, or Clergy, or Diocesse, or any revenue at all. He might as well hauehave created thē Bishops of Antioch and Alexandria, if he had pleased. These two poore hungrye soules the Pope for a vvhile mainetained barely at Rome: at last as men comming out of far parts of the world he sent thē to Trent, allowing Olaus 15. crownes a month, which as the Authour saieth vvas but a simple pittaunce for an Archbishop, and especially for him who was called Magnus, but to Venantius that pretended Armachanus he allowed lesse. Was not this thinke you to goe a begging for Bishops, to furnish vp this high and famous Councell, when such simple shiftes vvere made? He who put out the Councel, of likelyhood was sore ashamed of it, and therefore in his commemoration of the Bishoppes there assembled, he mencioneth no such men, but leaveth them both out as counterfeits.

6 I returne to speake of Popish Princes. Among all of that part in Germany, much of the Country yet to this day standing Romishly affected, there came Bishops but yCat. prael: in fine Cōctwo, if we shoulde afford thē their own reckoning. But almost no place was neerer to Trent then France was. And yet zL. Antiguizart.Francis the Great, who lived at the first meeting of that cōciliable, had his Orator or Embassador there, that was the Abbot of Bellozan, who in the name of his master protested, that neither the King nor any of his Realm could be bound by the decrees of that Coūcel. The Author writing this addeth farther, that the king knew that the assēbly was provided for the particular profit of some few, & not for the cō mōwealth of Christēdōe. The like was afterward done by Hēry the 2. K. of Frāce strēgthned by the autority of al his Parliamēts, who hauehave stil opposed thēselues against the executiō of the Trē tish decrees, as being abusiue & ful of Nullities. Yet the same Hēry obtained of the aGent: 1: 3:Swicers, Papists & al, that they should not consent to that Coūcel. Truth it is that bDeclar. du Roy deNavar. premier Recutil.Charls the 9. did send to the Pope to prolong the Synode, & having obtained so much, did send his Legats & Bishops to Trent, with large Instructions for the reformatiō of the Clergy, wherin whē they had labored for the space of 18. months, & could get nothing yeelded vntounto, the K. informed therof, caused the to protest against that Coūcel, & to come their waies: which they did immediatly, notwithstādīg great means made by the Pope, & the Cardinal of Lorraine who bore thē grand sway in Frāce, to returne againe. So they signed not the Decrees of the Coūcel, & yet cūnīgly they are put in the Cataloge, 26. Frēch Prelats, as if ther amōg others had cōfirmed all. Such frauds be in the papacy. And as there in presence it was reiected by the Frēch, so it stood, afterward in so lIbidem.much that in the yeare 1572. when after the horrible Massacre was committed, time seemed much to favor it, it was propounded in the Parliament at Paris, all the Chambers being assembled, that this Coū cell might be admitted in France, but it was then also repudiated. Much in like manner was done to that purpose, in the dGent. l: …year 1585. in the time of King Henry the third, but it tooke no successe: & for ought that I could ever heare, it standeth vpō those tearmes till this present time, the Papists in Fraunce reiecting it. So that well you may take on you to be a foolish Prophet, and say that hereafter it will be thus and thus received, but for ought that any man else can see, this good Councell is as like to goe backward as forward. To returne here to the famousnesse of this Conventicle, Greeke Prelates there in the Catalogue are said to be sixe, which I conceiue to be such as in the name of the Venetians had Bishopricks on the farther side of the Adriatike sea, called in times past by the generall name of Greece, or else in some of the Ilands neere the bottome of Greece, but subiect to the Venerians. For of any who truly were of the Greek Church, I do not finde any mention. Of other nations of Christendome (the Italians and Spanyards being excepted) there is no countrey which had more then three, some two, divers but one, and yet we must allow their own account, and take Bishops for tales quales, at Goldwell was, to say nothing of Olaus: and any man who in that eighteene yeare peeped into Trent shall be nūbred for one. For Spanyards it is said of them that they were 31. And the lesse to be wondered at, since many things were there brued in behalfe of their maister, and if we will beleeue eDe Rep. lib: …: 6:Bodine, the King and people of Spaine are great servants of the Pope. For when hee had mencioned that the Popes in many ages had attempted to bestowe at their pleasure benefices in divers Kings Countries, but that still Princes hauehave reiected those ambitious Rescripts of the Popes, he addeth, I doe except the kings of Spaine, the most obsequious servants of the Popes of Rome, vvho not without a great rewarde did obtaine by a grant of Sixtus the Romans Bishop, that then benefices should not be given to strangers, It is then no marveile, if the Spanyardes so confederated with the Pope did bustle to Trent: but most of all their king then Charles the 5. vrging them thither, who meant to make no small vse of the countenance of that Councell against his Protestants in Germany, and therfore was so f… A…. 547:exceedingly angry when a stay was like to be of that Synode, a while after the beginning of it; some of the Fathers for fear of the plague creeping in at Trent, withdrawing themselues to Bonony in Italy, and the rest remaining at Trent, and so the congregation being divided.

7 But that which much commendeth this Tridentine Convocation, was the excellent number of Italian Prelates got thither: who being vnderunder the Popes nose; and fit to helpe at a pinch, are said there to hauehave bin to the number of 187. Where a man of cō mon sence may very wel smile, that out of Italy which for quantity of grounde containeth no more then the two Realmes of England and Ireland, there may come more then ninescore Bishops. Wherein we must doe well to giuegive a favourable interpretation, that peradventure some one pretty Bishopricke might yeeld towarde the reckoning two men or more, one beeing at Trent in the beginning of the Conventicle, another in the middle, & a third might be there in the end. But otherwise the truth is, that Italy hath many base and pety Bishopriks, of little circuit of ground and of smal commodity, which was long since observed, when the gIn remedijs Grava. German.Germanes in their complaints against the Papacy, could say that divers ordinary benefices in Germany, were of more yearly worth and commodity then many Bishopriks in Italy. Of these little hungry minims, at a beck of the Popes came vp so many at the end of the Coūcell, as they alone being a maior part of voices, were able by farre to overbeare all the rest of Christendome, which were there present. Before that time, what a goodly generall Councell was there at Trent, that Campian should vse such admiration in speaking of it, hRation: 4…Good God, what variety of nations, what choice of Bishops of the whole world, what glorie of Kings and Common-wealthes, what pith or marrow of Divines, vvhat holinesse, what teares, what fastings, what flowers of Universities, vvhat tongues, what subtilitie, how great labour, what infinite reading, what riches of vertues and studies, did fill that maiesticall sacred place? The true vanity and Rhetoricall flourish of his speech may well bee seene, by that poore confluence which was there, when some Acts & those of the greatest moment passed there, as by name that concerning the … Canonical Scripture, the equalling of traditions Session: 4…to the writtē word of God, the allowing only of the Vulgar Latin edition for authentical. For thē & after that, as appeareth by the calculatiō of the time, there were in the kSleid. l. 17meeting, besides the Cardinals which were the Popes Legats there, and the Cardinal of Trent & Pachecus the Spanyard, foure Archbishops wherof the poore & sterneling titulary Olaus & Venantius before named were two, Bishops 33. wherof two were French, fiue. Spaniards, one of Illyricū, & the rest were Italiās. Doctors of Divinity which were Monks, 35. other which were not Monks, 12. and all these almost Spanyards. This was your late famous Coū cell of Trent, so much craked of by all you Papists, who intend to make that seeme a mountaine which was meaner then a mole hill, that so you may feed fat your simple and credulous followers, with bigge words vttered in generall, and spoken as in the clowds. Now if we should sift also what manner of men, & what noble Clerkes many of those were who met there, the grace of this bragge would be so much the more stained. Calvin lived in that time, & saw what excellent rare lads they were, which went voluntarily out of France thither: for as before you heard, the kings sent none. I will cite his words as lIn praefat. ad Hist…r: Hu…it. ex praef. Cal…. cont Concil. …riden.Cochleus setteth them down, Let the Patrones of Councels answere me bona fide, if a mā should reckon them all in order vntounto them, what man of them would they not cō temne? Nay when those Reverend Fathers doe looke one vponupon another, it cānot be but they are ash…med of themselues. For they are knowne to thē selues, & what other mens iudgement is of them, they are not ignoraunt. Therfore if you will take away the name of a Councell, the whole Papacie must cōfesse, that al the Bishops which were there, was nothing but raffe. But I thinke good to leaue to other na…ions their ornaments vntouched. I will only intreate my countreymen of France, that they wil valew at a iust price that portion which they cōferred. Amongst the principall mēbers of the Church, they do reckon the kingdom of France▪ Frō thence there were two Bishops present, the one of Nene…um, the other of Clarement. Both alike vnlearned and stupidious. The Archbishop Aquensis I doe scant nū ber amongst French men. And he of Agatha as curious men vse to doe, was there but as an idle looker …n. I beseech you French men, who of you cā perswade himselfe, that these things doe come frō the holy Ghost, which even an innumerable multitude of such men shall babble out? For these imperfections and blemishes every way we vpō sound cōsideration thinke the Trent assembly to be worthy of no better titles, then the mco chl in Histor. Hus sit: lib: 1:Hussites gaue the Councell at Rome, which was called by Iohn the 23. or rather 24. as we account him. For when the Pope had in that meeting condemned Wiclef, the Hussites laughed at him, and his sily meane Conventicle, saying that it was done not in Generali Con…ilio in a Generall Councell, but in Angulari Concilio, in a Councell in a corner. And for Pralati de regnis orbis, the Prelates of the kingdomes of the world, they said there were pauci monachi & Simoniaci vrbis, a few monks & simoniacal persons of that city Rome. This is most true of your Trentish concurrence. VntoUnto all these maimes in it, we might adde, that for matters importāt, nothing was so cōsulted there, as that is was to be cōcluded among the fathers there assembled, but frō Rome was sent stil what should be determined▪ so that not vnworthyly the scoffe was vsed, that the holy Ghost which should hauehave directed at Trent, was sent frō Rome in a box. This be said touching the forme & circūstances of that assembly so unmoderatly & vndeservedly magnified, to the which I might ioine many other Nullities set down by nIn ex…mine concil. Trident.Gētillētus a French mā; & for the matter as it cōcerneth Popish divinity, it hath bin prety well coursed by Calvin & Chēnicius. So that being rightly balanced every way, there is little or nothing of authority to befound in it.

8 Your hope that the Councell of Trent will by some grace arise to a higher degree is borrowed from oRation: 4Campian, who …ide that while Chēnicius, vnlesse he did take heed should be buried with Arius, the Tridentine Synode, the elder it gr…w, so much the more dayly, and so much the more continually it should flourish. Well, the Prophet himselfe first came to naught, and the Conciliable now more then tvventy yeares after, is in the same case as before or worse. And it is to be hoped that higher it shall not rise, vnlesse it bee vvith the children of vnbeliefe. As for vsus that pro…esse against it, wee doubt not, but by the protection of almightye God, our religion shall stande vntounto the daye of indge…nte, maugre all the treasons and conspiracies vvhichwhich the Romish whore can hauehave against it. It is her pApoc. 18. 2Babylon that for a great part is fallen already, and must fall a faire deale more. Those whom you call new fellowes are able to proue every part of their profession to be more ancient then your vn-Catholike superstition. Your reasons why we cannot continue, do halt on every foote. We cannot call a Councell, Ergo we cannot continue. A simple Antecedent, and a childish Consequent. And why I pray you may not the Princes & governors of the Reformed kingdomes and States of Europe, as well assemble a Councell as the Popish Princes may? Yea and so much the better a Synode, because disputation and conference may be free, as being out of the worde of God, and not restained within the limits of your Popes pleasure. Then how can you proue that it is of the necessity of religion, that Generall Councels should be called? May not Provinciall assemblies serue the turne, for setling severall lands and countries, as they hauehave done before? It is de benè esse of religion, that there should be great meetings if there be cause, & they be lawfully called, and orderly proceeded in, but it is not de esse. Else if there had arose no qAct. 15. 6.variance in the time of the Apostles, which was the cause of their meeting, their religion might hauehave sunke. Your next proposition is as weake, that we can decide nothinge without a head. We hauehave a head and that is Christ: and his Spirit is his Vice-gerent to supply his place, and this Spirit will not be wanting to those who rightly & earnestly pray for him. And we hauehave also asquire to direct all by, that is the written word: we remember Christs speech, rIoh. …. 39.search the Scriptures. And for disagreement and stifnes to yeeld, if any be or hauehave bin of that minde, it is, vitium pers…na non rei, that party is to be blamed, and not his religion…. In all differences men are too much wedded to their opinions. Yet we doubt not but when Christian Princes shall be pleased to call a Generall Councell, in such sort and to such end as it should be convocated, God who moveth the mindes of the superiours like good Constantines and Theodosians, to do their parts, will also moue the harts of inferiours to humility and conformity, laying a side private spirits, which is much to bee intreated of the Almighty. Remember I pray you that there may bee c…rtaine rules set downe, which may bridle refractary persons, as it was sIn colloquio Ratispon. …601.lately at Ratispone. Remember also that the Councell of Constance could proceede not only without a Pope to be their head, but also against three Popes, removing them and deposing them. Farthermore you much deceiue your selues in your opinion of our discord, for we do not so iarre as you imagine. For certainly we al agree wel inough to lay your Pope on the groūd; and the Churches of England and Scotland, and France, and Switzerland, and the low Countries, & (calling none of the Lutherans) a good part of Germany with others iumping expreslie in the same faith, are able inough to make a most renoumed and Christian Councell. Do not thinke therefore that we are so farre from that as you speake of, for if you leane too much on that cō ceit, it will proue vntounto you but a broken reede, which will both faile you, and the splints of it also wil run into your hands. Gods word shall be the line after the which we all will walke.

T. HILL.

LAstly I would hauehave you here to marke the dealing of beretikes vvho play by Generall Councels even as they play by the Scriptures: for Conc. Flor. Sess. 5. & 6. Magdebur. Cent. 8. c. 9 & Cent. 9. cap. …9.they take and leaue as they lust and as best serveth their turne. There hauehave beene in all Generall Councels eighteene. All gathered, allowed, and confirmed by one and the selfesame authority, of which the Greeks receiue only seven. The Lutheranes the first fixe. The Eutyehians which are in Asia onelyonly the first three. The Nestorians which are yet in the East onelyonly the first two. The Trinitaries which are in Hungarie and Poleland receiue n…ne at all: behold the liberty of your Gospell.

G. ABBOT.

9 VVHat heretikes doe in refusing of Scripture wee list not now to examine: our iudgement and the reasons whervpon it is grounded, you hauehave heard in the last Chapter. Neither are we vnwilling to acquaint the Christian worlde, what it is that we doe holde concerning Councels: to wit that such as are rightly gathered togither, and take the direction of their conclusions from the Angell of the great counsaile, frō him who is called s…. 9. 6.Counsailer, such are to be much reverenced and esteemed, but yet still as the words of men, and not immediatly of God. For it is one thing to be the word of God; and another to be guided by it. The former great Councels did take the sacred Oracle for the load starre of their direction, the later tMat. 26. 3.Annas-like assemblies, and Cayphas-like Councels did least thinke of such matters. And therefore it may rightly bee saide that not the holy Ghost, but Sathan in the likenesse of such a uNicol. de Clem super materia Concilior.filthy bird as appeared at Rome in the Councel called by Iohn the foure & twētith, was President there. Yet we hold it worth the while, to looke a little into your doctrine concerning Councels. You make them of mighty authority as anone I shall shew, and yet the chiefe Patriarkes among you who boast so much of your Vnity and Consent, cannot agree which be the Councels whom you plead for to be authenticall. It is no marvell if your scholers cannot ye eld account of their faith, when you their Masters cannot. You for your part allow vsus eighteene Generall Councels, but you doe not make vsus so much beholding to you, as to tel vsus which they be. uIn initio Platinae.Ounphrius who was held for a great Clerke among you, reckoneth but sixteene, the fowre first of Nice, Constantinople, Ephesus and Chalcedon; then two other at Constātinople, then the second at Nice, then a fourth at Constantinople, then one at Laterane, the next at Lions, then at Vienna one, afterwards those of Constance, Basile and Florence, then another Laterane, & the last at Trent. xIn indice ConciliorūPossevinus keepeth your number of eighteene, but the Councels of Constance and Basile hee secludeth. But whereas by this reckoning if he ioined with Ounphrius otherwise, he should now hauehave …but fourteene, he maketh fiue in all at Laterane, and two at Lions, and so they rise to be eighteene. In this account his 'fellow Iesuite … Bellarmine … concil lib: 1: cap. 5:precisely ioyneth with him. And yet in substance they bee but thirteene, for he acquainteth vsus that the first and seconde at Laterane, both those at Lions, and that of Vienna be lost, which by a consequent diminisheth fiue of the number. yIn Chronograph.Genebrarde who at length grew to bee Archbishop of Aix thought himselfe as good a man as either of those, or any who would defend thě, and therefore he will not take it after their tale. For he reckoneth to vsus twenty General Coūcels, wherof as the fiue which are missing are a part, so he solemnely taketh in those of Constance and Basile for as good as the best. Thus the greatest Rabbins cannot agree among themselues. All the stirre is about those of Constance and Basile, who indeed do touch the Popes freehold, and therefore himselfe, and all the Parasites who stand for him, are not hastily to admit thē. The Coūcel of Cōstance did dosse three Popes which were vp at once in a schisme, & subiected the Bish. of Rome to a Coūcel, which goeth hard, & especially when the Synode may be called without him, as that was: & therefore he wil none of that. The Coūcel of Basil would not be at the lure of Eugenius the 4. but set vp zAe… Silvius deCōcil. Bafil.Amedeus the Duke of Savoy against him, & made him an Antipape; & this I tel you is dangerous doctrin. This doth touch the triple crown, & therfore it is good looking before these things be ratified. What shal we the think that the Pope did in this case? aVbi supraOnuphrius he goeth briefly to work, & saith that the Coūcel of Basil was cōfirmed by Eugenius the 4. & that of Cōstance by Martin the 5. So the if hee say truth, they hauehave al their cōplemēts, & must go for currant mony. Cōcerning the Coūcel of Cōstāce bVt supra.Genebrard …ūpeth with him, & saiththat by Martin the 5. it was ratified. But he extenuateth that of Basil and saith that by Nicolas the 5. it was approved in those things, which belōg ad cīsur as & causas boneficiales. cVt. supra: Sic Bellar. de Concil: lib: … cap: 7Possevinus like a Iesuit who must stick close to the Pope, saith that indeed that of Censures & of Benefices was allowed by Nicolas the 5. but the rest was al refused in the Coūcel at Laterane by Leo the 10. And there he telleth vsus that such part of the Coūcel of Cōstāce as did set the Coūcel aboue the Pope was caslated & cashiered: but that which was done against Wiclef and Hus was ratified before by Pope Martin. Is not your provorb here true. So many mē, so manie minds? that faith givē to I. Hus may be brokē, as being to an heretik, shal stād for good doctrin: but the allowāce of the dCoch…. in Hist Hussit. l. 7.Eucharist in both kinds, made to the Hussits by y^e deputies of the coūcel of Basil, & the yeelding to the other 3. articles is frustrated. And it wil go hard with the Vir. Mary also, who there was quit of being conc: Basil. Sess: 36.cōceived in Original sin, whervpō dependeth the feast of the cō cep… of our Lady as you cal it, wherof what the Frāciscane Friers will thinke, I leane to your consideration. By this, men may see how wise the Pope is, who will surely liue without his damme, if we will let him alone, when albeit all the Prelates of Christendome come togither and determine that which is good for the regiment of the Church, yet if it touch the Pope he will stande to nothing. Nay if Martin say yea, & confirme it, Leo comming after will say No, and vndoe it. So that let the Councel pray and talke what they wil of the holy Ghost being among them, if the Popes holy spirit do not agree with theirs, their holy Ghost is nothing. Somewhat it was that Pope fPlatin ain Faschal. 2:Paschall did put on a girdle whence 7. keyes and 7. seales did hang, that he might advertise men that according to the seven fold graces of the holy Spirit, he had power to close and seale, and open and shut the holie Churches over whom by Gods appointment he was ruler. That you must thinke to be all the world, and by a consequent the generallest Councell. Open your eies Papists, and see whither that these doctrines be not the mockery of all religion. You were as good take a compendious course, and say plainely that the Pope may doe what he list, as talke of a Councell and trouble a greate many mē about nothing, & then the resolutiō must be with gCentu. 16 in An. 1518Silvester Prierias, that the Popes authority is farre before the Coū cels, yea that the force of the sacred Scripture doth depend vponupon the authority of the Pope, or with hIbidem.Caietane the Cardinall who in a Conference with Luther at Auspurge did directly preferre the power of the Pope before al Scriptures and Councels, which Luther good man would not beleeue. I pray you gentle Doctor suffer your selfe to be coniured so farre as on your honesty to tell me, whither you or we do attribute most to a Councel, when we teach that many comming togither in the feare of God, and sincerely vsing the best meanes that they possibly can, and beeing directed by Gods spirit & word, may conclude that which must stand good: and you say that be they never so many, so learned, so holy, & do they what they wil, yet if the Pope like not of it, (& he will not like any thing that shall binde him to any goodnes) it is not al worth a straw.

10 I cannot here omit, that the milke which you gaue in the beginning of this Chapter, is nowe cast downe by your owne heele. I cōmended you too soone. A black More cannot change his skinne, and you will to your owne biace. Here the Councels were not only allowed and confirmed by one and the selfe same authority, and this you meane to be your Popes, but they are gathered also. The impudencie of this Proposition, which in a worde you thinke to steale away with, I hauehave shewed before. The Bishoppe of Rome durst neither for his head, nor soule hauehave saide such a word, in the time of the Primitiue Church. He should hauehave been most arrogant before God, and a rancke traytour to the Emperor his best master, if he had assumed that vntounto him. I helped you even now with a place out of Socrates: let mee now quit that with another. Thus then he saith, iSoc in pro aemio lib. 5.I hauehave everywhere in my storie made mention of the Emperours, becacause since that time that they began to be Christians, the businesse of the Church did seeme to depende vponupon th… …cke, y… and the greatest Councels were by their sentence or order called together, and yet are so called. Alas, there was no token of the prety Popes supreame authority in cōvocating such Occumenicall assemblies, till almost a thousande yeares after Christ. Afterwarde when the Pope had got the head, he began to bee a little bold: but his Dictates were only attended in such places of the West, as over which he had vsurped a spirituall dominion. But the Greeke and Easterne Church tooke no notice of those assemblies more then of factious and partiall Conventicles; which is the true cause that at the Councell of Florence (which was cunningly got togither by Eugenius the 4. to toppe that of kCoch hist. Huss. lib. 9.Basile held at the same time, and which was assembled before by his owne authority, but afterward thwatted some of his designes) the Greekes did take no notice of any of the Synodes at Laterane, Lions or Vienna, where their ancestours before had not beene: but only they tooke knowledge of such as whither the Greekes their predecessours had freely gone. And therefore as lLi. 4. Chr.Genebrarde saith, they who came to the meeting at Florēce, count that the eighth Synode, which is to be vnderstood, if they hold it for a Synode at all. And in the mScss. 5. & 6.Councell of Florence it selfe, the seconde helde before at Nice was then called by the Greekes the last Generall Councell, and speciall exception was taken to that which is commonlye called the eighth Generall Coūcel, albeit it was held at Cōstātinople, they saying first that it never was at all received, and secondly that afterward it was formerly abrogated. For in as much as it had condemned Pho…ius Patriarke of Constantinople, his successour Iohn called another Synode and antiquated the former. Marke here that the Patriarke of the Greeke Church thinketh that he hath power to assemble Councels, directly opposite to the proceedings of the Romish Bishop, and that he challengeth to himselfe authoritie, to dissolue and annullate that which he supposeth the Western Patriarke with others his consorts to hauehave done either vsurpingly or vniustly. So that very true it is, that the Greekes do not allow the eighth Synode, not the other which followed and were held in the west, by the meanes of the Romane Bishop, & with out their indifferent concurrence.

11 What you cite in the name of the Lutheranes, out of the Magdeburgenses is acknowledged, and consented vntounto by vsus. In the eighth … cent: 8. 9:Century, they among other Provincial meetings speaking of the confluence at Nice, which is commonly called the second Nicene Councell, in the setting downe thereof doe not dissemble their opiniō, that is their dislike vntounto it. And what Christian man is there rightly advised, which hath read the oExod. 20.second commandement concerning Images, who doth not both dislike and detest that Conventicle, for decreeing both erection and adoration of Images in Churches? In the like sorte in the ninth pcent: 9. 9:Century, the compilers of it do shew themselues not wel affected to that which you call the eighth Generall Councell, & they hauehave no smal reason for it. For besides the allegations of the Greekes against it, which even now is specified, and besides the matter of it, which I will not stand to discusse, there was a foule attempt at the very entrance into it. The Pope of Rome had so farre prevailed, that he had there his Agents who stoode at the Councell dore with writing tables, profering them to all who would enter there, and requiring that they first should subscribe to the Iutisdiction and transcendent authority of the Romane Bishop. To which Such as yeelded did enter in: and those who refused were not only repelled, but it was done with much reproach and disgrace vntounto them. A fit course to make a free Synode. And of this sort either directly or indirectly hauehave all the Popes Councels bin. You tel vsus that some Eutychians be in Asia, and Nestorians be in the East, whereas indeed Asia is in the East: but countrey in particular you name vsus none, nor authour you cite vsus none. I hauehave heard indeed of Marchantes who hauehave travailed in those parts, that at this day there is at Aleppo a Cō gregation of Nestorians, and likely it is that in the country therabout, or farther of in Armenia, there may be more. Neither is it vnlikely, but that some also may embrace the old heresie of Eutyches in those parts. In as much then as Nestorius was condemned in the third General qSocn 7. 33 Evagr. 1. 4.Coūcel at Ephesus, it is probable that his folowers wil refuse that Synode, & consequently all cōming after & ratifying that, & so they must only accept the 2. formost. And since Eutyches & Dioscorus were cōdēned in the 4. rEvagr. 2. 4Coū cel at Chalcedō, it is most credible that if there now be any who hauehave cōtinued or revived their dānable heresies, they wil not approue that of Chalcedon, but only such as went before it. What such in Polonia & Hungary do, as speake against the Trinity, & therefore are rather to be called Antitrinitarij then Trinitaries, …it mattereth not to vsus. We disclaime thē, we abominate thē, we execrate thē, as we do the Eutychians & Nestorians, & al other heretiks. Neither do we ioine with the Greekes in all things as you know, although some of their doctrins we prefer before those of the Church of Rome. And therefore most ridiculously & vnfittingly do you close vp your Chapter, Behold the liberty of your Gospell, when here are none named, the Lutheranes excepted, vvith whom we hauehave ought to do. And for our liberty in the Gospel, of reiecting such vnwarrātable stuffe, as Image-worshipping, Trā substantiatiō & the like, maintained by your heretical meetings, we learne it of sGal: …8: 9:S. Paul, who hath taught vsus not only that if a mā, but if an Angel frō heavē bring any other doctrin, thē is in gods word, let him be accursed. And we being sufficiētly informed by Gods word, that we are not to be inthralled to the beggerly sColos: 2: 20traditiōs of mē, do purpose by the assistance of the Lords heavenly grace to tGalat. 5: 1.stand fast in that liberty wherewith Christ hath made vsus free. VVee accept therefore of this Christian freedome, but Libertine-like licentiousnesse vvee leaue vntounto you. And so for a litle while I dismisse you, with this remembrance, that what you say of the Coūcels accepted or excepted against, by the Greeks, the Lutheranes, the Eutychians, the Nestorians, and the Trinitarians, both for the matter and quotations you borrow frō Cardinall aCoacil: l. 1. cap: 5.Bellarmine.

12 TO notifie then the iudgement of our Church concerning Coūcels; certainly we do hold them being rightly & lawfully assembled & proceeded in, to be great blessings frō God, & notable meanes to remoue schismes & to extirpate heresies. Thus we are taught by the example of the Apostles … cō gregating … Act. 15: 6.thēselues togither, and by the fruite which some such meetings had in the Primitiue Church. Yea we do like of that sentence of blessed Constantine after the Nicene Councel, who … said that the decree of keeping Easter by al vniformly, and not … Euseb de vita Const lib: 3: 18:by some after the fashion of the Iews, was to be imbraced at the gift of God, & as if it had bin a cōmandement sent downe from heaven, For saith hee whatsoever is decreed in the holy Councels of Bishops, that all ought to be attributed to the will of God. Marke hee saith not generally in the Councels of Bishops, nor in the Coūcels of holy Bishops, for even such may erre: but in the holy Councels of Bishops, that is in such as wherin men do holily conforme thēselues vntounto the Scripture of truth, & go no farther thē God is their guid. Such as come without humane preiudice, are zealous of truth, earnest in praier for it, diligent in searching it out, & hūble to yeeld & conforme thēselues to it. Such were the first general Coūcels where men did look to the load-star of the word, & therefore they are accepted of vsus. Yet so, that we do not esteeme thē as the sacred Oracles of God, equivalent to the Scripture, or of equal authentical force; but as the definitions of Godly men out of the word; & so that they giuegive no vertue to the old & new Test. but take al that which Coūcels hauehave, frō them, & therfore as takers and not givers, are inferior to them. We do therefore hold that speech of Gregory to be hyperbolically vttered, & not litterally iustifiable, I xGreg: li: 1: Epistol: 24.confesse that I doe receiue & reverence, as the foure books of the Gospell, so the foure Councels. And again. And yLi: 2: Epist 49.wee doe so receiue the foure Synodes of the holye Universall Church, as the foure bookes of the holy Gospell. If it be flatly and directly taken, it is a hard and vnfit saying, & it is wel, that it is but one Doctors opiniō, since the words of men, yea of all the world put togither cannot be ballanced in equall waight, with the immediate word of God, which is so directly inspired by the holy Ghost. A sweet childe the while was our Campian, zRation: 4:who would take on him to proue, that the rest of the Synods, & namely that of Trent was of the same authority with those foure first, and so consequently all as powerfull as the Gospels. By which reconing wee should not only hauehave a fifth Gospell of Nicodemus, or some such counterfeit, but eighteene Gospels more besides the foure Evāgelists, & so our Bibles now will grow so big, that one volume wil not hold thē. What a wrōg did that prowde and arrogant Iesuite to the Scripture, when hee durst write on that fashion? we dare not so far dignifie or rather magnifie the best Councels (after that in the Apostles time) for feare of blasphemy. But if we shall compare the better with the worser, the weaker with the stronger, we shall see that we are not to far to leane on such assemblies, least by attributing over much to such confluences, we sometimes take error for verity. For hauehave there not bin meetings which hauehave concluded against the truth, & yet hauehave caryed a goodly shew too? I wil not insist on Provinciall Councels, as that of aInter opera Cyptiā.A frike, where Cyprian & the rest cō cluded for rebaptising of those which were baptised by heretiks, or that of bSoc. 1: 21.Tyrus which proceeded against Athanasius being innocēt, or that of cLib: 2: 7.Antioch, as also of dcap. 25.Sirmiū both which decreed for the Arrians, against the faith of Consubstantiality in Christ with his Father. I will rather stand on those who go for generall, as that of Sardis in part reiected by eIn Indice conciliorū.Possevinus, that of Milaine where were 300. Bishops ioyning for Arrianisme, that of Selētia being gathered to the same purpose. Here may you finde more general Synods making for the Arrians while they were in anye strength, then making against them.

13 Lay to these the Great Councell of Ariminum, vvhere vvere sixe hundred Bishoppes mainetaining and decreeing for the opinion of Arius, and the authoritye vvhereof seemed to bee so greate, and vvas so farre vrged, that Saint Augustine himselfe had beene everborne vvith it, had hee not beene forced to flie to the Scriptures, which were and are the touch-stone to trye Councels by. The place which he hath to that purpose is famous, fAug contra Maxim. Arrian Episcop. l. 3:But now neither shoulde I produce the Nicene Councell, nor thou that of Ariminum as meaning to extoll it. Neither am I helde vvith the authoritie of the one, nor thou vvith the other. VVith authorities of Scriptures, vvhichwhich are vvitnesses not proper to either, but common to both, let matter contend with matter, cause vvith cause, reason with reason. Both of vsus doe reade, That vvee may be in his true sonne Iesus Christ, He is very God & life eternal, Let both of vsus yeeld to waight of so great moment. These are the words of the same S. Austē, who els-where had said, gEpist: 118:The authority of Plenary Coūcels is most wholesome in the Church. Very whole some while they keepe right with the verity of Christ, but whē they fal frō that, they are otherwise. But S. Austē was never of opiniō to atrribute too much to Coū cels: for he was not so simple but that he saw there were or might be many imperfectiōs in thē, yea in the best of thē. It is a worthy testimony which he gives in this behalf, whē he was pressed with the authority of Cypriā & the Africane Coūcel. hDe Bap…ismo cōtr: Donaust: lib. 2. 3.The sacred Scripture saith he is not at alto be doubted or desputed of. The letters of Bishops writē since the Scripture if there be any errour in thē may be reprehēded by the wiser speech of any one who is more skilful in that matter, & by the graver authority of other Bishops, & by the wisedome of the more learned, & by Councels. And who knoweth not that Provincial Councels without any sticking do yeeld to the authority of plenary Councels, which are gathered out of the whole Christian world, yea & that oftentimes the former Plenary Coūcels are amended by the later, when by any experiēce of things, that is opened which was shut, & known which did lye hid, without any vanity of sacrilegious pride, without any puffed necke of arrogācy, without any contention of malicious envy, with holy humility, with Catholike peace, with Christian charity. And some part of this he cōfirmeth againe afterward, Among after-cōmers, the later Coūcels are preferred Cap. 9.before the former, & the whole evermore by very good right is esteemed before the parts. Wel thē by Austens sentēce, evē General coū cels may be amēded & altered: therfore they may erre, or come to short. Which wil the better appeere if we remēber that sometimes one Councel is directly contrary to another, as that of Ariminum to the former of Nice, that of Franckforde touching Images, to the later at Nice, those of Constance & Basile in the subiecting of the Pope to the Councel, to those of Florence and Trent, the 2. at Ephesus approving Eutyches, to that of Chalcedō which cōdēned him. Yea the kSocrat. 2. 16.Coūcel of Sardis against it self, whē the Easterne Bishops were for Arrianisme, the Westerne against it, whervpō they devided thēselves in place as wel as in opiniō. It were thē a hard matter in an vnavoidable cōtrariety or rather cōtradictiō, to have both sorts of Coūcels allowed, the affirmer & the denier: & therfore simply, absolutly & of thēselues they are not to be held for sufficient cōfirmers of that which we must beleeve. It may bee added as another singular exception against Coūcels, that most of thē are hādled with such irregularities, that it is not only probable that they may swarve, but likely that they wil, since even the best men, & to the best Coūcels do come so laden with passions, affections, humours & partialities, that they wil not or cannot see the truth. One of the most moderate of all the Popish Councels was that of Basile, & yet what turbulētnes doth lDe Concil. Basilcens.Aeneas Sylvius witnes there to hauehave bin? He therfore in that argumēt is rather to be reade, thē that which cō mōly goeth for the Coūcel of Basile, as mIn Indice falcic: rerum expet. & fugiend.Orthuinus Gratius wel observeth, for in Aeneas who was present at that meeting, and saw and recorded all the manner of it, a man may find the order or disorder of it so described, that he may imagine himselfe to behold the Fathers there assembled sitting in their Pōtificalibus. If we would hauehave an exāple of this in an olde Synode, let it be the Coūcel of nSocrat. 7. 33.Ephesus, which is one of the foure Oecumenical great ones. For there was not onelyonly a clamourous division for a good space betweene Cyril Bishop of Alexandria, & the other Orthodoxe Bishops on the one side, and Nestorius with his hereticall Prelats on the other side, eche maintaining their faction, & proceeding to deprive eche other of their Bishoprikes, but Iohn Bishop of Antioch although Catholikein opiniō, groweth out with Cyril also, that he had fel to sentencing Nestorius before Iohns cōming, whervpō Cyril ioyning with him Iuvenal the Bishop of Hierusalem, proceedeth to deprive Iohn also of his Bishoprike. But afterward Iohn returning to Antioch, & callīg to him many Bish. falleth to the deprivatio of Cyril who was now returned to Alexandria. And that these and the like tumultuous fashions were not rarely but commonly vsed in other Councels, we need no better witnesse then Gregory oEpist: 55:Nazianzen, whose wordes touching this matter are these, I am of this …nde, of I must write that which is truth, that I doe flie all Councels of Bishops, because no mā yet could ever see ende of Synode to any profit, and whereby things which were ill were not more exacerbated then cured. For there is in them such a desire of contention, and such an ambition of dominering (doe not thinke me to write these things odiously and vnreasonably in this manner) and they are so impossible to be overcome in disputation, that if one will deale iudiciously with them, hee shall sooner bee helde guilty of some other evill then convince and cleere that which is theirs. This is the sentence of him who was very wise and learned, and in whose time diverse Synodes were aslembled, so that he might speake vponupon sounde experience. Thus men are, and ever hauehave beene men, and where such faction, contention, emulation, ambition, malice, bitternes is, may it not be well presumed, that the sacred Spirite of God in respect of any immediate and extraordinary influence of truth, may as well be absent as present? What then can certainely and warrantably be grounded herevpon?

14 If this yet doe not satisfie, wil you heare the reasons of one, whom by his owne words you may thinke to be a Calvinist, and yet he was what he was, long before Luther was borne. This partye whom I produce is the Arch-deacon Nicolaus de Clemangijs, who taketh on him to dispute whether in matters of fact a generall Councell may…rre or no? For that it cannot erre in matters of faith or rather that it cannot finally faile wee are saith he, to beleeue. But let the Readeriudge, whether hee doe not pointe shrewdly at that erring also, and whether his reasons beat not as fully to that, as to the other. I must drawe into a narower roome, that which he vttereth more at large, but yet so as to keepe his owne words, pDisputat. super materia Concilior general…n.Bee all Generall Councels of equall authority? If they be, why doth Gregorie so honour the fowre first, … the fowre Gospels? For by singling out those fowre, he leaveth in mens mindes a doubtfull suspicion of the rest If a Councel cannot erre, how may that rule of the Lawyers be vnderstood, that the Militant Church oftentimes doeth deceiue and is deceived? And how doth the Militant Church and triumphant in this point differ, if both of them be in all points infallible… is not the Church assembled in the Councell, a passenger and a pilgrime… if it be, then it is in the state of deserving ill or well, and may doe right or otherwise. That the Church cannot faile in faith, we hauehave a testimonie from Christ, Peter I hauehave praied for thee that thy faith faile not, but for other things I remem ber no such lesson. For that out of the Gospell convinceth little, where two or three are gathered togither in my name, there am I in the middle of them. For they may be deceived amonge whom Christ is. Iohn the Baptist said of him to the Pharisees, He was among you, and yet they vvere deceived, and he was among the Iewes when he was crucified and spit vponupon. And what madde man will say, that they could not be deceived? Againe of what assistance of Christ is that to be vnderstoode, if of his assistance by the presence of his divinitie, that is every where, and is nothing to this matter. If of the assistance by his grace, howe will it followe that where two or three come togither to confer about the peace of the Church or any other good, Gods grace should presently br infused in them, whē before they hauehave perhaps committed many sinnes where of they hauehave nether had compunction nor made confession. For thus some doe come togither, and either so presently with the comming their sinnes are blotted out, or else it is not necessarie that they should hauehave grace infused. But suppose they hauehave grace, will that make them that they cannot sinne, that they cannot goe awry by ignorance, or by some passion blinding them? Grace moueth to doe well, but doth not inforce or put in an inevitable necessity. If you vnderstand it of assistance by direction inwardly, that is given only to holy men who are filled with the spirit. Againe, Councels many times are gathered to alay schismes between Popes, & to make peace in the Church vvhieh perhaps God hath so interrupted, that hee may doe good to the Church, to purge it from pride, covetonsues, vanity, simony. Now it commeth not from Christ, that men should desire only the externall peace of the Church, for so doe many carnall men at this day, that themselues living in idlenesse and rest, they may freely serue their owne wils. And who will say that these are gathered in the name of Christ, who for this ende seeke the vnity of the Church? Yet of these there are so many as are scant to be numbred; carnall children of the Church, who care for nothing that is spirituall, may persecute those who are after the spirite, Such as for tē peral things come to the Church, hypocrites, eaters vp of Christ crucified, and of these is the Church so full, that in Chapters or Colledges you can hardly finde other. And of these as being the wisest fellowes are those who are sent to Rome & Princes Courtes, to generall Councels, & these vpō hope of greater promotion doe labor that they may be sent. And are these such who will come to reforme the Church, who only desire that freely thē selues may do what they list. But before peace & iustice can be there must be such are formation in the Church. He that seeketh outward peace before spiritual peace, doth as if he should build a house without a foundatiō. They who were assembled at the Councell of Pisa, said they had broughte peace to the Church, and gaue it out to the world, when there was no such matter. Do you thinke then whither they were deceived or not? and so a Councell may be deceivid. The holy Ghost directeth thē who hauehave fitted themselues as aledging to intertaine him by good workes. But how should he visite them who thwarte the spirite, and seeke to extinguish him in other men? which in steede of the fire of charity are inflamed with the heat of ambition? These will heare nothing which is contrary to their own lust, and taste nothing of spirituall giftes, and come with a false hart to handle Gods businesses, seeking those thinges vvhichwhich are their evvne and not Gods, which if Paule coulde say of his time, we may much more say of the dregs of our daies. With such the holye Ghost is not: and such stubborne ones woulde not yeelde to the motions thereof. Now if the Spirit bee not with such, and the greatest part of Councels consist of such, and there the Decrees are made by the maiour parte of voices, may not Councels erre? I speake not this of the present Councell at Basile, for there I heare mante good thinges are handled: but yet I heare there bee many things there vvhichwhich shoulds not bee, contentions, emulations, heart-burnings, clamours which the Spirite doeth not desire. There had neede be good men sent to Councels, that God may bee amonge them. The ancient Fathers did vse vvith praying, fasting and vveeping to begge at Gods hande, that his Spirite mighte bee present at Councels amonge them, to direct them, which they needed not to hauehave done, if they ware sure that hee coulde not bee absent. UUee reade in the Scripture that for one mans sinne, an armie of Gods freindes hath beene overthrowne. One sicke sheepe infecteth a vvhole flocke. And since on one mans sentence or voice, the vvhole assemblie dependeth, may not he both be deceived and deceiue a vvhole Councell? To doe all thinges vvell and never to erra is onelye the parte of GOD; but the vvorlde knovveth that men are not Gods, not Angels, but such as of vvhome it is saide. All men are lyers. They are subiect to passions and ignoraunces, which overtake men the more, when by vaine pride they vvoulde put them from them. If you saie that it resteth not on humane infirmitie, but it is of the povver of the holye Ghost, that the Councell cannot bee deceived, vvho is certaine that vvith the maiour parte of the Councell vvhichwhich must preponderate, the holye Ghost is present? If you sa…e it is likelye the spirite is in some sevve, and they may vvorke the rest to the right, what if the multitude hauehave deserved to be deceived? So Micheas could doe no good on all Achabs Prophets. And who knoweth whither the maiour parte of the Councell bee vvorthie to bee deceived or no? God in Ieremie did for sake the temple vvherein the levves did trust, and hee badde the Prophet that hee shoulde not pray for them, for he would not heare him. Therefore good mens praiers doe not alvvaies obtaine for the wicked. Yea but hee hath promised to bee vvith his Church to the ende of the vvorlde. But hee alone knovveth vvho they are that hauehave grace in his Church. The Lorde knovveth vvho, are his. The Church by grace may remaine in one onelye vvoman, as in the time of the passion it did onelye in the Uirgin Marie. Shall a Councell now bee of greater authoritye then all the Apostles vvere? And yet they all declined at Christes death, and vvere afraide. Shall is bee greater then all the militant Church, of vvhichwhich Augustine saide that heere it cannot bee vvithout spotte or vvrinckle, but in the nevv Hierusalem it must be. What should be the reason that the foure first Coūcels specially be in such estimation with all, but that there were better men, then sinca hauehave bin, & they framed thēselues to aske what the spirit was willing vntounto? These late ones are Coūcels of blend, & assemble about such things as flesh & bloud only would hauehave them. Then he telleth the tale how at Rome in a Councell a little before gathered by Iohn the 24. an Owle appeared looking directly vpō the Pope, to the amasemēt of some to the great scorne of other. Then he proceedeth, By the vnworthines of the head or the maior part, the Coūcel may misse of a good end other such causes there may be, as too much listning to tēporal peace, or too much presūptrē of their own grace & wisdome, or negligence of looking into the word of God. It is good therfore that they who meete in such assemblies be not too bold. In another qTract. priore de materia Conc. Generalis.treatise of this same argumēt, he had warned before, that men should not say as of likelyhood some did, Wee are a Generall Councell, let vsus goe to it boldelye, vv… cannot erre. What Papist will not think that this man in the matter of Coūcels is more a Calvinist thē Calvin himselfe. Let these reasons be well waighed, and then iudge whither too much bee to be attributed to Councels, besids those flawa & cracks which I formerly mentioned, as who are to call Councels, who are to hauehave voices in Councels, whither the Pope be to be subiected to a Councell or no, which the Pope and all his flatterers cannot endure.

15 He who list to knowe more of the Popes challenge touching his owne calling and overbalancing Councels, let him looke the censure of rHist. Hussit l. 9:Cochleus vponupon the Synode at Basile. There hee affirmeth that assembly to be but a Conciliable or Conventicle, after that Pope Eugenius had given out his summons, that hee woulde hauehave that meeting to bee removed to Ferrara first, but afterward to Florence, else there had beene at one time two general Councels, and consequently two Churches. Also, that the fathers at Basile with their Antipape Felix, were for eight yeares in a schisme against Eugenius, and yet they gaue out that they had the holy Ghost among them. That to call a Councell, by ancient right belongeth to the Bishop of Rome. That it pertayneth not to sheepe to iudge their shepheard. But Eugenius himselfe with more maiesty and Pope-like state could say, sIbidem.To that robbery at Basill, all the Divels of the world doe seeme to hauehave come togither. To these bracks about Councels, this one farther may be ioyned, that they say a Councell is not good, vnlesse the Pope confirme it. For now how shall we know whether a Synode bee confirmed or no, vnlesse there be some Bull or Decree published concerning that particular, since sIn Iudice Concilio…Possevinus the Iesuit in rekoning vp the Councels, nameth foure at A…les, one at Laodicea, fiue at Orleans, and divers other, which he saith are of greate authority, for although an open confirmation of them be not founde, yet they are allowed of by a secret consent of the Church, and the Popes and Doctors citing them. This is a point which may breede great difficulty, whither that be inough to ratifie a Synode or no. Also it were good that before we make Coūcels a matter of beliefe, we were assured that we hauehave none, but those which are right in the whole, and in the parts. For Actes of Councels hauehave bin much falsified, as it is alleadged in the sixt Generall Councell holden at Constantinople, tAction. 14that some had falsified the Actes of the fifth Generall Councel holden in the same place, as was apparantly deprehended. How those in Afrike did cōplaine of the Popes forsting in somewhat to the first Nicene Synode, I hauehave shewed before; and how the Councell sent to Nice it selfe to see the Originall. But in the same manner hath the Pope complained, that other hauehave also falsified the Actes of the same Councell. For Felix Bishop of Rome himselfe hath made this Decree, uIn Decretis felicis Papae. In Concilijs.Let the persons of the accusers be without all suspicion, because by reason of the molestations offered by evill men, this was defined in the Nicene Councell by all, although by the falshoode of lewde persons, these and many other things are blotted out. We then had neede to take heede, that wee do: not beleeue those things as certaine, which of themselues are so vncertaine. Let Papists doe it if they wil. Lastly before I shut vp this Chapter it is not amisse to know, that it is not for the ancient Synods that the Romanists doe striue, but for those which lately were helde, wherein their Pope bore much sway, and their Popery was established by fragments. For out of the old Councels both Provinciall and Vniversall, there are many matters contrary to their definitions. As in the thirde Councel at Carthage there is much spoken concerning the children of Priests, which sheweth that Priests then were ordinarily marryed. And there it is that the Pope should not be called the Prince of Priests or chiefe Priest. In the Elibertine Councell is a flat decree against Images in Churches, It uCanon 36pleaseth vsus that pictures should not be in the Churches, least that which is worshipped or adored, should be painted on wals. In the fifth xIn epistol. felicis.Councell at Constantinople, by an Epistle of Pope Felix to Zeno, it is shewed that the Church is built on the confession of Peter, not on his person or place. In the ninth Councel of yCanon. 1.Toledo, if a Metropolitane defraude the Church, complaint thereof is to be made to the king, which sheweth that Princes then had to do with persons and causes Ecclesiasticall. Very many more such instances may be brought, how the old Councels knew nothing of that hart of Popery, which since hath growne vp, by the connivence of some Princes, the weaknes of other, and the notable cunning of Antichrist. And for times now long agone the extravagancie and transcendencie of the Roman Bishops power is no where knowne. For in the Nicene zCanon. 6Councell, the Bishop of Alexandria in his Province, and the Patriarke of Antioch in his, hauehave as much iurisdiction as the Pope hath in his. In the aIsidor in praefat. Cō cil. Ephesin.Ephesine Synode Cyrill of Alexandria was president, and not the Bishoppe of Rome, and there it is saide that bIn epistol. ad NestoriūPeter and Iohn were each to other of equall dignitie, because they were Apostles and holie disciples, which overthroweth the Primacie of the Romane Bishoppe deriving his prerogatiue only from Peters preeminence. And in the Councell of cCanon. 1.Chalcedon all is confirmed which was decreed before in other Synodes. Thus the Pope and Papists should gaine much by sending vsus to looke into the most ancient Councels.

Doctor Hills Reasons for Upholding of Papistry Unmasked, Dialogue 9

p. 331THE NINTH REASON. Councels.

THE NINTH REASON. Councels.