All the Examinations of the Martyr John Bradford, Examination 2
¶The effect of the ſecond examinacion of Iohn Bradforde in the temple of S. Marie Oueries, before the lorde Chauncelour and diuers other byſhoppes the .xxix. daye of Ianuarii .1555.
AFter the excommunycaciō of Ihō Rogers, Iohn Bradford was called in, & ſtandynge before the lord Chancelour & other biſhops ſet wt him: the ſaid lord Chācelor ſpake thus in effect. That wheretofore the .22 of Ianuarie, they called the ſayde Bradford before thē & offred vntounto hym ye Queenes pardō, although he had contēned ye ſame, & further he ſaid yt he would ſtifly & ſtoutly maintaine & defende therronious doctrine holdē in ye daies of kyng Edward the .6. yet in cōſideraciō that the Queenes highnes is wō derfull merciful, they thoughte good eftſones to offer the ſame, mercy againe before it be to late. Therfore (ꝙ my lorde Chauncellour) nowe aduiſe you well, there is yet ſpace and grace tofore wee ſo procede, that you be committed to the ſeculer power, as we muſte do, and wil do, if you will not follow thexample of M. Barlowe & Cardmaker whō he there cōmended, adding oratoriouſly amplificacions, to moue the ſaide Bradford to yeld to the religiō preſētly ſet forth. After the lord Chauncellors long talke, Bradford began on this ſorte to ſpeake. My Lord (quoth he) & my lordes al, as now I ſtand in your ſyght before you, duplicate page duplicate page ſo I humbly beſeche your honors to conſider, that you ſit in ye ſight of the lord: who as Dauid doeth witneſſe is in the congregacions of iudges, and fittes in the myddeſt of thē iudgeing. And as you woulde youre place, to bee nowe of vsus taken as gods place: ſo demonſtrate your ſelues, to folowe hym in your ſittyng, that is: ſeke no giltleſſe bloude, nor hunte not by queſtiōs, to bring into ye ſnare, them whiche are out of the ſame. At this preſente I ſtande before you, giltie or giltleſſe: if giltie, thē procede and geue ſentence accordinglye, if giltles, then geue me the benefite of a ſubiect, whiche hitherto I could not hauehave. Heare the Lorde Chauncellour replyed and ſaide, that the ſaid Bradford began with a true ſentence: Deus ſtetit in ſinagoga. &c. but, ꝙ he, this and all thy geſture, declareth but Hypocriſie, and vain glory. And further he made much a do to purge himſelf, that he ſought no giltles bloud, and ſo beganne a lōg proceſſe, howe that Brodfordes facte at Poules croſſe, was preſūptuous arrogant, and declared a taking vpō him, to lead the people. whiche coulde not, but tourne to much diſquietnes, ꝙ he, in yt thou, ſpeakīg to Bradford, was ſo prefract and ſtout in religion, at that preſēt. For ye which as thou waſt thē committed to priſon, ſo hitherto haſte thou bene kepte in priſō, where thou haſte written letters to no litle hurte to the Queenes people, as by the reporte of therle of Darby in the parlement houſe, was credeblye reported. And to this be added, yt the ſaid Bradford did ſtubbernly behaue himſelf, the laſt time he was before them, and therfore not for any other thynge now I demaund thee of (ꝙ he) but of & for thy doctrine & religiō. Mi lord (ꝙ Bradforde) where you accuſe me of hipocriſy & vain glory, I muſt & wil leaue it to the lordes declaraciō, which one daie wil open yours & my trueth: & heartye dealinges. In the meane ſeaſon I wil contēt my ſelf, wt the teſtimony of mine own conſcience. Which if it yelded to hipocriſy, could not but hauehave god my foe alſo, and ſo both god and man were agaynſt me. As for my facte at Poules croſſe, and behauior before you at the Towre, I doubt not but god wyll reuele it to my comfort. For if euer I dydde any thynge which god vſed to publyke benefite, I think that, yt my dede was one: and yet for it I hauehave beene & am kept of lōg time in priſō. And as for letters & religion I anſwer (ꝙ Bradforde) as I did the laſte tyme I was beefore you. There diddeſte thou ſaye (ꝙ my Lorde Chauncellour) that thou wouldſt ſtubbernli & manly maintein therronious doctrine in kīg Edwardz daies. My lorde (ꝙ Bradforde) I ſaid the laſt time I was before you yt I had .6. times taken an othe, yt I ſhould neuer cōſent to the practiſing of any Iuriſdiccion on the biſhop of Rome his behalfe, and therefore durſte not aunſwere to any thynge ſhoulde be demaunded ſo, leaſt I ſhould be forſworn, whiche God forbid. Howe bee it ſauyng myne othe, I ſaid that I was more confirmed in the doctrine ſet forth publike in kīg Edwardes daies, then euer I was, before I was put in priſone, and ſo I thought I ſhould be, & think yet ſtyll I ſhall bee founde more ready to geue my lyfe, as god wil, for the confirmacion of theſame. I remember wel (ꝙ my lord Chā celour) that thou madeſt muche a doe about a nedeles matter, as though the othe againſt the B. of Rome wer, ſo great a matter. So others hauehave done before thee, but yet not in ſuche ſorte as thou haſt done. For thou pretendiſt a cōſcience in it, whiche is nothinge els but mere hipocriſie. My conſciēce ꝙ Bradforde, is knowen to the Lorde, and whether I deale here in hipocritally or no, he knoweth. As I ſaide therfore then my lord, ꝙ he ſo ſaye I againe nowe, that for feare leſt I ſhould be periured I dare not make anſwere to any thyng, you ſhal demaunde of me, yf my aunſweryng ſhould cōſent, to the practyſing of any iuriſdiccion for the .B. of Rome, here in England. Why, ꝙ my lord Chancelour, diddeſt thou not begin to tel, that we ar Dii and ſit in gods place, and nowe wilte thou not make vsus aunſwere? My lorde, ꝙ Bradforde, I ſayde you woulde hauehave your place takē of vsus now, as goddes place, and therefore I brought foorth that pece of ſcrypture, yt ye mighte be the more admoniſhed to folowe God and his wayes at this preſente, who ſeeth vsus all, and well perceyueth, whether of conſcience I pretende thys matter of the othe or no. No, ꝙ my my lord Chancelor, al men may ſe thi hipocriſy: for, if for thine othes ſake thou doeſt not aunſwere, thē wouldeſt thou not hauehave ſpokē as thou didſt, & hauehave aunſwered me at the firſt. But now mē may wel perceiue, yt this is but a ſtartynge hole to hide thy ſelfe in, becauſe thou dareſt not aunſwere, and ſo wouldeſt eſcape, blīdyng the ſimple peoples eies, as though of cō ſcience you did all you doe. That whiche I ſpake at the firſte (ꝙ Bradforde) was not a replicacyon or an aunſwere to yt you ſpake to me, & therfore I nede not to lay for me myne othe: for I thought, perchance you would hauehave more weyed what I did ſpeak, thē you did. But whē I perceued you did not conſidre it, but came to aſke matter whereto by anſwerynge I ſhoulde cōſēt to the practiſinge of iuriſdicciō on the B. of Rome hys behalf here in Englande & ſo bee forſworne: thē of cōſcience & ſimplicitie I ſpake as I do yet again ſpeak, yt I dare not for conſcience ſake anſwere you, and therfore I ſeke no ſtartinge holes, nor goe about to blind the people, as God knoweth. For if you of youre honor ſhal tel me, yt you doe not aſke me any thyng, wherby my anſwering ſhould conſent to the practiſing to ye B. of Romes iuriſdicciō aſke me wherin you wil, and you ſhal here, yt I will aunſwere you as flatly as euer anye did yt came before you. I am not afrayde of death I thanke god, for I loke, & hauehave loked for nothīg els at your hands of long time. But I am afraid whē death cōmeth. I ſhould hauehave mater to trouble my cōſciēce by the giltines of periury, & therefore doe aunſwer as I do. Theſe be but gaye glorious woordes, ꝙ my lorde Chauncelour, ful of hypocriſie and vaine glory. And yet doeſt not thou knowe, ꝙ he ſpeaking to Bradforde, yt I ſit here as B. of Wincheſter in mine own dioces, and therefore maye doe this whiche I doe, and more too? My lord, ꝙ Bradforde, geue me leaue to aſke you this queſtion, that my conſcience maie bee out of doubte in this matter. Tel me here coram deo before god, all this audyence beyng witnes, that you demaund me nothing, wherby my aunſwering ſhould conſent to & confirme the practiſe of iuriſdiccion for the B. of Rome here in Englād: and your honour ſhall heare me, geue you as flat and as plain anſwers briefly, to whatſoeuer you ſhal demaund me: as euer any dyd. Here the lorde Chauncellor was wonderfully offēded, and ſpake much, howe that the B. of Romes aucthoritie, nede no confirmacion of Bradfordes aunſweringe, nor no ſuche as he was. And turned hys talke to the people, howe yt Bradforde followed craftye couetous marchauntes: which, becauſe thei woulde lende no money to theyr neighbors, whē thei wer in nede: would ſay, that they had ſworne ofte, they would neuer lende anye more money, becauſe their credytours had ſo ofte deceiued thē. Euē ſo thou (ꝙ he to Bradford) doſt at this preſent, to caſte a miſt in ye peoples eyes, to bleare them with an hereſie, which is greatter, and more hurtful to the cōmon welth, pretende thine othe, whereby the people mighte make a conſcience where as they ſhoulde not. Why ſpeakeſt thou not? quoth he. My lord (ꝙ Bradford, as I ſaid I ſay agayne, I dare not anſwere you for feare of periury, from whiche God defende me: Or els I could tell you, yt there is a difference betwene othes. Some be according to faith and charitie, as ye othe againſt the B. of Rome. Some be agaīſt faith and charitie, as this, to denye my help to my brother in his nede. Here again ye lord Chā cellor was much offēded, ſtil ſaying, that Bradford durſt not anſwere: and further made muche a do to proue, that ye othe to ye B. of Rome was againſt charitie. But Bradford anſwered, that how ſo euer hrs honor toke him, yet was he, aſſured of his meanīg, that no feare but ye feare of periury made him aferd to aunſwere. For as for death my lord (ꝙ he) as I knowe ther ar .12. houres in the day, ſo wt ye lord my time is appointed. And whē it ſhalbe his good tyme, then ſhall I departe hence. But in the meane ſeaſon, ꝙ he, I am ſafe ynough though al the worlde had ſworne my death. Into his hādes I hauehave cōmitted it, his good will be done. And, ꝙ Bradford, ſauīg mine oth, I wil anſwer you in this behalf, that the othe agaīſt the. B of Rome was not nor is not againſt charitie. Howe proue you yt, ꝙ my lord Chācelor. Forſoth, ꝙ Bradford, I proue it thus: That is not againſt charitie, whiche is not againſt gods worde: but this othe againſt the biſhop of Romes aucthoritie in Englande is not againſt gods worde, therefore it is not againſt charitie. Is it not againſt gods woorde, ꝙ my Lorde Chancellour, that a man ſhoulde take a kyng, to be ſupreme heade of the church in his realme? No ꝙ Bradford (ſauing ſtyl mine othe) it is not againſt gods worde, but with it, being taken in ſuche ſence as it may be wel taken: that is attributing to the kinges power, yt ſoueraintie in all his dominions. I praye you, ꝙ the lorde Chauncelour, where finde you that? I finde it in manye places, ꝙ Bradforde, but ſpecially in the .13. to the Romaines, where Saint Paule writeth: eueryevery ſoule to be obediēt to the ſuperiour power. But what power? que gladium geſtat, ye power verely which beareth the ſweord, which is not the ſpiritual but the temporall power: As Chriſoſtome full well noteth (ꝙ Bradforde) vponupon the ſame place, whiche youre honor knoweth better then I. He (Chriſoſtome I meane) ther plainly ſheweth, yt biſhops, prophetes, and apoſtles owe obedience to ye temporall maieſtrates. Here yet more the Lorde Chancelour was ſtered and ſaid, howe that Bradforde went about, to deny al obedience to the Queene, for his oth, & ſo (ꝙ he) this mā woulde make, gods woord a warrant of diſobedience. For he will aunſwere the Queene on this ſorte, that when ſhe ſayeth nowe ſweare to the B. of Rome, or obey his aucthoritye. No, wil he ſaie, for I am then forſworne, and ſo make the Queene no Queene. No (ꝙ Bradforde) I go not about to deny all obediēce to the Queenes highnes, by deniyng obedience in this part, yf ſhee ſhoulde demaunde it. For I was ſworne to king Edward, not ſimply: that is, not onelyonly concernyng his owne perſon, but alſo concerning his ſucceſſours. And therefore in denying to do the Quenes requeſt herein, I denye not her authoritie, nor become diſhobedient. Yes, that doeſt thou (ꝙ my Lorde Chancelor.) And ſo he beganne to tell a longe tale, howe if a manne ſhoulde make an othe to pay a .Cli. by ſuch a day, and the manne to whom it was due, would forgeue the debt. The debter woulde ſaie, no, you cannot do it, for I am forſworne thē. &c. Here Bradford deſired my lord Chauncellor, not to trifle it, ſaying: yt he wondred, hys honor would make ſolemne othes (made to god) trifles in that ſorte. And make ſo great a matter concernīg vowes as thei cal it, made to the biſhop for mariage of prieſtes. At theſe wordes ye lord Chā celour was much offended, & ſaid he did not trifle, but (ꝙ he) thou goeſt about to denie obedience to the Queene, which now requireth obedience to the B. of Rome. No my lord (ꝙ Bradford) I dooe not denye obedience to the Queene, yf you would diſcerne betwene genus and ſpecies. Becauſe I may not obey in this, to reaſon, ergo I maye not obey in the other, is not firme. As if a mā let one ſel a pece of his inheritāce, yet this notwtſtādyng al his inheritāce is not let or ſold. And ſo in this caſe, all obedyence I denye not becauſe I denie obedience in this branche. I wil none of thoſe ſimilitudes ſaid the lorde Chancellour. I would not vſe thē (ꝙ Bradforde) if that you wente not about to perſwade ye people, I meane that which I neuer mēt. For I my ſelf, not onelyonly meane obedience, but wil geue enſample▪ of all moſt humble obedience to ye Queenes highnes, ſo long as ſhe requireth not obedience agaynſte god. No no (ꝙ my lorde Chauncelour) al men maie perceiue wel inough your meaning. There is no man, though he bee ſworne to the king, doth therfore break his othe, yf afterwardes he be ſworne to the Frenche king and to themperour. It is true my Lorde (ꝙ Bradforde) but the caſes bee not like. For here is an excepciō: thou ſhalt not ſweare to ye. B. of Rome at any time. If in like maner we were ſworne, thou ſhalt not ſerue themperour &c. you ſee there were ſome alteracion and more doubt. But (ꝙ Bradford) I beſeche your honour, remembre what ye youre ſelfe hauehave written, anſweringe the obieccions here againſt, in youre boke de vera obedientia. Vincat modo domini verbi veritas. Let Gods woorde and the reaſons thereof beare the bell awaie. Heare the lord Chauncelor was throughlye moued, and ſaide ſtyll, howe that Bradforde had written ſedicious letters, and peruerted the people thereby, and did ſtoutly ſtand, as though he would defende the erronious doctrine in kynge Edwardes tyme, againſt all men, & now (ꝙ he) he ſaieth, he dare not anſwer. I hauehave written no ſedicious letters (ꝙ Bradforde) I hauehave not peruerted ye people. But that which I hauehave writtē & ſpokē, yt wil I neuer deny by gods grace. And wher your L. ſaith, I dare not anſwer you: yt al mē may know I am not afraid, ſauīg mine oth, aſk me what you wyl, & I will plainelye make you anſwer by gods grace: although I now ſee my lyfe lyeth theron. But O lord (ꝙ he) into thy hands I cōmit it, come what come will: onelye ſanctifie thy name in me, as in one inſtrumente of thy grace. Amen. Now aſke what you wil (ꝙ Bradford) & you ſhall ſe I am not afraid by gods grace, flatly to anſwer. Well then (ꝙ my lord Chauncelour) how ſay you to the bleſſed ſacrament? do you not beleue, there Chriſte to bee preſente concernynge his naturall bodye? My lorde (ꝙ Bradforde) I doe beleue Chriſt to be corporally preſēt, in his ſacrament duely vſed. Corporally I ſay, that is, in ſuch ſorte as he woulde, I meane Chriſte is there corporally preſēt vntounto faith. VntoUnto faith (ꝙ my lorde Chaunceloure) wee muſte hauehave manye moe words to make it more plain. you ſhal ſo (ꝙ Bradford) but firſt geue me leaue to ſpeake twoo wordes. Speake on, quoth my lord Chancellour. I hauehave bene now a yeare and almoſte thre quarters in pryſone (ꝙ Bradforde) and of all thys tyme, you neuer queſtyoned wyth me heare aboutes, when I myghte hauehave ſpoken my conſcyence frankely, wythout peryll. But nowe you hauehave a law to hāg vp and put to death, if a man anſwer, freely and not to your appetite. And ſo you nowe come to demaund this queſtion. Ah my lord (ꝙ Bradforde) Chriſte vſed not th…s waye to bring men to faythe. No more did the Prophets or the Apoſtles. Rembeēr what Barnarde writeth to Eugenius the Pope: Apoſtolos lego ſtetiſſe iudicandos, ſediſſe iudicantes non legi. Hoc erit illud fuit ▪ &c. Here the Chā celor was appeaſed as it ſemed, & ſpake moſte gentlye, that he vſed not this meanes. It was not my doyng, although ſome there be) ꝙ he) that thinke this to be the beſte waie. I for my parte (ꝙ he) hauehave bene chalenged for being to gētle often times. The which thing the B. of London confirmed, & ſo did almoſte all the audience, that he hadde been euer to mylde and to gentle. At whiche wordes Bradforde ſpake thus: My Lorde, ꝙ he, I praye you ſtretche out your gentlenes, that I maye fele it, for hytherto I neuer felte it. As ſone as be hadde ſpoken thus, the lord Chauncellour (belyke thynkynge Bradforde woulde hauehave hadde mercye and pardone, as Cardmaker and Barlow hadde) ſayd, that wyth all hys hearte not onelyonly he, but the Queenes highneſſe woulde ſtretche oute mercye, yf wyth them hee woulde retourne. Retourne my Lord, quoth Bradforde, God ſaue me from that goyng backe. I meane it not ſo: But I meane, quoth he, that I was three quarters of a yere in the Tower, wythout paper penne or inke, & neuer in al that time nor ſithē, did I fele any gentlenes from you. I hauehave rather loked for, as I hauehave hitherto founde, extremitie. And (ꝙ he) I thank God, I perceue now, you hauehave kept me in priſon thus long, not for any matter you had, but for mater you would hauehave. Goddes good wil bee done. Here was now, diuerſe, tellīg my lorde it was diner time, and ſo he roſe vp, leauing Bradforde ſpeaking, & ſayīg, that in ye after noone thei would ſpeak more with him. And ſo was he had into ye veſtry, & was there al that daye tyll darke nighte, and ſo was conueyed agayne to priſone: declaringe by his countenance great ioy in god: the whiche God increaſe in him.