All the Examinations of the Martyr John Bradford, Private conversations

All the Examinations of the Martyr John Bradford · Private conversations

The ſome of the priuate talke had with maiſter Io. Bradford ſithen the .29 daie of. Ianuarie, by ſuche as the Prelats hauehave ſent vntounto him.

AFter my firſte arraygnement in the churche of Saincte Marie Oueris the .29. daye of Ianuarie, aboute▪ foure of the clocke in the euenynge, there came into the reueſtrye whither I was had after my arraigmente, and taried there al daye: a gentleman called Maiſter Thomas Huſſey of Linclonſhiere, whiche was ones an officer in the Duke of Norfolkes houſe to inquire for one Stonīg, and when it was aunſwered hym by the vnderunder Marſhalles officers of the kinges benche, which were there with Doctour Taylour and me, that there was none ſuche: he came forthwith into the houſe, & toke acquaintaunce of me, ſainge further that he woulde come and ſpeake with me in y^e morninge for old acquaintance ſake, for I was at muttrel iorney a pay maſter, in whiche he was and had often receiued money at my hādes. Now in the morninge about vii. of the cloke he came into the chamber, wher in I laye, and beinge alone with me, and ſet downe, he began a longe talke, howe that of louelove & olde acquayntance he came vntounto me to ſpeake vntounto me, that which he would further vtter, the effecte wherof was that I did ſo wonderfully (quod he) behaue my ſelfe before the lorde Chauncelour & the other Biſhoppes the other daye, that euen the verieſte enemies I had did ſee, howe that they had no matter againſte me: therefore aduiſed me, as thoughe it came of his own good wil without making anye other man priuie or aanye other procuringe hym, as he ſaid, that I would this daye (for quoth he anone you ſhall be called before them again) deſire therfore tyme & men to conferre with al. By reaſon wherof he thought that al men would thinke a wonderfull wyſedome, grauitie and goodnes in me: & by this meane I ſhuld eſcape the daūger whiche is nearer thē you be ware of ꝙ he. But I aunſwered breiflie & ſaid, that I coulde not, nor woulde not make any ſuch requeſte, for then (quod I) occaſiō ſhould I giuegive to the people and to all other that I ſtode in doubting of the doctrine, the which thing I told hym I did not, but thereof was moſte aſſured, and therefore I would giuegive no ſuch offence. As we were thus talkinge, the Chamber dore was vnloked, and who ſhould come in at the dore, but one doctour Seyton, when he ſaw maiſter Huſſey: what ſyr quoth he, are you come before me? yea thought I, goeth the matter thus? and he tolde me no man knew of hys cōming. Wel Lord quoth I to my ſelfe, giuegive me grace to remember thy leſſon, Cauere ab hominibus iſtis, beware of thoſe mē,Mat. 10 Mat. 7.Matt 10Matt 7 &c. caſt not your pearles before doges, for I ſee theſe men become to hunte the matter y^t the one maye beare witneſſe with the other. This doctor Seyton, after ſome bye talke of my age, of my Countrie, and ſuch like, he began a long ſermō of my lord of Cāterburye, maiſter Latymer, & maiſter Redley, and howe at Oxford they where not able to aunſwere any thinge at al, and therfore: my lord of Caunterburye deſired to conferre wyth the Byſhoppe of Dureſme and others. All whiche talke tended to this ende, that I ſhould make y^e like ſute beinge in nothinge to be compared in learninge to my Lorde of Caūterburye, whiche thinge is moſte true. But I breiflye aunſuered as before I did to maiſter Huſſey, wherwith they were neither of thē both cōtented: and therefore they vſed many perſuaſions, and Maiſter doctor ſaid, how that he had herd muche good talke of me, tellinge how that yeſternight maiſter Rū corne had made reporte of me, at my lorde Chauncelours table at ſupper, howe that I was able to perſuade as much as any that he knewe. And I my ſelfe quoth he, though I neuer herd you preache nor to my knowledge neuer ſawe you before yeſterdaie: yet my thought your modeſtie was ſuch, your behauour and talke ſo without malice and impacientye, that I wolde be ſorye you ſhould doo wourſſe then my ſelfe, and I tell you quoth he further, I doo perceaue that my Lorde Chauncelor hath a fauour toward you: wherfore be not obſtinate but deſire reſpite and ſew to ſome lerned men, to confer with all, but ſtill I kepe me to my Cokoo I coulde not, nor wold not ſo offend gods people: I ſtode in no wauering, but was moſte certeyne of the doctrine I had taught. Here maſter Doctor waxed hote and called me arrogaunte, prowde, vayne glorious, and ſpake like a Prelate, hauing no other aunſwere of me but that he ſhould beware of iudging,Mat. … Mat … leſt he cōdempned him ſelfe. Howbeit this would not ſerue but ſtill he vrged me ſhowing howe merciful my Lorde Chauncellor was, and how charitablye they intertained me: VntoUnto which wordes I briefly ſhowed him, that I neuer foūd anye iuſtice, muche leſſe charitie. I ſpeake it for my parte (quoth he) in my Lord Chauncellor. And ſo ſhowed howe I hade ben in Priſon howe I had ben handled and howe they had no matter now aageinſt me but ſuch as they ſhold hauehave by myn own confeſſion. But nothing of this talke moued maiſter doctor: who went from matter to matter, from this poynt to that poynte: and I gaue hym ſtil the hearnige and aunſwered not bycauſe he came to hauehave had ſomthing whereby my Lord Chauncellor mighte hauehave had ſemed to hauehave kepte me in priſon not cauſeles. When al their talke toke no ſuch effecte as they wold & loked for, maiſter Huſſey began to aſke me whether I would not admyte conference, if my lord Chauncelor ſhoulde offre it me publicklye: to whom I aunſwered this in effect, that conferēce, if it had ben offred before the lawe had bene made, or cōference if it were offred, ſo that I might be at libertie to conferre, and as free as he with whome I ſhould conferre: then quoth I, it were ſome thing, but els I ſee not to what purpoſe cōference ſhould be offered, but to deferre y^t whiche will come at the length, and the lyngering may giuegive more offence then do good. Hhowbeit quoth I, if my Lord ſhould make ſuche an offre of his owne▪ voluntarines: I will not refuſe to conferre withe whome ſo euer ſhall come. Maiſter doctor hearing this, called me arrogant ſtill, proud, and what ſo euer pleaſed hym, ſo that I beſought them both (becauſe I perceaued by them I ſhould ſhortely be called for) to gyue me leaue to talke with God, & to begge wiſedome and grace of hym, for quoth I otherwiſe I am helpeleſſe. And ſo they with muche a doo departed. And I went to god and made my pore praier acordingly, which of his goodnes he did graciouſlie accepte and did helpe me in my neade, prayſed therfore be his holyename.

Shortely after they were gone, I was had to ſaint Marie oueris and there taried vncalled for, till xi. of the clocke that is: till Maiſter Saunders was excommunicated.

VponUpon the .3. of Februarie, the Byſhoppe of London came to the Counter in the pultrie to diſgrad Maiſter Doctor Taylor, about one of the clocke at after noone, but before he ſpake to Maiſter, Tailour: I was called forth vntounto him: when he ſawe me, of went hys cappe, & out ſtretched he his hāde, and on this ſort he ſpake to me, that bycauſe he perceaued I was deſyrous to conferre withe ſome lerned man, therfore he had broughte maiſter Archedeacone Harpſfeld to me, and quoth he, I tell you, you doo like a wiſe man, but I praye you goe roundlye to worke, for the tyme is but ſhort: my Lorde, quoth I, as roundelyl as I can I wyll go to woorke with you, I neuer deſired to conferre with anye man nor yet doo, howbeit if you will hauehave anye to talke with me I am redy to heare and aunſwere hym. What quoth my Lord of London in a fume to the keper: did not you tell me that this man deſired conference? No my Lorde quoth he. I tolde you that he wold not refuſe to cōferre with any, but I did not ſhewe to anye that it was his deſire. well quoth my Lord of London, maiſter Bradforde you are welbeloued, I pray you conſider your ſelf and refuſe not charitie when it is offered. In dede my Lord quoth I, this is finale charitte, to condemne a man, as you hauehave condempned me, whiche neuer brake the lawes, In Turckie a man may hauehave tought free, but in England I cold not fynd it, for I am condempned for my faith ſo ſone as I vttered it at your requeſte, before I had cōmitted any thing againſte the lawes. As for conference, I am not afrayed (quoth I) to talke with whome you will, but to ſaye that I deſire to conferre: that do I not. Well well quoth my Lorde of London, and ſo called for maiſter Taylor, and I went my waye.

VponUpon the 4. of Februarie came one of my lord Chaūcellors gentlemen, ſent as he ſaid frō my lord as then being come frō the court. Thys was about .8. of the clocke the eueninge. The effecte & ende of his talke & meſſage was, that my Lorde his maiſter did louelove me well, and therefore he offered me tyme to conferre if I woulde deſire it, but as I had aunſwered others in this matter, ſo I aunſwered him, that I wold neuer make that ſute, but quoth I, to cōferre with any, I will neuer refuſe: bycauſe I am certaine and able I thancke god, to defend by godlye learning, my faith. Thus with much a doo we ſhoke hands, and departed, he to his maiſter, and I to my pryſon.

VponUpon the 7. of Februarie came one maiſter Wollerton a Chapplaine to the Biſhoppe of Lōdon to conferre with me: Who, when he perceaued that I deſired not his comming, beinge as one moſt certain of my doctrine. And therfore wiſhed rather his departing thē abiding: well maiſter Bradford quoth he, yet I pray you let vsus conferre a litle, perchance you may do me good, if I can dooe you none. VponUpon whiche wordes I was content to talke. He ſpake muche of the doctors and fathers, of the bread in the .6. chapiter of Iohn. And ſo wolde proue tranſubſtātiation: & howe that wicked mē do receiue Chriſts bodie. And I on the contrarie parte improued his aucthours, with much by talke betwixte vsus bothe, and the keper, who toke his parte litle to y^e purpoſe. Sūma to this iſſue we came, that he ſhould draw out of the ſcriptures and doctours, his reaſōs. And I wold peruſe them, and if I could not aunſwere thē, I would giuegive place. And ſo I deſired him to do my reaſons, which I woulde make, and ſo departed for that daye.

The next day following in the morning, he ſent me halfe a ſhete of paper written on bothe ſides, with no reſons how he gathered his doctrine, but onlye the bare ſentence: Panis quem ego dabo: The bread whiche I wil giuegive is my fleſhe. And the places in the 26. of Matth. 14. of Marke .22. of Luke, & the .10. and .11. to the Corinth. with ſome ſentences of the doctors, all which made as much againſt him, as with hym al only one of Theophilactꝰ except in the after nowne he came himſelf, and then we had a longe bablynge to none effecte, and at the lenght he came to the church, and how that I ſhwarued frō the churche. Na▪ quoth I, that doo I not, but you do, for y^e church is Chriſts ſpouſe and Chriſtes obedient ſpouſe, as▪ your church is not, which robbeth the people of the Lordes Cuppe, & of ſeruice in the Engliſh tonge. Why quoth he, it is not profitable to hauehave the ſeruice in Engliſhe, and ſo he brought forth this ſentence to proue it. Labia Sacerdotis cuſtodiant, legem. The lipes of the prieſtes ſhould kepe the law, and out of his mouth mē muſt loke for knowledge. Why quoth I ſhould not the people thē hauehave the ſcriptures: wherfore ſerueth this of Chriſte, ſearche the ſcriptures.Ioh. 5.John 5 This quoth he was not ſpoken to the people, but to the Scribes, & learned men: wel quoth I, then the people muſt not hauehave the ſcriptures, whiche he affirmed bringinge fourth this. E… erunt docti a deo, They ſhalbe all taught of God. But muſt we, quoth I, lerne all at the prieſtes? yea quoth he, well then ſaid I, I ſee you would bringe the people to hange vppe Chriſt and let Barrabas goo,Luk. 23Luke 23 as the prieſtes thē did perſwade the people. A which wordes he was ſo offēded: that he had no luſte to talke any more. Summa I gaue hym the reaſons. I had gathered againſt tranſubſtantiacion, and prayed hym to frame his in the frame of reaſons, and I woulde aunſwere them, well quoth he, I wil do ſo, but firſt I wil anſwere yours. The whiche thing he hath not done hitherto, nor wil not: for I heare that he is ridden into the Country.

VponUpon the .12. of Februarye there came one of the Erle of Darby his men called Stephen Beiche, one of olde acquentaunce to me: who ſhowed me, that my lord ſent him to me, and willed me to tender my ſelfe, & he would be good lord vntounto me. Whē I aunſwered, that I thancked his lordſhipppe for his good will towardes me, but quoth I, in this caſe I cane not tēder my ſelfe more then gods honour: then he ſet before me, my mother, my ſiſters, frends, kyndſfolkes, & Country, what a greate diſcomforte it wolde be vntounto thē, to dye as an Heretike, well ſyr, quoth I, I hauehave learned to forſake father, mother, brother, ſiſters, frends, and all that euer I hauehave, & mine owne ſelfe: or els I can not be Chriſtes diſciple. And ſo he tellinge me, that my death would doo much hurte, and ſuch lyke talke: we ſhoke handes. Howbeit, nowe I remember that in oure talke he aſked me, if my lord ſhould obtaine for me, that I might departe the Realme: whether I would not be content to be at the Quenes appointmēt, wher ſhe woulde appointe me beyond the ſea? No quoth I. I had rather be burned in Englande, then be burned beyōd y^e ſea. For I know quoth I, that if ſhe ſhould ſende me to Paris, to louen &c. fourthe with they would burne me.

VponUpon the .14. of Februarie their came to me Perciuall Creſſewell one of my olde acquentaunce, and one that loueth my bodie well and my ſoule alſo, after his religion, bringing with hym, & as I learne a kynſman of maiſter Feckenham: who after much ado praied me, y^t he might make labour for me, a gods name, quod I, doo, you may do what you wil, yea, but, quoth he. Tell me what ſuet I ſhould make. Forſoth ſaid I, that y^t you wil doo, do it not at my requeſte, for I deſire nothyng at your hādes: if the Queene wil giuegive me life, I will thanke her, i… ſhe will baniſhe me. I will thācke her, yf ſhe will condempne me t… perpetuall priſonmente: I wy… thancke her, if ſhe wil burne me I will thancke her. Here vpo… he wente awaye. And about a .xi. of the clocke. He and the other man came agayne, and brought a boke of Maiſter Mores makynge to rede ouer, the whiche boke I toke. But, quoth I, good Perceiuall. I am to ſure ſetteled, for beinge moued in thes matters. Oh, quoth he, if euer you loued me, do one thinge for me▪ what is that, quoth I, at the lenght, for I woulde not promes, ſayth he to deſire and name what lerned men or man you will hauehave to come vntounto you, my Lord of yorke, my Lorde of Lyncolne, my Lorde of Bathe, my Lorde of of Chicheſter. &c. wil gladly come to you: No, quoth I, neuer wil I deſire thē, or any others, to come to conferre with me, for I am as certein of my doctrine, as I am of anye thing: But for your pleaſure (quoth I) and that all men maye knowe I am not aſhamed to hauehave my faith ſifted and tried, bringe whome you will, & I will talke with them. So they went theyr waye. And about .3. of the clocke in the after nowne, cōmeth maiſter doctor Hardinge the Byſhoppe of Lincolnes Chaplaine, and after a greate and ſolempne proteſtation, (when he knew I deſired not his comming), how that he had prayed to God, before he came forth to turne his talke to to my good: he began to tell of the good opinion he had of me, and many God giuegive you good euen, ſo that our talke was to none effecte or purpoſe: ſaue y^t I prayed hym, to conſider from whence he was fallen, and not to followe the world or louelove it, bycauſe the louelove of God is not where it is,1. Io. Sūma he counted me in a dampnable ſtate: as one being out of the churche. And therfore wylled me to take hede to myſelfe, & not to dye in ſuche an opinion. what maiſter Hardinge (quoth I) I hauehave heard you with theſe eares, maintayne this that I ſtode in. I hauehave (quoth he) preached that the doctrine of tranſubſtantiation was a ſubtill doctrine, but otherwiſe I neuer taught it. And ſo enuyinge againſt marieges of prieſtes, and muche againſte Peter Marter, Martyn Bucer, & Luther, which for breakinge their vowes, were iuſtly giuē vp into hereſies quod he. I ſeing hym all togyther giuē vp into poperie, after admoniſhement hereof, bad hym farewell.

Vppon the .15. of Februarie about .4. of the clocke in the after nowne, cometh Percyuall Creſſewell, and the other man waytyng vponupon maiſter Harpſfeld▪ Archedeacon of Londō, who after gētle ſalutation, and many formalities beganne a longe oracion. Howe that all men, euen the Infideles, Turckes, Iewes, Anabaptiſtes, and Libertines, deſire felicitie, as well as the chriſtians. And howe that euerye man thyncketh they ſhal attaine to it, by their religiō. To the whiche longe oracion I aunſwerred briefly: that he ſpake not farre a miſe. Then goeth he on, yea, but the waye, quoth he, thither is not all a like. And ſo he ſet furth, how infideles by Iupiter, Iuno, The Mahumet by his Alcoran, the Iewe by his Thalmud: beleued to come to Heauen. For ſo manye I ſpake ſayth he: as beleue the immortalitie of the ſoule. And this long oracion, I as brieflie aunſwered: and ſaide he had ſpoken truelye. Well then, quoth he, here is the matter▪ the waye to this heauen. we maye not inuente anye newe waye. Their is but one waye, quoth I, and that is Ieſus Chriſte, as he hymſelfe doth witneſſe: I am the waye, here Maiſter Harpſfeld affirmed and denyed, and further ſayde, that I ment by Chriſte, beleuing in Chriſte, I hauehave lerned, quoth I, to diſcerne betwixte Faythe and Chryſte. Albeit I confeſſe that who ſo euer beleuethe in Chriſte the ſame ſhalbe ſaued. No, quoth he, not all that beleue in Chriſt, for ſome wyll ſaye, lord Lorde, hauehave not we caſte oute deuilles &c? But Chriſte will ſay in the daye of iudgement to thoſe departe frō me, I knowe you not. yea ſyr, quoth I, you muſte make a difference, betwixte beleuing & ſaying. I beleue, as for example, if one ſhould ſay and ſwere he loued you: for all his ſaying you wil not beleue him, when you ſee he goeth aboute to vtter, and doo all euyll thinges againſte you. wel quoth he, this is not muche materiall. Theire is but one waye Chriſte. How come we to know him, where ſhal we ſeke to finde him? Forſoth quoth I, we muſt ſeke hym by his word, and in his word, & after his word. Verye good quoth maiſter Harpſfeld. But tell me now, howe firſt we come into the companie of them that could tell vsus this, but by Baptiſme. True, quoth I, baptiſme is the ſacrament, by the whiche exteriorlye we are inſert and engraf…e into Chriſte, for I dare not, quoth I, exclude oute of Chriſte, al that dye without baptiſme, I wil not tye God where he is not bound. Some infants dye: whoſe parents deſire baptiſme for them, and maye not hauehave it. To thoſe, quoth he, we maye thincke perchaunce ſome merciemercy God will ſhew. yea, quoth I. thoſe infants whoſe parentes doo contēpne baptiſme, wil not I contempne vtterlye, becauſe the childe ſhall not beare the fathers offence. Well quoth he, we agree that by baptiſme then we are broughte, and (as one would ſay) begotten of chriſt, for chriſte is oure father, and the churche his ſpouſe is our mother, as al men naturallie hauehave Adam for their father, and eue for theyr mother, ſo all ſpirituall men hauehave Chriſt for their father, & the churche for their mother, whiche churche. As Eue was taken out of Adams ſide: ſo was ſhe of Chriſtes ſide, where out flowed bloud, for ſatiſfaction & purging of our ſinnes. Al this is true, quoth I, and godlye ſpoken. Nowe then, quoth he, tel me whether this churche of Chriſte hathe not ben alwayies: yes, quoth I, ſithen the creacion of man, and ſhalbe for euer. Verie good, quoth he. But yet tel me, wether this churche is not a viſible Chuſche, or no: yes (quoth I) that it is, howbeit none otherwyſe viſible, then Chriſte was here on earthe. That is no exterior pompe or ſhewe, ſetteth her forth commonlye. And therfore to ſee her we muſte put on ſuch eyes: as good men put one, to ſee and knowe Chriſte: when he walked here one earthe. For as Eue was of the ſame ſubſtaunce, Adam was of: ſo is the churche of the ſame ſubſtaunce, Chriſte is of. I meane fleſhe of fleſhe, and bone of hys bones, as Paule ſayeth, Ephe. 5. Looke therefore howe Chriſte was viſible knowen to be Chriſte, when he was on earthe: (that is by conſidering him after the word of God) ſo is the church knowen. I do not come to reaſon, ſaith he, at this preſent, & therfore I wil go on forward. Is not this a multitude? yes (ꝙ I) that it is.Virgi… Howbeit, quod la…et anguis in herba You meane a ſutteltie in y^e worde, what viſible multitude was ther in Helias tyme, or when Moyſes was on the mounte Aaron, and al Iſrael worſhipping the calfe. you goo from the matterr, quoth he, No nothinge at all ſaid I. For I doo but preuent you, knowynge wel where aboute you go, & therfore fewer wordes might ſerue: if that you ſo would. Well, quoth he, I perceaue you hauehave knowledge, and by a litle perceaue the more. Tell me yet more. whether this multitude hauehave not the miniſterie or preaching of gods word? Here ſyr, quoth I, you go aboute the buſhe. If you vnderſtande preaching, for confeſſing the goſpel: I wil go with you, or els yf you wil, you may know that perſecution often letteth preachinge▪ Wel, I meane it ſo, quoth he. Tel me yet more, hath it not the ſacramentes, quoth I, howbeit the myniſterie therof is often letted? But I wil put you of your purpoſe, becauſe I ſee where about you goo. If heretickes hauehave baptized and doo baptize, as they did in ſainct Cyprians time: you knowe thys baptiſme is baptiſme, and not to be reiterated. This I ſpeake, that the ſtaunders by might ſee, that thoughe the poptſhe church hauehave baptiſme, whiche we receaue of them: yet therefore is it not the true churche: nor neuer neade we to be baptized again. which thing he ſawe well ynoughe: and therfore he ſaid, I went frō the matter, addynge, that I had more errors, then one, or two. So ye ſay, quoth I: but that is not ynough, till you proue them. Well, quoth he, this churche is a multitude, hath the preaching of the goſpell and the miniſtracion of the ſacramentes, and yet more, hath it not the power of iuriſdiction? Oh ſir, quoth I, whether goo you, you walke not wililey, ynough you cā not deceaue me (I thancke god): what iuriſdictiō is exerciſed in time of ꝑſecutiō, ī afflictiō. I meane quoth he, by iuriſdiction, admoniſhing one an other, and ſo forthe. well, go to ſaid I, what then? It hathe alſo, quoth he, ſucceſſion of Byſhoppes. And here he made muche adoo, to proue that this, was an eſſenciall point. you ſaye true, quoth I. For if this poīt fale you: all the church you go about to ſet forthe, will fall downe. you ſhal not fynd in all the ſcripture, this is eſſentiall pointe of ſucceſſion of Byſhoppes, quoth I. In Chriſtes churche Antechriſt will ſitt. And Peter telleth vsus, as it wente in the olde churche afore Chriſtes comming: ſo will it be in the newe churche, ſithen Chriſtes comming. That is, as their were falſe Prophetes & ſuche as bare rule were aduerſaries to the true Prophetes: ſo ſhal there be ſithen Chriſtes comming falſe teachers, euen as of ſuch as be byſhoppes, and beare rule amonges the people. you alwayes goo out of the matter, quoth he. But I wil ꝓue (ſaeth he) the ſucceſſion of Byſhoppes. Doo ſo, quoth I. Tel me quoth he, were not the Apoſtles byſhoppes? No, quoth I, excepte you will make a newe definition of Biſhoppes, that is, giuegive no certein place. In dede ſayth he, the Apoſtles office was more thē byſhopes, for it was vniuerſal. But yet Chriſte inſtituted Byſhoppes in his Churche, as Paule ſaith, he hathe gyuen Paſtours, Prophetes, ſo that, I troue it be proued by the ſcriptures, the ſucceſſion of byſhoppe: to be an eſſentiall pointe. To this I aunſwered, that the miniſterie of godes word and miniſters: is an eſſenciall pointe, but to tranſlate this to byſhoppes and their ſucceſſiō, quoth I: is a plaine ſubtiltie. And therfore, quoth I, that it may be playne: I wyll aſke you a queſtion. Tell me whether the ſcripture knowe anye difference betwene byſhoppes, and miniſters, whiche you call priſtes. No ſaithe he, well, then goo on forwardes quoth I: and lette vsus ſee what you ſhall get nowe by the ſucceſ…ion of Byſhoppes, that is of miniſtres, whiche can not be vnderſtande of ſuch Byſhoppes as miniſter not, but Lorde it. I perceaue, quoth he, that you are fare oute of the waye. For your doctrine, you can neuer ſhowe this a multitude, whiche miniſtrethe goddes woorde and his Sacramentes, whiche hath iuriſdiction and ſucceſſion of Byſhoppes, to hauehave from tyme to time beleued as you beleue, beginning nowe, & ſo go vpwards, as I wil do, quod he, of our doctrine. And therefore you are out of the Church, and ſo maye not be ſaued. Perchaunce you wil bring me downewardes, a ſhew to bleare the peoples eyes, but to goo vpwardes: that can you neuer doo. And this is the true triall. To this I aunſwered, that he ought to giuegive me leaue to followe the ſcripture and examples of good men. Then ſaid, yea. Wel then, quoth I, Stephē was accuſed and cōdempned as I am, that he taught newe and falſe doctrine before the fathers of the churche, then as they were taken. Now what doth Stephen for his purgacion, but improued theire accuſacions. But how doth he it, by goinge vpwardes. No, but by goinge downewardes. Beginning at Abraham, and cōtinuing ſtil till Eſaias time, and the peoples captiuitie. From whence he maketh a great leape, vntill that tyme he was in) whiche was I thincke vponupon a foure yeres) and called them by there right name hell houndes, rather then, heauen houndes. On this ſorte ſyr, quoth I. will I proue my faith, & that you can neuer doo yours, yea, ſyr, quoth he. If we dyd knowe you had the holy goſte: then could we beleue you. Here might hauehave ben aunſwered, that Stephens enemies would not beleue he had the holy goſt, and therefore they dyd as they did. But in ſpeakinge he roſe vp, and the keper called, and others that ſtode bye to take his parte all againſte me. Howe be it gentlie, without anye tawntynge or rayling, onelye prayinge me to take hede to that maiſter Harpſfeld ſpeake, who ſtill ſaid I, was oute of the churche, and did contempne it, ſpitt againſt it, and I cannot tel what. But I ſtill affirmed that I was moſte certeine, I was in Chriſtes churche, & could ſhewe a demonſtracion of my religion, from tyme to tyme continually. And ſo we made an ende, ſainge that in the mornynge he would come again vntounto me. God our father,A prayer …f M. …rad…ords. for the name and blod of his Chriſt: be merciful vntounto vsus, and vntounto all his people, and kepe them frō al falſe teachers, & blind guides, whereby (alas) I feare me muche hurte wil come to this realme of England. God our father bleſſe vsus, and kepe vsus in his truth & pore church foreuer. Amē.

Vppon the .16. of Februarye in the morning about .9. of y^e clocke: there came again the ſaid maiſter Harpſfeld, and the other two with him. Nowe after a fewe wordes ſpoken: we ſate downe, & maiſter Harpſfeld, beginning a very long oraciō, almoſt ther quarters of an houre lōg. Firſt repeting what, & how far we hauehave gone aſtraye, & beginnynge to proue vpwardes ſucceſſion of Byſhoppes here in Englād for .8. c. yeres, in Fraūce, at Liōs: for .xii.c. yeres, in ſpaine at Hiſpalen, for .viii.c. yeres in Italie at Millen, for .xii. c. yeres, goinge by that to proue his churche, whereto he vſed alſo ſucceſſiō of byſhopes, in the Eſt church for the more confirmacion of hys wordes, and ſo concluded with an exhortation, & an interrogation. The exhortacion, that I woulde obey this church, the interrogacion, whether I could ſhewe anye ſuch ſucceſſion for the demonſtraon of my church, (for ſo he called it whiche I followed). VntoUnto this his long oracion, I made a ſherte aunſwered, howe that my memorie was euill for to aunſwere particularlye his long oracion, therfore I woulde generallye doo it, thinckinge that bycauſe his oracion was rather to perſwade, then to proue: that a general aunſwere would ſerue. So I told him, that if Chriſte, or his Apoſtles beinge here on yearth, hath him demaū ded of the Prelats of the churche then, then, to hauehave made a demonſtracion of the churche, by ſucceſſion of highe prieſtes, whiche had approued the doctrine he taught: I thincke, quoth I, that Chriſte hert would hauehave done as I doo. That is, hauehave brought furth that which vpholdeth the church: euē the veritie of the worde of God, taught & beleued, not of the high prieſtes (which of longe time had perſecuted it) but by y^e Prophetes & other good ſimple men, whiche perchaunce were counted for heretickes with the churche: that is with them, that were ordeyned highe prieſtes in the churche, to whome the true churche was not then tyed by any ſucceſſiō, but the word of god. And thus to thincke quoth I?2. Pet. … Saint Peter gyueth an occaſion, when he ſaith: That as it went in y^e church before chriſtes comminge: ſo ſhall it goo in the Churche, after his commynge, but then, the pillars of the Churche, were perſecutours of it. Therefore the like we muſte loke for nowe. Why, quoth be, I can gether, and proue you ſucceſſion in Ieruſalem of the high prieſtes. From Aarons time, I graunte, quoth he, but not ſuche ſucceſſion as allowed y^e trueth. Why, quoth he, did they not all allow Moyſes lawe: yes, quoth I. And kept it, for the bokes therof, as you do the Bible and holy ſcripture: but the interpretacion and meaning of it▪ they did corrupte, as I take it you hauehave done. And therfore the perſecutions they ſtirred vp againſt the Prophetes & Chriſte, was not for the lawe, but for the interpretacion of it, as you ſaie nowe: that we muſt hauehave the interpretaciō of the ſcriptures, at your hādes. but to make an ende, quoth I, death I do loke daily for, yea, hourely, & I thīke my time be but very ſhort. Therfore I had neade to ſpend in praier, as much tyme with god as I can, (whileſte I hauehave it) for his helpe and comforte. And therfore I praye you beare with me, that I do not more plainlye, and in more woordes, aunſwere you longe talke. If I ſawe death not ſo nere me as it is, I woulde then weye eueryevery peice of your oracion: (if you would giuegive me the ſome of them,) & I would aunſwere them, accordinglie I hope. But bicauſe I dare not, nor I wil not leaue of, lokinge and prouidinge for that whiche is at hande: I ſhall deſire you to holde me excuſed, becauſe I doo as I do. And I hartelye thancke you, for youre gentle good will. I ſhall hartelye praye GOD oure father, to giuegive you the ſame lyght and lyfe, as I wiſhe to my ſelfe. And ſo I beganne as to riſe vppe. But then maiſter Harpſfeld beganne to tell me, that I was in a verye perillous caſe, and he was ſorie to ſee me ſo ſetteled. Telling further, that in dede he could tell me nothinge, whether death were fare of or nere. But that forceth not, quoth he: ſo that you did dye well. Well quoth I? yes. For I doubte not in this caſe, but to dye wel. For as I hope and am cercertain, my deathe ſhall pleaſe the Lord: ſo I truſt, I ſhall dye cherfullye, to the comforte of his chyldren. yea, but what if you be deceaued, quoth he: what quoth I, if you dyd ſaye the Sone did not ſhyne nowe. Then it did ſhine thoroughe the wyndowe where wee ſatt, wel, quoth he, I am ſorrie to ſee you ſo ſecure and careleſſe. In dede quoth I, I am more careleſe & ſecure, carnallie, then I ſhoulde be, God make me more vigilant. But in this caſe, quoth I, I can not be to ſecure, for I am moſt aſſured, I am in the truth. That are ye not, quoth he, for you are not of the Catholike church. No, quoth I? thoughe you hauehave excommunicate me: yet am I in the Catholike church of Chriſte, and wil be a child of it, and an obediedt child for euer. I hope Chriſte will hauehave no leſſe care for me, then he had for the blynd man excommunicate of the Sinagoge. And, quoth I, further, I am certain that the neceſſarie articles of y^e faith (I meane the .xii. articles of the Crede). I confeſſe & beleue with that, which you call the holy church. So that euē your church, hath taken ſome thing to muche vponupon her, to excō municate me for that, whiche (by the teſtimonie of my Lord of Duriſme in his boke of the ſacramēt, latelye put furth) was free of manye duplicate page duplicate page an. yeres after Chriſte, to beleue or not beleue: what is that quoth he? Tranſubſtantiation ſaid I. Why, you are not cōdempned therefore only, quod he. Yes quoth I, that am I, and bycauſe I denye, that wicked men do receaue Chriſtes bodie. No, quoth he, you agree not with vsus in the preſence, nor in nothing els. How you beleue, quoth I, you knowe: for my parte I confeſſe a preſence of hole Chriſte, God, and man, to the the fayth of the receauour. No, quoth he, you muſte beleue a Reall preſence in the ſacrament. In the ſacramente, quoth I? No I will not ſhute hym vppe, nor tye hym to it, otherwiſe then faithe ſee the and permitteth. If I woulde include Chriſtes reall preſence in the ſacrament, or tye hym to it otherwiſe, then to the Fayth of the receauer: then the wycked man ſhoalde receiue him, whiche I do not, nor will not beleue by goddes grace. More pitie, quoth he: but a man maye eaſelye ſee you make no preſence at all, and therefore you agree not therein with vsus. I make a preſence, quoth I, and a true preſēce: but to the fayth of the receauer. What, quoth one, that ſtode by, of Chriſtes verie bodie whiche died for vsus, yea, quoth I, euē of whole Chriſte: God, and man, to the faythe of hym that receaueth it. why, quoth maiſter Harpſfeld, this is nothing els, but to exclude the omnipotencie of God, and all kynde of myracle in the Sacrament. No, ꝙ I, I do not exclude his omnipotencie, but you rather doo it. For I beleue that Chriſte can accompliſhe his promiſe, the ſubſtaunce of bread and wine beinge their ſtill: as well as the accidents. And, quoth I, I counte it a greate miracle: that common bread ſhoulde be made a ſpiritual bread, that is, a bread ordeined of God, not for the foode of the bodye, but rather for the foode of the ſoule. For when we come to the ſacrament, we come not feade our bodies, and therfore we hauehave but a litle peice of bred: but we come to feade our ſoules by faith, whiche the wicked waunte: and therfore they receaue nothynge but Panem Domini as Iudas did, and Panem Dominum, as the other the Apoſtles did. The wicked, ſaithe maiſter Harpſfeld, do receiue the verie bodie of Chriſte, but not the grace of his bodie. No, quoth I, they receaue not the body, for it is no dead carkaſe. He y^t receaueth it: receiueth the ſpirite, whiche is not with out grace I wyne. Wel, quoth he, you hauehave very many errors. you counte y^e Maſſe for abhominacion, and yet ſaint Abroſſe ſaide maſſe. And ſo red oute of a boke written, a ſentence of ſainct Ambroſe to ꝓue it. Why, ſir, quod I, the maſſe, as it is now, was nothinge ſo in ſaint Ambroſe tyme. was not the moſt perte of the Canon, made ſithen by Gregorius, & Scolaſticus, and others. In ded, quoth he, a greate peice, of it was made as ye ſaye, by Gregorius, but Scholaſticꝰ was before S. Ambroſe tyme. I wene not, quoth I, howbeit I wyll not contend. Saint Gregorie ſaith, that the Apoſtles ſaid maſſe, with out Cannons, onelyonly with the lords praier. you ſaye true, quoth he, for the Canon is not the greateſte parte of the maſſe▪ The greateſt part, is the ſacrifice, eleuacion, tranſubſtantiacion and adoracion. I can awaye with none of thoſe, quoth I, No I thincke the ſame, quoth he. But yet Hoc facite telleth plain lye the ſacrifice of the churce▪ you conſider not well, quoth I, this worde ſacrifice, not diſcernynge betwixte the ſacrifice of the churche, and the ſacrifice for the churche. The ſacrifice of the Churche, is no propitiatorie ſacrifice: but a gratulatorie ſacrifice. The ſacrifice Chriſte hym ſelf offered: is the propitiatorie ſacrifice. And as for your Hoc facite is not referred to anye ſacrifyinge: but to the whole action, takynge, eatynge. you ſpeake nowe, quoth he, not learnedlye, for Chryſte made his ſupper, onelye to the .12. not admittinge his mother, or any of the ſeuentie diſciples to it. Nowe the Apoſtles doo ſignifie the prieſtes. I thincke, quoth I, that you ſpeake▪ as you would mē ſhoude vnderſtand it, for els you woulde not kepe the Cup awaye from the Laitie. We hauehave greate cauſe to thācke you, that you wil giuegive vsus the bread, for I perceaue you make it, as thoughe Chriſte had not cōman̄ded it to his whole church. Frō this talke he went to. ſhow me Eleuacion bringing out a place of Saint Baſilius de ſpiritu ▪ And I told him that I had red y^t place which ſemeth not to make of eleuatiō. But, ꝙ I, be it as it is, I hauehave ben in Priſon long, without bokes and all neceſſaries for ſtudie, and therfore I muſte omitte theſe thinges death draweth nye, & I by your leaue, muſt not leaue of to prepare for it. If I could do you good, quoth he, I woulde be right glad, either in ſoule or body for you are in a perellous caſe both waies. Sir, quoth I, I thāck you for your good wil. My cauſe is as it is: I thancke God it was neuer ſo wel with me: for death to me ſhall be life I truſte and hope in god. It were beſte for you to deſire maiſter Harpſfeld, quoth maiſter Creſſewell, y^t he mighte make ſute for you, for a time, to cōferre. VntoUnto whiche woordes Maiſter Harpſfeld ſaid: that he would doe the beſte he could, for he pitied my caſe verie ſore, Sir, quoth I, to deſire any bodie to ſewe for tyme for me, I neuer wil do it by godes helpe. For I am not wauerynge, nor I would not that anye bodye ſhould thincke, I were ſo. But if you hauehave the charitie and louelove towardes me, you pretend, and ther to doo thincke that I am in an errour: I thincke the ſame ſhoulde moue you to doo, as you woulde be done by: as you thincke of me: ſo do I of you, that you are farre out of the way, & not only thincke it, but alſo am therof aſſured. In this and ſuche lyke gentle talke we departed: he ſaing y^t he would pray for me, others willinge me, to deſire him, to ſue for me, whiche I did not. But I wiſhed hym as muche good as he did me. And as he was goinge and bad me farewell, he turneth againe & geueth me Ireneus, prayinge me to read ouer a certeine place in it, whiche thīg I told him I wold, although I had red it before. At the dore the wife of the houſe mete hym, & aſked hym how he had done. Forſothe Maiſters, quoth he, I fynd alwaies one maner of mā of him, as I found him, ſo I leaue him. I pray you ſir, quoth ſhe, do hym no hurte. No quoth he, but if I can I wil do hym good. At after diner the ſame daye, maiſter Clayden my keper, commeth vntounto me from the Erle of Darbye, with whome he had dyned beinge ſent for purpoſly, about me. Nowe after his cōming home, this was the ſome of hys talke. That the Erle would gladly hauehave me not to die. And therfore he would make ſute on my behalfe to y^e Queenes gighnes. Wherfore, quoth my keꝑ, you muſt tel me, what you wold hauehave him to do, y^t to morow I may brīg hym worde, as he hath required me. Marie, ꝙ I, M. Clayden I hope I ſhal nead litle to make many wordes in telling you my ſute, as I hartely thāke his lordſhip of his good wil, and zeale, y^t he beareth vntounto me: ſo you know I can not deſire any to make ſut for me. If of his own will he do ſue for ꝑdon, baniſhmē, ꝑpetual priſon, or what his pleaſure ſhalbe for me, I were to blame, if y^t I would take it vnthankefullye. Albeit I knowe deathe, and ſpedie diſpache were moſte well come vntounto me, Well, quoth he, I will tell hym to morowe, y^e thoughe you can not nor wil not make ſute, to any to ſue for you: yet you wil be content, If he on his lordſhipes good will will labour on your behalfe. yea, quod I, and to tell you truth, where I perceaue that others doo ſue for me, (meaninge Perciual, Creſſuel and maiſter Harpſfeld) I had rather my Lord of Darbye ſhoulde doo it: for that my frendes & the countrye mighte leſſe be offended at hym, bycauſe he maſte hauehave the burning of me. After this talke with my keper maiſter Clayden: there cōmeth one of the Queenes ſeruauntes and officers, (whoſe name I will not reherſe) whiche after a litle talke fel down on his knees, and with teares beſought me, for the paſſion of Chriſte: that I would a litle loke to my ſelf, to make ſome ſute, &c. For, quoth he, (ſwearing an othe) it will not be longe vntounto, before thou ſhalte be able to doo more good, then euer thou dideſte. But I ſhewing my ſelfe not vnthankefull for his good will: departed from hym, as one litle luſting to heare ſuche counſell. Of him I lerned, tweſdaye followinge, was the vttermoſt daye I ſhoulde tarrye here. Within an houre after this mānes departure frō me: the keper maiſter Clayden called me, ſayinge that he perceaued, howe that my frend Perciual had told him, that maiſter Harpſfeld had written to maiſter doctor Martin: to be a meanes to the Counſell for lōger tyme for me. Where vponupon, quoth he, I thincke it were beſte to ſend my Lord of Darbie worde of this to might: leſt he be preuēted. And I aunſwered thus. That as he thought good, ſo he mighte doo. But, quoth I, beware I hertelye praye, that you doo not tell my lord any thing, that I deſire this. For if you do, it will in y^e ende be more againſte you then with you. And he promiſed the ſame, and ſo departed oute of hande to the Court. VponUpon the .17. day (whiche was ſondaye) in the after nowne, Perciual Creſſe wel ſent me word by him that came firſte with him, that if I woulde make anye ſute my ſelfe, or wil any to doo for me. I might ſpead, but els, quoth he, nothing wil be done, as he p̄ſently hath receiued anſwere of my lord Chauncelor. wel, quoth I, I am at a pointe, and ſo toke my leaue, lokinge ſtill when the Sheriffes woulde come for me. For I had heard ouer might, that one of the Garde whiche was appointed to cōueye me down, into Lākiſhiere: had told one that they hade warning againſt to morowe for me.

Vppon the .18. daye (whiche was tweſdaye) I hearde that the write for my execuciō was called in again, and the Sheriffe of Lā kaiſhiere diſcharged of me for y^e preſente. And in the after nowne one of my Lorde of Darbis men brought me worde: howe that my lord had taken greate paines for me, and had kneled before, the Queene, and many more wordes, deſiring me ſom thing to ſe to my ſelfe now. But, quoth he, what, & how muche is done for you I can not tell, but this muche I thincke ſaith he, you ſhal hauehave your boks, and time ynough to peruſe them. Well, quoth I, I praye you hartelye, thancke my Lorde for hys good wil towardes me, I ſhal (as I hauehave done pray) y^t God woulde giuegive vntounto hym, as to my ſelfe, the which is all I can do. For doinge for my ſelfe, as I woulde be ſorye that my lord or you, ſhuld thincke any waueringe in me for my doctrine: ſo I would be lothe, but to doo all for my ſelfe, that I can do with a good cōſcience. And as for tyme, quoth I, & bokes, although I ſee it is but a lingering of the tyme: yet I am glad of it, in this reſpecte: y^t my lord, & others may know, I hold no opinion, but ſuch as I dare ſifte, and abide the reaſoning for, with any man. I truſt, you and many others ſhal ſe, that oure doctrine is true, & therefore dare and deſire to abide the light, and all mens lokynge on, where perchaunce it is bruted abrode, that we are altogether obſtinate: and cannot defend it by lernynge, after this talke, there was a prieſt called maiſter Couppage: which began to exhorte me to take the iniuries done vntounto me pacienlye. For, quoth he, I doubte not but if you wil come vntounto vsus: you ſhuld be more able to helpe manye, and your frendes alſo, then euer you were: bothe ſpirituallye and corporallye. If, quoth I, you kepe your maiſter Chriſte: I wil come vntounto you, but other wiſe I knowe you not. This and ſuch like talke we had for that preſente, the Erle of Darbye his man appointynge maiſter Clayden my keper, in the mornyng to come to my Lord.

VponUpon the .19. day, whiche was wedneſdaye, Maiſter Clayden came from my lord, and in his name aſked me, whether I would be contente to ſpake with the kinges confeſſor, and Alphonſus, a frier, & to ſend him worde. Sir, quoth I, you knowe, that as I deſire cō ferēce with no man: ſo I thancke God, I am not afraied to ſpeake with anye man: where vppon he ſent my Lord worde, as he ſaide. And ſo I herd nothing til the day followinge, howe that my Lorde of Darbye, had ſent backe again, two of his mē, which came to me, ſayinge that they were ſent to ſolicite my cauſe, but howe or what waye I could not lerne.

VponUpon the .21. daye, whiche was friday, the Archebiſhope of yorke, and the Byſhoppe of Chicheſter: came to the Counter to ſpeake with me. When I was come before them, they both, & ſpeciallye my Lord of yorke: vſed me verye gentlie, they would hauehave had me ſit downe, and bycauſe I woulde not: they alſo woulde not ſitt, ſo we all ſtode, & whether I woulde or no, they would neades I ſhould put on, not onelyonly my night cappe: but my vpper cappe alſo, ſayinge vntounto me, that obediēce was better then ſacrifice. Now thus ſtāding togither, my Lord of yorke begā to tel me, howe that they were not ſente to me, but of louelove and charitie we come to you. And I, quoth he, of olde acquaintaunce whiche I hauehave had woith you, more then my Lord of Chicheſter hath had. And ſo cōmended me of a godlye life &c cōcluding with a queſtion, how I was certain of ſaluaciō, & of my religion. Marie, quod I amittinge all formalities, ſaue y^t I thācked thē for their good wil, by the word of god, by the ſcriptures, I am certein of ſaluacion, and of my religion. Verye wel ſaid quod my Lord of yorke. But howe doo you knowe the worde of God and the ſcriptures but by the church? In dede my Lorde, quoth I, the churche was, and is a meane to bring a mā more ſpedely, to know the ſcriptures, and the woorde of God, as was the woman of Samaria was a meane y^t the Samaritains knew Chriſt, but as when they had herd hym ſpeake, they ſaid now we know, y^t he is Chriſt, not bycauſe of the woordes, but bycauſe we our ſelfes hauehave heard hym: ſo, quoth I, after we come to the hearing and reading of the ſcriptures ſhowed to vsus, and diſcerned by the church: we doo beleue them, and know them, not by cauſe the church ſaith they are the ſcriptures, but bicauſe they be ſo, beinge therof aſſured, by the ſame ſpirite whiche wrote and ſpake them▪ yea, quoth my lord of yorke, but you know in the Apoſtles time at the firſte, the word was not written. True, quoth I, if you meane it for ſome bokes, of the bokes of the newe Teſtamēt, but els, for the olde teſtament, Peter telleth vsus that we hauehave Firmiorem ſermonem Propheticum, a more ſure worde of prophecie. Not, quod I, that it is ſimplie ſo, but in reſpecte of the Apoſtles perſons, whiche beinge a liue and compaſſed with infirmitie: attributed to the worde written more firmitie, as wherewith no faulte coulde be founde, whereas, for the infyrmitye of their ꝑſons, men perchaūce might hauehave founde ſome faulte at there perchīng. Albeit in verie dede, no leſſe obedience & faith, ought to hauehave ben giuen to the one, then to the other, as being all of one ſpirite of truth. That place of Peter, quoth my Lorde of yorke, is not ſo to be vnderſtande of the worde of God written. yes ſir, quoth I, that it is and of none other. yea in dede, quoth my lord of Chicheſter, maiſter Bradford doth tel you y^e truth in that pointe. Well, quoth my Lorde of yorke, you knowe that Ireneus and others, do magnify much the churche, and alledge the Churche againſte heretickes, and not the ſcriptures. True, quoth I, for they had to do, with ſuche heretickes: as dyd denye the ſcriptures, and yet dyd magnifie the Apoſtles: that they were inforſed, to vſe thoſe churches wherin the Apoſtles had taught, and that churche ſtil had receiued the ſame doctrine. you ſpeake the verie truethe, quoth my Lorde of Chicheſter, for the heretickes did refuſe all ſcriptures, excepte it were a peice of Lukes, goſpell. Then quoth I, the alledginge of the churche, can not be primarlye, or principallye vſed againſte me, whiche am ſo farre from denyinge of the ſcriptures, that I appele vntounto them vtterlye, as to the onelye iudge. Io .xii. A pretye matter, quoth my Lorde of yorke, that you will take vppon you to iudge the Churche. I praye you where was your …hurche this manye yeres? for the Churche of Chryſte is Catholicke and viſible. Hytherto my Lorde, quoth I, I doo not iudge the churche, when I diſcerne it, from that congregacion, & thoſe whiche be not in it. And I neuer denied the church to be Catholike and viſible, althoughe at ſome times, it is more viſible thē at ſom. I praye you, quoth my Lorde of Chicheſter, tel me where the churche, which alowed your doctrine: was this .iiii.C. yeres▪ I will tel you my Lorde, quoth I, or rather you ſhall tell it you ſelfe. If you will tell me where the church was in Helias time, when Helias ſaid that he was lefte alone. That is no aunſwere, quoth my Lorde of Chicheſter. I am more ſorye you ſaye ſo, quoth I: But this will I tell you lordſhipp, that the ſame eies, wherewith a mā might hauehave eſpied the church thē, yf you nowe had them: you would not ſaye it were no anſwere. The fault why the churche is not ſene of you, is, not bycauſe the churche is not viſible: but bicauſe your eyes are not clere ynoughe to ſe it. you are much deceiued, quoth he, to make ſuch a collation, betwine the churche then, & now. Verie well ſpeks my Lord (quoth the Byſhoppe of yorke) for Chriſtes ſaith, Edificabo eccleſiam meam, I wyll buylde my churche, and not I do, or hauehave buyld it, but I will build it. My lord quoth I, Peter taught me to make this collacion, ſaying: as in the people there was falſe Prophetes, whiche were muche in eſtima…ion afore Chriſtes comming: ſo ſhall there be falſe teachers nowe, and verye manye ſhall followe them. And as for your futurtence I hope your grace, quod I, wil not exclude thereby Chriſts church not to hauehave ben before▪ but rather that there is no buyldinge in the Churche, but by Chriſtes woorke onelye. For Paule, and Apollo, be but waterers. In good faith maiſter Bradford, quoth my my lord of Chicheſter, I am ſorye, to ſee you ſo litle to mind the churche. He taketh vponupon him (as they al doo) to iudge the church, quod my Lorde of yorke. A man ſhall neuer come to certentie, that doth as they doo. My Lorde, quoth I, take me beſeche you in good part, I ſpeake ſimplie what I thincke: and I deſire reaſon to aunſwere my obiections your affections & ſorowes can not by rules. If that you conſider the ende, and cauſe of my condempnacion: I can not thincke, but that it ſhoulde ſo… thinge moue your honours. you knowe it well ynoughe, for you herd it, no matter was layed againſte me, but what was gathered vppon myne one confeſſion. Bycauſe I denyed tranſubſtantiacion, and the wycked to receaue Chriſtes body in the Sacramente: therfore I was condempned, and excommunicate, but not of the Church: although the pillers of the ſame (as they be taken) dyd it. No, quoth my Lorde of Chicheſter, I herd ſay: that the cauſe of youre priſonemente was, for that you exhorced the people, to take the ſword in the one hande, and the matocke in the other. I neuer ment any ſuche thynge, nor ſpeake any thynge in that ſorte my lord, quoth I. yea quoth my Lorde of Yorke, you behaued your ſelfe before the Counſell, ſo ſtoutlye at the firſt, that you woulde defend the Religion then, and therefore worthelye were you puniſhed. your grace, quoth I, did here me aunſwere my Lorde Chauncellor in that pointe. But put the caſe I had ben ſo ſtote, as they and your grace make it: was not the lawes of y^e realme on me ſide then? wherfore vniuſtlie I was puniſhed. OnelyOnly tranſubſtantiacion, which was had on myne owne confeſſion: was the thing, on which my lorde Chauncellor proceded. you denye the preſence, quoth my lord of yorke. I do not, quoth I, to the faith of the worthy receauer. Why quoth he, what is that? thē to ſaye that Chriſte lyeth not of the alter. No my lorde, quoth I, in dede I beleue not ſuche a preſence. I ſemeth, quoth my Lorde of Chicheſter, that you hauehave not red Chryſoſtome, for he poīteth it. Of truth my lord, quoth I, hitherto I hauehave ben kepte well ynough withoute bokes, howbeit this I remember of Chriſoſtome, that he lyeth vppon the altar, as the Seraphins do, touch our lips with y^e coules of the altar in heauen, whiche is an Hiperbolicall locucion, as you knowe Chriſoſtome floweth with them. It is to euident quoth my lord of yorke, that you are gon to farre, but let vsus come againe to y^e churche, out of the whiche you are excommunicated, I am not, quoth I, my lord: Although they whiche ſeme to be in the churche, and of the churche, hauehave excommuninicate me, as the pore blind man was Ihon .9. I hope Chriſt receueth me. you deceaue your ſelfe, ꝙ he, and here muche was ſpoken of excommunicacion. At the laſte, I ſaid my Lorde, I pray you beare with me, that whiche I ſhall ſimplye ſpeake before you. Aſſuredly, quoth I, as I thinck you did well, to departe from the Romiſhe churche: ſo I thincke you hauehave done wickedly to couple vsus to it againe, for you can neuer proue it, which you make the mother Churche to be chriſtes churche. Oh maiſter Bradford, quoth my lorde of Chicheſter, you were but a childe when this matter began. I was a yonge man then, cōming from the vniuerſitie, went with the woorlde, but I tell you it was alwaies agaīſt my ſtomack▪ I was but a child then, quoth I▪ how be it as I told you I thincke you hauehave done euill, for nowe we are come to the wicked mā, which ſitteth in the Temple of god▪ that is in the churche, for it cannot be vnderſtād of the Mahumet or any out of the churche, but of ſuche as beare rule in the church▪ See, quoth my lord of yorke, howe you builde your faith vpō ſuch places of ſcripture as are moſte obſcure, to deceaue your ſelfe, as thoughe you were in the church where you are not. Well my lorde, quoth I, thoughe I might by your frutes iudge of you and others: yet will not I vtterly condempne you for euer: oute of the churche, for perchaunce you ſinne of ignoraunce▪ & if I were in your caſe, I thincke not, quoth I, that I ſhould not cō dēpne him vtterly y^t is of my faith in the Sacrament knowinge as you know, that at y^e leaſt .viii.C. yeres after Chriſts, as my lord of Duriſme writteth: It was free to beleue, or not to beleue tranſubſtātiatiō. This is a toye, quoth he that you hauehave found out of your owne brayne, as thoughe a man not beleuing as the churche doth: That is tranſubſtantiacion were of the Churche he is an hereticke, and ſo none of the churche, quoth my lord of Chicheſter, that dothe hold any doctrine, againſte the definition of the Churche, as nowe you do hold againſt tranſubſtan…atiō. And he brought furth Ciprian whiche was no Hereticke, thoughe he beleued rebaptizinge of them, whiche were baptized of heretickes, bicauſe he held it, before the churche had defined it, where as if he had holden it after then had he ben an hereticke. Oh my lord, quod I, wil you condempne to the deuil any man that beleueth truely, the .12. article of y^e faith, wherein I take the vnitie of Chriſtes churche, to conſiſte, al thoughe in ſome pointes, he beleue not the definitions of that, whiche you cal the churche. If I ſhall ſpeake to you franckelye, I doubte not but he y^t holdeth ſyncerlye the articles of oure belefe, thought in other thinges he diſſent from your definitions, yet he ſhalbe ſaued. yea, quod they both, this is your doctrine. No, quoth I, it is Paule, whiche ſaith, that if they hold the foundacion Chriſte, thoughe they build vppon hym. Hey ſtrawe and ſtouble: yet they ſhalbe ſaued. Lord god, quoth my lord of yorke, howe you delite to leyne to ſo hard, and darke places of ſcripture, yea, quoth my Lord of Chicheſter, I will ſhewe you howe that Luther doth excommunicate zwinglius for this matter, ſo red a place of Luther, making for his purpoſe. My lord, quoth I what Luther writteth, as you muche paſſe not of, ſo do I in this caſe, my faith is not build of Luther zwinglius, or Ecolampadius in this point. And in dede to tel you truelye, I neuer red anye of their woorkes in this matter. As for their perſons, what ſo euer theire ſayinges were, yet doo I thincke aſſuredly, that they were and are gods children, and ſainctes with him. Wel, quoth my lord of yorke, you are out of the cōmunion of y^e church, I am not, quoth I. For it cōſiſteth, & is in faith. Loo, quoth he, howe you make your churche inuiſible, that would hauehave the comunion of it, to conſiſte in faithe, yea, and like your grace, quoth I, for to hauehave cōmuniō with y^e churche, neadeth not viſibleneſſe of it, cōmunion conſiſteth, (as I ſaid) in faith, and not in exforior ceremonies, as appeareth both by Paule, whiche woulde hauehave Vnam fidem, & by Ireneus to Victor for y^e obſeruaciō of Eſter, ſaing that Diſſonantiam ieiunii ſhould not Rumpere conſonantiam fide. That ſame place, quoth my lord of chicheſter, hath often euen wounded my cō ſcience, becauſe we diſceuered our ſelfes frō the Sea of Rome. Wel, quoth I, God forgeue you, for I thincke you hauehave done euyll, to bringe England thyther againe, your honors know, I am plain, & therfore I beſeche you beare with me. Here my Lord of yorke toke a boke of paper, of common places out of his boſome, and red a peice of Saint Auguſtine Contra Epiſtolam fundamenti, howe that there were many thinges, that did hold ſaint Auguſtine in the boſome of the church, conſent of people and natiōs, aucthoritie cōfirmed with miracles, nouriſhed with hope, increaſed wyth charitie, eſtabliſhed with ātiquitie. Beſides this: there holdethe me in the churche, ſaith ſaint Auguſtine ſtil, the ſucceſſions of prieſtes, from Peters ſeate vntil this preſent Biſhoppe. Laſt of all the verye name of Catholicke doctrine dothe holde me. Loo, quoth he, howe ſaye you to this of Saint Auguſtine, point… me oute your churche thus. My Lord, quoth I, this of ſaint Auguſtine maketh as muche for me as for you, althoughe I might aunſwere, that al theſe, if they had ben alledged to bee ſo firme as you make them, they might hauehave ben alledged againſte Chriſt, and his Apoſtles, for ther was the lawe, and ceremonies conſented in by the people, confirmed with miracles, antiquitie, and continual ſucceſſion of byſhoppes frō Aarons tyme, vntil that preſent: In good faith, quod my lord of Chicheſter, maiſter Bradford, you marke to muche the ſtate of the churche, before Chriſts comming: Sir, quod I, therein I do but as Peter teacheth .2. Pet. 2. and Paule verye oftē. you would gladly hauehave your church heare, verye glorious, and as a moſt pleaſante Ladie, but as a moſte pleaſante ladye, but as Chriſtes ſaith, Beatus eſt quicunque non fuerit offenſus per me: ſo maye his churche ſaye, bleſſed are they that are not offended at me. yea, quoth I, my lord you thinck none is of the church, but ſuch as ſuffer perſecutiō. what I thincke, quod I, god knoweth. I pray your grace, iudge me by anye wordes and ſpeaking, and marke what Paule ſaythe. Omnes qui volunt, all that wil liue godly in chriſt Ieſu, muſt ſuffer perſecutions. Sometime Chriſt church hath reſte here, but commonlye, quoth I, it is not ſo. And ſpecially towardes the end, her forme wil be more vnſemlye. But what ſaye you to ſainct Auguſtin, quoth he, where is youre Churche, that hath the conſent of people & nations? Mary, quod I, al people & natiōs y^t be gods people, hauehave cōſented with me & I w^t them in the doctrine of faith. Loo, quoth he, howe you goo about to ſhifte of all thinges. No my lord, quoth I, I meane ſimplye, and ſo ſpeake god knoweth. S. Auguſtī quoth he, dooth here talke of ſucceſſiō, euen frō Peters ſea: yea, & like your grace, ꝙ I, that ſea, thē was nothīg ſo much corrupt as it is now, Wel, quod he, you alwaies iudge y^e church. No my lord, quod I. As chriſts ſhep diſcerne chriſts voice, but they iudged not it: ſo they diſcerne the churche, but not iudge her. yes that you do ſath he… No & like your grace, quoth I, ful wel may a mā doubte of y^e Romiſh church, for ſhe obaeth not Chriſts voice, as chriſts true church doth, wherin quod he, ī latē ſeruis, ꝙ I, & robbeth the Laytye of Chriſtes cuppe in the Sacramentes. Why quoth my lord of Chicheſter, Latten ſeruice was in England when the Pope was gon. True, quoth I, tyme was when the Pope was awaye, but not all Poperie as in Kyng Henrys dayes. Latten ſeruice, quoth my lord of yorke was appointed to be ſonge & had in y^e Queare where only were. Clerici, that is ſuch as vnderſtād laten, y^e people ſitting in y^e bodie of y^e churche prayinge their owne priuat prayers, and this, quoth he, maye well be yet ſene, by making of the Chaunſell and Quere, ſo as the people could not come in, or heare them: yea qut my lorde, quoth I, both in Chriſoſtomes tyme, and alſo in the laten churche in ſainct Ieromes tyme, as he writteth in the preface I trowe to the Galathians, al the church ſaith, Amen. Aunſwering againe mightely Amen: whereby we maye ſee that y^e prayers were made, that both the people herd them and vnderſtod them: you are to blame, quoth my Lorde of Chicheſter to ſaye that the churche robbeth the people of the Cup. Well my lord, quod I, turne it as pleaſe you, all men knowe that the Laitye hath none of it: In dede: ꝙ I, I would wiſhe the churche would defyne againe that they might hauehave it for my ꝑt, if god make free, quoth I, who cā define to make bound generallie. Well, quoth my lord of yorke, maiſter Bradford, we leſe but labour, for you ſeke to put awaye al thīgs y^t be told you to your good, your churche no man can knowe, yes that you maye well, quoth I. I pray you whereby: ſaid he, forſoth Chriſoſtome ſhoeth it. Tantummodo per ſcripturas onelyonly by the ſcriptures, and thus ſpeaketh he verye often times togyther, as you well knowe, quod I▪ In ded, quod he, that is of Chriſoſtome In opere imperfecto, whiche maye be doubted of the thinge whereby the church may be knowen beſte is ſucceſſiō of Byſhoppes. No my lord, quod I, Lyra ful well writteth vppon Matthew, that Eccleſia non conſiſtit in hominibus ratione Poteſtatis ſecularis aut eccleſiaſtice, Sedin hominibus in quibus eſt noti…ia Vera et confeſſio Fidei et veritatis. And in Hilarius time, you know he writteth to Auxcentius that the Churche dyd rather Deliteſcere in cauernis, them Eminere, in primariis ſedibus. Here commeth one of their ſeruauntes, and tolde them that my lorde of Duriſme taried for them at Maiſter yorkes houſe, for inded it was paſte .12. of the clocke, vppon a .4. howres they taryed with me. And after that there mā was come, they put vp there written bokes of common places, and ſaide they lamented my caſe, and ſo wiſhing me to red ouer a boke, whiche dyd doctor Crome good, as my Lorde of Chicheſter ſayde and wyſhyng me good in words, they wente there wayes, and I to my priſon.

Vppon mondaye, whiche was the .22. of Februarie about .8. of y^e clock in y^e morning which was an howre ſoner then was appointed. There came to the Coūter, where I was in priſon to Spanniſhe friers. Alphonſus and the kings Confeffor (as they ſaid) and with them twoo prieſtes, whiche were Engliſhe men, as I wene, & when the howſe was voyded of other companye: I was called donne, & beinge come before them a ſtoole was pouled out, and I bidden ſit doune: whiche thinge I did after a ſigne of ciuilitie geuen to them. Nowe thus ſitting beginneth the Confeſſor to ſpeake in latten, and aſke me in latten (for al our talke was in latten whether) I had not ſene nor herd of one Alphonſus, y^t had writen againſt hereſies. And I aunſwered that I did not know him. well, quoth he, this man (pointing to Alphonſꝰ) is he. Verye good, quoth I. After this he beginneth to tell me, howe that of louelove and charitie, by the meanes of the Erle of Darbye, they come to me, bycauſe I deſired to conferre with them. And I anſwered that I neuer deſired there cōming nor to conferre with them, or any other, but, quoth I, ſeing you are come of charitie, as you ſaye, I cannot but thanckfully acknowledge it, and as for conference, though I deſire it not: yet, quoth I, I wyl not refuſe to talke with you, if you will. Than began Alphonſus to tel me, that it were requiſite I did pray vntounto god, that I mighte followe the direction of gods ſpirite, and as he ſhould enſpire me, not being addicte to min owne ſelfe, will, and with: where vpō I made a prayer, & beſaught god to directe al our wille words, and workes, as the willes, words and workes of his children for euer, duplicate page duplicate page yea, quoth Alphonſus, you muſte praye with your herte. For if you ſpeake but with tong onelyonly God, will not giuegive you his grace. Sir, quoth I. doo not iudge leſte you be iudged, you hauehave hearde my wordes now charitie would hauehave you to leaue the iudgement of the hart to god, you muſt, quoth Alphonſus be as it were a newter, & not wedded to your ſentence. But as one ſtandinge in doubte, praye and beleue, & be redye to receaue what god ſhall inſpire, for, quoth he, in vaine laboureth our tong to ſpeake els: Sir, quoth I, my ſentence if you meane it for Religion muſt not be in a doubting, or vncertein: as I thācke god, it is not euen for that where in. I am condēpned, I hauehave no cauſe to doubt. but rather to be moſt certein of it, & therfor I pray god to confirme me more in it, for it is his truthe. And therfore bycauſe it may abid y^e light, I dare be bolde to hauehave it loke on, & cōferre it with you or any man in reſpecte wherof I am glad of your cōming & thācke you for your cōming, althoughe (as I ſaid) I deſired not your cōminge, nwas willing of your cōming, or cold be cōtēt of it otherwiſe. Why, quod he, what is y^• matter wherefore you were condempned, for we know not, ſir quod I, ī priſō hauehave I ben all moſt two yeres, I neuer trāſgreſſed any of y^e lawes: wherfore I might iuſtlye be puniſhed. But becauſe I frāckly confeſſed, whereof I repēt not my faith concerninge the ſacrament being demaūded in theſe two points. One that there is no trāſubſtantiaciō, the other that the wicked doo not receaue Chriſtes bodie,▪ Lett vsus quoth, he loke a litle on the firſte, do you not beleue chriſts preſence raallye and corporallye in the forme of bread? No, quoth I. I doo beleue that there Chriſt is preſent to the faith of the worthye receauer, as there is preſent bread and wyne to the ſences, and outwarde man, as for any ſuche preſence of including and placing Chriſte, I beleue not, nor dare not do. Why, quoth he, I am ſure you beleue Chriſtes natural body is circumſcriptible. And here he made muche a do, of two natures of Chriſt, howe that the one is eueryevery where, & the other is in his proper place, demaunding queſtiōs here about whiche I aunſwered with etiam, that is affirmatiuelye, bycauſe they were ſuche, as no wiſe man would hauehave ſpente any ſuch tyme about as he did, for I neuer herd of any, that woulde hauehave denyed them. Nowe then, commeth he to this concluſion (whiche I prayed hym, he woulde make: for els he had forgotten) howe that becauſe chriſtes body was circumſcriptible concerninge the humanitye in in heauen, therfore it was ſo in the bread. This hanges not togither, quod I, becauſe you are here. Ergo you are at Romme, it is out of Fraunce, bycauſe chriſtes body is in heauen. Io. it is in the Sacramēt vnderunder the forme of bread. No wiſe man wil graunt it, quoth I. why, quoth he, you wil beleue nothing but that which is expreſely ſpoke, in the ſcriptures, yes ſyr, quoth I, I will beleue what ſo euer you ſhall by demonſtracions out of the ſcriptures declare vntounto me, he is obſtinate ſaieth he to his fellow: But, quoth he, to me is not god able to do it. yes ſyr, quoth I But heare the queſtiō is of gods will, and not of his powre: Why, quoth he. Doth he not ſay plainlye this is my bodye? yes, quod I, and I denye it not, but that it is to the faith of the worthie receuer. To faith, quoth he? howe is that? Forſothe ſyr, quoth I, as I hauehave no tong to expreſſe it: ſo I know you hauehave no eares to heare and vnderſtād it, for faith ſeyth more, then man can vtter, yea, but, quod he, I can tel all that I beleue, you beleue not muche then, quoth I. For if you beleue the ioies of heauen: if you beleue no more then you can tell, you wyll not muche deſire to come thyther, for as the mynde is more capable and receauable then the mouth, ſo it conceaueth more then the tonge can expreſſe, Chriſte ſayth, it is hys bodie, quoth he. And ſo ſaye I after a certein maner, quoth I: After a certein maner, quoth hee that is after another maner then it is in heauen, ſaint Auguſtin, quoth I telleth it more plainlye, that it is Chriſtes bodye, after the ſame maner circuncyſion was the Couenaunte of God, and the ſacrament of faith, is faith, or to make it more plaine, as Baptiſme, and the water of baptiſme is regeneration. Verye wel ſaid, quoth he, Baptiſme and the water therof is a ſacrament of gods grace & ſprit in the water, cloſing the baptiſme. No ſyr, quoth I, away with your incloſing on the ſame ſorte chriſts bodye is in the bread, on whiche ſorte the grace and ſpirite of God is in the water. In y^e water, quod he: is gods grace by ſignificacion: ſo is the bodye in the breade, quoth I, in the Sacrament, you are muche deceaued, quoth he, y^t make no difference beetwene the ſacramētes that be ſtāderes, and the Sacramētes that are traunſeuntes, and paſſers by. As for example, the ſacramente of Order whiche you denye, thoughe ſaint Auguſtine affirme it, is ſtanderd although the ceremonie be paſte. But in baptiſme ſo ſone as the bodie is waſhen, the water ceſſeth to be a ſacrament. True good ſyr, quoth I. And ſo it is in the lordes ſupper, no longer then it is in vſe, is Chriſtes ſacrament. Here was maiſter Alphonſus wounderfullye chafed, and ſpeake (as often he had done before) ſo: that y^e hole houſe dyd ringe againe with an Echo. He hath a great name of lerning. But ſurely he hath litle pacience. If I had ben any thynge whete: one houſe could not hauehave kepte vsus bothe. At the lenght he cometh to that point, that I could not find in y^e ſcripture, baptiſme, and the Lords ſupper, to hauehave any like ſimilitude togither. And here (lord god) what aray he mad, how that we would receaue nothinge but ſcripture: & yet we are able to proue nothing by the ſcripture, Father, ꝙ I, for ſo I called him, God forgiue me if I dyd amyſſe, be paciente, and you ſhall ſee, y^t by the ſcripture I will finde baptiſme and the Lords ſupper, coupled togither. No, quoth he, that canſt thou neuer doo, let me ſee one texte of it, and a great ado he made. At the lenght: ſyr, quoth I, Paule ſayeth, that as we are baptized into one bodie: ſo we are Potati in Vno ſpiritu, we hauehave dronken of one ſpirite, meaninge it of the Cuppe in the Lordes ſupper. Paule hath no ſuch wordes quod he▪ yes that he hath, quoth I. I trowe he hath not, quoth the kinges confeſſor. GiueGive me a Teſtament, quoth I, and I wil ſhowe it to you: ſo a prieſt that ſate by thē gaue me his teſtamente, & I ſhowed them the plaine texte. Here was nowe lokinge one vponupon an other, finallye this ſimple ſhifte was founde: that Paule ſpake not of the ſacramēt. Wel, ſir quod quoth I, thoughe the texte be plaine, yet I wene the fathers do expoūd it ſo, eſpecially (except my memorie faile me:) Chriſoſtome doth it. Here I ſeing thē blancke: I began to tel them howe I had byn handled in priſon, with oute boke, paper, pen, yucke, and howe vniuſtly I had ben handled, and prayed them, that as they tolde me their comminge was to do me good: ſo they woulde doo it, and not to do me hurte, whiche thyng they much marked not, becauſe of the foyle they had, which I would hauehave ſuppreſſed. Alphonſus therfore whiche had the Teſtamente in his hande, and turned ouer leafe by leafe: at the lenght he commeth to the .5. to the Corinthiens: and there red howe that he was giltye, whiche made no difference of the lordes bodie, yea ſyr, quoth I, but therwith he ſayeth, he that eateth of of the bread, callinge it bread ſtil, and that, after conſecraciō as you cal it. And ſo brought furth the ſentence of the .10. to the Corinthe: the breade whiche we breake. &c. Oh, quoth he, how ignoraunt are you which knowe not that thinges retaine the names they had after their cō uerſion: as Moyſes Rood. And here they called for a Bible, and ſo was all moſte a quarter of an houre, before he could find out the place, finding faulte at the Bible: bycauſe it was Vataples Bible. At the lenght when he had found it: lord God howe he triumphed but I cooled the heate furthwith for ſyr, quoth I, there is mencion made of the conuerſion, as well as the ſame appered to the ſence, but, quoth I, here you cannot fynd it ſo, finde me one worde how the bread is conuerted: and I will then ſaye, you bringe ſome matter, that maketh for you. At theſe wordes he was troubled, & at the lenght, he ſaid, howe that I hanged on mine owne ſence. No, quoth I, that doo I not. For I will bringe you furth (for .viii.C. yeres after Chriſte) the fathers of the church, to cōfirme this which I ſpake. No, quoth he, you hauehave the churche againſte you. I hauehave not quoth I, chriſt church againſt me. yes y^t you hauehave ſayth he. And ſo aſked me what the church was. Marie, quoth I, Chriſts wife, the cheare, and ſeate of veritie. Is ſhe viſible, quoth he. ye that ſhe is, quoth I, if that you wil put on the ſpectacles of gods word to loke on her. This churche, quoth he, hath defyned the contrarye, and that will I proue by all the good fathers continuallye, frō Chriſtes Aſcencenſion, euer, for .15.C. yeres at y^e leaſte, cōtinually. What, will you proue ſo quoth I, tranſubſtantiation? yea, quoth he, that y^e bread is turned īto Chriſts bodie. you ſpeake more then you can do quod I. That do I not quod he. Then quod I. I wil giuegive place. Wil you beleue quod he. Beleue▪ ꝙ I▪ is gods gift, therfore cannot I ꝓmiſe, but I tel you, quod I, that I wil giuegive place, & I hope ſhal beleue gods truth, alwaies ſo good is he. Here he foūd a grreat faulte w^t me, y^t I would not deſerne betwixte Habitum et actum, as though Actus, which he called credulitie, had ben in our powre, but this he let paſſe, & cōmeth againe, aſking me, if he could proue it, as he ſaid: whether that I would giuegive place. yea ꝙ I, that I wil. Here was called for, paper, pen and yncke, to writte. And then I ſaid, what and if that I proue it you, continuallye for .viii.C. yeres after Chriſte, at the leaſt, the ſubſtabnce of bred to remayne in the Sacrament, by the teſtimonie of the Fathers: what will you do, quod I? I will giuegive place, quod he, with this, paper came in. Then ſaid I, writte you, howe that you wyll gyue place, if I ſo proue, & I wil write, that I wyll gyue place yf you ſo proue. Bycauſe you are the aunciente, you ſhall hauehave the preeminaunce. Lord God howe angry he was nowe, and ſaid that he came not to lerne at me, & ſo ſaide here is two witneſſes (meaning it of the two priſtes) and they be ſufficiedt. And ſo here about we had much ado to none effecte: but to a plaine ſcolding, if I had not giuē place to the furor of Alphonſus, for he was verye teſtie and haſtie, and here he diſpreaſed Bucer, and all that praiſed hym, with muche other talke. At the lenght, the confeſſor aſked me of the ſeconde queſtion what it was. Sir, quoth I, that the wicked men receaue not Chriſtes bodie in the ſacrament, as Sainte Auguſtin ſpeaketh of Iudas, that he receaued Panem domini but not panem dominū. S. Auguſtin ſayth not ſo, quoth Alphōſus. yes y^t doth he, quoth I, & ſo they roſe vp, & talked no more of that matter, but aſked me how they ſhould get me all the fathers and old aucthors, that proue and affirme the bread to be turned into Chriſtes bodie. Sir, quoth I, you maye ſone doo it, howbeit bycauſe you ſhall not trouble youre ſelf: if I maye hauehave my bokes, I nead no more but notes of y^e places. Thus they went their waies, howe they brooked my talke: I cā not tell, for they bad me not farewell. After they were gon, commeth one of the prieſtes, and willed me not to be ſo obſtinate. Sir quoth I, be not you ſo wauering. In all the ſcriptures cannot you find me non eſt panis. yes thst I can, quoth he, in .5. places. Then will I eate your boke, quoth I, ſo the boke was opened, but no place founde, and he wente his waye ſmiling. God helpe vsus.

VponUpon the .21. of Marche, by the meanes of one of y^t Erle of Darby his men, lefte behind my lorde, his maiſter, for y^e ſoliting of my cauſe as he ſaid to me: there came to the Coūter to diner, one maiſter Collior, ones warden of Maūcheſter, & the ſaid ſeruaūt of y^e Erle of darbie, of whome I lerned y^e maiſter doctor Weſtone Deane of weſtm̄, would be with me in y^• after none aboute .2. of the clocke, or before. At diner therfore when the ſayd warden dyd diſcommend kynge Edwarde, and went about to ſett furth the aucthoritie of the Pope, whiche I with ſtode, defendinge the kinges faith, that it was Catholike, and that the aucthoritie of the Byſhoppe of Rome his ſupremycie was vſurped, bringing furth the teſtimonie of Gregorie which calleth y^e name of ſupreame head to be a title of y^t foriner to an techriſt: a woman priſoner was brought in, where vpō I toke occaſiō to riſe frō the table, & ſo went to my priſon Chāber to begge of god grace, and helpe therin, continuing there ſtil vntil I was called down to ſpeake which maiſterſter Weſton. So ſoone as I came into the hall: maiſter weſton verye gentlie toke me by the hand, & aſked me how I did, with ſuch other talke. At y^e lenght he willed auoidaunce of the chāber, ſo they all went out, ſaue maiſter weſton himſelf, maiſter Collior, y^e Erle of Darbie his ſeruaūt, y^t ſubdeane of we wm̄, the keꝑ maiſter Clayden, & the ꝑſon of the churche wher the Counter is. Nowe then he beginneth to tel me, how y^t he was often mynded to hauehave come vntounto me, beinge therto deſired of the Erle of Darby and, quod he, after that I perceaued by his man, that you could be cōtented rather to ſpeake with me, then any others: I could not but come to do you good if I cā, for hurt be ſure I wil not. Sir quoth I. When I perceued by the reporte of my lord ſeruaunte, that you did beare me good will more (as he ſaid) thē any other of your ſorte: I told him thē, that therfore I could be better contente & more willing to talke with you, if you ſhould come vntounto me. This did I ſay, quoth I, other wiſe I deſired not your comminge. Well, quoth he, nowe I am come to talke with you, but before we ſhal entre into any talke, certein principlis we muſte agre vppon, whiche ſhalbe this daies worke. Firſte, quoth he, I ſhal deſire you to put awaye all vayne glorie, and not to holde any thinge for the praiſe of the world. Sir, quoth I, Auguſtine maketh that in dede a peice of the definition of an hereticke, whiche if I can not put awaye cleane (for I thincke there wil a ſpice of it remayne in vsus, as longe as this fleſhe liueth) yet I promiſſe you by the grace of god, that I purpoſſe not to yeld to it, god I hope will neuer ſuffer it to bare rule in them, that ſtriue there againſte, & deſire all the dregges of it vtterly driuen out of vsus. I am gladde. quoth he, to here you ſaye ſo, although in ded, quoth he. I thīcke you do not ſo muche eſteme it, as others doo. Secondly I would deſire you that you wil put away duplicate page duplicate page ſingularitie in your iudgement & opiniōs, ſyr, quod I, god forbed y^t I ſhould ſticke to any ſingularitie or priuat iudgement in godes religion. Hitherto I hauehave not deſired it, neither do, nor mind at any time, to hold any other doctrine then is publicke, & Catholicke, vnderſtāding catholicke, as good men do, according to gods worde. Very wel, quod he, this is a good dayes woorke, I hope to do you good: and therfore nowe thirdly, I ſhal pray you to write me Capita of thoſe thinges, where vppon you ſtand in the Sacrament, and to ſende them to me, betwixte this and wedneſdaye nexte, vntil whiche tyme, yea vntil I come to you againe, be aſſured that you are with oute all perill of death. Of my fidelitie I warraunte you, therfore awaye with all dubitacions &c. Sir, quod I, I wil write to you the groundes I …ene to, in this matter. As for death if it come: well come be it, this whiche you require of me, ſhalbe no great let to me therin. you knowe ſaith he, that Saint Auguſtin was a Manicean, yet was he conuerted at the lenght: ſo I hauehave good hope of you. Sir, quod I, becauſe I wil not flater you: I would you ſhoulde flatlye knowe, that I am euen ſetteled in the religion wherfore I am condempned. yea but, quod he, if it be not the truth, and if you ſee euident matter to the contrarie, will not you then giuegive place? God forbed, quod I, but that I ſhould alwayes gyue place to the truthe. I would hauehave you to pray ſo, quod he. ſo I doo quoth I, and that he wil more and more cōfirme me in it, as I thācke god he hath done, and doth: yea, but, quoth he, praye with a condiciō if you be in it. No. ſyr, quod I, I cānot pray ſo, bycauſe I am ſetteled and aſſured of his truthe. Wel, quoth he, as the lerned byſhoppe aunſwered Saint Auguſtines mother that thoughe he was obſtinat: yet the teares of ſuche a mother coulde not but wene her ſonne: ſo, quod he, I hope your prayers. (For min eyes did ſhowe that I had wepte in prayer) cannot but be herde of God thoughe not as you woulde, yet as beſte ſhall pleaſe god, do you not, quod he, remember the hyſtorie hereof, yes ſyr, quoth I. I thincke it to be of ſaincte Ambroſe. No, quod he, that it is not, and here he woulde hauehave layed a wager: and began to triumphe ſayinge. As you are ouerſeen herein, ſo you are in the other thinges. Well ſyr, quoth I. I will not contend with you for the name, this I remember ſainct Auguſtin writteth in his Confeſſions. After this talke he begon to tel: howe that the people were by me procured to withſtand the Queene, but I badde him hange me vppe, as a traytour, and a theif: if euer I encouraged any to rebellion, whiche thinge my keper and others that were there of the prieſts affirmed on my behalf. So muche talke there was at Epheſios, bowe he had ſaued men goinge in the carte to be hanged, ſuche like. The ende was this, that I ſhoulde ſend? vntounto hym, capita doctrine of the ſupper, and after wedneſday he woulde come vntounto me again, and thus departed he, after that he had droncken to me in beare and wine, I omitte here, talke of Oxford, of bokes of German writters, of the feare of death, and ſuche other talke whiche are to no purpoſe.

VponUpon the .28. of Marche came to the Counter Doctor Pendelton, and with hym Maiſter Collior, ones warden of Maunchecheſter, and Stephen Beiche. After ſalutacions, maiſter Pendelton begā to ſpeake to me, that he was ſorrie for my trouble. And further, quod he, after that I did know you could becōtēt to talk w^t me I made the more ſpede, being as redye to doo you the good, and pleaſure that I can, as you would wiſhe &c. Syr, quod I, the maner howe I was contente to ſpeake with you was on this ſorte, maiſter Beiche was often in hand with me, whom he ſhould bringe vntounto me, and named you amongeſt other. And, quod I, I remember that I ſayd, I had rather ſpeake with you then wyth anye of all other. Nowe the cauſe I ſo would, I will brieflye tell you, I remember that ones you were (as farre as a man mighte iudge) of the religion that I am of, at this preſente. And I remember that you hauehave ſette fourthe the ſame earneſtly. Gladlye therefore woulde I learne of you, what thynge it was, that moued your conſcience to altre: & gladly would I ſee what thing it is or was y^t you hauehave ſeen ſithē, which you ſawe not before. Here maiſter Pendeltō was ſom thing abaſhed, as appeareth by his fō bling in his ſpech. Maiſter Bradforde, quod he, I do not knowe wherfore you are condempned. Marye, quod I, tranſubſtantiacion is the thinge, wherof I am condempned, and alſo the denyall of wicked men to receaue Chriſts bodie, wherin I would deſire you to ſhewe me what reaſons, which before you knewe not, dyd moue your conſcience to altre: for ones as I ſayd you were as I am in religion. Heare again maiſter Pendelton halfe amaſed, begon to excuſe him ſelfe, if it would hauehave bē, as though he had not denyed fullye tranſubſtantiacion in dede, all though the word, quod he I ſaid was not in ſcripture. & ſo he made an endleſſe tale of the thinge that moued hym to altre. As far as I cold perceaue, it was becauſe he had loked to muche, and giuen to muche diligence and eſtimacion, to Luther and Melancton. But, quod he, I will gether to you the places, and ſend them. And here he deſired me, that he mighte ſee a Copie of that, which I had ſent maiſter Weſton, the whiche I did promiſe hym. This is a ſome of the effectual talke we had. Beſides whiche talke, we had a reaſonninge a litle, whether euil men did receaue Chriſtes bodie. I no. & he, yea. I ſaid they receaued not the ſpirite, Ergo not the bodie: for it is no carcaſe, quoth I, hereto I brought out ſaint Auguſtin, how Iudas receaued Panem domini, and not Panem dominum, how that he muſt be in corpori Chriſti, that muſt receaue Corpus chriſti, which he went about to put awaye, with idem, and not, ad idem, out of ſaint Ierome and howe that in cotpore Chriſti, was too bee vnderſtande of al that be in the viſible church, althoughe they be not in the inuiſible churche with God, whiche I denied to be Sainte Auguſtines meanynge, and ſaide alſo: that ſaint Ieromes allegations could not make for that purpoſe. Again we had talke of tranſubſtantiacion. He bringeth furth Ciprian, Panis quem dedit Dominus natura mutatus. And I expounded Natura, not for the ſubſtaunce. As quod I, the nature of an herbe is not the ſubſtaunce of it: ſo the breade chaunged in nature, is not to be taken for chaunged in ſubſtaunce, for nowe it is ordeyned not for the food of the bodie ſimplye, but rather for the food of the ſoule. And here I broughte fourth Gelaſius, whome he ſaide was a Pope. yea marye, quod I. But his fayth, is my faith, quod I, for the Sacrament, if you wold receaue it. From this talke we wente to talke, wether Accidentia were Res or no. If they be properlie Res, quod I, then be they ſubſtaunce, and if they be ſubſtaunce, (in that we muſte hauehave Tetreſtrem rem, and eayrthlye ſubſtaunce in the Sacrament as Ireneus ſaithe): then muſte we not denye bread, quod I. But he ſaide that colour was the earthelye thynge, and called it an accidentall ſubſtaunce. And ſo here aboutes wee hadde muche duplicate page duplicate page babling to none effecte. I omitte the talke we had of my Lorde of Caunterbury, of Peter Martirs boke, of his letter laied to my charge. When he was condempned of y^e church, whether Dic eccleſie et ce ▪ was of the vniuerſall churche, or of a particular churche, which at the lenght he graunted of vayne glorye, whiche he willed me to be ware of at his comming furth of the Countre, and ſuche like talke. A litle before his departinge, I ſayde this. Maiſter doctor, quod I, as I ſaide to Maiſter weſton the laſte daye, ſo ſaye I vntounto you againe, that I am the ſame man in religion againſte tranſubſtantiacion ſtill, which I was when I came into priſō: for, quod I, hitherto I hauehave ſeen nothynge in anye pointe, to infirme me. At whiche wordes he was ſom thing moued, & ſaid, that, that was not Catholicke▪ yes, quod I, and I truſte ſo to proue it, euen by the teſtimonie of the catholicke fathers, vntill Concilium Lateranenſe, and there abouts. The keper maiſter Clayden deſired hym to tarrie diner, whiche thing he denyed: bycauſe had els wheare promiſed. And ſo wente his waye: ſayinge, that he woulde came after to me: god one father, be with vsus al, and giuegive vsus the ſpirite of his truth for euer. Amen.

In the after nowne about .5. of the clocke, cometh maiſter weſtō, whiche ſente worde to the keper, that he would hauehave ben with me▪ by .2. of the clocke. Nowe when I was come down out of my priſon chamber vntounto him: he very gentlye ſaluted me, deſired the companye: euerie man to departe, and ſo ſat donne, and I beſides hym. And after that he had thancked me for my writtinge vntounto hym: he pulled out of his boſome the ſame writing, which I had ſent hym. The copie whereof in Engliſhe (for I did writte it in Laten) ſhal immediatly follow this communicacion. And before he began to read it, he ſhowed me, that he aſked of my conuerſacion at Cambridge ſithen his being wyth me, &, quod he, maiſter Bradford bycauſe you ar a mā, not giuē to the glorie of this world, I wil ſpeake it before your face: your life I hauehave lerned was ſuch there alwaies, as al mē, euen y^• greateſt enemies you hauehave: can not but praiſe you, & it. And therfore I louelove you, quod he muche better then euer I did. Nowe, quod he, I will reade ouer your argumēts, & ſo we wyll conferrthē. Such they ar, that a man may well perceaue you ſtande of conſcience, & therfore I am glad, and the more redye to pitie you. So he began to rede the firſt, and there beganne to tell, howe that thoughe the worde tranſubſtantiacion began but lately: yet the thinge, quod he, was & hath bene ſithen Chriſtes inſtitucion. And I told him, that I did not contend, or hange vppon the worde onlye: but vpō the thing which, quod I, is as newe as the worde. Then went he to the ſecond, and there broughte oute ſainte Auguſtine, howe that if an euil man, goinge to the deuyll, did make his will: his ſonne and heyre would not ſaye, hys father dyd lye in it, or ſpeake tropically. Much more Chriſte, quod he goinge to god, did neuer lye nor vſe any figuratiue ſpeach in his laſte wil and teſtament. Do you not remember this place of ſaint Auguſtin, quod he? yes ſyr, quod I. But I remē ber not that ſaint Auguſtine hath thoſe wordes, tropice or fyguratiue, that is figuratiuelye ſpoken as you reherſe. For a man maye ſpeake a thinge figuratiuely and lye not, as Chriſte did in his laſt ſupper. After this he wente to the third, and broughte furtho Ciprian, howe that the nature of the bread is turned into fleſhe. Here faith he that my Lord of Caunter burie expoundeth nature, for qualitie by Gelaſius, the whiche interpretacion ſerueth for the aunſwere of your third argumēt, that Chriſte called breade his bodye, that is the qualitie, forme, and apparaunce of bread. And further quod he, the ſcripture is wonte to call thinges, as they auerr, by the ſame names. As Symon the Leper, not whiche was ſo preſentlye, but bicauſe he had ben ſo. Syr, quod I, Cipriā wrote before Gelaſius, therfore Ciprian muſt not expound Gelaſtus, but Gelaſius, Ciprian, and ſo they both teache that bread remaineth ſtil. As for thinges hauinge ſtill the names they had maketh nothinge to aunſwere this except you could ſhew, that this nowe were no bread… as eaſelye a mā might hauehave knowen and ſeen then, Simon to hauehave ben healed and cleane from hys Leproſey. After this he wente to the foerth of the Cuppe, the which he din not fully red but digreſſed into a longe talke of Ciprians Epiſtles De aquarus, Alſo of Saint Auguſtine, expoundinge the breakinge of bread by Chriſte to his. 2. Diſciples goinge to Emauſe, to be of the Sacramente, with ſuch other talke to no certein purpoſe, and therfore I prayed him, that in as muche as I had written to hym, the reaſons that ſtabliſhe my faith againſt tranſubſtantiacion: ſo he woulde doo the lyke to me, that is, aunſwere myne by writinge, and ſhew me moo reaſons in writinge, to confirme trā ſubſtantiaciō, which he promiſed me to doo, and ſaid that he would ſende or briynge it to me agayne, with in three dayes. And ſo when he hadde ouerlye reade my argumentes, and heare and there ſpeake, litle to the purpoſe for auoidynge of them, and therfore I eftſones prayed him to giuegive me in writtynge, his aunſweres: he began to tell me, how, & what he had done for Grymbolde, & howe that I neade not to feare anye reproche or ſlander I ſhoulde ſuſtaine, belike meanīg, to hauehave me ſecretly, to hauehave come to them, as Grymbold dyd, for he ſubſcribed. And therefore I ſpeake on this ſorte vntounto hym. Maiſter Deane, quod I, I wold gladly that you ſhould not conceaue of me, that I paſſe of ſhame of men, ſimplye, in this matter: I rather would hauehave you to thincke of me, as the verye truth is: that hitherto, as I hauehave ſeene, nor heard nothinge to infirme my faith againſte tranſubſtā tiaciō: ſo I am no leſſe ſetled in it. then I was at my comminge hyther. I louelove, quod I, to be plaine with you, & to tell you at the firſt, that you ſhall finde at the laſt. In good fayth Maiſter Bradforde, quod he, I louelove you the better for your plainneſſe: & do not thincke otherwiſe of me, quod he, but that you ſhall find me plaine in al my talke with you. Here he began to aſke me of my impriſonment, and condempnacion. So I began, & told hym, how I had ben hādled, wheare at the ſemed to wounder: yea in playne wordes he ſaide, I had ben handled otherwiſe, then I had gyuen cauſe: & ſo ſhowed me, howe that my Lorde of Bath reported, that I had deſerued a benefite at the Queenes hande, and at all the Counſels. In this kind of talke we ſpent an houre almoſt. and ſo as one wery I did ariſe vp▪ and he called in the keper, and before hym bad me be of good comforte, and to bee out of all peril of death. Mary ſir quoth the keper, but it is in eueryevery mās mouth: that hee ſhal dye to morowe. Whereat, he ſemed ſome thyng halfe amaſed, and ſayde, hee woulde goe before euenſong, before the Queene and ſpeake to her on my behalfe. And I thynke, the Queene hadde almoſte ſupped at that preſente, for it was paſte ſixe of the clocke. Before the keper I tolde hym againe, that ſtyll I was the ſame manne I was at the firſte, and til I ſhould ſee matter to touch conſcience to the contrary: muſt nedes ſo continewe. The keper deſyred me, to hearken to mayſter Doctours counſayle, and prayed. M. Doctor to bee good vntounto me. And ſo after we hade dronke together: maiſter Doctor with moſt gentle woordes, tooke his leaue for three dayes. Nowe when he was gone: the keper tolde me, how that mayſter Doctor ſpake opēly, how that he ſawe no cauſe why thei ſhould burne me. Whiche ſentence for the ambiguitie of the meaning, made me ſorye leſte I had behaued my ſelfe in any thinge, wherin he gathered anye conformableneſſe to them in their doctrine, which god knoweth I neuer as yet dyd ſo. God oure father bleſſe vsus, as hys chyldren, for euer, and keepe vsus from all euyll for euer. Amen. VponUpon the fifth daye of Apryll came maiſter Doctor Weſtō to the coū ter aboute .2. of the clocke in the after noone, who excuſed hymſelfe for beyng ſo long abſent: partely by ſickenes, partely for that Doctor Pendleton tolde hym that hee woulde come vntounto me, and partely for that (quoth he) I withſtoode certaine Monckes, which would hauehave come agayne into Weſtminſter. After whiche talke, he told me howe that the Pope was dead, and then he tolde me, how he had ſpoken to the Queene for me, and how that death was not nere vntounto me. Laſte of all, he excuſed himſelfe, for not aunſwering myne argumentes againſt tranſubſtanciacion: becauſe my commynge to daye (quoth he) was more by fortune then of purpoſe. I woulde gladlye (quoth I) omittyng all other talkes, hauehave ſeen an aunſwer to my argumentes.

Why (quoth he) you hauehave remembered ſome thynge what I ſpake to you, whē I was laſt with you. No ſir (quoth I) I neuer called them in maner to mynde, ſythen that tyme, as well becauſe I hoped you would hauehave writtē them: as alſo for that they ſemed, not to bee ſo materiall. In good faith (ꝙ he) I cannot ſee any other or better waye for you, then for to ſubmit youre ſelf to the iudgement of the Churche▪ Marye ſo I wyll ſir (quoth I) yf ſo be, by the churche you vnderſtand Chriſtes church. Lo (quoth he) you take vponupon you to iudge the church. No ſir (quoth I) that doe I not, in takyng vponupon me to diſcerne, I do not iudge the church. yes that you do (quoth he) and make inuiſible. I dooe neyther, quoth I. Why, ſayth he, who can ſee youre churche? Thoſe ſir, quoth I, that hauehave ſpiritual eyes, wherewith they mighte hauehave dyſcerned, Chriſtes viſible conuerſacion heare vpō earth. Nay, quoth he, Chriſtes churche hath thre tokens, that all men may looke well vponupon: namely, vnitie, antiquitye, and conſent. Theſe thre, quoth I, may be as well in euil as in good, as well in ſynne as in vertue, as well in the deuyls churche, as in Gods churche. As for enſaumple, quoth I, Idolatrie amongeſt the Iſraelites had al thoſe thre. Chriſoſtome telleth plainly, as you wel knowe ſaide I, that the church is well knowen, Tantummodo per ſcripturas alonely bi the ſcriptures. In good faithe, ꝙ hee, you make your churche inuiſible, when you wyll hauehave it knowen alonelye by the ſcriptures. No ſir (quoth I) the ſcriptures dooe playnely ſet furth to vsus, the churche, that all menne maye well ynough, thereby know her, yf thei liſt to loke. The church (ꝙ hee) is like a Towre or towne vppon a Hyll, that al men may ſe. True ſir (quoth I) al men that be not blynde. Viſible ynough is the churche, but menues blindnes is great. Impute not therefore to the churche, that whiche is to bee imputed to mens blindenes. Where (quoth he) was your church forty yeares agoe? or where is it nowe? excepte in a corner of Germanye. Forſooth ſir (quoth I, the churche of Chriſt is diſperſed, and not tied to this or that place, but to y^e word of god: ſo that where it is, there is Gods churche, yf it bee truelye taught. Loe (ꝙ hee) is not thys to make the church inuiſible? Poi…n me out a realme, a hundreth yeres paſte, whiche mayntayned youre doctryne. Syr (quoth I) yf you wyl, or woulde well marke the ſtate of the church, before Chriſtes commynge, with it now, (as ſaint Paule and Peter wylleth vsus) I thynke you woulde not looke for ſuche ſhewes of the churche to be made: as to poynte it oute by realmes. You knowe (quoth I) that in Helyas time both in Iſrael, and els where, Gods churche was not poyntable: and therefore cryed he oute that he was lefte alone. No marye, quoth he, dyd not God ſay that there was .7000 whyche hadde not bowed theyr knees to Baale? Loe, ſayeth he, 7000. ſhewe me ſeuen thouſande a hundreth yeares agoo of your religion. Syr (quoth I) theſe .7000. were not knowen to men, for then Helias woulde not hauehave ſayde, that hee hadde bene before left alone. And thys is playne ynough, by that whiche the texte hathe, namelye, that God ſayeth Reliqui, I hauehave reſerued to me .7000. Marke that it ſayeth, God had reſerued to hym ſelfe to hys own knowledge, as I doubt not but the hundreth yeares agoe, God hadde hys, 7000. in hys proper places, thoughe menne knewe not thereof. Well maiſter Bradforde (ſayeth hee.) I wyll not make youre caſe woorſe, then for tranſubſtanciacion, all thoughe I knowe that we agree not in Other matters. And I praye you (quoth he) make you it youre ſelfe not woorſe. If I canne dooe you good I wyll, hurte you I wyll not, I am no Prynce, and therefore I cannot promyſe lyfe: excepte you wyll ſubmytte youre ſelf, to the diffinicion of y^e church. Syr (quoth I) ſo that you wyll defyne me your churche, that vnderunder it, you brynge not in a falſe churche: you ſhall not ſee but that we ſhal ſoune bee at a poynt. In good fayth maiſter Bradford, (quoth hee.) I ſee no good wyl be doone, and therefore I wyl wiſhe you as muche good as I can, and hereafter I will perchaunce come or ſende to you agayne, and ſo he ſent for maiſter Weale and departed. Nowe after his departynge: commeth the keper maiſter Claydon, and Stephen Beiche, and they were verye hotte with me, and ſpake vntounto me in ſuche ſorte that I ſhould not loke but to hauehave thē vtter enemies vntounto me, notwithſtandyyng the frendeſhippe, they both hauehave hitherto pretended. God bee wyth vsus, & what matter is it who bee agaynſte vsus.

Finis.

¶Imprinted at London, in Fleetſtrete, at the Signe of y^e Faucon by William Griffith, and are to be ſold at the litle ſhop in ſaincte Dunſtones churchyard. Anno .1561. The .xiii. daie of Maye.

End of the text · John Bradford, All the Examinations of the Martyr John Bradford (1561)