A Trial of the Romish Clergys Title to the Church, Text and commentary · Quoted chapter 16 · Commentary 7
A. W.
Catholickneſſe eſpecially as you vnderſtand it, is not ſuch a propertie of the Church, but the Church may be without it: as it is plaine by that Church which was in our Sauiour Chriſts time, onelyonly in the land of Iewrie; and after his death, zAct. 8. 4.till the Church was ſcattered abroade in the world.
Yet let vsus ſee what you bring to prooue, that our Church is not Catholicke.
If there cannot be aſſigned a viſible companie of men profeſſing the ſame faith which the Proteſtants do, euer ſince Chriſts time, continuing without interruption till now: then the Proteſiants Church is not Catholicke.
But there cannot be ſuch a companie aſſigned.
Therefore the Proteſtants Church is not Catholicke.
I denie the conſequence of the maior: Firſt, becauſe that To the propoſition.may be Catholicke, which is not viſible: as the Church of the elect is diſperſed in all places, and yet no where to be ſeene. Secondly, becauſe Catholickneſſe belongs neither to time nor doctrine, but to place and perſons. Thirdly, becauſe it is not required, that the ſame faith in all points ſhould be profeſſed, (which you meane by the ſame faith) but onelyonly the ſame in matters fundamentall.
I grant your minor, that we cannot aſſigne you any ſuch companie, Of the Aſſumption.though we doubt not but that there was alwayes ſuch a companie greater or leſſe, as appeares by them which from time to time hauehave by their writings or ſufferings maintained the ſubſtance of that doctrine which we now profeſſe.
To proue that our doctrine is not vniuerſal, you ſay, aSee my anſwer to 12. art. part. 2. art. 4.it chiefly conſiſteth of negatiues: whereas you cannot be ignorant that we hold all the articles of the creed, and that in the ſame ſenſe as you do, ſaue onelyonly in ſome few differences, about the vnderſtanding of beleefe, what it is to beleeue in the Father, the Sonne, and the holy Ghoſt; and what it is to beleeue the Church, and in what reſpect the Church is called holy and Catholicke, and what the Church is that we beleeue. But we denie ſome things that ſome auncient writers hauehave held. Doe you follow them in all points? You will not ſay ſo for very ſhame. But our Church is truly Catholicke, becauſe it is not tied to the Iewes or Ieruſalem, no nor to any other place or perſons, but common to all that will beleeue in Ieſus Chriſt.
VVhat get you if you proue your Church to be Catholicke: ſince that alone, without the two former points alreadie diſproued, cannot make any companie a true Church? But neither can you proue your Church to be Catholicke: let your argument ſpeake.
That Church which is vniuerſall in time, place and doctrine of the Apoſiles, without change, is Catholicke.
The Romane Church is vniuerſall in time, place and doctrine of the Apoſtles, without change.
Therefore the Romane Church is Catholicke.
If to make a Church Catholicke, it be required that ſhe continue Of the propoſition.in the doctrine of the Apoſtles, how did you before denie that the doctrine of the Apoſtles is a neceſſary and certaine marke of the true Church? But if you leaue this out, and affirme that Church to be Catholicke which is vniuerſall in doctrine, and thinke it not needfull, that the doctrine profeſſed be the Apoſtles: I denie your maior. The reaſons of my deniall, I deliuered in the former Chapter, when I ſhewed, that truth of doctrine was the moſt proper and true marke of the Church.
But whatſoeuer your maior be, your minor is euidently falſe To the Aſſumption.in eueryevery part of it. The very foundations of the doctrine of the Apoſtles, are ouerthrowne by your Church, in the hereſies you hold concerning predeſtination, iuſtification, free will, the inſufficiencie of the Scriptures, and the headſhip of Antichriſt your Pope. Neither do you onelyonly faile in the doctrine of the Apoſtles, but in your vniuerſalitie of time. For how can that doctrine be ſaid to hauehave bin always, which was not taught by our Sauiour and his Apoſtles? As for vniuerſalitie in regard of the ample vniformitie of your doctrine; if you ſpeake of your Churches determination, many points of great moment are not as yet defined by it: for example take thoſe maine queſtions, whether the Pope be aboue the Councell or no: whether he hauehave without a Councell priuiledge of not erring or no: whether there be any merit of congruitie or no, and ſuch like. Yea your Church denieth the chiefe point of all, which in the Apoſtles time was held by all true Chriſtians, that iuſtification is by faith, without the workes of the law. I forbeare to ſhew the reaſons of that I affirme, becauſe any man may ſetch them out of my former anſwer in this and the laſt Chapter.
I looked for proofe of your minor: but you were too wiſe to vndertake a matter ſo vnpoſſible: and therefore in ſtead of that, you challenge vsus to ſhew and proue the contrarie, forgetting that it is the repliers part to proue, and not the anſwerers. But I pray you tell me in earneſt, did you neuer heare of any particulars, whereby we except againſt your doctrine as none of the Apoſtles? What a vaine flouriſh is this then, to demaund new proofes of vsus, and neuer once aſſay to anſwer thoſe we hauehave alreadie brought? But I hauehave made anſwer to your challenge in my refutation of your proofe, that your Church is one. Yea our mens bookes are full of theſe points and proofes, both out of Scriptures and Fathers. As for your brag, of being able to ſhew diuers points that we hold or denie, otherwiſe then the true Church did in the time of the Apoſtles: it is well knowne, that in moſt controuerſies betwixt vsus, you are faine to flie from the Scriptures of God, to the writings of men, and deuiſe interpretations to ſerue your turne. In ſome points we denie not, but that we diſſent from the opinion of ſome writers of former ages; but that we go againſt the iudgement of the whole Church before it became Antichriſtian, neither we graunt, nor you can proue. And euen for thoſe times of error, we want not the teſtimonie of learned men to auouch our doctrine againſt your hereſies. But you call vponupon vsus to ſet downe the point of doctrine, the author, the time, the place, what companie did oppoſe themſelues against it, and who they were that did continue in the profeſſion of the former faith. What needs all this ado? Wil it not ſerue the turne, if we make it manifeſt, that your doctrine is contrary to that the Apoſtles taught, vnleſſe we can ſhew you when eueryevery one of your errors was firſt hatched? What if the Scribes and Phariſes had demaunded the like queſtions of our Sauiour Chriſt, touching their errors reproued by him? There is no doubt, but that as he was God, he could hauehave declared eueryevery one of theſe particulars; but do you thinke he would hauehave fed their fooliſh humor in this caſe, and not hauehave contented himſelfe with ſhewing that it was not ſo from the beginning? bD. Abbot againſt D. B. P.Some of our Miniſters hauehave truly and wittily refuted this conceit of yours, by ſhewing how abſurd it is for a man that is ſicke of the plague, a ſurfet, or any ſuch diſeaſe, to denie that he is ſo diſeaſed, becauſe the Phyſition cannot tell him at what time, and in what place, vponupon what occaſion, in what companie he firſt tooke the infection, or diſtempered his bodie by ill diet. Is it a good plea againſt plaine and ſound euidence, whereby I proue that ſuch a Lordſhip ought to be mine, that I cannot ſhew when and how I loſt the poſſeſſion of eueryevery ſeuerall cloſe and meadow, farme and cottage? But to take away all iuſt excuſe from you, our writers hauehave ſhewed the firſt beginnings of many of your errors, and might hauehave done of more, if al were extant that hath bin written; and your inquiſitors and cenſurers had not (as you call it) purged, indeed corrupted and maimed the writings of former ages, whereſoeuer they made againſt you, if you could light on them before they were too well knowne in the world.
This challenge hath as much reaſon as the former. We muſt proue that there hauehave not bene ſome in eueryevery countrey, where the Goſpell hath bene profeſſed, that hauehave held your Romane faith. Or rather muſt not you proue your Catholickneſſe by ſuch induction? But we confeſſe it to be likely, that the diuell hath from time to time ſowed ſome of your tares amongſt the Lords wheate. But that your whole faith, as now you hold it, was euer maintained any where, till the laſt Councell of Trent, we challenge you to proue if you can. Surely the Greeke Church euen till this day, diſſenteth from you in many, and ſome no ſmall matters, as your Popes ſupremacie; that I may not name thoſe Chriſtians who are in precious Iohns countrey, in Armenia, Jean. Belul.and other parts of the world: to whom your doctrine is as little knowne in a manner, as ours is to thoſe Indians you ſpake of. Amongſt whom, for ought you can proue or know to the contrary, there may be, and in all liklihood are ſome, to whom the Lord hath giuen grace to reſt wholly vponupon Ieſus Chriſt for pardon of their ſinnes, without any mingling of their owne workes with Chriſts, to procure them the inheritance of heauen. All ſuch we challenge to be of our Church, though they agree with you in many of your errors, through their ignorāce of the Scriptures. As for our countrey of England, which d1. Reg. 3. 26.like that harlot, you call deare, as oft as you conceiue hope of bringing it into ſubiection to the Pope, but otherwiſe wiſh it wholly deſtroyed, as ſhee did the child; it neither was conuerted by your proud Monke Auſtine, but peruerted rather: and long before he was borne, had many congregations in it, who held the ſame faith that we now do. You confeſſe they were not of your Church: for then what needed, or how could they hauehave bene conuerted by Auſtine? That the Goſpell was here long before that time, euen in a manner from the firſt preaching of it, ePoly. Virgil. hiſt. Angl. lib. 2Polydor Virgill no Proteſtant may teach you out of Gildas a Brittiſh writer, ancienter then Bede: Gildas witneſſeth (ſaith Polydor) that the Brittans receiued the Goſpell preſently vponupon the firſt publiſhing of it abrode in the world. Yea fBeda hiſt. gēt. Angl. lib. 2. c. 2.Bede, your owne author auoucheth, that ſeuen Biſhops of the Brittans, and many verie learned men refuſed to receiue Auſtine for their Archbiſhop. And gGalſr. Mon. lib. 8. cap. 4.Geffrey of Monmouth teſtifieth, that Ethelbat king of Kent cauſed 1200. monkes of Bangor to be ſlaine in one day, becauſe they would not yeeld to Auſtins Archbiſhopricke: of whom that writer ſaith, that they decked with martyrdome, entred the kingdome of heauen. Mark you what he ſaith? They were martyrs, that choſe to die rather then to yeeld to your Popiſh Archbiſhop. The like conuerſion we may find in the Indies, eſpecially the Weſt, where your Catholicke nation the Spaniards hauehave deſtroyed in few yeares, more ſoules, then all ſent by the Pope, or agreeing in faith with him, euer conuerted in fiue times ſo many. Although, what tell you vsus of men communicating with the Pope in the ſame faith? How durſt they attempt any ſuch matter, without ſpeciall commiſſion from him? Is his authoritie no more amongſt you?
The Romane Church hath indeed alwayes bene viſible: but it hath not alwayes bene the ſame Church. For many hundred yeares it was ours, and not yours, though the diuell laboured to ſow the tares, you now ſell for corne, among the wheate, and preuailed by little and little. It is therefore ridiculous for you to challenge vsus, that we ſhould ſhew when the faith, receiued by the Church of Rome from the Apoſtles, began to faile in it. It was done (hMat. 13. 25. as our Sauiour ſpeakes in the like caſe) while men ſlept: and ſo ſlily, peece by peece, that the corne was ouergrowne ere the tares were perceiued: moſt men tooke them for wheate: they that ſaw ſome difference, thought them too deeply rooted for them to plucke vp: and if any man offered to touch them with his weeding hooke, Satan had taken order by your Pope and his Cleargie, that the hooke ſhould be wrung out of his hands; and if he held hard, his head be wrung off his ſhoulders. Thus one man being taught by anothers calamitie, as in hunting with the Lion, the Foxe was by the Aſſes miſery, eueryevery one thought it beſt to ſleepe in a whole skin, and to beare with that they could not helpe. Yet are there many examples of thoſe, who from time to time hauehave withſtood the tyrannie of your Pope, and your hereſies in Religion: and many more we ſhould hauehave heard of, if your Popiſh Cleargie had not bin chiefe commaunders through all Europe.
What is all this painted diſcourſe, but a flouriſhing repetition of that which hath bene often anſwered, like coleworts twice ſod, and ſtrewed ouer with ſugar? OnelyOnly to grace the ſeruice you ſend in the diſh by one, who in your eyes is a proper man. But do you not know, that as wel his owne treaſon, as the continuall practiſes of his companions, and aboue all, the late diuelliſh fire worke of your ſuperiour Garnets approbation, hauehave made Campions authoritie light, and the name of a Ieſuite odious to all true hearted Engliſhmen? Let vsus take the Traitor at the beſt, and giuegive him ſome commendation of wit, and of a quicke cornicall ſtile. If once his writings be ſtript of their rhetoricall habit, and ſet naked before the light of true logicke, it will appeare to all the world (I will ſay no more then I am able to manifeſt) that neuer any man ſo doted vponupon by them that would ſeeme to be great clearkes, writ more weakly or vnſoundly. You tell vsus, that the Romane Church was once a true Church. We acknowledge it with thankes to God, and due commendation thereof: and are loth to ſay any thing, whereby the beſt opinion of it might be diminiſhed; but that you driue vsus to it, by building vponupon that high commendation, which S. Paul (ſay you) hath left written of it: as if it had once bene ſo extraordinarily rooted, that no blaſt could ſhake it. But how vaine a conceit this is, it will eaſily be ſeene, if we conſider that other Churches, which hauehave had as great commendations, are now no Churches at all. What is become of that famous Church at Corinth, of which the Apoſtle teſtifieth, that iCor. 1. 5.In all things it was made rich in Chriſt, in all kind of ſpeech, and in all knowledge: ſo that they were not deſtitute of any gift? yea the Apoſtle addeth, that verſ. 7.Ieſus Chriſt ſhall alſo confirme them, vntounto the end, that they may be blameleſſe in the day of our Lord Ieſus. This paſſeth that he ſaith of the Romanes. The like he ſaith of kPhil. 1. 3. 5. 6the Philippians, I thanke my God, becauſe of the fellowſhip which you hauehave in the Goſpell, from the firſt day vntill now: and I am perſwaded of the ſame thing, that he, which hath begun this good worke in you, will performe it, vntill the day of Ieſus Chriſt. How (would you hauehave triumphed) if the Apoſtle had ſaid as much of your Church? But what ſay you to the Church of Theſſalonica? From you (ſaith l1. Theſſ. 1. 8.the Apoſtle of the Theſſalonians) ſounded out the word of the Lord, not in Macedonia and Achaia onelyonly: but your faith alſo, which is toward God, is ſpread abroade in all quarters. Are not theſe commendations as great as thoſe that are left written of the Romanes? Yea, what if that which the Apoſtle ſpeakes of them, be not to commend their faith, but to ſhew the reaſon of his ioy, and thankes to God for their conuerſion? As if he ſhould hauehave ſaid, that he did thanke God for them, becauſe of their beleeuing: and the report thereof through the world, was like to proue an occaſion of ſpreading the Goſpell, and drawing many other by their example to the profeſſion of Chriſtian Religion, and confirming them that did beleeue. He declares (ſaith mCaietan. ad Rom. 1. 8.Caietan) that the cauſe of his thanksgiuing was, that the fame of their beleeuing was profitable to all the world. For Rome at that time was the head of the world: and therefore the report of the Chriſtian faith being at Rome, was ſpread abroade into all places, and was profitable to all, as being a meanes to prouoke them to beleeue. Of the confirming of others nLombard. ibi. & Ambroſ.Lombard ſaith, that they which beleeued were ſtrengthened in faith, ſeeing that their rulers were made their brethren in faith. So do oOrigen.Origen, pTheodoret.Theodoret, qGloſſ. ordin. interl.your Gloſſes, rLyra.Lyra, ſThomas.Thomas, tCatharin.Catharin, and other, vnderſtand the Apoſtle. uAmbroſ. ibi.Ambroſe is not afraid to ſay plainly, that the Apoſtle reioyceth for their good beginning, knowing that they might go forward to perfection. For as yet (ſaith xThomas ibi.Thomas) they had not perfect faith, becauſe ſome of them were by falſe Apoſtles ſeduced, ſo that they thought the cermonies of the law were to be ioyned with the Gospell. He doth not (ſaith yGloſs. interl.your interlinear Gloſſe) commend their faith as perfect, but their readineſſe and deſire to embrace Chriſt. All which notwithſtanding, we willingly graunt, that the Romane Church was at that time, and long after, a true Church: what gather you of this graunt? I hope you will not ſay, that therefore it muſt needs be a true church ſtill. But we ſhal better vnderſtand your meaning by that which followeth.
There is nothing you Papiſts are more afraid of, then to be drawne to iuſtifie your doctrine by Scripture. Therefore you alwayes keepe aloofe, and tell vsus of the Church, the Church, as the Iewes did Ier. 7. 5.Ieremie of the Temple. The Romane Church (ſay you) was once a true Church. Who denieth it? Therefore is it ſo ſtill? I (ſay you) that it is, vnleſſe you can ſhew, at what time it departed from the true faith. Did you neuer know any man, who in his youth had blacke haire, and now being old is all white headed? Put caſe I would ſtand verie ſtifly vponupon your argument, and ſay that his head is blacke ſtill, and vrge you to tell me, when the firſt haire changed white. Would you anſwer me, or laugh at me for my folly? But ſuch changes in faith (ſay you) would hauehave bene reſiſted, or at leaſt recorded by ſome, and you prooue it thus.
If no hereſie as contrarie to truth, as blacke is to white, was euer heard of; to hauehave ariſen, without noting, or reſiſting, nor any ſuch could now poſſibly ſo ariſe; then no ſuch thing is to be beleeued of the Romane Church.
But no ſuch hereſie was euer heard of to hauehave ariſen, nor can ſo ariſe, without noting or reſiſting.
Therefore no ſuch thing is to be beleeued of the Romane Church.
That I may anſwer directly to your Syllogiſme, remember To the ſyllogiſme.(which I alſo noted before) that you take it, as granted, that there was neuer any noting or reſiſting of errours, but there is yet record remaining of it. Whereas we geſſing reaſonably of that which is paſt, by that we ſee euerie day, perſwade our ſelues, that your Popiſh inquiſitors and cenſurers hauehave raced and deſtroyed many records, wherein the ariſing of your errors, and the reſiſtance made againſt them hauehave bene noted. I would ſpeake more of this matter, but that almoſt euerie childe knoweth, how ſhamefully, and lewdly you deale euerie day, with your owne mens writings, who forced by the euidence of truth, here and there giuegive witneſſe to our doctrine in their bookes. We ſee not then, why we may not yeeld this concluſion, for ought that it can aduantage you, or hurt vsus. All ſuch errours doubtleſſe hauehave bene noted, and reſiſted; though the records thereof be periſhed, defaced, or deſtroyed by your Antichriſtian Prelates. Secondly, though it were granted to be true, that No hereſie as contrarie to the truth as blacke is to white, euer could ariſe without being noted or recorded: yet might your Popiſh errours hauehave ſtollen in, for the moſt part, vnperceiued. Becauſe they were not apparently contrary to the knowne truth, as the abſurd examples you bring of ſacrificing an Oxe, or worſhipping a Cow, are. Poperie (as the a2. Theſſ. 2. 7.Apoſtle ſaith of it, vnderunder the title of Antichriſtianiſme) is a myſterie of iniquitie, which began to worke in his daies, and by little and little, with colourable pretences, wrought it ſelfe into the Church, till it came to that height, in which all the world now ſeeth it. I might exemplifie this matter, in that great point, of your Popes licentious and vnlimited authority; how it began, by reaſon of the place, Rome being the chiefe ſeat of the Empire: how it grew by the fauour of the Emperours, and the worthineſſe of ſome Biſhops of that ſea, and ſo crept on, till it had gotten See Doctor Reynolds confer. with Maſter Hart pag. 313. &c.ſtrength to trample the Emperours themſelues vnderunder foote. It is ſaid by way of prouerbe, that Rome was not built in one day. The ſpeach is as true of your Popes Romiſh gouernment, as of Romulus firſt founding the Citie. The occaſions and pretences of your Popes greatneſſe were reaſonable faire to ſhew, and ſeemed to promiſe, I know not what ſecuritie to religion, and peace to Chriſtendome: but the euenthath ſhewed, that the one by it was, for a time, quite ouerthrowne, & the other partlie deſtroyed, and altogether brought into great hazard. But I may not enlarge my anſwer to farre. bHollinſhead diſcription of Britan. fol. 11Our Hiſtoriographer whom you finde fault with, no doubt ſpake in that iuſt indignation he conceiued againſt the intollerable pride of the Romiſh Monke Auſtin, & in pittie of that bloodſhed, which inſued vponupon his finding fauour with the Saxon kings: whom he cauſed to imbrew their hands in the bloud of many thouſand poore Chriſtians: becauſe forſooth they would not ſubmit themſelues to his inſolencie. If his ſpeech ſound vnpleaſantly in your eares, how would you hauehave liked cMat. 23. 15.that of our Sauiour in the Goſpell? VVo be to you Scribes and Phariſies, Hypocrites. For ye compaſſe ſea and land to make one of your profeſſion: and when he is made, you make him two fold the childe of hell more then your ſelues. For (ſaith dHieron. ad Mat. 23.Ierome) he that before did but ſimply erre in his ignorance, by your lewd conuerſation, is driuen from his profeſſion backe againe to Gentiliſme. Surely they that before were heathen, and might by Gods bleſſing hauehave bene wonne to the truth of the Goſpell, through the preaching of the Britans, and their humble conuerſation, by this Auſtin loſt the opportunitie, and became perſecutors of true Chriſtians, for your pride and ſuperſtition, with which afterward the whole nation was miſerably ouerwhelmed, and at laſt almoſt periſhed vnderunder the Normans. But to giuegive you ſome better ſatisfaction touching this point, heare I pray you in a few words, what one of your owne writers ſaith: It is a thing full of horror (ſaith eBucchinger. hiſt. Eccleſ. pag. 217.Bucchingerus) either to reade or remember, that the Popes of Rome practiſed ſuch tyranny, one againſt another. O how are they degenerated from their Anceſtors? It could not be, that in the time of ſuch cruelty, there ſhould be any regard had of Chriſtian pietie. Let no man then maruaile if ſome abuſes, and peruerſe opinions crept into the Church. There was great ignorance of the Scripture, and louelove of ſuperſtition, f2. Theſs. 2. 11.The Lord ſending men ſtrong deluſions, that they ſhould beleeue lies, becauſe they had not receiued the louelove of the truth.
You preſſe vsus here, (as you thinke) with ſome probabilitie, that if there had bene any alteration of religion, it would certainly hauehave bene recorded. But how ſhould it hauehave bene recorded, when it was not ſeene? You dreame of a ſodain change: where as the alteration grew from good to bad, yet with ſhew of ſome goodneſſe; and from bad to worſe, ſo nicely, that few or none could diſcerne it. Your probabilities are two. The former in this manner.
If there could not a little ceremonie be added to the Maſſe, but that it was ſet downe in historie; how could the whole ſubſtance of the Maſſe be newly inuented, and no mention made of it?
This conſequence is weake. For thoſe additions to the Maſſe were matters enioyned by your Popes, and recorded by your writers of Hiſtories, not as errours, but as vertues, to the commendation of the Authors thereof, the world growing euerie day more and more ſuperſtitious, and yet there are ſome ceremonies, & other patches of your Maſſe, about the Author wherof there is no great agreement to be found in your writers of hiſtories. But the ſubſtance of your Maſſe was long comming in, and the words themſelues in it, hauing bene deuiſed to no ill purpoſe, were at at laſt occaſion of errour vponupon errour; as it is worthily declared, by gLord Pleſſy of the Maſſe.the Lord Pleſſy in his booke of the Maſſe, to which I referre all men, that deſire to be ſatisfied in this matter, and where (I dare vndertake) they may finde good ſatisfaction. The learned know of themſelues, how to hauehave it alſo otherwhere, in the writings of our diuines, hD. Sutliu. de Miſſa.Doctor Sutcliffe, and diuers other.
Your latter obiection carrieth ſome more ſhew of likelihood with it, in this ſort.
If Hiſtoriographers were not afraid to note perſonall and priuate vices of the Popes themſelues, why ſhould they feare to record any alteration in religion?
Do you not know why? Or can you not diſcerne the difference in this caſe? Of whom ſhould they be afraid? Your Popes for the moſt part, were ſo notoriouſly lewd, that all, your Hiſtoriographers write of them, was well knowne to the world, before they writ, ſo that they could not for ſhame, but ſay in a manner, as much as they did. But the chiefe matter was, that the latter Popes had quarrels to their predeceſſors, which was verie ordinarie: and then it was not onelyonly ſafe, but as it were meritorious, to diſplay their villany to the world; or at the leaſt, they might imagine that the vices of their predeceſſors would ſerue for a foile to their vertues. Sometimes alſo it fell out, that the Pope in verie ciuill honeſtie, had a deteſtation of ſuch bad courſes as other before him had taken; & that gaue men ſome liberty to write more freely. But your change of doctrine neither could eaſily, nor might at all be diſcouered, becauſe it was a priuitie of your eſtate, and a principle of your religion, with Arcanum reipublicae.your Pope and Prelates, that Saint Peters vicar could not erre in doctrine. As for thē in other countries, who knoweth not, how few monuments of antiquitie remaine? Or who ſuſpecteth not iuſtly, that they hauehave come through huckſters handling, as in diuers it is more then apparent? Yet are there alſo diuers records in the writings of learned men, wherein any man may ſee direct oppoſition to many points, held at this day in your Romiſh Church.
After many idle repetitions, turnings and windings, at the laſt you are lighted vponupon a part of our anſwer, that thoſe errors and abuſes, crept in by little and little vnperceiued. For replie whereto you ſay, it is an idle fiction already refuted. How idle then is this new diſcourſe of yours, againſt a point, which you hauehave ouerthrowne before? But you knew well enough, for all your ſaying, that it asked further help, thē you could yet affoord it. Well, what ſay you at the laſt? iuſt nothing at all to purpoſe. For what though the matters be of great moment, and leſſe points noted by ſome writers? We ſpeake not of that, but of the ſmal difference from the truth, which at the firſt appeared in the bringing in, and beginning of your hereſies. A matter of ſmall importance, being apparently contrary to that, which is generally held to be true, ſhall find more to note and reſiſt it, then an errour in the very foundation of religiō, ſo cloſely carried that it cānot at the firſt be perceiued. You giuegive vsus two exāples of very important matters, the Maſſe and Images. But you offer not to ſhew, that they brake out all at once, to the height of impietie: No, no, they came in by degrees, vnderunder a colour of reuerence, and helpe to further men in deuotion. I wittingly for beare to enter into diſcourſe of theſe points, becauſe I ſhould be too long, and the matter is already performed very excellently by that honorable perſonage the Lord Pleſſy: iPleſſy of the Maſſe. lib. 1. chap. 6. 7. 8.for the Maſſe in his firſt booke, kLib. 2. cap. 2. 3. 4.and for Images in his ſecond.lSee our Homilies of the perill of Idolatry.
But I may not forget to anſwer the imputations you charge vsus withal. Firſt concerning the Sacrament, you confidently auouch that we hold it to be (really and ſubſtantially) but a bare peece of bread. Wherein you ſhew that, wherewith afterward you charge vsus about Images, either your ignorance, or your malice. By Sacrament we vnderſtand, according to the truth, the whole action of bleſſing, giuing, receiuing the bread and wine. The bread which you call the Sacrament, is but part of the matter of the Sacrament. But what? Do we make this bread, to be really and ſubstantially bare bread? Surely, for the nature of it, we ſay and are ſure, that it neuer ceaſeth to be bread, till it be digeſted in the ſtomacke. But for the vſe, we acknowledge it, ſo farre as it is vſed, to be holy bread, and not bare bread, bread appointed, bleſſed, and made effectuall by God, to ſeale vp in our hearts the aſſurance of his louelove, in giuing his ſonne for our redemption, and the forgiueneſſe of our ſinnes, reſting vponupon him by faith for pardon. Indeed we do not, as you do, blaſphemouſly call the bread our Creator, or God; vponupon a conceit, that (forſooth) the ſubſtance of the bread, is either vaniſhed away, or elſe turned into the bodie of Ieſus Chriſt, to be torne in peeces with our teeth, or ſwallowed downe into our bellies, and from thence beſtowed in a worſe place. This ſenſeleſſe, and monſtrous opinion hath bene, and is amongſt you, the cauſe of the moſt groſſe and barbarous idolatrie, that euer was committed in the world.
It is neither ignorantly nor malitiouſly done of vsus, to charge you, for adoring ſtocks and ſtones, as the Paynims did. Compare the things, and the worſhip, and then ſhew me a true difference. Are not your Images of wood, gold, ſtone, as the Gentiles were? HaueHave they not the ſhape and proportion of men and women, as theirs had? Do not you worſhip them, as diuers of the Heathen were wont to do? You mBaruc. cap. 6 verſ. 3. verſ. 12. verſ. 18. 20.couer them with cloathing of purpoſe, and wipe their faces, becauſe of the duſt of the Temple. You light vp candles before them: you make their faces blacke through the ſmoake of your incenſe, you beare them in proceſſion vponupon your ſhoulders, you ſet gifts before them: your Prieſts hauehave their heads and beards ſhauen: you call vponupon them for helpe: you preſent the blinde, the halt, and ſicke before them to be healed. verſ. 25. 26. verſ. 30. verſ. 31. 40.But what meane I to reckon vp ſo many particulars? Who ſees not the agreement betwixt the heathen and the Papiſts, for the matter, forme, and worſhip of their Images? Your idle diſtinctions of Idoll, and Image, of ſeruice and worſhip, of religious and ciuill worſhip, I hauehave nDefence of the Reformed Catholicke. Pag. 544. 545.otherwhere examined and refuted. If you ſay, that you worſhip not the Image; it is too manifeſtly apparent, as a ruled caſe amongſt you, that oThom. 3. q. 25. art. 3.the Image muſt hauehave the ſame worſhip, pSee my defence of the Reformed Catholicke. Pag. 569.that belongeth to the thing, whoſe Image it is. But you do not take the Images to be Gods. If you ſpeake of all your ignorant people, I ſcarce beleeue you. But this maketh no difference in worſhip. The heathen, at leaſt the learned and wiſer ſort of them, did not hold their Idols to be Gods, but repreſentations of their Gods. And you Papiſts, in making them mediators of interceſſion, and ſo acknowledging but one God, do little better then the Pagans: for they had but one ſoueraigne God Iupiter, who commaunded all the reſt. Not onelyonly Dij minorum gentium, their Gods of the third and fourth forme, but alſo thoſe of the ſecond and firſt, as Hercules, Apollo, Venus, yea and qVirgil Aeneid. lib. 12.Iuno her ſelfe too, who was both wife and ſiſter to Iupiter, depended vponupon him, and were glad to be mediators of interceſſion to him for their fauorites: as is euerie where to be ſeene in Homer, and Ʋirgil. All the difference of any moment, that I perceiue, is, that ſome of the heathen Gods, were imagined to be ſuch by nature; and all your Diui or Saints, pety-gods, hauehave both their places and offices by fauour. But I am wearie of theſe abhominations and fooleries of yours.
The Paſtors of the Church being imployed in withſtanding manifeſt and dangerous hereſies, neither did nor could, though they ſlept not, perceiue and reprooue eueryevery errour; yea it is more then likely, that they were content to beare with many things, as long as the maine points were held ſoundly: leaſt by ſtriuing for matters of leſſe weight, greater things ſhould be neglected, and they that erred in ſmall things, vponupon reſiſtance, quite fall away to ioyne with the heretickes. This in the beginning, for ſome fiue hundred yeares, was the eſtate of the Church. And afterward plentie bred pride and idleneſſe: the chalices were turned into gold, and Prieſts into wood or lead, that partly ignorāce, & partly ſlothfulneſſe gaue the diuell opportunitie to ſow what errours he would in the middeſt of the Church. If any man of more learning or grace, thē the ordinary ſort perceiued and reprooued the errours of his time, he was by one means or other ſuppreſſed or diſgraced: all mē & their writings, eſpecially rAnno. 609.after the reuealing of Antichriſt, being at the deuotion of your perſecuting Cleargie. Yet did not Almighty God leaue his truth without witnes, as it appeareth ſIllyricus in Catal. teſtium. veritatis.by record of them who from time to time, miſliked and withſtood your Antichriſtian doctrines. Theſe are no dreames of a proud man in his ſleepe, but likely coniectures, or rather apparent truthes, as any indifferent man may diſcerne, and will confeſſe.
To ſhut vp the matter, you be take your ſelfe to your generall Rendez-vous of the Church, which forſooth, if thoſe former imputations were true, ſhould hauehave erred; and ſo the holy Ghoſt hauehave neglected his office, which your Pope hath aſſigned him, to keepe the vniuerſall Church from erring. It had bene well, your Antichriſt would hauehave contented himſelfe, with his ſaucineſſe toward his tLeo. Epiſt. 50.Lord Saint Peter, in appointing him to the Porterſhip of heauen gates, and not hauehave preſumed to enioyne the holy Ghoſt alſo ſuch an office, as our Sauiour neuer committed to him. The charge our Sauiour left with that his glorious Lieutenant, ſpecified in that part of his Ioan. 14. 17. & 16. 15.Patent, which you glance at, was not concerning the vniuerſall Church, a thing (in your ſenſe) not once ſignified in the Scriptures: but touching the Apoſtles abſolutely, and all true Chriſtians in generall and particular, for matters neceſſarie to ſaluation. This accordingly hath alwaies bene performed, no man that euer truly beleeued in Ieſus Chriſt, hauing fallen into any ſuch errour, as might vtterly ſeuer him from the bodie of the true Church, that is, the company of the elect beleeuers, wherof our Sauiour Chriſt is the head: as I hauehave ſhewed in my ſpeciall anſwer to theſe places before.
But Tertullian ſaith, that the holy Ghoſt had neglected his dutie, if the Church, had vniuerſally erred. in ſuch important matters. xTertul. de praeſcript. cap. 28.Tertullian ſpeaketh not of any vniuerſall Church, but of ſeuerall particular Churches: which you grant may erre, and yet the holy Ghoſt not faile in his commiſſion. Beſides, yTertul. de praenit. cap. 10.Tertullian himſelfe ſaith otherwhere, that the Church may be preſerued in one or two: and therefore your Catholicke Church of Rome might well fall into ſuch groſſe hereſies, without any diſgrace to the Spirit of God.