A Trial of the Romish Clergys Title to the Church — Anthony Wotton

A Trial of the Romish Clergys Title to the Church · Anthony Wotton

A. D.

CHAP. X. That the doctrine and teaching of the true Church, is the rule of faith.

A. W.

If you had mentioned nothing but the doctrine of the true Church, we might hauehave vnderſtood you, without any cauſe of doubting: but now you ad teaching to doctrine, we are enforced to enquire farther into your meaning. For we are vncertaine, whether by thoſe words you meane one and the ſame thing, or no. The doctrine of the Church, is that which the Church propoundeth to be beleeued, whether by word of mouth, or in writing. Teaching, if we make it differ from doctrine, is that onelyonly which is deliuered by voice to the eare. If we vnderſtand you in the former ſenſe for teaching by writing, as well as by word of mouth, the latter word was needleſſe; if in the latter of writing onelyonly, then the ſame doctrine written, is not the rule of faith, which vttered by a teacher will become ſuch a rule; not becauſe it is true, but becauſe it is taught by authoritie.

A. D. §. 1.

The fourth concluſion is, that this infallible rule, which eueryevery one ought to follow in all points of faith, is the doctrine and teaching of the true Church, or companie of the true faithfull of Chriſt.

A. W.

That we may the better vnderſtand what you ſay, and how you proue your ſaying, there are a few things to be conſidered in this fourth condition. Firſt, by the faithfull of Chriſt, you muſt meane thoſe that profeſſe Chriſtian Religion, whether they beleeue as they profeſſe, or no; as I hauehave ſhewed out of eBellar. de Eccleſ. mil. lib. 3. cap. 10.Bellarmine, who doubtleſſe knoweth what the Church is, as well as you. If you be of any other opinion, by fChap. ….your owne rule we may reiect it, for the priuatneſſe thereof.

Secondly, where you ſay the true faithfull, it is not your purpoſe to ſpeake as we, for whom you writ this, commonly doe, of them that hauehave a true iuſtifying faith; but of them that profeſſe the doctrine of the Goſpell, according to the true ſenſe and meaning of it, whether they hauehave any iuſtifying faith or no.

Thirdly, by this companie or Church, whom vnderſtand you? If the whole number of the beleeuers, as well Laitie as Cleargie, I oppoſe the iudgement of your owne Doctours againſt you, who ſpeaking of the Churches doctrine and teaching, reſtraine the word onelyonly to the Pope and Biſhops. The ſpirit (ſaith gBellar. de verb. Dei. lib. 3. cap. 3. §. Tota igitur.Bellarmine) is certainly found in the Church, that is, in a Councell of Biſhops, confirmed by the chiefe Pastor of the whole Church, or in the chiefe Pastor with a Councell of the other Pastors. If you follow Bellarmine, I demaund whether your Laity be none of the true faithfull of Chriſt, nor parts of the Church. But to leaue this doubt, wee are thus to conceiue your meaning, that the doctrine which the Pope and other Paſtors of the Church, namely Bb. deliuer in a Councell, is the rule of faith.

Now let vsus propound your reaſon, and examine it; but firſt I confeſſe, that I dare not reſolutely determine whether it be brought in by you, for a proofe of any thing that hitherto hath bene ſpoken, or intended onelyonly, as a diſcourſe concerning the authoritie of the Church. If we apply it to any matter alreadie paſt, as farre as I am able to conceiue, it muſt be a ſecond proofe of the propoſition or maior of your maine Syllogiſme in this manner.

If the doctrine and teaching of the true Church be the infallible rule which all men ought to follow, then the faith which the authority of the true Church commends to vsus, is to be holden for the true faith.

But the doctrine and teaching of the true church, is the infallible rule, that all men ought to follow.

Therfore the faith which the authoritie of the true Church commendeth to vsus, is to be holden for the true faith.

This reaſonable coherence we may make betwixt this Chapter and your former courſe, without changing or weakning any part or point of your proofe, which is applied to the confirming of this laſt minor, the argument of this Chapter.

A. D. §. 2.

This I proue by this reaſon. If our Sauiour Christ hath promiſed to any company of men, the preſence of himſelfe, and the aſſiſtance of his holy ſpirit, of purpoſe to inſtruct and teach them all truth: giuing withall peculiar charge and commiſſion to them, to teach all nations, and to preach to eueryevery creature: giuing alſo warrant to all, that they may ſafely heare them: giuing alſo commandement, whereby he bindeth all, to do in all things according to their ſaying: and threatning greatly thoſe who will not heare and beleeue them: then certainly the doctrine and teaching of theſe men, is in all points most true and infallible; and ſuch, as (if the other conditions required in the rule of faith be not, as they are not, wanting) may well be propoſed to all ſorts as an aſſured ground, whereupon they may ſafely build an infallible Christian faith. For looke what our Sauiour Chriſt hath promiſed, muſt needs be performed; and whatſoeuer he warranteth or commandeth, may ſafely and without danger of error be done, nay muſt of neceſſitie be done, eſpecially when he threatneth thoſe that will not do it: and conſequently if he hauehave promiſed to ſend his holy Spirit to teach any companie of men all truth; it is not to be doubted, but that he ſendeth this his holy Spirit, and by it teacheth them all truth: and fith the teaching of his Spirit is vnfallible, we are not to doubt but that this companie is in all points infallibly taught the truth. If alſo the ſame our Sauiour gaue warrant and commandement, that they ſhould teach vsus, and that we ſhould heare them, and do in all things according to their ſaying: we may not likewiſe doubt, but that they ſhall be able to teach all ſorts of men, in all points, the infallible truth; and that all ſorts of men may, if they will, learne of that companie, what in all points is the infallible truth. For otherwiſe by this generall commaundement of hearing them, and doing according to their ſaying, we ſhould be bound ſomtime to heare and beleeue an vntruth, and to doe that, which were not vpright and good: which without blaſphemie to Chriſt his veritie and goodneſſe can no way be thought.

A. W.

1 If our Sauiour Chriſt (ſay you) hath promiſed to any companie his preſence and aſſiſtance of his ſpirit, of purpoſe to inſtruct and teach them all truth.

2 If he hauehave giuen them charge and commiſſion to preach to euerie creature.

3 If he hauehave giuen warrant to all, that they may ſafely heare them.

4 If he hauehave giuen commaundement to all, to doe in all things, according to their ſaying.

5 If he hauehave threatned them, who will not heare and beleeue them.

6 If the other conditions required in the rule of faith be not wanting, then the doctrine and teaching of the true Church is the rule, that all men ought to follow.

But our Sauiour Chriſt hath ſo 1. promiſed, 2. charged, 3. warranted, 4. commaunded, 5. threatned, and 6. the other conditions required, are not wanting.

Therefore the doctrine and teaching of the true Church is the rule that all men ought to follow.

I hauehave propounded this Syllogiſme, as your ſelfe hauehave ſet it Of the propoſition.downe, ſaue onelyonly that I hauehave endeuored to make it ſomewhat ſhorter, keeping your ſenſe whole and full. Now for the propoſition, I grant the conſequence, vponupon all thoſe conditions ioyntly conſidered, to be ſound and good: Howſoeuer ſome of them might well hauehave bene omitted: for example.

1 If our Sauiour hauehave promiſed his preſence and aſſistance of his ſpirit, of purpoſe to teach a certaine companie of men all truth, then the doctrine of the Church is the rule of faith.

This conſequence is but weake: for Chriſt may affoord ſuch preſence and aſſiſtance to ſuch a purpoſe, and yet the effect not enſue, by reaſon that thoſe men faile in ſome duties required on their part. Do not you affirme hChap. 5.in this Treatiſe, that God hath appointed meanes of ſaluation for all men, with a true will to hauehave them ſaued; and yet verie many, yea the greateſt part are not ſaued?

2 If he hauehave giuen them charge and commiſſion to preach to euerie creature, then their preaching is the rule of faith.

Their commiſſion is not ſimply to teach, but to teach iMath. 28. 20.thoſe things, that our Sauiour himſelfe commaunded, and therefore their doctrine can be no farther the rule of faith, then they preach according to their commiſſion. If I, or an Angell from heauen (ſaith kGal. 1. 8.the Apoſtle) preach vntounto you, otherwiſe, then that you hauehave receiued, let him be accurſed.

The ſame may be obiected againſt the third, and the fifth points: It doth not follow that their doctrine is the rule of faith, becauſe all men hauehave warrant to heare them ſafely: or becauſe, they are threatned, who will not heare and beleeue them. For firſt, they may be free from danger of erring, and yet not know all points of faith, lChap. 6.which is made by you one condition of the rule. Secondly, vnleſſe you enlarge the warrant, as farre as the commaundement, in the fourth point, (which is in a manner to confound them) ſo that they may ſafely heare them in all things, your conſequence will ſtill be naught. Thirdly, they may heare them ſafely, though the other may erre, if they hauehave means affoorded to examine that they deliuer, & skill and care to vſe thoſe meanes. Fourthly, the threatning, for not beleeuing, is to be reſtrained to their teaching, as they ought. Are not they threatned mLuc. 10. 16.by our Sauiour, who beleeue not any Miniſter lawfully authoriſed, and preaching the truth? Yet doth it not follow hereupon, that they cannot erre, or that their preaching is ſimply the rule of faith.

But theſe feeble conſequences might all hauehave bene omitted by you, and your matter as fully prooued, if you had ſet downe none, but the fourth and ſixth points thus.

If God hauehave commaunded all men to doe, in all things, as the Church teacheth, and the other conditions required in the rule be not wanting, then their preaching is the rule, that all men ought to follow.

This conſequence is true, and ſufficient for your purpoſe; the other ſerue for number to make a ſhew, rather then for ſubſtance of weight. But of your Maior this may be ſufficient, eſpecially ſince I acknowledge the truth thereof.

A. D. §. 3.

But ſo it is, that Chriſt our Sauiour hath in holy Scripture promiſed, giuen commiſſion, warranted, commaunded, and threatned in manner aforeſaid.

Therefore we cannot doubt, but that there is a certaine company (the which is called the true Church of Chriſt) which both is, in all points of faith, infallibly taught, by the holy Spirit; and is likewiſe to teach all ſorts of men, in all points of faith, what is the infallible truth: and therefore the teaching of this companie, may well be aſſigned, and propoſed to all men, as an vndoubted, ſufficient rule of faith.

A. W.

I denie your Minor, firſt in generall; becauſe our Sauiour did To the aſſumption.not ſo promiſe, charge, warrant, commaund, threaten, in regard of any companie of men, as if there had bene ſome ioynt teaching appointed by him: but in reſpect of his Apoſtles, and Miniſters ſeuerally, who, in their proportion, hauehave as much authoritie, for neceſſitie of being beleeued, ſeuerally one by one, as iointly all together; though ſuch a ioynt conſent is the more to be reuerenced, and reſpected. Secondly, I denie it alſo, in the fourth point, which is the ſtrength of it. There neuer was ſince the Apoſtles, any man, or any companie of men, according to whoſe ſaying we were commaunded to doe in all things. Laſtly, I ſay the conditions required in the rule of faith, are wanting in the teaching you vnderſtand.

This concluſion of yours giueth me occaſion to ſpeake ſomewhat Of the concluſion.at large of the Church, with the name whereof applied nHeruaeus de poteſt Papae. cap. 23.to your Pope alone, or Pope and Cleargie, you daily ſeduce many vnſetled and ignorant people. The word Church in our Engliſh tongue ſeemeth firſt of all to hauehave bene applied to the Temple, or place of Gods ſeruice, as if it were called Kyrke, of the Greeke oforeignforeign, as you would ſay the Lords houſe. But the Hebrew & Greek words, which muſt be the Iudges in this matter, ſignifie a Companie, Congregation, or Aſſemblie. The Hebrew foreignwords are two, the Greeke as many; the Latin, beſides the two Greeke made Latin, are diuers, Populi, people: Coetus, companie, congregatio, congregation: multitudo, multitude: turba, troope: concio, aſſembly: exercitus, armie. But the two Greeke words are beſt knowne, pforeign.Eccleſia and Synagôga: the former whereof commeth of the Hebrew, retaining almoſt the ſignification, and ſound thereof. In this, they all agree, that they note vntounto vsus a companie or aſſembly. But becauſe the Greeke foreign is the word, that moſt of all concerneth this queſtion, let vsus enquire of that the more diligently. The word, for the nature of it, ſignifieth any companie called together; generally any aſſembly lawfully or vnlawfully, orderly or diſorderly aſſembled. Of lawful aſſemblies there is no queſtion, of vnlawfull we hauehave an example qAct. 19. 25. 29. 40. 41.in the Scripture, where the people of Epheſus, tumultuouſly ranne together againſt Paul and Apollos. So doth the Hebrew word ſignifie in the Pſalmes, where rforeign & eccleſiam.the Greeke and Latine tranſlate by the ſame word: ſPſal. 25. 5.I hauehave hated the aſſembly of the wicked. But in the new teſtament, except that one place of the Acts, it is alwaies applied to them, that make profeſſion of religion. In which ſenſe it is ſometimes vſed indefinitely, t1. Cor. 12. 28.God hath ordained ſome in the Church, firſt Apoſtles &c. So the Apoſtle Paul ſaith, that u& 15. 9. Phil. 3. 6.he had perſecuted the Church of God. Thus may we alſo vnderſtād that, x1. Tim. 3. 15.The houſe of God, which is the Church of the liuing God: If we conceiue that the Apoſtle ſpeaketh to Timothie, as to an Euangeliſt, and not as to the Paſtor or Biſhop of Epheſus. Hitherto may thoſe places be referred, yAct. 2. 47.The Lord added to the Church from day to day: And z& 5. 11.great feare came on all the Church. Herode ſtretched forth his hand to vexe certaine of the Church: and ſuch like, though they may alſo be vnderſtood of the beleeuers, at thoſe times ordinarily abiding in Ieruſalem, and aſſembling themſelues together in one, or (which is the likelier) in diuers congregations, for exerciſe of religion. More particularly, and vſually, the Church is taken for anie one congregation aſſembled about matters of religion: aAct. 15. 22.It ſeemed good to the Apoſtles and Elders with the whole Church. Not as if the Apoſtles and Elders had bene no members of that Church, but the principall being firſt named, the generall terme is added, which comprehended all: as if they ſhould hauehave ſaid: The Apoſtles and Elders, and all the reſt of the Church at Ieruſalem: whereof, as it was a particular congregation, the Apoſtles, at that time were not members. And in this meaning may a Councell of diuers pariſhes, prouinces, or nations be called by the name of a Church; and in the like ſort may we call the aſſemblies & congregations in Rome, Coriath, Epheſus, the Churches of Rome, Corinth, Epheſus: becauſe of ſome common ſynod, or becauſe by the terme Church, the beleeuers are ſignified. Moſt vſually, the ſeuerall congregations in any countrie or Citie are called Churches, becauſe of their ordinarie aſſembling. bAct. 9. 31.Then had the Churches reſt, through all Iudea. c& 14. 23.When they had ordained them Elders by election in eueryevery Church. d1. Cor. 11. 16VVe hauehave no ſuch cuſtome, nor the Churches of God. When the title is applied to particular families, it hath no other meaning, as I take it, then to note them for Chriſtians or beleeuers. eRom. 16. 5. Philem. ver. 2.Greet the Church (that is the beleeuers) which are in their houſe. And thus much of the Church, as it ſignifieth generally Beleeuers.

The word Church, is vſed in the ſcriptures, and that verie often, not for all, but onelyonly for ſome beleeuers, namely, for ſuch as are indeed true beleeuers, in reſpect of true faith in Ieſus Chriſt: and theſe are alwaies of the elect: who are then called the Church, when they are brought to the knowledge of the truth, and to Iuſtifying faith: Therefore when we ſay that the Church ſignifieth the elect, or predeſtinate, we meane onelyonly ſuch of the elect, as by faith are members of our Sauiours bodie, he being the head. For howſoeuer, in the ſecret Counſell of God, many not yet borne, be predeſtinate to euerlaſting life; yet they are not to be accounted of this Church, before it hath pleaſed God to call them to beleeue in Chriſt.

Examples of the Church thus taken, amongſt many are theſe. fMat. 16. 18.VponUpon this rocke I will build my Church, and the gates of hell ſhall not preuaile against it. gEph. 1. 22. & 5. 23.God hath giuen Christ aboue all, the head of the Church. So hCol. 1. 24.the Church is called Chriſts bodie. This may ſerue, concerning the meaning of the wotd: out of which I obſerue this point, that ſince the terme Church is ſo diuerſly taken in the ſcripture, no argument from any place of Scripture can be of force to prooue any queſtion, till the ſignification of the word, in that place, be euident and certaine. And therefore it is not enough, for proofe of a matter in controuerſie betwixt vsus, to alledge a text of Scripture, where ſuch a thing is ſpoken of the Church, but it ſtands vsus vponupon to prooue, that in the place we alledge, by Church, the companie we intend, is ſignified. This being vnderſtood and remembred, I come now to the ſeuerall points in your Minor.

A. D. §. 4.

The promiſe of our Sauiour Chriſt we hauehave firſt in the Goſpell of Mat. cap. 28.Saint Matthew: Ego vobiſcum ſum omnibus diebus, vſque ad conſummationem ſeculi: I am with you all the daies, vntill the end of the world: in which words is promiſed the continuall preſence of Chriſt himſelfe, (who is veritas the truth it ſelfe) with his Church; not for a while then, or for a while now; but, all the daies vntill the end of the world. Secondly, we hauehave an other promiſe in the Goſpell of Saint Iohn: Ego rogabo Patrem, & alium paracletum Joan. 14.dabit vobis, vt maneat vobiſcum in aeternum, Spiritum veritatis. I will aske my Father, and he will giuegive you an other paraclite, the ſpirit of truth, that he may remaine with you (not onelyonly for 600. yeares) but for euer. And againe (in the ſame Saint Iohn) to ſhew vsus, for what purpoſe he would hauehave his holy Spirit remaine among vsus for euer; he ſaith, Paracletus quem mittet Pater in nomine Ioan. 14.meo, ille vos docebit omnia, & ſuggeret vobis omnia, quaecunque dixero vobis. The paraclite, whom my Father will ſend in my name, ſhall teach you all things, and ſhall put you in minde of all things whatſoeuer I ſhall ſay vntounto you. And againe, Cum venerit ille Spiritus veritatis, docebit vos omnem veritatem. Ioan. 16.When that ſpirit of truth ſhall come, he ſhall teach you all truth.

A. W.

The firſt point of your Minor is, that Chriſt promiſeth his preſence, and the aſſiſtance of his ſpirit, to teach them all truth. Firſt I demaund, whether our Sauiours preſence be for the teaching of all truth, or no: or whether that be onelyonly the office of the ſpirit? If the former, to what purpoſe is the ſpirit promiſed, whom our Sauiour hath appointed his vicegerent, as it were, in that matter; as the other places you alledge prooue? If it belong to the ſpirit, how is the preſence of Chriſt applied therunto? But to anſwer directly to the place, thus you diſpute.

If Chriſt hauehave promiſed to be with a companie of men, till the end of the world: then he hath promiſed it, that he might teach the Church all truth.

But he hath promiſed to be with a companie of men, till the end of the world.

Therefore he hath promiſed it, that he might teach them all truth.

Admit all this were granted: yet would it not follow hereupon, To the whole Syllogiſme.that the Church therefore could not erre: becauſe, as I anſwered before, perhaps they would not hauehave care to learne and remember all, though our Sauiour were readie to teach them all.

I denie the conſequence of your propoſition. Firſt, becauſe To the propoſition.they, to whom our Sauiour maketh this promiſe, are not the Church, as you vnderſtand the Church, that is, the Cleargie, of whoſe teaching you wholy ſpeake, but the faithfull ioyntly, and ſeuerally, as well hearers as teachers, as well eueryevery one, as all together. This appeareth by the text, iMat. 28. 19. 20.Go teach all nations &c. and behold I am with you, till the end of the world. With whom? With you that teach only? Nay rather with al beleeuers, kIoan. 17. 20.for all which he praied, as well as for the teachers. So hauehave the ancient writers expounded and vnderſtood this place. He doth not ſay, he will be with them onelyonly (ſaith lChryſoſt. in Math. hom. 91.Chryſoſtome) but alſo with all, that ſhall beleeue after them. For the Apoſtles were not to continue to the end of the world, but he ſpeaketh to the faithfull, as to one bodie. Chriſt ſheweth (ſaith mHieron. ad Matth. 28.Jerome) that he will neuer depart from them that beleeue. So doth nCyprian. epiſtola. 81. §. 1. ad Serg. Rogat. & caeteros.Cyprian make it common to all beleeuers, that confeſſe the truth of God in time of triall. So doth oLeo. ſer. de reſurrec. 2.Leo, to all, that are adopted. He that is gone vp into Heauen (ſaith Leo) doth not forſake them, that are adopted. So pBeda apud Thoan Cate. ad Mat. 28.Beda, he remaineth with his elect in this world protecting thē. To which purpoſe qAuguſt. in Ioan. tract. 50.S. Auſtin ſaith, that this promiſe is fulfilled by our Sauiour, in that he is preſent, according to his maieſtie, according to his prouidence, according to his vnſpeakable, and inuiſible grace. With all that beleeue, (ſaith rGaudent. ad Neophyt. de promiſ. Paracl.Gaudentius) I will be with you that is (ſaith ſDionyſ. Carthuſ. ad Mat. 28Denys the Charterhouſe monke) with you, and your ſucceſſors, and with all the faithfull, or militant Church. And thereupon he gathereth, that the faith ſhall neuer wholy faile, but Chriſtian religion ſhall continue in ſome till the end of the world. The like collection tRaban. Maur. ad Math. 28.Rabanus maketh, Hereby (ſaith he) it is vnderſtood, that there ſhall neuer be ſome wanting, till the ende of the world, who ſhall be worthie, or fit for God to dwell in. The Councell of Vienna (as uGregor. de Val. de praeſent. Chriſt. in Eucbar. cap. 11Gregorie de Valentia ſaith) expounded the place of Chriſt being preſent in the Sacrament: which is common to all beleeuers, lib. 3. Clement de reli que & vener. ſanctorum c. ſi Dominum.

Secondly, the conſequence is naught, becauſe the ende of Chriſts preſence is not to teach the Church all truth, but to protect and defend them by his power, in the profeſſion of the truth. So it is applied, as we heard before, by xCyprian. epiſtola 81. §. 1.Cyprian to the comfort of the Chriſtians then impriſoned for religion. So doth yAuguſt. in Ioan. tract 50.Auſtin take it, that he is preſent by his prouidence and diuine Maieſtie. The ſame is zHaymo. in homil. fer. 6. poſt paſch.Haymo his iudgement and expoſition. But aMartial. ad Toloſ. cap. 25.Martialis is moſt plaine, who by this promiſe exhorteth thē of Tholouſe in France to perſeuere in the profeſſion of religion, becauſe our Sauiour Chriſt will neuer leaue thē, but alwaies be preſent with them. He confirmeth and encourageth them (ſaith bTheoph. ad Mat. 28. & Chryſoſt. ibid.Theophylact) becauſe he ſent them to the Gentiles, into dangers and hazards of their liues: And cChryſoſt. ad. Mat. 28.Chryſoſtome thinketh (wherein alſo Theophyl. ſecondeth him) that our Sauiour mentioneth the end of the world, becauſe he would hauehave them with more patience and conſtancy, endure what ſoeuer hard meaſure for a time vponupon earth, in regard of the ioyes whereof they ſhould be made partakers in the world to come. If then this promiſe of our Sauiour, belong to all & eueryevery true beleeuer, if it be vttered for the comfort of all ſuch, that they may reſt vponupon his mighty protection, who ſeeth not that an impoſſibilitie of your Cleargies erring cannot be concluded from it?

1 The places of Iohn are thus to be concluded.

If our Sauiour hauehave promiſed the ſpirit of truth to a certain company of men, to abide with thē for euer, & teach thē all truth, then the teaching of theſe men is an aſſured ground of faith.

But Chriſt hath promiſed the ſpirit ſo to a certain cōpany of men.

Therfore the teaching of theſe men is an aſſured ground of faith.

Firſt I anſwer, that your concluſion proueth not the point in queſtion; becauſe this companie, to which the promiſe is made, is not the Church from time to time, but that promiſe belongeth to the Apoſtles, either onelyonly, or at the leaſt principally, in ſuch a meaſure of being taught. The former may thus appeare, becauſe our Sauiour ſpeaketh of another comforter, in reſpect of his owne bodily departure from them, which cannot belong to the Church now, with which Chriſt was neuer preſent in that ſort. Secondly, this ſpirit promiſed, was to bring all things that Chriſt had taught, to their remembrance, whom he ſhould teach. But this cannot belong to the preſent Church, nor to any Church ſince the Apoſtles. Thirdly, this ſending of the ſpirit was performed dAct. 2. 3. 4.when the holy Ghoſt came vponupon the Apoſtles; which doth not befall the Church now a dayes. Fourthly, the ſame ſpirit was to ſhew them the things to come, either concerning themſelues in particular, or by giuing them the gift of propheſie, which now the Church hath not. Thus do eTertul. de praeſcrip. cap. 8.Tertullian and fAuguſt. in Ioan. tract. 75.Auſtin vnderſtand theſe places, applying them to the Apoſtles: ſo doth gIanſen harm. cap. 134.Ianſenius biſhop of Gaunt; ſo hChryſoſt. in Ioan. hom. 74.Chryſoſtome and iTheophyl. in Ioan 14.Theophylact; ſo your ordinary Gloſſes and Lyra. And whereas this interpretation may ſeeme to be refuted by the place it ſelfe, becauſe the ſpirit muſt abide with them, to whom he is promiſed, for euer: that is expounded by kNeque poſt mortem abit. Chryſ. vbi ſupr.Chryſoſtome, to ſignifie his continuance with them, euen after death alſo. Which lHugo Cardin. ad Ioan. 14. Theoph. vbi ſupra.Theophylact ſets out more at large. His companie with you (ſaith our Sauiour) ſhall not be for a time, as mine; but ſhall continue for euer: neither ſhall it faile when you are dead, but ſhall remaine with you, and ſhall make you more glorious. He promiſeth (ſaith mGloſs. ordin. ad Joan. 16.your Gloſſe) that the ſpirit ſhall do all; not that all is fulfilled in this life. This Comforter (ſaith nLyra ad Joa. 14.Lyra) ſhall not be taken from you, as my humane nature is drawne away by death: but ſhall be with you eternally, here by grace, but in the world to come by glorie. We may (perhaps) conceiue our Sauiours meaning to be no more, but that the ſpirit which hee would ſend, ſhould not leaue them as he was to do, but ſhould abide with them to the very end of their liues, for their inſtruction and comfort: neither of which are needfull any longer then while we are in this world.

They that apply theſe promiſes to all the elect alſo (for to any viſible companie of men, I thinke beſides you Papiſts, no man doth) neither make for your opinion; becauſe they tie them not to any companie, but giuegive eueryevery true Chriſtian his like part in the priuiledge of this ſpirit, and (as we heard ere while out of your oGloſs. ordin. vti ſupra.ordinary Gloſſe) leaue ſome truth to be reuealed in the life to come. I do not thinke (ſaith pAuguſt. ad Ioan. tract. 96.Auſtin) that in this life the promiſe of being taught all truth, can be fulfilled in any mans mind. For who liuing in this bodie which is corrupted, and preſſeth downe the ſoule, can know all truth; when the Apoſtle ſaith, We know in part. By which it is alſo apparent, that according to Auſtins iudgement, for euer, may be vnderſtood of continuing after this life.

Secondly, if theſe places proue, that the Church is a ſure foundation or rule of faith; it muſt follow, that eueryevery particular Of the Aſſumption.teacher is ſo. For eueryone of them, to whom our Sauior made theſe promiſes, was ſeuerally according thereunto taught all truth, and not all ioyntly; as if they might hauehave erred being ſeuered, which you confeſſe of your Church: and therefore this teaching appertaineth not to it.

Of the ſeuerall places I ſay further, that qIoan. 14. 17.in the firſt of them there is no mention of teaching all truth, but onelyonly of ſending the ſpirit of truth. That is (ſaith rTheophyl. ad Ioan. 14. Hugo Cardin. ibi.Theophylact) the ſpirit, not of the old Teſtament (for that was a figure and a ſhadow) but of the new, which is the truth. The ſpirit of truth (ſaith ſLyra. ibi.Lyra) becauſe he is eſſentially the truth, and teacheth the truth. He calleth him the ſpirit of truth (ſaith tIanſen. harm. cap. 134.Ianſenius) becauſe he is the author of all truth, and the only giuer of pure and ſound truth. For he onelyonly teacheth the truth, without mixture of any falſhood or error: Alſo he only teacheth the truth, wherein the ſaluation of man conſiſteth.

uJoan. 14. 26.In the ſecond place you hauehave followed the vulgar Latine againſt the truth of the Greeke and ſenſe of the text. The Greek is, xforeignAll that I hauehave told you: not as you tranſlare it, All that I ſhall ſay vntounto you. It is the praeter tenſe (ſaith your B. yIanſen. vti ſupra.Ianſenius) not the future, in the Greeke. So do Pagnin, Vatablus, and Montanus tranſlate it. The holy Ghoſt (ſaith zTheophyl. ad Joan. 14.Theophylact) ſhall make you vnderſtand thoſe things that are obſcure and hard. For thoſe things that ſeeme hard vntounto you, I told you when I remained with you. Your interlined Gloſſe referreth teaching to the vnderſtanding, and putting in mind to the will. He ſhall teach you (ſaith the aGloſſ. interl. ibi.Gloſſe) that you may know; and bSuggerit, vt velitis.ſuggeſt, that you may will. Tell me then, why I may not gather from hence, that the Church ſhal not erre in manners; or at leaſt ſhall hauehave true faith in heart, not onelyonly in profeſſion? But it is certain, that it is poſſible, the greater part of a Councell, yea and the Pope himſelfe may be without true faith: and it is enough to make a man a member of your church, cBellar. de Eccleſ. mil. lib. 3. cap. 10.that he profeſſe outwardly.

By all truth dIoan. 16. 13.our Sauiour meaneth all truth neceſſary to ſaluation, ſaith eIanſen harm. cap. 134.Ianſenius. fGloſſ. ordin. ibi.So your Gloſſe. gTheophyl. ad Joan. 16. Hugo Cardin. ad Ioan. 16.Theophylact referreth it to the truth of thoſe things which were ſhadowed out in the law: and by the diſcouerie of the truth to be aboliſhed. Hugo reſtraineth it to all truth, concerning Chriſt himſelfe. But let vsus take all truth as largely as you can reaſonably conceiue it. Wil it follow therupō trow you, that therefore the teaching of the Church is the rule of faith? May not the Church be taught all truth by the holy Ghoſt, and yet teach ſome deuice of her owne which ſhe neuer learned of him? It is one thing to teach a man all truth, and another to keepe him ſo, that he ſhal deliuer nothing but that truth. Your Minor therefore is falſe, becauſe this firſt part of it is ſo.

A. D. §. 5.

The charge and commiſſion is plaine in S. Mathew: Euntes docete omnes gentes: Going teach all nations. And in S. Marke: Euntes Math. 28. Mark 16.in mundum vniuerſum, praedicate Euangelium omni creaturae: Going into the whole world, preach the Gospell to eueryevery creature.

A. W.

The charge which hMath. 28. 19our Sauior gaue for preaching the Goſpell to all nations, was no commaundement to his Church, that is, to the companie of the beleeuers, or to the Cleargie, as you ſpeake, in all ages; but a commiſſion to the Apoſtles and firſt Diſciples, for the performance of that dutie. The reaſon, why it is deliuered ſo at large, may be gathered out of iMat. 10. 5.Mathew 10. ch. where at their firſt ſending they were limited to the lost ſheepe of the houſe of Iſrael, and barred from going to the Gentiles. Go not (ſaith our Sauiour) into the way of the Gentiles, and into the cities of the Samaritans enter not: but go rather to the loſt ſheepe of the houſe of Iſrael. And that this charge belongeth not to men now a dayes, it is euident, becauſe neither doth our Sauiour beſtow the gift of tongues to that purpoſe, as kAct 2. 5.he did on thoſe whom he ſent to that worke; neither can we hauehave any calling to ſuch a purpoſe, hauing no gifts for it: yet do not we denie but that it is lawfull for Princes, who hauehave by conqueſt or otherwiſe the gouernment of ſtrange nations, to ſee that they be inſtructed in the faith; yea we thinke this lieth vponupon them, as a neceſſary dutie. Neither do we barre any man of taking whatſoeuer oportunitie God ſhall giuegive, to preach the Goſpell to any people. lRuſſin. hiſt. lib. 1. cap. 10.A captiue maide was by the bleſſing of God made the meanes of conuerting the Iberians from heatheniſme to Chriſtianitie: the King of that people (as the hiſtorie ſaith) becoming the Apoſtle of his nation. mSozom. lib. 2 cap. 23.Frumentius and Aedeſius being caried into India when they were yong, were afterward employed by God for the inſtructing of the Indians in true religion. But your minor is not proued by that commiſſion. Chriſt commanded his Apoſtles and Diſciples in the beginning of the Church, to preach to all nations: therefore the Church hath commiſſion to do the like now. Beſides, this charge was layd vponupon eueryevery one of the Apoſtles and all the diſciples ſo furniſhed with the gift of tongues, according as the Apoſtles thought it meete to employ them. Doth this commandement bind your church, that is, either your Pope who wil not preach at home, much leſſe will he go abroade to all quarters of the world; or your Councels, who ſeuerall are not the church? And this charge lay vponupon them, to whom it was giuen, ſeuerally, and was not a matter to be performed by all together in one place. Therefore your minor is falſe alſo in the ſecond part of it, concerning the charge, which (you ſay) is giuen to the Church, to preach to all nations. For your Church is (as I hauehave ſaid) your Bb. aſſembled in Councel, not your Clergie men ſeuerally one by one. And it is not our Sauiors meaning to hauehave ſuch a kind of teaching.

A. D. §. 6.

The warrant we hauehave in S. Luke: Qui vos audit, me audit: He Luk. 10.that heareth you, heareth me. By which words appeareth plainly, that our Sauior Chriſt would hauehave vsus to heare and giuegive credit to his church, no leſſe then to himſelfe.

A. W:

Our Sauiour nLuk. 10. 16.by this place hath warranted all men to heare them that teach thoſe things which hee commaunded to be taught; beſides which, if any man teach his owne fancies for matters of faith, that of the Apoſtle belongeth to him, oGal. 1. 8.Let him be accurſed. The Apoſtles were abſolutely to be heard, without exceptiō, as Chriſt himſelf: all other teachers, only ſo far as they ſpeake according to the word of God. He teacheth by this (ſaith pCyril. Alexā. a pud Thom. in catena.Cyril) that whatſoeuer the holy Apostles deliuer, is to be receiued: becauſe he that heareth them, heareth Chriſt. Our Sauiour addeth this in the end (ſaith qLyra ad Luc. 10. 16.Lyra) to ſhew that the doctrine of his diſciples is deuoutly and reuerently to be heard, at the leaſt for reuerence of God, whoſe principally that doctrine is. But what doth this concerne the church? Surely, if it may be enforced to make vsus heare any beſides the Apoſtles, without limiting of our hearing, we are bound ſo to heare at the leaſt eueryevery B. Theſe words (ſaith rBellar. de Pontif. Rom. lib. 4. cap. 16. §. Quae verba.Bellarmine) belong properly to the Apoſtles and to their ſucceſſors: neither may it be ſaid that this was ſpoken to all of them ioyntly, and not to eueryevery one ſeuerally. Now if it be abſurd, and worſe, to hold that we hauehave warrant to heare eueryevery B. whatſoeuer he teach, doubtleſſe this place proueth nothing for hearing the Church. For by vertue of this ſpeech, the Apoſtles were to be heard, without any exception. If then it belong to their ſucceſſors, which are (as you ſay) Bb. as fully as to them, eueryevery B. muſt be heard and beleeued, teach he what he wil. I wil yet ſay more: our Sauior ſpeaketh this of the 72. diſciples, and ſLuc. 10.of eueryevery two of them at the leaſt. Now your opinion is, that your ordinary Prieſts ſucceed them, as Biſhops do the Apoſtles. Hence it will follow, that whatſoeuer any two Prieſts preach, that muſt be holden for as certaine a truth, as if Chriſt himſelfe had ſpoken it. Do you not ſee then, that this muſt needs be reſtrained either to the Apoſtles, or to the doctrine taught? He that heareth you, preaching that which I hauehave charged you to preach, heareth me. So doth tGloſſ. interl. ad Luc. 10.your Gloſſe limit the latter part of the ſentence, He that despiſeth you, that is, He that will not beleeue in Chriſt. Indeed he that refuſeth to beleeue in Chriſt, by the miniſterie of men, refuſeth Chriſt himſelfe, whoſe doctrine it is, that we ſhould beleeue in him. Therfore your minor is falſe alſo in regard of the third part thereof: We hauehave no warrant to heare any man, the Apoſtles being dead, but ſo farre onelyonly as he agreeth with the Scriptures.

A. D. §. 7.

The commandement is expreſſed in S. Mathew: Super Cathedram Mat. 23.Moyſi ſederunt Scribae & Phariſaei. Omnia ergo quaecunque dixerint vobis, ſeruate & facite. The Scribes and Phariſies hauehave ſitten vponupon the chaire of Moſes, All things therefore whatſoeuer they ſhall ſay vntounto you, obſerue and do. Out of which words we may gather, that we are bound in all points to do according to the doctrine of the Prelates of the Catholicke Church, yea, although it ſhould happen that their liues were not laudable but bad. For although our Sauiour in this place doth onelyonly in expreſſe words make mention of the chaire of Moſes, in which the Prieſts of the old Law did ſit: yet he is to be vnderſtood to ſpeake alſo of the chaire of S. Peter, his owne Vicegerent, in which the Prieſts of the new law do ſucceed. And this à fortiori, becauſe we hauehave greater reaſon to thinke that our Sauiour intended in his doctrine to giuegive rules to the Prieſts and people of his new law, which was preſently to begin, and to continue till the worlds end, then onelyonly to giuegive documents to thoſe of the old Law, conſidering he knew that it ſhould ſo ſhortly ceaſe. Wherefore the auncient fathers do vnderſtand that place to be meant of the Priests of the new Law, and namely S. Auguſtine, who ſaith thus: In illum ordinem Epiſcoporum, qui ducitur ab ipſo Petro ad Epiſt. 165.Anaſtaſium, qui nunc in eadem Cathedra ſedet, etiamſi quiſquam traditor per illa tempora ſubrepſiſſet, nihil praeiudicaret Eccleſiae, & innocentibus Chriſtianis; quibus prouidens, Dominus ait, de praepoſitis malis: quae dicunt, facite; quae faciunt, facere nolite. Into that order of Biſhops, which is deriued from S. Peter himſelfe vntounto Anaſtaſius, who now ſitteth vponupon the ſame chaire, although ſome traitor had crept in, in thoſe times, he ſhould nothing hurt the Church and the innocent Chriſtians, for whom our Lord prouiding, ſaith of euill Prelates: What they ſay, do; what they do, do not.

A. W.

This is the only point, which is able to make good the conſequence of your propoſition: and therefore if you faile in the proofe of this, all is naught. But out of doubt, you faile here exceedingly, and ſo your reaſon comes to nothing.

He that commaunds the Iewes to do whatſoeuer the Scribes and Phariſies who ſit vponupon Moſes chaire ſay, bindeth all to do in all things according to the ſaying of the Church.

But uMat. 23. 2.our Sauiour ſo commandeth the Iewes.

Therefore he bindeth all to do in all things according to the ſaying of the Church.

Firſt I ſay of this ſyllogiſme as of the two laſt points, that if it giuegive any authoritie to your Church, it giueth the ſame to eueryevery particular teacher. For the Scribes and Phariſes did expound the law of Moſes, not in Councels onelyonly, but eueryevery one ſeuerally in the ſynagogues where they were appointed to teach. Therefore if it be abſurd to conclude vponupon this text, that eueryevery Scribe and Phariſey was then, and eueryevery Preacher lawfully called is now to be heard, whatſoeuer he teach, ſure no ſuch matter can be wrung out of this place for the Church.

Secondly, this reaſon maketh the Scribes and Phariſes the Church, ſhutting out the high Prieſt himſelfe, and all other prieſts that were not either Scribes or Phariſes: yea it preſumeth (which is vtterly falſe) that the Scribes and Phariſes were ſucceſſors to Moſes in an ordinarie courſe of authoritie, as you ſay your Church, that is your Pope and Bb. ſucceed Peter and the reſt of the Apoſtles. Can ſuch an argument proue a matter of ſuch importance and doubt?

Your propoſition implieth, that our Sauiour intended to giuegive rules concerning Saint Peters authoritie, whom you call Of the propoſition.his Vicegerent. Who wold trifle ſo, in a queſtiō of ſuch weight? Firſt proue his office, and your Popes right to it; and then frame ſuch arguments: otherwiſe any man of neuer ſo little iudgment may find more cauſe to pity or diſdaine your proofe or preſumption, then to ſtagger at the force of your reaſon. All things in the Scripture were indeed writtē for our learning, and therfore belong to vsus ſo far as the general doctrine reacheth, & the particular circumſtances are alike. Wherefore I grant your propoſition, not becauſe of any ſucceſſion, which could not be in thoſe Scribes and Phariſes, being of diuers tribes, and (as your xGenebrard. chron. lib. 2.Genebrard ſaith) hauing thruſt themſelues into the chaire of Moſes being empty: but becauſe they expoūded the law of Moſes among the Iewes, as the Miniſters of Chriſt do the Goſpell, at this day to the Chriſtians.

Ere I anſwer to your Aſſumption, I muſt ſpeake a word of To the Aſſumption.your tranſlation, yforeign.hauehave ſitten. The Greeke indeed is ſo, but (as zVatablus ibi.Vatablus noteth) the praeter tenſe is put for the preſent tenſe. Therefore aPagnin. ibi.Pagnine doubteth not ſo to tranſlate it, ſedent, ſit. Which muſt needs be our Sauiours meaning. For how were it agreeable to reaſon, that he ſhould charge vsus to heare the Scribes and the Phariſes, becauſe they did ſometimes ſit vponupon Moſes chaire, if now they ſit beſide it? It is our Sauiours purpoſe to ſignifie, that the expoſitions of the former Phariſies, and of thoſe that taught in his time, were not to be reiected: or rather, it is al one, as if he had ſaid, bAlfonſ. Salm. prolegom. 15. Reg. 3. ſederūt. i. e. ſedent.do ſit. But let vsus reade the place which way we liſt, it is all one to your minor; which I denie. To the proofe of it out of the text, I anſwer: Firſt, the ſitting vponupon Moſes chaire, ſignifieth not ſucceſſion, but teaching the law of Moſes. For cExod. 3. 10. & 19. 20. & 21. 1.Moſes calling was altogether extraordinarie from God, both for gouerning and teaching. In the former, Ioſua and the Iudges ſucceeded him, d1. Sam. 8. 7.till the people were wearie of Gods ruling of them. The other part of his office was to be diſcharged ordinarily by the Prieſts and Leuits. eLeuit. 10. 11. Deut. 31. 9. 19:That ye may teach the children of Iſrael all the ſtatutes which the Lord hath commaunded them by the hand of Moſes. fMal. 2. 7.The Prieſts lips ſhould preſerue knowledge, and they ſhould ſeeke the Law at his mouth. gNeh. 8. 8. 9.Ieſhua and Bani, &c. and the Leuites cauſed the people to vnderſtand the law. And they read in the booke of the Law of God diſtinctly, and gaue the ſenſe, and cauſed them to vnderſtand the reading. It was one thing to ſucceed Aaron, another to ſit on Moſes chaire. The chaire of Moſes (ſaith hCyril. Hieroſ. catech. 12.Cyril) ſignifieth power of doctrine. They ſit in Moſes chaire (ſaith iOrige. in Mat. hom. 24.Origen) which interprete Moſes ſayings well, and according to reaſon. And a little after: The Scribes and Phariſes ſit naughtily vponupon Moſes chaire: they ſat wel, that well vnderſtood the law. What is the meaning of that (ſaith kAmbr. enar. in Pſal. 43.Ambroſe) The Scribes ſat; but becauſe letters are written? whereupon the Scribes in Greeke are called lforeign in Greeke is a letter.foreign, following the interpretation of the letter, not the ſenſe of the ſpirit. And afterward: Therefore they teaching thoſe things that Moſes wrote, &c. So doth mTheophyl. ad Mat. 23.Theophylact expound it. They that ſit in Moſes chaire: that is, that teach the things, that are in the law. And immediately before. They that exhort to euill life, do not then teach out of Moſes chaire, nor out of the Law. Therefore to ſit vponupon Moſes chaire, is nothing elſe, but to hauehave authoritie to expound Moſes Law, as he himſelfe did expound it. So the Miniſters of the Goſpell may be ſaid to ſit vponupon the Apoſtles chaire, becauſe they hauehave authority to interpret the Goſpel, which the Apoſtles themſelues preached.

Secondly, I denie that our Sauiour commanded the Iewes, or doth now charge vsus, to beleeue whatſoeuer, they that hauehave authority to teach vsus, deliuer, or to do whatſoeuer they enioyne. This is apparent, becauſe himſelfe refuteth & condemneth their interpretations and doctrines many times: as Mat. 5. In many points of which, that one is moſt cleare, nMat. 5. 43 44Ye hauehave heard, that it hath bene ſaid, thou ſhalt louelove thy neighbour, & hate thine enemie: but I ſay vntounto you, louelove your enemies &c. oMat. 15. 11.In vaine do they worſhip me, teaching for doctrines mens traditions. And in the ſame place, he calleth them blinde leaders of the blind: and addeth further, that if the blinde lead the blinde, both fall into the ditch. Now verſ. 14.can any man be ſo impious, I might ſay blaſphemous, as to ſay, that our Sauiour commaunded the Iewes to take ſuch a courſe, as ſhould certainely bring them to deſtruction? Nay rather he warneth them to take heed of their doctrine. pMat. 16. 6Take heed and beware, (he doubleth his admonition to make them more carefull) of the leauen of the Phariſes: And what was this leauen? qverſ. 12.The doctrine of the Phariſes, ſaith the Euangeliſt. But what need we go out of this chapter for the point in queſtion? Doth he not afterwards call them rMat. 23. 16.blinde guides, verſ. 16. 24. fooles & blind, verſ. 17. 19? Doth he not in the ſame places, condemne and confute their abſurd and lewde doctrine of ſwearing? A man would wonder, that euer any man profeſſing himſelfe a ſcholler or teacher, ſhould bring ſuch miſerable proofes in matters of ſo great weight. But alaſſe we muſt beare with you, you bring ſuch as you hauehave; if you knew any better, we ſhould be ſure to hauehave them. But theſe ſerue to deceiue your deuoted followers; who wilfully ſhut their eies againſt the truth. The iudgements of God are paſt ſearching out, and his merciemercy in opening our eies to ſee your groſſneſſe, greater then we are able to conceiue.

Well, yet perhaps you hauehave ſome colour from antiquitie to countenance your expoſition withall. You quote Auſtin: what? None but Auſtin in a matter of ſo great doubt? But let vsus ſee why you quote him. If to prooue that the Phariſies were to be heard and obeyed in all things, there is no ſuch word in his ſentence alledged by you. For he ſaith no more, then we grant, that ſAuguſt. epiſtola. 165.Our Sauiour prouided before hand, that we ſhould not refuſe good doctrine, becauſe it was deliuered by wicked men. Indeed that was the verie purpoſe of our Sauiour, and to that doth tAuguſt. in Ioan. tract. 46.Auſtin apply it otherwhere, according to the true ſenſe of it. What ſaith he elſe, but heare the voice of the ſheepheard, though by hirelings? ſuch as Auſtin in that place ſaith the Pharifies and Scribes were: and ſuch as uMat. 23. 5. 6. 13. 14. 23.our Sauiour proueth them to be by their hypocriſie, ambition, & couetouſneſſe. The Apostle ſheweth (ſaith xAuguſt. de bapt. contra Donat. lib. 4. cap. 11.Auſtin in an other place) that men without charitie may teach ſomewhat, that is wholſome: of ſuch our Lord ſpeaketh, They ſit vponupon Moſes chaire &c. Whereupon alſo the Apoſtle ſpeaking of enuious and malitious men, yet ſuch as preached ſaluation by Chriſt, ſaith; yPhil. 1. 18.Whether by occaſion, or in truth Chriſt be preached, Ireioice. And zAuguſt. de dect. Chriſt. lib. 4. cap. 27.in a third place, He that ſpeaketh wiſely and eloquently, but liueth wickedly, teacheth many that are deſirous to learne, but is vnprofitable to his own ſoule, as it is written. The Scribes and Phariſies ſit in Moſes chaire, do that they ſay, but do not that they do. For they ſay & do not, to which he addeth that to the Philippians, as in the other place. But yet Auſtin was ſo farre from tying either the Iewes, becauſe of our Sauiours ſpeech, or any men, vponupon any pretence, to beleeue whatſoeuer ſhould be taught them, though by men lawfully authoriſed, that he forbids all to heare, when men preach their owne deuiſes. By ſitting on Moſes chaire (ſaith aAuguſt. in Ioan tract. 46.he) they teach the Law of God, therefore God teacheth by them. But if they will teach their owne ſayings (obſerue that Auſtin thinks it is poſſible they ſhould) heare them not, do not. An euill man (ſaith bAuguſt cont. liter. Petilia. lib. 2. cap. 6.the ſame author) out of the euill treaſure of his heart, bringeth forth euill things. But when he preacheth the word of God, when he miniſtreth the Sacraments, he preacheth not, nor miniſtreth not of his owne, if he be a wicked man, but is to be counted among them, of whom it is ſaid, do that they ſay, but do not that they do. For as we heard before out of cTheophyl. ad Mat. 23.Theophylact, he that exhorteth to euill life, ſpeaketh neither from Moſes chaire, nor from the Law. Therefore (as it followeth in him) they that teach the Law of God, are to be heard, though they do it not. So doth dChryſoſt. ad Hebr. hom. 34.Chryſoſtome vnderſtand and apply this text, What then will ſome men ſay? ſhall we obey our Prelates, when they are euill? How meane you euill? If it be in a point of faith, ſlie and auoid him, not onelyonly if he be a man, but if an Angel come downe from heauen. But if you meane, that he is euill in his behauiour, be not curious. Neither ſpeake I this of my ſelfe, but of the Scripture. For eMat. 23. 2.Chriſt ſaith, the Scribes and Phariſies ſit on Moſes Chaire. And when firſt he had recited many euil things of them, then he faith: They ſit vponupon Moſes chaire, All things, that they ſay vntounto you, do; but do not, as they do: They are to be reuerenced (ſaith he) though they be of a wicked life: but heed you not their liuing, but their preaching. For concerning their manners, no man can be hurt by thē. How ſo? Becauſe that they do, is manifeſt to all, and though they ſhould come to the height of iniquitie, they could not teach other men that their euill. But when a point of faith is in queſtion, neither doth euerie bodie perceiue manifeſtly that which is ſpoken, neither will a lewde fellow be afraid to teach contrarie to truth. For whereas as it is faid, fMat. 7. 1.Iudge not, that ye be not iudged, that is ſpoken of life, not of faith. This is Chryſoſtomes iudgement, and that where he expoundeth gHeb. 13. 17.one of the principall places, which you bring to ſupport your vnreaſonable authoritie. The Scribes and Phariſes (ſaith hO pus imperf. in Mat. homil. 43.another) ſit on Moſes chaire: that is, there are many Prieſts, and few prieſts; many in name, few in deed. Take heed therefore how you ſit vponupon that ſeate: for the ſeate maketh not the prieſt, but the prieſt the ſeate: the place ſanctifieth not the man, but the man the place. Your owne writers are of the ſame opiniō, cōcerning this place. Two things (ſaith iIanſe. harm. cap. 120.Ianſenius) are here ſignified: firſt that obedience is due to thē which teach and command by authoritie, not in reſpect of their life, but of their authority, which they hauehave, and becauſe of God, whoſe Embaſſadors they are. Secondly that we muſt not obey them, if they commaund or teach any thing wickedly. For if they are to be obeied, becauſe they ſit in Moſes chaire, thē are they not to be obeied, when they teach or commaund any thing againſt that chaire. The Lord ſaith abſolutely, All, and whatſoeuer, that he might ſhew, that they muſt be perfectly obeied; but yet with ſuch an obediēce, as layeth this for a ground, that we muſt obey God, rather thē man: as kCol. 3. 20.the Apoſtle Paul ſaith. Children obey your parēts in all things. Chriſt (ſaith lMontanus elucid. in Mat. 23.Arias Montanus) taught his Diſciples to obſerue, and doe whatſoeuer the Scribes and Phariſies commaunded, by the preſcript of the Law, that is out of Moſes chaire. Chriſt did not meane (ſaith mIoan. Ferus in Math. lib. 3.Ferus) that they ſhould obſerue all the decrees of the Phariſies, but ſo farre forth as they agreed with the Law. As farre as they teach thoſe things, which Moſes taught in the chaire, they are to be beard, otherwiſe to be taken heed of, as ſaith nStella. ad Luc. cap. 12Stella. The Lord (ſaith oMaldonat. ad Math. 23.one of your famous Ieſuits) by the chaire of Moſes, doth not vnderſtand the doctrine of the Phariſies, but the doctrine of Moſes Law: For it is all one, as if he had ſaid, All that the Law and Moſes ſay to you. Chriſt (ſaith pCaſſander conſult. art. 7. See Dionyſ. Carthuſian. ad Mat. 23.Caſſander) commaundeth vsus to heare the Phariſies, yet ſo, that we muſt take heede of the leauen of the Phariſies, that is corruptions of their life and doctrine.

But you will ſay qAuguſt. epiſt. 165. ad Generoſum.Auſtin telleth vsus, that it ſhould nothing hauehave hurt the Church, and innocent Chriſtians, if ſome traitor had crept into that ſea. What elſe hauehave we ſhewed all this while, but that the wickedneſſe of euill Prelates muſt not make their doctrine, as long as it is true, leſſe regarded? Auſtin, in that Epiſtle, anſwers a certaine Donatiſts letter, who bragged of ſucceſſion from Donatus the author of that ſect: againſt whoſe brag he ſetteth that Catalogue of the Biſhops of Rome, amongſt whom there was neuer a Donatiſt; but if there had bene, yet ſhould not that hauehave preiudiced the Church, or the innocent Chriſtians: as if the doctrine, they held, were not true, becauſe ſome lewd or hereticall reacher, had ſometime bene Biſhop of that Citie. rAuguſt. epiſt. 265. 160. & contra lit Petilian. lib. 2. cap. 14. 23.We know it was vſuall with the Donatiſts, to crie out againſt the true Catholicke Biſhops, for their conuerſation, which they alſo ſlaundered: therefore had Auſtin good reaſon to ſpeake, as he did, that no man might be caried away from the truth of then doctrine, by the ſuppoſed wickednes of their liues. I hauehave bene ſomewhat the longer in this point, becauſe (as I ſignified) it is the onelyonly proofe of this controuerſie. Now I leaue the conſideration of it to all reaſonable men, that they bethinke themſelues, whether it be not meere ſimplicitie, or rather wilfull ignorance, to be drawne away from the truth of the Goſpell vponupon a pretence of hearing the Church, when there is not a ſyllable, nor a letter, in the ſcripture, to tie a man to ſuch blind obedience, whereupon nothing can enſue, but deſtruction.

A. D. §. 8.

The threats we may gather firſt out of Saint Luke, when our Sauiour Luc. 10.ſaith, Qui vos ſpernit, me ſpernit. He that deſpiſeth you, deſpiſeth me. Signifying, that looke what ſinne it were, not to heare, but to deſpiſe our Sauiour Chriſt himſelfe, that we ſhould account it the ſame, to deſpiſe, and not to giuegive eare, and credit, to the Catholicke Church. Inſinuating thereby, that the like puniſhment is to he expected, for the ſaid contempt. Secondly, in Saint Mathew, the ſame our Sauiour expreſly ſaith; Si Eccleſiam non audierit, ſit tibi Matth. 18.ſicut Ethnicus & publicanus, If he will not heare the Church, let him be to thee like an Ethnicke and a Publican. Finally, in Saint Marke, after he had giuen charge and commiſſion to preach the Goſpell to euerie creature, he pronounceth this threat to thoſe that will not beleeue, ſaying: Qui non crediderit Mark. 16.condemnabitur, He that will not beleeue, ſhall be condemned.

A. W.

This is the laſt point in your Aſſumption, and thus it is to be concluded.

He, that deſpiſeth our Sauiour, that is to be accounted as an heathen or Publican, that ſhall be condemned, is greatly threatned in Scripture.

But he that will not heare the Church, and doe in all things according to the ſaying thereof, deſpiſeth our Sauiour, &c.

Therefore he that will not heare the Church, and doe in all things according to the ſaying thereof, is greatly threatned in Scripture.

I denie your Minor: and will anſwer to the ſeuerall proofes To the aſaſſumption.of it. To fLuc. 10. 16.the firſt whereof I ſhall need to ſay little, becauſe I ſpake ſufficiently of the former part of that text, at the third point. The ſumme is, that this threatning (as the warrant) is not vttered, in reſpect of any Church, or companie, but of ſeuerall teachers, and preachers; and therefore, if we may not conclude from hence, that he, which heareth not eueryevery miniſter, and doth in all things according to his ſaying, is guiltie of theſe crimes; no more is he, that performeth not the like dutie to a cōpany of Paſtors or biſhops aſſembled together. Secondly, if it were ſpokē of the Church, yet were not any man to be held faulty in ſuch a meaſure, but he onelyonly, that refuſeth the miniſterie of the Goſpell, and embraceth not the doctrine thereof, as the onelyonly way of ſaluation. Therefore ſaid our Sauiour in the ſame chapter and matter: tLuc. 10. 10. 11Into whatſoeuer Citie ye ſhall enter, if they will not receiue you, go your waies out into the ſtreets of the ſame, and ſay, euen the verie dust, which cleaueth on vsus of your Citie, we wipe off againſt you. So did uAct. 13. 51.the Apoſtles againſt the Iewes of Antioch in Piſidia, for their contempt of the Goſpell. They ſhooke off the duſt of their feet againſt them. Thus (as I ſignified before,) xGloſſ. interl. ad Luc. 10.your gloſſe vnderſtandeth it: He that deſpiſeth you, ſo that he will not beleeue in Chriſt. Is it all one to deſpiſe a man, and not to aſſent to the truth of whatſoeuer he ſpeaketh? This may proceed, and doth ordinarily, from an error of iudgement; that commeth alwaies from a reſolute determination of the will. Thirdly, as hearing, ſo deſpiſing muſt be vnderſtood, not ſimply but when the parties to be heard or deſpiſed, preach the truth of Ieſus Chriſt, according to his word. For there is no commaundement, as I ſhewed in handling of the laſt point, that bindeth vsus any farther to obedience, or makes vsus liable to puniſhment, then the things deliuered are agreeable to the word of God: vnleſſe we do againſt our conſcience. Therefore your ſpeech of your Catholicke Church, is but idle, there being no ſpeech, nor thought of it in this place, but onelyonly a charge to heare the Apoſtles ſimply, becauſe they could not erre: other teachers iointly, or ſeuerally, though the latter be properly intended, ſo farre forth, as they ſpeake agreeably to the Scriptures, and ſo do not erre.

Firſt, I ſay yMat. 1…. 17.this place is not to purpoſe, becauſe it ſpeaketh of a man alreadie in the Church, a beleeuer by profeſſion: whereas your queſtion is of him, that is no Chriſtian, but to be made a beleeuer by giuing credit to that, which ſhall be preached to him. That it is to be vnderſtood of beleeuers onelyonly, the text it ſelfe ſpeaketh. If thy brother: z1. Cor. 5. 11.If anie man that is called a brother. Thy brother: that is a Chriſtian (ſaith aTheophyl. ad Mat. 18.Theophylact) For our Lord hath appointed no ſuch courſe to be taken (ſaith bChryſoſt. in Mat. hom. 62.Chryſoſtome) with them, that are out of the Church. But this is meant of him, that vnderunder the name of a beleeuer (ſaith cHieron. ad Mat. 18.Ierome) plaieth the Infidell. A brother (ſaith dIanſen. harm. cap. 72.Ianſenius) is here vnderſtood not to be euerie neighbour, or euerie man, but he, that is a Christian of the ſame religion with vsus. His reaſons are, firſt, becauſe our Sauiour ſaith, Tell the Church; but the Church hath nothing to doe, in ſuch caſes, with thoſe that are not members of it: What hauehave I to do (ſaith e1. Cor. 5. 12.Paul) to iudge them, that are without? Secondly, becauſe an Heathen and Publican are alreadie out of the Church, and ſo the cenſure here appointed cannot concerne them.

Secondly, by not hearing the Church, our Sauiour doth not meane, not beleeuing all points of doctrine, the Church deliuereth, (of which there was no occaſion for him to ſpeake, at that time) but refuſing to be ordered by the Church, and deſpiſing the admonition thereof. So is hearing and not hearing there to be vnderſtood. If he heare thee: what is that? If he beleeue the doctrine thou teacheſt? No ſuch matter. But if he take thy admonition in good part, and accordingly reforme himſelfe. So afterwards: If he refuſe to heare the witneſſes. This refuſall hath a kinde of contempt ioyned with it. If he contemne the Church, ſaith fCyprian. epiſt. 76. ad Magnum. §. 1.Cyprian. Deſpiſing the commaundement of his prelate: ſaith gLyra. ad Math. 18.Lyra.

Thirdly, by Church, no man in this place can reaſonably vnderſtand a generall Councell, either without, or with the Pope. For queſtionleſſe our Sauiour would neuer ſpeak ſo obſcurely to the Iewes, for whom it was impoſſible to vnderſtand his meaning, and whom that matter did not concerne. But he ſpeaketh either of the gouernours of ſeuerall Churches, or of the congregatiōs & gouernors, which are properly the Church Rhem. teſt. in the marginall notes Mat. 18.in thoſe places where they liue. In the former ſenſe do hChryſoſt. in Mat. hom. 62.Chryſoſtome and iTheophylact. ad Mat. 18.Theophylact take it, and your Rhemiſts by Chryſoſtomes authority: Tell the Prelates and gouernours. Tell them (ſaith kBellar de Pontif. Rom. lib. 1. cap. 6.Bellarmine) that are publicke perſons in the Church. And in an other place: lDe verbo Dei. lib. 3. cap. 5.Euerie mans Prelate, or a companie of Prelates is meant. The latter opinion your mIanſe. harm. cap. 72.Biſhop Ianſenius maintaines: He ſaith, tell the Church, not tell the Biſhops and gouernours of the Church, though they eſpecially are to be told, & the Church is not to be told, but in their preſence: as a company of beleeuers, is not to be called a Church, if the gouernours thereof be not preſent. He ſaith, tell the Church, that he may reuerence the agreement of the multitude. nGloſſa. interl. ibi.That the reproofe by many may correct him. To this purpoſe oHieron. ad Mat cap. 18.Ierome ſaith, It muſt be told to many. And therefore if any man thinke, that by telling the Church, it is meant we ſhould tell the Pope: beſides the abſurdity of the interpretation, the Pope being but one, and the Church (by your owne definition) a Company, both our Sauiour Chriſts courſe is peruerted, Tell him alone, thē with one or two witneſſes; & laſtly, tel one againe: & Ianſenins, & Ierom are profeſſedly againſt him.

Fourthly, it may be, that by the Church our Sauiour vnderſtandeth, according to the cuſtome of the Iewes in thoſe daies, not any aſſemblie of the Cleargie, about Church cauſes, but generally the Councell of the Elders, which had power to end diuers matters betwixt parties of their owne nation. After which example p1. Cor. 6. 4. 5.the Apoſtle willeth the Corinthians to appoint Iudges amongſt themſelues, that they might not diſhonor God, & the profeſſiō of chriſtianity, by going to law one with another vnderunder infidels. If this courſe take not effect, then, ſaith our Sauiour, deale with him as thou wouldeſt & mightſt deale with an heathen, or Publican, by following the Law againſt him in what Court thou thinkeſt beſt for thy aduantage. And this expoſition (as farre as I can yet ſee) ſeemeth agreeable to the text it ſelfe, & the purpoſe of our Sauiour, who ſeemeth to ſpeake onelyonly or eſpecially of priuat abuſes and quarrels: as might be ſhewed by diuers reaſons, and in part hath bene by rBilſon. perpet. gouern. cap. 4. pag. 29. &c.a learned writer, to whom I referre the Reader in this point.

Fiftly, it is more then manifeſt, that our Sauiour ſpeaketh not of hearing or not hearing the word, but of ſome quarell, or ſinfull action at the moſt: which alſo is to be determined or corrected in each ſeuerall congregatiō: as the teſtimonies of fVbi ſupra.Chryſoſtome, Theophylact, Ianſenius and Bellarmine declare. Tell the Church, not the vniuerſall Church ſpread ouer the face of the earth; but that particular Church, in which eueryevery man liueth, and to which he is ſubiect, ſaith tLuc. Brugenſ. ad Math. 18.Lucas of Bruges. There is uDe 12. abuſ. ſaecul. cap. 10.a treatiſe that goes vnderunder Cyprians name, wherein the author out of this place concludeth, that eueryevery man must ſeeke to his owne Biſhop. All theſe things conſidered, let eueryevery one iudge, whether this peece of ſcripture be fitly applied by you to proue that we muſt beleeue without doubting, whatſoeuer the Church deliuereth. But I wil propound the reaſon, that all men may vnderſtand, and conſider it.

If he that being proceeded withall firſt by admonition of one man alone, then by the like with one or two witneſſes, laſtly by the gouerners of the Church, concerning ſome quarrell or matter of fact, will not obey the voyce of the Church, muſt be to vsus as an heathen or a Publican: then whoſoeuer wil not beleeue whatſoeuer the Church teacheth, is greatly threatned in the Scripture.

But he that being ſo proceeded againſt, in ſuch a matter, will not obey, is ſo to be accounted of.

Therefore he that will not beleeue whatſoeuer the Church teacheth, is greatly threatned in the Scripture.

I hauehave framed this Syllogiſme, as eueryevery man may ſee, with the greateſt aduantage that can reaſonably be taken by this place to your purpoſe; whereas I needed not hauehave allowed the interpretation, on which the reaſon is grounded Al which notwithſtanding, who diſcerneth not the weakneſſe of the conſequence in the propoſition? What if ſuch a man be ſo to be accounted of? doth it follow therupon, that eueryevery one who beleeueth not the Church in all points, is threatned? Firſt, vnleſſe the ſame courſe of proceeding be held, why ſhould the partie be threatned, becauſe where ſuch a courſe is taken, there a man is to be ſo reckoned of? Secondly, how doth it follow, that if in iudgement concerning a matter of fact, the Church muſt be hearkned to for reformation, then in all matters whatſoeuer, it is abſolutely to be heard by all men? Such are your proofes in points of greateſt importance.

I refer the Reader to that which I anſwered before, concerning xMark. 16. 16. Chap 4. ſect. 2this place; to which I adde vponupon the preſent occaſion, that yMat. 28. 19.our Sauiour ſending forth his Miniſters to preach the Goſpell, chargeth them to ſquare their doctrine according to thoſe things which they had receiued in commiſſion from him: zLuc. Brugen. ad Marc. 16.therfore are they no farther to be obeyed, then their preaching is warrantable for the particulars out of our Sauiours inſtructions giuen them; which the Apoſtles directed by Gods ſpirit, truly and faithfully deliuered, firſt by word of mouth, and after by writing, to be the pillar (as aIren. lib. 3. cap. 1.Irenaeus ſaith) and foundation of our faith. And if this place conuey any ſuch authoritie to the Church, it giueth the ſame to eueryevery ſeuerall teacher, as it did to eueryevery one of the Apoſtles ſeuerally; and ſo eueryevery prieſt ſecular or regular, muſt be heard and beleeued whatſoeuer he teach.

A. D. §. 9.

Thus you ſee our Sauiour Christ hath promiſed to his Church the continuall preſence of himſelfe and of his holy Spirit, to teach that companie all truth. Whereof followeth, that it is infallibly taught all truth. Moreouer, he hath giuen charge and commiſſion to that Church to teach vsus, and hath warranted and commaunded vsus, in all points to heare and do according to the ſaying of this Church: which proueth, that it appertaineth to this church to inſtruct vsus in all points of faith, and that we ought to learne of it, in all matters of religion, what is the infallible truth: and conſequently, that the doctrine of this Church is the rule of faith.

A. W.

Neither we nor you can ſee any ſuch thing, if we looke no farther then the holy Ghoſt directeth vsus: who aſſureth vsus of no more but that the Apoſtles ſhould be ſo inſtructed and guided, that they ſhould not erre in their teaching, either by word of mouth or by writing, by reaſon of ignorance, or any other peruerſe affection; and that all the childrē of God ſhall be ſo taught and protected, that they ſhall neuer fall away from ſaluation by Chriſt. As for your Church or certaine companie, that is your Cleargie and Pope aſſembled in a generall Councell, neither thoſe places of Scripture you hauehave brought, nor any other you can bring, once make mention of any ſuch promiſe to them. Therefore hauehave we no warrant to heare and doe in all points according to the ſaying of any Church, (not onelyonly not of yours) but ſo far as that Church teacheth according to the doctrine of our Sauiour Chriſt in the Scripture, which is the rule of faith.

A. D. §. 10.

Worthily therefore doth S. Paul call this Church columnam & 1. Tim. 3. Lib. 1. cot. Creſcon. cap. 33.firmamentū veritatis, the pillar and ground of truth. Worthily alſo ſaith S. Austin: Scripturarum à nobis tenetur veritas, cum id facimus, quod vniuerſae placet Eccleſiae, quam earundem Scripturarum commendat authoritas: vt quoniam Scriptura ſancta fallere non poteſt, quiſquis falli metuit huius obſcuritate quaeſtionis, Eccleſiam de illa conſulat, quam ſine vlla ambiguitate, Scriptura ſancta demonſtrat. The truth of the Scriptures is holden of vsus, when we do that which pleaſeth the vniuerſall or whole Church, the which is commended by the authoritie of the Scriptures themſelues; that becauſe the holy Scripture cannot deceiue, whoſoeuer feareth to be deceiued with the obſcuritie of this queſtion, let him require the iudgement of the Church, which without any ambiguitie, the holy Scripture doth demonſtrate: by which words he ſheweth plainly, that the ſentence of the Church is of infallible and vndoubted truth, and that the way not to be deceiued in an obſcure queſtion, is to aske and follow the iudgement of the Church. Wherefore worthily alſo do we all ſay, Credo Eccleſiam Catholicam: I beleeue the Catholicke Church: and worthily alſo may I conclude, that neither Scripture alone, nor naturall wit and learning, nor priuate ſpirit, nor any other thing, but onelyonly the teaching of the true Church of Chriſt, is that ordinarie meanes which Almightie God hath prouided, whereby all men may learne that one, infallible, entire faith, which I proued to be neceſſarie to ſaluation.

A. W.

b1. Tim. 3. 15.Saint Paul doth worthily call the Church, the pillar and ground of truth: but not (as you would hauehave vsus beleeue) becauſe it is the rule of faith. cOecumen. ad 1. Tim. 3. 15. è Chryſoſt.The Greeke Scholiaſt taketh that ſpeech of the Apoſtle to be vttered by way of compariſon, betwixt the Church of Chriſt and the Iewiſh Temple. Not as the Iewiſh Temple (ſaith Oecumenius) but the pillar and ground of truth: for the Temple was the ground of the ſhadowes of the truth. Out of which we may gather, that as the Iewiſh ſynagogue was the pillar and ground of thoſe ſhadowes of the truth: ſo is the Church of Chriſt the pillar and ground of the truth it ſelfe. But that ſynagogue was not the rule of faith in that point, becauſe whatſoeuer it taught, was to be held for infallible truth; but for that Rom. 3. 2.to it were committed the oracles of God, and the knowledge and vſe of thoſe ceremonies: ſo hath the Church of Chriſt the truth of doctrine in the ſcripture, and the exerciſes of Gods worſhip and religion. Therfore is it called the pillar and ground of it, becauſe it conſtantly maintaineth that truth, preaching and profeſſing it, in deſpight of all the practiſes and power of Satan, and tyrants of the world. As the thighs (ſaith ePhilo epiſc. Carpath, in Cantic cap. 4. circa ann. 410.an ancient writer) ſuſtaine and beare vp the weight of the whole bodie: ſo alſo the Apoſtles like pilars, valiantly carry the vniuerſall Church of Christians ouer the whole world; being for the value of their inuincible courage and ſtedfaſtneſſe of their holy purpoſe, called marble pillars. And a litle after: They preached the Gospell with ſuch wiſedome and conſtancie, that as if they had bene of marble or adamant, they were afraid of no violence nor aduerſitie, but always continuing firme and inuincible againſt all the forces of men and diuels, ſhining as it were in the darke, by that light of their wiſedome, by preaching, admoniſhing, teaching and gliſtering with miracles, at the last they moſt happily became conquerors. To this effect ſpeake fLyra ad 1. Tim. cap. 3.your Gloſſes: The ground of the truth of the Goſpell, which the Church conſtantly maintained euen in the greateſt perſecutions. Well vpholding the truth in it ſelf (ſaith gGloſs. ordin. ibi.another Gloſſe.) hNe corruat.That it may not fall to the ground, though it be afflicted, ſaith iLombar. ibi.Lombard. But let vsus bring your reaſon into due frame.

The pillar and ground of truth is the rule of faith.

The Church is the pillar and ground of truth.

Therefore the Church is the rule of faith.

Your propoſition or maior is falſe, vnleſſe you reſtraine it, as To the propoſition.I hauehave often ſaid, to the truth; and then it is ſo far the rule of faith, as it is the pillar and ground of truth. Whatſoeuer it holdeth truly, according to the ſcripture, is the rule of faith for thoſe points: not becauſe of the Churches authoritie, but for the truth of the doctrine. Yet may it eaſily come to paſſe, that a Church maintaining the generall truth of the Goſpell, and all particulars neceſſary to ſoluation, may faile in many other points of great importance, and for all that, continue both a true Church, and the pillar and ground of truth, though not the rule of faith.

Your minor alſo (as you vnderſtand it) is vntrue. Firſt becauſe To the Aſſumption.the Apoſtle ſpeaketh not of any ſuch companie as you imagine, Pope, Biſhop, Councell; but either of the Church of Epheſus, in which Timothie, to whom he writeth, then abode; or indefinitely of any and eueryevery Church whatſoeuer, where the true Religion of our Sauiour is or ſhall be profeſſed, according to the Goſpell. If Timothie were (as you will not denie) Biſhop of Epheſus, then it is apparent, that the Apoſtle calleth the Church of Epheſus, wherein Timothy liued, taught and gouerned, the pillar and ground of truth: yet was it not the rule of faith; for then had the rule of faith periſhed long ſince with that Church of Epheſus. If he ſpeake to him as to an Euangeliſt, who was to follow him from place to place, and to eſtabliſh the Churches which the Apoſtle had planted, then muſt eueryevery one of thoſe Churches, wherein Timothy was to behaue himſelfe, as he had done in Epheſus, be vnderſtood to be the pillar and ground of truth: and yet neither any, nor all of them were the rule of faith, which elſe muſt hauehave bene loſt with them. What remaines then? Shall we expound it of all beleeuers in generall? I grant it reacheth to all the faithfull: but as to them conſidered in their ſeuerall Churches, becauſe among them ſo diſpoſed of, was Timothy to performe that dutie which the Apoſtle there enioyneth him. But let vsus ſo conceiue of the Church. What ſhall it auaile you, or endamage vsus? All beleeuers are not the companie you pleade for, but onelyonly the Pope and your Biſhops, whom you would hauehave taken for the rule of faith.

Secondly, I denie your minor, in reſpect of the ſenſe you giuegive of thoſe words, the pillar and ground of truth. For you ſo vnderſtand them, as if the truth of God depended vponupon the verdict of the Church, ſo that nothing may be held for truth, but what the Church deliuereth for ſuch; and whatſoeuer ſhe ſo propoundeth, muſt ſo be receiued vponupon paine of certaine damnation. How contrary are you in this interpretation and doctrine to the auncient fathers? The Apoſtles (ſaith kIren. lib. 3. cap. 1.Irenaeus) left vsus the Scriptures to be the pillar and ground of our faith. Nay (ſay you) they left vsus the Church to be the pillar and ground of the Scriptures. The Goſpell and ſpirit of life (ſaith lCap. 11.the ſame father in the ſame booke) is the pillar and ground of the Church. Nay, by your leaue (reply you) the Church is the pillar and ground of the Goſpell. But mChryſoſt. ad 1. Tim. hom. 11.Chryſoſtome handling this place of the Apoſtle, is not afraid to affirme, that the truth is the pillar and ground of the Church: not as if he would denie that which the Apoſtle ſaith: for the Church indeed is the vpholder of the truth; but to ſhew, that although the Church maintaine and auow the truth, yet it is built and founded vponupon the truth, which (as nHicron. ibi.Ierome ſaith) vpholds the building. Therfore to make ſhort, whē the Apoſtle ſaith, that the Church is the pillar and ground of truth: his meaning is, that amongſt Chriſtians, and among no other ſort of men, the truth is to be found; and amongſt, and by them it is conſtantly and worthily maintained. The Philoſophers indeed (as oThom. ad 1. Tim. cap. 3. lect. 3.Thomas ſaith) had a kind of notion of ſome points thereof, but they had no certaintie: as well becauſe they were corrupted with errors, as for that very few of them are found to hauehave agreed in the ſame truth. But in the Church is certaine knowledge and truth. Which (as pCaiet. ad 1. Tim. 3.Caietan ſaith) is vpheld aloft in it, becauſe it is auowed, reuerenced and honored aboue all things: and it is ſo founded in the Church, that out of it, it is not to be found. This is the reaſon (as they truly ſay) why the Church is called a pillar. qThomas vbi ſupra.Thomas addeth that it is termed the ground in reſpect of others, becauſe men cannot be confirmed in the truth, but by the ſacraments of the Church.

rAuguſt. cont. Creſcon. Lib. 1. cap. 33.This teſtimonie of Auſtine is alledged by you otherwiſe, then it was written by him. For whereas he ſpake of that which had then alreadie bene reſolued of by the whole Church: you make him ſpeake indefinitely of any thing that pleaſeth the Church, turning iam placuit into placet. But we muſt vnderſtand, that he writing in that place concerning the rebaptizing of heretickes, which queſtion had bene agreed vponupon (as he ſaith ſCap. 32.in the former chapter) before the hatching of Donatus hereſie, ſaith, that the iudgement of the Church in that caſe is to be held as agreeable to the Scripture. This might the Reader hauehave ſeene in his words, if you had not changed the tenſe in placet, and left out etiam in hac re, in the beginning of the ſentence: The truth of the Scriptures (ſaith Auſtin) is held by vsus euen in this thing. If you reply farther, that the reaſon which Auſtin vſeth, is generall for all queſtions whatſoeuer, namely the authoritie of the Church, commended by the Scriptures, which cannot erre: I anſwer you, firſt that we hauehave ſeene Auſtins iudgement directly to the contrary, viz. that whatſoeuer is of neceſſitie to ſaluation, is plainly deliuered in the Scriptures, and that the authoritie of men without Scripture, is inſufficient to propound any doctrine as a matter of faith: and therefore if he ſhould write otherwiſe in this place, we might with good reaſon make queſtion of his authoritie. Secondly, I anſwer, that Auſtine ſpeaketh here of thoſe points onelyonly which are not determinable by Scripture, ſuch as he taketh the queſtion of rebaptizing heretickes to be, as it appeareth in the words immediatly before thoſe you alledge, being alſo a peece of the ſentence by you omitted. Although (ſaith Auſtin) there be no example to be brought out of the Scriptures concerning this matter, yet the truth of the ſame Scriptures is (euen in this matter) alſo held by vsus, when we do that which hath now alreadie pleaſed the whole Church, &c. Now in ſuch caſes as cannot by Scripture be decided, who would or may be ſo preſumptuous, as to withſtand or miſlike the practiſe of the church in all places? Surely t1. Cor. 11. 16.the authoritie of the church is ſo far commended in the Scriptures, that it ought in all things of ſuch nature to ouerweigh our iudgement, and incline our affection to the liking of that which is agreed on by ſo generall a conſent of ſo many churches in all nations. Therefore that which you gather out of Auſtins words, of following the iudgement of the church in an obſcure queſtion, is to be reſtrained to ſuch queſtions as cannot be determined by the Scriptures (and thoſe are few or none of any importance, of neceſſitie to ſaluation none at all) or elſe your conſequence will be nothing worth. Auſtin ſaith, that in queſtions not determinable by Scripture, we muſt follow the iudgement of the church. Therefore we muſt follow it in all obſcure queſtions whatſoeuer. Auſtins foundation will not beare your building. Is it a good reaſon to ſay, In caſes not prouided for by law, custome muſt beare ſway: therfore it muſt be followed in all caſes? So, and ſo weakly do you diſpute.

It is not enough for you to teach vsus new diuinitie, but you will driue vsus to learne new Latin too: Caeſar could make men free of Rome, but not words. Credere Eccleſiam Catholicam, to beleeue the Catholicke Church, in ordinary Latin, is to beleeue that there is a Catholicke Church. Credo (eſſe) I beleeue there is: but you would make the ignorant beleeue, that credo Eccleſiam and credo Eccleſiae is all one. For how elſe can this ſentence reaſonably depend vponupon the former: We muſt follow the iudgement of the Church: Therfore worthily alſo do we all ſay, Credo Eccleſiam Catholicam? What can you meane by this, but I beleeue, that is, I giuegive credit to the Catholick Church: that is, I beleeue that to be true which the Catholicke Church teacheth? But the article of the Creed hath no ſuch ſenſe, as it may appeare by the other that follow, all being alike in reſpect of our beleefe. I beleeue the communion of Saints, the forgiueneſſe of ſinnes, the reſurrection of the bodie, and life euerlaſting: To which of theſe foure dowe giuegive any ſuch credit? But we beleeue that there is a Church of Chriſt, to which all theſe priuiledges belong. He that tranſlated Epiphanius into Latin, more curiouſly then truly made a difference betwixt beleeuing the church and the other articles. We beleeue (ſaith uIanus Corua. in tranſl. Anchorat. Epiph. in extremo.he) one holy Catholicke and Apoſtolicke Church, we confeſſe one baptiſme for the forgiueneſſe of ſinnes, and looke for the reſurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. But the Greeke which Epiph. reciteth out of the Nicene creed, is alike in all the articles, xforeignin the Church, in the baptiſme of repentance, in the reſurrection of the dead. And yPaſchaſ. diac. Rom. Eccleſ. contra Maced. lib. 1. cap. 1.Paſchaſius doubteth not to ſay, that the ignorance of ſome drew the prepoſition zIn praefat. ibi.in from the former ſentence concerning beleefe in the holy Ghoſt, into the article of the church: yet (as he ſheweth) credere Deum, & in Deum greatly differ. That there is a God, the Apoſtle ſaith, the diuel beleeueth: but no mā is held to beleeue in God, but he that aPiè in cum ſperauerit.religiouſly puts his truſt in him. bCyril. Hierof. catceh. 18.Cyril alſo reciteth the articles after the ſame manner, without any difference in the particulars, yet with In, to euerie one of them, and in that ſenſe, in which we take them. cRuffin. in ſym. Apoſt. ſect. 35.Ruffin (as Paſchaſius before) denieth that the Creed ſaith: In the holy Church, in the forgiueneſſe of ſinnes, in the reſurrection of the fleſh. Becauſe that were to equall our beleefe of theſe points, with our beleeuing in the Father, the Son, and the holy Ghoſt. But of theſe articles we are to beleeue, that they are true, that there is a Church, gathered vntounto God, that there is a remiſſion of ſinnes, that there is a reſurrection of the fleſh. So doth dAuguſt. Serm. de tempore. 115Auſtin (if thoſe Sermons be his) read and vnderſtand it. I beleeue the Catholicke Church &c. We muſt beleeue, that God will vouchſafe the reſurrection of bodies, and the forgiueneſſe of ſinnes. And whereas eSerm. 119.in an other Sermon, he ſaith in the Church, ſo doth he alſo, in the forgiueneſſe of ſinnes, and the meaning is all one. And fSerm. 131.in a third Sermon he giueth vsus this caueat: we muſt know (ſaith he) that we muſt beleeue the Church, not beleeue in the Church, that is, muſt beleeue there is a Church. So then, gforeign. Credere Eccleſiam. Heb. 11. 6.To beleeue the Catholicke Church, is not to beleeue all that the Church ſaith (which neither the Greeke nor the Latin will beare) but to beleeue there is a Church; foreign, Credo eſſe Eccleſiam: which in the phraſe of the new Teſtament, for the Greeke, might be foreign. Which is word for word, I beleeue that there is a Church. Now if any man ſhall demaūd of me, what the meaning of this article is, or what we beleeue, by beleeuing there is a Church, and what that Church is, to which ſo many gracious promiſes are made, and of which ſo many glorious things are ſpokē in the ſcripture; I will indeuor to ſatisfie him, as briefly as I can with plainneſſe. Firſt then (leauing the holineſſe and catholickneſſe of this church to be diſcuſſed hChap. 15.in due place) I ſay, that by beleeuing the Church, we beleeue that there is a company of men called to true faith in Ieſus Chriſt, and to the participation of thoſe priuiledges, which belong to all the true members of his myſticall bodie, ſome of the principall whereof are recited in the articles following. But we may not imagine, as the Papiſts doe, without any likelihood of true reaſon, that this company is their Pope and Biſhops aſſembled in a generall councel, or that they of this companie make one viſible congregation, but that they are all one Church in regard of the common meanes of ſaluation, which they embrace, and their dependance vponupon on myſticall head Ieſus Chriſt, of whoſe bodie they are all members. So that by Church in the Creed, we vnderſtand ſuch of the elect, as are by faith liuely members of our Sauiours bodie, or at the leaſt, are by the baptiſme of the ſpirit and water in corporated into that bodie, howſoeuer as yet they hauehave not faith. I denie not that all the elect, euen thoſe, which are yet vnborne, belong to the Church of Chriſt, but I thinke the Creed doth not ſtretch ſo farre, but onelyonly to them, that are actually members of Chriſt, not to all, that are ſo in Gods euerlaſting predeſtination. In this ſenſe, namely for the liuing members of Chriſts bodie, the word Church is often vſed in the Scripture. iMat. 16. 18.Ʋpon this rocke will I build my Church. kAct. 20. 28.The Church, which he hath purchaſed with his blood. lEph. 1. 21. 22.God hath giuen Chriſt ouer all things to be the head of the Church, which is his bodie, the fulneſſe of him, that filleth all in all things. m& 5. 23.Chriſt is the head of the Church, and the ſame is the Sauiour of his bodie. So is it taken in the ſame chapter diuers times. nverſ. 25. 27. 29. 32.He is the head of the bodie of the Church. Thus doe the ancient writers ſpeake of the Church. oAuguſt. de bapt. cont. Donat. lib. 5. cap. 27.Auſtin denieth, that he dares take any for the Church of Christ, but thoſe that are iuſt, and holy, no though they hauehave bene baptiſed: For (as he ſaith pCont. Creſc. lib. 2. cap. 21.in another place) they that are condemned by Chriſt, are not now in his bodie, which is the Church: becauſe Chriſt cannot hauehave members condemned. As for the reprobate (ſaith qDe bapt. cont. Donat. lib. 1. cap, 17.the ſame Author) whether they ſeeme to be within the Church, or be apparantly out of it, they are alwaies diuided from the vnitie of the Church, which is without ſpot or wrincle. The Church (ſaith rClem. Alexan. Strom. lib. 7.Clement of Alexandria) is the company of the elect. Therefore ſaith ſCyprian. epiſt. 49. Sect. 2. ad Cornel.Cyprian, that the vnitie of Chriſt and the Church is coupled together with indiuiſible links. For (as he ſaith t& epiſt. 55. Sect. 8 ad eund. Cornel.otherwhere) the Church that beleeueth in Chriſt, and holds that which once it hath receiued, neuer departeth wholy frō him: they are the Church, that cōtinue in the houſe of God: but they are not a planting planted by God, who are not ſetled with the faſtneſſe and ſoundneſſe of wheat, but are ſcattered like chaffe by the breath of the enemie Sathan. The Church ſtandeth on the right hand (ſaith uHieron. epiſt. 140.Ierome) and hath nothing in it, belonging to them, on the left hand. And xHieron. ad Epheſ. 5.againe: He that is a ſinner, and defiled with any filthineſſe, cannot be called one of Chriſts Church, nor be ſaid to be ſubiect to Chriſt. There are many ſuch ſayings in the writings of the Fathers, grounded vponupon the booke of Canticles; which all men know intreateth of the true church. There is no doubt (ſaith yBernard. in cant. ſer. 78.Bernard vponupon the Canticles) but the elect are the Church of God. But the reprobat (as one of your zIoan. de Turrecremata lib. 4 ſum. part. 2. cap. 20Cardinals ſaith) are not truly mēbers of the Church. Of many beleeuers purged from their ſinnes, there is made one Church, ſaith aAlbert. in Math. cap. 26.Albertus magnus, Thomas his maſter. bThomas in Apoc. cap. 3.Thomas himſelfe expounding that place of the Reuelation, In the Temple of my God, ſaith, that by the temple of God, the Church of the faithfull is vnderſtood, which is the ſpeciall temple of God: and to that purpoſe he alledgeth that of the Apoſtle: c1. Cor. 3. 17.The temple of God is holy, which you are. And in dThomas ad Rom. cap. 12,an other place he ſaith, that the myſticall bodie of Chriſt is the Church. Now the vnion of this myſtical bodie is ſpiritual, by which, through faith and charitie, they are vnited to God, and one to another. As the godly, or they that are holy, are the members of Chriſt, ſo the wicked (ſaith eAmbroſ. in Pſalm. 35. Guliel. Altiſſ. in ſum. lib. 3. tract. 2. cap. 1. q. 5.Ambroſe) are the members of the Diuell. The congregation of them that beleeue aright, is the Church, ſaith Altiſſiodorenſis. Who can reaſonably doubt whether this be the Church ſpoken of in the Creed, or no?

As for the promiſes, and commendations giuen to the Church in the Scripture, to what other Church ſhould they appertaine? The Doue, and the perfect one praiſed in the Canticles, is (as fEpiphan. hareſ. 35.Epiphanius truly ſaith) the holy ſpouſe and Catholicke Church. Whereas, the Church in the Canticles (ſaith gAuguſt, de bapt. contra Donat. lib. 5. cap. 27.Auſtin) is deſcribed to be a garden incloſed, a fountain ſealed vp, a wel of liuing water &c. I dare not vnderſtand this, but of the holy and righteous, not of couetous men, not of deceiuers, extortioners, vſurers, drunkards, enuious perſons, although they hauehave receiued the ſame baptiſme, but hauehave not the ſame charitie, or ſanctifying grace. The promiſes & praiſes belong either ſeuerally to eueryevery one of the elect called; as that hMat. 16. 18. & Theophyl. ad cum locum.the gates of hell ſhall not preuaile againſt the Church: that iEphe. 5. 23. 25the Church is loued and cheriſhed by Chriſt her huſband & head: or to the congregations of beleeuers, in regard of the elect amongſt them. Once this I dare boldly affirme (let any Papiſt diſproue it if he can) that the Church is no where in all the Scripture taken for one companie through the world, in reſpect of any outward gouernment or dependance: which is the foundation of all your doctrine, touching the Church: but in regard of the common meanes of ſaluation by faith in Chriſt. And here I might well make an end of anſwering to this treatiſe, becauſe I hauehave ouerthrowne the maine ſtrength of your diſcourſe, and diſcouered to all men that will not be wilfully blind, the weakneſſe of your reaſon: but for the better ſatisfaction of the vnlearned, I will follow you from Chapter to Chapter, that the truth may the more eaſily be diſcerned.

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