Run from Rome, Chapter 4
CHAP. IIII.
wherein the neceſsitie of ſeparating is proued.
YOu ſee from whom I take the point that I hauehave vndertaken to maintaine: from the ſame men will I ferch the grounds of my diſputation. What is the reaſon by which theſe worthy, learned, and godly diuines did iuſtifie the ſeparation of our Church, and her continuing ſeparated from the Romiſh faith? let vsus heare themſelues ſpeake: We hauehave departed from that Church (ſaith thereuerend Father B. Iewel) whoſe erro…rs were proued and made B. Iewel Iuf. apol pag. 4. cap. 11. …. 1.manifeſt to the world, which Church alſo had alreadie departed from Gods word: and yet we hauehave not departed ſo much from it ſelfe, as from the errours thereof. What errours? They are generally implōyed in theſe words of his: chap. 10. diuiſ. 2. Ignorance, errour, ſuperſtition, idolat… … inuentions, and the ſame commonly diſagreeing … the holy Scriptures. And againe: Theſe men hauehave broke … in peeces Apolog. p… 5. cap 13. diviſ. 1.all the pipes and conduites: they hauehave ſtopped all the ſprings, and choaked vp the fonntaine of liuing water with dirt and mire. And againe: Wee hauehave renounced that Church wherein vve Cap. 15. diviſ. 2. Apol.could neither hauehave the word of God ſincerely taught, nor the Sacraments rightly adminiſtred, nor the nam: of God duely called vponupon: and wherein was nothing able to ſtay any wiſe man, or one that hath conſideration of his owne ſaſetie. To conclude, vve part 6. chap. 22. diviſ. 2.hauehave departed from him (ſaith that learned B. of the Pope) who hath vtterly forſaken the Catholicke faith. For (as Dr. Bilſon Dialogue …t 3.Bilſon ſaith moſt truely) No Article of the Church of Rome, wherein we diſſent from them is Catholicke.
D. Reynolds ſpeakes not ſo plaine, yet giues us ſufficiently to underſtand, that he therefore concluded the Church of Rom̄e was to be forſaken, becauſe ſhe was no ſound member of the Catholicke Church, nor held the right faith. Her unſoundnes he thus ſets out. The Church Reynolds conclu. 5.of Rome is not diſtempered with a little ague, ſuch as hindreth not the functions of life greatly; but is ſicke of a canker, or rather of a le…proſy, or rather of a peſtilence, in ſo much that ſhe is paſt hope of recouery, unleſſe our Saviour Chriſt the heavenly phyſician doe giuegive her wholeſome medicines to purge her of permcious humors. Concluſ: 5.
And in his preſace to his ſixe concluſions? he writes thus. Sith … the fellowſhip of the Church of Rome it was not In Preface, at the 6. …n. …aſ…on.lawfull for vsus, either to ſerue God with a holy worſhip, or to beleeue God with a holy faith, as God hath commanded: ſ…h the Church of Rome being taken with contagious diſeaſes and a frenſie, did put her Counſellers to the fire, friends to the ſword, brethren to cruell death, and ſtained the faith of Chriſt with reproaches, creatures with the Lords honour, Gods ſervice with Idolatry: we went away from Papiſts, not willingly as from m…n; not vnwillingly as from heritickes. But D. Whitaker, and M. … deecc…e…. co…o 2. quiſt. 6. cap. 1.Perkins are moſt plaine. W… affirm… (ſaith D. Whitaker) that the Church of Rome is to be ſhuned of all men, and that no ſalvation is to be hoped for in it; yea we ſay it is to be cond…m…ed as a deepe pitt of hereſy and errour.
M. Perkins avoucheth our departure for the ſame reaſon. Perkins in prolog. Reſor. Catho.The cauſe of this Separation lyeth in the Church of Rome, namely the cup of abomination in the whores hand, which is their haereticall and ſchiſmaticall religion.
VponUpon this foundation of theſe learned men, I ſet this frame of diſputation.
EueryEvery erroneous faith is to be refuſed.
The faith of the Church of Rome is an erroneous faith.
Therefore the faith of the Church of Rome is to be refuſed.
Can there be any queſtion made of the firſt part or propoſition of this reaſon, when the holy Apoſtle Saint Iude exhorts all men without exception of perſon, time or matter, to ſtriue for the faith delivered to the Saints? Iudev. 3.But how ſtriue we for that faith which is the reuealed truth of God, if we can be content to beleeue errours which are againſt the truth? Yea, what doe we elſe by holding errours for truth, but adde to the diuine reuelation giuen by the Lord God himſelfe, contrary to his charge? Deut. 4. 2. You ſhall put nothing to the word that I command you.
The ſecond part which we call the aſſumption or minor, Deutr. 4. 2.is that wherein all the doubt lieth: for what is the Church of Rome the worſe, for granting that an erroneous faith is to be refuſed, vnles their faith can be proued erroneous. And whereas I ſay in my queſtion and diſputation erroneous, rather then hereticall, I doe it od of purpoſe, becauſe I would ſhunne all needleſſe wrangling about the word: for it ſeemes to many ſomewhat doubtfull what is properly to be called hereſy; For my part I can not ſee that any falſe propoſition deliuered for an Article of faith, can be leſſe then hereſie: I doubt not but a man may thinke ſomthing to be true which is falſe, & be no heriticke: bu… he th… ſhall obſtinately hold ſuch a point for an Article of faith, neceſſarily to be beleeued by all men vponupon paine of damnation, cannot for ought I ſee, be freed from hereſie. As for the errours of the Papiſts, Dr. Reynolds, Dr. Whitakers, and Mr. Perkins, (as we hauehave ſeene,) make no doubt to call them hereſies.
Now that we may the better vnderſtand whether the faith of the Church of Rome be erroneous or no, we muſt enquire how the truth and falſeneſſe of faith is to be diſcerned: which we cannot doe either better or otherwiſe, then by conſidering how the Article of faith, or propoſition enioyned to be beleeued, agreeth with the diuine teſtimonie concerning that point or Article; for the diuine teſtimonie is the thing or rule, to which the Article muſt be applied, and by which it muſt be ſquared; ſo that if it agree wholy with it, it is true: if in any part it differ from that teſtimonie, it is falſe and erroneous. This Seſſ. 14. ca… Decret de neceſſitate ſatiffaction is Dec…ct. de ſacram paenitentiae can. 6.deſcription of errour and falſehood in matters of faith, is warranted by the Councell of Trent, where they make falſehood conſiſt in differing from the word of God: and That which differs from the inſtitution of Chriſt, is called an humane tradition, and therefore is erroneous.
According to this declaration of a falſe and erroneous faith, I proceed now to ſhew, that the faith of the Church of Rome is falſe and erroneous.
That faith which hath a falſe and ertoneous foundation, is falſe and erroneous.
Wherein firſt I take it for granted, that Faith muſt hauehave an extrinſecall foundation out of the shings themfelues which are to be beleeved. This outward and extrinſecall foundation is the credit and authority of him, that delivereth thoſe things for true, and requires aſſent or agrement to them.
Secondly, I hold it for certaine, and agrred vponupon by all, that faith is true or falſe, according to the foundation whereon it ſtands: as the diuine reſtimonie begets a diuine faith, an humane teſtimonie breeds an humane, which may thus appeare. What makes the faith of the ancient heathen, and the now heatheniſh Turks, and all ſorts of Infidels, who beleeue that there is but one God, to be humane falſe and erroneous; and the faith of Chriſtians concerning the ſame point, to be diuine and true: but the diuerſe foundations of theſe faiths, the former depending vponupon the coniectures and teſtimonies of men: the other ariſing out of the witneſſe of God himſelfe. To come nearer home; why doe the Papiſts denie that wee are of their faith, although they confeſſe wee hold the very ſame Articles of the Creed that they profeſſe, and aagree with them in moſt points of religion: but for that we hauehave not the ſame foundation of our faith, which they hauehave of theirs? It is then the goodneſſe or badneſſe of the foundation that make the faith good or bad: ſo that where the foundation is falſe, the faith whatſoeuer it be cannot be true.
The propoſition thus prooued, I will adde the aſſumptition to it: The foundation of the faith of the Church of Rome is falſe and erroneous: For the foundation of their faith, is the authority of the Paſtors of their Church, as it Sect. 4. Decret. de edit. ſcriptur. ſect. praeterea.is manifeſt by the Councell of Trent: It is the office of the Church (ſaith the Councel) to giuegive ſentence of the true meaning and ſenſe of the Scriptures. Now by the Church, they meane the Paſtours of the Church, as their continuall practiſe declareth, no man being ſuffered to giuegive a voice in any Councell, but their Biſhops, whom onelyonly they hold to be the Paſtours of the Church. By true ſenſe and meaning they vnderſtand the doctrine of faith, which is nothing elſe but the Word of God, truly vnderſtood. By the Scriptures, they meane eueryevery particular place of Scripture; for, if they ſhould meane ſome places onelyonly, there could be no certainty in this their decree, vnleſſe they had determined, what particular places they are, whereof the Church may giuegive ſentence.
Theſe things thus declared, I diſpute thus:
They that hauehave the office to determine which is the true faith, their authority is the foundation of Faith.
But the Church hath the office to determine which is the true faith: as it appeares by the words of the Councell ere-while recited.
Therfore the authority of the Church is the foundation of their faith.
That the Church of Rome claimes this authority, it may further appeare by thoſe titles whcih it vſurpeth in the ſaid Councell, that, The Biſhop of Rome is Gods Ʋicar on Seſſ. 6. de reformat. cap. 1. & Seſſ. 14. de poenitentia. cap. 7. Seſſ. 7. de Baptiſm. Can. 3. & Seſſ. 22. de ſacrificio miſſae cap. 8 De verbo dei lib. 3. cap. 3. S…ct. Tota igitur. Cap. 5. Sect. Ex his.earth. The Church of Rome is the mother and miſtris of all Churches. Yea, euerie man may plainly ſee, that Bellarmine teacheth the ſame things of the church of Rome. The Church is the iudge of the true ſenſe of the Scripture, and all controuerſies. By Church, hee vnderſtands the Pope with a Councell: and this, he ſaith, is expreſly to be found in the Councell of Trent, Seſſ. 4. which is the place I alledged ere-while. It is committed ſingularly to Peter and his ſucceſſors, that they ſhould teach all men what is to bee held concerning the doctrine of faith. For the expounding whereof, he ſaith a little after, Sect. Si etiam; that, The Lord ſpeakes of a ſingular office of teaching the whol Church, by appointing and decreeing what is to be beleeued of all men. And againe, he ſaith; that The Councels, & Popes execute the office of a Iudge committed Cap. 10. Sect. Reſpond. aliud eſt.to them by God. What the Office of a Iudge is, he ſhews in the ſame place a few lines before: To explication after the manner of a Iudge, there is authoritie required: A Iudge deliuereth his ſentence, as a thing that neceſſarily muſt be followed. To conclude, hee tells vsus in the ſame tenth chapter; that, Sect. Septi…um argumentum.Chriſtians, who are ſure the Church cannot erre in expounding the doctrine of faith, are bound to receiue that doctrine, and not to doubt whether thoſe things be ſo or no.
This matter Bellarmine makes plaine to all men, by ſhewing the manner of this Office, in this ſort; The Scripture for Cap. 10. Sect. Reſponde…, Chriſtus.It ſelfe needs not the witnes of men, for it is moſt true in it ſelfe, whether it be vnderſtood, or not: but for our ſake it needs the witnes of the Church, becauſe otherwiſe wee are not certaine, what bookes are ſacred and diuine, nor what is the true and proper meaning. In the ſame Chapter he giues vsus to vnderſtand, what manner of foundation the teſtimony of the church is. The word of God deliuered by the Prophets and Apoſtles, is the firſt Sect. Reſpondeo, Ad hoc.foundation of our faith, for, therefore we beleeue whatſoeuer we beleeue, becauſe God hath reuealed it by his Prophets and Apoſtles. But we adde, that beſides this firſt foundation, there is another ſecondary foundation needfull, to wit, the teſtimony of the Church: for, we know not certainly what God hath reuealed but by the teſtimony of the Church. Therefore our faith cleaueth to Chriſt, the firſt truth, reuealing thoſe myſteries, as to the firſt foundation: It cleaues alſo to Peter, that is, to the Pope, propounding and expounding theſe myſteries, as to a ſecondary foundation. And to make the matter yet more plaine, he ſpeakes thus in the ſame tenth chap. Sect. Reſpondeo, verbum. We are to know, Sect. Reſponde…, verbum.that a Propoſition or article of faith is concluded in ſuch a Syllogiſme as this.
Whatſoeuer God hath reuealed in the Scriptures is true.
But this God hath reuealed in the Scriptures.
Therefore this is true.
Of the firſt of theſe Propoſitions no man makes any queſtion. The ſecond is held for certaine truth amongst all Catholikes, for, it is grounded vponupon the teſtimony of the Church, that is, the Councell, or the Pope. By which it appeares, how little Mr. Fiſher vnderſtands the doctrine whereof he makes profeſſion, or how vnaduiſedly he deliuereth his opinion. For, whereas Bellarmine will hauehave a two-fold foundation, primary, and ſecondary, Mr. Fiſher will acknowledge but one, namely; the authority of God, ſpeaking by the mouth of the church: Chriſtian beleefe (ſaith hee) ought onelyonly to bee Treat. of Faith in the Preface. Sect of which point.grounded vponupon the authority of God, ſpeaking by the mouth of the Church.
We hauehave ſeene Bellarmines opinion of this matter: which indeed agrees very well with the words of the Councell, where it challengeth the office of interpreting the Scriptures. For, in that clayme it preſumes, that the diuine truth is already reuealed, and that it is the firſt foundation of our faith; to which the office of the Church is added, which is but a ſecondary foundation. Now, by theſe places of the Counce…l, and Bellarmine, it is cleare, that;
The foundation of the Romiſh faith, is the authority of the Church.
This foundation of faith (ſay wee) is falſe and erroneous: That our Sauiour Chriſt and his Prophets and Apoſtles are the foundation of faith, wee beleeue and acknowledge, and in this we and they agree. That ſecondary foundation which lyeth in the authority and teſtimony of the church, we refuſe as falſe and naught, and in this lyeth the true difference betwixt vsus and them in this point: as beſides other, De Script. quaeſt. 5. cap. 3. Apol. part. 2. chap. 3. diuiſ. 2. 11Dr. Whitaker hath noted, and the reuerend B. Iewell. And this indeed is the main reaſon why we may not ioyn with them.
If they demand of vsus, VVhy we receiue not this authority of the church, for a foundation of faith? VVe anſwer; Becauſe we find no commiſſion in the word of God, wherby any ſuch office is conueyed vntounto it. Neither deale wee herein any otherwiſe then reaſon and law direct men to do in the like caſe. For, is any man ſo deſtitute of reaſon, or ſo ignorant of the law, that he would receiue a man for L. Chancellour, L. Treaſurer, or Lord Chiefe Iuſtice, that were not able to ſhew any commiſſion for the hauing and executing ſuch an office? And ſhall wee in a buſineſſe of ſuch importance, that concernes our free-hold, not onelyonly for our preſent being of the church, but for our future becomming heires of glory in heauen, giuegive credit to men vponupon their bare word, without ſight of their commiſſion? VVerfore doth our Lord and Sauiour ſo often in the Scriptures, plead his authority from God, warranted by the old Teſtament: and vpbraid the Iewes with lightneſſe and folly, for being ready to receiue one that ſhould come in his owne name? If then the Papiſts would hauehave vsus beleeue, that their church is appointed to bee a foundation, let them ſhew their warrant for it, and we will accept it, and build our faith vponupon it.
But we looke that their commiſſion ſhould be very plain and certaine, becauſe it is of ſuch a matter as no naturall reaſon can conceiue to be true. For who would imagine or beleeue that the Apoſtles, who had a little before receiued full power of order and iuriſdiction ioyntly and equally with Peter, (as Bellarmine himſelfe confeſſeth) ſhould ſuddenly De Rom. Po…t. lib. 1. cap. 12. Sect. vt autem.hauehave their authority abridged, and be made ſubiect to Peter: yea, to his ſucceſſors too, as it fell out with S. Iohn, to learne of them which wee bookes of Scripture, and what was the meaning of the ſeuerall places or texts; and what was true, what falſe in Diuinity.
Beſides, the matter it ſelfe is of ſuch importance, by their doctrine, that without the conſtant beliefe thereof, and obedience according thereto, there is no poſſibility of ſaluation. For, Whoſoeuer (ſaith Bellarmine) will not be ſed by Peter, De verb. Dei. lib 3. cap. 5. Sect. quartum.that is, learne of him or his ſucceſſors as iudges and determiners, what he is to take for matter of faith, and what is the ſenſe of the Scripture, is none of Chriſts ſheepe.