Defense of Perkins Book Called a Reformed Catholic, Front matter · Dedication 1
speaker D. B. P. TO THE MOST PVISSANT, PRVDENT, AND RENOWMED PRINCE, IAMES the first, by the grace of God, King of England, Scotland, France, and Ireland, Defendor of the Faith, &c.
MOst Gratious and dread Souera…gne. Albeit my slenddr skill cannot affoord any discourse worthie the view of your Excellencie, neither my deadded, and daily interrupted, and *Not … but pers…s, that studie … plo… Treasonpersecuted studies, will giuegive me leaue to accomplish that little, which otherwise I …ght vndertake and performe: Yet being …nbolde…ed, both by your high …, and gratious fauour, euer shewed vntounto all good litterature, especially concerning Diuinitie: and also vrged by mine owne bounden dutie, and particular affection; I presume to present vntounto your Highnes this sho… …ing …eatise. For your exceeding clemencie, …es, and rare modestie, in the most e…inent estate of to mightie a Monarch; as it cannot but winne vntounto you great louelove, in the h…arts of all considerate Subiects: so on the other side doth it encourage them confidently to open their mindes, and in dutifull manner to vnfold themselves vntounto their so louing and astable a S…u…rai…ne. And whereas … the no vulgar praise of your Ma…est…es p…e) you hauehave made open and often profession of your vigilancie and care, to aduance the diuine honor of our Sa… Christ, and his most sacred Religion: Then what faithfull Ch…an should slagger, or feare to lay open, and deliuer publikely, that which he assureth himselfe to be ver… expedient, necessarie, and a reeable towards the furnishing, and se…ting forward of so heauenly a worke? Moreouer, if I your Maiesties poore subiect, hauehave by studie at home, and trauaile abroad, attained vntounto any small talent of learning, and knowledge: to whom is the vse and fruite thereof more due, then vntounto my so gra…ous, and withall, so learned a Liege?
speaker A. W. Is it a dutifull manner of vnfolding your selfe, to charge his Maiesties gouernment with persecution, and that of mens studies, with persecuting heauily the sincere professors of the onelyonly true Catholike faith? with molesting grieuously great numbers of most ciuill biects? with mingling his gouernment with bitter stormes of persecution? to threaten him with feare of rebellion or treason? Indeede, I must needes say, you vnfold your selfe perhaps more than you would. For whereas your desire is to lie hid vnderunder the cloake of commending his Maiestie, for exceeding mildnes, clemencie, affabilitie, &c. before you are aware, the truth of your opinion breakes out, and bewraies it selfe to all the world.
speaker D. B. P. Finally, for a proofe of my sinceritie, affection, and dutifull louelove towards your Maiestie, this may I iustly say that in time of vncertaine fortune (when assured friends are most certainely tried) I both suffered disgrace, and hinderance for it, being stiled in Print, A Scotist in faction: therein farther employing my pen in Atvvo-solde discourse (which I hope hath been presented to the view of your Maiestie) the one containing a defence of your Highnes honour: the other of your title, and interest of the Crowne of England. And if then my zeale and louelove of truth, and obligation to your Maiestie, drew me out of the compasse of mine owne profession, to treate of law courses: I trust your benigne Grace will now licence me, out of the same fountaine of …ruencie and like zeale vntounto Gods t…uth, no lesse respecting your Maiesties eternall honour, and heauenly inheritance, something to say in matters of diuinitie: hauing been the best part of my studie, for more then thrise seuer, yeares.
speaker A. W. The late quarrels betwixt the professed, and secret traitors, the Iesuites and Priests, hauehave made all men of any iudgement, able to discerne, what disgraces and hinderances either part hath by other; when both parts can so easily and suddenly agree with the good liking of your lay-Papists. The best seruice you doe his Maiestie, in this book, is that you confesse so plainly, that both his honour, and his title to the Crowne of England, were not onelyonly called into question, but iniured, and denied by your Popish saction. And yet this intelligence you giuegive him, is no newes: for it was discouered before out of a letter of Parsons in b…the Iesuites defence, against the Secular Priests.
speaker D. B. P. Whereinto I may conueniently enter with that golden sentence, with which your Maiestie began the Conference, holden in Ia…y last, betweene certaine of your …cts, about some controue…sie … R…ligion: A Ioue principium: conformable to that in holy writ, I … …, a…d Apoc. cap. 1. 8.Omega, that is, The begianing, and the end, saith our Lord: And …ying it vntounto Princes, I may be bolde to say, that nothing is more expedient, and necessarie for Kings: nothing more honourable, and of be… assurance for their estate, then that in the very beginning of their …a…gne, they take especiall o…der, that the suprea…ne, and most pu…ssa…t M…narch of heauen and earth, be purely, and vprightly serued, aswell in their owne exemplar liues, as throughout their Dominions. For of Almighty God his meere bouncde and great grace, they receiue and holde their D…adems and …cely Seep…ers: and cannot possesse and enioy them (their mighty Forces, and most prudent Counsailes notwithstanding) one day longer, then during his d…e will and pleasure. Which that wise King witnesseth, speaking in the person of Gods wisedome, Per me Reges regnant, Pronerb. 4. Dan. 4.By me Kings doe raigne. And Nabuchodonozer sometime King of Babilon, was turned out to grase with beasts, for seuen yeeres, and made to know and confesse, that the highest doth comma…d ouer the kingdomes of men, and disposeth of them, as pleaseth his d…uine wisedome. But I neede not stand vponupon this poynt, being to well knowne, and duely confessed by your Ma…es…e.
speaker A. W. His Maiestie wisely, and fitly applied the saying of the Poet, to signifie, that whatsoeuer we vndertake, must be begun in the name of God, with desire, and trust of his blessing. But what conformitie hath that of Christ either with cVirg Eclog. 3 Theoc… it. Idyl. 17. foreign.the Poets sentence, or his Maiesties purpose, or your owne application? Our Sauiour truly professes of himselfe, that he is dR…. …. 1. 8. 11. & 2. 8.Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, which is, which was, and which is to come: the first, and the last: that is eternall. Neither the Poet, nor the King our of the P…t intend to speake any thing of Gods eternitie. Neither can you reasonably apply that speech of our Sauiour, to secure Princes in their estate, if they begin their gouernment with Prouiding for obedience to God, by true religion. But how little agreement there is betwixt Christs speech and the Poets, it may easily appeare by this; that if his Maiestie, in stead of Abs louelove Principiu…, should hauehave said, I am Alpha and Omega, or Christ is Alpha and Omega, no man could hauehave vnderstood his meaning by his words.
speaker D. B. P. But …thence there be in this our most miserable age, great diuersities of Religions, and but one onelyonly, wherewith God is truely serued and pleased, as saith the Apostle. One body, one Spirit, as you are called into one …hope of your vocation, one Lord, one Faith, one Baptisme: My most humble suite and supplication, to your high Maiestie is, that you to your eternall good, will imbra…e, maintaine, and set forth that onelyonly true, Catholike, and Apostolike faith, wherein all your most royall progenitors liued and died or if you cannot be wonne so soone, to alter that Religion in which it hath been your misfortune, to hauehave been bred and brought vp: That then in the meane season, you will not so heauily persecute, the sincere professors of the other.
speaker A. W. It is an easie matter to perswade his Maiestie to maintaine, and set foorth the onelyonly true Catholike and Apostolike faith: that is, to doe, that he doth alreadie. But the Romane religion hath neuer an one of these properties: as it will appeare in the suruay of your reformation.
Diuers of his Maiesties progenitors liued and died in the profession of true religion many yeeres before a number of your Popish heresies were hatcht. Neither doth hee now maintainc it, because, by Gods speciall prouidence, he hath been brought vp in it; but for that as it appeares in the • Anno 1580. Iune 20.Confession of Scotland, after long and due examination his Maiestie is thoroughly resolued in the truth by the word and spirit of God.
Who would thinke that hee which a little before iustlie commended his Maiestie for exceeding clemencie, mildnes, louingnes and affablenes, should now challenge him for persecuting heauily the sincere professors of the onelyonly true Catholike and Apostolike faith?
speaker D. B. P. Very many vrgent, and for…ible reasons might be produced, in fauour and de…e…ce of the Catholike Romane Religion, whereof diuers hauehave bin in most learned treatises, tendered to your Maiestie already. Wherefore I will onelyonly touch three: two of them chosen out of the subiect of this booke: The third selected from a sentence of your Maiesties, recorded in the aforesaid Conference.
speaker A. W. I doubt not but if those learned treatises, you bragge of, be come to his Maiesties hands, either they hauehave had, or shal ere long receiue sufficient answere. In the meane while, let vsus consider these your reasons.
speaker D. B. P. And because that argument is, as most sensible, so best assured, which proceedeth from a principle that is either euident in it selfe or else granted, and confessed for true: My first proofe shall be grounded vponupon that your Maiesties owne resolute, and constant opinion (as it appeareth in the said Conference) to wit: That no Church ought further to separate it Pag. 7….selfe from the Church of Rome, either in doctrine or ceremonie, then she hath departed from her selfe, vvhen she vvas in her flourishing, and best estate. From whence I deduce this reason: The principall Pillers of the Church of Rome in her most flourishing estate, taught in all poynts of Religion, the same Doctrine, that she now holdeth and teacheth; and in expresse tearmes condemneth for error and heresie, most of those Articles, which the Protestants esteeme to be the principall parts of their reformed Gospell: Therefore if your Maiestie will resolutely imbrace, and constantly defend that doctrine, which the Roman Church maintained in her most flourishing estate; you must forsake the Protestant, and take the Catholike into your Princely protection.
speaker A. W. The most flourishing and best estate of the Church of Rome is that out of question, of the sinceritie whereof wee hauehave witnes in the fRom. 1. 8.Scripture: from which no Church ought, or may depart: not because they may not dissent from the Church of Rome; but because they must hold the true faith: for which the Apostle commends the Church of Rome, that then was.
The antecedent of your reason is false. The Church of Rome, in the Apostles time, did not teach many of those points that the Popish Romish Church now holds; witnes the Epistle to the Romanes, wherein diuers maine matters of her faith are recorded.
speaker D. B. P. To demonstrate vntounto your Maiestie, that we now hold in all poynts, the very same Doctrine, which the most approoued auncient Doctors, and holy Fathers held and deliuered: Because it is too long for an Epistle, I reserue it to the booke it selfe, for the poynts it handleth; and will here briefly note out of it, some such old reprooued errors, that the Protestants doe reuiue, receiue, and auowe, as the very sinnewes of their Gospell.
speaker A. W. The most approued ancient Doctors & holy fathers, were the Apostles, with whom, how you shew your agreement, in the points, this booke handles, wee shall see in the particulars: All other writers hauehave those properties in a farre inferiour degree: from among whom, if I would deale strictly with you, I might pick the Fathers of the Greeke Churches, and all those of the Latin that were not members of the Romane, as it was a distinct Church from all other: For so is the gAmbros. de sacra lib. 3. c. 1 Prosper de lib. a…b. ad Russin.Romane Church conceiued, and spoken of by his Maiestie. But I will not presse you so hard, though I may chance to put you in minde of it now and then.
All points that hauehave been reprooued by some of the ancient writers are not errors, and many times the same words hauehave not the same meaning.
speaker D. B. P. Martin Luther the ring-leader of the new pretended reformation, layeth for the ground-worke of his Religion, That man is iustified by *By faith only, or by faith a…one, vvere english, so is not, by only faith. Aug. d… … & openbus cap. …4. Cap. 20.only saith: and in this he is applauded and followed of all Protestants: and yet as testifieth the most sound witnes of antiquitie, S. Austin, that only faith is sufficient to Saluation, was an error sprung vp in the Apostles dayes; against which, the Catholike Epistles of S. Peter, and S. Iames, and S. Iohn, were principally directed. And the author of that error was that infamous Sorcerer Simon Magus; as the blessed Martyr Ireneus hath recorded in his first booke against heresies.
speaker A. W. For the doctrine of iustification by faith onelyonly, I referre the reader to the article of iustification. That we are vnlike the heretikes, of whom S. Augustine speakes, it may thus ap…. The faith they so magnified, was a dead faith The Apostle (… hDe side… oper. cap. 1…. Non quale … … …, &c.Austin, in refutation of them) speaks not of eueryevery kind …, by which we beleeue in God; but of that wholesome and truly …angelicall faith, the workes whereof proceede from louelove. And againe: How long therefore will they be deceiued that promise themselues euerlasting life by a dead faith? Besides, they despised good workes as needles, either before, or after iustification. iHoc Paulum arbitra… sunt dic…re, … …alum, &c.They thought (saith Augustine) that Paul wild vsus to doe euill that good might come of it. But it was not the Apostles meaning (saith he) that by the professing and inioyning of faith, kVt opera iu stitia contem na…tur.good workes of righteousnes should be despised: But that eueryevery man might know that he may be iustified, l…iamsi legis opera nō prae…esterint.though he hauehave not done the workes of the Law before. For they follow him that is iustified, not goe before him that is to be iustified. Yea m… cap. 20Simon the Sorcerer doubted not, blasphemously to affirme, that the commandements of holy life were giuen by the Angels, that made the world, who thereby n….brought men into sla…rie. Of whom o… D. B. P. … cap. … … Aug. …Theod…ret saith, that because men are saued by grace and faith, therefore he gaue by all meanes … to commit wickednes.
speaker A. W. An other principall piller of Fryer Luthers Religion, con… niall of free will; wherein he iumpeth with the olde rotten … Manes, of whom the Mani…d cans were named.
Manes so denied free will, that he tooke away all assent of the will, in mens daily sinnes, making the necessitie of sinning naturall, from the creation, as proceeding from the euill god, or beginning, which he blasphemously and absurdly deuised: pAugust. d… side contra Manich. cap. 6. 7. & de hares. cap 46.He (saith Augustine) made two diuers beginnings, each contrary to other, and both eternall. And from these two natures and substances of good and euill; so that he ascribed the beginning of sinne, not to the freedome of will, but to the substance of the aduerse faction. Yea so faire proceeded the Manichees, that they affirmed qCo…. … Ma…ich. lib. … cap. 8.(saith the same Augustine) that eueryevery liuing creature had two soules, rA gente l… à gente … brarum.one from light, another from darknes. Manes brought in fatall necessitie sHistor. l…b. … cap. 10.(saith Socrates) and tooke away free will. We contrariwise acknowledge that there is but one God, or author of all things created, that he made vsus in our kinde perfectly good. That sinne came in first by freedome of will both in men and Angels, and that, by free will, without any necessitie of constraint, it is daily committed. It appeares further, to our comfort, in that place of tPr… …al. co… Pelag…S. Hierome, that the Catholikes, or true Christians in his time, were in like sort charged by the Pelagians, with the Manichees error, in denying free will; because they would not confesse, that a man may be without sinne, if he will: which is one point of difference betwixt vsus and the Papists.
speaker D. B. P. One Pro…lus an erronius Origenist taught that sinne was not taken away …in Baptisme, but only couered, as is recorded by that holy man, and auncient Father E…anius. M. Per…ins (in the name of the Church of England) affirmeth in like manner, that originall sinne remaineth still, and raigneth in the regenerate, albeit it is not imputed vntounto them.
speaker A. W. Neither Methodius, out of whom uEpiphan. tom. 1. lib. 2. haeres. 64. & ibid. Methodius.Epiphanius recites Proclus opinions, in many leaues together word for word; nor Epiphanius himselfe refute that of the remainders of sin, after Baptisme: rather they both confesse, that the *foreign.sproutes and branches of concupiscence abide in vsus; yea that *foreign.sinne dwels in vsus, by which the diuell preuailes. The Apostle (saith Methodius) Rom. 7. seemes to make a three-fold law. The first, the law of the minde, according to that good that is ingrafted in vsus. The second, by the assault of the diuell, vrging and distracting the minde, by imaginations yforeign.full of passion. The third, which zforeign.triumphs in the flesh by sinne; which the Apostle calles the law of sinne dwelling in our members. That aHieronym. contra Pelag. lib. 1. in princip.Hierom is of our opinion in this point, it appeares in his booke against the Pelagians.
speaker D. B. P. Iouinian was accounted a Monster by S. Augustine, for defending honest Marriage to be of equall vertue, and merite with chaste Virginitie: and saith further that this heresie was so sottish and fleshly; that it could not deceiue any one learned Priest, but onelyonly some few simple and carnall women. Yet this our English champion blusheth not to affirme that marriage is not only equall, but better also in diuers respects than Perkin. pag. 163.Virginitie.
speaker A. W. S. Austin was neither so ancient, nor so holie, as S. Paul: hauing him on our side, we neede not feare the other. But the report, you make of him, is vntrue. For these are his words in English. bAugust. retract. lib. 2. cap. 22.This heresie preuailed so much in the citie of Rome, that it is said to hauehave throwne into the estate of mariage euen some vowed virgins, of whose chastitie there had been no suspition before. So farre is Augustine from calling them simple, and carnall. Beside he addes (though you will not be knowne of it) that he cFrangebat.weakned and ouerthrew the holy single life of holie men, by rehearsing and commending the Fathers, (Abraham, Isaack, Iacob) who were married men. And whereas he saith, it could not come to the deceiuing of dAliquorum sacerdotum.any Priests, (for learned and any one is your glosse, besides the text) he seemes to attribute it to the short continuance thereof. It was eAugust. de haeres. cap. 82.(saith he) quickly opprest and extinguished, and could not come to the deceiuing of any Priests.
speaker D. B. P. The same olde reprobate heretike, barked also against approoued feasts and fasting dayes, so doe most of our Ministers at this time.
speaker A. W. Our Ministers doe all generally approoue both of feasts and fasting daies, keeping the former more religiously, than you doe ordinarily the Sabbath. The latter we obserue with reuerence and humilitie, whensoeuer they are appointed. 5. Eliz. cap. 5. Ra…als Abri… ment of Ships and Shipping.Fish daies superstitiously abused by you, are ciuilly retained by vsus with lesse riot than your selues doe vse.
speaker D. B. P. Vigilantius was sharpely reprooued by S. Hierome, in a booke written against him, and hath been euer since vntounto this day, esteemed a wicked heretike, for denying prayer to Saints, and honour to be done vntounto their Reli…es: And yet, what poynt of Doctrine is more currant among the Protestants, than this?
speaker A. W. fIn censura sua in illum Hieronymilibrum.Erasmus, not without cause, findes want of modestie in that treatise of Hieroms; he might hauehave found want of truth too, if Vigilantius held no worse opinion, than those you recite. But of the former, namely praying to Saints, neither the one, nor the other speakes a word. And indeede it was not the manner in those daies to pray to the Martyrs, but to pray gO…phr. de ritu sepeliendi mortu…. Eusebius hist. lib. 7. cap. 11.at their Tombes: which custome, it should seeme remained till that time, according to the former practise of the Christians, who assembled ordinarily where the Martyrs were hforeign, dorters, sleeping places. Tertulliano Areae. ad Sc… pulam. Aug ad q. vul…, haeres. 53.buried, before they were suffered to hauehave any Churches.
speaker A. W. In like sorte, one Aërius to the Arrian heresie, added this of his owne; That we must not pray for the soules of our friends departed; as S. Augustine hath registred. And doe not all Protestants imbrace and earnestly defend the same?
This doctrine of prayer for the dead, the deniall whereof is counted an errour in Aërius, hath no foundation in the Scripture, but was built vponupon the tradition of the Fathers, as iEpiphan. lib. 3. Tom. 1. haeres. 75.he, from whom Austin takes the accusation, confesseth.
speaker A. W. A common custome it was of the Arrians, and of other more auncient heretikes, to reiect all Traditions, and to rely onelyonly vponupon the written D. B. P. Lib. 3. c. 20. Lib. 1. con. Maximinum.word, as testifieth S. Ireneus and S. Augustine. Doe not ours the same, reiecting all Traditions as Mans Inuention.
A perilous error, no doubt, to rest wholy vponupon the written word: that is, to beleeue none but God, in matters of his owne worship and religion. kIrenaeus lib. 1. cap. 20.Ireneus, in the places alleaged, hath no word of reiecting traditions: rather hee speakes the contrarie of Simon Magu…, who reiected the Scripture, to establish his owne deuices. S. Austin findes no fault with Maximinus for resting vponupon the Scriptures; nor indeede reasonably could: for it is his own doctrine in that lAugust. cont. Maxim. lib. 3. cap. 14.conference with the Heretike, and mCont. Dona tist. lib. 2. cap. 6 & de v…at. …. …les. 2. 3. 6.other where.
speaker D. B. P. Xea…s a Barba…ous Persian indeed, yet in shew a counterfeited Christian; is noted for one of the first among Christians, that inueyed against the Images of Saints, and the worship done by true Christians vntounto them; as both Nicephorus, and Ced… comppen… doe recorde. N…ceph lib. 10. ….The reprobate Iewes indeede before him, and after euen vntill this day, the mis…r…an…. Turkes (enemies of all Christianitie) doe dwell still in the same er…r: And yet is not this most vehemently auer…ed by our Protestants, and all …alui…sts; although they cannot denie but that aboue 900. yeares agoe, in the second generall Councell holden at Nice, they are by the con…nt of the best, and most learned of the world, for euer accursed that doe denie reuerence and worshippe, to be giuen vntounto the Images of Saints?
speaker A. W. n… … of this …ame, Callistus, and Gregores, both writers of histories.Nicephorus (you should hauehave added Callistus, that the reader might hauehave knowne whom you meant, and hauehave quoted oNicephor. Callist. lib. 16. cap. 27.lib. 16. not 10.) who liued not 400. yeeres since, and pC…nus pag. 290.Cedrenus, who liued, as it is thought, about the yeere 1058. are neither of antiquitie, nor credit to auow a historie not recorded by any of their ancients. But how could Xenaias, about the yeere 478. be one of the first, if the qCommentar… in Dama…. Orthod. sid. li. 4. cap. 17.Commentarie vponupon Damascen say true: That the worshipping of Images was condemned as superstitious, by some, about the beginning of the Gospell preached? Cedrenus saith be was one of the first; Callistus after him more then 200. yeeres, saith he was the first.
speaker D. B. P. The rSee …y ansvvere in the treatise of images tovvard the end.second Councel of Nice was a conuenticle of Idolaters, neither of the best, nor of the most learned; and was presently after condemned by the Councell of Frankfort.
I will omitte sundrie other heades of the Protestants Religion, by all approued antiquitie reproued, aad condemned, that I passe not the boundes of an Epistle, and seeme ouer tedious vntounto your Maiestie. Especially considering that these are sufficient, to conuince that those points (wherein the Protestants affirme the present Church of Rome, to hauehave so farre degenerate from the auncient) are the very essentiall parts of saith, then maintayned by the Romans: And the contrary opinions nothing else, but wicked heresies, of old inuented, and obstinately helde against the same Roman See, euen as they are now our time: and of old also condemned by the same Church in her most flourishing and best estate. Wherefore your most excellent Maiestie, being resolute in that singular good opinion, (that no Church ought farther to depart from the Church of Rome, then shee is departed from her selfe in her flourishing estate,) must needes recall the Church of England, from such extrauagant opinions, to ioyne with the Roman Church in the aforesaid articles, which shee in her best time helde for parts of pure faith: And in all others also which they cannot directly proue (in a lawfull disputation before your Maiestie) to hauehave beene altred by her, particularly naming the point of Doctrine; the author o… the chaunge: the time and place, where, and when ht liued: who followed him, who resisted him, and such other like circumstances, which all bee easily shewed in eueryevery such reuolte or innouation: because th… vigilant care of the Pastors of Christs flocke, hauehave bin alwaies so great, as no such things could be vnknowne, let slippe, or vnrecorded.
Thus much for my first reason, collected from the vntruth of the Protestants religion.
speaker A. W. What are nine points to nine skore; that I may speake the least? and yet it is not prooued, that any of these were held by the Romanes, whose faith sRom. 1. 8.S. Paul commends; nor indeed euer can be.
It is enough for vsus, if we can shew by record of Scripture, that the doctrine the Church of Rome now holds, is not that she maintained in her best estate: which we often hauehave done, and alwaies will be ready to doe. Is it not a good plea in law, to prooue by ancient euidences and deedes, that the land was mine, vnlesse I can shew when, and how the possession of eueryevery house, Medow, Close, &c. was lost? yet it stands you vponupon to proue how you came by it, and by what right you hold it. Which you must doe, when all comes to all, by the Scripture, or else your title will neuer be good.
speaker D. B. P. The second shall be grounded vponupon the vngodlines of it, where I wil let passe that high point of impiety, that they make God (who is goodnes it selfe) the author of all wicked actions, done in the world: *Tvvo monstrous vntr… … hauehave shewed else vvhere.And will besides say nothing of that their blasphemie against our Sauiour Iesus Christ, that he ouercome with the paines of his passion vponupon the Crosse, did doubt, (if not dispaire) of his owne saluation: being vnwilling to touch any other poynts, then such as are afterwards discussed in this booke.
speaker A. W. You may well let both these passe: for they are your slanders, not our opinions, as hath been shewed sufficiently tIn my ansvvere to the 12. Articles. part. 2. art. 5. and part. 1. art. 4. The disdaine is at your idolagrie, not at the.elsewhere.
The triumphant Citizens of heauen (who enioy the presence of God, and happiest life that can be imagined) are by Protestants disdainfullie termed, Dead men, and esteemed neither to hauehave credit with God to obtaine any thing, nor any care or compassion on men, among whom they once liued and conuersed so kindly.
The Saints departed we louelove and honour, but are forced to call them dead men, as uDe vera relig. cap. 55.Austin doth, by reason of your Idolatrie; with the same disdaine, in our weake measure, with which the *Phil. 3. 2. Gal. 5. 2.Apostle disgraced Circumcision. Of their credit with God we doubt not; their care of men we denie not: but xSee my ansvvere to 12. Articl. par. 1. art. 4. H. What does your Po…e, that may release them all and will not?wee know no calling they hauehave to become our mediatours, with dishonour to God and Christ.
And as for the poore soules departed, who in Purgatorie fire pay deare for their former delightes and pleasures; they depriue them of all humane succour, by teaching the world to beleeue that there is no such matter.
speaker D. B. P. ySee my ansvvere to 12. Articl. part. 1. art. 4. l. Vtterly vntrue.We depriue them of nothing, that God in the Scripture allowes them. Prooue your Purgatorie thence, and we will confesse our error.
Concerning vsus Christians yet liuing on earth, there is no lesse impietie in their opinions: For they teach that the best Christian is no better in effect, then a whited Sepulchre, being inwardly full of all wickednes, and mischiefe; and onlie by an outwarde imputation of Christs righteousnes vntounto them, are accepted of God for iust. To thinke that there is inherent in the soule of Man, any such grace of God, as doth cleanse it from sinne, and make the man iust in his sight; is with them, to We acknowledge such a grace, though not to iustification.raze the foundation of Religion, and to make Christ a Pseudochrist: wherein, I know not whether they be more enuious against the good of Man, then they are iniurious, either to the inestimable value of Christs blood, as though it could not deserue any better estate for his fauourites: or vntounto the vertue and efficacie of the holy Ghost; as not being able (by likeliehood) to purge mens soules from sinne, and endue them with such Heauenly qualities. I omitte the disgrace thereby don to the Blessed God-head it selfe, making the Holie of Holies, father willing to couer and cleake our iniquitie, then to cure it. And contrarie to his infinite goodnes, to louelove them whom hè seeth defiled with all manner of abhominations.
speaker A. W. We acknowledge eueryevery true Christian to be righteous in the sight of God after iustification, by z1. Cor. 6. 11.inherent, though imperfect, righteousnes; and account none whited sepulchers, but those that bragge or make shee of holines, aMatth. 23. 27being but hypocrites. We ascribe our iustification wholy and onelyonly to the merciemercy of God, in bRom. 4. 3, 4▪ ….forgiuing our sinnes, for Christs obedience, by accounting c….faith to vsus for rightcousnes. We enuie not the good of man, but preferre Gods truth before mans pride. Our Sauiour Christs sacrifice we megnifie, as infinitly perfect; but wee know the whole e…t thereof is not perfected at once in vsus, though the holie Ghost be of infinit power, which, in respect of vsus, is limited by the gratious and wise prouidence of God. We teach that God doth not onelyonly couer our sinnes, by forgiuing them; but cure our corruption, by abolishing it wholy, yet d1. Cor. 13▪ …. Rom. 7. 23. 2. Cor. 12. 9.by little and little. His louelove depends not vponupon our righteousnes: for he loued vsus, eRom. 5. 8. 1. Ioh 4. 10.when wee were most vnrighteous: but vponupon the estate of fGal. 4 6. Rom. 8. 15.being his sonnes, members of his beloued sonne Iesus Christ, and gEphe…. 1. 3. …elected to adoption and saluation by him, before the foundation of the world was laid.
speaker D. B. P. VntoUnto these paradoxes, impious against God, and slaunderous to man: If it will please your Maiestie to adde, the prophane carnallity of some other poynts of the Protestant Doctrine; you will (doubtles) in short time loath it. As for example: I hat it is as good and godly, by eating, to And ea…e of vn….feede the bodie, as to chastize it by fasting. That it is as holy, to fulfill the fleshly desires of it by Mariage, as by Continencie, to mortifie them; yea that it is flat against the word of God to vow Virginitie: And also contrarie to his blessed will to bestowe our goods on the poore, and to giuegive our selues wholy to prayer, and fasting. All which, this Aduocate of the English Congregation teacheth express…e
Is this the puritie of the Gospell? Or is it not rather the high way to Pag. 132. 162. 16… ▪Epicurisme, and to all worldly vanitie, and iniquitie?
speaker A. W. To chastice the bodie by fasting wee hold it not only good, but of tentimes h1. Cor. 9. 27.necessary: though we acknowledge neither merit, nor satisfaction in it, which accompanie your popish fasts. Mortification of iRom. 6. … Col. 3. 5.all kindes of lusts, not only that one, we account a necessarie part of sanctification; neither doe wee allow mariage to fulfill the lust of the flesh, k1. Cor. 7. 2. ….but to remedie it: vowing of virginitie we approoue not, because a man cannot be sure that he shall keepe his vow alwaies, though for a time he be able: besides, all lawfull vowes being things indifferent, l1. Cor 6 12.charitie must giuegive iudgement of excediencie in making th…n. mSee my ansvv… … the … of V….To make prayer and fasting our whole worke, is to liue in the world without a calling. To giuegive away our goods to the poore, so to become chargeable to others, is to tempt God, and burthen the Church: to doe it with opinion of merit, is popish pride against Gods glorie.
speaker D. B. P. I neede not ioyne hereunto, that they teach it to be impossible to keepe Gods Commaundements; and therefore in vaine to goe about it: And fa…ther, that the best worke of the righteous man, is defiled with I deny both your consequences. Borrovved out of the tvvelue Articles, and ansvvered by me heretofore. Rom. 6.sinne. Wherefore, as good for him to leane all vndone, as to doe any.
Nay, if this position of theirs were true, it would to low necessarilie, that all men were bound vnderunder paine of damnation, neuer to doe any good deede, to long as they liue: for that their good deede being stayned with sinne, cannot but deserue the hyre of sinne, which according to the Apostle is: Death euerlasting. If your Maiesties important affaires, would once permit you to consider maturely of these impieties, and many other like absurdities, wherewith the Protestant Doctrine is stuffed: I dare be bold to say that you would speedely either commaund them, to reforme themselues, and amend their errors; or fairely giuegive them their Congie.
speaker A. W. We say it is nSee my ansvvere to 12. Articl. part. 2. art. 3.impossible to keepe Gods commandements perfectly to iustification; but wee denie, that therefore it is in vaine to goe about it. Yea we truly affirme, that we are o1. Cor. 15. 58bound to doe our best endeuour, and shall hauehave acceptation and reward of our workes from God, though not vponupon any desert of ours. p…o the 12. Art. part. 2. art. 2.That our best workes are tainted with imperfections we professe plainly: That they are therefore to be left vndone, neither we say, nor you can prooue: The imperfection that cleaues to them, is by all good meanes to be auoyded, but the workes to be performed: for it is not the worke, but the imperfection in it that is forbidden.
speaker D. B. P. I will close vp this my second reason, with this Epiphoneme. That it is impossible for a Protestant, firmely cleaning to the grounds of his ovvne Religion, to hope for any saluation. For they doe, and needes must graunt, that no man can be saued without a liuely faith; and also that a liuely faith cannot be without charitie, for otherwise it were dead: Now then to the purpose; No Protestant can hauehave charitie: for as witnesseth Saint Iohn. This is the charitie of God, that vve keepe his commaundements. But it is impossible (according to the Protestants) to keepe the commandements: … Epist. cap. 5. 3therfore also impossible to hauehave charitie; VVhichWhich is the …ulnes of Rom 13.the lavve: and consequently impossible to hauehave a liuely faith, which cannot be without charitie. And so finally through want of that l…uely feeling faith, whereby they should lay hold on Christs righteousnesse, to hale and apply that vntounto themselues, they can hauehave no hope at all, of any fauour, and grace at Gods hands: Without which they must needes assure themselues of eternall damnation, in steede of their pretended certain… of saluation.
speaker A. W. True charitie, though not perfect, may be had in this life, and by it the commandements of God may bee, and are kept, though not perfectly: so that a Protestant, firmely cleaning to the grounds of his religion, may yet hope for saluation.
speaker D. B. P. To these two arguments, gathered out of the treatise following, I adde a third, collected from these your owne memorable wordes related in the aboue named conference: viz. Are wee now come to that passe, Pag. 69.that we must appeache Constantine of Poperie and superstition? Which argueth that your Maiestie iudgeth them, to hauehave little regard of either piety or ciuility, that would admit such a thought into their minde, as that the first Christian Emperour (our most renowned countriman) should bee nousled and brought vp in superstition: wherein your Maiestie hath great reason, for he was most carefully instructed, and taught the Christian Religion, by such holy Confessors, whose sinceritie in faith had bin tried in the hotte furnace of many strange persecutions: And he farther had the good happe to see, and heare together in the first generall Councell of Nice, many of the holiest, and best learned Bishops of Christendome. Therefore, is it most vnlikely that so Royall a Person, deuoted to Religion, add hauing so good meanes to attayne to the perfect knowledge thereof, as no man could hauehave better; should neuerthelesse in the purest time of it, be mis-ledde into errour, and superstition. If then, it may be prooued, that this most Christian Emperour (the glittering ornament of our noble Iland) did beleeue such articles of the present Roman Church, as the Protestants teach not to be beleeued: Will not your Maiestie rather ioyne in faith with so pee…les a Prince, who by the consent of all antiquitie, was for certaine right well enformed, then with these, whome (doubtles) most men deeme to be pittifullie deceiued' Now that Constantine was of the same opinion, in matter of Religion, with the present Church of Rome, may euidently bee gathered out of this that followeth.
speaker A. W. He that denies Constantine to hauehave been a worthie, a singular instrument of God, for the good of his Church, wrongs the worthie Emperour, and sinnes against God. But the triall of doctrine is to be fetched, not from the opinions and examples of men, though neuer so holie, but from the Holie of Holies. It may not seeme strange if superstition were crept into the Church before Constantines time, when the q2. Thes. 2. 7.Apostle witnesses, that euen in his daies the mysterie of iniquitie was alreadie begun.
speaker D. B. P. First, he was so affectionate vntounto the signe of the Crosse, that hee would hauehave it gloriouslie appeare, both abroade in his business, and at home in his Pallace: and in the middest of the Citie of …o…e▪ with this Euseb. de vita Constan. lib. 3. cap. 2. Lib. 2. cap. 14: Lib. 4. cap. 26.Posie: In this signe of saluation, I hauehave deliuered the Cittie. W… it also he blessed his visage.
With fasting and other corporall affliction, he chastized his body, that he might please God.
He with incredible admiration, honored prosessed Virgins, and made lawes in their fauour.
He builded many Churches in honour of the Apostles, and Martyrs.Ibidem lib. 3. cap. 47. & alibi. Ch…y …om. 66. ad pop. Antioth.
And as S. Chrysostome recordeth: He that was reuested in purple, went to embrace the Sepulchres of S. Peter, and S Paul, and all Princely state laide aside, stood humbly praying vntounto the Saints, that they would bee intercessors for him vntounto God.
He farther tooke order for the burying of his owne body, in the middest of the Tombes of the twelue Apostles, that after his death he might be partaker of the prayers, which should be there offered in the honour of the Euseb. in vita Const. lib. 4. c. 60 Ibid. cap 71.Apostles. Neither was he frustrated of his holy desire for as it followeth in the 71. Chapter of the same booke, at his funerals, the people ioyning with the Priests, with many …cares, and great sighs, powred out prayers for the good Emperours soule.
Againe, at a … feast which he held at the dedication of the Church built by … Ierusalem; some of … cleargie preached and expounded the holy Scriptures: and othe … me with vnbloudie Sacrifice, and …st all cons…cr…lions, appeased the Godhead, and prayed for the Ibidem de vi…a Const. li. 4. ca. 45h…lth of he Prince.
Moreover this …alous E…pero…r reprehended Acasius, (a Nouatian h…ke) … saying, that it was not in the power of Priests, but of Zozom. lib…. 1. hist. Eccl. cap. 21God only to forgiuesinnes.
Finally, toward true Bishops, the law full Pastors of Christs Church, he caried such a reuerend … that being in the Councell of Nice, he would not …iue dow…e, …efore they … back…ed vntounto him so to doe. And Socr hist. lib. 1. cap. 5.was so farre … vponupon h… to … p…came iudge, in causes Ecclesiasticall; that hee … th…re prof …ied, that it did not belong to him to iudge of Bishops … to be iud… by them.
It was not the …, but the thing signified, viz. Christ crucified, to which Constantine shewed his affection, and by whom he obtained all his victories; rforeign.by this God, not by this signe.
The chastising of his bodie was not to please God by the worke wrought, but to fit himselfe to prayer, whereby hee might obtaine merciemercy, sEuseb. de vita Constant. li. 2. cap. 14. foreign.saith Eusebius, appeasing God by supplication. To make virginitie a more diuine life than the maried estate, as tib. 4. cap. 26Eusibius in that place calles it, is to say Adam liued a more diuine life before God created Eua…, than he could doe afterward; and so to make her not an helpe, but an hinderance to him. uDe …aud Constant. ….Eusebius speakes not of the Apostles, but of the Martyrs, to whom the Churches were dedicated, but to God onelyonly, and were called the Lords houses, Dominicae, *foreign.foreign Kyrch, Churches. They were also named foreign, not because they were built in honour of the Martyrs, but because (as I shewed before) the Christians vsed anciently to assemble in the places xEuseb. hist. lib. 5. cap. 2.where the Martyrs had been buried; or because of Christ who was accounted the prince of Martyrs, in respect of whom the Martyrs refused the name, as belonging properly to him. Therefore Eusebius calles the Church, foreign, though the translator terme it Martyrum domum, in stead of foreign.
This testimonie out of Chrysostome may well be suspected, yPlessy de Missa lib. 3. cap. 15.being in the same words in a Sermon falsely attributed to Austin, de Sancto Paulo, and alleaged out of a later writer one Theodorus Daphnopathus, by Garret a Chanon at the least, we may well remember that caueat of zBiblioth. li. 6. Annot. 152.Sixtus Sene…sis, and take the speech to be hyperbolicall.
It aChrysost. ad Pop. Antioch. honul. 66.was the Apostles glorie, that people in such multitudes came to the places of their buriall to pray, though they prayed not to them; nor thought their prayers euer a whit the better, because they were made there. And where there is mention in Eusebius of the peoples praying for the Emperour (with more zeale than knowledge) there is no mention of honouring the Apostles by prayer.
He should hauehave said with bforeign.vnbloodie sacrifices; which were not Mastes, but cforeign.prayers, and perhaps some offerings for reliefe of the poore, and maintaining of the Temple.
Your author saies that Acasius affirmed this onelyonly of the sinne that is to death. Hereupon the Emperour replied; Set vp a ladder for thy selfe (Acasius) and goe alone into heauen: dQuae quidem arbitror imperatorem &c. Non quo eum laudaret.which (saith he) I thinke the Emperour said to Acasius, not that he might commend him, but that men might thinke, that they are not free from the staine of sinne. Sozomen, that writes the historie, thinkes the Emperour did not intend to praise Acasius, but to instruct other; you affirme peremptorily that the Emperour reprehended him.
speaker D. B. P. eSocrat hist. lib. 1. cap. 5.It pleased the gracious Emperour so much to honour those worthie and reuerend Fathers; but it becomes not your Bishops or Popes therefore to exact such behauiour of their Soueraignes; and much lesse to make them fAs Gregory the 7. s…raed the Emperour Henry the 4. his vvi…e and eldest sonne. B…nno.daunce attendance barefooted, or gAs Frederick the 1. did to Pope Hadrian the 4.hold their stirrups: as for that profession of the good Emperour, it shewes …is zeale, but prooues not that Princes may not iudge Bishops, being their subiects: especially since the reason is strong, for Soueraignes principally, for Bishops, but as their deputies. hRuffin. hist. lib. 1. cap. 5.You (saith the Emperour) are appointed gods to vsus, and it is not conuenient that man should iudge gods; but he only, of whom the iPsalm. 82. 1. Ruffi lib. 1. hist. cap 2.Psalmist saith, God sits in the assemblie of gods.
If then this right Puissant Emperor, and most sincere Christian, reuerenced the Sacrifice of the Masse, and beleeued that there was power in Priests to remitte sinnes, that Saints were to be prayed vntounto, and that prayer was to be made for the dead, and such like, as appeareth by the euident testimonie, o… most approued Author, that liued with him: hath your Maiestie any cause to doubt, but that in matters of faith, he agreed with the present Romane Church? Wherefore my hope and trust in Almighty God is, that you in your high wisedome, vponupon mature and due consideration, how many old condemned errors the Protestants holde; and with a…lwell weighing that the whole frame of their Doctrine tendeth to the disgracing of God, and his Saintes, to the discouragement of men, from well doing, and doth (as it were) loosen the reines vntounto all fleshly liberty, will in time make a most Godly resolution, to imitate that famous Emperour Constantine. He contrary to his former education, embraced with a…h spower that same Romane Religion, which we now professe: And (which is worthy to be obserued) he feared nothing the contrarie disposition of the multitude, or greater part of his subiects, that were wholy led another way. But following the blessed example of his most vertuous Mother S. Hel…a, reposed himselfe in the powerfull assistance of the Almightie, and chas… all other Religions into corners, sett ng vp and firmely …stabl shing the Roman Th…re can b…e no cause aleadged, why your Maiestie may not doe the like, i… …t shall please God effectuallie to stirre vp your gratious mi…e, and … bend your hart to vndertake it: for at that time there was more likelyhoode of resistance, then now: and no… much more helpe at hand, if any resistance should be offered.
speaker A. W. If all you hauehave said were prooued, as it is not, there are yet many more monstrous abominations in the Romish superstition, at no hand to be approoued or tolerated.
speaker D. B. P. Pardon me deere Soueraigne, if before I finish this argument, I seeme ouer-bold here to present vntounto your memory, that all your most gracious and Godly Progenitors, and all our holy Predecessors, who now (assuredly) stande before the tribunall of God; doe demaund and expect no lesse at your handes. For th y founded not Bishop…icks, Deaner…es, and other sp rituall …inges: th…y builded not Colleges, and Schooles, for Protestants or their …s Ponder well ther…fore I beseech your Maiestie, whether they doe not, or may not iustly chalenge of you (to whom the administration of iust… belongeth.) to see and proui…e: that such Churches, Church-…ing…, and spirituall rewarde, of learning, as they erected and bequeathed to Roman Fishops, and Priestes, be disposed of and bestowed according to their erections, and foundations. If it shall please the Protestants to erect any new Churches, o bestow any other reuenues towardes their ministers mayntenance, let them hauehave them hardly, and enioy them quietly: onlie let …hem be content, out of their equitie: to leaue vsus that which was prouided for vsus and bequeathed vntounto vsus by our most Religious Auncestors.
speaker A. W. Colledges, and liuings were giuen, and founded, for the increase of religion and learning; for both which they are still continued. If they, by iniurie of the time, in ignorance mistooke the truth, it is no wrong to keepe their generall purpose, with amendment of their particular error: if there be any merit in these actions, as you teach, they are much beholden to those Princes, who make their deedes truly meritorious by the right vse of them.
speaker D. B. P. If all these reasons, and exceeding manie other which might be mu stered, and produced to the same purpose, will not suffice to effect in your Maiestie, a louelove and desire, to embrace that auncient Roman f…, which all your Renowned Progenitors, so highly reuerenced, loued, and esteemed. Yet let me (prostrate on my knee) most humblie beseech your highnes, in the name of thowsandes: that so farre forth they may preuaile with you, as you will not permitte those rigorous lawes, framed against recusant Catholikes, to bee put in practize and executed. For how can it seeme comfortable to reason, in your Maiesties deepe wisedome, and iudgement? that your louing Subiects should by compulsion and constrainte, vnderunder that intollerable penaltie of losse of all their goodes, conforme themselues to such articles of Religion, that by the purest antiquitie were censured to be erronious and execrable? And what misery, and pitty were it, to driue them perforce, either to swallow downe the deadly poyson of their soules, or else to endure besides the disgrace of the state, the losse of their worldly wealth and liberty. Consider, and weigh with your selfe, …y most gratious Liege, whether it will not be thought ouer great seuerity, to presse men (euen against humane nature and condition,) with patience to heare their owne profession and beleefe, both vntruely slaundered, and most bitterly reuiled & inueighed against: as in most Ministers sermons it is commonly. Yea to giuegive patient eare to them that blush not publikely, to call our blessed Sauiours body in the holy Sacrament, an abhominable Idole; his glorious and immortall Saintes, senseles dead Men; his Vicar and Vicegerent on earth Antichrist, and eueryevery Catholike an Idolater. With infinit other intollerable reproches; Our constant hope, euen yet, (though against hope) is, that your Maiestie out of your owne sweete naturall disposition, and most milde carriage in gouernment hitherto, will not onelyonly moderate, but suspende all such extreamitie: And not suffer it to be extended against them, who in former doubtfull times, were (in manner) the only men, that defended and made manifest to the world, your Title and interest to the Crowne of England; and were no lesse willing to receiue you, when the time came: and as forward to hauehave assisted you (if need had required) as any sort of Subiects within the land. And neuer since w…ingly offended your sacred Maiestie in any thing. It may be obiected that they doe not conforme themselues vntounto a statute lawe, made against their Religion: Be it so. Then their Religion toward God, not any contempt of their lawfull Superiour, doth commaund them from the conformity, which is pardonable. Considering that they be no inuenters, or followe…s of nouelties, but onelyonly hold on and perseuer in the …aith of their forefathers. And what subiect is there among the most dutifull, that doth not often transgresse and giuegive offence to one statute law or other: yet for no other law, men are so hardly dealt withall, albeit they violate many of them together. OnelyOnly Ca…holikes are for the tra…ressing of one, hu…peled and handled as though they were some haynous rebbels, and tray…ors: Who (be it spoken without disparagement to others) are (by them that liue neare them) esteemed co…monly, the most orderly subiects; as true of their wordes, a… …und in their deedes, of as great charitie and hospitalitie towardes their neighbours, and compassion of the poore: briefly, of as moderate and c…le carriage and behauiour, as mo… men in their Countrie: So that to begger and vndoe them (as the execution of that lawe established, must needes doe the poorer sort of them,) would bee little lesse then to vndoe and destroy all good order, and Discipline in the common weale.
speaker A. W. It is required by God at the Princes hands to see, that all his subiects performe true worship to the true God: how then can his Maiestie suffer thousands (as you say) to defile the land, and dishonour God by such a seruice, as he knowes to be idolatrous? For the punishment, and reason of it, I referre all men to kTo an Epistle of a Puritan-Papist. VVhy not Cui bono?Master Powels answere, lately published.
speaker D. B. P. Before I make an end, I beseech your Maiestie, that the old worthie saying of Cassian may be diligently examined: Cu… bo…um? For whose commoditie, to what end and purpose must such numbers of most ciuill subiects, be so grieuously molested? What is the cause why your peaceable and ioyfull gouernment, should be so mingled with such bitter stormes of persecution? Is it to extinguish the Catholike faith? It …eth not in mans power to suppresse and destroy that, which the Almightie supporteth and maintaineth. The gates of …ll shall not preu…e against the Catholike Church. And let but those graue and wise counsailers (who Matth. 16.hauehave managed the state in our late Queenes daies) enforme your Maiestie vvhether all those terrible persecutions that then vvere most vehemently pursued, did any vvhit at all diminish the number of Recusants: or rather did not greatly multiplie and encrease them, from one at the first to an hundred and moe in continuance. But it may be, they entend by those penall lavves, to enrich your Maiestie, and to fill your coffers: Surely the receits vvill fall our much too short, to g…ovv to any such reckoning. And vvhat delight to en…ich your treasurie, and stuffe your coffers vvith regrets, and outcries of the husband, vvife, children, vvidovves, and poore infants, vvhen as the best and most assured treasurie of a King, is (by the prudent esteemed) to consist in the louelove, and heartie affection of his people? Or are these penall lavves, and forfeitures ordained for revvards vntounto such dependents, as for these or the like doe follovv you? But the reuenues, preferments, and offices, belonging to your Crovvne of England, are abundantly able to content and revvard them, that shall deserue vvell of the common-vveal…, vvithout that so heauie agrie…ance and heart bleeding of others your Maiesties good subiects. And your Maiesties high vvisedome, and long experience in gouernment, can best remember you, that such men are not so mindfull of benefits receiued, as the daily vvant and miserie, vvill continually renue and reuiue the memorie of the oppressed.
And vvhen they shall see no hope of remedie, the state being novv Novv… are in your right veine.setled, and a continuall posteritie like to ensue of one nature and condition: God knovveth vvhat that forcible vveapon of necessirie may constraine and driue men vntounto a… length.
speaker A. W. Doe you accuse his Maiestie of desiring to extinguish the Catholike faith? or doe you dallie with him by this question? lTo the 12. Art. …art. 1. art. 1. D.The gates of hell are set open to all men by your catholike faith: so that the diuell will neuer seeke to preuaile against it. Either the generall opinion of all men, and the bragges of your owne side are very vaine and false, or else for one Papist in her Maiesties daies and gouernment, there are three now at the least, vponupon the very hope of toleration.
These are matters of estate vndutifully propounding to the Popes vassals occasion of heartburning against their Soueraigne, to a worse purpose. mBellarm. de summo pontif. lib. 5. cap. 4. 6. 7It is not lawfull for Christians (saith your Cardinall Bellarmine) to endure a King that is an heretike, if he attempt to draw his subiects to his heresie.
speaker D. B. P. If then there be no greater reason of vveight and moment, vvhy such dutifull and vvell deseruing Subiects, should be so grieuously afflicted Bellarm. de pontif. lib. 5. cap. 4. 6. 7. VVould you hauehave greater reason of restraint than idolatrie and treason? Matth. 13. A good reason to suffer all kind of heretikes.for their conscience: let others conceiue as they shall please, I vvill neuer suffer my selfe to be persvvaded, that your Maiestie vvill euer permit it, before I see it done. If it be further obiected, vvhy should not your Maiestie asvvell punish Catholikes in your Kingdomes, as Catholikes doe Protestants in some other Countries: I ansvvere, that in all Countries vvhere multitudes of both sorts are mixed, as it is in England: The Protestants are tolerated, as in France, Polonia, Bohemia, the Catholike States of Germanie, and Ca…tounes, according to that of the Gospell: Suffer both the wheate and co…kle to grow vntill haruest. In Spaine, and Italie, where s…arse any Protestants be, the case is otherwise. But vvhat is that to England? vvhere are very many Catholike Recusants, and Catholikely affected in eueryevery degree, not onelyonly of the Temporaltie, but in the Clergie also, hardly of the highest degrees of honour to be excepted: therefore for their number and qualitie to be tolerated.
speaker A. W. There is great reason to beare with Protestants in any countrie; because there is no apparant shew of Idolatrie in their seruing of God; nor any forraine power, vponupon whom they must depend: but Papists are euen outwardly also Idolaters, and, vponupon paine of damnation, must obey the Popes definitiue sentence (who cannot erre, in seate of iudgment) against all the Princes in Christendome.
speaker D. B. P. Lastly, if there were no other cause, but the innumerable benefits which eueryevery degree and order of men throughout England, hauehave, and do daily receiue from our most Catholike ancestors: as the constituting of so many holesome lawes; founding of so many honourable, and rich rewards of learning, as Bishopricks, Cathedrall Churches, Deaneries, Arch-deaconries, Residencies, Prebends, and Benefices: the erecting, and building of so goodly Schooles, Colledges, and Hospitals, and endowing of them with so ample possessions, which all proceeded out of the bowels of the true wisedome, pietie, and vertue of their Catholike Religion: Is not this much more then a sufficient motiue why their heires in faith, should be most benignely, and louingly dealt with? and not for the profession of the same Religion, so seuerely afflicted? Let the Protestants in those countries, where they are most molested, appeare and shew, that their predecessors in beliefe, hauehave been so beneficiall vntounto the publike weale: and I dare vndertake, that for their Ancestors sake, they shall finde much more fauour, then we sue for. Wherefore No doubt but you hauehave all Princes and estates at commaund.they can hauehave no iust cause, to repine at your Maiesties goodnes, if vponupon men of that Religion, which hath been so beneficiall vntounto your whole Realme, you take extraordinary compassion.
speaker A. W. This makes against you, rather than for you. For the strengthening of the Popish Clergie hath alwaies been the weakening of the Prince; and the establishing of the Popes absolutenes, aboue the authoritie of the Magistrate. Therefore, that the zeale of our ancestors may not become againe dangerous to our state, it is not onelyonly meete, but necessarie also, to keepe out popish persons, and opinions.
speaker D. B. P. It lying then in your Maiesties free choise and election, whether you will enlarge and extend your Royall fauour, vntounto an infinite number of your most dutifull and affectionate Subiects, who are the most vnwilling in the world to transgresse any one of your lawes, were they not Except the Pope vvill them.thereunto compelled by the law of God: or else vtterly to begger and to vndoe, both them and theirs, for their constant profession of the ancient Romane faith. My confidence in the sweete prouidence of the Almightie is, that he will mercifully incline your Royall heart, to chuse rather to pardon, then to punish; because the way of merciemercy, consorteth better with your kinde and tender nature: it is of better assurance to continue your peaceable and prosperous Raigne: it will purchase merciemercy at Gods hands, according to his owne promise: Blessed be the mercifull, Matth. 5. Thine eye shall not pittie him. Deut. 13. 8. 9.for they shall obtaine merciemercy.
I neede not adde what a consolation and comfort it will be to many score thousands of your subiects, and the greatest obligation that can be deuised, to binde them to you and yours for euer. Now what applause, and congratulation from forraine Catholike countries, would follow this your famous fact? Vndoubtedly all the glorious companie of Kings and Queenes (now in heauen) of whom you are lineally descended: and among all the rest, namely, your most sacred and deare Mother, that endured so much for her constancie in the same Catholike faith, cannot but take it most kindly, if for God and their sakes, you take into your Princely protection their followers in the Romane faith, and de fend them from oppression.
Thus most humbly crauing pardon of your Highnes, if I hauehave in any thing exceeded the limits of my bounden dutie, I beseech your blessed Sauiour to endue you, both with the true knowledge of his diuine veritie, and with the spirit of Fortitude, to embrace and defend it constantly; or at the least, gratiously to tolerate and permit it.
Your most excellent Maiesties, most obedient, and loyall subiect, and seruant. W. B.
speaker A. W. What course will best please God in this difference of profession, not humane policie, but diuine truth must determine. In which if we sincerely obey God, we shall not need to depend vponupon the liking, or misliking, either of forraine countries, or Kings, and Queenes departed; who either are no Saints of God, if they louelove popish Idolatrie; or, if they be Saints, louelove it not.