Defense of Perkins Book Called a Reformed Catholic, Point 4 · Section 8
WHETHER FAITH MAY BE without Charitie.
I Proo…e that it may so be: first out of these vvordes of our Sauiour, Many shall say vntounto me in that day, Lord Lord, hauehave vve not prop…cied in thy name, hauehave vve not cast out Diuels, hauehave vve not done many miracles, to vvhom J will confesse, that I neuer knevve you, depart from mee, all Math. 7.yee that vvorke iniquitie. That these men beleeued in Christ, and persvvaded themselues assuredly to be of the elect appeareth, by their confident The rich man in hell called Abraham father.calling of him, Lord, Lord, and the rest that follovveth: Yet Christ Declareth manifestly that they vvanted charity, in saying that they vvere vvorkers of iniquitie.
speaker A. W. Your proofe that they had a iustifying faith, is too slender. They called him Lord. What if they had called him Sauiour, must they needs therefore hauehave had saith? The lLuk. 16. 24.rich man in hell calles vponupon Abraham by the name of father; shall I conclude as you doe?
speaker D. B. P. 2. When the King went to see his guestes. He found there a man not attired in his wedding garment: and therefore commanded him to be cast Math. 22.into vtter darknes. This man had faith, or else he had not been admitted vntounto that table which signifieth the Sacraments: yet wanted charitie, which to be the wedding garment, beside: the euidence of the text is also prooued, where in expresse tearmes, The garments of Christs Spouse is declared to be the righteousnesse and good vvorkes of the Saintes. Apoc. 19.And that with great reason: for as S. Paul teacheth. Faith shall not remaine after this life: With what instrument then (trow you) will the 1. Cor. 13.Protestants lay hold on Christs righteousnesse?
speaker A. W. That charitie is that wedding garment, S. Hierome vponupon the same place doth witnesse, saying: That it is the fulfilling of our Lords commandements. And S. Gregor…e doth in expresse wordes define it. VVhat Hom. 38. in Euang. Can. 22. in Math. Tract. 20. in Math.(saith he) must vve vnderstand by the vvedding garment, but charitie? So doe S. Hilarie, and Origen: and S. Chrysostome vponupon that place.
Parables are no further any proofes, than the meaning of them is certainly knowne: but all your expositions of this, are at least vncertaine. The table signifieth the Sacraments. What? Baptisme too, and your other fiue? or how many, and what Sacraments? Besides, your consequence is very feeble. Was no man euer admitted to the Sacraments, that made shew of faith, when indeed he had none? Your mGlossa Ordin. ad Mat. 22ordinarie glosse expounds it of being in the Church: nChrysost. & Gregor. apud Thomam in …atena ad Mat. 22.Chrysostome of the Scriptures; which sit at the table of the Scriptures: Gregory of the Church; He commeth into the mariage (saith Gregorie) but without a wedding garment; that hath faith in the Church, but not charitie. I might in like sort examine the rest of the parable, and finde great diuersities of opinions, as in such cases there must needs be. But to the poynt. First, I say, many hypocrites are in the Church, that hauehave not so much as a perswasion of the truth of the Scripture, and so absolutely want their mariage garment. Secondly, I adde, that this man, and many other, might hauehave a generall beleefe, and yet not rest vponupon God for iustification by Christ; without which faith, there is no place for any man in heauen. Thirdly, let it be granted that charitie is the mariage garment; what get you by it, vnlesse you can prooue, that the faith this man had, was a true iustifying faith? which you can neuer possibly doe. The generall meaning of the parable seemes to be no more but this, that many men thrust into the Church, who, when the day of trial comes, will be found to hauehave no interest to the kingdome of heauen: which our Sauiours conclusion shewes, oMath. 23. 14.Many are called, but few are chosen. I denie not, that sentence shall be giuen according to workes, but that they, which want workes, hauehave faith. This is the poynt in question, and this can neuer be prooued by this parable.
speaker D. B. P. 3. The like argument is made of the foolish Virgins. Who were Math. 25.part of the Kingdome of God, and therefore had faith, which is the gate and enterance into the seruice of God. Yea in the house of God, they aspired vntounto more then ordinary perfection. Hauing professed Virginitie, Popish perfection.yet either carried away with vaine glorie, as S. Gregorie takes it. Or not giuing themselues to the workes of mercy, spirituall, and corporall, as S. Chrysostome expoundes it: briefely not continuing in their former Or charitie.charitie (for faith once had, cannot after the Protestants doctrine bee lost) were shut out of the Kingdome of heauen, albeit they presumed strongly on the assurance of their saluation, as is apparant: By their confident demaunding to bee let in, for they said, Lord, Lord, open vntounto vsus.
speaker A. W. The very like indeede, and as vncertaine as the former. pMath. 25. 1. …These Virgins were part of Gods kingdome in profession, but not in election, and therefore neuer had iustifying faith. The perfectiō you fancie, might well be attained to without true faith, especially the profession of such perfection, which is all that they had for ought that can be proued by the text.
If you vnderstood the Protestants doctrine, as well as you would seeme to doe, you would know that we hold it as vnpossible to lose Charitie, as to lose Faith; affirming that he which hath not both to the end, neuer had either. Their confident demaunding to be let in, shewes rather their desire, than their hope: and yet how many hope without true faith in Christ? Is it not generally the case of all you Papists?
speaker D. B. P. 4. Many of the princes beleeued in Christ, but did not confesse him, for Ioh. 12.they loued more the glory of men then the glory of God. What can bee more euident, then that these men had faith: when the holy Ghost saith expresly that they beleeued in Christ which is the onelyonly acte of faith? And yet were destitute of charitie, which preferreth the glory and seruice of God, before all things in this world.
speaker A. W. They might qIoh. 12. 42. 43rest vponupon him as the Messiah, and yet not to iustification: for who knowes not that the Iewes, and especially the princes or chiefe men amongst them, look… for the Messiah, as a temporall deliuerer, not as a spirituall Sauiour? Beside, they might hauehave a true iustifying faith, and louelove too, and yet be led away, in this point, by vaine glorie, or feare, as rIoh. 3. 2. & 19. 39.Nicodemus was, who came to Christ by night; and sMath. 26. 70. 71.Peter, who denied his Sauiour by swearing and cursing, and yet lost not either his faith or charitie by it, though he sinned grieuously against both faith and charitie, in that fearefull deniall.
speaker A. W. 5. This place of S. Iames. (What shall it profit my brethren if any man say that he hath faith, but hath not vvorkes: what, shall his faith be able to A. W. Cap. 2. This is your glosse, without truth.saue?) Supposeth very playnelie, that a man may hauehave faith without good workes, that is, without charitie, but that it shall auaile him nothing.
You suppose that which will neuer be prooued, that the Apostle takes works for charitie. Doe you thinke that they, against whom the Apostle writes, would grant that they were without the louelove of God? The Gnosticks were neuer so absurd. But the question was, whether a man that profest Iesus Christ to bee the Sauiour of the world, were not by this saued, how lewdly soeuer he demeaned himselfe?
speaker D. B. P. Caluin saith that the Apostle speakes of a shadow of faith, which is a bare knowledge of the articles of our creed, but not of a iustifying faith. VVithout doubt he vvas very vvell acquainted with it.Without doubt hee was little acquainted with that kinde of faith, by which Protestants be iustified: but he directly speakes of such a faith, as Abraham was iustified by: saying. That that faith did worke vvith his vvorkes, and vvas made perfect by the vvorkes. Was this but a shadow of faith?
speaker A. W. Caluin saith truly, that the Apostle speaks of a dead faith, which (we say) can iustifie no man; and of faith in profession, not in truth. The former is plaine; tIam. 2. 17.Faith if it hauehave no workes, is dead in it selfe. uVers …. …Faith without workes, is dead. The latter appeares thus: xVe…s. 14.Though a man sa… he hauehave faith. yVers. 18.Shew me thy faith by thy workes. You answere, he was little acquainted with our kinde of faith. When you can prooue he tolde you so, I will beleeue you. But you adde further: That he speakes directly of such a faith as Abraham was iustified by. True: for of such a faith these men did make profession. Therefore the Apostle shewes, that this faith of Abraham was a liuing faith, that wrought by charitie, and was acknowledged by God himselfe to be such, in regard of the workes issuing from it; such as theirs is not, if it hauehave no workes, which are the euidences of a true faith, as zVers. 26.breathing is a certaine proofe of life.
speaker D. B. P. But they reply that this faith is likened vntounto the faith of the Diuell, & therefore cannot be a iustifying faith: that followeth not; for an excellent good thing, may be like vntounto a badde in some things, as diuels in nature are not onelyonly like, but the very same as Angels bee: euen so a full Christian faith may be well likened vntounto a diuels faith, when it is naked and voyd of good works in tvvo points: First, in both there is a perfect knovvledge of all things reuealed: Secondly, this knovvledge shall not stead them anie vvhit, but onelyonly serue vntounto their greater condemnation, because that knovving the vvill of their master, they did it not. And in this respect S. Iames compareth them together: Now there are many pointes vvherein these faiths doe differ, but this one is principall. That Christians out of a goodly and deuoute affection, doe vvillinglie submitte their vnderstanding vntounto the rules of faith, beleeuing things aboue humane reason, yea such as seeme sometimes contrarie to it. But the diuell against his vvill, beleeues all that God hath reuealed: Because by his naturall capacitie he knovves that God can teach, nor testifie any vntruth.
speaker A. W. We do not say, that it is likened to the Diuels faith, but that the Apostle shevves them, how insufficiently they reason, from the beleeuing the truth of God, to iustification. For the Diuels (saith he) beleeue also; yea more then beleeue (say I) hauehave one of your preparatory works, euen feare of damnation.
speaker D. B. P. Againe, that faith may bee vvithout charitie is proued out of these vvords of the same second Chapter. Euer as the body vvithout the spirit is dead, so also faith without vvorkes is dead. Hence thus I argue: albeit the body be dead vvithout the soule: yet is it a true naturall body in it selfe, euen so faith is perfect in the kind of faith although vvithout charitie it auayle not to life euerlasting.
speaker A. W. I answered you before, out of Cardinall aCaietan. ad …ac. 2. 26.Caietan, that the Apostle speakes not of the soule, but of bforeign.breath; so that the comparison stands thus. As the▪ bodie, that breathes not, is dead: so faith, that brings not forth good works, is dead.
speaker A. W. Lastly in true reason it is manifest that faith may be vvithout charity, for they hauehave seuerall seates in the soule, one being in the vvill, and the D. B. P. Faith is in the will. Gods goodnes is the obiect of Faith.other in the vnderstanding: they hauehave distinct obiectes, faith respecting the truth of God, and charitie the goodnes of God.
Your reason is without truth. They hauehave diuers seats in the soule, and distinct obiects; therefore the one may be without the other. First, I deny the Antecedent, in respect of the former part thereof. For faith that iustifies is not in the vnderstanding, but in the will: secondly I deny your consequence altogether; because it proues no more, but only that there is no naturall necessity of their being together, in regard of each other. Our doctrine is, that they are alwaies ioyned, because the spirit, that giues a man faith to iustification, doth also giuegive him true inherent righteousnes, together with that faith in Christ.
speaker D. B. P. Neither doth faith necessarily suppose charitie, as charitie doth faith, for vve cannot louelove him of vvhom vvee neuer heard. Neither yet doth charitie naturally flovv out of faith, but by due consideration of the goodnes of God, and of his benefits & louelove towards vsus, into which good and deuoute considerations, fevv men doe enter, in comparison of them vvho are led into the broade vvay of iniquity through their inordinate passions. This according to the truth, and yet more different in the Protestants opinion: for faith laies hold on Christs righteousnes, and receiues that in. But charitie can receiue nothing in, as M. Perkins witnesseth. Pag. 85.But giues it selfe forth in all duties of the first and second table.
speaker A. W. The like answer I make to the other two points yt follow. Faith doth not (say you) necessarily suppose charity, as charitie doth faith; neither doth charity naturally flow out of faith. What then? therefore is not eueryevery man sanctified, that is iustified, I deny the consequence: he cIoh. 1. 12. Rom. 8. 9. 10. Gal. 4. 6.that beleeues in Christ, hath the spirit of Christ, and where he is, there is sanctification.
That with you adde of the impossiblity of our saluation, if I rightly vnderstand it (which I can hardly do, it is so confused) is not to the purpose, yet we may conclude, out of the former part of the discourse, as before, Faith receiues in, charitie doth not; therefore they are not alwaies together. The consequence is naught, as if vertues of diuers effects could not be giuen by the spirit, at one time, and alwaies keepe together in the soule iustified, and sanctified.
speaker D. B. P. Now Sir, if they could not applie vntounto themselues Christs righteousnes, without fulfilling all duties of the first and second table: they should neuer applie it to them, for they hould it impossible to fulfill all those duties, so that this necessarie linking of charity with faith: maketh their saluation not only very euill assured, but altogither impossible, for charitie is the fulnes of the law, which they hold impossible, and then if the assurance of their saluation, must needs be ioyned with such an impossibilitie, Rom. 12.they may assure themselues, that by that faith, they can neuer come to saluation.
speaker A. W. I will do the best I can to vnderstand and examine what you say in this discourse, wherein (me thinkes) you would perswade vsus, that this linking of faith and charity together, makes our saluation altogether impossible, because it requires of vsus the fulfilling of the law, that we may thereby, applie Christs righteousnes to our selues; which we hold to be impossible. Now, vponupon this impossibilitie, it should follow, (in your opinion) that we may assure our selues, we can neuer come to saluation by this faith. All the matter lies in this proposition, that the ioyning of these vertues exacts the fulfilling of the law, to applie Christ by, which hath no kind of truth in it: for first, the hauing of charitie doth not bind vsus to keepe the law, but enables vsus in some measure to that dutie, which we were bound to before. Secondlie, it is not the lincking of these two that doth enable vsus, but the hauing of charitie, that is of iustifying grace. Lastlie, though they come and stay together: yet hauehave they as their seuerall natures, and effects, so their seuerall ends also; faith seruing to obtaine iustification, charity to cause a holy conuersation. If I hauehave mistaken you, it is against my will…; if there be any thing else in it, that may make for you or against vsus, let me know it, and I will yeeld to it, or answere it.
speaker D. B. P. Let vsus annex vntounto these plaine authorities of holy Scripture, one euident Jt vvas needles to proue that vve deny not. Lib. 15. de Trin. cap. 17. Con. Crescen. lib. 1. cap. 29.testimonie of Antiquitie: That most incorrupti… S. Augustine saith flatly, That faith may well be vvithout charitie, but it cannot profile vsus vvithout charitie. And, That one God is vvorshipped sometimes out of the Church, but that vnskilfully, yet is it he. Also that one faith is had without charitie, and that also out of the Church, neither therfore is not faith: For there is one God, one Faith, one Baptisme, and one i…aculate Catholike Church: in which God is not serued only, but in which only, he is truly serued: neither in which alone, faith is kept …n which only, faith is kept with charitie. So that faith, and that only true faith, of which the Apostle speaketh, One God, one faith, may be, and is an many without charitie.
speaker A. W. In dAug. de Tri nit. lib. 15. c. 17.the former place alleaged, Augustine hath no such word; and if he had, the answere is easie, that he speakes not of that faith, wherby we trust in God for iustification, but of that which is onelie an acknowledgement of the truth of Scripture.
In eAug. contra Crescen. lib. 1. cap. 29.the later thus he writes. As one God is worshipped ignorantly, euen out of the Church, neither therefore is not he; so one faith is had without charity, euen out of the Church, neither therefore is not it. For there is one God, one faith, one Baptisme, one incorrupt Catholike Church, not in which alone God is worshipped, but in which alone one God is fPiè.rightly worshipped; nor in which alone one faith is held, but in which alone one faith with charity is held; nor in which alone one Baptisme is had, but in which alone one Baptisme is gSalubriter.healthfully had. In which discourse any man may see, that Austin speakes of such a faith, as beleeues the truth of Scripture. To which purpose, a little before he shewed, that the Diuels also had the same faith, or at least, beleeued the same things of Christ, that we doe in the Church. And this faith, which is indeed the same, the Apostle speakes of, may be, and is often, without charitie. And yet by your leaue, a man may reasonablie doubt, whether this assent to the Scripture, be wrought by the spirit of God, in eueryevery one that professeth religion, according to the truth of his perswasion; and be not rather in many an opinion receiued from mē, as for the most part, amongst you Papists; who rest vponupon the authoritie of men, vnderunder the name of the Church, in this very point.
speaker D. B. P. The Protestants bold asseuerations, that they cannot be parted, are great: but their proofes very slender, and scarce worth the disprouing.
speaker A. W. It becomes a Christian to be bold in matters of faith, especiallie when it is gaine-said. What our proofes are, it shall better be seene hereafter, if it please God. In the meane while, how strong yours are, set eueryevery man iudge with indifferencie.