Answer to a Popish Pamphlet, Article 1
THE FIRST ARTICLE, concerning Knowledge and Faith.
THe Proteſtants hauehave no faith nor religion.
Anſwere.
For the better vnderſtanding of this Article, we are to know, that the queſtion is not, Whether the Proteſtants hauehave any faith or Religion in their hearts, but whether they make profeſſion of any, by their doctrine.
Papist.
The Proteſtants hauehave no faith, no hope, no charitie, noA. Concluſion. repentance, no iuſtification, no Church, no Altar, no Sacrifice, no Prieſt, no religion, no Chriſt.
The reaſon is: for if they hauehave, then the world was withoutB. Propoſition. them for 1000. yeares (as they themſelues muſt needes confeſſe, videl. All that time, their Church was eclipſed) or for 1500. as we will proue by the teſtimony of all records of antiquity; as Hiſtories, Councels, monuments of ancient fathers.
Whereby it plainly appeareth, that the Synagogue ofC. Proofe of the Aſſumption. Propoſitiō the Iewes was more conſtant in continuance, and more ample for place, then the Church of Chriſt; for they hauehave had their ſynagogue viſible in diuers countries euer ſince Chriſts death and paſſion euen vntill this day.
Which is the very path to lead men into Athieſme, asD. Proofe of the Aſſumption. aIſai. 60. 11.bMat. 16. 18.cMat. 28. 20.though Chriſt were as yet not come into the world whoſe admirable promiſes are not accompliſhed, whoſe aſſiſtance hath failed in preſeruing his Church vntounto the worldes end, whoſe preſence was abſent many hundred yeares, before the conſummation; and conſequently they open the gap to all Machiuillians, who ſay that our Sauiour was one of the deceiuers of the world, promiſing ſo much concerning his Church, and performing ſo little.
Proteſtant.
How can it be truely ſaid, that the Proteſtants hauehave no A.faith, no hope, no charitie, no repentance, no iuſtification, no church, no altar, no ſacrifice, no Prieſt, no religion, no Chriſt, when as they acknowledge Ieſus Chriſt the naturall ſonne of God, and of the bleſſed Virgin Mary, to be the Redeemer of mankind, their Altar, Sacrifice, and Prieſt: when as they beleeue in him for ſaluation, both of ſoule, and body? If he meane we beleeue not theſe points truely, and ſo hauehave them not in trueth, true charitie ſhould hauehave perſwaded him to ſpeake plainely, and not to make no difference betweene Proteſtants, Mahometans, and Infidels. It is, at the beſt, rather hyperbolicall Rhetorick, then Logicall diuinitie, whereof there is promiſe, and ſhew made in this treatiſe. To this figure belongs the heaping vp of all thoſe particulars, no faith, no hope, &c. whereas the two points ſet downe in the title being proued, all the reſt muſt needs follow; yet this ſhift is not the worſt: For beſides this he mingles trueth and falſhood together; Altar, Sacrifice propitiatorie, and Priest, except Chriſt himſelfe, we profeſſe we hauehave none; but what doth Chaffe with Wheate? ſaue onelyonly that it ſerues to fill vp the meaſure, and make a ſhew, not for diſproofe, but diſgrace of our profeſſion. But let vsus ſee his proofe.
If the Proteſtants (ſaith he) hauehave any faith, hope, charitie, repentance, Church, Altar, Sacrifice, Prieſt, religion, Chriſt, then the world was without them for 1000. yeares, or rather 1500.
But the world was not without them for 1000. or 1500. yeeres.
Therefore the Proteſtants hauehave no faith, hope, charitie, &c.B.
I deny the conſequence of your propoſition; First becauſeTo the propoſitiō. the Proteſtants may hauehave ſome faith, hope, charitie, &c. Though they hauehave not the ſame that the world then had; as the Greeke and Aethiopian Churches hauehave ſome faith at this day, howſoeuer they differ both from the Proteſtants and the Papiſts in diuers points of Religion. Secondly, becauſe the Proteſtants profeſſe the ſame faith, and Religion, which the Church of Chriſt alwayes held, till it was by little and little ſuppreſt, and driuen out of ſight by Antichriſt; as it appeares (that I may name onelyonly thoſe bookes that are extant in Engliſh) by Biſhop Iewell, Doctor Fulke, Doctor Whitaker, Doctor Bilſon, Doctor Reynolds, the Lord Pleſſy, Doctor Willet, and diuers other Proteſtant diuines.
Our confeſſion makes nothing for them, becauſe if the church were eclipſed for 1000. yeares, it was in the world; elſe how could it be eclipſed? vnleſſe the Sunne and the Moone ceaſe to be in the world, when they are in the eclipſe.
The proofe they offer (and yet they doe but offer it) is inſufficient; for it followes not, that if theſe few records, we hauehave of the Eaſt and Weſt churches, make no mention of the Faith and Religion we profeſſe, then they were not at all in the world. You will ſay, ſhew vsus where they were held; nay proue you they were held no where; for we now are anſweres not replyers: and what if it could not be ſhewed? yet we know by the Articles of our Creed, that there hath beene alwayes a true church, in which (ſay we) this Religion that we now profeſſe, muſt of neceſſitie hauehave beene held▪ and with vsus it is no inconuenience to hauehave the true church hid: this it ſtands you vponupon to diſproue; which when you attempt to doe, by any particular records, you ſhall (God willing) hauehave particular anſweres; yet we are content, for auowing the ſubſtance of our doctrine, to ſtand to the records of Antiquitie, in theſe parts of the world, where we gladly, and thankfully acknowledge, that the truth of God, was (for the moſt part) faithfully preſerued, at the leaſt, for the firſt 500. yeares.
But the world (ſaith he) was not without them for 1000. or 1500. yeares.
No, nor for 1000. minutes, nor for one minute. TherforeTo the Aſſumption. your proofe in this point, might hauehave bin ſpared, eſpecially being no better, then it is.
If the world (ſaith he) was without faith for 1000, yeares, then Proofe of the Aſſumption.was the Iewes Synagogue more conſtant for continuance, and more ample for largneſſe, then the Church of Chriſt.
But the Iewes Synagogue was not more conſtant, or ample.
Therefore the world was not with out faith &c. for 1000. yeares.
If your words expreſſe your meaning in good engliſh, then in your Propoſition you compare the Church of the Iewes, which was before Chriſt, with the church of Chriſtians, ſince chriſt: If your purpoſe be (as it ſhould ſeeme by your proofe it is) to make a compariſon betwixt the Iewes Synagogue, and the Chriſtian Churches, as they hauehave beene ſince Chriſt, you ſhould hauehave ſaide in ſteede of, was, hath bene.
This conſequence proues nothing, becauſe no man canTo the propoſitiō. be ſure, that there ſhal not be aboue 1500. years from hence, to the end of the world; in which this doctrine, we now profeſſe, ſhall continue: the Iewes alſo being conuerted to our Religion; or barred of the exerciſe of their owne ſuperſtition: and if that ſhould come to paſſe, the Iewiſh Synagogue could hauehave no cauſe of boaſting. But I will not ſtriue about this conſequence. Let vsus come to the aſſumption.
But the Iewes Synagogue (ſaith he) hath not bene (namely ſince the comming of Chriſt) more ample, or conſtant.
We eaſily graunt you this aſſumption, confeſſing a perpetuallTo the Aſſumption. continuance of Chriſts Church, from the beginning of the world to the end thereof, and beleeuing that the number of them which hauehave profeſſed the truth of Chriſts Goſpell hath bene greater, then the multitude of the Iewes, ſince our ſauiours comming.
If the Iewes Synagogue (ſaith he) hath bene more conſtant Proofes of the Aſſumption.and ample, then Chriſti admirable promiſes are not accompliſhed.
I denie your conſequence▪ for neither the Prophets, nor our ſauiour Chriſt compare this baſtard Synagogue of the Iewes; with the church of chriſt, but that, which was indeed the church of God. For this, that now is, hath neither promiſe, nor allowance from God; but that church, in compariſon whereof the Lord magnifies the church of chriſt, after his comming, had many and excellent promiſes vouchſaft it by God, which yet are much inferiour to thoſe, that were promiſed, and are performed to the chriſtian church.
If the compariſon muſt be with the Church of the Iewes before Chriſt, the viſible continuance of the Iewiſh Synagogue ſince Chriſt, is alledged by you to no purpoſe. Let vsus take your propoſition in the beſt ſenſe, and anſwere ſeuerally to the 3. parts of the conſequence.
If the Iewes Synagogue (ſay you) hath bene more ample and conſtant, then Chriſts admirable promiſes are not accompliſhed.
The promiſes of God made to the church of Chriſt inD the Prophets, are either of the outward eſtate thereof, as thatTo the proofe of the Aſſumption. it ſhould be vniuerſall, for all nations not the Iewes only; that it ſhould be maintayned by Kings, Queenes &c. Or of the inward, to which we muſt referre the peace, the glory, and the continuance for euer. As for the perpetuall viſibility, and famouſneſſe in the world, there is neither mention, nor ſignification of any ſuch matter in the Prophets: and namely not in this place, vnleſſe perhaps it may be from hence concluded, that there ſhalbe more years from the firſt comming of Chriſt to his ſecond, then there were in the continuance of the Iewiſh Synagogue vnderunder the law: which (I thinke) no ſober Diuine will affirme, howſoeuer it ſhall fall out in the euent.
Then (ſaith he) Christs aſſistance hath fayled, Our Sauiour Mat. 16. 18. makes no promiſe of the continuall viſibilitie of his Church, but onelyonly promiſeth that the Diuell ſhall not preuaile againſt any true member thereof, to breake of his continuance in the ſtate of ſaluation, who hath once with Peter, by a true faith confeſt the Lord Ieſus.
Then Chriſts preſence (ſaith he) was abſent, many hundred yeares, before the finall conſummation.
There is no more promiſed Mat. 28. 20. but that our SauiourF. wilbe with them, that beleeue, and namely with his miniſters, till the end of the world, whenſoeuer, and whereſoeuer they be. But we eaſily grant a perpetuall continuance of the church, though we denie a neceſſity of viſibleneſſe. Therefore neither Atheiſts, nor Machiauillians hauehave.G. any aduantage againſt the church, by our doctrine, but by the Papiſts rather; who teach them to vnderſtand our ſauiours promiſes carnally, and falſly.