Commentary on Romans, Treatise · Chapter 9 · Dialogue 13
DIAL. XIII.
Verses 20, 21. Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, why hast thou made mee thus? Hath not the Potter power ouer the clay to make of the same lumpe, one vessell to honour and another to dishonour?
Tim.
VVHat doth this text containe?
Silas.
The reall answere of Paul to the thing obiected, to wit; cruelty in God, if for his very will sake, he should chuse some to life, and harden others. The former answere was personall, beating down the presumption of such men as would call the workes of God to account; now he satisfieth the very matter obiected.
Tim.
What is the summe of this reall answere, which Paul makes to the thing it selfe?
Silas.
Thus much, that though God shew mercy where hee will, and shew no mercy where hee will not, yet none may repine at him or accuse him of cruelty. The cause here of is, the most high and absolute power that God hath ouer his creature, to dispose of it as pleaseth him, himselfe being the supreme cause of all, and independant, all other things rather depending on his pleasure.
Tim.
In what manner or forme is this set downe by the Apostle?
Silas.
By a parable or similitude, wherein men are likened to a pot of clay, and God to a Potter. The substance whereof is thus much; that as a pot may not finde fault with the Potter (howsoeuer hee make it, because hee hath full power ouer the clay, to make what hee will with it;) so God hath absolute power ouer men to dispose of them as he liketh, either to death or life, and therefore hee cannot be charged with cruelty, though he reiect and cast off some for his meere pleasure sake. This comparison our Apostle borroweth from other places of Scripture, as namely from Esay, 45. 9. and Iere. 18. 1. 2, 3.
Tim.
Doth this comparison hold in all things, doth God & man agree in eueryevery thing, as doth the Pot and the potter?
Silas.
No, they differ in these things. First, the potter hath matter (to wit) clay prepared to his handes, God made man of nothing. Secondly, man hath vnderstanding and will, the clay hath not so much as anie motion. Thirdly, it is a greater matter to destroy a man, than a pot of clay. Similitudes (saith Chrysostom) are not of force touching all parts, for thē many absurdities would followe, it is sufficient to holde in that for which it is brought.
Tim.
In what things doth this similitude consist?
Silas.
First, as sundry pots be made out of one lumpe, so all men are made out of one masse, whether we consider men in the estate of their creation or corruption, yet the Originall & beginning of all men (as touching their bodies. is all one and the same (to wit) clay or slime. Secondly the power and right that God hath ouer men, is as great as any potter can hauehave ouer the pot, yea, and much greater without comparison. Thirdly, the pot (if it could speake) may not reason with the Potter, why was I made so and not so: neither may man reason with God, why he made him thus or thus. Lastly, as the Potter of what forme soeuer the pot be made, taketh nothing frō it, so neither doth God take any thing from man, what end soeuer he appoint him vntounto. Man was beholden to God for whatsoeuer hee is or hath, but man gaue nothing to God.
Tim.
To what scope and marke doth this similitude tend?
Silas.
Not onelyonly to checke such as repine at Gods eternall decree of election and reprobation, but to cleare this decree from all suspition of cruelty and tiranny; because as his mercy is arbitrary, so his right in, and power ouer his creatures, is absolute.
Tim.
Now tell vsus what instruction we are to learne from this latter end of the 20. verse?
Silas.
That it is not lawfull for men to contend or striue with God about-any thing, which hee decreeth before all times, or which he doth in time.
Tim.
Howe may this doctrine bee fitly gathered from this text?
Silas.
In this wise (by an argument a minori) if the pot must rest in the will of the Potter, (without questioning or expostulating why it was made in this base forme, or to such a vile vse) much more are men to be satisfied with the will of their creator without repining or reasoning against it: if it be an vnworthy and vnreasonable thing for the pot to question with his Former, much more vnmeet is it that man should question with his Maker.
Tim.
What may be the reason of this doctrine?
Silas.
First, because God himselfe being most iust, his will is the highest and most perfect rule of al righteousnes; insomuch that whatsoeuer it bee that is once knowne to bee willed of God, must without ali question and dispute bee helde for most vpright and iust, and cannot bee but a most grieuour sinne to quarrell with him, or to answer him againe.
Tim.
What vse is to be made of this first doctrine?
Silas.
First, it serueth to stop the mouthes of all such as cauill at the doctrine of Gods most free predestination, whereas God expresly faith that he sheweth mercy where hee will, and sheweth not mercy where hee will not: these wicked men contend with God, and charge him to be cruell and tyranicall, when they heare it taught out of Scripture, that for his meere will sake GOD doeth reprobate some, forgetting thēselues to be vnmatches with God, & pulling vponupon themselues worthily that woe threatned to things formed which striue with their Former. Esay 54. 9. Secondly, from hence are reprooued such as mislike any of Gods workes, as their owne estate or condition of life, or of the weather, or such like workes of God; as they which suppose and sticke not to speake that it had bin better for them that they had been made rich, or of more strēgth &c. what is this, but for the thing formed to picke quarrell or prescribe lawes to the maker. Thirdly, heere is a warning vntounto all the children of God, to holde themselues content in all things, with that which pleaseth God, doe it neuer so much exceede their reason, or crosse their affections; adoring with reuerence and humility such iudgements of his, as they are not able to conceiue the true causes; after the example of Iob, chap. 1. and of Dauid, 2. Sam. 15. 23.
Tim.
What other doctrine are we to gather out of the 21. ver?
Silas.
That the power and right that God hath ouerEsay 45 …. men (as touching their finall ends,) is absolute and vndependant,Psal. 135. 6. without any respect at all to any thing, or meriteExodus 39, 7. in man good or bad, either to their sin actuall or originall;Iob. 12, 10. or to theis holinesse, faith, and good workes. For albeitDuke 12, 5. it is most true that good workes are loued of God, andEphe. 1, 11. freely rewarded in heauen; and there are neuer any condemned in hell, but for their sinnes, either of birth (as in Infants) or of life too (as in men of yeares:) which is enough to cleare God of iniustice and cruelty, that he neuer executes any iustice vponupon his creature, but for his foregoing iniquities: yet the Apostle when hee lookes backe to the high and soueraigne cause of Gods decree touching mens finall estate: hee setteth downe none other but the absolute power and will of God, that hee may appoint of eueryevery man as hee pleaseth, for God doeth whatsoeuer hee pleaseth, both in heauen and earth.
Tim.
How may this doctrine bee gathered from this text?
Silas.
The very text giueth power to the Potter, to put vponupon the pot what forme and vse he will, with as good yea and much better reason it standeth, that the like power be ascribed vntounto God; the reason is, because there is no proportion betweene God and a Potter, who is by infinit degrees, inferiour to God. Secondly, the Potter hath the clay made to his hands, but Gods hand made all men; and therefore his right ouer men is farre greater then can bee the Potters ouer the Pot which is onelyonly formed, and not created by him. For as touching God, his right is such and so absolute, that he might hauehave made man, or not hauehave made him, hauing made him vpright, hee might hauehave brought him to nothing, as he made him of nothing; and all being corrupt in Adam he might hauehave reprobated and refused all without any wrong, nay most iustly: concerning all which, none could hauehave controuled him: sithence hee did all this not of any necessity of his nature, but out of the liberty of his will, and absolutenes of his power; which as it is vnsistable, so it is vncontroulable by flesh & bloud, yea by any creature in earth or in heauen; the greatest men are vnderunder another, God at least is aboue them, but God is supreme, and hath none aboue him.
Tim.
But what difference is then betwixt God, and such other tyr annicall rulers, as for their pleasure sake destroy their subiects, as the Muscouians, the Turkes, &c.
Silas.
Yes, there is great difference; first, these Princes made not their subiects. Secondly, their power is limited by law, and conscience or religion; they be set vp by God, and must raigne for God. Thirdly, being sinfull men their luste and desire is sinfull, whereas Gods will is pure. Lastly, tyrants respect wicked endes, to satisfie their sauadge cruelty; whereas Gods purpose in sauing or destroying, respects the praise of his … and mercy, most holy and good ends.
Tim.
Tell vsus what vse we are to make of this doctrine?
Silas.
First, it reproues such as make Gods decree of reprobation, to depend vppon Gods fort seeing sin in men.
Tim.
What reasons hauehave we against this?
Silas.
First a plaine text, verse 9. and 15. Secondly, … abridgeth the absolute will and power of God, and subiecteth his will to mens merites. Thirdly, then all mon being sinners by nature, must needs be … and cast away. Fourthly, then had there beene an cause to obiect iniustice to God: for eueryevery one will confesse it iust, to reprobate for originall sin foreseene, but without respect of vnworthines to do it, argueth iniquity.
Tim.
What other vse of this doctrine?
Silas.
It serues to teach all men patience in …, and thankfulnesse in prosperity; for seeing all which hapneth, dependeth on Gods will, it is reason to bee patient, if ought fall out not well, and thankfull to God if all be well.
Tim.
What other doctrine from this 21. verse?
Silas.
That all men are not elect, because there are vessels to dishonour. Againe, the similitude of a pot doeth warne vsus of our … and britle estate, howsoeuer strong wee soeme to be, yet we are broken asunder very quickly; euen as a pot is so one quashed, so is man as an earthen vessell; which consideration should serue to worke both humility, seeing we are so feeble and mortall; and watchfulnesse also, seeing wee know not when the pot will breake, at what houre the thiefe wil come, death being euer at our elbowes, and the time as vncertaine as the thing is certaine.