An Antilogy, Section 11

An Antilogy · Section 11

p. 247THE ANSWERE TO THE ELEVENTH Section of his defence to the Ministerie of England.

The first Inuectiue.

1 LAstly to come to the Protestant Ministrie of England, whose displeasure as I esteeme it least, so I name them last, pag. 113.

2 I defend the doctrine of all godlie and learned professors of Diuinitie, of all Popes, Fathers, Doctors, Councels,Vntruth 208. Vniuersities, Colledges, &c. since the time of Christ to Martin Luther, where so many millions of miraculouslie approued Saints hauehave liued and died, pag. 113.

3 I impugne a new, poore, lewd, licentious, and vnlearned companie of Ministers, &c. ignorant, wicked, deceitfull,Vntr. 208. the Iudasites are all these, and not Ministers. hereticall, heretikes, seducers, reprobate persons, that learned their religion of the Deuill, &c. those that died without repentance condemned in hell.

4 I impugne a priuate religion of one nation,Vntruth 209. in one onelyonly time, &c. pag. 114.

The Defensatiue.

1 THis Iudasite Frier is now become the Popes Martiall, to place eueryevery man in his ranke and order: But his authoritie reacheth onelyonly to martiall his fellow friers: And if the worst are alwayes in the last place, how commeth it to passe, that the Ignatian friers (if they hauehave their right) hauehave the last place in publike processions, as being the yongest order of the rest: I thinke this frierlie companion would hold great scorne, that his order should be thought therefore to be worst, as it is in deede, but not for that cause. Well it hath pleased his Mastship to talke with Ministers in the last place:The place maketh not the man. that is no disgrace to them, but to him, that gaue them not their due place. And here Agesilaus answere may serue, who being yet a child in the beholding of certaine playes, being set in the meanest place, sayd: It is well, I must shew, that the place doth not commend the man, but the man the place.foreign.

2 Most of the auncient professors of Diuinitie, Doctors, Councels, generall, particular, Vniuersities, Colledges, which were & liued and florished in the purer ages of the p. 248Church, do condemne popish religion, as it is now professed and practised,Answere to the third and fift section. as hath been declared before: These are but facing words and bragging speeches: As though Bish. Iewell, that reuerent father hath not long since made this challenge, that he will proue the principall articles of the Protestants faith, by the testimonies of the auncient Fathers and Doctors of the Church, that liued within 500. yeare after Christ. Bish. Cranmer also auoucheth, that the real presence (as the Church of Rome holdeth) cannot be proued by any Doctor aboue 1000. yeares after Christ.Fox pag. 1874. If this benchwhistler be ignorant of these challenges, let him vnderstand it now, and put vp his pipes: if he knew it before, it is great impudencie in him to make these brags, till they be answered. But as for your millions of Saints, I hauehave told you often, that those Saints, whom you challenge, if they be right Saints, they were not yours, as being ignorant of the grossest points of poperie. If they were wholie yours, they were no Saints: for I am sure, that heretikes and Idolaters make but course Saints, vnlesse you will hauehave the Deuill to beare the crosse. And seeing Saints do abound in the popish Church,Multitude of popish Saints to be suspected. and it is so easie a thing to be Sainted there, their Saintships may be worthilier doubted of, that grow to so many millions; whereas Christs flock is but a litle flocke, Luk. 12.32. and fewe there are, which finde the narrow way that leadeth vntounto life, Math. 7.14. That saying therefore of Agesilaus may fit them, who when as the confederates murmured that they supplied more souldiers then the Lacedemonians, commanded the crier to bid all the artificers, as potters, brasiers, smiths, carpenters, to depart; and there were few left but the Lacedemonians, who are not permitted by their law to follow any base handicraft: then he smiling, said, see how many more souldiers we hauehave sent out, then you. As there is great difference betweene coblers,foreign. tinkers, potters, and other base artisanes and right souldiers; so popish Saints differ from true Saints, and though they hauehave more in muster and number, yet the Protestants, I doubt not, hauehave more in right account and true value.

p. 2493. But who are the licentious, vnlearned company, wicked, ignorant, deceitfull, hereticall, their fellow Priests shal testifie, who thus witnesse of the Iudasites; whō they cal proud Nemrods boystrous hunters, Iesuiticall humorists, Macheuillian practisers, furious spirits, men without conscience, Manifest. fol. 25.6. fol. 26. a.cousining and conspiring companions, ambitious hypocrites, the more knaue the better lucke: and one of them they terme, an Italianated companion, a Diuell incarnate:Ibid. an other, a diuellish polititian:Fol. 25 a. the whole order they name the society of the Diuell, the schoole of Macheuilisme: an other they call a most diabolicall, Manifest. 107. a. Replie. fol. 102.a. fol. 105. a. Manifest. fol. 108. a. fol. 112.a. Manifest. fol. 97.6.vnnaturall and wicked fellow: the rest they affirme to be led with the spirite of Sathan, damned for heretikes: Bathamans blasphemous wretches, proud Pharises, the infernall Consistorie. They obiect vntounto them, their night lectures, and their auditours of women, and those faire ones for the most part, whiles their husbands missing their wiues, scratched their heads.

Now sir take your Popish liuerie of deceiptfull, hereticall, taught of the Diuell, and such like to your selfe, which your fellow Masse priests hauehave shaped you▪ being best acquainted with your manners. As for vsus the Ministers of the Gospell, we esteeme of these blasphemous words, as of Rabsakeh his railing: who though he vttered many shamefull words against the city of God, yet they were not able to cast one stone against it, to hurt it: no more shall this railing Rabsakeh, notwithstanding his wicked termes, fasten one true word vponupon Christs Ministers.

4. Our Religion, the faith of the Protestants, the Gospell of Christ, neither is in England onelyonly professed, but in Scotland, the Low countries, Heluetia, Geneua, in many cities and kingdomes beside; in some peaceably, in some with trouble and persecution. Neither hath the Gospell onelyonly flourished in these times, but eueryevery age hath had some witnesses of it: as learned Illyricus hath sufficiently proued in a large Treatise of that argument. Therefore we cannot iudge this pratler otherwise, then a vaine fellow, that, till he be answered, is bold vntruly to affirme, that the Religion of Protestants should be in one onelyonly p. 250nation, and in one onelyonly time.

Indeed, they which die among Protestants, without repentance toward God for their sinnes cannot be saued: but their faith and calling are not to be repented of. It is to be feared rather, that they which die in the popish communion, without repentance of their idolatrie cannot be saued:1. Cor. 6.1 Cor 6 For no idolaters can inherite the kingdome of God: and he that is vnderunder the kingdome of Antichrist cannot be vnderunder the kingdome of Christ. Ye promise saluation to your Disciples, as the Pharises did to their proselites,Math. 23.Matt 23 making them twofold more the children of hell: and your Masses affoord like helpe to the commers to it, as the Priests Corban did to the suiters to the Altar. We know, that out of Gods Church there is no saluation.Hieron serm. de resurrect. Duae portae sunt; porta paradisi, & porta Ecclesiae; per portam Ecclesiae intramus portam paradisi: There are two gates; one of paradise, another of the Church; by the gate of the Church we enter the gate of Paradise: this gate of the Church the Gospell only openeth, which teacheth iustification by faith alone in Christ, who is the doore and the way.

Neither is it like that the Ignatian seducers can promise saluation to others, wherein they faile themselues: as their owne fellowes hauehave censured them:Manifest. fo. 105. a. All Iesuites, except they amend their manners and reforme their order, are damned for heretickes, and thrust out of Gods Church as▪ Apostataes, foreign.Atheists, &c. to whom their credulous simple schollers might say, as Agesilaus to the Thasians that offered to make him of the number of the Gods: First, saith he, make your selues Gods, and then I will beleeue ye can make me one too.

The second Inuectiue.

HE would shew that it is more reasonable to giuegive credite to so many preceding Archbishops of Canterbury, then to the three protestant Archbishops, Cranmer, Parker, Grindall: these he doth first extenuate, and then extoll and magnifie the other.

p. 2511. For the first, he sayth,Vntr. 210. they were of three diuerse religions in substantiall points: yea of seuen or eight diuerse religions.

2. None of them burned for protestancy,Vntr. 211. quartered for denying the supremacie, a Saint for life, renowmed for learning.

3. Cranmer condemned of high treason, Vntr. 212.proued publikely periured, and to hauehave counterfeit the hands and consents of fifty Clergie men: recanted his errour, Vntr. 213.was in the case for relapse, Vntr. 214.for ignorance was hissed out of the common schooles of Oxford. p. 215.Vntr. 215.

4. The Archbishops, their prodecessors, S. Augustine, S. Laurence, Mellitus, Iustus, Honorius, &c. & others, Vntr. 216.68 in number, many most holy and learned men, miraculously approued of God. p. 126. Therefore it is more equall to credite these then the other.

The Defensatiue.

1. WE depend not for our faith vponupon any Archbishops, whether Papall or Protestants: we receiue not our faith of men, neither are pinned vponupon their sleeues for our iudgement in Religion: the Apostle hath taught vsus, that we should not hauehave the faith of our glorious Lord Iesus Christ in respect of persons: Iam. 2.1. Yet the three Protestant Bishops rehearsed, prouing their faith by the Scriptures, are more to be credited, then all their predecessors, grounding their beleefe vponupon humane traditions: Neither did they vary, as is surmised, in the substantiall and fundamental points of religion, or were therein of three diuerse, much lesse of seuen or eight sundry religions.

2. Though to be quartered for denying the supremacy, and maintaining the forraine iurisdiction of the Pope, be a condigne punishment for trayterous Papists▪ and proper vntounto such rebellious and disloyall persons, as the Iudasites and Baals Priests hauehave bene found to be: yet it is certaine that blessed Cranmer was burned for Protestancie, as were learned Ridley, godly Latimer, zealous Hooper, constant p. 252Ferrar; all Protestant Bishops. Cranmers godly life and Episcopall vertues, his sobernesse, gentlenesse, charitie, humilitie, soundnesse of doctrine, diligence in his calling, are at large set forth by the graue pen of that faithfull seruant of God maister Fox;Fox p. 1865. such as in few of his predecessors are to be found, neither his aduersaries are euer able to confound. His learning also was well knowne, as appeareth by his learned bookes: as that of the Sacrament:Fox p. 1874. which as he himselfe testified, was set foorth seuen yeares agoe then, and no man hath brought any authors against it.

3. He was acquited and pardoned of high treason, and not thereof condemned,Fox p. 1418. col. 1. as he vntruly reporteth, & stood onelyonly in the case of doctrine: he was not periured, hauing taken an oath to the Pope onelyonly vnderunder protestation, as he himselfe confesseth. And if he had sworne obedience simply to the Pope, it was an vniust oath: like vntounto Herods, and not to be kept. The law saith, Illicitum iuramentum non valet: an vnlawfull oath is of no force. And their owne Canons say: Iuramentum contra bonos mores non ligat: an oath against good manners bindeth not. So is the oath made to the Pope: it is vniust to Princes, to whom due obedience is denied; and against good manners, in that disloyaltie to the Prince is thereby maintained. The Popish Bishops rather were periured, that being sworne to the King first, tooke afterwards a contrarie oath to the Pope, as Bishop Cranmer obiecteth to Bishop Brooke;Fox p. 1575. col. 1. whereas their first oath was lawfull and iust, and therefore firmely to be holden. Those fifty Clergie mens hands were not counterfeited by Cranmer, but subscribed by themselues, for the abrogation of the Papall iurisdiction: Indeed Fisher charged Archbishop Warrham with counterfeiting of his hand in the sitting at Blacke-friers about the businesse of the kings mariage.Stow.

He recanted his errour, and executed iust reuenge vppon his right hand, that was the instrument of his rash subscription; first consuming the same in the flames of the fire. This is no more disgrace vntounto him then Peters teares p. 253and repentance for denying of his Maister: neither was he by their law in case of relapse, when he was adiudged to the fire, hauing not as yet shewed his remorse of conscience, and repentance for his vnaduised act of subscription. He was hissed indeed of the young headie schollers: but that argueth their temerity, not that reuerend fathers simplicity. The Donatists serued the Catholike Bishops after the same maner, making such a noise,Augustin. breuiat. collation. 3. that they could not go on in their defence: say also, that Augustine & the other Catholikes were therfore disgraced and put to silence.

4. Cōcerning the Popish Archbishops: 1. if nūber might preuaile, the high priests by a greater proportion exceeded our Sauiour Christ and his Apostles, and the pagan sacrificers the Christian Bishops and preachers. 2. Many of them were not very holy men: whereof some were disloyall to their princes,Fox. p. 395. A…n. 21. Ric. 2. titul. 16. as Thomas Becket to Henry the second, Robert Winchelsey to Edward the first, Thomas Arundell to Richard the second, who was by Parliament adiudged a traytor. Diuerse of them were busie, malitious, vncharitable, contentious, as Baldwine, Stephen Laughton: Richardus Magnus had great strife with the Monkes of Canterbury: Boniface, Kilwaruy with the Archbishops of Yorke, for bearing vp of their Masse in London and Kent: Iohn Peccham with Thomas Bishop of Hereford:Fox. p. 394. p. 395. such was the holinesse and meeknesse of these proud papal Archbishops. 3. For their miracles, they were meere forgeries: such as are reported of Dunstane, that he caused an Harpe to sing and play alone hanging on the wall,Fox. p. 156. col. 2. how he held the diuel by the nose with a paire of tonges, tempting him with women: such were the fained miracles of Thomas Becket, which were condemned by the great men of the land as fables: Magnates interdixerunt, ne quis martyrem Thomā nominaret, ne quis miracula eius praedicaret: the great men forbad, that no man should call Thomas a martyr, or speake of his miracles.

4. Neither were many of them such learned Clarkes:Ex Hector. Crikeladens. though some of them, I confesse, had more learning then true pietie or honestie, as Lanfranke, Anselme; p. 254yet for the rest, what were they? Was not Augustine the founder of that Sea, a great Diuine, that must needs send to Gregory for resolution in these profound questions: Whether a woman great with child may be baptized: Fox p. 117.after how many dayes the infant ought to be receiued to baptizme, and such like? And it should seeme that learning in their Archbishops was not greatly requisite: when Robert Burnell Bishop of Bath, and Thomas Cobham, two reuerend and learned men being elected were refused; and Peccham a gray Frier, and Reinald Bishop of Winchester, an ambitious man,Fox. p. 395. better acquainted with suites of law (being Chancellor) then questions of Diuinity, were appointed in their stead.

5. But as I hold Bishop Cranmer in true learning and sound Diuinity, to be equall to any his prodecessours; so in godly constancie to go before them: for he was the first and onelyonly Martyr of that Sea, that died for the truth. Elphegus the 26. Archbishop was stoned to death for denying tribute to the Danes:Fox. p. 120. Simon Sudbury was beheaded of the rebels,Stow in Richard. 2. because he gaue counsell that the king should not come at them to heare their complaints: But neither of these died in the cause of religion.

6. Neither did the truth want witnesses from among these auncient Archbishops:Wil. Malmesbury de viti…. lib. 1. Cuthbertus the 11. Archbishop, forbad all funerall exequies to be made for him after he was dead: Elfricus the 26. did write certaine Sermons against transubstantiation,Fox. p. 1139. the authenticals thereof are yet extant in the libraries of Exceter and Worcester: Simon Islip forbad vponupon paine of excommunication,Fo. 396. col. 1. that no man should abstaine from bodily labours vponupon certaine Saints dayes.Act. 14.17.Acts 14:17 Therefore euen amongst them, the Lord left not himselfe altogether foreign, without witnesse, as the Apostle sayth. Wherefore he hath gained nothing, by this mustering of his Popish Archbishops: of whō we may say, as our Sauiour of the Pharises, They are blind leaders of the blind: Math. 13.14. Hierome sayth well of such: Quòd me damnant episcopi, nō est ratio, sed conspiratio; quorum authoritas me opprimere potest, docere non potest: In that the p. 255Bishops condemne vsus, it is no reason, but treason; their authority may impeach me, but not teach me. Metellus, because he was blind,Senec. declamat. 2. was forbidden among the Romaines to exercise his Priesthood: and they had a law, that no Augurs, foreign, hauing any soare or disease, Plutarch. quaest. Rom. q. 73. foreign.should execute their office: As litle regard is to be had to these blind prelates, lame and diseased in iudgement; as in the same place it is expounded: that it is not fit for them that are corrupted and diseased in their soules, to handle Diuine things.

The third Inuectiue.

1. IN the lawes of Henry the 8. Edward the 6. and Queene Elizabeth, I will ouerthrow them.Vntr. 117.

2. If they alleadge Vniuersities, they are ouer-matched:Vntr. 118. Oxford hath had in Catholike times thirty thousand students, all euer of the same mind with vsus.

3. For other Clergie men, we hauehave had an hundred thousand more, Synodes two to one, in number two hundred to one. p. 116.

4. If they vrge Scriptures, by resorting to the Originall tongues, the Greeke and Hebrew, &c. the victory is ours.Vntr. 119. We vse more Scriptures for numbers of bookes, more for diuersitie of tongues. Our expositors of Scripture, professed students in Diuinity, &c. excellent linguists, many naturall borne Greekes and Hebrewes. Their expositors of Scripture neuer were to be compared to those:Vntr. 120. In the Parliament where their religion was decreed, there was no person present, that vnderstood either Greeke or Hebrew. p. 117.

The Defensatiue.

1. THis is as like to be so, as if I should say, that by the Popes lawes now in force at Rome, the faith of Protestants is maintained: (and yet I will shew twenty Canons amongst them, that giuegive testimonie to our faith, to one decree that he can alleadge amongst vsus, making for them: this I hauehave already performed in Synopsis throughout.) p. 256Wherefore in this so shamelesse and vnreasonable assertion, I will vouchsafe him no other answer, but say with Augustine: Crat▪ petilian. lib. 2.38.Non inuenio quomodo te refellerem, nisi vt aut iocantem irriderem, aut insanientem dolerem: I know not how else to answer you, then either as a iester to scorne you, or as a mad man to pity you.

2. The most famous Vniuersities in the world, as of Herdelberge,Tigur, Argentine. Magdobing, Wittenberge, Basile, Geneua, Vtricke, Lepden, Cambridge, Oxford, with manie more are with the Protestants. King Henry for his diuorce, had the consent of the most famous vniuersities in Europe. Oxford was not wholly yours, no not in the grossest times of popery:Fox. p. 448. for they cleared vnderunder their common seale Iohn Wickliffe and his doctrine of the suspition of heresie.

3. We confesse Papists hauehave bene and yet are more in number: so did the Pagans in multitude exceed the Christians: but the Scripture hath taught vsus, not to follow a multitude to do euill: Eccles. 23.2. Synodes both generall and prouinciall Protestants hauehave more on their side then Papists: I referre the Reader for the truth hereof to Synopsis.

4. If you would, as ye say, be tried by the originall Scriptures, the controuersie would soone be at end: but your sayings and doings agree not. Why should ye be afraid to preferre the Hebrew and Greeke text before the vulgar Latine: making this onelyonly authentike in Sermons, readings,Tidentin. sess. 4. decr. 2. disputations, as it was concluded in the Tridentine Chapter? why did they not amend their vulgar Latine according to the originall? reading still Genes. 3.15. She shall breake thine head for, he, or it: Genes. 8.4. for seuenteene, seuen and twenty: Psal. 68.13. for liue among the pots, sleepe betweene the lots: and in diuerse hundred such places they swarue from the originall. Ye vse indeed more Scriptures, for number (as all the Apocryphall workes▪ which were neuer recorded of the Church of God vnderunder the law, neither written by Prophets, or approued by Christ and his Apostles:) but not for diuersitie of tongues. For the Canonicall Scriptures are extant in the Hebrew, Greeke p. 257and Latine, the Apocripha, some in the Greeke and Latine, some in the Latine only. You hauehave litle cause to brag of your popish expositors, such as Vigilius;De primat. Rom. eccles. tom. 1. Concil. that because Peter is called Cephas, which signifieth a stone, inferreth that he was Cephas, that is, caput, the head of the Church, deriuing one from another because of the similitude of the letters: such a proper interpreter was Pope Innocent, that applyed that saying of Saint Paule [They that are in the flesh, cannot please God,] against marying.Distinct. 82.2.

Your best Linguists and most learned Interpreters, as Paguinus, Arius Montanus approue not the vulgar Latine, and do differ in iudgement therin from the Church of Rome▪ Protestants are not inferiour for the knowledge of tongues, excellent linguists, and learned interpreters, but do farre exceed the Romish Church. Witnesse hereunto Tremellius a borne Hebrew, Iunius, Mercerus, Caluin, Beza, Stephanus with others: whose fit translations, apt expositions, and most learned Commentaries do obscure all their popish scholasticall Tractates, silly allegories, and sophisticall disputes.

What knowledge in the Hebrew and Greeke the parliament men had, as it is vncertaine to guesse, so neither is it necessarie to know: sure I am, that they receiued direction from most learned men, Whitehead, Elmer, Horne, Iewell, with others; with whom none of the contrarie side in the knowledge of the tongues and studie of Diuinitie, were to be compared.

Thus we see, what are the chiefe grounds of popish religion; The multitude of professors, generall consent of Vniuersities, schooles, synodes: these are but weak grounds: a few professing the truth should be heard before a multitude in error. Iosua doth not so reason: though all the people beside shold hauehave forsakē God,Iosua. 24. v. 15Josh 24:15 yet I & my house (which were but a small company to the rest) will serue the Lord▪ Epiphanius writing to Hierome, saith: quasi multitudo peccantium scelus minuit; & non numerositate lignorū maior gehennae ignis succrescat: as though the number of sinners doth lessen the sinne; the more the wood is, the greater is the fire of hell. Seneca p. 258well saith: Ne pecorum ritu antecedentium sequamur gregem, Let vsus not be like to sheepe, still to follow those which go before. Argumentum pessimi turba est; quaeramus quid optimè factum, foreign.non quid vsitatissimum: The multitude is an argument of the worst part; let vsus enquire what is best done, not what is most in vse. Titus Flaminius said well to Philopoemenes the Captaine of the Achaians, that was furnished with a great number of souldiers, but wanted money: That he had armes and legs, but no belly. So our aduersaries contending with multitude, but bringing no truth, do shew vsus legges and armes enough; but the substance of truth, which is as the belly and bowels of religion, they hauehave not.

He breaketh off here his bitter inuectiues, and cometh after his Ignatian humour, by cunning perswasions to insinuate himselfe.

The fourth Article: his Insinuation.

HEre the Epistler seemeth thus to reason: If Catholikes be in error, then either they wilfully or ignorantly erre. 1. But neither the first:vntr. 221. seeing we vndergo many penalties and punishments for our profession: p. 218. We follow a profession so austere and rigorous.vntr. 222. p. 220. Their Religion is pleasant, and by professing it they liue in honors and delights, which hauehave enticed Protestants▪ vntr. 223.to be Mahometanes, &c. 2. Not the second: We hauehave all authorities, times and places for our defence, &c. we hauehave trauelled all countries,vntr▪ 224. studied in all Vniuersities: we want wiues, riches, honors, the impediments of true Diuinitie and studie. If Religion can be found in this world, we hauehave sought and found out all meanes: they none. p. 218.

The Repulse.

1. THey suffer not punishment for their profession, but for their practising; not for religiō, but their rebellion. Which of them hath bene put to death for his opinion, in holding transubstantiation, adoration of images, inuocation of Saints, Purgatorie, or any such like popish error? but because they submit themselues to the papall iurisdiction, p. 259and are sent hither by his authoritie to corrupt and seduce the subiects. We may say then vntounto them, as Augustine to the Donatists: Tribunus nō est persecutor vester, sed persecutor persecutoris vestri, id est, erroris vestri: The magistrate doth not persecute you, but that which persecuteth you, which is, your error.

2. Neither is poperie such an austere and rigorous life, nor their imprisonment so hard, as they complaine; seeing their leisure suffered them in Wisbich prison to contend for superioritie and highest place… at the table: they one accused another of dicing, carding, drunkennesse,Manifest. fol. 4. l…b. fornication euen in prison: these are not the fruites of an austere and rigorous life. The Priestes tell Frier Parsons, Repl. f. 72. …that if laughing will serue their turne, they can laugh as fast as he. They hauehave reported of the Ignatians, that some of them ride in coaches, hauehave their stables of chaunge of geldings, do spend after fiue hundred pounds a yeare, go richly apparelled: this seemeth to be no such rigorous and penitentiall life.

3. The honours and riches of protestants are not to be compared to the glory of the Cardinals in Rome, Bishops of Spaine, Abbots in Fraunce: but for the most part of the Protestant Ministery, I thinke they in their imprisonment and affliction (as they call it) hauehave liued in greater fulnesse and plentie, and more at hearts ease. That some Papists are turned Protestants for honor and pleasure sake, I do easily beleeue: but that Protestants hauehave become Mahometanes, he cannot shew, vnlesse they be such temporizers, and corrupt conuerts, as he speaketh of. Poperie is a fitter stocke to graffe an Atheist and Mahometane in, then protestancie: according to the common by-word, An English Italianate, a diuell incarnate.

4. Neither is austeritie of life a sufficient argument of the truth. The Pharises were more giuen to fasting then Christs disciples: among the Mahometanes there are Hermites, and bare-footed Friers: the Donatistes were very desperate, and would cast themselues downe from the hils and rockes, and breake their neckes; As Augustine saith: p. 260I would know, who first of your side did cast himselfe downe headlong: Crat. Petilian. 2.89.Valdè illud granum fertile fuit, vnde tanta seges praecipitatorum cadauerum pullulavit: sure it was a very fruitfull graine, from whence hauehave budded foorth so many precipitated carkases.

Wherefore notwithstanding any thing yet said, they may be guiltie of wilfull error, although they did (which may be done with an obstinate and peruerse mind) suffer and endure much for their profession.

5 And this lastly …erueth (if it proue any thing) to cleare the Protestants from suspition of wilfulnesse, who hauehave endured more by imprisonment, famishment, whipping, racking, tormenting, burning, and many more torments, by an hundred fold at Papistes hands onelyonly for their conscience, then the other hauehave felt for their offence against the State.

1. Wiues being chosen in the feare of God are no impediment to studie: they are helpers rather, and a means to ease the mind of Ministers from worldly busines, that they may be more fit for meditation. There was no place more apt for heauenly meditation, then Paradise; yet God thought good to make woman there. No persons more giuen to meditation then the Apostles, yet they had their wiues following of them to minister to their necessities▪ 1. Cor. 9.5. Nay rather vagrant and vnsetled lust, such as raigneth in poperie, is a distracting of the mind. And they are like to be good Diuinitie Lectures, which the Iudasites vse to reade in the nights to the auditories of faire women,Manifest. p. 97.2. while their husbands missing of them, scratch their heades where it itcheth not; as the Masse-priestes report.

2 It is not the trauelling abroad, or studying beyond the sea, and seeking meanes a farre off, that can bring a man certainely to true knowledge. Which of the Christian professours can compare with Solon, Lycurgus, Thales, Plato, Pythagoras, for long trauaile, visiting of strange countries, seeing the behauiour of many nations? yet this could not bring them to the knowledge of Christ. The Pharises did compasse sea and land, they were greater p. 261trauellers then Christ or his Apostles were at the first: it did nothing helpe them to the finding out of the truth. EueryEvery Church and countrie hauing the word of God may find at home which is the truth, aswell as by searching abroad, as Moses saith: Neither is it yet beyond the sea, Deut. c. 30.13 14.Deut 30:13that thou shouldest say, Who shall go ouer the sea for vsus and bring it vsus? but the word is neare vntounto thee. Hierome saith▪ Des…t notus tantùm in Iudaea esse Deus, in omnem terram exiuit sonus Apostolorum: God hath left to be knowne onelyonly in Iudea, the sound of the Apostles is gone foorth into all the earth. Diuinitie is as well studied at Cambridge as at Rome, at Oxford as at Paris, and for soundnesse of iudgement and integritie of truth much better without comparison. Seneca saith: Proprium agri est, nihil di… pati, Lib. 1. de Tranquil. vitae& mutationibus vt remedijs vti▪ It is the propertie of sicke persons, to endure nothing long, and to vse often chaunges as remedies▪ So this shifting of places and chaunging of countries argueth the sicknesse of the mind. Plutarch very well compareth such to hennes▪ that when they hauehave heapes of corne before them, yet do seeke in corners, and picke out of the dirt, foreign &c. Plutar. de curiosit.and scrape with their feet: So the sicke-braind students hauing much better doctrine at home, and more plentie of true knowledge, do go further and speed worse.

Now in the last place, this Epistler (belike) failing of other proofes, betaketh himselfe to his protestation.

The fift point: his Protestation.

IF they wil appeale to the Scriptures, I the poore author herof hauehave studied them all, and more then Protestants vse. Then after the profession of his reading of the Fathers of the Church, historians, Councels, schoolemen, he concludeth with this protestation: I take God and the whole Court of heauen to witnesse, before whom I must render an account of this protestatiō, &c. that the same faith & religion which I defend, is taught and confirmed by those holy Hebrewe and Greek Scriptures, Historians, Pope…, Decrees, Scholies, Expositions, Councels, Schooles and Fathers: and the profession of Protestants, condemned. p. 221.

p. 262That I should not be able to iudge, what maketh for vsus, what against vsus▪ I hope no man wil challenge me of so great ignorance. That I would willingly erre to follow a profession so austere, &c. I hope no Reader can be so partiall to iudge, &c. p. 222.

The Concertation.

THis Ignatian professor (as it seemeth) dwelled by euill neighbours, when he is forced to commend himselfe: he boasteth much of his reading and knowledge, as though he onelyonly were conuersant in authors. I doubt not but that there may be found some hundreds of ministers, and this poore author among the rest, that can truly say as much of themselues, as this bragger professeth. At this time therefore I shall need to make no further answer, thē to set a modest contestation against his proud protestation. At this time I shall hauehave vse of that saying of the wise man: Answer a foole according to his foolishnesse, lest he be wise in his owne conceipt. Ad Saluinum.Prou. 26.5. And though I feare (as Hierome saith: Vereor ne officium putetur ambitio) lest that which is but officious, should be held to be ambitious; that wherunto I am driuen of necessitie, should be deemed vanitie: yet I say with the Apostle, Wherein any man is bold, I speake as a foole, I am bold also: 2. Cor. 11.21. Like as Pericles being depressed and depraued of his enemies, was vrged modestly to commend himselfe:foreign. Are ye angrie (saith he) with me, which thinke my selfe inferiour to none, neither in the vnderstanding of things, nor in vttering what I vnderstand. So to make answer to this vaine challenger in his owne wordes, I hope it may be excused, because he hath first thereunto by his importunitie prouoked: If he will appeale to the Scriptures, I hauehave studied them all, and more then Papistes vse: if they contend to credit the Hebrew text in the old Testament, and the Greeke in the new, I hauehave studied them in those languages, and the ancient glosses and scholiaes Latine and some Greeke for their exposition: if they will stand to the report of the auncient historians, Eusebius, Ruffinus, Socrates, Sozomen, S. Hierome, S. Bernard, and others, I hauehave perused them: if they will be iudged by the decrees p. 263of the first Popes, I hauehave often with diligence considered the decrees, both all that were before the Councell of Nice and after. If they will be arbitrated by the present schooles and scholasticall reasons, I hauehave read some of them▪ If they adm…t the first foure generall Councels of Nice, Constantinople, Ephesus, Chelcedone, I hauehave seene and read them all from the first of Nice to the last of Trent; as all approued particular and prouinciall Councels, which be extant and ordinarily vsed. If they thinke there were euer true religiō among Christians, and that it was exercised in the first sixe hundred yeares, I hauehave carefully read ouer all the works of Origene, Cyprian, Ambrose, Hierome, …ugustine, Chrysostom, Damascene, Pamphilus, Eusebius, Theodoret, Ruffinus, Socrates, Sozomenus, Euagrius, Bernard, the Imperiall constitutions, with other authors, old and new; and with greater diligence then Ignatian Friers commonly vse to do, hauing (I thanke God) of mine owne writing and collations out of the foresaid Fathers and Writers, not much lesse then two reames of paper.

Yet I take God to witnesse, before whome I must render an account of this my protestation, that the same faith and religion which I defend, is taught and confirmed by those holy Hebrewes and Greeke Scriptures; and in the more substantiall points, by those Historians, Councels, Fathers that liued within 5. or 6. hundred yeares after Christ; and in many points, by them that followed after: and the profession of Papists by the same condemned.

I hauehave examined, and with diligent aduise read ouer many bookes and writings of the best learned Protestants: and not any that euer came to my hands, containeth any argument or reason, in my iudgement, worthie or able to withdraw a reasonable and indifferent mind, not blinded with pleasure, or seduced by affection, from embracing the Catholike faith of the Gospell, which I defend.

That I should not be able to iudge, what maketh for vsus▪ what against vsus: I hope no man will challenge me of so great ignorance.

Thus hauehave I answered him in his owne words; and I am p. 264perswaded much more truly: for to his protestation these exceptions may be taken:

1. What if this Ignatian nouice be not of such great reading, as here he maketh shew of? (as we cannot find by his writings) his protestation will then helpe him litle, according to the law:Cod. lib. 4. tit. 1. leg. 13. Nemini ex delicto sibi lucrum afferre permittitur: No man is suffered to gaine by a false testimonie.

2. It may also be thought, that for want of better proofs he falleth to protesting:Cod. lib. 4. tit. 1. l. 3. Diocletian. as it is prouided in the law: Inopia probationum res decidi potest per iusiurandum: where other proofes faile, the matter may be decided by oath.

3. He is conuinced of manifest falshood, in that he dareth auouch, that all the Fathers confirme his faith, and condemne the profession of the Protestants: whereas it is most notoriously euident, that for the grossest points of popery, as Transubstantiation, the sacrifice of the Masse, worshipping of images, iustification by workes, the supremacy of the Pope, prohibition of mariage, and such other, they hauehave no shew at all of any euidence from the Fathers within 500. years after Christ. And in many substantiall points they do apparantly testifie for Protestants: as Cyprian for the equalitie of Bishops, Hierome for the Canonicall Hebrew Scriptures, Origene against the carnall presence, Augustine against free-will, and election vponupon the foresight of our workes, Ambrose for iustification by faith. And these and many other such naturall points, these Fathers with others do giuegive such cleare testimonie to the truth, that it is impudencie to denie it: and yet this brasen face would beare vsus down, that they do speak only for papistrie which they neuer knew; and condemned the Euangelicall or protestants faith, which they professed. Wherfore this protestation hauing no probability of truth, but being deuised for his owne aduantage, and coyned to serue his turne, is of no great credit. They hauehave a rule in their law, that witnesses shold not praemeditatū afferre testimoniū, Caus. 4. qu. 3. c. 3.premeditate their testimony before▪ to be resolued, whatsoeuer other euidence there is, to testifie according to their owne resolutiō: so playeth this fellow, as it is in the Psalme: He hath cōceiued p. 265a mischiefe, & bringeth forth a lie, Psa. 7.14. Looke as he hath premeditate and deuised with himselfe, so he vttereth, how soeuer the matter standeth.

4. And he is too confident to imagine, that no man will thinke, but that in reading he is able to know, what maketh for them, what against thē. For a… his preiudicate affection is, so is his reading: his bleare eyes take the straite for crooked: like to him that sailing vpō the waters, thinketh the trees & banks to go with him; so he imagineth in his hasty reading, that all runneth along with him. As the Iewish Rabbines reade the Scriptures, as Celsus, & prophane the writings of Christiās; so seemeth he to hauehave read the Fathers, wresting them to serue his owne turne. I may therefore say vntounto him with Seneca: Multò satius erat te paucis authoribus tradere, Lib. 1. de tranquillit. vitae.quàm errare per multos: It had bene better for you to hauehave studied a few Authors well, then to hauehave erred in so many.

5. Lastly, it had bin far more seemely, if another man had made report of his great readings, & not himself, according to the saying of the wise man: Let another man praise thee, & not thine owne mouth; a stranger and not thine owne lips, Prou. 27.2. He is herein much like to Grunnius in Hierome: Hieron. ad Rusticum.Cùm mensa apposita librorum exposuisset struem, adducto supercilio, contractis naribus, rugata fronte, duobus digitulis concrepabat; hoc sign… ad audiēdū discipulis prouocans, tum nugas meras fundere, &c. When the table was layd, & heapes of bookes brought forth, casting vp his eyes, snor…ling with his nose, knitting his browes, knacking with his fingers, to moue attention, he poureth forth meere toyes. I say of him with Seneca: Puto multos potuisse ad sapientiam peruenire, nisi putassent se peruenisse: I thinke that many might hauehave attained to wisedome, if they had not thought they had obtained it already: So it is likely, that this resolute champion might hauehave receiued grace to acknowledge the truth, if he had not falsely perswaded himselfe, that he had found it already, remaining in errour.foreign: Lib. de sui laude.

And to conclude, he hath gained very litle by this his ostentation. But as Plutarch well sayth: That another mans dispraise followeth a mans own praise, & the end of vaine glory is no glory: so the more this boaster commendeth himselfe, the lesse his credite and reputation will be with wise men.