Reproof of Howlets Untimely Shrieking, Part 1 · Section 9

Reproof of Howlets Untimely Shrieking · Part 1 · Section 9

p. 9815 ANd as for the particulars, wee shall easily agree with Three waies … conference.them. For wee, offer all these three wayes, both iointly and seuerally: that is, either by trying out the truthe by briefe scholasticall arguments: or by continuall speeche for a certaine space to be allotted out, & the other part presently, or vponupon studie, to answere the same: or finally, by preaching before your Maiestie, or where els your Maiestie shall appoint. And for our safeties we aske nothing els, but only your Maiesties worde set downe vntounto vsus, in no ampler maner, then the Councell of Trent made the safe conduct to our aduersaries, which they notwithstanding refused to accept. But I hope they shall see, that wee will not refuse or mistrust your Maiesties worde, if we may once see it set downe by proclamation, or otherwise by letters pattents, for our safetie, but that within 80. dayes after, by the grace of God, wee shall appeare before your highnesse, with what danger soeuer to our liues otherwise for the try all of Gods truth, which we make no doubt but to be cleare on our side.

16 If our aduersaries refuse this offer, they shall shewe too muche distrust in their owne case: for it is with great labour, perill, and disaduantage on our partes, and on their sides nothing at all. I woulde they durst make but halfe the like offer, for their comming hyther on this side the Seas, it shoulde bee most thankefully taken, and they with great safetie and all gentle intreatie disputed withall, aud made to see as I presume their owne weakenesse. But seeing this is not to bee hoped for, wee relye vponupon the other: beseeching your Maiestie most humbly & instantly, that our iust demaund may be graunted, for the tryall of Gods truth most necessary for vsus all too our eternall saluation.

YEE talke vntounto vsus of three wayes of conference both ioyntly and seuerally, as yee speake, but all must be had in wordes and speeche. Flying and flowing wordes are rife, with Dratours, & Logicians, there profession requireth it: but how well soeuer you hauehave heretofore sped by words in dispute or persuasion, ye are not yet come to that value, that with Caesar yee may say: veni, vidi, vici, as though all were in your handes, and your owne. Yee talke of brief scholasticall arguments, where may a man seeke them, where shall we finde them: Your authours reasons that you make so great account of, shewe very litle skill in Logicke, what euer the matter be, and yet there seemeth to hauehave been the proper place where that cunning, if there had been any, shoulde hauehave bee shewed. We wonder in what Schoole you or he learned to frame the maimed arguments, y^e weake and sclender reasons yee set vsus downe, which leaue out necessarie proofes of thinges in controuersie, & vnnecessarily … in proouing things not in controuersie. This argueth poore skill in the art of disputing. Strengthen your weake arguments, that are set downe in this discourse whereof yee make so great account. Of his nine reasons, make vsus of all but one good, sounde, and substantiall briefe scholasticall argument, to make vsus see our owne weakenesse, &c. as you speake. It is an easie matter to conuince them y^e are your owne men alredie: But reprooue our doctrine, or prooue your owne, to our shame and confusion once. Let it be your labour (M. Howlet) to ease your frend, if you wil, that brag vsus so greatly of disputation aud scholasticall arguments: But sir, leaue out I pray you Paralogismes, leaue captious arguments, that is, … not you … Catholikes, set vsus downe counterfet principles p. 99agreeing with your name and matter, and so reason … supposittons, quite false, and … grounded: doe not when you make an argument, occupie your selfe in prouyng, that wee denie not, and passing ouer without proofe, that we denie, which I admonishe you of afore hand, because it is your Authours common maner, in his vnreasonable Reasons, set vsus downe in his discourse: howe Scholasticallie, or like a Disputer, if you knowe not: Let Aristotles Elenchs tell you: But I say, mende these faules, or bragge not of your Scholasticall arguments, which are full of faultes.

2 Your seconde way of conference, is continuall speech, wherein like a babling Orator, you wil seeme so to excell, thinking that you hauehave marueylous great vauntage of all the worlde besides, that yee dare giuegive your aduersaries leaue to answer you eyther presently, or vponupon studie: But sir, yee had not neede to staie vponupon your three places, taken out of the firste booke of Aristotles Rhetorique, wherwith, as with floures, ye decke this your Epistle dedicatorie to her Maiestie. You may be better seene in Aristotles Rhetorique, that is (as seemes) you make of it in cunning of pretie words and sentences, to delight and perswad withall, then in Gods booke, that is: in heauenly matters and thinges appertayning to conscience. But if you will looke no further of, looke at least on your foule talons, and bee not proude of a Peacocks tayle. A man woulde hauehave thought, that your dainty or quaize stomacke, shoulde not well digest long speeche, that could so euill brooke the godly Sermons made at the publike fast at Stamforde, the last Sommer: that yee lothed the length of them, onelyonly vponupon a hearsay, insomuch, that yee imagine, the continuall speech, to hauehave lasted tenne or twelue houres together. Whereas the longest Sermon then made, was (as I vnderstande) two houres and a halfe, or somewhat aboue, in an extraordinarie Exercise. You say of them with a disliking and vntruly also, that they hauehave a desire to heare themselues speake, ten or twelue houres together. These are your Rhetoricke termes, I coulde vse an other worde, as you deserue, but I forbeare. Here now, like a Declaymer, or an Orator, you woulde hauehave a continuall speech, to be allotted out, tell howe many houres together you desire to heare your selues speake, or howe long ye will declame, that the certaine space may bee considered of them, to whom it doth appertaine. In the meane space: Thus marking thinges with your chalke and cole, as they say, you allowe, and condemne as pleaseth you, sometimes as it were Chilo, or as Menelaus in Homer. The Lacedemonians short speeche, seemeth to like you: sometimes like the Ionians or Battus, you louelove to hauehave your tongue runne at randon pleasurably: You are the Newe Orators, &c. that I spake of before.

3 From Rhetorique, and Logique, you come at length to the holye exercise of religion: For the last of your three wayes, not of wryting, but of talke still, is preaching. That vsual and ordinarie exercise, is taken vp but of late, as newly begunne among you, by your newe religious Iesuites: As I take it, or else taken from the beggerly Fryers. I praye you … often, and howe vsually doe seculare Priestes vse to preache beyonde the Seas, that for beyng to bolde ouer you, I aske you nothing of the matter yee preache of, wherein you are too prophane; As you measure other men, so to measure your selues, by your owne foote, shall wee say that when you woulde dispute, vse continuall speech, or preache before her Maiestie, &c. It is for a desire you hauehave to heare your selues speake, &c A dumme masking Masse secretely saide, as your Priestes occupation, to blaspheme God in, is a meeter exercise for you & your fellowes: If you bee … & shauen, as it may be, you be but some Schoolemaister: But for preaching sir, pulpittes serue not for Orators heere nowe a dayes, neither bee her Maiesties eares, acquainted to heare blasphemies out of pulpits, nor yet inuectiues. What we hauehave to hope, or looke for from you; if you may get into pulpits, is not harde p. 100to ghesse. Your Sorbonne, or the like, is a fitter place for scoulding …. Pulpits, thankes be to God, are appointed to better, and more religious vses among vsus: which hauehave been, and are too badly prophaned, by those of your side.

But forwarde; as boasters and braggers, be not alwayes the greatest doers, when it commeth to the pushe: so …. Howlet, you shewe your selfe a very cowardly Thraso, that euen in the beginning, after so great bragges and sute for combate, before you performe any thing, you take so great care for your person and safetie, and for your fellowes also: for you will needes condition with your dread and liege Soueraigne, and gracious Prince, and ours, before you will appeare before her highnesse, you will not come hither I perceiue vponupon the gage of your heades, if yee bee vanquished, yee will not giuegive them for washing, and yet our men were brought to your disputation, as Prisoners, and knewe before what should become of thē after: What; are all your faire flattering speches. &c. come to this now; euē now you were most humbly on your knees, asking at her Maiesties hāds, disputatiō. All I perceiue is but Crocodyles teares, as the prouerbe is. You brage before of your patient obedience in doctrine and demeamour, where is that now; here you demaunde a safe conduct, before you will come into your Princes power and presence, A token of an euill conscience: What hauehave you done man; that you are so afraide of her Maiestie, that you dare not come home into your natiue Countrey, to your naturall Prince, and Mother, as yee pretende in speech, without good warrant for your safetie. This is a strange and vnwonted kinde of dealing, of good and honest subiectes, with their Soueraignes and Princes. Her Maiestie is vpright, shee will doe you no wrong, shee is compassionable, and mercifull also: you confesse it, why doe you not put your selfe into her gracious … handes; Is this a louing and dutifull childes dealing, with his naturall Mother; Is this your Catholike obedience in deede; towards our Queene and Prince, when shee commandeth you to come home; who when you list your selues, can not by any prohibition bee keept hence: Here here M. Howlet, commeth in fitly the tryall of conscience, you talked of afore. Here commeth in the place of scripture, for you to cōsider of, y^t I take you cited out of S. Iohn before: Yf our hearte condemne vsus, God is greater then our heart, and knoweth all things. Here in summe commeth in the doctrine of Obedience to Princes, for conscience sake, as to God himselfe &c. That you before said your Mother, the Catholike Church together with the Apostle, teacheth her children. If you bee a naturall child and not a bastarde, shewe your selfe nowe, and heare when you are called: For a childe honoureth Father and Mother: where is this honour, reuerence, louelove, duetie; &c. All is to seeke: you minde not to come before her Maiestie, but vponupon sure grounde once. You can prouide for one, I perceiue, to keepe your selfe out of gunne shot, you will bee a right Thraso, and set your selfe behinde rather, then bee in the front, or forewarde, when there is any danger to your person, you will abide no brunt by your will: you louelove to talke of the matter, but it shall bee a loofe, and with condition: What I say; Be not too cowardely, and too fearefull, doe somewhat like to that yee talke, Some deale answere your hie wordes, else all the worlde will crye shame on you, that so instantly craue disputation, as a Suter for it, and then will not vouchsafe to come to it, but vppon further warraunt from your Prince. Her Maiestie hath pardoned as great faultes as you hauehave committed. Bee sorie in deede for former offence, and put your selfe at least into her mercifull handes to whom you so smoothely write. I pray God I spend not woordes vponupon you in vain, I am in doubt it is no parte of your meaning, openly to come home, except you may hauehave proclamation or letters patēts or some such stay for your safetie. This is y^e testimony & terrour of an euil conscience, you must for your safety p. 101hauehave her maiesties safe conduct in as ample manner as it was offered to those of our side by the councel of Trent. A high point wherein there is great reason and wisdome sure, that the Pope and Popish Bishops beeing strangers and our mortall enemies, who not themselues only breake all faith and promise, but teach and persuade princes and all other to doe the like, with those of contrary religion, whō they call heretikes; that these men I say, should hauehave as great credit with englishmen in her maiesties dominions, as her selfe (who is our naturall and most honorable louing Princesse and Queene) shal hauehave with her english subiects? wher at can you blush. M. Howlet. y^t dare thus impudently write to our dread soueraigne. Me thinketh it should hauehave made penne, ynck, paper and al, to hauehave blushed, if there had been any blushing in them; we refused to accept that offer frō the Pope & his councell of Trent. Great reason M. Howlet & answered why, a good while since: But you will not refuse her maiesties warrant for your saftie. I am ashamed, though you be not, of your ouergrosse cōparison. Is the case alike; you say you would hauehave her maiesties onelyonly worde set downe vntounto you, in no ampler maner, then the Councell of Trent made the safe conduct to your aduersaries. Those that you call your aduersaries; to whome your Popes bull or safe conduct, as you call it, was directed by name, or with whom it had principally to deale, were protestant or Gospelling Kinges, Princes, states, or publike persons, commonly if any of that profession, rather then priuate and obscure persons, such as you and we are; who without leaue of superiours, coulde not go thither, namely out of England. It is sayde your Popes safe conducte was that the libertie of comming to that councell, pertained but to them onelyonly of our men, that would repent and return to the boosome of your churche, whereof hee that in english1. part. cap. 6. diuision. 1. list to see more, let him reade the Defence of the Apologie wil you now accept her maiesties offer in like maner6. part. cap. 8. diuision. 2. on this churches behalfe; ye say you desire it in no ampler maner than the counsel of Trent made the safe conduct to your aduersaries. Whether it were the councels safe conduct, & the Popes Legates, or the Pope of Romes himself, who summoned the councell, or which of the 3. Popes it was, vnderunder whom that councell was, Al is one, Hee was, and needes must be the iudge in the Councell, who is the aduersarie parte, and hath himselfe to answeare and yet the Lawe is, that he that is cheefe in iurisdiction, ought not to geue iudgement to or for himselfe. Lastly, sir, vppon whose safe conduct soeuer our side had come to Trent Councell, they had beene required, either to hauehave yelded when theyF. De iurisdi. omnium iudicum. had come and conformed themselues, or to hauehave been excom municated, accursed, and condemned for their labour. Tell vsus whether you list to come hether on like condition. Thus writeth Harding your owne man of going to the CouncelNon ab re quoque puta uimus esse omnes qui in hereses quas cunque lapsi sunt, & adhuc irretiti sunt ad penitenti am inuitare, cum salui conductus ampla concessione ac promissione magnae & sin gularis clemē tiae & benigni tatis, modo re deant ad cor, & sanctae Ec … catholi cae … agnoscant. Concil. …. sessio. xvii. prima sub Pio. …. of Trent. In deede (sayth he) had ye gon thither your heresies had beene confuted, your selues required to yeeld, and to conforme you, to the Catholik church, or else you had beene Anathematized, accursed & condemned. For that was the foundation and condition of the safe conduct, which was neuer willingly graunted as seemeth, but extorted by the Germanes importunitie, the fathers of … Councell hoping as they pretended their recouerie and returne to their Catholike religion; wherein they were deceiued. And this safe conduct was first graunted not by the Councell vnderunder Pope Paule the third, but vnderunder Iulius the third, his successour after many sessions and yeeres passed too, as seemeth: and repeated by the Councel vnderunder Pius the fourth many yeeres after againe. Now that the foundation and purport and meaning of this safe conduct, that. M. Howlet here mencioneth may appeare and be the better knowne to the Reader; I set downe these words following as they were propounded in the first session vnderunder Pius the fourth, immediatly before the safe conduct graunted to the Germanes in the generall congregation: Wee hauehave not thought it also to be amisse to cal to repētāce al p. 102those that are fallen into any heresies and are yet entangled therein, with a large graunt of a safe conduct and promise of great and singular clemencie and Gentlenes; so that they returne to hearte, or repent and acknowledg the power of the holy Catholike church. If you desire so greatly to be solemnely called home, Construe of this condition then by your owne rule.

Yee talke of her Maiesties woorde, and you say, you will aske onelyonly her Maiesties worde. And yet to goe further, by your leaue, you being subiectes, will see her Maiesties worde set down by Proclamatiō, y^t al y^t world may be witnesses of it: such trust you repose in her maiesties word, or letters Pattents. Her Maiesties becke might serue suche as you bee well enough in this case: ye seeme too distrustfull to be plaine meaning and dealing men. It is a harde case when her maiesties commandement cannot serue with those, that will pretende to be subiects; with whom the least signification of her highnes pleasure shoulde be enough and enough againe, without prescribing an order for her maiesty to deale by, in a mere ciuil case too, as this is, to cōmand her people to carry at home or to return home being abroad. And yet more you must appoint your selues y^t time to, of cō ming home before you will stir. Foure score dayes iust, no lesse wil serue you. You are honorable men and long a making readie, & many things to take order in, before you can set your selues into your voyage, & yet your best & surest pillers that of englishmen ye hauehave to trust in; be here in england among vsus. If neede were, and it were for your vantage three or four dayes would serue your turne to … before her maiestie. Her maiestie hath nothing else to doe, you thinke: but to attend and hearken after you and your sutes, cunningly made for your aduantage. Unlesse you caried better & more duetifull mindes, yee may tary where yee bee still. Your roome is better then your companie: When you hauehave afore hande prouided for the safetie of your persons, more then reason and honestie can aske, beeing subiectes. Then you tell vsus what danger you will put your selues into for the trial of Gods trueth, &c, Babling and vaine folly as all the rest. This is the matter, eyther you would hauehave a furder ouverture to doe more hurte then you now doe, or can doe, while you craue disputation. &c. not for to hauehave your own doubtful consciences satisfied, but to bring moe into perplexity w^t you, & to more cōfirme such as bee too obstinate alreadie in errour, or else it may be, you are weary of being beyonde the Seas and would fain come home, and after many attemptes you thinke at last you hauehave found out a way whereby you may bee honourably called home. Ah craft: But peace for shame, no more of this. Is all the labour, peril and disaduantage on your partes as ye say, on the other part nothing at all, let her maiestie the state & other here say for themselues and not you. It is enough for you to speake for your owne side, leaue the rest to bee waied by them whom it toucheth neerer then you, you are but in a dreame. The best and enowe of your side to take this matter in hād, be here in england, that there needeth no sending ouer sea for helpe to be had at englishmens handes thence, You M. Howlet and your companions for the most parte, hauehave your sires and dammes heere, of whom you suckt your poperie.

From this you come to shewe, If your offer be refused by vsus, that is: with your so great labour, perill, and disaduantage, wee shall shewe our selues too much distrustfull in our owne cause, &c. Of your perill and safetie, wee hauehave seene before: for your so great labour. Take no more paines to leese your labor I pray you, thē you need. When there is any vse thereof, it will bee called for, profered seruice, &c. If ye finde disaduantage, thanke your selues that make the match, wee hauehave not to regarde that, Yee make many offers we see, and hide you in corners when you hauehave …, or like proper fellowes betake you to your heeles, & p. 103runne away, that one cannot tell where to hauehave you, nor where to seeke you, sauing that some of you by Gods prouidence are sometime ouertaken ere yee bee aware, and taken napping as they say. You hauehave alwayes some let, or some excuse or other, why you keepe not touche when your matters goe not forwarde according to your expectation and mynde. This is playne double dealing: you cast vsus the gloue of defiance, I am not disposed to contende with you in bragging and vaunting: yet let me warne you M. Howlet, and the proudest of your fellowes, that yee take heede if you be wise: Little Dauids bagge hath a stone in it, that flung at you before you come to hande strokes, will make you grouel on the grounde, if ye abide it, were ye as1. Sam. 17.1 Sam 17 stoute as euer was great Goliah. Yee dare vsus, and would hauehave vsus come ouer the Sea, to make offer to you. It is not in our handes, neither conuenient to accept offers made by you at pleasure, nor to go ouer Sea vntounto you to make you offers. HaueHave yee not enow beyonde the Seas to dispute withall: Is all the worlde there one your side: Ywis, there be moe M. Howlet, and y^t singular men thē you well woulde there were, and then while you liue, you shalbe able to deale withall, but to your shames. Neuer crye hoo hoo, at the matter like an Owle, there will be no lacke of them I tell you, whose faces yee dare not abide, neither are yee able to stande in their handes, let it without bragge bee spoken to Gods glory: either you dissemble egregiously, orAudax Inscitia. yee knowe not the greate power and giftes of God in the learned professours of the Gospell, beyonde the Seas: but who is more bolde then blinde Bayard: As though there were not heere to be talked dayly withall, as profound learned English men of your side, as any of you that (hauing for the most part beene of late young men in Oxeforde and some in Cambridge) hauehave since fled beyonde Sea. Doth the very name and sight of Rome, and those quarters make now a daies so great Clarks: I weene not, A cocke I'perceiue on his dounghill. The not accepting of your proud bragges is no distrust in our cause, but a great pride in you, ioyned with a dastardly cowardlinesse, who putting fire into y^t house runaway (as they say) by the light, plucking your neckes out of the collor, most of all of obedience to her maiestie. No dealing with you, except you may hauehave your own offers, your owne oddes, and your owne lawes. You say that our comming ouer vntounto you is not to bee hoped: and therefore you relie vponupon disputatiō to be graunted; Which you very instantly seeme to demaund, but with your after parle & conditional indenting with her maiestie, yee seeme againe to flie touche: that I say nothing heere of the vntimely asking of disputation at her maiesties handes, after you hauehave a litle before, twise doone the same: When wee see greater cause than hytherto, or any good to be gotten by going ouer Sea, then may that voyage bee thought of, or soone enough taken in hande, of vsus English Subiectes at her Maiesties appointment. When yee hauehave ouerthrowne those of our side in the low Countries Germanie, Fraunce, &c. that they shoulde neede helpe in the cause of the Gospell, whiche will neuer bee while you liue. Then were soone enough, to make your bragges and to call vsus, to combate. In the meane while what shoulde I say: but whether you lie or relye, it is all but vponupon wordes and talke, shifting of thinges by cunning. This you hauehave Rethoricke enough to inforce: But alack where truth and matter faile, there are wordes and Rethorick little worth. You that can handle an ill cause so handsomly,Athenaeus. would I wishe to try what you can doe in a good, butforeign. that in deede needeth not so much a doe: speaking well one may soone persuade wise men, saith one, which opinion (M. Howlet) it might hauehave beseemed you to hauehave had of her maiestie at least.