Answer to Reynolds Book, Preface
AN ANSVVER TO MASTER RAINOLDS PREFACE.
WHether Maſter Rainolds were appointed by his gouernours to make this anſwere,pag 3. as he ſaith, or els of his owne accord tooke the matter in hande without commiſſion of any ſuperior authoritie, I take it to be a thing of ſmall regard, both in reſpect of himſelfe, and of his worke, and alſo of thoſe his ſuperiours, to whoſe direction he profeſſeth to hauehave committed himſelfe, and all the giftes he hath. Onelie this thing I cannot beleeue., although it be no more materiall, then the other, that he was ſo loth to take vponupon him this buiſines, as he pretendeth. For if we conſider not onelie the manner of his writing, wherein appeereth as great malice againſt the trueth of God, as ſhameles railing at Chriſts goſpell, and profeſſors thereof, as notable pride, preſumption, and hardnes of hart, as euer hath done in anie enemie heretofore; but further alſo how neceſſarie it was for him, being a Renegate, and of a Miniſter and Paſtor of a Church become ſodenlie a ſeminarie Prieſt, & therefore liuing in great ſuſpicion▪ mongſt his fellowes, to approoue by ſome publike teſtimony his vnfeigned conuerſion to their ſynagogue, we ſhall not eaſilie be perſuaded to thinke there was in the man ſuch vnwillingnes in this matter at the firſt, as he would hauehave vsus to ſuppoſe. But as vaine declamors are commonlie wont to excuſe themſelues with pretenſe of being loth to attempt ſo waightie a matter, that they maie ſeeme ſomewhat vnwilling to doe the thing, which in truth they doe moſte willinglie and ſtudiouſlie, ſo Maſter Rainolds could not deuiſe a more commodious beginning of his declamatorie preface, then a proteſtation of lothnes to write that, which anie man maie caſilie iudge he went about with all his will, induſtrie, and habilitie.
And that you maie the rather imagine he was forſooth verie lothe to take this matter in hand, he can ſhew you diuerſe reaſons, that made him ſo loth: and yet the true reaſon, that ought indeede to hauehave hindred his courſe, he toucheth not, that herein he was to ſet himſelfe againſt the knowen truth, to write againſt his conſcience in open maintenance of wicked hereſies, to fight for Antichriſt againſt the Lord, and finallie to commit the ſinne, that either in propertie of nature is the greateſt of all, or commeth neereſt vntounto it. One reaſon was, he ſaith, becauſe he ſawe manie in that ſocietie, as willing and more hable to vndertake, and diſpatch a greater matter then that. As willing Maſter Rainolds? whie? then hauehave you diſſembled before in telling vsus you were vnwilling: now by your owne confeſſion you were willing enough, but there were manie alſo in your Colledge, as willing as you. Whereof ſurelie we hauehave no doubt, that you are all moſte wilfullie bent, and earneſtlie diſpoſed to doe what harme anie of you poſſiblie can to the Church of England. As for your knowledge and habilitie to performe againſt vsus anie notable enterpriſe, we hauehave no care, we ſtand in no feare of you, we knowe what pith is in the ſtrongeſt of you. And for your ſelfe, Maſter Rainolds, I am of opinion, that you maie truelie take the garland from your owne head, and giuegive it rather to manie others of your fellowes.
Another reaſon he faineth to be,Pag. 4. for that he thought it ſome iniurie to Catholikes to diſpute againſt that ſauage and barbarous paradoxe, namelie that the Pope is Antichriſt. What iniurie could this be thought done to your Catholikes, Maſter Rainolds, to write in defenſe of your Pope, and prooue him not to be that Antichriſt, then which a greater pleaſure can no man doe for him, and for his Church, it being apparant, and ſo of manie Chriſtians beleeued, that he is indeed no other, then the verie Antichriſt himſelfe? In which reſpect perhaps your conſcience tolde you, that if you oppoſed your ſelfe againſt this trueth, therein ſhould you offer iniurie to your Pope, and Pope-catholike brethren, whome the ſame ſo ſpecially doth concerne.
You ſaie I know not what Antichriſt is,Contrae Sander. pa. 6. in principio. againſt whome I write, and that ſometime I make Antichriſt to be the wholl Catholike and vniuerſall Church, wherof the Pope is head: which to be a pregnant vntrueth, he that looketh one the place, may ſee. HaueHave I ſaied, the Pope is head of the Chatholike vniuerſall Church? or the Catholike vniuerſall Church is Antichriſt? what will you be aſhamed hereafter to write, that in the firſt entrance write thus vntruelie without ſhame? and yet hauing your ſelfe auouched ſo notorious an vntruth, you dare make mention of Lucians true hiſtorie, which booke, as may ſeeme, you hauehave not onelie read ouer with diligence and delight, but alſo tranſlated into Engliſh, & propounded vntounto your ſelfe as worthie of your imitaion. For to giuegive you that praiſe, that of due belongeth vntounto you, Lucian, if he liued, could hardlie coyne more paſſing vntruthes, or ſcoffe more kindelie at Chriſt and his goſpell, then you hauehave done.
A greater reaſon was, he ſaith, for that he abhorred to deale with heretiks,pag. 5. who paſſe al other in pride and ignorance, and of all heretikes, he maketh vsus of England to be the worſt. Indeede true it is that heretikes for the moſt part are obſtinate & paſt amendment, & therefore a great wearines & vexation of minde is it to maintaine contentions, and diſputes with them, whereof in the end ſmall profit doth redound. But this complaint of hereticall wilfulnes nothing toucheth vsus, who by Gods grace are far from al kinde of hereſie, and hold no other doctrine then that which the Prophets and Apoſtles, and Ieſus Chriſt him ſelfe hauehave taught vsus, & which is plainly contained in the bookes of canonicall ſcripture, from which if labouring to diſſwade vsus you cannot preuaile, no maruell is it. And in defending the ſame, we are content to be eſteemed of you contentious, proude, ignorant, and as you liſt. We are not ſo much in louelove of your ſociety, nor ſeeke your fauour and commendation ſo greatlie, that we will ioine in vnitie with you againſt the Lord, his trueth, and Church. If you thinke we are proud, tell vsus wherein our pride conſiſteth. If in that we will not yeald vntounto you, nor giuegive ouer maintenance of the Goſpell, pardon vsus, Maſter Rainolds: modeſtie in the Lord is an excellent vertue, but the modeſtie that betraieth the trueth of God is accurſed. Other pride (I doubt not) we are as cleare from, as your ſelfe or anie of your fellowes. And for ignorance, we may thinke it was ſome ſpice of pride in you to obiect it vntounto vsus, who for anie thing that appeereth hauehave no cauſe to brag of ſuch knowledge, or to chalenge more to your ſelfe, then you may ſafely graunt to an other. For tell vsus what learning is, wherein it conſiſteth, and howe it maie be gotten? Vnles you hauehave ſome ſpeciall meanes, and as it were ſome ſecret waie to attaine vntounto it, which others hauehave not, I ſee not why we ſhould thinke that you hauehave gotten a greater meaſure of learning and wiſdome, then others who hauehave vſed as great indeauour as your ſelfe. And what the matter ſhould be, I know not, that you are ſodenlie become ſo learned and that we hauehave loſt all learning. But were you as learned as euer anie was, or could be, your learning ſhall not be hable to hurte the cauſe, that we defend: your learning ſhall in the end deceiue you: and you that now boaſte of your knowledge, ſhall then be aſhamed of your ignorance. To knowe Chriſt out of his worde, is true knowledge, ſound learning, and perfect wiſdome.
Certaine examples you rehearſe of our ignorant aſſertions, onelie thereby to make our cauſe ſeeme odious to the ſimple: but the reaſons of our aſſertions you pretermit, which is your common ſleight, continuallie to tell your readers that ſuch and ſuch opinions we holde, and not to ſhew the maner, nor to remember or anſwere our reaſons. Wherein I deſire the reader to conſider how vntruelie Maſter Rainolds hath charged me with a wicked hereſie, that in this man he maie beholde the conſcience of a Papiſt. He ſetteth downe for one of my ſayings, that Chriſt is not begotten of the ſubſtance of his father: a ſlaunder moſte manifeſt, in a matter of greateſt moment. I hauehave not writen thus, no, I neuer thought thus. I abhorre with my hart all ſuch blaſphemy againſt the Perſon of our ſauiour Chriſt. But in the meane time what hath this ſlaunderer deſerued? Let the reader equallie iudge betweene him and me, and by triall hereof eſteeme more indifferentlie of the reſt of his malice.
Now the greateſt cauſe of all that made him ſo loth,pag. 7. was, he ſaith, becauſe he found in our doctrine no ſtaie or certentie, which yet, if it were true, ſhould hauehave miniſtred vntounto him greater will and courage, forſomuch as the doctrine that ſtandeth vponupon no certaine ſtaie is eaſilie diſprooued and ouerthrowen. But in trueth Maſter Rainolds perceiuing our doctrine to be grounded vponupon the foundation of the Prophets and Apoſtles which maie not be remooued, and knowing we will not yeald to mens doctrines and inuentions whatſoeuer, differing from the holie ſcriptures, but reſt our ſelues whollie vponupon the written word of God, I thinke he was indeede ſomewhat diſcouraged, as great cauſe was he ſhould, being ſure his engines could not preuaile againſt the ſame.
And what greater ſteadfaſtnes in religion can be required, then to holde Gods word, which we profeſſe to be the ground, whereon we build our faith? If you can ſhewe, wherein we ſwarue from it, we will not refuſe your inſtruction. But ſaie not nowe we are vnſtaied, when as you knowe we relie our ſelues whollie vponupon the worde, vnles you will denie Gods word to be a certaine rule and ſtaie of doctrine. We plant not our religion in mans iudgement & vncertentie of Traditions, in vaine ceremonies and deuiſes, as you doe, but in matters of faith and religion we depend vponupon God, whoe in the ſcriptures of the olde and new Teſtament hath deliuered to his Church one certaine, vniforme, and perfect doctrine, to which we adde nothing, from which we take nothing awaie, in which we ſettle and ground our ſelues. But let vsus heare how Maſter Rainolds can prooue, that the Proteſtants hauehave no certaine faith. For this he hath propounded to himſelfe to declare eſpeciallie in this preface. And I deſire the godlie readers to marke his proofes, which ſhallbe I truſt to their comfort, and confirmation in the truth.
Firſt he obiecteth diuerſitie of iudgement amongſt vsus,Pag. 9. concerning the Princes ſupremacie in matters Eccleſiaſticall, wherein is no ſuch difference as he pretendeth, if he liſted rightlie to vnderſtand the caſe. The title of ſupreme head of the Church hath bene miſliked by diuerſe godlie and learned men, and of right and properlie it onelie belongeth to the ſonne of God, and may not be communicated vntounto anie man whoſoeuer. And therfore neuer did our Church giuegive that title in ſuch wordes vntounto the Prince, not yet did the Prince euer chalenge the ſame, and ſo herein is no diſſenſion. For the Princes lawfull ſupreame authoritie in procuring for the Church a good and peaceable eſtate, in defending of the ſame, by maintaining Gods true religion & worſhipp againſt heretikes and ſchiſſmatikes, in remoouing of manifeſt abuſes, and diſorders, in cauſing the miniſters of the Church, according to their offices and vocations, to execute their duties faithfullie, in puniſhing them, if they be found negligent, & al this with aſſiſtance of godlie and learned Miniſters of the Church, by that abſolute and immediat commiſſion, which eueryevery ſouereigne Chriſtian Prince hath receiued from the Lord God, being not ſubiect to anie foraine power of Prieſt or potentat, this alſo all Proteſtants confeſſe, with full conſent therein, condemning the Popes Antichriſtian ſupremacie, who contrarie to Gods worde chalengeth a ſole & ſupreame gouernment ouer al Chriſtian Princes & Churches in the world. Is this now a good proofe that Proteſtants hauehave no certentie in their faith?
Secondlie,pag. 11. touching baptiſme, Maſter Rainolds thinketh he hath found ſome contradiction betweene the communion booke, which affirmeth that by baptiſme children are regenerate, and wherein the Miniſter exhorteth the people not to doubt, but Chriſt will giuegive to the Infants baptized, eternall life, and betweene the diſputation in the Tower of London the ſecond daie,… wherein the doctors teach, that al thoſe who are baptize… are the ſonnes of god. If your eies were matches, things that are but one, would not thus appeere double vntounto you. Babtiſme is the ſacrament of new birth, wherein our adoption by Chriſt is ſealed vntounto vsus, and we are made the ſonnes of God, as manie as beleeue, both ſacramentallie, and ſpirituallie: the vnbeleeuers onelie ſacramentallie. Wherefore this is not ſo to be vnderſtood, as though whoſoeuer is baptized, ſhall therefore be ſure to hauehave eternall life. For Simon Magus was baptized, and yet condemned: and ſo alſo manie moe beſides notwithſtanding their baptiſme, ſhalbe excluded from fellowſhip with the Saints in Gods kingdome. So that to be baptized proueth not neceſſarilie aſſurance and certentie of life euerlaſting in all perſons. Why then might not the Doctors be bolde to ſaie, that baptiſme of it ſelfe hath not this force to make anie the childe of God, & that in baptiſme none can be made the children of God, if they be not his children by election? For doubtles he that commeth to be baprized, vnles he be one of Gods elect, can not in baptiſme receaue the gift of adoption, which onelyonly belongeth to thoſe that are predeſtinate and elect: and election is not begone in baptiſme, but was before the foundation of the world.
Againe, betweene the communion booke and me, Master Rainolds hath noted a manifeſt difference,pag. 12. as he thinketh. The booke hath ſett downe an order of priuate baptiſme, and I finde fault with womens baptiſme. It is ſufficient for anſwere to you, that priuate baptiſme is one thing, and womens baptiſme is another. Priuate baptiſme hath bene ſometimes maintained and vſed in the Church, but womens baptiſme was neuer allowed in any tolerable ſtate thereof, neither doth the communion booke make anie mention of women, nor doth giuegive any authority to women, to miniſter baptiſme. And therfore reproouing and diſalowing of baptiſme to be done by women, I hauehave not thereby ſpoken any word againſt our communion booke. Concerning neceſſitie of baptiſme, wherein you would faſten vponupon me ſome ſuſpition of Anabaptiſme, I graunt baptiſme is neceſſary, if it may be had according to Chriſts ordinance and inſtitution, ſo that the contempt thereof is damnable: but not in ſuch ſorte neceſſarie, as that the lacke thereof without contempt ſhal bring a man into the ſtate of condemnation. If you will thruſt out of Gods kingdome all that are not baptized, you ſhall take awaie from the Lord manie of his deare children, whome yet he will not deliuer ouer to your cruell iudgement, and power of Sathan.
The communion booke appointeth not a ſacrament of cōfirmation.pag. 13. But yet there is an order for confirmation of children, which (for anie thing I know) is in all communion bookes the ſame. Shewe vsus what fault you finde with vsus for it, and anſwere ſhall be giuen you: ſure I am in reſpect hereof you hauehave no cauſe to complaine of our vncertentie in the faith.Pag. 14.
About the article of Chriſts deſcenſion into hell, I graunt, there hath bene ſome diuerſitie of iudgements, yet ſo as the trueth of that article is confeſſed of all. The manner of his deſcenſion may be doubted of by many proteſtants, but your opinion that Chriſt in ſoule deſcended into hel to fetch vp the ſoules of the faithful deceaſed before his paſſion, is generallie improoued. Caluine ſaith not, that Chriſt was damned aliue in ſoule vponupon the Croſſe, as you foully ſlaunder him; but that Chriſt, taking vponupon him ſelfe our ſinnes and puniſhments, ſuffered in minde thoſe paines of hell for a time, which we otherwiſe ſhould hauehave ſuſtained for euer. Deny this, and denie the iuſtice of God to be ſatisfied, which taketh awaie al hope form vsus of eſcaping the torments of hell, and being throughlie reconciled with the Lord.
Chriſts diuinitie acknowledged in our communion booke no proteſtant euer denied.pag. 14. As for Caluins Autotheiſme, as you fondly terme it, I hauehave anſwered if you can. And if you liſt to read more of this matter, I referre you to that which Lambertus Danaeus hath written againſt Genebrard and Iordane of Paris concerning the ſame. Our doctrine in this behalfe is no other, then hath bene the catholike doctrine of Chriſts Church euermore. In labouring of malice to blaze abroade ſome hereſy of Caluine, your ſelues are now become defenders of hereſy againſt the bleſſed Trinitie. For tell me, Maſter Rainolds, if the ſubſtance of the Godhead be the ſame in the ſonne and the father, and the ſubſtance of the father be God of it ſelfe, muſt not the Godhead of the ſonne be of it ſelfe?
But you confeſſing in words Chriſt to be God, in denying him to be God of himſelfe, take his diuinitie from him indeed For God is of himſelfe God, by propertie of his owne nature and ſubſtance: which in denying, you are proceeded as farre, and ſomewhat farther, then the wicked Archeretike Arius. I could turne you ouer to your owne ſchoolemen, and bid you to ſtriue againſt them,In Centil. concluſ. 62. Quod Chriſtus ſecundùm exiſtentiam diuinam non eſt filius Des. letting Caluine alone. Looke vponupon William Ockam a famous ſchooleman, who was not affraid to publiſh this poſition amongſt his hundred diuinitie concluſions, That Chriſt according to his diuine being is not the ſonne of God: which how he expoundeth, there maie you ſee: but if Caluine had written in ſuch termes, whoe could hauehave ſtaied the outragious cauilling of theſe men?Pag. 15. &c.
Taking of armes by ſome, and ſtanding in the field for maintenance of Gods holie religion, & ſafetie of their owne liues, Maſter Rainolds vrgeth againſt vsus grieuouſlie, which yet toucheth not the matter in hand, concerning our vnſteadfaſtnes in doctrine, but ſerueth onelie to procure enuie. Sturres and tumults for matter of Religion he rehearſeth, that hauehave bene in Germanie, in Fraunce, in Bohemia, as though it were ſufficient for their condemnation that they once reſiſted, and did not by and by admit whatſoeuer violence was offered either to Gods trueth, or to themſelues, contrarie to promiſe, to othe, to publike edicts, to lawe, whereby they were warranted to doe, as they did. More of this matter will I not anſwere, being of an other nature, and cleered long ſince from crime of rebellion, not onelie by iuſt defenſe of their doing, but alſo by the proclamations and edicts of princes themſelues.
The regiment of women as it was publikelie by writing oppugned by one or twoe,pag. 18. ſo was it publikelie defended: and the truth thereof ſince hath bene amongſt vsus generallie acknowledged. Can you obiect the priuate iudgement of ſo fewe againſt the common conſent of a wholl Church, and thereof conclude, that in our Religion we hauehave no certaine ſtaie? Then maie we in like manner, and by as good reaſon argue againſt you for a thouſand ſuch maters, wherein hath bene no ſmal diſſenſion amongſt your diuines, that the Papiſts hauehave no cettaine ground of their faith.
A Cardinall of Rome hath openlie defended and taught that the Apoſtle permitteth one wife to prieſts, and to others moe: and that pluralitie of wiues is not forbidden either by the law of god or nature. You know whome I meane, euen Cai…tane your Popes legate, and the great aduerſarie of Luther. Looke Katharine, who hath noted this amongſt his manifolde errors. And another Popes legate writ and publiſhed in printe a treatiſe in commendation of a foule ſinne: for which he was greeuoſlie puniſhed by your Pope, being preferred to a great Archbiſhoprik. Pighius ſaith, that Iuſtice in vsus is a relation, wherein he hath exceedinglie offended your friendes. Maie we now by your example hereof conclude, that this is the doctrine of your Church: that thus you beleeue generallie, or els that there is no ſtaie in your religion?
For Copes and ſuch like ornaments either approoued or reiected,pag. 19. to gather an argument of our inconſtancy in matters of faith, is too childiſh and abſurd. Our religion is not like yours, conſiſting in outward ſhewe of geſtures, garments, and behauiour; ſo that our externall ornaments maie be changed, without anie alteration or change of our doctrine
Laſtlie Maſter R. omitting certaine ſmall differences of feaſtes,Pag. 19. &c. &c. wiſheth the reader to conſider the generall changes, that hauehave bene in our Church and realme, ſince this ſchiſme (as he calleth it) firſt began. And firſt he calleth to remembrance the Acte of ſix articles eſtabliſhed in the latter daies of king Henrie the eight, which in the beginning of his ſonnes raigne was ſtraightwaies diſanulled, and the Church reformed, which reformation was ouerthrowne in Queene Maries raigne, and after renewed by her Maieſtie that now raigneth. And of all this what can Maſter Rainolds conclude againſt the vnitie and certentie of our profeſſion? what alteration hath bene in the Church of God in times paſt, we may reade not onelie in gods booke, but in Eccleſiaſticall hiſtories. Sometime religion proſpered wel, and floriſhed, eſpeciallie the Prince being godlie, and zealous to promote the ſame: ſometime againe ſuperſtition, hereſie, idolatrie mightelie preuailed, the Prince being an idolater or heretike. Yet notwithſtanding the truth of gods word & Religion remained one and ſtedfaſt, howſoeuer the outward ſtate of the Church or common wealth was diuerſlie changed. And if at the firſt when the Lord began to worke ſome reformamation in this Church, perfection in euerie point was not foorthwith attained and eſtabliſhed, no maruel is it, conſidering both the greatnes of the worke, and the malice of manifolde enemies that withſtoode the ſame. Yea if in our communion booke alteration hath bene, according as to the Church ſeemed moſte conuenient, yet that was not in ſubſtance of Doctrine, but in matters of ceremonie, neither can you charge vsus more for changing our communion booke, then we can you for changing and reforming your Miſſales, your Portaſſes, your Breuiaries, & a number ſuch other bookes, euen of late yeares, in dailie and publike vſe of ſeruice amongſt you As for Anabaptiſtes, Atheiſtes, Puritanes, the familie of louelove, our Church and Religion vtterly condemneth to the pit of hell: and if there be ſuch amongſt vsus ſecretlie, ſo hauehave there alwaies bene heretikes & wicked perſons in the Church, and in reſpect of them our Religion is no more to be accuſed, then the good corne may iuſtlie be condemned, becauſe together with it manie tares and weeds ſpring vp, and cannot be auoided.
Further Maſter Rainolds ſaith,pag. 22. if he ſhould note the difference betweene our Proteſtants and thoſe of other nations, he ſhould neuer make an end. But let him note, what him liſt, and make an end when he pleaſe; greater difference ſhal he not finde amongſt the true profeſſors of the Goſpell, and Churches reformed, then may be amongſt the children of God. When ſuch bitter diſſenſion was betweene the Eaſt and weſt Churches, about the daie of Paſſeouer, and the ſame continued ſo manie yeares with great offenſe & alienation among the faithfull, yet they ceaſed not for all that to be ſtill the Churches of Chriſt. Neither is it euer to be hoped for, that ſuch perfect concord ſhall be among the profeſſors of Chriſts religion, that they ſhall all agree moſte iointlie together in the trueth, or in euerie particular point thereof. Your vnity although it be not ſo intire and generall, as you would hauehave it thought, yet if it proceeded of knowledge of the trueth, and faithfull ſubmiſſion with hartie obedience to the ſame, it deſerued great commendation: but ſpringing from ſuch fountaines, as it doth, of brutiſh ignorance, and feare in the moſte, of vaine ambition, worldlie pleaſures, and filthie couetouſnes in the chiefeſt, though it be through corruption of mans nature mighty, yet the cauſes being marked, it appeereth to be but carnall, tyrannicall, and diueliſh. For this moſte wicked perſuaſion being once imprinted in mens harts by the ſubteltie of Sathan, that all men muſt obey the Pope, whatſoeuer he teach and commaund, without examination, or reſiſtance, vponupon paine of eternall damnation, an eaſie matter is it vponupon this foundation to raiſe vp and maintaine any vnitie whatſoeuer. And although this worldlie prouiſion for keeping of vnitie be not amongſt vsus, yet through Gods grace and bleſſing al Churches reformed agree ſoundlie in all articles of faith, that are ſubſtantiall and neceſſarie to ſaluation, and ſhall ſo doe vntounto the ende.pag. 25.
The grounds and heads of diſputation receiued among the Romiſh Catholikes, Maſter Rainolds reckeneth many, and firſt the ſcriptures, wherein he doth not ſo much honour to them for placing them in the firſt roome, as iniury and diſgrace in ioyning with them anie other. For as they are grounds of all true doctrine, ſo are they onelie grounds; and as in matter of faith arguments ought principallie to be drawne from them, ſo ſuch arguments onelie conclude neceſſarilie, as euen your owne Thomas of Aquine doth directlie confeſſe.Thom. 1. part. 1. qu. artic. 8. ad. 2. Traditions of the Apoſtles are but deuiſed & forged things, which you make your ſecond heade, and therefore no ſtaie for a man to ſettle his conſcience vponupon. For, tell me if you can, which be the Apoſtles traditions, how many, and where they may be found. If you cannot ſatisfie this demaunde, as you cannot indeede, how may you then make any reckoning of that, whereof you hauehave no certaine knowledge? how can you without falling builde your faith vponupon fantaſies, ſuch as they are? The Apoſtles doctrine we hauehave in writing: other traditions of the Apoſtles we receiue none for our beliefe.
Concerning the catholike Church, which is your third head, we reuerence and louelove it as the ſpouſe of Chriſt: but we know that her duetie is, to hearken onelie to the voice of Chriſt her husband, and that ſhe hath no authoritie to adde ſo much as one iotte to his worde, or anie waies to diſſent from it. And further we know, that your Romiſh ſynagogue is not that Catholike Church of Chriſt, whereof we ſpeake.
For generall councels and Doctors, which are other twoe of your principall heades, we eſteeme and regarde them in their place: we thanke God for them, we reade, allowe, and commend them, ſo far forth, as they agree with Gods word. If you thinke they neuer diſagree from it, your owne maſters will correct you, and tell you an other tale. Are not theſe then goodly groundes and heads of faith, that euen your ſelues are enforced oftentimes to diſauow? As for your ſupreme paſtor of the Church, we know him not by that name, if you meane anie other but Ieſus Chriſt alone. For who ſo els taketh that honour and office vponupon him to be the ſupreme paſtor of the Church, he is a theefe, an Apoſtata, an Antichriſt: make as great accompt of him, as you liſt. And where you ſaie we care for none of theſe groundes, you ſpeake vntruelie, your ſelues indeede caring for none but onelie the laſt, which is in ſtead of all the reſt. The determination of your ſupreme paſtor, that is your ſcripture, your Apoſtolicall Tradition, your Church, your councels, your Doctors, your Faith, your ſaluation, your onelie ſtaie in this world, and in the world to come.
Scriptures you prooue we deny,pag. 26. becauſe we admitte not the authoritie of Tobias for inuocation and helpe of Angels, nor of Eccleſiaſticus for free will. But you muſt firſt of all prooue, which neuer ſhall you be hable to prooue, that Tobias and Eccleſiaſticus be canonicall ſcripture, before you can inferre that we denie the ſcripture. Theſe bookes are not the holie Canonicall ſcriptures, as we hauehave prooued againſt you by moſt inuincible and manifeſt demonſtration, by councels, Fathers, Doctors, your owne Cardinals, and ſchoolemen: and we reioyce with all our harts, that ſuch popiſh doctrine hath no better ſcripture for proofe thereof, then Apocryphall, which becauſe it hath a counterfayte ſtampe, is no currant monie among the Lords people.
And for Traditions, vnles you can approoue them by authoritie of Apoſtolicall ſcripture, you hauehave our anſwere: we regarde them nothing, we know not from whence they came, we will not giuegive ouer the certaine ſcriptures, for ſuch obſcure and moſt vncertaine traditions.
For Councels, true it is, the argument holdeth not in this forme: ſuch a Councell decreed ſoe, and therefore ſo muſt we beleeue. Sett this principle downe for certaine and perpetuall in diuinitie, and we ſhall hauehave ſtrange beliefes enow, yea ſcarſely ſhall we retaine any one true beliefe. Two far…ous generall Councels hauehave beene held in Nice, the firſt, and the ſecond. In the firſt is condemned the Popes ſupremacie,Can. …. in the ſecond is eſtabliſhed the Idolatrous worſhip of Images. The firſt beliefe you will not alow, the ſecond we deteſt. Let Councells therefore be eſteemed as they deſerue: let their decrees be examined by Gods word: and if they agree, let them be receaued for that agreement: if not, let them be reiected for the contrarie.
The ſame iudgement hauehave we of auncient fathers.pag. 27. Learned and Godlie men we graunt they were, but yet men, hauing their infirmities and imperfections. Their learning, their zeale, their ages were noe priuiledge vntounto them, but that notwithſtanding they might be deceiued in their writings and expoſitions of ſcripture. And take you this, Maſter Rainolds, for a ſure concluſion, that in the ſayings of thoſe, who are all of them ſubiect to errour, there is no ſtable and ſteadie ground to build our faith vponupon, leſt perhaps we build vponupon error, in ſteade of trueth, vponupon the ſand, and not vponupon the rocke. So that without tryall and examination no ſentence of a father, nor of all fathers may ſafelie be receiued.
Neither are we ſo addicted to the late writers,pag. 28. as to beleeue whatſoeuer they hauehave ſaied: we are no more partiall vntounto them in this behalfe, then we are vntounto the auncient fathers: our religion and faith hangeth not vponupon the ſayings of men, be they olde or younge, but onelyonly vponupon the canonicall ſcriptures of God. And as for Auguſtine, Ierome, and Cyprian, they are as much ours in the moſte and weightieſt controuerſies, as Luther, Caluine, or Melancthon. And if they, or any other be againſt vsus, ſo longe as ſcripture is for vsus, our cauſe is good, and we will not be aſhamed thereof.
And therefore moſte falſe is it, that you ſay our Diuinitie reſteth vponupon theſe fathers, pag. 29. &c.whome you ſo ſcornfullie compare with the olde fathers. We vſe not to alledge for proofe of any doctrine, Thus ſaith Caluine, Bucer, or other: but thus ſaith the Lord, thus ſaith the Prophet, thus ſaith the Apoſtle, thus the Euangeliſt, thus is it written in the ſcriptures, thus we reade in ſome booke of the olde or new Teſtament. Notwithſtanding we vſe alſo to reade the fathers both olde and new, as much as your ſelues, and oftentimes we rehearſe their ſentences and expoſitions, not as proofes in doctrine of them ſelues, but to ſtoppe your mouthes, that crie ſo lowde in the eares of the ſimple, that all the fathers are againſt vsus, it being moſte true, that they are notablie and generallie (as I hauehave ſaide) for vsus, You talke in this place, as one that would ſaie ſomething, and telleth a long tale, but in the end forgetteth of what he meant to ſpeake. Of all that you ſaie, make your concluſion, and then ſhall appeere, how emptie and barren a declamor you are.
Now, ſaith Maſter Rainolds, if theſe ſerue not,pag. 31. a man woulde thinke their martyrs testimonie ſhould be irrefragable. And thinke you then the argument to be ſo ſure and neceſſarie, that is drawen from authoritie of a martyr? will you graunt this reaſon to be inuincible, A marttr hath ſaide it, therefore it is true? what ſay you then of Cyprian the martyr, of Iustinus the martyr, of Irenaeus the martyr, who notwitſtanding their bleſſed martyrdome, are knowne to hauehave maintained opinions againſt the trueth? If martyrs then may hauehave their errours, how may the teſtimonie of martyrs be alwaies irrefragable? you ſee (good readers) how pithie a diſputer this man doth ſhewe him-ſelfe to be. If his looſe rhetorike helped him not a litle better, then his logike, he were in verie weake and miſerable caſe.
Laſtlie concerning wholl Churches reformed,pag. 32. what can you, Maſter Rainolds, conclude againſt vsus? In matter of diſcipline greate difference heretofore hath bene amongſt the Churches Eaſt and Weſt, Greeke and Latine. If then ſome ſuch be in our reformed Churches, can you thereof truelie gather, that therefore they are not the Churches of Chriſt? Tell vsus what you meane, if you hauehave any trueth or certaintie in your meaning.
Next Maſter R. reckeneth vp ſundrie Popes, that are amongſt the Proteſtants in ſtead of one true Pope:pag. 33. which I know not whereto it ſerueth, but onelie to ſhewe that the proteſtants hauehave ſo great deteſtation of the Pope and his tyrannie, that they cannot endure in anie profeſſour of the Goſpell, anie ſmall ſhadowe of ſuch Lordelines, as the Pope vſurpeth ouer the Church. Your true Pope, whereof you ſpeake, is as much as a true Antichriſt, of whome the ſcriptures hauehave foretolde. The name, the perſon, the authoritie all Proteſtants abhorre, and accurſe to the prince of darknes, from whence it came.
Againe he is in hand with generall Councels, and ſaith it is impoſſible,pag. 34. that euer we ſhould once imagine how anie Councell amongeſt vsus ſhould be gathered. His methode is according to his matter, confuſed, and diſordered, leaping and iumping from one pointe to another, like a wilde bucke vponupon the mountaines. Although we hauehave not a Pope, as you hauehave, yet by Gods grace generall Councels maie wee hauehave, if Chriſtian princes that profeſſe the goſpell will iointlie take vponupon them the care thereof. And generall Councels hauehave bene aſſembled and helde many hundred yeares before your Pope by ſuch a name was euer knowne or heard of in the world, and ſo may they againe both Chriſtianlie and generallie be held, allthough your Pope with all his proude cleargie were returned from whence they came. That hitherto no ſuch Chriſtian Councels hauehave bene gathered, it maie be imputed to the generall troubles in all Chriſtian countries, and to the aduerſaries, that hauehave bene raiſed vp by your Pope and his Cardinall ſatrapes, to hinder, as much as in them laie, all meanes, whereby a Chriſtian generall Councell might be gathered. Howbeit if a generall Councell cannot be procured, to be celebrated with quietnes, there is no doubt notwithſtanding, but that the Lordes cauſe maie without it daylie more and more preuaile, as it hath done heretofore in times moſte perſecutions.
To the ſection that followeth, containing onelie a recapitulation of theſe former diſcourſes,pag. 34. &c. I hauehave no nede to make any further anſwere.
Your complainte againſt vsus, for refuſing all grounds of diſputation,pag. 38. how vaine and vntrue it is, hath bene ſhewed. The onelie true and certaine grounde of religion and of all diſputation about the ſame, which is the authoritie of God reuealed vntounto vsus in his holie worde, we imbrace, we holde, we reſt vponupon it: which forſomuch as you hauehave fullie tried to be againſt you, ſo that you cannot thereby approoue one article of your popiſh faith, nor diſprooue anie doctrine that we maintaine againſt you, therfore deſperation driueth you indeede to refuſe this grounde as inſufficient, and to ſeeke other grounds, of which we hauehave noe warrant in Gods worde. And although it pleaſe you for this cauſe to raile at vsus, and ſaie we are worſe then the heretikes of olde time, yet we know that rhe auncient godlie fathers in confuting all heretikes vſed onelie arguments drawen out of the ſcriptures, and plainelie taught that by no other weapons an heretike can be put to flight. I knowe they charge them oftentimes with the iudgement of Churches, ſucceſſions of Biſhops, determination of Councels, name of Catholikes, not as though this were a neceſſarie conuiction of it ſelfe, but thereby the rather to induce them, to beleeue the doctrine to be true, which they ſee from the firſt planting thereof in the Church to hauehave remained. Your caſe is nothing like, ſeeing you hauehave onelyonly the bare title without the thing, and as it were the emptie casket without the treaſure.
But for ſo much as you accuſe …s for caſting awaie the grounds of Diuinitie, I deſire euerie Chriſtian man to weigh with himſelfe, what ground it is, wheron al your religion and Church ſtandeth. Firſt the ſcripture muſt not be ſcripture in any other ſenſe, then as the Pope will expound it: ſo that the ſcripture being the meaning of the ſcripture, and the meaning of the ſcripture being the Popes expoſition, hereof it followeth that the ſcripture is nothing els but the Popes interpretation. So likewiſe in Traditions, Doctors, Councels, Churches, if any thing diſſent from the Popes vnderſtanding and determination, it is reiected, aboliſhed, condemned, and finally all faith, all religion, all Diuinitie of Papiſts is onelie the Popes ſacred will and pleaſure. Now then this being their owne certaine reſolution, I would gladlie be enformed, how by the ſame a man may be aſſured of any faith, it being further alſo agreed and confeſſed among themſelues, that the Pope maie fall into hereſie. Then who ſeeth not that their ground being ſhaken, & their ſtaie failing, all that is builded and vpholden thereon is clean ouerthrowne? If they ſaie, the Pope falling into hereſy, forthwith ceaſeth to be a Pope, I demaund whoe they are that muſt iudge the Popes cauſe, and giuegive ſentence againſt him? And if the Pope be obſtinate, and teaching hereſie, and therewith infecting the world, will notwithſtanding ſtoutly ſtand in defenſe of his doctrine, and will keepe his chaire, what ſhift hauehave you then, or what can you doe againſt him, ſeing he is your Pope, your head, your author and founder of all your faith? Thus a man going with you along, and comming to the end of all, findeth no ſtaie, but muſt wander ſtill, as in an endles Labyrinth, wherein he ſhall at laſt languiſh and periſh euerlaſtingly.
That you wiſh we would be content to yealde to the verie ſcriptures themſelues,pag. 40. doubt you not, Maſter Rainolds, thereof, but we are moſt redie to yealde vntounto them: if ye would be as willing, the controuerſy might hauehave thereby, and by other good meanes, an end. But your conſcience telleth you, ſcripture will not ſerue you, and therfore in a word you deny the wholl bodie of the ſcriptures. Thinke not (good reader) that herein I hauehave ſpoken raſhly without reaſon, I know what I ſpeake, and thy ſelfe conſidering the matter aduiſedlie wilt ſaie as much. For in making an olde rotten tranſlation, (as I may boldlie call it, being compared with the originall word of ſcripture, although otherwiſe I giuegive to it that reuerence, that the antiquity therof deſerueth) full of wants, faultes, errors, ouerſightes, imperfections, and corruptions of all ſortes, as in this booke hereafter (god willing) thou ſhalt perceaue, to be the authenticall word of God, and denying the originall faithfull text, which Moſes, the Prophets, the Apoſtles, the Euangeliſts did write, to be the worde of God, what do they els but plainlie as it were with one daſh of a penne cancel the wholl ſciptures? Herein maieſt thou ſee what conſcience theſe men make of ſcripture, that do caſt awaie the verie authenticall text and bookes of holie ſcripture, preferring before them a homelie latine tranſlation, which, beſides it is ſuch as I hauehave ſaid, no man can tell from whence, or from whome it came. And this forſooth is their ſcripture, coined and canonized of late in the councell of Trente, and neuer before: and other ſcripture hauehave they none.
Hitherto Maſter Rainolds treatiſe hath bene generall of the Engliſh Proteſtants,pag. 41. &c. now he craueth leaue of the reader to deſcend and applie the ſame to his aduerſarie, whoſe booke he is to examine: and firſt he noteth the faſhion of Heretikes alwaies to hauehave bene to inuade the chiefe paſtours of the Church. What heretikes hauehave vſed commonlie to doe appertaineth nothing vntounto vsus: we could no otherwiſe doe, but when we eſpied the wolfe deuouring the flocke, and Antichriſt ſitting in the temple of God, giuegive warning thereof to all, crie out againſt him, and call him by his proper name, the verie Antichriſt of whom Saint Paul to the Theſſalonians, and the ſcriptures in other places doe mean. This hath bene the iudgement of al reformed Churches from the beginning, and wilbe to the ending of the world. And although Sanders hath taken great paines in this behalfe to prooue their Pope to be no Antichriſt (for then all were vtterlie loſt) yet how little he hath by his demonſtrations preuailed, the godlie reader maie eaſilie iudge by the anſwere ſet forth, which Maſter Rainolds becauſe he cannot orderlie and thorowlie diſprooue, carpeth at ſome partes thereof in the reſidue of this his preface. But being appointed, as he ſaith, to anſwere the booke, it had bene more for his commendation and credite of the cauſe, to hauehave perticularlie refuted my wholl replie, then thus to pike certaine parcels at his owne choiſe, and to pretermit all the reſt. Yet let vsus ſee what he can ſaie, whereby it ſhall appeere, how litle he had to ſaie.
In the firſt demonſtration of all,Pag. 44. &c. D. Saunders endeuoureth to proue, that the great Antichriſt muſt be one ſingular man (for proofe whereof he allegeth ſundrie reaſons, which are ſeuerallie anſwered) and laſtlie, as the chiefeſt, that all the fathers hauehave ſpoken of Antichriſt, as of one man. Doctor Saunders, and parcel of my anſwere are here by Maſter Rainolds repeated, but the principall ground thereof is omitted. Whereas it is by Saunders affirmed, that all the fathers hauehave ſpoken of Antichriſt, as of one onelie man: although this be vntrue, and can neuer by Saunders or anie Papiſt be prooued; and although further it is one thing to ſpeake of Antichriſt, as of one man, and plainlie to ſaie, that Antichriſt is one man: yet ſuppoſing this were true, that Saunders meaneth, notwithſtanding his demonſtration holdeth not, being taken from the authoritie of men, from whome no demonſtration in diuinitie can be drawen. This is the ſumme of this anſwere which Maſter Rainolds accuſeth of Antichriſtian arrogancie, ſeing the fathers write according to the apoſtolicall faith and tradition, as he ſaith. But how may it appeere, Maſter Rainolds, that the Apoſtles taught or deliuered ſuch a faith vntounto the Churches concerning Antichriſt? if this faith be contained in their writings, tell vsus in what booke, in what place, in what wordes. If in ſecret tradition, we admit no profe (as you know) from ſuch vncertaine and blinde traditions. And if you your ſelues oftentimes doe diſſent from the fathers, giuegive vsus alſo the ſame libertie of diſſenting from them vponupon as good ground and iuſt cauſes as you hauehave anie. The fathers ſpeake diuerſe times not according to the tradition & faith Apoſtolicall, but according to the common receiued opinion, them ſelues in plain termes confeſſing that they ſpeake but coniecturally: & if there was not in that age ſo full and cleare knowledge of Antichriſt, as at this daie, no maruell maie it ſeeme to wiſe men, for ſo much as nowe Antichriſt is not onelie borne and bredde, but growne to a ſtrong man, and perfectlie diſcerned and acknowledged, by all marks eſſentiall to be Antichriſt. They forſawe him, we ſee him: they knew he ſhould come, we know he is come: they feared him, we hauehave felt him: they geaſſed at him, we can point him out with our finger: finallie they might be deceiued, but wee cannot, vnles we will ſtop our eares, and cloſe our eies, and ſuffer our ſelues willinglie to be abuſed.pag. 46. &c.
In the ſecond demonſtration Doctor Saunders commendeth the Church of Rome by teſtimonies of writers, auncient and later; thereby to make vsus beleeue, that ſeing it hath bene ſo highlie praiſed, it cannot therefore poſſiblie be the ſeate of Antichriſt. Here I gaue Doctor Saunders a diſtinction betwene the elder Romane Church and the yonger. The auncient Church of Rome indeede was worthelie extolled and magnified of the fathers for conſtant keeping of the faith, although euen then in that Church the egge was laide, whereof ſhortlie after Antichriſt was hatched: the diſtinction M. R. raileth at with all his mighte, but cannot diſprooue with all his learning, it being euident in al hiſtories, that after the daies of thoſe godly fathers the Biſhop of Rome was made head of the vniuerſal Church, wherein he was publikely proclaimed to be the Antichriſt, that ſhould come: & afterward continually both religion, learning, and good life died by litle and litle in that Church, as hath bene teſtified and complained of by infinite writers. So the difference betweene that Church in former & latter time is no leſſe euident, then betweene a mans youth and doting age, if you conſider all partes and properties of a true Church. And yet, ſaith Maſter Rainolds, if it be lawfull thus to anſwere. then ſhall no hereſie euer be repreſſed, forgetting fowlie, that hereſie muſt be refuted and repreſſed by ſcripture, which neuer changeth, but abideth for euer, though Churches varie both from others, and from themſelues.
In the third demonſtration,Pag. 50. &c. wherein Saunders affirmeth the ſucceſſion of prieſts in the Romane Church, to be the rocke againſt which the gates of hell ſhall not preuaile, I denie the outwarde chaire or ſucceſſion of biſhops to be the immoueable & inuincible Rocke, wheron the Church is builded; which is the ſonne of God himſelfe, the onelie foundation of the Church. For outwarde ſucceſſion is no more certaine in that Church, then in others; and it hath bene diuerſe times broken of and diſcontinued by vacations and ſchiſmes for manie yeares together. If then the Church had bene builded vponupon this tottering rocke of externall ſucceſſion, at Rome, it had oftentimes bene daſhed and ouerthrowen: but thankes be to God, the Church is builded vponupon a ſurer rocke, then is the perſonall ſucceſſion of your Popes, or els of anie eſtate of men in the worlde: and therefore, whatſoeuer becommeth of your Pope or of his chaire and ſucceſſion, the Church falleth not, but abideth and remaineth for euer. Your ſtories written in time of Antichriſtes tyrannie, what cauſe is there whie we ſhould anie whit regarde them, the authors thereof being infected with the errors of the Pope, and daring not write for the moſte parte otherwiſe then might well ſtand with his humor? And to all hiſtories, that ſince the defection hauehave commended the faith of that Church, we oppoſe the worde of God, which plainelie conuinceth it of manifold and damnable hereſies, beſides we could alledge ſundrie writers in all ages, that openlie hauehave reprooued the ſame.
The former diſtinction concerning the Romane Church,pag. 25. here Maſter Rainolds taketh in hand to diſprooue, and to ſhewe, that my paradox (as he calleth it) is impoſſible. Firſt he ſaith I graunted the Church of Rome to hauehave bene pure, godlie, Chriſtian, for ſixe hundred yeares after Chriſt, which forſooth I neuer graunted (as he meaneth) that ſimply and abſolutelie no manner of corruption in anie parte of doctrine had taken place therin: but onelie according to the ſtate of thoſe times, and compariſon of that general apoſtaſie which afterward enſued. So your conceit M. R. that this alteration ſhould whollie be wrought within the ſpace often or twelue years, is ſo vaine & childiſh, that nothing can be deuiſed more fooliſh and farther of from the purpoſe. No, M. Rainolds, notwithſtanding Antichriſt was not openlie aduanced in the Romane Church before Bonifacius the third, yet was there in it no ſmall preparation for entertayning of him before that time through corruption of doctrine and manners in that Church: & though it was in manie things corrupted before, yet had it alſo great ſinceritie, which by little and little decaied more and more till Antichriſt came, and was reuealed: and after Antichriſt was ſeated there, yet was not therefore all puritie loſt by and by, but in continuance of time it fainted and languiſhed, hauing receiued deadlie poiſon, and no remedie being prouided. Wherefore this roye of yours, was indeed a vanitie of vanities fitte for ſuch a vaine ſophiſter as you are.
But now becauſe Doctor Saunders and M. Rainolds boldelie affirme that by teſtimonies of ſtories no hereſie was brought into the Romane Church, or anie chaunge of doctrine euer made in the ſame, let me put them in minde briefelie,Sigisb…rt. Gemblacenſis. in Chronico, Ann. 1088. that Sigisberius the moncke an Hiſtoriographer, mentioned by them both, expreſſelie chargeh Gregorie the ſeauenth and his ſucceſſours, for maintaining and practizing not onelyonly an error, but an hereſie alſo, in taking vponupon them authoritie to excommunicate the Emperour, and other ciuill Princes.
This hereſie hath euer ſince continued in that See, and is at this daie, by the Pope and his Popelings auouched: and therefore by confeſſion of their owne Hiſtoriographers,Pag. 55. ſome hereſie hath taken place in the Church of Rome, contrarie to Doctor Saunders, and Maſter Rainolds proude aſſertion.
That the Romane Church of later time, hath not chaunged the faith which the auncient Romane Church profeſſed, Master Rainolds promiſeth now to prooue, by ſuch teſtimonies, as I muſt needes alowe for vpright, and ſufficient. My ſelfe is the firſt: then Caluine, Luther, Martyr, Illyricus: none of which euer dreamed of ſuch a matter, as he taketh in hand to prooue by their confeſſion. That I hauehave ſaid the firſt Romane Church helde the purity of faith, nothing concerneth the later Church; & in what ſenſe I hauehave ſo ſaide, is before declared: not thereby to iuſtifie that Church in euerie particular doctrine, cuſtome, or ceremonie, but onelie that the principall and ſubſtantiall articles of Chriſtian religion were in it maintained againſt the heretikes of thoſe times. Then that Caluine, Lu…. &c. do graunt, that the primitiue Romane Church maintained and beleeued the Popes ſupremacie, the ſacrifice of the Maſſe, reall preſence and Prieſthoode, is moſte vntrue, as further in diſcourſe of this booke ſhall appeere. And therefore the concluſion that of theſe premiſes ſhould enſue, is like the vntimelie fruite, that ere it be ripe falleth downe to the ground.
And as for the common place that followeth concerning the continuance of Chriſts vniuerſall Church,pag. 57. to what purpoſe doth it ſerue or what argument maie it afforde you? we beleeue and confeſſe to the comforte of our ſoules, that Chriſts Church hath continued, and neuer ſhall faile ſo long as the worlde endureth, and we account it a profane hereſie, to teach that Chriſts Catholike vniuerſal Church hath periſhed from the earth at anie time. For this aſſertion (as you truelie prooue) ſhaketh the foundations of all faith and religion. But as you hauehave effectuallie and inuinciblie by manifolde ſcriptures euinced that Chriſts Church can neuer be rooted out, and no man in the world can open his mouth againſt you herein, ſo if you had alſo proued by like euidence of ſcripture that the Catholike vniuerſall Church of Chriſt is nothing els but the outwarde ſucceſſion of the Romane ſee, then had you prooued your matters ſoundlie, and confuted our opinion truelie, and proceeded orderlie. But hauing ſpoken much concerning the perpetuitie of Chriſts Church, which no Chriſtian can denie or doubt of, you bring vsus no text not reaſon to ſhew that Chriſts Church either is the Popes ſucceſſion, or els dependeth vponupon the ſame. For as touching externall ſhew and ſucceſſion of Churches the ſcriptures hauehave foretolde, that Antichriſt ſhall ſeduce great and ſmall,Apoc. 12.61. & 13.16. rich and poore, free and bonde, and that the Church ſhall flie into the wildernes, and there remaine, of al which no word could be true, if the Catholike Church were tied to the Popes Chaire, and the Popes Chaire were the rocke that can not be remooued. And yet notwithſtanding this generall diſperſion and flight of the Church vnderunder Antichriſt, the Catholike Church ſhall for all that continue, although not in that outwarde ſtrength and glorie, in which ſometimes it hath appeered and floriſhed.
Now this long diſcourſe following, is viſible,Pag. 59. &c. and the Teſtimonies of Melancthon, Oecolampadius, Caluine, and Illyricus at large rehearſed to that purpoſe; all this argueth nothing els, but pitifull and groſſe ignorance in this man, who not knowing what he auoucheth, or what he refelleth, yet laieth on ſuch loade, as though with euerie blow he felled his aduerſarie to the ground. The militant Church of Chriſt to be a viſihle companie, who hath from the beginning of the world denied? or who could euer otherwiſe imagine, but that men, whoſoeuer they be, are viſible and maie be diſcerned? This therfore required not ſo manie proofes as you hauehave brought, being liberall where no neede is: neither in this reſpect do we meane that there is an inuiſible Church, by which we vnderſtand the elect, the faithfull, the members of Chriſtes myſticall bodie: who although they maie be ſeene outwardlie, in that they are men, yet their election, their faith, their ſpirituall adoption and coniunction with Chriſt, in which reſpect they are truelie his Church, can not by outward ſenſe be perceiued. The number of profeſſors is viſible, but the number of the elect is not viſible, that is, can not by ſight and ſenſe be tried, diſcerned, and ſeparated from all others. This is the meaning of that diſtinction, which you ought to hauehave knowen before you laboured to diſprooue it. But if taking vponupon you to refute a thing, whereof you are ignorant, you faile ſhamefullie, and make your ſelfe verie ridiculous to your reader, it is no maruell, and you can blame no other then your owne ſelfe.
For what conceite was this that you hauehave nouriſhed in your braine,Pag. 64. and vttered in this booke, that we ſhould make the Church of Chriſt to be inuiſible in ſuch ſorte, as you maintaine the bodie of Chriſt to be inuiſiblie in the Sacrament, and hereupon note a wonderfull contradiction in our doctrine. I maie truelie ſaie your caſe is lamentable, and ſo is theirs that depend vponupon you, to be thus abſurdlie and wilfullie blinded in matters of faith, and as it were to grope for light at noone daie, which ſheweth in you indeede a notable reprobation of vnderſtanding, as a iuſt puniſhment of your Apoſtaſie. The Church is not inuiſible, becauſe the men of whom the Church conſiſteth are inuiſible (for the faithfull and elect in that they are men, are no leſſe viſible then the reſt) but becauſe the elect of God can not be perceaued and acknowledged, by outwarde ſight of our eies. Of Chriſtes bodie you teach moſt falſlie, that his verie true naturall humane bodie is in the Sacrament, yet that no ſenſe can perceaue it to be there: which is to denie and ouerthrow the trueth of his humanitie. Therfore you ſee (if anie facultie of ſeeing remaine in you) that betweene this doctrine The Church of Chriſt is inuiſible, that is, not able by our eies to be diſcerned, and this, The bodie of Chriſt if it were preſent in the Sacrament bodelie (as you teach) ſhould be viſible, that is, ſeene with our eies, is not ſo much as a ſhadow or fancie of anie contradiction.
After all this Maſter Rainolds maketh a long diſcourſe of Dauid George and Sebaſtian Caſtalion, pag. 66.of whome or for whome I hauehave for my parte noe neede to anſwere. Dauid George was a damnable heretike, and his hereſies were by Proteſtantes not Papiſtes deſcried and refuted. Caſtalion you ſlaunder moſte ſhameleſlie in ſaying he denied Chriſt to be the Meſſias, as hereafter alſo in your booke you hauehave done. His preface which he writ to King Edwarde before his tranſlation of the Bible, conteineth no ſuch argument, and leadeth whollie to another end, if you had either witt to ſee it, or good will to acknowledge it. Therein he diſputeth that ſome part of thoſe promiſſes that are contained in the Prophets, and namelie concerning the great knowledge that ſhould be vnderunder Chriſt, is not yet accompliſhed: his opinion of which matters I leaue to himſelfe: but you hauehave not done well to charge him vntruelie with ſo foule a blaſphemie.pag. 70.
As for the great ſtraightes into which Caluine and Luther diſputing with the Iewes hauehave beene driuen by reaſon of this ſuppoſition, concerning the Churches fall, I know not anie, ſeing they neuer imagined anie ſuch fall, as you doe. No the heauens ſhall ſooner fall, then the Church: and therefore you miſtake the matter whollie, and like an ignorant ſophiſter make impertinent diſcourſes. The promiſes of almightie God concerning the largenes and beautie of his Church vnderunder Chriſt hauehave beene accompliſhed. The Goſpell hath beene preached throughout the world, the Church hath ſpread it ſelfe ouer all nations, and neuer ſince hath it beene ſhut vp within the limites of one countrie and people, as the Synagogue was. But as the Prophets foretolde that the Church ſhould be thus mightelie increaſed and multiplied, ſo the Apoſtles hauehave prophecied that in the Church ſhould be a defection, that Antichriſt ſhould ſit in the Temple of God, and that the Princes and people of the earth ſhould be drunken with the cuppe of his ſpirituall fornication and abhominations. As we confeſſe thoſe Prophecies to be fulfilled, ſoe muſt we likewiſe acknowledge the truth of theſe, and thereby we are hable to ſtop the mouthes not onelie of Iewes and Turkes, but of all papiſts alſo, in this controuerſie of the churches outward increaſe and decaie. Your monſtrous railing in the next ſection I pretermit, beſeeching God to open the eies of all Chriſtians, and to giuegive them vnderſtanding hartes, that they maie diſcerne Antichriſt from Chriſt, falſhood from trueth, and hereſie from pure religion.
But where you ſaie that there be many worſe Antichriſtes then the Pope,pag. 73. and compare certaine of your late Popes with ſome of our Engliſh Superintendents, as you call them, in reſpect of their behauiour and conuerſation of life, you ſtill miſconſtrue the matter, and ſpeake beſide the purpoſe.
Your Popes might hauehave vſed greater ſhew of honeſtie and godlines, then they hauehave done, & yet be neuer the further of from their kingdome of Antichriſt, which although it be much furthered and maintained by their pride, cruelty, couetouſnes, and ſuch other moſte monſtrous and outragious demeanour, as they hauehave vſed theſe manie hundred yeares; yet it conſiſteth principallie in that doctrine of Antichriſtianitie, which they holde, and by all poſſible meanes defend, moſt contrarie to the holie and Catholike religion of Chriſt.
And yet if your compariſon were admitted, and the liues of thoſe Antichriſts throughlie examined, it would appeere, that there hauehave not liued euer in anie ſtate from the beginning of the worlde more wicked, vile, and abominable men, then hauehave bene the Popes of Rome for diuers hundred yeares together by teſtimonie of their owne hiſtories. They hauehave in tyrannie exceeded Nero, in pride Nebuchadnezer, or Alexander the great, in other common vices, them that for the ſame hauehave bene moſte infamouſlie renowmed in the world: wherein if anie profeſſour of the goſpell ſhould reſemble them, or come neare vntounto them, it were a iuſt ſhame vntounto their perſon, but yet no diſproofe of their religion.
Now Master Rainolds proceedeth to another pointe,pag. 75. namelie the want of religion and conſcience, which he ſaith I hauehave ſhewed in this anſwere. A greauous accuſation, in matters of Religion to want religion, & where greateſt conſcience is required, to hauehave no conſcience at all. But if you examine his proofe, then ſhall you eaſilie perceiue the cauilling ſpirit of this accuſer, wherof you hauehave alreadie had, and ſhal hereafter hauehave moſt euident demonſtration. The fault no dout is verie hainous, wherupon he frameth ſo ſore an inditement, or els he a malitious enemie, that for no cauſe accuſeth ſo bitterlie. If I hauehave not ſet downe euerie word of Doctor Saunders booke, doth it therfore follow that I did it of an irreligious or vnconſcionable intent? What man preten…ing conſcience or religion, would thus ſurmiſe, ſeing for his life he can not ſhew, that I hauehave concealed or omitted the leaſt moment of anie one argument, that I hauehave taken to anſwere in his booke? If then I hauehave cut of in one or two Chapters ſome parte of his words being long and tedious, for no other cauſe in the world, but onelyonly to auoide prolixitie, what blame I hauehave therein deſerued, I put it to the verdite of all indifferent, religious, and conſcionable men to pronounce. Theſe men in pretending to anſwere our bookes, maie deale as they lift, maie omit anie thing at their pleaſure, maie ſert downe no more then ſhall like them beſt: maie reporte things that were not written, and all this ſhall eſcape in them without reproofe: If we leaue out a few wordes, being nothing els but wordes, for cumbring out bookes and readers with multitude of vnneceſſarie talke, this muſt be made a great crime, here is want of Religion and conſcience, and this muſt ſuffice to diſcredite all the reſt with thoſe, that will beleeue ſuch ſubtill and ſlaunderous perſuaſions.
The ſame practiſe he obiecteth alſo to Maſter Doctor Iewell, pag. 75.the late worthie Biſhop of Sariſburie of bleſſed memorie, whoe yet I am perſuaded hath dealt as faithfullie and ſincerelie with Doctor Harding, as anie aduerſarie hath euer done with another. In his Replie he hath printed D. Hardings wholl booke, omitting nothing from the beginning to the end, and made to all that he alledged for maintenance of his ſeuerall cauſes, a moſte learned and perfect anſwere, the which as yet was neuer refelled, nor neuer can be, I am ſure. Now conſider the dealing of Doctor Harding in his Reioynder, which beſides it is made but to one onelie article of ſeauen and twentie, it hath in a hundred places omitted much, ſo as in truth not halfe the Replie is intirely repeated and anſwered. In the defenſe of the Apologie he hath indeede abridged Doctor Hardings Confutation, being of ſuch length and bignes as was not conuenient wholly to be printed with the defenſe. But let them, if they can ſhew ſome argument diſſembled or paſſed ouer in ſilence, in all that which in the impreſſion is omitted. Which forſomuch as they cannot, it is no matter, though manie legions of ſuch idle words, as he hath filled that booke withal, were ſuppreſſed and drowned. And I praie you, how hath D. Harding behaued him-ſelfe in his detection? Hath he done, as you accufe M. Iewel for not doeing? Nothing les. Then why ſhould M. Iewell be accounted more worthie of blame, then D. Harding, hauing made no other fault, then that wherin D. Harding hath much more offended then he?
That I hauehave in thoſe places omitted ſome wordes, I graunt, Master Rainolds: pag. 77. &c.and the cauſe thereof I hauehave trulie declared. But tell me where is any part or proofe of Saunders demonſtrations vnanſwered. If you will examine what I hauehave anſwered to euerie one in order, you ſhall finde I hauehave not dealt any waies vntrulie or craftilie, as you would hauehave men think I did, but ſoundlie and ſufficientlie diſprooued, whatſoeuer he hath diſputed in any Chapter of thoſe fourty demonſtrations, ſhort or long. If you be angrie with me for not reciting all his wordes, and anſwering them particularlie, this vnderſtand that I for my parte would rather grinde in a mill, all the daies of my life, then be bound to anſwere ſuch infinite loquacitie, and garrulitie, as Doctor Saunders, and your ſelfe, and other your companions vſe in your writings. You poure forth ſuch floodes, or rather ſeas of words, that it is a moſte intollerable wearines to wade therein, although daunger of drowning, or taking great harme there can be none. But as to anſwere your wordes is a thing moſt tedious, beſides it is vnneceſſarie, ſo your reaſons againe are anſweared with as great delight, comforte, and facilitie. And if you thinke I hauehave not thoroughlie anſweared euerie demonſtration of Doctor Saunders, it is free for you to reſume or proſecute the controuerſie, which no doubt at this time you would hauehave done, being thereto ſo ſpecially by your ſuperiors appointed, but that you miſtruſted ſomewhat in your cauſe, and in your ſelfe. And although you promiſe ſome thing ſhall follow hereafter, yet conſidering both the practize of Papiſts, and a prouiſoe which here you make, I thinke we are to looke for litle more at your handes in defenſe of Saunders demonſtrations. Their practiſe is, leſt they might be thought vnhable to anſwere our bookes, to ſet forth ſome anſwere to a part, and then ſo dainlie to breake of with pretenſe of neceſſarie reaſon, and promiſe of proceading further at a more conuenient ſeaſon, and yet neuer to performe anie ſuch matter. So the defender of the Cenſure in the middes of his anſwere picketh a quarrell to make an end for that preſent, as though he meant at better leaſure to finiſh the whol. But it reſter has he left it then, and ſo is like to doe ſtill. So Maſter Rainolds purpoſing perhaps ſome ſuch matter, hath yet prouided aforehand, that if he faile in further anſwere, it ſhall not be taken in euill parte, ſeeing he hath reſtrained his promiſe with that exception, if he be not letted by thoſe that hauehave the regiment of his life and ſtudies. It may be, that they being diſcreet men will ſuffer Maſter Rainolds to proceed no further, leſt as of that, which he hath written alreadie, no great profit hath redounded to their cauſe, ſo in that which is to follow concerning Antichriſt, he rather hurt them much, then helpe them anie thing at all.
Maſter Rainolds concludeth his preface with a certaine Aduertiſement to the Reader,pag. 84. wherein firſt he noteth what kind of printes and editions he vſeth of ſuch bookes, as commonlie he alledgeth, not of the auncient fathers (for of them he alledgeth verie fewe) but of the late writers, with whoſe teſtimonies and ſentences he hath fraughted his booke from one end to another. If anie man hauehave pleaſure or purpoſe to peruſe his authorities, therein he may be ſomething holpen by this direction, which M. R. hath ſo carefully, though not much needfullie, gathered and prefixed before his booke. Albeit I thinke that not many Readers, of what iudgement ſoeuer they are in religion, conſidering how litle waight of matter is in thoſe allegations, wil greatlie cumber themſelues with ſeeking the impreſſions, turning the volumes, and peruſing the quotations, the labour being far greater, then the profit.
Secondlie, he talketh much and diſpureth to and fro by what name he maie call vsus, Chriſtians,pa. 86. or Catholikes, or heretikes, or proteſtants, or Zuinglians, or Sacramentaries, whereof no dout there was great cauſe in this manner to aduertiſe the reader. You call vsus indeede at your pleaſure by ſuch names as your maliciouſe and railing ſpirites can inuent, ſometime by one, and ſometime by another. Chriſtians and Catholikes you will not hauehave vsus named, reſeruing that denomination to your ſelues, to whome notwithſtanding of al profeſſors of Chriſtian religion the ſame doth leaſt appertaine. For our partes, ſoe long as we are ſure that the doctrine, which we follow, is the eternall word of God, and goſpell of his ſonne Chriſt, as we are by Gods grace moſt ſure, ſeeing it is plainlie ſet downe in the holie ſcriptures of the olde and new Teſtament, we care not what you thinke of vsus, or what you ſpeake of vsus, or by what names you reproche vsus. If you blaſpheme the doctrine of Chriſt, and call it hereſie, not fearing or ſparing the Lord himſelfe it is no wonder if you reuile vsus with all opprobrious names that can poſſiblie be deuiſed. We tell you notwithſtanding that if a Chriſtian be he that beleeueth in Chriſt, according to his word; if Catholikes be they that profeſſe the vniuerſall faith of Chriſt; we are truelie Chriſtians, and Catholikes, beleeuing ſoe, and profeſſing ſo. Lutheranes we are not, Zuinglianes we are not, Caluiniſts we are not, becauſe we mantaine not anie priuate or proper doctrine of Luther, or Zuinglius, or Caluine, no more then the faithfull ought in the primitiue Church to hauehave bene called Paulines, or Petrines, or Athanaſians, or by the name of anie other ſuch miniſter of Chriſt. Be ye called diuerſly, Franciſcanes, Benedictines, Dominicanes, Ieſuites, and whatſoeuer other title ye can take vp: we are not greeued at the multitude and varietie of your names, who being in truth almoſt anie thing rather then Chriſtians, delight in any name rather, then in the name of Chriſtians. But to vsus this one name is ſufficient, and ſuch as are equiualent therewith: we are content with it: we deſire no other. As for the name of Proteſtants if you thinke it belongeth not to vsus, giuegive it them whoſe it is: being not a name of Schiſme or ſect, it may as well be vſed, as the name of Catholikes: and for diſtinction ſake onelie, being begon firſt at the diet of Argsburgh, we are enforced to vſe it.
Laſtlie Maſter Rainolds proteſteth his readines to ſubmit himſelfe to the trueth,pag. 92. to defend a fault, or to correct it. This indeed is too great indifferencie and readines, whereby it appeereth you are not reſolued in your ſelfe, but can be content to applie your iudgement and trauail in defenſe or reproofe of anie opinion, good or bad, true or falſe. Correct your faults Maſter Rainolds, but leaue of to maintaine them. I hauehave in this booke made them plaine enough both to your ſelfe and to others: you cannot but ſee them, God giuegive you grace to acknowledge them, to be aſhamed of them, and, as you hauehave promiſed, to correcte them. You knowe that in this booke you hauehave wrangled without meaſure, you hauehave railed without ſhame, you hauehave committed as foule and notorious faults in reaſoning, as anie man could doe: your Logike is naught, your diuinitie is worſe, and your conſcience, as it maie ſeeme, is worſt of all. If there yet remaine in you anie drop of that ſimplicitie, which you profeſſe, then giuegive ouer defenſe of ſuch vntrueth, reforme your iudgement, and returne by repentance from whence you are fallen, If you continew in willful Apoſtaſie, your blood be vponupon your owne head, you hauehave bene warned, and would not harken. I referre you to the Lordes iudgement, who ſhall get glorie either by your conuerſion and ſaluation, or els by your finall hardening, and condemnation: The Lord hath made all things for himſelf, yea the wicked for the daie of euill.