Answer to Campian the Jesuit, Reasons · Answer 9

Answer to Campian the Jesuit · Reasons · Answer 9

p. 299WILLIAM WHITAKERS. The anſwere to the tenth Reaſon, which is all manner of Witneſſes.

CAmpian, you are now low drawn and doe plainely bewray your want and deſperate beggerie. Hitherto hauehave you found no place of ſure footing, and therefore now you hauehave reſolued to wander and runne thorough whatſoeuer is in the world. So one while you flie aloſt into heauen, by and by you ſlippe downe to hell: after you viſit the Iewes, Pagans, Turkes, Heretikes, Lands, Seas Apoſtolike, Nations and Countries farre remote, ſearching diligently for any monument of your ſuperſtition. I am ſorrie and aſhamed on your behalfe, whom I ſee painefully buſied about meere trifles. For what a witles kinde of reaſoning is this; firſt to recken vp the Saints in Heauen, and ſay, theſe are ours? Then to number vp the damned, Iewes, Gentiles, Turkes, Heretikes, and affirme thoſe are the enemies of our Church? To rehearſe thoſe Countries that hauehave been conuerted to the faith of Chriſt, and conclude by and by, theſe are of our Religion? would you take this man to bee well in his wits, compaſſing Heauen, Earth and Hell ſo childiſhly,aaDVR. Jf heere he any thing ridiculous, then may you laugh at the Prophet, vvho a… ſpeedily runnes ouer the whole world. And S. Paul tooke a testimony for a truth out of the beathen Poet, Act. 17.2…. WHIT. pag. 856. Who knoweth not that God may be knowne by his creatures, & religion illuſtrated by nature vncorrupt? but what nature, I pray you, hath taught Camptā thus to iudge of the heauenly ſpirits and the damned ſoules, and of the whole fr…me of things? can he learne by nature that thoſe who hauehave profeſſed the Popiſh religion, doe novv enioy heauenly happines, and that they who diſlike it are tormented in hell? Theſe weapons of Campian were thoſe that impure Symmachus oppoſed Chriſtian religion withall, Ambroſ. Epiſt. 30. Prudent. contra Symmachum.Acts 17:2 ridiculouſlie, and impertinently taking vntounto himſelfe, what he liketh, and reiecting the reſt? A worthie cauil, fit for none but Ieſuites, which when p. 300a man hath by one negatiue diſcharged, can neuer be proued by their peruerſe ſect and whole ſocietie. Theſe dreames of yours (Campian) are vnworthie any anſwere, one word of denial confutes this whole Chapter. I will not beſtow much time in anſwering this Sophiſme, ſo vnhanſomely framed, and patched together; it ſhall ſuffice lightly to paſſe, and only touch eueryevery thing in a word. Firſt therefore you alledge the prophecie of Eſay, of a ſtraight way wherein the ſimple ſhould not erre. bbDVR. You ſhew your ignorance in the Prophet; for he ſpeaketh not of the way to the Church, but of the Church it ſelfe, vvhichwhich is the high way to heauen. WHIT. pag. 857. Howſoeuer you interpret the way, it maketh neither much for me, nor for you. The queſtion is who ſhall find out that way and walke in it, for it is not diſcerned of all, becauſe it is a plaine way, nor held of all, becauſe it is a right way: but he that hath learned Chriſt is he that walketh in this way without any error, though he be but ſillie and vnskilfull. DVR. Jf this be ſo, then can it not be the true Church, which conteineth ſinners and men polluted. And the Fathers by this place exclude only thoſe who are not clenſed by Baptiſme. WHIT. pag. 858. The Prophet ſpeaketh of the Church of the elect and Saints, becauſe he ſaith verſ. 8. The polluted ſhall not paſſe by it: and verſ. 20. the redeemed only, whoſe ioy ſhall be euerlaſting: but the viſible Church conteineth thoſe which are impure, whom Chriſt hath not redeemed, and whoſe ioy ſhall periſh. As for Baptiſme it purgeth none but ſuch as lay hold of the promiſe of free iuſtification by Chriſt, as Tit. 3.5.Titus 3:5Heere the Prophet deſcribes the entrance into Chriſts Church, viz. that it ſhould be ready, plaine and eaſie. But this way brings vsus not to your Church: c for of this way the Prophet reports, that no prophane man, no Lion or cruell beaſt ſhall be found in it; whereas all your waies are compaſſed with polluted men, raging beaſts, Lions, Beares, Leopards, Dragons, Diuels; and in concluſion, they leade miſerably bewitched men, vntounto wofull deſtruction. As for vsus, we treade that way, which Chriſt and his Apoſtles hauehave traced out before vsus, wee auoyde your erroneous and ſtrange waies, becauſe p. 301it is the way of ſinners, that you ſ…d in; which way whoſoeuer tread…,Pſal. 1.1. Rom. 3.17.Ps 1:1Rom 3:17 the way of pe…ce they hauehave not knowne. Firſt, vnderſtand the path well your ſelues, and then direct the way vntounto vsus.

Let vsus (ſay you) aſ…d into heauen: I feare you Ieſuites hauehave no place there, Heauen is for Chriſtians, not Ieſuites. But ſuppoſe your ſelues for the time to be in heauen, what followeth? Let vsus behold (ſay you) the Martyrs▪ 33. Biſhops of Rome ſlaine together, the Vniuerſall Pastors, companies of the faithfull, all holie Saints. Well, ſuruey (Campian) heauen it ſelfe, and all the heauenly hoſt, looke well in all the parts, and coaſts of it whiles you liſt, you ſhall not find there (vponupon my word) one Ieſuit not one Papiſt; for none ſhall ſtand in Mount Zion with the Lamb,Apoc. 14.1.Rev 14:1 that hauehave receiued the marke of the beaſt, or belong vntounto Antichriſt. But in heauen are 33. Biſhops of Rome, and many more, I doubt not; but of all theſe, name me one, if you can, of your religion, whom you may iuſtly claime as yours. Thoſe were holy and faithfull Biſhops which ſhed their bloud for the name of Chriſt. But your Popes for theſe many hundred yeares, what elſe hauehave they done, but perſecuted Chriſt, and murthered his true ſeruants? If thoſe 33. Biſhops be in heauen (as doubtleſſe they are) how many late Popes could I recken vp, which poſſibly cannot be where they are, in all things they are ſo vnlike them? You pick out a few, let vsus ſee who theſe are: Ignatius, ſay you, was ours; why I pray you? He thought no man equall to the Biſhop in cauſes eccleſiaſticall, not the King himſelfe, and left in writing certaine Apoſtolike traditions; neither ſay we that any man is to be compared with the Biſhop in ſuch things as belong to his office:ddDVR. If theſe be ſo proper to Biſhops, that they cannot belong to Kings, then, you being iudge, the Queene cannot be the head of the Engliſh Church. WHIT. pag. 160. We acknowledge no other head of the Church ſaue Chriſt. And Prince though they may not do any of th…ſe …, yet they rule ouerthem, who doe and ought to command them, diligently to execute their offices; which if they neglect, they ought to reproue, compell, and puniſh them, as we reade the good Kings of the Church Iewiſh and Chriſtian hauehave euer done: and the reaſon hath no force, Princes hauehave no authoritie to preach, therefore they hauehave no authority to puniſh thoſe who teach falſe doctrine to their people. He only ought to ouerſee p. 302holy things, viz. instruction of the people, administration of the Sacraments, vſe of the keyes of the kingdome of heauen. Theſe are matters of great weight, and exceed the kingly authority; yet are Kings aboue Biſhops in wealth, honor, gouernment, maieſtie, and they may lawfully both admoniſh them of their dutie, and reſtraine them when they offend. If Biſhops herein would equall themſelues with Kings it were too intolerable. As for the Apoſtles traditions which Ignatius hath left in writing, we receiue them ſo farre as they agree with the Apoſtolicall Scripture: if they diſſent from thoſe, we refuſe them. The Epiſtles of Ignatius were moſt of them counterfet, as eueryevery man may ſee: heere you rehearſe many, and ſtill the vnderſong is, theſe are ours: Teleſphorus (ſay you) Ireneus, Victor, Polycarp, Cornelius, Cyprian, Sixtus, Laurentius, are ours. But I affirme that all theſe do belong vntounto vsus: let vsus then conſider how you will perſwade vsus they are yours.

Telesphorus enioyned a more ſtrict obſeruation of Lent fast, appointed by the Apoſtles. eeDVR. But J proue it by theſe witneſſes, Auguſtine, Hierome, Baſil, Ambroſe, Epiphanius, Clemen…. WHIT. pag. 862. And I proue the contrary by the Fathers. August. Epist. …6. writeth plainely that neither Chriſt not his Apoſtles ordained any certaine time for faſtings. And ſo not Lent. Tertul. aduer. Pſychicos: In times paſt Chriſtiās indifferently fasted, of their owne free will, as eueryevery mans time and occaſions required, and not by any cōmand of new gouernmēt. Doth not this ouerthrow the neceſſary obſeruatiō of Lent? Chryſo. in Mat. hom 47. freely confeſſeth that Chriſt did not command vsus to imitate his faſt. But what is Lent but an imitation of it? Further, Montanus was the firſt who brought vp ſet ſolemne daies of faſtings, Euſeb. lib. 5. cap. 17. Finally, Ireneus in Euſebius lib. 5. cap. 26. ſheweth that in the Primitiue Church, there was great variety about the keeping of this faſt, and that this difference began not in his time only, but was long before. Therefore it is falſe that Chriſt and his Apoſtles appointed the faſt of Fortie daies.I deny that the p. 303Apoſtles ordeined any ſuch Len…en faſt, or that Telesphorus, commaunded a more preciſe obſeruation thereof. The Apoſtles were farre from ordeining, and Telesph…rus from reuiuing ſo great ſuperſtition.

Clemens his Conſtitutions where this is reported, are not ſufficient authoritie. But if this faſt were preſcribed by the Apoſtles, I wonder how afterwards it was diſcontinued, ſo as it ſhould bee neceſſarie for Teleſphorus to enioyn the keeping of it more preciſely, eſpecially ſeeing ſuch ſtrife was in the Church about the celebration of Eaſter. The epiſtle of Teleſphorus wherein he commaunds the 7. weekes faſt, hath the ſame authority with the reſt of your decretall epiſtles of your Pope, which were not framed by the moſt holy Biſhops themſelues, but coyned ſince by the moſt impudent Paraſites of the church of Rome.Jren. lib. 4. cap. 43. Ireneus (ſay you) declared the Apoſtolike faith from the ſucceſſion and ſea of Rome. So he might well then: for as Ireneus elſewhere ſaith, They retained with the ſucceſſion of Biſhops, the gratious ſucceſſion of truth: for ſucceſſion is nothing worth without truth. Your Chaire and Sea hath Biſhoply ſucceſſion; it hath not the ſucceſſion of truth. Victor (ſay you) by his edict ſubdued Aſia. He endeuored it indeed (Campian) but failed of his purpoſe: for being a man very paſſionate, he would needs excommunicate all ſuch Churches of Aſia as refuſed to keepe Eaſter according to the Romane cuſtome. When he began thus inſolently to abuſe his authority,ffDVR. Neither Ireneus nor any other denied to Pope Victor this power to excommunicate the Churches of Aſia. WHIT. pag. 863. But Euſebius wri…eth lib. 5. cap. 25. that both Ireneus and many other Catholike Biſhops ſharpely reproued him for aſſuming that power. Ireneus tamed and reſtrained him. As for the controuerſie about Eaſter, Victor was ſo farre from compoſing and ending it, that it cōtinued vntounto theggDVR By the ſame reaſon you may ſay the Coūcels decree preuailed nothing to endi… controuerſie. WHIT. pag. 864. The reaſon is good, & proueth that whē he could preuaile neither by examples, reaſons, nor threatnings, that thoſe Churches did not accoūt Pope Victor for the head of the Church. And though after that Councell of Nice, ſome Churches obſerued the Paſſeouer after another manner, yet the moſt Churches followed the iudgement and authoritie of the Councell. So the Councell preuailed more then the Pope could doe. Councell p. 304cell of Nice. You may ſee how well Victor ſubduer all Aſia.

Polycarpe in the question about Easter went to Rome, Smyrna gathered his reliques. Wonderfull reaſons. Polycarpe went to Rome to conſult with Anycetus about Eaſter, and Smyrna gathered his reliques; ergo Polycarpe is yours. Doth not the learned Vniuerſities make you aſhamed of this childiſh ſophiſtrie?hhDVR. Enuie maketh you forge an vntruth. And whil. for eunie you pine avvay a… the honor which is giuen of Christians to the reliques of Martyrs, you imitate the Jewes and the Diuell. WHIT. pag. 865. I hauehave ſpoken neither leſſe nor more then Euſebius hath written who thē liued▪ After we had gathered his banes being more precious then pearles and gold, we buried them where it was thought ſit. And as for the reliques of Sai…ns, I enuy them not, the Saints themſelues I euer honorablie remember. But that the reliques of Saints were worſhipped with religi…us honor, as they are in your Church, you ſhall neuer be able to proue. His bones indeed were gathered by the Church of Smyrna, not to worſhip them, but to bury them, as Euſebius in the ſame place recordeth. But why are Cornelius and Cyprian yours? forſooth, becauſe Cornelius aboliſhed the ⁱ African error, and Cyprian had him in great reuerence. Oh wonderfull Ieſuiticall Logick llDVR. His ſupreame authoritia appeareth in this, becauſe hee decreed that controuerſie, being not the Biſhop of Africke, but of Rome. WHIT. pag. 866. Saint Paul confuted many errors of the Churches of Galatia, Co…inth, Rome and diuers others, yet was hee neuer ſupreame Biſhop. So did Augustine: But what error did he ſuppreſſe? was it touching Baptiſme by heretikes; that he neuer could doe, but Cyprian and the Biſhops of Africke conſtantly held it: which proued they neuer acknowledged that he had any ſuch authoritie.who can chuſe but be much moued with ſuch ſtrong reaſons? But let vsus heare another.

Sixtus is ours: and why ſo? Seauen of the Clergie miniſtred vntounto him, while hee ſerued at the altar. Seauen Deacons helped Sixtus to celebrate the Lords ſupper, ergo Sixtus is yours. If this reaſon be of force, let him be yours hardly, I will not ſtriue with you about him; but herein is nothing why he may not as well bekkDVR. Pope Sixtus a Priest, offred vp the body and blood of Christ, Deacons aſſisting of him could not bee a Caluinist, but on our ſide. WHIT. pag. 868. As if we had no Deacons, who helpe the Miniſter when he celebrateth the Lords Supper? ours as yours. Doth it become you (Campian) p. 305thus to trifle, thus to abuſe our patience? What followeth? Laurence is yours: how ſo I pray you? Our aduerſaries hauehave caſt him out of their Calouder. We remember him with reuerence as a ſaint, and a friend of Chriſt; though we worſhip him not as God. But Prudentine prayed vntounto him a thouſand yeares agoe. GiueGive leaue (Campian) to a Poet, to vſe poeticall auerſions, from whence yet no ſtrong reaſon can be drawne. But if Prudentius were ſomething too ſuperſtitious, what is that to vsus? Now you recken vp virgins, C…cilia, Agatha, and others: but what hauehave they done why they ſhould not be ours? When the Tyrants examined them of their faith, they profeſſed themſelues Chriſtians: if they were Chriſtians, they were ours. But Helen, ſay you, was ours, who is eueryevery way famous for finding the croſſe of Chriſt. That which Ambroſe reports of Helen, is very ſuſpitious, and Golaſius Biſhop of Rome calleth theſe things that were bruted of the inuention of the croſſe,Dill. 15. Sanct. Romana. new reuelations. But graunt that Helen found the Croſſe, for it is not greatly materiall: Did ſhe adore it? for that is to the purpoſe. Heare what Ambroſe ſaith: She found the ſtile, Ambroſ. in Orat. ſuneb. Theodoſ.ſhe worſhipped the King, not the wood certainly: for this is a heatheniſh error, and a vanity of the wicked. Wherefore though ſhe found the Croſſe, that is no reaſon to prooue her yours, ſeeing ſhe worſhipped not the croſſe, as you do: for not finding, but adoring of thellDVR. VVee giuegive not Latria diuine worſhip to the Croſſe. WHIT pag. 868. The diſtinction vvill not excuſe you, for you reach that the Croſſe and the Image of Chriſt, is to bee worſhipped with Latria or diuine worſhip, Thom. 3. part. 25. q. act. 3. & 4. which is ſo horrible and pernicious, that it exceedeth all the ſuperſtition of old Idolaters. Croſſe makes a Papiſt.

Monica is ours, who at her death deſired they ſhould pray, and offer ſacrifice for her at Christes altar. Monica deſired not that themmDVR. Shee deſired to be ſacrificed for, and what other ſacifice is there, but the ſacrifice of the Altar, to take away the hand a ritiue againſt vsus. WHIT. pag. 870. That I hauehave anſwered in Augustines … words, Confeſſ. lib. 9. cap. 13. hee only deſired to bee remembred at the Altar. It was a cuſtome in the Church to make honorable mention of the Patriarkes, Prophets, Apoſtles, the Virgin Mary, the Martyrs, and Confeſſors, whom they neuer thought to be tormented in Purgatorie; but your Maſſe is offered for thoſe, whom you thinke as yet not to be freed from that fire, and to be in heauenly ioyes. And what a kind of ſacrifice it was, Augustine ſheweth in the ſame place, ſaying: Thy hand mayden kuit her ſoule by the bond of faith, to the Sacrament of that price of our redemption. He calleth then the Euchariſt a ſacrifice which taketh away the hand-writing againſt vsus, becauſe it is the Sacrament of that ſacrifice. ſacrifice of the Maſſe ſhould be offred for her, for the forgiuenes and expiation p. 306of her ſinnes, neither did Augustine either pray or offer for his mother in this manner. The deſire of Monica was only this, that at the celebration of the Euchariſt there might alwaies be a remembrance of her, inſomuch as ſhe aſſured herſelfe ſhe was one of the heauenly ſocietie and communitie of ſaints. Auguſtine indeed prayed for his mother, I denie not; but this his fact proceeded more of affection to his mother then for any neceſſitie. And the cuſtome of prayer for the dead, which preuailed in many places, was not deriued from the authoritie of the ſcriptures, but only from an exceſſiue kind of louelove and reuerence of them that liued, towards their friends that were dead. But that Auguſtine neuer beleeued his mother to be in Purgatory, that his prayers might releeue her there, it is manifeſt; for thus he ſaith, Forgeue her Lord, forgiue her, I beſeech thee, August. confeſſ. lib. 9. cap. 13.enter not into iudgement with her ô Lord, yea ô Lord, I beleeue thou haſt already graunted that which I deſire, but accept ô Lord the freewill offrings of my mouth. But if we ſhould graunt that both Auguſtine and his mother went a little awry, you cannot heere inferre that either of them are yours, for ſo much as we are not to giuegive cenſure of the Fathers (in greateſt cauſes) by one particular iudgement, but by their continuall and conſtant opinion. You annex hereunto Paula and Paulus, Hilarian and Authony. I could recken p. 307ſixe hundred Monks like vntounto theſe, whereof not one was a Papiſt, none of them yours. All theſe were Chriſtians louing ſolitarines, that they might more quietly intend the meditation of heauenly things. Compare not your Monks with theſe, which are of an other ſort, and ſect of Monks. Theſe were holy, painefull, faithfull, full of good works: yours are impure, idle, idolatrous, deuourers, hogges, oxen, aſles: how are thoſe like? But how ſhall it appeare vntounto vsus that Satyrus the brother of Ambroſe was yours? Being in danger, he leaped into the ſea and ſwimming eſcaped by the ſtrength of his faith. A goodly reaſon; he was a good ſmimmer, ergo nnDVR But which of you did any ſuch thing armed thing armed with the Caluinist Supper? WHIT. pag. 872. And which of you armed with the Hoſt, durſt caſt himſelfe into the ſea, vnleſſe he had learned firſt to ſwimme? And at that time Satyrus was not only ſaued, but alſo others who had not the Hoſt.yours: other pretence you make none. Why Nicholas and Martinus ſhould be yours, you ſhew no cauſe, for wearing haire-cloth, fasting and watching, are no marks of your Biſhops. Benedict (ſay you) was the founder and father of the Monkiſh profeſſion, therefore without doubt he muſt be yours. I could be content to leaue him, as too ſuperſtitious, yet can you not prooue that he was yours, or fauoured your religion in all or the moſt things. Heere you ſay you paſſe ouer thouſands, Francis I thinke you meane, and Dominicke, and thoſe huge ſwarmes of white Friers and blacke Friers: I freely bequeath them vntounto you, and willingly ſuffer you to enioy them, and all ſuch as were like them. They were not of that worth that we ſhould need greatly to ſtriue about them. You paſſe ouer the Doctors in ſilence, which you formerly remembred; wherein I commend your wiſedome, ſeeing to them you can make no claime without doing them too apparant wrong. You demaund of all thoſe before recited, whether they were Catholicks or Lutheranes; to which I will anſwere, when you hauehave ſhewed how Lutheraniſme diſſenteth frō true Catholick religion. Luther taught no new doctrine, he reſtored and mainteined the auncient Catholicke p. 308faith. What though he was vnknowne vntounto thoſe auncient Fathers, as being himſelfe of later yeares, yet the doctrine he brought was Euangelicall and Apoſtolick, which you had welnigh extinguiſhed, which he reſtored to his former beautie and perfection. Anſwere me (Campian) this one thing; of all thoſe you hauehave named, what one was aooDVR. But all theſe did euer conſent in faith and differed only in ſuch things which might be diſputed vvithout any hazard of faith. WHIT. pag. 873. Be it granted, they did agree in matter of faith: vvhy then do they not follow all one rule? But S. Paul reproued the Corinthians agreeing in faith, becauſe they attributed to their Miniſters more then was meete, vvhileſt one had deuoted himſelfe to S. Paul, another to S. Peter, another to Apollo. What then ſhall be done to the Scotiſtes, Thom…ſtes & others? are the names of Scotus, Thomas, Francis more holy and lawfull names in their diſciples, then the names of S. Peter, S. Paul, and of Apollo? Beſides the difference is very great, not in the name, but in things alſo As thus Let the queſtion be whether the Croſſe and Image of Chriſt bee to bee worſhipped with the ſame kind of worſhip that Chriſt is adored withall? Doth not this appertaine to faith? But error in this will be plaine Idolatrie. And yet you know ſome of the Schoolemen ſtand for it, ſome againſt i…: what of that queſtion, which hath exerciſed al Churches and Schooles ſo long; Whether the Virgin Marie had originall ſinne, or was euer pure and without ſpot? And infinite ſuch differences I omit, being matter of faith. Thomiſt, Scotiſt, Dominican, Franciſcan, or Ieſuite? when you hauehave anſwered me touching thoſe, I will anſwere as touching Luther. You call the Throne of God to witnes, that if there be any heauen at all, it is proper to you. In any caſe auouch this boldly and confidently; though he that looks into your lines may wel thinke there is no heauen at all. For neither will you enter into heauen your ſelues, nor ſuffer thoſe that would; and the liues of thoſe of your ſide are ſuch, as are far fitter for hell then for heauen. I know not (Campian) what heauen you dreame of; if you meane the eternall habitation of God, and his Saincts, I take God to witnes the maker of this palace, and all the heauenly citizens, that there no place can be for you Papists, falſe Catholicks, Ieſuites. As you hauehave deuiſed a new faith whereby you muſt enter thither, ſo muſt you ſeeke a new heauen; in this you may not be. God graunt you may returne at length into the right way that leadeth into heauen.

p. 309Now being fallen from heauen,The damned. you looke into hell. I wiſh (Campian) you could ſeriouſly view thoſe infernall regions and places of the damned; for though I do willingly thinke nothing but well of the dead; yet I feare you ſhould find too too many of thē that hauehave flouriſhed in your Church, in thoſe places. Certainely (to ſay nothing of the reſt) your later Popes, as thoſe which were called by the names of Boniface, Innocent, Siluester, Gregory, Calixt, Vrbane, Alexander, Adrian, Pius, Leo, Paul, & almoſt all the reſt; were ſuch, as hardly can any man thinke they could enter into heauen. And further, I call Chriſt the only teacher of heauenly doctrine to record, that ſuch is your faith and religion, that who ſo maintaines it fullie and wholie, cannot raigne with Chriſt, nor be partaker of that heauenly life; and therefore not Iewes only, Pagans, Turks, and notorious Heretikes are tormented in that fire that neuer goes out, but Papists alſo, of all Heretikes the moſt vile and odious. Infinite are the ſoules of Chriſtian men, which hauehave been throwne headlong into this moſt wofull deſtruction theſe many hundred yeares by that Antichriſt of yours, who alone hath more inlarged that infernall kingdome, then all Iewes, Nerves, Mahomets, Arians, Nestorians, Macedonians, Eutychians, and the reſt. To you (Campian) I wiſh that ſaluation which cōſiſteth in the true knowledge of God, and whom he hath ſent Ieſus Chriſt, and deſire from my hart that now at length you will renounce that Romane Antichriſt, with whom you hauehave conuerſed, and returne vntounto Chriſt the onelyonly giuer of eternall life, from whom too long you hauehave baniſhed your ſelfe.

But let vsus conſider what theſe damned ones will further your cauſe.Jewes. The Iewes you begin with, and heere you reckon Hieruſalem, holy places, our Sauiours Sepulcher, the Manger, Croſſe, and other … p. 310from all which you cannot draw one argument for your purpoſe. I denie not, but great concourſe of people thronged vntounto the Citie, partly to heare and ſee the Apoſtles whiles they liued, and alſo to behold thoſe places, where Chriſt the Sonne of God had conuerſed; and at Ieruſalem were many things, which might moue and perſwade men to goe thither, that were any thing curiouſly inclined. And although the Church then was too much addicted to theſe obſeruations, and as a Spouſe exceedingly delighted with any remembrāce of her deceaſſed huſband, yet was ſhe then farre from thoſe ſuperſtitiousppDVR. VVee doe but imitate our fore fathers, who did ſuch things not of curioſity but religiouſly, Hier. Epiſt. ad Macel & Pailon. Auguſt. Epiſt. ad Clerum & Pop. Hipp. WHIT. pag. 878. But Chriſt ſaith, Joh. 4.21.23. If then I may worſhip God with great frui…e in mine owne countrie, I ſee not why I ſhould go to Hieruſalem or any other place on Pilgrimage. And if I hauehave the authoritie of the Scriptures, obiect not vntounto mee Hierom, or Augustine, or any other, whō I cannot allow to ſpeake without Scripture againſt Scripture. And as for Fathers, know you not that Gregorie Nyſſen hath with pregnant reaſon confuted all ſuperſtitious peregrinations? w…it not Bernard; Monkes must ſearch for the heauenly not earthly Hieruſalem, vvhichwhich they must goe vntounto not by their feete, but by affections?John 4:21John 4:23 pilgrimages, and dotings on Images, which with you Papiſts is now vſuall.

Neither was this often recourſe of Chriſtians into thoſe places the cauſe of the Iewes hatred vntounto thē, as you vntruly ſurmiſe; but the Goſpell was the true cauſe of difference betwixt them and vsus.Rom. 11.28Rom 11:28 They vrge Moſes; wee teach that Moſes muſt giuegive place to Chriſt;qqDVR. They hate vsus not ſo much for our faith and profeſſion, as becauſe wee hauehave ſpoiled them of their kingdome and Priest-hood, and hauehave cast them out of their countrie. WHIT. pag. 877. But what Chriſtian euer ſpoiled the Iewes of their kingdome, or thus expelled them? Did Caligula, Titus, or Adrian deſtroy the Iewes for the religion of Chriſt? And if they hated you, becauſe you hauehave bereft them of their Prieſt-hood, why not vsus for the Goſpell, which teacheth that the Prieſthood is tranſlated from the poſterity of Aaron vntounto Chriſt? from hence only proceeds their hatred vntounto vsus: but you are odious vntounto thē in many reſpects;rrDVR Many Jevves hauehave become Catholikes, but not Caluiniſts, as Jeuer heard of. WHIT. pag. 878. We deſire they might be made Chriſtians not Caluiniſts, as our Churches hath many of them, I will … you one, of whom it were ſtrange you ſhould not hauehave heard, Emanuell Tre…lius a Iew borne, being brought to the religion of Chriſt, whom Caluin loued dearely, and his Catechiſme he tranſlated into the Hebrew tongue. your manifold idolatries continually hindering p. 311them from receiuing the Goſpell of Chriſt. Remoue your idols, that we all that are called Chriſtians, may worſhip God in ſpirit and truth. The Iewes then will ioyne themſelues vntounto vsus, and will ſpeedily in great multitudes betake themſelues to the ſheepfold of Chriſt. The Iewes complaine they hauehave been deſtroyed by your Aunceſtors; whom meane you, the Romanes who raced the Citie vnderunder the conduct of Titus? Theſe were enemies of the faith of Chriſt: will you be their poſteritie, or what other Aunceſtors hauehave you, that hauehave been author of ſo great calamitie vntounto the Iewes? They hauehave, I graunt, many things in their religion, which will euer alienate them from you: yet in many reſpects the Iewes are much beholding vntounto you; ſo as vnleſſe they will incurre the ſuſpition of great vnthankfulnes, they muſt louelove you againe deſeruedly. For you giuegive them leaue to vſe their auncient Ceremonies, and that in Rome, and freely to vtter their blaſphemies againſt Chriſt without blame; ſo they pay tribute, they hauehave impunitie for all their ſacriledges and blaſphemies. The Lutheranes (ſay you) neuer oppoſed themſelues againſt them, neither did they euer receiue any damage from the Ieſuites.Heathens. You proceed to Heathens, among whom you affirme thoſe were moſt violent which deuiſed the moſt grieuous torments for Chriſtians. I will eaſily graunt, that thoſe Tyrants that killed and murthered the Chriſtians for the ſpace of 300. yeares, were violent and outragious aboue meaſure. What of this? Theſe (ſay you) that were thus drawne vntounto all kinds of torment that could be deuiſed, Theſe were the fathers and children of our faith. Nothing leſſe (Campian:) this ſhould hauehave bin p. 312ſoundly proued, not barely affirmed. No likenes or affinitie of faith or works can be found betwixt you and them, ſo farre are they from being your fathers, or you their children. For as our Sauiour ſaid to the Iewes, If you were the children of Abraham, Ioh. 8.39.John 8:39you would do the works of Abraham; ſo if theſe had been your fathers (as you ſay) & you their children, you ſhould hauehave reſembled them as your fathers. But beware (Campian) leſt that which followes agree more fitly vntounto you; You are of your father the Diu…ll. Joh. 8.88.John 8:88Theſe holy Fathers if they were now liuing, would diſclaime you from being their of-ſpring, ſo little you reſemble them in any thing. Be aſhamed at length to call your ſelues their poſteritie, from whom you hauehave ſo fouly degenerated; or if the name pleaſe you, indeuour that it may be proper vntounto you. But to what purpoſe make you mention of that Tyrant that broyled Laurence on a Gridyroul and why repeate you all theſe verſes out of Prudentius? He ſpeakes indeed of gold and ſiluer and torches; what of all this? Torches were needfull in the night ſeaſon, at which time the Chriſtians then vſed to meete, becauſe they durſt not aſſemble on the day, but toſſDVR. Yet was this a most auncient cuſtome: as diuers do testifie, and they vvere kindled then to ſhevv that the ſight of faith ought to bee kindled in the mind. WHIT. pag. 879. That which was done in the night, came in time to be done at noone day, I deny not: but I inquire by what Scripture, or what reaſon: as for your inuented myſterie, I ſay this is the way to fill all places with …ignes, figures, and fooliſh myſteries. But I can eaſily pardon you, whoſe ignorance and blindnes of mind is ſo great, that no light is ſufficient for you. light candles (as you do) at noone dayes, is meere madnes. The accuſation laid againſt him by the Tyrant, of gold, ſiluer, plate, and ſummes of money, wasttDVR. Yea your anſwere is falſe and fained for it was true which the Tyrant obiected to Laurence. WHIT. pag. 880. Is it like that the Church being vnderunder Tyrants could abound with ſuch riches of ſiluer and gold? But at the very ſame time their pouertie appeareth. For Gratian de Co…ſp…ra. Dist. 1. c. v…ſ…. bringeth in Boniface affirming that in time past they had golden Priests, and wooden Chalices. And Xepherinus the ſixteenth Biſhop of Rome, did ordeine that Maſſe ſhould bee celebrated in diſhes made of glaſſe. Pope Vrb…e was the first who made all the ministring diſhes of ſiluer, and ſo in this as in other things, by ſucceſſe of time the glorie of Churches increaſed. forged. He had heard that the Chriſtians had a great maſſe of gold and ſiluer, and concealed treaſure, and being exceeding earneſt after it, he ſends p. 313for Laurence, and commaunds him to bring him that money. But where (Campian) was the plate of gold and ſiluer which he brought vntounto the Tyrant? what Cups, veſſels or treaſures did he bewray. The Church did not then abound in wealth, neither had they then ſuch plentie of golden baſons, ſiluer chalices, coſtly hangings, or any other great and pretious treaſure. They had then woodden diſhes, but golden Biſhops and Prieſts; but now (as Boniface ſaid truly) we … golden veſſels, Bonifac. de Conſc. dist. 1. vaſa.woodden Prieſts; neither doth he therein play the Lutheran…, as you play the Papiſt, Campian. Theſe Nimrods & Church-robbers came not out of Luthers ſchoole; thoſe that made greateſt ſpoile of the Church came from you, not vsus.

Againſt this Tyrant you oppoſe Constantine, and make a needleſſe digreſſion in his commendation, rather to fill vp roome, then frame a reaſon. For to what end rehearſe you theſe things; Constantine quieted the Church, was baptized by Siluester Biſhop of Rome, vſed the ſigne of the croſſe, had Helen to his mother, ioyned himſelfe to the Fathers of Nice, commended himſelfe to the prayers of Anthony, choſe the loweſt place in the Synod, ergo, what will you inferre? From this looſe ware cannot you euince your Church to be the true Church, vnleſſe you ſtraine them very violently. Constantin… indeed brought peace vntounto the Church in her moſt troubleſome time, and adorned and honored it with all the preferments and poſſeſſions he could, and ſince his time, as ſhe increaſed in wealth, ſo ſhe decreaſed p. 314in piety. Whereas you ſay, that Constantine ſent for Siluester from Soracte, that he might be baptized by him with our baptiſme, you might better hauehave ſaid, that Siluester was fetcht from heauen to baptize Constantine, for Siluester died many yeares before Constantine was baptized, as is manifeſt out ofuuDVR. You knovv the first of your authors and vvitneſſes was an Arian; and him the rest follovv. WHIT. pag. 881. It is incredible to thinke hee would lie in ſo famous a thing, which might ſo eaſily be proued to the contrarie. And if he had been baptiſed at Rome, as you ſay, it is like the other three would ha… come to the knowledge of it by ſome meanes, & hauehave preferred the credit of the thing, before the lie of Euſebius. As for your witneſſes they are not to be compared with theſe of ours. Euſebius, Socrates, Theodorus, Z…zomen, Euſeb. lib. 4. de vita Conſtant. Socrat. lib. 1. cap. 39. Theodoret. lib. 1. cap. 31 Sozom. lib. 3. cap. 34.who hauehave recorded the baptiſme of Constantine to hauehave been not whiles he was yong, but in his age, not by Siluester of Rome, but by Euſebius of Nicomedia, an Arian Biſhop. Now Siluester was extreame old when Constantine was a yong man. He vſed the ſigne of the croſſe which he had ſeene in the ayre as an Enſigne, declaring himſelfe thereby the ſouldier of Chriſt, and an enemy of Tyrants. But that he worſhipped or adored this croſſe, you ſhall neuer approue. As concerning his**DVR. VVhat can bee ſpoken more fooliſhlie? WHIT. pag. 881. And yet what is my follie, which was not the follie of Euſebius and Sozomen: for Euſebius who was preſent at the ſame Synod, writeth that Constantine in the firſt rancke ſate downe in a golden chaire. And Sozomen ſaith there was a throne prepared for him, and that a great one, and aboue all the other. place in the Councell it skilleth not greatly: for what if he choſe the loweſt ſeate amongſt the Biſhops?Euſeb. lib. 3. de vita Conſtant. Sozom. lib. 2. cap. 19. but you thinke he did it rather forced by neceſſary dutie then moued by voluntarie humilitie: marke then what Euſebius writes. When he was come to the chiefe place, he ſtood vp in the middeſt of the aſſemblie, and there, when a little ſeate made of gold was brought for him, he ſate downe. Heere you ſee that Constantine ſate in the higheſt place, a ſeate of gold, which was the chiefeſt, and aboue all the reſt, as Z…zomen relates. But theſe your proofes are paſſing ſtrange, they ſtrengthen the cauſe of your Pope excellently well.

Now you paſſe forward vntounto the Turks,Turkes. wherein you do too manifeſtly bewray your ignorance in p. 315hiſtorie. For the Turkiſh gouernement neuer leſſe preuailed, then ſince Luther began to publiſh the Goſpell: Before he did ouer-run, and like a troublous ſea breake into all Countries, with a furious and vnreſiſted violence. But ſince Luther like a good husbandman began to ſow the ſeed of the Goſpell, this raging ſea hath as it were retired or ſtood ſtill, and conteined it ſelfe within his owne bounds. Vicuna was kept by the Lutheranes, and aſſaulted by Solyman, but he returned with loſſe and with ſhame; and prooue if you can, that euer the Chriſtians became weake, or the Turks ſtronger by their default. The Letters which you pretend, as written from Solyman to Luther, might with better reaſon hauehave bin ſent to the Pope: for the Turks are beholding to none more then your Pope, as they well know; and vnleſſe they will be vnthankfull, they will euer acknowledge it. For if as our Sauiour Chriſt ſaith, a kingdome diuided againſt it ſelfe cannot ſtand, then the breaking of the ſtrength of the Empire, and weakning the power of Chriſtians, and conſequently ſtrengthning the Turks, all muſt be imputed to him which rent and diuided the Romane and Chriſtian Empires, and of one kingdome made two: As long as the prouinces and dominions of the Empire were vnited, we were ſtrong ynough againſt the Turks; but after Pope Leo the 3. diuided the Empire, the Emperour of Conſtantinople which before had much ado to reſiſt the Turke, was now no longer able to ſuſtaine the burthen, wanting the greateſt part of his Empire. There is then no reaſon why the Turke ſhould thanke Luther, but the Pope rather, as he hath good cauſe. It were too long to rehearſe all the intercourſe which hath paſſed betwixt the Pope and the Turke: let vsus now heare the concluſion. They are (ſay you) onelyonly profeſſed enemies to vsus. Certainely they hauehave infeſted them of the Greeke church more p. 316then the Latine. So that if they be the beſt Chriſtians that are moſt perſecuted by the Turks, the Grecians muſt goe before you. Whereas you adde ſomething of Altars and Images, know you that the Idolatry of your Church is ſo great, that the Turks themſelues are aſhamed, and therefore they breake, and euill intreate your Images and Idols whereſoeuer they find them.

Now you come to Hereticks, the lees, bellowes, Heretikes.and fewell of hell fire. As long as there wants no Papiſts this fire will want no fewell. The firſt you meete with is Simon Magus. Indeed your Church is ſomething more indebted to this Simon then the other: but what of him? He denied freewill vntounto man, and bragged of faith alone. Where finde you that? tell vsus Campian, for this is not affirmed by Ireneus or Clemens in the places alleaged; he thought that all things came to paſſe by deſtinie, and an ineuitable neceſſitie, whereby he vtterly aboliſhed mans freewill:xxDVR. If you be a Caluiniſt, then this muſt needs be your doctrine, when as Caluin had ſo taken avvay all freedome, that he hath brought a neceſſitie greater then Stoickes fate. WHIT. pag. 882. I am a Chriſtian, you a Ieſuite; Caluin, as you wel know, neuer tooke away the freedome of will, vnleſſe you reaſon thus: the will of man is not free in good things, before it be regenerate by the ſpirit of God, therfore there is no freedome of the will at all; which verily hath no ſtrength of conſequent in it. We hold no ſuch opinion. Neither did he boaſt of ſole faith (as you ſay:) but this was his opinion, that from the doctrine of Iuſtification by grace and faith, he let looſe the raines to all impietie & diſhoneſtie: where do we defend any ſuch things? Nouatianus would himſelfe be Biſhop of Rome, and oppoſed himſelfe to Cornelius the lawfull Biſhop, hoping by force to get the Biſhoprick. What is this to vsus? But he was an enemie to the two Sacraments of penance and extreme vnction. yyDVR. It was not for this, but becauſe he tooke away the Sacrament of Penance, in vvhichwhich Priests do pardon ſinne. WHIT. pag. 882. Whether Penance was a Sacrament or no, was not the thing in queſtion betwixt Nouatus and the Catholikes, but whether there was any place for repentance left vntounto thoſe that did ſinne, that the Miniſter might aſſure thē of remiſſion of ſins, if they repēted: we grant that this power is giuē to the Miniſters of the Goſpell; therefore we are far from the error of Nouatus.He denied pardon and repentance to them p. 317that fell in perſecution. Herein he was an enemie of repentance. Our caſe in farre different, which exclude no true penitent from hope of pardon. Manos wholie reiected baptiſme, as vnprofi…able and not neceſſarie. Do we affirme any ſuch thing? WezzDVR. You take from Baptiſme all power to remit ſinnes and confirre grace as the Manic…es doe. And yee Caluiniſts deny that the deed done doth confirre grace to them vvho beleeue. WHIT. pag. 883. We beleeue and teach that in Baptiſme ſins are forgiuen, which the Manichies vſually deny. Therefore we differ much from them. And as for the inuention of the deed done we reiect it, euen in thoſe who are indued with faith, for what neede hauehave wee of any ſuch inuention, that grace is conferred and giuegive… by the deed done, if faith be not wanting? denie (indeed) that baptiſme confers grace to the vnbeleeuer by the worke wrought: he denied it to be profitable at all: are we like him? Austen and Epiphanius accompt Aerius for an Heretick, ſo did few of the auncient Fathers beſides theſe. And if to condemne praiers for the dead, Hierou. ad Euag. & in 1. Tit.and make equall a Prieſt with a Biſhop be hereticall, what ſhall be Catholick? Hierome was altogether of Aerius his mind, about equalitie of Prieſts; for he determines them to be equall with Biſhops by Gods law. This was not that Aerius, Socrat. lib. 2. cap. 35.whom they vſually called Atheiſt, but an other, Aetius; the likenes of the names deceiued you. To that you obiected concerning Vigilantius and Iouinian, an anſwere is formerly giuen;aaDVR. You ſpeake vvit…ilie, but you must of neceſſity do the one. WHIT. pag. 884. If they hauehave defended any thing againſt the Scriptures, they are heretikes; but if not, they cannot bee condemned by the iudgement of any Church. for my part, I neither meane to defend them, nor can I greatly accuſe th…m. If they were hereticks, conuince them of ſome error they held againſt the ſcriptures: Hieromes paſſions can make no man an heretick. Now you bring in the ſwarme of hereticks, Macedonians, Pelagiās, Neſtorians, Eutychians, the M…otholites, and Iconomachs. Theſe firſt we hate as hell it ſelfe; thoſe laſt hauehave committed nothing deſeruing the name of hereticks. To ſet vp and worſhip Images is hereticall, but not to ouerthrow them. What you iudge touching Luther and Caluin… is nothing materiall: whiles they liued they nothing regarded you, now they are dead they deſpiſe you, what will you conclude p. 318at length from this hereticall companie? A… theſe (you ſay) forſooke the gouerment of your Church, and were ouerthrowne by them. Nay Campian, theſe were your forefathers, and you their progenie and ſucceſſors: for your monſter of Poperie hath been hatched by the impure commixtion of all hereſies.

But you now appeare out of hell,Lands. and are come to land, and whereſoeuer you caſt your eyes or thoughts, All is your own (as you ſay) all ſubiect themſelues, and ſubſcribe to your religion. Me thinks I ſee that brainſick Merchant, who ſtanding by the ſea, and beholding the ſhips, cried out, all he ſaw was his owne; otherwiſe ſuch ſenſeleſſe dreames could not proceed, but from a wit and iudgement exceedingly weakned.Sedes Apoſtolica. For (ſay you) the Romane ſucceſſion witneſſeth, in which Church (as Austen ſpeaketh) the Primacie of the Apostolike chaire hath alwaies had the preeminence. Many cauſes there were, why ſpeciall accompt in times paſt ſhould be made of the church of Rome, eſpecially for that Rome was the ſeate of the Empire, as approued in the Councell held at Constantinople. Concil. Conſtantinop. 1. cap. 5.bbDVR. VVhy then may not he that is Biſhop of this Church be ouer all other Biſhops, and ſo the Prince of Priests, the chiefe Priest, and ſupreame head of the reſt? WHIT. pag. 885. Becauſe authoritie and dominion is not proper to them who are more excellēt then others; which may bee ſhewed by infinite examples. Who can be ignorant that the tribe of Iudah was the chiefe, the firſt and the Prince of the other tribes? will it therefore follow that the head of the principall family in this tribe had authoritie ouer all other tribes? Ariſtotle was accounted the prince of Philoſophers, Homer of Poets, Hippocrates of Phyſitians, Apelles of Painters: did they therefore exerciſe authoritie ouer all the reſt of the ſame profeſſion? So though for a long time together the church of Rome for many reſpects was excellent among the reſt, yet it neuer had domination and rule ouer the reſt of the Churches of Chriſt.I graunt therefore tha… …his Church was accompted the ſupreme, chiefe, greateſt, and the principall, preferred before other Churches. Trow you hence to conclude, the Biſhop of Rome is the chiefe and principall Biſhop or head of the Church?Concil. Carthag. 3. cap. 26. Diſt. 99 prima ſedis. Austen himſelfe forbid it in the Councell of Carthage, viz. that the Biſhop of the chiefe Sea ſhould not be called Prince of Priests, or any like title. Although then the holy Fathers for diuers reſpects gaue the preheminence to the church of Rome, yet p. 319…d they neuer acknowledgeccDVR. This prohibition was giuen by the Fathers, becauſe they knew that a… the ſoueraignty of the Apoſtolike Chaire did euer flouriſh in the Romane Church, ſo they did not doubt but the manner of the chiefe Prieſt did appertain… onelyonly to the Biſhop of Rome. WHIT. pag. 885. Nay, the proh…bition of the Councell did as well concerne the Biſhop of Rome, whom all acknowledge to be the Biſhop of the chiefe ſeate, as the Biſhops of other Seas. Therefore for the time he obeyed the decree of the Councell, and was content with his names and refuſed to be called the ſoueraigne chiefe Prieſt. that infinite p… …ll authority which he now challengeth, neither …d other Apoſtolike Churches, whether they were founded by the Apostles themſelues, or by ſome of their ſchollers, yeeld any teſtimonie of truth to the church of Rome. Heere you ſtick in a quagmire, and …e faine by intreatie to beg that which by ſtrong reaſon you ſhould prooue and cannot.

But you vrge further, and recompt the Paſtors of ſeuerall countries, to wha… end I pray you. The remainder…, ſay you, of the labours of all thoſe that hauehave publiſhed the Gospell in all nations farrs and wide, all, preſent vntounto vsus this ſame religion which Cathol…kes at this day profeſſe. What could be affirmed more weakely? for the Greeians are oppoſite vntounto you, which vntounto this time hauehave their ſucceſſion of Biſhops not interrupted. And further, the ſpye… which you ſend in your new found lands, hauehave found in the furtheſt coaſts thereof many monuments of that faith which we mainteine,Oſ…rius. neither may you preferre vsus before them, at leaſt afore all, you ought to preferre the truth,Aristot. as the Philoſopher ſaith. But if you thinke your Popes and other glorious titles more auncient then the Goſpell, what can you alleage why Chriſt ſhould not denie you to belong to him, ſeeing you value any thing more then him. Heere you tell vsus of Princes, Princes.Kings, C…ſars, Emperours, and make a goodly ſhew of names, as your manner is. At length you mētion our noble Queen… Elizabeth, and will needs teach her, her dutie. But ſhe, Campian, needs no ſuch Maſters, …ſay 48.or inſtructiors. She knoweth her ſelfe to be the nurſing mother of the Church, and that by diuine diſpenſation, and accordingly doth ſhe with all watchfulnes and care procure the good thereof, and labours by all poſſible diligence to preuent all dangers intended by you and your adherents. You ſay of Caluine and theſe Princes, … you hauehave ſpoken, th… … heauen can no… containe thē. But it paſſe…h your skill to pronounce certainely hereof, nay your Pope himſelfe cannot with all his might pull Calui… out of heauen, not any of them whom Chriſt hath made witneſſes of his truth. As for you and your fellowes, we wiſh you not the gallowes, but ſaluation. I deſire to hope the beſt of you; and I doubt not but you might attaine to the knowledge of the truth in controuerſie betwixt vsus, if for the time you could lay aſide all preiudicate opinions, and conſult with the word of God, and the holy Fathers of the Church. As for the ſocietie of Ieſus, whereunto you are admitted, it braggeth that it is wholie at the Popes diſpenſation, and loues Gregory the 13. too well, to louelove Queene Elizabeth any thing at all, who is ſo farre differing from him.Nations conuerted to Chriſt. You proceed, and produce the vtmoſt coaſts and countries of the world to testifie for you: you ſhould diſtinguiſh auncient and later times. For graunt that the whole world had conſpired with the Pope againſt Chriſt (which it hath not) that is no aduantage to you, nor preiudice to vsus:ddDVR. You had ſpoken better, if you had ſaid that he forſakes the Goſpell, who affirmeth that the whole world conſpire… against Christ. O miſerable Caluiniſts, who cannot defend their ſaith otherwiſe, than by bereauing Christ of his kingdome, and the whole christian world of faith! WHIT. pag. 886. This is very true you ſay: but Duraeus, did we euer ſpeak after this manner? Will you keepe your cuſtome of rayling and ſlaundering▪ euen to the laſt act? Nay rather, O miſerable Duraeus, who blinded with malice and ignorance, doth not feele your owne miſerie? Not the whole world, but your Synagogue which is but a ſmall part of the whole world, hath conſpired againſt Chriſt. And is it to be feared, leaſt Chriſt ſhould looſe his kingdome, and the world faith, if your ſhaueling with his whole rabble fall frō the Goſpell? Though you be perfidious and wicked, yet God will remaine alwaies faithfull and true. whoſoeuer forſakes the Goſpell, he is neceſſarily diuided from the Church. To put to ſilence the oracles of the heathen Idols, and carry the name of Chriſt vntounto the Gentiles, was no doubt a great worke, and a diuine worke: but that is none of your worke, for you hauehave filled the world with Idols, and as much as in you lay, ouerturned p. 321the kingdome of Chriſt. The Idols of the he…en hauehave been o…e…owne, and the kingdome of God enlarged by the Apostles and Apostolike men; …e …e o…e Papiſt, or one Ieſ…ite amongſt theſe. For the Ieſuites, which aſſay to make new kingdomes amongſt the Indians, ſerue not Chriſt, but the Pope: not do they enlarge the kingdome of Chriſt, but they prepare for the Pope a kingdome farre from the Lutheranes, where he may raigne after he ſhall be baniſhed from theſe countries.ccDVR. You ſet vponupon our ſocietie, and ſay vve hauehave diuided Chriſt. Becauſe certeine men hauehave choſen vntounto them this name aboue all others, to be accounted of the ſocietie of Ieſus; becauſe they hauehave conſecrated thēſelues wholy to aduance this name, muſt they therefore of neceſſitie diuide Chriſt? hauehave not you Chriſt Colledge in Oxford? WHIT. pag. 8…6. I will not ſtriue much with you about your ſocietie, of which I …e very ſmall account. If you hauehave for ſome ſpeciall conſideration dedicated your ſelues vntounto Chriſt, what is that conſideration? why doe you not tell vsus what Ieſus requireth of you, which all other Chriſtians are not bound to doe? If the order of your profeſsion require that you propagate honour, and magnifie the name Ieſus, if for this all Chriſtians ought not to labour, at leaſt Biſhops, and ſpecially your Pope: and if they be Ieſ…ites who doe this, why …re not all your Diuines, Biſhops, Cardinals, and Popes Ieſuites? It may bee this care is …arre from them. Whereas then name… are for diſtinguiſhing of things, they be needleſſe and vaine, when there i… no difference in the thing. Either ſhew vsus what is the proper & peculier duties of Ieſuits, or confeſſe that without any cauſe you hauehave app…opriated ſuch a …me vntounto thē. In Cambridge aſwell …s in Oxford we hauehave both Chriſt and Ieſus Colledge: but they that li…e in thoſe Colledges are called onelyonly Chriſtians. Thinke you that becauſe there are many Colledge… different in names, there are many differēt Orders & profeſsions of men? In places diſtinctions of names are neceſſarie and without danger, vnleſſe ſome ſchiſme may happē betwixt y^• w…ls. HaueHave you no other thing to ſay for your ſect & ſocietie? You aske, is Chriſt diuided? I anſwere, you Ieſuites hauehave diuided him, els why hauehave you ſeparated Ieſus from Chriſt, and leauing the auncient ordinary names of Chriſtians, which you ſcorne as too common, you deſire rather to be called Ieſuites, a new name of your owne framing, then Chriſtians? As though there were ſome ſocietie of Ieſus appropriated to one kind of men ſeparated from other Chriſtians; If there be, then is Chriſt deuided, if not, then you Ieſuites are too impudent to deuiſe a new ſocietie.

You ſay either we or he preach a wrong Chriſt. This p. 322of neceſſitie muſt be ſo. But Luther preached the true Chriſt, ſtorme the Pope neuer ſo much: looke then what Ieſus, what Chriſt you hauehave amongſt you? the true Chriſt it is not. I beſeech you, Campian, for Chriſtes ſake conſider well whom you hauehave forſaken, to whome you hauehave betaken you, into what danger you hauehave caſt your ſelfe. But you will tell vsus who is the true Chriſt, I liſten to heare it: let him b… true Chriſt, and on their ſide, by whoſe bringing in Dagons neck was broken. With a good will. Chriſt by vsus preached, hath within theſe few yeares throwne downe an infinite ſort of your Dagons: for ſo ſoone as Chriſt accompanied with his Goſpell got footing in any place, your Dagons out of hand fell downe, and had not only their armes and legs broken, but necks alſo. Patrick in Ireland, and Palladius in Scotland, what they were I meane not to ſearch. We Engliſhmen, I graunt, receiued much good by Auſten the Monke, and much euill alſo and ſuperſtition which he brought in with him. It is plaine that we had receiued the Chriſtian faith in Brittany many ages before his comming hither. How it was by him increaſed or hindred, I will not ſay. But he liued ſixe hundred yeares after Chriſt; which as I iudge was not the pureſt time of the Church, but as others affirme, the age was moſt corrupt.

Now to conclude, becauſe to proſecute all were infinite, you gather a heape of witneſſes together, the Vniuerſities, written lawes, the common faſhions of all people, choyce of Emperours, kingly rites, orders of Knighthood, habites, church windowes, coines, gates, houſes, all things great and ſmall, vntounto all which I anſwere in a word, if an Angell from heauen ſhould preach vntounto vsus an other Goſpell then that which Chriſt hath taught, the Apoſtles publiſhed, our Churches now profeſſe, we would reiect and deteſt it, much leſſe do we ſtand vponupon theſe toyes of yours, p. 323and ma…ers of …o…om…nt. The floriſhing Vniuerſitie…, auncient law…, and i… all kinds, monuments of great antiquitie, all theſe afford vntounto vsus an open teſtimonie of the truth we profeſſe. Thus hauehave we heard your ten-fold Apollogy, wherein I perceiue you hauehave beſtowed no ſmall diligence; how you hauehave therein preuailed, I leaue the iudgement to others. If you hauehave ſatisfied none more therein then our Vniuerſitie men, I can aſſure you, you hauehave loſt your labour, and are diſappointed of your hope. For my owne part though in this caſe I profeſſe my ſelfe your aduerſary, yet your perſon (Campian) I louelove as farre as a Chriſtian may louelove a Ieſuite. And I pray God the Father of Ieſus Chriſt, that he would open the eyes of your mind, and direct you in his waies, leaſt you caſt away that ſilly ſoule ſo deerely bought which you deſire to ſaue. Therefore leaue off to reſiſt the truth, and wittingly to …ick againſt the prick, you cannot by force ſtop the waues of the ſea, you cannot darken the beames of the ſunne, nor reſtraine the arme of God. Falſhood driuen back ſhall giuegive place, and truth at the length (reſiſt while you will) ſhall hauehave the victorie.