Exposition of the Apostles Creed, Dialogue 1
¶ In this fyrſt dialoge is ſhewed how the Soueraigne goodnes & felicitie of mā lieth in the knowledge of God, & in the Iuſtificatiō by ye faith in Ieſu chriſt.
¶ The names of the two ſpeakers.
❧ Phylype.
❧ Nathanaell.
PHyllype.
I can not inoughe maruayle when I do conſidre the nature and condition of men.
Nathanael.
Wherefore ſaieſt thou that?
Phylip-
Becauſe that I do ſe that all mē hauehave one deſire & one ſelfe will and mind, yet neuertheles there is nothynge more contrarie then the deſyres and wylles of menne after ſuche ſorte that wyth greate difficultie may be found two that be of one ſelfe accord.
Nathanaell.
Howe can that be poſſible to be founde amonge men as thou doeſt ſaye? for thou haſte holden me two argumētes the Contrarietie and vnitie of humayne affections.whiche be cōtrarye and repungnaunt the one to the other, for howe can menne be all of one ſelfe wyll and of a contrary wyll, and all of one accord being al in diſcorde.
Phy.
I thynke thou doeſt not doubte of the diuerſitie & cōtrarietie of affectiōs willes & humayne opiniōs, for ther is nothyng more euidente, wherfore it ſuffiſeth me to ſhewe vntounto the the vnitie of the deſyres and wylles that is betwen them.
Natha.
When thou haſte proued me that, I ſhal holde the other for all togyther proued, for the daylye experience doeth beare wytnes hereof.
Phy.
I wyl that thy ſelfe be Iudge of the cauſe, wherfore I do aſke the if there be anye man vponupon the earth whyche doeth not deſyre and hath not a greate wyll to be ryche The cōmune deſire of alm…to come to honour to lyue in pleaſure & reſte and to be verie happy.
Natha.
in that there is no doubte.
Phy.
Myne entente is alredy proued for thou doeſte ſe the vnitie of the hertes that is betwe… them.
Natha.
It is true but from whenſe then commeth that contrarietie: or howe can that procede of that vnitie?
Phy.
Al the faute doth come of this, that although al do pretende vntounto one ſelfe ende, neuertheles they can not learne the cunnynge nor the waye to come vntounto it.
Natha.
Thou wylte then ſaye that the wyll is in all men, but the power and the meane doth fayle them.
Phy.
We ſe the thynge at oure eye.
Natha.
And what is the cauſe.
Phy.
The hardnes and ignoraunce of the humayne vnderſtādynge for one eſtemeth him rich & veri happy that hath great treaſures of gold, ſiluer, perles, & precious Mens opinions of the ſouerning goodnes.ſtones, & that hath his garners houſes & ſellers wel filled, which hath goodli clothing & may be veri ſumptuous & pōpiouſly appareled which is poſſeſſor of great cōtreys lādes & lordſhipes,
Na.
There is nothyng in al the world that mē eſteme ſo much as that whych thou ſpeakeſt of. And that after ſuche ſorte that euerye one woulde hauehave that.
Phy.
And therfore of thys accorde cometh thys greate diſcorde that is amonge men for The rote of …iſſencion a…onge men.bycauſe that all woulde hauehave it, and do not care howe ſo they maye obteyne it, one takeyng one way & meanes, & an other taketh an other waye cleane contrarye, wherefore it is impoſſible that one ſhoulde not de wronge & Iniurye to an other, and frome thenſe doeth ſprynge no ſmall enuious hatredes, enmites and diſſentions.
Na.
The thynge is euen as thou ſayeſt.
Phy.
Admytte that a man hadde obteyned all thys, myght he therefore thynke hym ſelfe very happy.
Nata.
None can be truli takē for happi in this mortal life, which is altogither ful of miſeries, and in the which the moſte ryche be the moſte miſerable & wreched for they hauehave more thought care, trouble, and anoyaunces, and be in more greater dangers thē any other, & it is moſt oftē ſene that, that whyche they hauehave, is no more theyrs, thē that whyche they hauehave not, for bycauſe them ſelues moſt often eyther dare not, or can not vſe them but let vsus take the caſe that they ſhould receyue certayne cōmodities of them in thys lyfe. Yet be they aſſured that all theyr ryches ſhall fayle them at theyr neade and greateſt neceſſitie, for they ſhall not beare them wyth them, nor yet ſhal they deliuer thē from death nor frome the Iudgmente of God but ſhall leaue them to ſuche as ſhall neuer run them thanke, but ſhall brynge them vntounto ruyne & ſhall hauehave as moche payne and miſerie in the ſpendynge, as they had in the gatherynge.
Phy.
That thou haſte ſayed is verye cōmon and cleare, but I do conſydre an other thynge that is, that man for all theſe thynges hathe not here ſo muche occaſion to glorye in hym ſelfe, or to thynke hym ſelfe verye happye as The beaſtes are more happie thē carnal men.the bruite beaſtes, for they hauehave all thys better then man, and hauehave mo voluptuous pleaſures in thys worlde then he, if we do eſteme voluptuous pleaſures the carnall pleaſures of thys world, the philoſophors eſtemed hym ryche whyche was contente.
Then accordynge to thys diffinition the beaſtes be rycher then men, for they be contente wyth that they hauehave. But man is neuer contente, no thoughe he had the heauen and the earth, to what purpoſe ſerueth hym then hys golde and ſyluer? the beaſtes hauehave none nor care not for it, nor yet hauehave no nede of it And if we muſte eſteme hym ryche & happye that hathe abundaunce we muſte gyue that honor vntounto the earth the whyche hath more then all men in the worlde. And to the whyche they muſte come to begge it makynge it courtlye courtelye wyth longe trauayle and greate diligence in tyllage who then oughte to be eſtemed mooſte ryche? The earth that gyueth all or the men that receiue of hyr.
Nathanaell.
He that gyueth is more happy and ryche thē he that taketh for the one apperteyneth vntounto greate prynces and Lordes, and the other vntounto wreches and fylbelyes. But nowe adayes we hauehave no regarde vntounto that rule but do eſteme it more happy to take then to gyue. And therefore they be eſtemed moſte riche and happy that moſt receiueth of the earth.
Phy.
And yet by thys rekeninge ſhall the beaſtes be rycher then men, for take the mooſte ryches that thou wylt & gyue vntounto him meddowes, paſtours, and vines, Caſtels, houſes, and palaces, and al that hys herte can deſyre. What hath he yet more then the beaſtes? For if thou wylte ſaye lodgynges they hauehave all theyr repayres, ſome to Caues other to buſſhes, & other to theyr …eaſtes, where they take all ſlepe and reſte in muche more quietnes thē men, and muche better contented then menne be wyth theyr habitations, And it we muſte ſpeake of landes and poſſeſſions the beaſtes hauehave it without limities or borders, for they hauehave the hylles, & valeis foreſtes, & plaines, the ayre & waters, at theyr commaundemēte, wyth leſſe trouble payne and laboure then man, for thoughe man hauehave greate medowes yet eaſeth he no hey, and thoughe he hauehave greate fyldes and viniyardes, yet can he eate but hys fylle, and can hauehave but hys lyfe, no more then the beaſtes of the fylde, whyche ſurmounteth manne in felicitie, in aſmuche as they get theyr lynynges wyth more corporall pleaſures. If we ſhall come to apparell there is no compariſon, for of neceſſitie the Beaſtes muſte clothe men, whych ſhould be all naked, excepte they dyd borowe theyr apparell of them, and dyd clothe them ſilues wyth theyr ſkynes heare, and woolles there is no difference but that menne hauehave more trauayle to clothe them ſelues bycauſe they be not contente wyth the gyftes and worckes of nature, as the beaſtes be, but wyll be diſguyſed & counterfayte newes by theyr artes and occupations, but not wythout greate ſweate.
And whē they hauehave done al that they cā poſſible do, yet can they not exceade or ſurmounte the workes of nature that be in the beaſtes and floures in the fylde, for there is neyther courtyer nor ladye, nor damſell that is better paynted, nor ſo well dreſſed or appareled, as a roſe, a lylye, or as the leſt flower that the earth bringeth forthe, nor as the marternes, Oſtriges, Pecokes, & other ſuche like Beaſtes and foules, and yet do they muche glorye when they maye be decked and trimned wyth theyr heare ſkinnes and fethers.
Nathanaell.
Yea and yet bye them verye deare.
Phy,
Thou maiſt thē wel know what is the miſerie of man, euen in the the ſame wherein he doeth eſteme hys moſte greateſt felicitie to lye. Thou mayeſt alſo vnderſtande how that of thys euyll opinion doth ſprynge ſo many other, the whyche do put ſuche troubles betwen men and doth bring them in ſuch franiſeis that they can not holde them ſelues with in the limites of nature, but do rather worſe then the brute beaſtes, and yet wyth all theyr trauayle can not hauehave ſo muche reſte and voluptuous pleaſures as they. Wherefore I do conclude that if man were not borne vntounto other Beatitude and Felicitie then doeth lye in riches and worldly pleaſures, that he were in far worſſe condition then the brute beaſtes and that he ſhoulde be much more happy to be a ſwyne, a ſnayle, a fyſhe, a byrde, or ſome other kynde of beaſtes then to be a man.
Nata.
I am of thyne opinion and am muche abaſhed that the chriſtians do not well know and conſidre thys, and howe that they runne ſo madde after theſe goodes of the earth and worldely luſtes: ſeynge that the panymes and heathen euen by the naturall lyghte geuen them of God hauehave well knowen & hauehave condemned the Epicures, whyche put the ſoueraine goodneſſe of man in voluptuouſnes.
Phy.
And yet they whyche dyd condemne the Epicures albeit they hadde a better opinion then they, yet coulde not they them ſelues Epicures.fynde the pathe and ryghte waye for to come vntounto thys ſoueraine goodnes, vntounto the whyche they dyd pretende to conducte and leade other for ſome of them dyd Iudge that thys ſouerayne goodnes coulde not be but in hym that was fullye endued wyth the gooddes of fortune of the bodye and of the ſoule, whyche to fynde in anye one man it were verye harde. And by thys doctrine the prophettes Thre kyndes of godneſſe.Apoſtles, and true childrē of God ſhould not be verye happye and bleſſed, and the doctrine of Ieſu Chriſt ſhould not be true, which doth pronounce happy and bleſſed, the poore in ſpirite, the aflicted and perſecuted for ryghtuouſnes ſake, and they whyche hauehave honger thriſte, and whych wepe and morne.
Na.
Therefore there be other that hauehave put Math. v. Luke. vi.the ſouerayne goodnes of man in vertu.
Phy.
Thoſe hauehave well perceyued and felte the inconueniences whych I hauehave before touched, but for all that they coulde not hytt the whytte, for they dyd neuer well vnderſtand what was the true vertu that might leade vntounto that ſoueraigne goodneſſe, and wyth great paine did they onelyonly atteine vntounto the ſhadow and coulde not fynde the verye ryghte waye The ſoueraine goodneſſe of men.to leade them for they dyd alwaye leaue a mā vntounto hym ſelfe, the whyche can in no wyſe fynde that ſame ſoueraygne goodnes, except he go out of hym ſelfe.
Natha.
where wylte thou then that he ſhall ſeke it.
Phylippe.
Out of hym ſelfe and of al creatures.
Nata.
Thou wilt thē that he go ſeke it in God.
Phyly.
In whom ſhoulde he fynde it but in him, in whō not only it is but is him ſelfe that ſame ſoueraygne goodnes, for thou doeſt knowe well that man is infaſiable and that he can neuer be contente and ſatiſfied excepte he hauehave all And thoughe he had the heauen and the earth the ſea, and all that is conteyned in them, yet ſhoulde he not be ſatiſfied and fylled. For he ſhould not therby hauehave al, for he can not hauehave al except he hauehave God to whō al thinges perteyne and be hys owne, in the whyche onelyonly he may be ſatiſfied and perfecte accordynge to the teſtimonie of the prophete ſaying, then Pſal. xvi.ſhal I be filled whē thy glorye appeareth for without hym what maye we fynde, but vnhappines, ſynne, Death, malediction, dānation & hell.
Nata.
I beleue that nowe thou haſt hyt the whyte, but the hardeſte is yet to do for it doth not ſuffice to know vntounto what plac & ende we ought to go, nor yet in what hauen or port we deſire to arriue, excepte we knowe the meane waie to come vntounto it, wherefore I deſire muche that if thou knowe it that thou wilt teache it me.
Phy.
It is neceſſarie that he knowe it that ſhould teach it vntounto other, and there is none that can knowe it but he that hath bene there and gone the Iorney.
Natha.
There is thē no liuynge man that can know it,
Phy.
And therfore muſte we hauehave recourſe The waye to come to ſoueraynge goodnes.vntounto God, whyche wyll gyue vsus a guide to leade vsus and hathe all readye gyuen vsus one whyche can neuer go out of the waye, that is Ieſus Chriſte hys ſunne oure Soueraygne maiſter whyche is come downe from heauen for to learne vsus the waye, and brynge vsus thither, Mat. xxiii. xi.for as he hym ſelfe wytneſſeth that none can aſcend vp into heauen, but he that is come Iohn. iii. Iohn. ix. Iohn. i. The lader of Iacob. Gene. xxviii.down from heauen, namely the ſonne of mā that is in heauen, none can come vntounto my father but b…me, I am the gate the dore, the wai the trueth and the lyte, he is the true ladder that Iacob ſawe ſtandynge vponupon the earth & reached vp to heauen. The angelles of God goinge vp & downe vpō it, and the Lord god leaninge vponupon it, but for to make vsus the waie ſhorter, playner, & more eſie he hath brought Deut. iii. Rom. i.vsus the heauens with hym ſelfe, and that ſame ſoueraygne goodnes in ſuche ſorte, that we nede not to pas the ſeas nor the mountaines, nor to go any longe waye or Iorney to come vntounto it, & neade not to go out of oure ſelues, Ephe. iiii. Colo. iii. Math. iii. Luke. xvii.but of oure olde adam, for the kyngdome of heauē is at hande, and the kingdome of God is within vsus, we hauehave the worde neare vsus & in our mouthes if we can know it.
Na.
How …hē
Phy.
The maiſter whyche is deſcended from heauen, and that ſouerayne doctor whych the celeſtiall father hath ſente vntounto vsus doth teach vsus thys ſciēce in two wordes ſayinge. Thys is the lyfe euerlaſtynge. That they do knowledge the one onelyonly true God, and hym whōe he hath ſente Ieſus Chriſte.
Na.
Then wylte …noledge of God.then by that conclud that the ſouerayne goodnes of manne, and his true felicitie and beatitude, and the meane to vnite and knyte all mē in one ſelfe herte, and one verye wyll is to knowe God by Ieſus Chriſte hys ſonne.
Phy.
Thou concludeſt verye well.
Nata.
If there neede none other thynge at the leſte, all the chriſtians ſhould be verye happie for they do all knowe God and Ieſus Chriſte theyr Sauiour, but it is neuertheles maruayle that there is ſo lyttle vnitie amonge them, ſeynge they hauehave all that knoweledge.
Phy.
If they had that knoweledge wythout doubt thei ſhould be al of one accord & ſhould be verye happye and bleſſed, but there be very fewe that hath that knowledge as it ſhuld be had.
Nata.
Is there thē. ii. ſortes, to know God?
Phy.
Euen as there is two ſortes to beleue. Two ſortes to knowe and beleue God.For to beleue in God, and knowe God, cometh all to one. Saynte Iames doeth ſaye that the Deuyles beleue and tremble before the maieſtie of God. But they beleue not in …mes. ii.ſuche ſorte, as the faythfull children of God do. They beleue there is a God, and do feare hym, but not as the good chylde feareth hys father, but as an euyl doer … Iudge Notwithſtandynge alſo they do beleue ther is one God, yet beleue they not God is their God, that is to ſaye, that he is theyr Sauioure and father, readye, benigne fauorable and mercifull, and that he wyll ſhewe vntounto them hys grace and mercy thorow his ſonne Ieſus Chriſte, for ſo is the nature of God, & hys propre office. And he that knoweth hym not ſo, knoweth hym not to be hys God, but doeth hold him as a cruel tyraunte the which he doeth more feare then louelove, for we can not knowe him to be other without Ieſu Chriſt, becauſe that the euil cōſciēce which doth fele it ſelfe culpable of hys Iudgm…t cauſeth him ſo to repute hym, wherefore it is impoſſible that any ſhoulde hauehave the true knowledge of God, ſuche as is required to come vntounto thys ſoueraygne goodnes, but he that hathe hym in cōtemplation, not in hym ſelfe nor in him The true knowledg of Godto be cōſidered barely, & in his maieſtie, nor in anye other habite then in this humaine fleſhe whyche he hath put on by hys ſoone Ieſus Chriſte, in the whyche he hathe declared hys goodnes, louelove, merciemercy, and tauoure, towards man, and it is not poſſible that he that knoweth hym otherwiſe ſhoulde louelove hym, if he louelove him not, he cā not willingly honour him …or yet promp…lye and redelye obey hym bycauſe the knowledge that he hath is to muche vnperfecte, for this is the true knowledg that doeth moue and enduce man to honour hym.
Natha.
And what is the true waye and maner to honour God, wyll he that we offre vntounto hym, breade, wyne, candels, or money, calues, ſheepe, rammes, or other ſuche lyke thynges?
Phy.
That were a greate blaſphemie & ſacrilege to hauehave ſuche an opinion of God as to thynke that he whych hath made all thynges of whoſe hande we receyue all, whyche is immortall, incorruptible, and in hym ſelfe whole and perfecte, ſhould neade or take pleaſure i. Timo. ii.in theſe corruptible thynges whyche he hath giuen vsus for the ſuſtinaunce of our pore mortall bodyes.
Natha.
Howe wylt thou then that man ſhall pſal. Cxxxv. Gene. i. Pſal. xvſerue God? And wyth what offering wil he that we preſent him?
Philip.
God which hath made the ſun, the moone, and the ſters, what neede hath he of our light, he which onelyonly is rich and perfect, what nede hath he of our rycheſſe, the which he him ſelfe hath gyuen vntounto vsus, is he as a litle chylde, whych muſt be appeaſed wyth an apple, or as a mortall or corruptilbe man taking pleaſure in caducte and tranſitorie thynges as mē do?
Natha.
What is it thē that mā may giuegive vntounto him?
Phi.
He requireth not that man ſhoulde gyue hym any thyng, but that he ſhoulde receiue of hym for the nature of God is) which our ſoueraine Lord is) not to take but for to gyue, & do good vntounto all.
Natha.
Wherewith ſhall man then ſerue him.
Phi.
He can do no other ſeruice vntounto God, then doeth the pore begger, blind, ſoore, lame, and lazer, and beynge all togyther vnprofitable, aſkinge hys almes at the gate of a kynge, or as an euyl doer, thefe, traytour, and robber, aſkynge hys pardon.
Natha.
Manne then hath no greate occaſion to glorye in hys owne merittes.
Phy.
And yet leſſe.
Nathana.
Can man do nothynge els?
Phy.
He neyther can nor may do that without the grace of god and his holy ſpirite do leade and cōducte him to the ende he ſhoulde hauehave no matter wherein to glorye, but in God onelyonly.
Natha.
That is not verye vneaſye to do, nor ther is no man vntounto whome it ſhoulde not be eaſye ynoughe to ſerue hym, ſeynge we muſte but aſke and begge.
Phy.
It is more harde then it ſeme the for albeit that the wordes ſeme verye playne and eaſy, neuertheles they comprehēde great thynges, the whych ſurmounte the humayne power
Natha.
Expound me then thoſe thynges.
Phy.
Fyrſt they do conteyne the inuoucation, & callyng vponupon the name of God, which is the moſte greateſte and moſte ſinguler honour that we can do vntounto him.
Natha.
What is there more.
Phy.
We can not vnderſtād this inuocation wythout fayth for it is wrytten, who ſo euer calleth vpō the name of the Lorde ſhalbe ſaued. But howe ſhall he call vponupon hym, in whom he hath not beleued, it doeth then followe, that man can not call vponupon God ryghtly wythout truſteyng in him, & be fully aſſured of his goodnes & good wyll towardes hym,
Natha.
That is verye certayne.
Phylyp.
Then as thys ſame truſte in God incite the and enduce the Gyuynge of thankes.man to call vponupon hys name, and praye vntounto hym in al neceſſities, euē ſo of the other parte doth it moue and enduce by the ſame to gyue thankes for all the benifites whyche he receyueth of hym, knowlegynge that all goodnes proceadeth of him, and that without hym mā is nothynge. Here is thē an other parte of the inuocation and callynge vponupon the name of God the whyche conteyneth the obeyſaunce or obeydience, whyche we owe vntounto hys holy wyll, whyche is a maner of action of graces or geuyng of thankes, for from whence doth procede ſuche obeyſaunce, and all the good workes whyche the fayethfull can do in the honour of God, then from the louelove whyche he doth beare vntounto him, and it can not be louelove without the knowledg of him that is beloued this louelove then proceadeth of the knowledge the whyche he hath of God, & of hys graces and benefites whych doth incite vsus patiently to put our truſte al wholly in hym to abide & looke for al at hys hand and to ſerue and honoure hym in all that we maye know… to be pleaſynge and acceptable vntounto hym.
Natha.
True ſeruing of God lieth in faythBy all that I can comprehende and vnderſtand al the ſeruice of God thē lyeth in fayth
Phy.
She is the fundation and ſprynge for wythout hyr it is impoſſible to pleaſe God, & ſo can oure workes not pleaſe God, excepte Hebr. xi.that fyrſte we be pleaſaunte and agreable vntounto hym, for he doeth not accepte the worke bicauſe of it ſelfe, but bicauſe of the perſone …hat doeth preſent it, and it is not vntounto hym acceptable, but as the perſone is vntounto hym acceptable.
Natha.
He hathe then a reſpecte and is an acceptor of perſones, & yet it ſemeth that the holy ſcripture ſaieth the cōtrarie.
Phy.
That whiche I do ſay is not cōtrarie vntounto the places whch thou ſo vnderſtādeſt, but thou ſhouldeſt vnderſtande that amonges the ſonnes of men there is none, whyche of hym ſelfe is acceptable Rom. ii…. Act. x.vntounto the celeſtial father, but only he of whom he hath ſaied. This is my welbeloued ſonne in whome I am well pleaſed. Seynge then that he onelye is pleaſaunte, vntounto hym it is not to be thought, that anye worck… Math. xiii.can pleaſe hym, but that whyche is done by hym, for if we hated any perſone he could do nothynge that mighte pleaſe vsus, and of the cō trarye parte if we loued hym, he could do nothyng that might diſpleaſe vsus but we would take all that he dyd in good parte, if we wyll then pleaſe our celeſtiall father, we muſt neither off…e our ſelues, nor none other thynge to hym, before we hauehave made appoyntmente wyth h…m, and he receiued vsus into hys grace fauour & louelove, & that cā we not obteine except we take awaye the cauſe whyche hath put the hate and diſſention betwen vsus and hym that is to ſaye, the ſynne whyche can not be defaced Eſaie. iiii. Iuſtification Act. xv. Rom. vi. xii. i Cor. xii. Ephe. v. Iohn. vi. xii.and taken awaye, but by the meane of Ieſus Chriſte. And therefore it is neceſſarie for vsus to go vntounto hym to be purged and made cleane, and the meane to obteine thys by him is the fayeth by the whyche our hert…s be purified and we Iuſtified, that is to ſay abſolued, and declared and pronounced Iuſte before the iudgemente of God, bycauſe that by the ſame fayeth we be vnite and conioyned wyth Ieſus Chriſte beynge all membres of hys bodye, vntounto the whyche hys membres he doeth communicate all hys goodes, and i. Cor. i. Ephe. ii. Gala. ii. The rote of … good workes Iohn. v. Rom. ximaketh vsus partakers of hys obeydience and ryghtuouſnes, ſo that it ſerueth nother more nor leſſe, then if it were oure owne propre, Inaſmuche then as Ieſus Chriſte is in vsus and we in hym, & that hys rightuouſnes is ours and liueth in vsus and dwelleth in oure hertes by fayeth, and by hys holye ſpirite, it is very certayne that, that fayth can not be idle without bryngynge forthe good fruite, ſeyng thē that he is the true vyne, and good olyue tree, vponupon the whyche we be planted and graffed it is impoſſible, but the fruite which we beare or bryng forth, and the worke whyche we do ſhoulde not be to hym acceptable becauſe of the good rote out of the whyche they ſpryng, and bicauſe the celeſtiall father reknowledgeth the worke of hys ſonne in vsus for whoſe louelove he doeth beare the imperfection, whyche abydeth al wayes in oure fleſhe durynge thys mortal life, but it is cleane cōtrarie of the Infidels and reproued whyche can not be acceptable vntounto God, nor no workes that they can do bycauſe they be wythout Ieſus Chriſte, without whō non cā be beloued of the father.
Nathana.
I do vnderſtande nowe the cauſe whye the holye ſcripture doeth attribute the Iuſtification of man vntounto fayeth, and giuegive it ſo great prayſes, and who ſo euer vnderſtode thys poynte as thou haſte declared it, ſhould hauehave no occaſion to be ſo much offended with thys doctrine, as ſome be, for they ſaye, when the Iuſtification of fayeth is preached wythout Sclaunder o… Iuſtification by fayth.the workes of the lawe, that they wyll aboliſh and put awaye good workes.
Phylype.
They vnderſtande verye euyl, but that ſclaunder doeth come of the doctryne of the Sophyſters and hypocrites whyche hath learned menne to put the wayne before the oxē, (as ye prouerbe goeth) & to builde without fundation, wherefore when they ſhoulde be reformed and otherwyſe taught they do find it a newe and ſtrange doctrine bycauſe they hauehave bene noriſhed in ſuche a contrarye way.
Natha.
Tell me thys ſome thyng more clearlye. The tre can not beare good fruite except Math. xii.it be fyrſte a good tre. And therfore the good fruite doeth not make the tre good, but the good tree makethe the fruite good, but they wyll hauehave the fruite before the tre, and wyll make the tre good by the fruite, which is impoſſible Natha. Thou ſpeakeſt yet ſomthyng darkely.
Phy.
Thou ſhalt hauehave it more clearlye. They wyll hauehave rightuouſnes in a man before it be in hym, and wyll that he doeth workes of Iuſtice and ryghtuouſnes, and by the ſame to be Iuſtified. But howe ſhal he do the workes of Iuſtice, excepte he hym ſelfe be fyrſte iuſte, and that can he not be but by the Iuſtice and ryghtuouſnes of Ieſus Chriſte, and that can not he obteine but by fayth wherfore wyth good ryght is the honour of Iuſtification gyuen vntounto fayth, ſeynge that ſhe is the rote and fundation of the ſame, and of all good workes, the whiche proceadeth of the ſame rote.
Nata.
I vnderſtād this now welynoughe, but in as muche as fayeth hath ſuch vertue, declare vntounto me what fayeth is.
Phy.
Fayeth is a certayne and aſſured knowledge and a fyrme perſwation and truſte of the louelove and mercy of God towardes vsus for the louelove of Ieſus Chriſte hys ſonne.
Natha.
A manne whych wyll hauehave thys faieth whole and perfitte, what is he bounde to beleue.
Phylip.
Al that is conteyned in the holye ſcriptures, but The ſumme of faythbecauſe that thys doctrine of fayeth is ample and large it is drawen into a briefe and ſhorte ſumme for the healpe & ſucoure of the weakenes and infirmitie of the humaine vnderſtandynge, and the memorie of the pore and ſimple people.
Natha.
What vnderſtandeſt thou by that ſhorte ſumme, is it the crede of the Apoſtles?
Phy.
It is the verye ſame.
Nathana.
Wherfore is it called the Crede of the Apoſtles.
Phy.
Bycauſe it is a ſhort ſumme of the doctrine Apoſtolyke, and a whole ſome conteynynge in fewe wordes the principal poyntes and articles of the fayth and chriſtian religion.
Natha.
I deſyre muche that thou woldeſt declare it vntounto me poynte by poynte, for it doeth not ſuffice to can ſaye it by herte and confeſſe it wyth the mouthe, ſpeakynge as the pies wyth out vnderſtandynge what we do ſaye.
Phy.
It is verye certayne that the confeſſiō of the mouth profiteth litle except it procede of faith frō the herte.
Nata.
That vnderſtand I well, and therfore do I deſyre to hauehave a more playne vnderſtandynge, for howe can I perfectly beleue that which is cōteined therin without the vnderſtāding of it, for it is not poſſible that in thoſe fewe wordes ſhoulde be comprehended al the apoſtolyke doctrine, but it conteyneth greate matters, and many goodly poyntes worthy to be well expounded and opened.
Phylype
Thou takeſte it not a miſſe, and ſeynge the good deſyre that thou haſte, I am verye well contente to ſatiſfie the ſame, but nowe I hauehave no conueniente leyſure, for it cā not be ſo ſhortely done, wherefore thou ſhalte hauehave a litle patience vntounto anone, when I ſhall hauehave a more conueniente leyſure, the better to ſatiſfie thy deſyre.
Nata.
That is very reſonable, & reaſō doeth require that I which would be taughte take the tyme whyche ſeameth to the moſte mete, but if thou …arye longe I will come & put the in remembraunce.
Phy.
Thou ſhalt do well, and fare thou wel to oure nexte meatynge, God conducte and brynge the agayne ſhortlye.