A Christian Instruction Containing the Law and the Gospel, Exposition 1 · Dialogue 18
The eightenth Dialogue is of the preſence of Ieſus Chriſte in heauen, and in the ſupper and in his Church.
VVhether the aſcention of Ieſus Chriſte be a true aſcention or no, or elſe if he made himſelfe only inuiſible.
MATHEVV.
IT ſéemeth to me that all that whiche thou haſt ſpoken of the aſcētion of Ieſus Chriſt, is nothing againſt the opiniō of thoſe againſt whom thou haſt ſo long diſputed, for they denie not that Ieſus Chriſte is gone vp into Heauē, neyther that he ſhall come viſiblie and bodily to iudge the liuing and the dead, euen as thou haſt ſaid.
P.
How do they then agrée their doctrine with this confeſſion?
M.
They alleadge two things vppon this pointe. The firſte is, that the heauen and the right hand of God where Ieſus Chriſte is, do ſtretche ouer all. The other is, that the comming of Ieſus Chriſt which is made by the ſacrament, the Supper is inuiſible: wherfore albeit that he bée there bodily in the propre ſubſtance of his bodie & bloud, yet is he not there viſibly, but inuiſibly.
P.
If they make no ſpace betwéene the earth and the heauen, and that they will ſtretche out the heauen euen to the earth in ſuche ſort that Chryſt hath not abſented him from the earth, as touchyng his bodie, and that he didde retire himſelfe, when he went vp into heauen, it may not then be ſayde, that he is aſcended as the Scripture witneſſeth, but that he hathe alwayes remayned vppon earthe, without departing from thence, agaynſt that whiche he himſelfe did prophecie to his diſciples. It muſte alſo be ſayde, that hée ſhould then hauehave made hym ſelfe inuiſible to them, and that he were ſtil yet on earth, not viſible, but inuiſible.
Hovve that the preſence corporall of Ieſus Chriſt in the Supper may hauehave no place excepte he hauehave an infinite bodie, or manye.
M.
I Know not what to ſay to thée herein: For if it were ſo, then ſhoulde there be no true aſcētion of Ieſus Chriſt into heauen.
P.
Albeit that it were ſo, yet muſt it néedes be, that he hauehave a body infinite to be in ſo many places at ones: or elſe that he hauehave an infinite number of bodies to be in ſo many places at once, as they wold hauehave him.
M.
I vnderſtand well, that if Ieſus Chryſte had ſuche a bodie, & that his humane nature wer infinite, as is his diuine, it could be no more an humane nature, nether could there be any differēce betwene ye one & the other.
Of the inuiſible comming of the body of Ieſus Chriſte.
P.
AS cōcerning that which thou haſt ſayde of the inuiſible comming of Ieſus Chryſte, where is it in the holie Scriptures that they fynde ſuche a comming, in the which Ieſus Chryſt cōmeth from heauen inuiſibly in the proper ſubſtance of his bodie?
M.
I can not tell, for as thou haſte alredy decelard in the articles of faith, we ſpeake but of two corporall commings of Ieſus Chryſt.
Of the ſpirituall comming of Ieſus Chriſt.
P.
I Wil grant them that there is an inuiſible cōming of Ieſus Chriſt by the whiche hée commeth dayely inuiſibly to all. But that is not in the proper and naturall ſubſtaunce of hys natural bodie, but by his diuyne vertue, whereby notwithſtandyng hée maketh vsus in deede partakers of his bodie and of his bloud, and doth nouriſh vsus, as he doth teſtify the ſame vntounto vsus in his holy Supper, & doth the ſame by the vertue of his holy ſpirite, the whiche ioyneth vsus vntounto him without being néedefull that Ieſus Chriſte deſcend or aſcend in his owne body, to make vsus partakers.
M.
But howe may this be done, forſomuche as the body of Ieſus Chryſte is in heauen, and that wée be on the earth, and that ther is ſo great diſtāce betwene the one and the other?
P.
Seing that this coniunction is not naturall nor carnall, but ſupernaturall and ſpiritual, it is not at all harde for the holy Ghoſts in ſuch ſort to ioyn the earth and the heauen together, and to drawe vp our hearts into heauen, euen to Ieſus Chriſte.
M.
I know well that there is nothyng harde nor impoſſible to God.
P.
In lyke manner is it not harde for Ieſus Chryſte, to make the vertue and efficacie of his bodie the ſacrifice of the ſame which he hath offered for vsus, to come euen to vsus, without being néedefull that he deſcende bodily from heauen, to come to vsus.
M.
I graunte to thée all that.
Hovve that the corporall preſence of Ieſus Chriſt in the ſupper, is contrary to the diuine vertue that is in him to communicate his gifts and graces to his Church.
P.
IT muſt neceſſarily be that it be ſo, for if he coulde hauehave no communion with vsus, and communicate himſelfe to vsus, without comming downe from heauē bodily, and without that he were with vsus corporally preſente, his vertue ſhuld not be ſo great as it is, nor ſhould it be ſo wel ſet foorth, nor in ſo great effect.
M.
Is that the cauſe why he ſaide to his diſciples, it is expedient that I go, for if I go not,Iohn. 16. a the comforter which is the holy Ghoſt, will not come?
P.
It is certaine that by theſe words, he would giuegive his diſciples to vnderſtand two things.
M.
Which be they?
P.
The firſt is, that his corporal preſence did holde them ſtill fixed in the earth, and did hinder them by the meane of their infirmitie & rudenes, to cōprehend & vnderſtand, that his kingdome was ſpiritual & not carnall, as they thought it to bée.
M.
Which is yet the other pointe?
P.
It is yt he was not come vppon earth, there to raigne by a corporall preſence, but to retire his body into heauen, & that he would raigne by his holy ſpirit & by his ſpirituall & diuine vertue among his, according to the promiſe which he made them, whē he ſaid, when you ſhall be gathered together two or thrée in my name. I am in ye middeſt of you.Mat. 18. c. 28. d. And againe, I am wt you euen to the conſummation of the worlde.
Of the ſpirituall and diuine preſence of Ieſus Chriſt in his Church, and of the vertue of the ſame.
M.
THou vnderſtandeſt then theſe paſſages of the ſpiritual & diuine preſence of Ieſus Chriſt in his Churche.
P.
No man may otherwiſe take them. And therfore Ieſus Chriſt hath ſaid, to ſhewe that great power which he had. Al power is giuē me,Mat. 28. d. Ephe. 4. b. 1. d. both in heauē and in earth. S. Paule in like fort hath written that he is aſcended aboue all the heauens, to ye ende he mought fill al things, & that he mought fulfill all in the ſame.
M.
Doeſt thou vnderſtand that he doth accompliſhe and fill all things, not by his corporall preſence, but by his ſpirituall & diuine preſēce and vertue?
P.
We may not otherwiſe vnderſtand it, if we do beleue that Ieſus chriſt hath a very natural body, & that he be in déede gone vp into the heauens. For as we hauehave alredy ſaid, as ther is no reaſon to giuegive him many bodies, to be in manye places at a time, euē ſo is it ouer ſtrange, to giuegive hym a bodye which may fill the heauen and the earth.
Hovve that the corporall preſence of the body and of the bloude of Ieſus Chriſt is contrary to the true communion of them in the Supper.
M.
I Doe now remember that thou haſt alredy ſaid that the body & the bloud of Ieſus Chriſt could not be ſeparated frō his ſpirit, frō whence I do conclude that the body and bloud of chriſt Ieſus cānot be receiued but to the ſaluation of them which doe receiue it.
P.
None may doubt thereof.
M.
It followeth then further that infidells cannot receiue them, forſomuch as they cannot receiue them except they receiue their ſaluation, the whyche they cannot obtaine without faith, wherof they are void.
P.
This which thou ſayeſt dothe yet confirme more and more all that whiche we hauehave handled heretofore concerning the corporall preſence of Ieſus Chriſt in the Supper.
M.
It is alſo the cauſe why I did againe ſet foorth thys matter. For if the body and the bloude of Ieſus Chriſt be corporally in the ſupper, in ſuche ſorte, that whoſoeuer receiueth bodily the bread and the wine therein, receiueth alſo the body and the bloud of Ieſus Chriſt corporally: there ſhall follow thereof many things, which ſéeme to me very contrary as well to the office of Ieſus chriſt as to the nature of this Sacrament of the Supper.
P.
Thou ſayeſt very truthe, and I am very glad to here of thée that which thou thinkeſt.
M.
For the firſte we ſhall be conſtrayned to confeſſe that a man maye in the Supper receiue the body and the bloude of Ieſus Chriſte without faith and without his ſpirite, for the vnfaithfull whiche ſhall receiue the bread and the wine, ſhall no leſſe receiue the body and the bloud of Ieſus Chriſte, than the faithfull.
P.
Beholde there a very ſtraunge conſequencie.
M.
Moreouer, if a man may receyue them without faithe, they whiche ſhall receiue them in ſuch ſorte, ſhal receiue thē either to their ſaluation or condemnation, if they receiue thē to their ſaluation, it muſt néedes followe that a man maye obtaine ſaluation without faith: if they do receiue thē to their condemnation, it muſt then followe that the body and the bloude of Ieſus Chriſte do bring in this Sacramente againſt their nature, deathe in ſtéede of life, whiche is alſo againſt the nature of the Sacramente, for it was not ordeyned to bring death to man, but life.
VVhether a man maye conclude of the vvords of Sainct Paule, that a man may receyue the body and the bloud of Ieſus Chriſt in the ſupper, to condemnation.
P.
THou concludeſt very well, but they which houlde the opinion againſte the whiche we diſpute at this preſente, make no difference to affirme that the infidels receiue in the ſupper the body & the blud of Ieſus Chriſt, & that they receyue thē to their condēpnation. For they build themſelues vpō that which ſ. Paule hath ſaide. That who ſo eateth in the ſupper the bread & drincketh the wine of ye lorde vnworthily,1. cor. 21. f. g doth eate and drinke his condempnation.
M.
I know well that thoſe mē affirme that which thou ſaiſt. But I cannot well agrée their opinion with the matters the which we hauehave alredy handled. And as touching that which they alledge of S. Paule, he ſayth not, who ſo ſhall eate the body and drincke the bloud vnworthily, ſhal receiue his condempnation, but he ſaith, he that ſhall eate of this bread & ſhall drinke of this cup.
P.
Thou haſt alſo to note beſide this, that there is difference betwene receiuing the ſupper vnworthily, & to receiue it without faith, and as touching the word of condempnation, it may be alſo taken in diuers maners, but wée will now no longer dwell vponupon theſe two pointes. It is ſufficient for vsus to knowe that the bodye and the bloud of Ieſus Chriſt cannot bée truely receyued but by the faythfull.
Of the principall difference that maye be betvveene the tranſſubſtanciation of the bread and of the vvine into the bodie and the bloud of Ieſus chriſt and the bodily coniunction of them together.
M.
I Do well vnderſtand by all the reaſons & teſtimonies which thou haſt brought out of ye holy ſcriptures, that we may ſeke no corporal nor carnall preſēce of Ieſus chriſt, neither in the ſupper, nor yet in all thys viſible worlde, but only a ſpirituall and diuine preſence. Wherfore whē I hauehave well conſidered the whole, I finde no great difference, betwene them that affirme, yt the bread and the wine be conuerted & tranſubſtanciated into ye bodie & blud of Ieſus chriſt in the ſupper, by the vertue of the ſacramentall wordes, & thoſe which affirme, that albeit that the bread & the wine remayne ſtill in their owne ſubſtāce, yet notwithſtāding, ye body & blud of Ieſus chriſt be there alſo preſent with thē, in their proper and natural ſubſtāce, not only ſpiritually, but alſo corporally & ſubſtancially, as are ye bread & the wine.
P.
There is no great difference but in yt that ye one ſort thinking to auoid the abſurdities which follow the opinion of the others, do fall into other abſurdities which are nothing leſſe, of the which we will no more ſpeake here, bycauſe the matter woulde be to long, whereof we hauehave alredy ſufficiently ſpoken.
Of the vnion that is betvvene Ieſus Chriſt and his members, ſignified by the breade and the vvine in the Supper.
M.
I Am very well contented for thys time with that which thou haſt ſaid, and therefore ſhewe me now, what properties the bread and the wine hauehave yet, which are agreable to this Sacramente of the Supper, beſide that whiche thou haſt already ſaid.
P.
I hauehave already ſayd that thoſe ſigns were agreable to this ſacrament, bycauſe they be apte to repreſent the ſpirituall nouriture by the bodily.
M.
I doe very well remember thys pointe.
P.
Thou haſt alſo to note vppon the ſame, that as one lofe and one veſſell of wine are made of many graines gathered togither, euen ſo doe they in the Supper repreſente vntounto vsus, how that al the children of God which are diſperſed, are gathered & broughte togither in one, and vnited with Ieſus Chriſt their head, by his deathe,Iohn. 11. g as Saincte Iohn doth witneſſe.
M.
Thou wilte then ſaye, that that vniō which is made of many graines, in one lofe or in one wine, doth ſignifie vntounto vsus the vnion that is betwene Ieſus Chriſt and his Church, to witte, betwene the head and the mēbers.
P.
It ſignifieth not only the vnion which is betwene Ieſus Chriſt and his members, but alſo the vnion which is and ought to be betwene all the members of his body, which cannot be vnited with their heade Ieſus chriſt, nor hauehave him for their head, if they be not vnited among themſelues, the one with the other: for Ieſus Chriſt may not be deuided. And therefore Sainct Paule hath ſaide to the ſame purpoſe, that we are all one bread, and therefore we do alſo eueryevery of vsus part take of one very bread and one very cuppe.
Hovv the ſupper is the ſacrament of vnion and of charitie, and of the admonition that vve hauehave in the ſame.
M.
SEing it is ſo, it followeth then that the ſupper is vntounto vsus a Sacrament of the vnion & charitie, yt all the faithfull ought to hauehave the one with the other?
P.
That is not to be douted, & therfore thou muſt note, yt euē as baptiſme doth admoniſh vsus of ye perpetual repentāce & mortification which ought to be among vsus al ye time of our life: euē ſo hath ye ſupper this propre vntounto it, yt it putteth vsus in mynd of the vnion & charitie wherby we ought to be ioyned the one with ye other, wtout the which we can not be chriſtiās, forſomuch as Ieſus Chryſt ſetteth it foorth vntounto vsus for a marke wherby his diſciples ſhuld be knowne.
M.
Seing it is ſo, I think aſſuredly alſo that we cānot communicate at this holy ſacramēt of ye ſupper, but to our cōdemnatiō, if we hauehave not this charitie & vnion amongſt vsus.
P.
It is eaſie to iudge.