A Christian Instruction Containing the Law and the Gospel, Exposition 1 · Dialogue 10

A Christian Instruction Containing the Law and the Gospel · Exposition 1 · Dialogue 10

p. 207¶ Of the perſon of the holie Ghoſt. The tenth Dialogue.

Of the vvoorke of viuification, and of the principall pointes to bee conſidered concerning the holie Ghoſte.

MATHEVV.

WHat is there now to be doon in the matters that we hauehave yet to hādle folowing thoſe whiche wée hauehave already p. 208heretofore hādled.

P.

Seing that we hauehave alredy ſufficiently ſpoken of the work of redemption, we may now ſpeake of the worke of viuification and ſanctification, whiche is properly attributed to the holy Ghoſte.

M.

Whiche be the principall points to conſider in the ſame?

P.

There be chiefly two.

M.

Which is the firſte?

P.

It is concerning the perſon and the nature of the holy Goſt.

M.

And the ſecond?

P.

Concerning his gifts and graces, and the diſtribution of them.

Of the diuinitie of the holy Ghoſt, and of the proprieties aſcribed to all the perſons of the Trinitie.

M.

WHat hauehave we to conſider of the perſon and nature of the holy Ghoſte?

Pet.

That he is very God of one very eſſence and diuinitie with the Father and the ſonne from whome he procéedeth.

M.

How vnderſtandeſt thou that the holy Ghoſt procéedeth from the father and the ſonne, conſidering that he is one very God, and of the ſame nature and eſſence with them?

P.

Thou muſt euer remember, that we conſider in the nature p. 209and eſſence of God the father, as beginning of al diuinitie: the ſonne as his eternall word & wiſedome, whereby he doth manifeſt himſelfe: and the holy Ghoſt, as the vertue of the father and the ſonne, by the which he worketh in vsus, to make him ſelfe known ſuch as he declareth him in his ſonne Ieſus Chriſte, and to make vsus partakers of all his treaſures, graces, and heauenlie riches, the whiche the father hath opened vntounto vsus in him.

If there be any beginning in the diuine eſſence, and hovv the holy Ghoſt proceedeth from the father and from the ſonne.

M.

If the ſonne & the holy ghoſt be one very god with y^e father, in mine opynion they be alſo eternall, and withoute beginning and without ende, as he is.

P.

It is not to be doubted.

M.

And yet for all that it ſéemeth to me, that firſte thou imputeſt beginning to the father, and after that thou placeſt the ſonne, whiche followeth afterward, as though he had the father for his beginning and then the holy Ghoſt as following thē after, and hauing p. 210two beginnings, of the which the ſeconde dependeth of the firſt, to witte, the father and the ſonne.

P.

When I ſpeake ſo, thou muſt thinke that I admitte no beginning neyther in the father, the ſonne, nor in the holy Ghoſt, as if they were creatures, cō ſidering that I confeſſe that they be one only God, and that there is in God neyther beginning nor end.

M.

I do well vnderſtand that.

P.

In like ſorte thou mayſt not thinke that I put the one before the other, as though the one were the beginning of the other, in reſpecte of time, in ſuch ſorte that the father ſhould be before the ſonne as touching time, and then the father and the ſon before the holy Ghoſte, in ſuch ſorte that the father ſhould be the firſt, and the ſonne the ſecond, and the holy Ghoſt the third and laſt.

Hovv vve ought to vnderſtand the order vvhiche is in the perſons of the Trinitie.

M.

IT ſéemeth to me for all that that thou ſaiſt ſo, and I cannot otherwiſe vnderſtād it, if thou do not better declare p. 211vntounto me thy meaning.

P.

Thou muſt vnderſtande that a thing maye be called firſte or laſte in diuers ſortes, and according to dyuers conſiderations.

Ma.

What meaneſt thou by this? For the firſte, a thing is called firſte in reſpecte of tyme when it is before an other, and more aunciente than the ſame.

Mathevv.

Thou haſte declared vntounto me that I muſt not ſo take it in the dyuine eſſence and nature, for ſomuche as in the ſame all is there eternall withoute beginning and withoute ende.

Peter.

It is true, but for the ſeconde, a thing maye bée before an other in honoure and dignitie, albeit that it be not firſte in time, as a king or prince ſhall be firſt in dignitie amongſt his ſubiects, albeit many of them may be more aged than he.

M.

Doſt thou ſay that the father is before the ſonne, and the father and the ſonne before the holy Ghoſte in this manner?

Peter.

No. For in the diuine nature there is nothyng of more or leſſe, but there is equalitie in all thinges.

M.

Thy meaning is then that p. 212no one perſon of the Trinitie which is in the vnitie of god, is more worthy or more great than the other.

P.

We may not otherwiſe vnderſtande it, for if it were otherwiſe, eyther there ſhoulde not be one very eſſence and diuinitie, but ſundry, and conſequently ſundry Gods, of which ſome ſhould be greater, and ſome leſſe: or els it muſt néeds be that God ſhould be greater and more worthy than him ſelfe.

M.

All theſe cōſequences would be very ſtrāge.

P.

There is no doubt. For if they were ſundry Gods, they ſhould be no Gods, no not at all. For God cannot be but almightie, all perfecte, and all infinite.

M.

Thy meaning is then that he muſt neceſſarily be all alone.

P.

Thou maiſt ſo very well vnderſtande it, for ſundry cannot be all mighte, all perfecte, & all infinite.

M.

I do well vnderſtand all that.

P.

There is alſo a third maner whereby one thing may be before an other.

M.

What is it?

P.

It is when a thing is of ſuche nature, that it may be without an other, the whiche notwithſtanding cannot be without it.

M.

I cannot well vnderſtand what thou ſayſt vntounto me, vnleſſe thou declare it more p. 213plainly vntounto me by example.

P.

One is before two, for ſomuch as two cannot be, but one muſt be firſte, ſéeing that two are but a double, to witte, twice one. But one may very well be without two.

M.

Thou wilte not ſay yet that the father is before the ſonne and before the holy Ghoſte in ſuch a manner?

P.

No. For the Father cannot be without the ſonne, and the holy Ghoſt, as the ſonne and the holy Ghoſt cannot be without the father.

M.

Shewe me then in what other ſorte the father is before the ſonne, and the father and the ſonne before the holy Ghoſte.

P.

Thou muſt fourthly note, concerning thinges that be equall of time, of dignitie, and of nature, that for aſmuch as a man cannot conſider and comprehend them all at one time or inſtante, we do conſider them the one after the other, and we place the one before the other, euen as we comprehende and diſpoſe them in our vnderſtanding. And euen ſo, that whiche wée firſte conſider and comprehende, or that which firſte is ſhewed vntounto vsus, is firſte in order in reſpecte of vsus, albeit that it be equall to the others, of time, of dignitie, p. 214and of nature.

M.

In ſo doing that whiche we place firſte or laſte, is neyther firſte nor laſt in it ſelfe, but only in our vnderſtanding and in regarde of the ſame, whiche bycauſe of hys weakeneſſe, is enforced to departe that whiche is ioyned togither, and to deuide that which cannot in it ſelfe be ſeparate, to the ende that hée may the better comprehende by partes that whiche he cannot wholly at a time comprehende.

P.

Thou ſayeſt very well.

Mathevv.

Is it then thy meaning, that in this ſorte we pleaſe the Father as the firſt in the diuine eſſence, and the ſonne as the ſecond, and the holy Ghoſt as the thirde, albeit that all theſe thrée diuine perſons be in one very eſſence and equall in all and by all, both in time, in dignitie, and in nature, and in all things which belong to the nature of God?

P.

We maye very well take it ſo. But there is yet a fyfte manner, whiche is alſo very agréeable to the pointe vppon the whiche wée are, the which hath a certaine agréement with that before cited.

Mathevv.

Whiche is it.

Peter.

It is among the thinges that are in ſuche ſorte of one very nature, that p. 215the one cannot be withoute the other, and yet for all that the one is as the ſpring of the other, and the other as a dependaunce of the ſame.

Mathevv.

Gyue me an example of the ſame.

Peter.

The lighte and the ſhyning or brightneſſe, cannot be the one withoute the other. For the lighte doth engender and bring foorthe the ſhyning. And albeit that the one be not before the other, yet we gyue the lyghte the firſte place, as though it were before the ſhyning as the mother of it, euen as alſo we conſider the ſunne before his beames and his heate, albeit they be all at once.

Mathevv.

Thou meaneſt then that God hathe ſo declared himſelfe to vsus in his workes and in his worde, and by ſuch meane, and in ſuche order.

Pet.

It cannot bée otherwiſe vnderſtoode without ouerthrowing of al that which is ſet foorth to vsus in y^e holy ſcriptures of y^e vnitie of god, and of the Trinitie of perſons, in y^e eſſence of y^e ſame.

P.

Séeing that it is ſo, y^e which thou ſaiſt agréeth alway w^c y^t which I euē now ſaid, to wit, y^e that whiche we place firſte, ſecond, and thirde, amongſt the perſons p. 216whiche are in the diuine eſſence, is more in reſpect of our vnderſtanding, than of the diuine nature, wherein, to ſpeake properly, there is neyther firſte, ſeconde nor thirde, ſeing there is no difference, neyther of time, nor of dignitie nor of nature: but only in the order according to the whiche God hath manifeſted himſelfe to vsus in his word, according as our capacitie may beſt comprehend him.

P.

Seeing that God is eternall and infinite in hymſelfe, and that we cannot comprehende him in that infiniteneſſe and eternitie, it hath pleaſed him ſo to ſhewe himſelfe to vsus, making himſelfe méete, as thou haſte alredy ſaid, to the rudeneſſe of our vnderſtandings. And therefore he will that we know him, and that we ſpeake in ſuche ſorte in the whiche he hath declared hymſelfe to vsus by his worde and by hys works, and not otherwiſe.

Of the difference that muſt be put betwene the eſſence and the giftes of the holie Ghoſte.

p. 217M.

I Do now ſufficientlye vnderſtande thy meaning touching this poynte, of the nature and diuinitie of the holye Ghoſte: come to the other which is concerning his giftes.

Pe.

Thou haſt to note firſte, that bycauſe the Father doth communicate to vsus by the vertue of the holie Ghoſte, the graces the whiche he doth offer and preſent vntounto vsus in his Sonne Ieſus Chryſt, theſe graces are called by the name of the holy Ghoſt. And therfore in the Scripture it is ſpoken of the holie Ghoſt, as thoughe there were ſundry of them.

M.

GiueGive mée an example of that which thou ſayeſt.

Peter.

Eſay,Eſay. 11. a,Isa 11 ſpeaking of the graces whiche ſhoulde be in Ieſus Chryſt, and of the excellent giftes of god, wherwith he ſhould be indued in his humane nature, hath ſayde: The ſpirite of the Lorde ſhall repoſe vponupon him, the ſpirite of wiſedome and vnderſtanding, the ſpirite of counſell and of force, the ſpirite of knowledge and of feare of the Lorde: There is alſo mention made in other places of the holie Scriptures,Rom. 8. c. 1. Cor. 12. a. b. 2. Cor. 4. …Rom 81 Cor 122 Cor 4 and chiefly in the Epiſtles of Sainct Paule, of the Spirite of adoption and of faythe, and of … p. 218prophecie, & of other ſuch like gifts, whiche we muſt vnderſtād not of the eſſence of the holy Ghoſt,1. Cor. 5. d1 Cor 5 but of his workes and effects.

M.

Thy meaning is then, that we muſt diſtinguiſhe betweene the nature of the holy Ghoſt, and his gifts & graces?

P.

We muſt ſo vnderſtand: For when wée ſay, according to the teſtimonies of y^e holy ſcriptures, that the holie Ghoſt dwelleth in vsus, we do not mean that he dwelleth in vsus in his nature and proper perſon vnited with vsus, as the diuine nature was vnited in Ieſus Chriſte with the humane: but that he there dwelleth by his vertue, & by his gifts and graces, wherof he makech vsus partakers.