The Christian Disputations, Dialogue 2 · Body of dialogue (1 of 2)

The Christian Disputations · Dialogue 2 · Body of dialogue (1 of 2)

p. 62THE SECOND DIALOGVE which is called the office of the dead.

THeophilus. You did erewhile complayne bicauſe that in ſpeaking of Purgatory wée were ſo affectioned after it, that it hav almoſt made vsus to forgette our dinner: But now I doe feare very much the contrary, that the dinner doth make vsus forget purgatory, and the reſidue which yet remained to be thought on.

Hillarius.

You know very well that the Prieſtes hauehave accuſtomed to breake their faſt, and to eate the ſoppe in the wyne in the middeſt of their Maſſe. Wherefore it were good reaſon that we did pauſe a lyttle in the middes of our Maſſe, for to breathe our ſelues. For we hauehave ſayd and ſunge inough for the dead for to drinke once: And yet wée are more beneficiall vntounto them then the Prieſtes. For wée hauehave not dronken vppon their coſtes and expences.

Thomas.

Therefore you are ſo much the ſoberer. For me thinkes that you hauehave not druncke very much according to that that you ſay you were a thirſt.

Hillarius.

I toke that which ſufficed me and no more, and was content. For it doth to me more good, then all that which the Prieſtes and Moonkes hauehave eaten and dronken in the name of the dead; doth profite the dead. It is already longe ſince that I would hauehave brought in for you that, but I doe alwayes wayte when that Euſebius would beginne. But I know very well that the dinner hath a lyttle abated his choler, and that the aduice and counſayle of Seneca is good, who Seneca.counſayleth thoſe that are ſubiecte to ire & choler not to faſt nor to take in hande any wayghty matter, if they do finde faſting hurtfull to thoſe vvhichwhich are ſubiect to vvrath.themſelues by experience to be more enclyned to wrath before they hauehave eaten then after, bicauſe that hunger increaſeth it the more.

Euſebius.

Therefore doe you breake your faſt ſo willyngly in the morning, and are ſo much afraide to faſt. You muſt not impute my choller vntounto faſting, but to your importunate and wicked tongue: For he muſt hauehave great patience which would not be moued to wrathe through your words.

Theophilus.

I would gladly know thy reaſons wherfore. Admitte that all that which this holy father hath preached this day be true, and all that which he at other times hath made vsus to beléeue of Purgatory: Firſt I demaund of thée, whether the Prieſts & Moonkes can delyuer the ſoules which are kept in that fire, through their Prayers, Suffrages, good déedes, Uigiles, Maſſes and Pardons?

Euſebius.

Who will ſay the contrary but the Hereticks?

Theophilus.

If it be ſo, wherefore are they ſo cruell that they doe not delyuer them incontinent from the fire, ſith that they hauehave the power to doe it? Doe they delyte to ſee them frye, roſte, and burne with a lyttle fire, as they doo The crueltye of the preſtes tovvards the ſoules.thoſe whome they condempne for Heretickes, for to make them ſuffer more greater torment? If you ſée an houſe on fire, and that ther were a lyttle childe, or a poore man with in the houſe, crying for helpe and ſuccour, would you not runne by and by and fetch them out, if you might poſſible?

Thomas.

Although it were but a Deg, yet one ſhould hauehave pyttie to heare him cry and howle.

Theophilus.

That ſame is moſt true. Wherefore you Miſeremini mei, miſeremini mei, ſaltem vos amici mei, quia manus Domini tetigit me. Lugentibus in purgatorio. Qui torrentur ardore nimio, Et torquentur ſine remedie, Subuentat tua compaſsio, O Maria.may iudge Euſebius, what people thoſe are, whome you hauehave in ſuch eſtimacion, & accompteſt for the holy Church. They doe ſing in their Uigills, in the name of the ſoules: HaueHave mercy vppon mee, hauehave mercy vppon mée, you at the leaſt that are my friends. And in their Maſſe and in theire Lugentibus in Purgatorio: They doe cry vntounto the Uirgin Mary that ſhe hauehave pittie & compaſſion of theſe poore ſoules which doe lament themſelues in Purgatorye, and which are roſted with a very great fire and tormentes without remedy. Wherefore doe not they themſelues hauehave compaſſion on them and giuegive them helpe.

Euſebius.

What p. 63doe they then? Doe you not ſée how by thoſe very words, they doe pray vntounto the Uirgin Mary for them, and howe they ſhew that they are their aduocaters and interceſſors towards hir.

Theophilus.

But doe they that for the compaſſion that they hauehave of them?

Hillarius.

They declare it ſufficiently inough. For if one giuegive them no money, they will lette them roſt and burne perpetually, although they hauehave power to delyuer them, as they brag and boaſt themſelues they can.

Theophilus.

Thereoff I am much abaſhed, The rule of the diuine ſeruice for the dead. Durant. Ratio diui. off. li. 7. Rub. de off. mort.and yet more, bicauſe it is written and ordayned in theire rules of their diuine office, that if it chaunce that the yeres minde of thoſe that be dead fall vppon a Sunday, or vponupon any ſolempne feaſt, it ought not to be delayed nor put off vntill the next day, as it is vſed in the office and feaſts of Saints, if they fall vppon ſuch dayes: But muſt rather aduaunce the office and prayers for the dead in the dayes before, for to comfort them the better, and to preuent and mittigate the paynes that they to ſuffer in Purgatory. Of which they do giuegive ſuch reaſons, ſaying: that the dead & the Vnde verſus Non peccat cantans, qui iuſtam praeuenit horam: Sed peccat cantans qui iuſtam prae terit horam. lo. Maio. 4. ſent diſt. 45. q. 1. Long & ſhort Maſſes.ſoules of y^e dead hauehave neede of our ayde, but not y^e Saints. Wherefore the Saints which be in Paradiſe hauehave more greater leaſure to tarry, then the poore ſoules that are holden in the fire of Purgatory. Whervnto agréeth very well the queſtion which Maioris made: To witte, what Maſſe is moſt profitable for the dead, eyther that which is ſayde quickely and haſtely, as the cuſtome is in Fraunce to ſinge them: or els that which is ſayd leaſurely, and in which they beſtowe a greate time, as they doe in Scotlande and in Spayne.

Hillarius.

What is the ſolution of the queſtion?

Theophilus.

That the ſame that is ſooneſt diſpatched is the beſt: For the ſoules doe not feele the comfort that they oughte to receiue of the Maſſes which are ſunge in theire name, vntill ſuch time as the Maſſe is done.

Hillarius.

And therefore they ſay as I thinke. Ite Miſſa eſt. Go your way the Maſſe is done, and doe beléeue that then the ſoules hauehave leaue for to depart out of purgatory. But by that accompt the Maſſes of Hunters ſhould be the The hunters Maſſe. The requiems of the poores and of the rich.beſt. And the poore ſhould hauehave more greater aduauntage then the rich. For they doe diſpatch their Maſſes quickely with a lyttle Requiem, yet the Prieſtes doe eate the one halfe for the great haſt that they hauehave. It ſéemeth playnelye To go into Paradiſe in poſt, & vponupon a …rſlytter or vvagon.that they woulde ſende them into Paradiſe in poſte. But the riche they doe carrye vppen Horſelytters or Wagons with great Requiems, which continueth euerye one of them more then tenne myles, and are more then tenne ells long. But I thinck that they hauehave regarde vntounto that, that the moſt part of thoſe arrant théeues were goutie, and they are yet afraide to doe them hurte and to trouble their goutes.

Thomas.

I had rather to hauehave the goute and to be carryed into Paradiſe vppon the moſt trotting horſe that can be founde, then to burne in that ſo terrible a fire. But I maruayle, if it be ſo, wherefore it is forbidden that the Prieſtes ſhall ſay but one Maſſe in a day, ſith that they are One Maſſe in a daye.ſo profitable for the dead. Me thinketh that the Prieſtes ſhould neuer ceaſe ſinging of Maſſes at all times and that they ought to forſake their meate and foode to doe that. For if they were in a fire, they woulde gladly that one ſhould leaue all things for to helpe thē out. Furthermore, howe much the more a thinge is the betre…, ſo much the more the frequentacion of the ſame ought to be the better.

Hillarius.

I am alſo eſtonyed that the Papiſts doe not all the good déedes that they determine to doe for the deade all in one day without tarying for the yeremindes, and cauſing the poore ſoules to languiſh ſo long in that fire, & to ſuffer them ſo long time to roſte: and that thoſe that ordayne Maſſes in their Teſtaments, doe not cauſe them to bée diſpatched in an houre, without lymiting ſo long time.

Theophilus.

Alſo Maioris did very well ſay, that the ſame 4. Cent diſt. 45. 41.ſhould be the better, although that afterwards, he added that a Maſſe which is ſaid more treatably, doth recompence through the deuoſion of him which ſayeth it, the quickeneſſe p. 64and breuitie of that which is ſayde in haſt.

Hillarius.

I beléeue very well that they had rather hauehave all their money together that they looke for, then to cauſe them to languiſh in tarying for it, as the poore ſoules, fearing leaſt any thing ſhould eſcape them. Therefore they ſay, that the candle that goeth before, is better then that The candle that goeth before.which commeth after.

Thomas.

I aſſure thée that I had an Aunt, whom they had put that into hir heade that the To bury one before he is dead. An hiſtory.muſt be buryed before ſhe be deade.

Hillarius.

How could ſhe doe that?

Thomas.

Shée hath done during hir lyfe all hir good déedes, as ſhe would hauehave that one ſhould doe for hir after hir death, carryinge candells, and ſprinklyng holy water vppon the graue in which ſhe would be buryed, and cauſinge the Prieſtes to ſing, as they ſhould hauehave done if ſhe had bene dead. But the ſame happened well for them. For afterwards ſhee was conuerted to your law, and the moſt part of all hir parents and kinſfolke. Wherefore the Prieſtes ſhould hauehave loſt all that.

Hillarius.

And therefore it is not without cauſe y^t they make ſuch haſt of offerings, but without the ſame they make no haſt.

Theophilus.

It ſhould ſéeme to thoſe y^t heare thē read vponupon their bookes, y^e they hauehave great pittie & compaſſion of thoſe captiue ſoules, ſith that they had rather delay y^e honor y^t they would do vntounto y^e ſaints, & their office, then y^e ſame of the dead, & the ſolace & comforte that they would giuegive vntounto them. But y^e practiſe of their doctrine and experience declareth vntounto vsus the contrary. For hée that will not giuegive them readye money in theire handes without all queſtion, thoſe poore ſoules ſhould neuer hauehave any helpe of them, or at the leaſt it ſhalbe but lyttle, and they ſhall tarry their leaſure. And ſo by that meanes the poore ſhalbe alwayes miſerable, and cannot enter into Paradiſe for want of money, if there be ſuch auarice in Paradiſe as is among them.

Hillarius.

Some men ſaye they hauehave hearde their lamentations, and that you doe wronge vntounto them, and that The lamentations of the preſts for the dead.they are not ſo pittileſſe as you make them. For in ſinging for the dead, they lament ſo piteouſly, that men would ſay that they did wéepe and mourne, as if they had buryed their father and mother. But it is eaſie to bée ſéene, that they are not ſo ſorrowfull as they ſéeme they are: But that thoſe are the teares of the Crocodile, who Crocodili la. chrymae. The vveping of the Crocodilweepeth when he would eate and deuoure men. Wherefore the more I beholde them, ſo much the truer do I finde the aunſwere of him, of whome one aſked what kinde of people doe lyue now a dayes moſt ioyfully and fréely vppon What men are moſt free and priuiledged.the earth? and who hauehave the greateſt franchiſes and priuiledges?

Thomas.

What aunſwered he?

Hillarius.

That they were the Prieſts and the Phiſtcians. For the Prieſtes are alwayes ioyfull and merry as you heare them ſing at the burialls, when all the other do wéepe and lament. The Phiſicians alſo hauehave great lyberties The priuiledge of the vvicked Phiſicions and hangmen. Plin. li. 29. c. 1. Medico tatum hommem occidiſſe impunitas ſumma eſt.and franchiſes. For it is lawfull for them to kill men, not onelyonly without receiuing puniſhment for it, but which is more, they hauehave and receiue money for their labour?

Thomas.

The hangmen are aſmuch priuiledged.

Hillarius.

You ſay true, I am abaſhed that Plinie hath not ioyned them together, when he did ſpeake of the priuiledge of the Phiſicians. But it ſeemeth vntounto me, that they ought yet to hauehave wages of the Prieſts. For they doe not neglect and fore ſlow their buſineſſe, but doe bring goodly hydes into The tanne fatte of the preſtes.their tanne fatte.

Theophilus.

Yea the barbarous and ignorant Emperiques and Arabians, which ought to agrée with them, and the Theologians Sophiſtes. But they cannot gette much with the cunning Phiſicians and which are of a good conſcience.

Hillarias.

And therefore me thinkes that thoſe cannot well agrée with the Prieſtes, For the Prieſtes deſire none other thing but death: And the good Phiſicians The good Phiſicians.doe not trauayle but to driue death away, & to giuegive health, and to kéepe and mayntayne the lyfe of men.

Thomas.

There is nothing truer then that thou ſayſt. For I my ſelfe hauehave hearde them how they doe reioyce of their poore pariſhieners, and ſay the one to the other, in goyng p. 65to the tauerne: Let vsus go drincke vponupon the firſt ſkinne that will come.

Theophilus.

What meane they by that?A nevv prouerbe of the prieſtes. To drincke vponupon the ſkinne to come.

Hillarius.

I do vnderſtand their prouerbe. But I am not much abaſhed, although you do not vnderſtād it, for it is not in the Chiliades of Eraſmus. They compare the poore people to the beaſtes, of whom they are the boutchers and flears, as they themſelues confeſſe by their prouerbe. And neuertheleſſe The butchery of the prieſtes.Euſebius is angry when we do name them by the names that they themſelues hauehave giuen them.

For what other thing doth their prouerbe ſignifie, but as the boutchers and flears hauehave the profite and gaine of the ſkinne and hyde of the beaſtes whom they flea: Euen ſo alſo hauehave they the profite of the dead bodyes of which they flea. I hauehave heard them my ſelfe, howe they reioyce, when they heare that there is any rich man ſicke and in daunger of death, and howe they ſaye let vsus make good chéere: For we ſhall hauehave by and by héere a good ſkinne for ſhoes and for the tanne fatte. There is neither Tanner nor Cordwaytter Hydes for shoes Tanners and Shomakers of mens skinnes.ſo wealthy as thoſe are. For all the other knowe not to make their profit but of y^e ſkinnes & hides of beaſts: But theſe héere do occupy the ſkinnes of men. And although that they be vnprofitable for any woorke, neuertheleſſe they doe make of them more gaine, then of any other, inſomuche that al the gaine that: y^e Tanners do with their marroquino and vntanned hides, and the Cordwamers with their ſhoes, is nothing in compariſon of that whiche theſe doe get with their trade.The reproch of the cuntry man againſt y^e prieſts

Thomas.

I aſſure thée that I doe know a man at Couppet which is beſides Geneun, who hath made this reproche vntounto the Prieſts of the ſame place, and ſaid vntounto them. Ye hauehave dronken vponupon my ſkin, but you ſhal pay y^• ſhot if ye wil for mo: For I will not diſburſe any penny or farthing.

Hillarius.

Wherfore ſaid he that?

Thomas.

Bicauſe that The dead doth mocke y^e prieſts.he was ſicke of long time, & during his ſickneſſe the Prieſts hoping that he would hauehave dyed in ſhort time, went to y^e Tauerne to drinck vponupon his ſkinne: But he deceiued them, & did not to them y^e pleaſure they looked for: For he died not, but is yet aliue to this day.

Hillarius.

The dead hath then deceiued & mocked them as wel as the olde men who do ſpend all their goods vnderunder hope that they ſhall dye in ſhort time, & afterwards, as men ſay, were conſtrained to go beg at the gates & doores, deſiring to giuegive ſome almoſe vntounto thoſe poore people whom death hath begiled. Theſe Prieſts hauehave as The complaynt of the Curate.great occaſion to complaine of him, as y^e Curate had, who (as men ſaye) complained of his Pariſhoners, ſayinge: what would you hauehave me do my Pariſhioners? you will neither offer nor yet dye. Whereof do ye thincke that I can lyue? hauehave you determined y^e I ſhould dye with hunger? doe you not thincke Euſebius, y^e one may ſay the ſame of them that Seneca hath written of Aruncius and Aterius, and of other Seneca ſi. 6. de benef. Auruncius Aterius. Captatores teſtamentorum. Hunters & watchers after heritages and teſtaments. Libitina Libitinarij. Veſpillones. Marrons are thoſe vhich doe bury in y^e time of the plague.like, who do make it an occupaciō & ſcience to purchaſe after heritages & to watch after teſtaments, ſaying that they hauehave the ſame deſire which the Marrons had, & thoſe who make it an occupacion to bury the dead bodies, & to furniſh & prepare that which is neceſſary for the burials & funerals. For the greater that the number of the dead bodies are, ſo much is the game the greater both of the one and the other. And therefore ſaith he: Thoſe y^e do make it an occupatiō to bury the dead know not of whom they ought to deſire death: But theſe hunters & watchers after teſtaments & heritages, doe deſire y^t their friēds & kinſmen ſhould die. If the Prieſts of y^e Panims had bene like vntounto our Prieſts, I doubt not but y^t they would hauehave ioyned vntounto thoſe héere. For they deſire as much the death of men, and more then thoſe, ſith that they make & do the occupation both of the one & the other. Wherfore when I heare them ſing their ſongs ſo pitiouſly and lamentable, about the dead, & their graues, me thincks that I Prouerbe. Flere adnouercae tumulum. The meanes to comforte the I Prieſtes. Minius. Haredis ſtatus ſub perſona liſus eſt.ſée children cry, as the prouerbe ſaith, at the burying of their ſtepmother. And y^t they are like vntounto the little children, who do wéepe & laugh all with one winde, & by and by are appeaſed, ſo y^e when one gyueth them a péece of bread, or an apple, and that which they aſke for: Euen ſo we muſt appeaſe thoſe & giuegive thē money to comfort them. Afterwards as ſoone as they hauehave receiued it, behold them mapings & lamentations p. 66are ended, their ſorrow is tourned into ioy, & Requiem into Gaudeanius.

Theophilus,

This that you ſpeake ſéemeth to be ſowre & ſharp vntounto Euſebius: But I am certeine that if he did read a little y^e which S. Cyprian hath written againſt Cyprian. tract. 1. cont. Demet. Nec infirmes exhibetur miſericordia & defunctis auaritia inhiat acrapina, & appetuntur ſpolia mortuorum. The minſtrells at the burialls Siticines, Tibicines.the auarice & gréedineſſe of the Prieſts & Prelates, & of their rapine & theft towards the dead, in his booke againſt Demetrian, he ſhal finde the thing a little more ſwéeter and pleaſant.

Hillarius.

I do thincke y^e they determine none other thing but to aboliſh all y^e inſtitutiō of the true Church of Ieſus Chriſt, for to reduce & bring it to Iewiſhneſſe and Panimry. The auncient Panims hauehave accuſtomed to hire for ready money ſome minſtrel or many minſtrels after the eſtate of him that dyeth, who ſhall ſinge with their inſtruments many lamentable and pitifull ſongs, of the calamities & miſeries of the olde time, for to comfort the parents & friends of the dead, hearing of other mens miſfortunes, and letting them to vnderſtand thereby y^t they were not alone. For as men do commonly ſay: The conſolation & comfort Alexadr. Appro in proble.of the miſerable is to hauehave compaignions. They do it alſo, to the end that thorow the harmony of y^e inſtruments they ſhould be drawen away & féele leſſe dolour and griefe. The minſtrels then do accompany the pompe and funerall proceſſion, and play their notes before the dead body, ſounding their Trumpets, Flutes & Drumme for to moue the hearers Plato de leg. li. 12.to ſorrowe and lamentation. Sometime they do ſing of the praiſe of the dead, & according to the note that y^e minſtrel doth ſound, & the affections that he giueth to his ſongs & inſtruments, the parents & friends of the dead do ſtrike their breaſts and begin to wéepe & lament, and not content with Lamentersthat, but do hire ſome to lament & wéepe, for to helpe them to ſorrowe and wéepe and to ſinge the complaintes, and Threnodes. Tremniſtriae. Praeſicae. Biernoys Naeuius Alexandrians.chieflye women, bycauſe that they are by nature more pitifull and myleh harted to wéepe, as the Biernoys beſides Gaſcoyne and in Alexandria doe yet vſe vntounto this daye, and doe ſo their office, that one woulde ſaye that the matter toucheth them. They hauehave alſo accuſtomed in many places to ſhaue their beard in token of ſorrow and mourning.

Thomas.

Whereto ſerueth all that for the dead?Haec quidem me hercle praefica ſi mortuum laudat. Coel. Rho. lec anti. 17. c. 22. Herod. Tranq. The honour devve vntounto the dead. Gene. 3. d. 19. Vir. Aene. 11 Interea ſocios, in humalaque corpora terra. Mandamus qui ſolus honos. Acheronte ſub imo eſt. 1. Theſſa. 4. c. 13 The buriall of the Barbarians Herod. Ierom. in loui. lib. 2. Tertul. in Marcio. Fryer Genure. Lib. conſor. fol. 63.Gen 3

Hillarius.

Whereto ſerueth for thē now all y^e that y^e Prieſts doe? What greater honour can we doe vntounto them, then to bury them honeſtly in the earth, followinge the ſentence of God, which hath ſayd: Earth thou art and into earth thou ſhalt retourne againe.

Theophilus.

The true ſeruaunts of God, Patriarkes, Prophets, and Apoſtles, hauehave not much vſed any other Ceremonies, and we know not to followe a better rule and example then theirs, and the admonition which the Apoſtle doth giuegive vntounto vsus. He forbiddeth vsus expreſly y^e we ſhould not ſorrow for thoſe y^e are fallen a ſléepe, as the Panims and Gentiles doe who hauehave no hope. The holy Apoſtle would not bringe vsus to ſuch barberouſneſſe as hath bene ſometime vſed among the Panims, who did eate the dead bodies, or els did giuegive them to be deuoured & torne in péeces with dogs, birdes & fiſhes, without burying them: As many authours as well Panims as Chriſtians do witneſſe it of the Scithians, Indians, Bactrianians, Hircanians, Pontickes, & other ſuch like barberous people.

Hillarius.

I thincke the Fryer Geneure who is ſo much praiſed in the booke of the conformities of ſaint Fraunces, came from ſome of thoſe Nations. For among all the other meruailous vertues which are reported of him, this is one, that he cauſed y^e Diuels to flée away ſeuen miles without euer retourning againe. It is writtē in the ſame booke, that he ſayd: I would to God that when I ſhall dye ther do procéed and come out frō my body ſuch a ſtincke, y^e none dare to come néere it, & finally that men would caſt me out without burying of me, & that I might dye all alone, abhominably & that they would ſuffer mée to be deuoured of the dogs.

Theophilus.

Some hauehave accuſed the Lutherians for that they make none accompt of the dead bodies, bicauſe they condemne the ſuperſtitions of the Papiſtes: But I doe not thincke that euer any of them woulde ſpeake ſo vnhoneſtly, neither of his owne body, nor yet of any others. Yet Diogenes. Cic. Tuſ q. 1.Diogenes had more honeſty, how dogiſh ſoeuer y^e hée was. For although y^e he did not much take care for hys burying, p. 67yet he cōmaunded not that one ſhould giuegive his body to the dogs. It is true y^e he did ſay, that hée had no great care how he ſhould be buried: For thoſe that ſhall hauehave the houſe will not ſuffer him to rot within it. And if they do caſt it out, at the leaſt let them caſt a ſtaffe after it for to defende and kéepe it from the dogges. I knowe not in what Theology this Fryer Geneure hath learned that honeſtie. For the Apoſtle ſpeaketh not after that ſort. Alſo I would not that we ſhould bée ſo ſuperſtitious in the burying as were the Grecians, Romaines, and other like people, who eſtéemed Grecians and Latynes.themſelues more humaine and honeſt, and that wée ſhoulde ſo lament and ſorrowe for the death of our parentes and friendes; as they dyd: as though we had no more hope and truſt of the reſurrection then they, and as though wée dyd thincke them altogether dead and loſt. And although that there was more greater moderation in this among the Iewiſh people, then among all the other, and that they dyd kéepe an …der more agréeing to nature, yet neuertheleſſe the Apoſtle would that we ſhould be bolde and conſtaunt, foraſmuch as wée hauehave more certeine and ſure witneſſe of the reſurrection of the dead, and more greater and excellenter reuelation of the Goſpell, then this auncient people had: at the leaſtwiſe that we doe not worſe then they, but that we may witneſſe through our conſtancie and countenaunce the The ſorrovving for the deadfaith that wée hauehave in Ieſus Chriſte, and our hope in hys reſurrection. The Apoſtle ſaith not ſimply: Sorrowe not for thoſe that are fallen a ſléepe, and bée not ſadde. For that ſhould be Stoique like, and of men he woulde make ſtones and blockes of woode, without any affection: But the doctrine of the Goſpell importeth not the ſame. For although What affectiōs the Goſpel doth permit.that the Goſpell of Ieſus Chriſt doth correct and mortefie the wicked affections of the fleſh, yet neuertheleſſe it depriueth nor ſpoileth man from all humaine affection, but amendeth onelyonly that which is vicious, thorow the naturall corruption, procéeding from the ſinne of man. It is impoſſible that we can be wout dolour & ſorrow, although wée would, when we do ſée the afflictions and miſeries of our brethren, béeing of our fleſh and bloud, The holy Scripture hath not condemned the ſorrow and heauineſſe that Abraham conceiued Geneſ. 23. c. and Geneſ. 50. a. 1 Mat. 14. b. 11 Act. 8. 2. 21 Act, 11. 2. …Gen 23Gen 50Matt 14Acts 8:2Acts 8:21for the death of Sara his wife, & Iſaac of his mother, Ioſeph of his father Iacob: The Diſciples of S. Iohn, & of Ieſus Chriſt, & of ſ. Steuen, & of ſ. Iames, of y^e teares y^e they hauehave ſhed & of y^e ſorrow that they made: For man cannot be man, without béeing moued to pittie and compaſſion, ſéeinge the calamities of others, & féeling the damage that he himſelfe receiueth. Therefore S. Paul ſpeaketh very ſharply, when 1. Theſſ. 4. c. 131 Thess 4he ſayd, that the faithfull ſhoulde not bée ſorrowfull as the Panims and Infidels, who hauehave no hope of the reſurrection. Sith then that he condemneth the dooinges of the Panims, we ought not to kepe them, except we would be rather counted Panims then Chriſtians. It ought then to ſuffice vsus to bury honeſtly the bodies of the dead, and to put them in the earth as in their bed, tarrying and lookinge for the comming of Ieſus Chriſt, and the generall reſurrection of all fleſhe. Therefore the Chriſtians doe call the place that is appointed for their buriall Cimiterium, bycauſe that it is as the bed, couch and dortoire of the faythfull that be The Churchyard & dortoyrdead. And therefore it is good to hauehave ſome certeine honeſt and comely place, as a common repoſitory of the Chriſtians, Thoſe do diſhonour god which do not bury honeſtly the dead. 1. Cor. 6. 1. 101 Cor 6:11 Cor 6:10and publike witneſſe of the reſurrection of the fleſh. For we ſhould doe great wronge vntounto our bodyes which are the temple of God, in whom God dwelleth, and which hauehave bene conſecrated and made holy through the bloude of Ieſus Chriſt vntounto his honour and glory, and dedicated vntounto the immortall inheritage of his kingdome, if wée doe caſt them to dogges, fowles and wilde beaſtes, as ſhe carryon of wilde and brute beaſtes, as though they ſhould liue no more after they were dead, and bée no pertaker of the immortalitie, no more then beaſtes. Their bodies ought to be more déere vntounto vsus, and more ioyned and knit vntounto vsus then their apparell, as Baſile witneſſeth. For that cauſe the Patriarches and true ſeruauntes of God Baſ. ſerui. 2. Mana. ca. 13 Geneſ. 23. d. 19 Geneſ. 25. 2. 7 Geneſ. 17. g. 19 Tho. 1. 2. 3Gen 23Gen 25:2Gen 25:7Gen 17were praiſed, and namely Thoby, not for that they cauſed ſinging, praiers, & offering for the dead, and in ſpending their p. 68ſubſtaunce without neceſſitie vponupon the dead: But bicauſe they hauehave deliuered them againe to the earth their mother Iob. 1. d. 22Job 1from whom they came out: and that they hauehave ſo honoured them by their burying, without ſparing that which was neceſſary for the bodyes of the ſeruaunts of God, for whom he was glorified. And the Panims themſelues were greatly afraide to ſuffer thoſe to lye vnburied who hauehave liued Thoſe that doe kill themſelues are depriued of their buriall. Sopho. in Aiace fla. 24. d. 5. Si non lice. &c. Cum homo. & de poe. diſt. 3. c Iudas.honeſtly, and did not depriue but thoſe who thorow diſpaire did kill themſelues, as yet vntounto this day it is ordained by the Canons. But the Panims oftentimes, doe but cut off the hand that committed the fact, iudgeing it vnworthy to be buried with the body, to whom it hath done violence. Alſo in ſome places they do puniſh with ſuch inſamy thoſe that commit ſacriledge, and that kill their fathers and mothers, and others that hauehave committed ſuch execrable crimes: notwithſtanding that the Hebrewes after that they had ſatiſfied to Iuſtice, buryed them, and would not ſuffer that the Ioſep. aut. li. 4. ca. 6. Eſa. 14. c. 19 Iere. 22. c. 19 The buryall of an Aſſe.Isa 14Jer 22buriall ſhould be denied not to the enimies, as Ioſephus witneſſeth: And the Lord by his Prophet declareth vntounto y^e tyrant of Babilon, that he ſhall hauehave no place to be buryed in: And threateneth Ioachim that he ſhall be buried among the Aſſes, bicauſe of his infidelitie and tyranny.

Hillarius.

The Panims had ſome appearaunce to doe that, & vſed not ſuch crueltie as our Prieſts, who for default of money do refuſe y^e buriall, not onelyonly vntounto the olde folke, but alſo to y^e little Infāts. And how many times doth it happen, y^t they hauehave excōmunicated ſome poore labourer or buſbādmā, Excommunication for money.for twētie or thirtie ſoubs, yea, for thrée, & if he do die being ſo excōmunicated by thē, hauing not wherwith to pay, they hauehave denied him y^e place to be buried with y^e other chriſtiās: In c. ex parte de ſepult. Extra. de torne. ca. De peni diſt. 6. c. 1. 1. Theſſ. 4. a. 51 Thess 4or els he muſt buy it déerly? And yet neuertheleſſe there Canons deny not that Churchyard, but to thoſe who are no Chriſtiās, or who do kill thēſelues: or to thoſe y^e hauehave ben killed in doing ſome wicked acte, as adultry, larceny, murder, & Iewiſh playes. I am greatly abaſhed where they & we hauehave had y^e vnderſtāding. S. Paul & Moſes do forbid vsus expreſly, to be cōfirmable to y^e imitatiōs of the Panims & Idolatrers, it that in diſpite of them wée hauehave not taken any other myrrour, nor hauehave ſtudied in any other thing. For what difference is there betwéene our funerals and buryals & theirs? The ringing of Belles.HaueHave not we the Bels in ſtéede of the Minſtrels that the Panims had? And euen as they had the Minſtrelles that were beſt allowed, according to the eſtate and condition of the perſons, ſo hauehave we the Bels, Prieſts & Monks. When The burying of the rich.there dyeth any Prince or noble man or rich man, that hath well wherewith to pay, they will bury him with the trumpet, with many torches, with great pomp & proceſſion, & with a great company of Minſtrels, and of men and women, for to ſinge, wéepe and lament about him, as it doth wel appeare by the diſcription that Virgile made of the burying and funerals of Pallas the ſonne of king Euander, ſayinge, that after that hée was knowen to be dead in the Citie, and that the Citizens dyd vnderſtand that men dyd bringe the body, and that it was already at hand, did as followeth.

Th'archadians moſt ſodeinly, vntounto the gates then came,The buriall of Pallas. Vir. Aene. 11

Holding the torches funerals, already for the ſame.

According to their olde faſhion, their guiſe and eke cuſtome,

And eueryevery one his torch did light, that ſerued in that rome.

Marching ſo well before the herſe, by order on a row,

That there vvas none among them all, out of order did ſhow.

Giuing ſuch great a ſhining light, the vvay the vvhichwhich they went,

With the dead corps & pomp ſo great, vvhichwhich to his graue him ſent.

That all a farre and round about, the fieldes that are full faire,

Did giuegive ſuch light and ſeruent heat, which flamed in the aire.

And in an other place ſpeaking of the wéepings & lamentations done ouer the dead, ſaith:

Euen to the heauens aſſended is, of men the dolefull cry,Vir. Aene. 11

And eke the ſound of the trumpets, lamenting pitiouſly:

And heſids all theſe things, the rich men were carried to the earth vponupon a goodly Béere, with great magnificence and pomp, the which the Satyrical Poet hath compriſed in a few verſes, ſpeaking of thoſe which through their exceſſe, and p. 69for that they follow not the counſayle of the Phiſitian, and kéepe not good dyet doe kill themſelues ſaying.

With ſuch like train they march before, with trōpe & torches brightPerſius. Sa. 3.

To guyde the rich man to his graue, a goodly gorgeous ſight.

Who on a curious coffin lyes, & mourners beare his beere,

And all his friends bewayle his death, with ſad & mourning cheere.

On the contrary parte, if there doe dye any poore man, The burial of the poore.or anye younge childe, or man of ſmall callynge, they doe bring him ſimply with a lyttle proceſſion, and a ſmall company, and the moſt times in the night, for the cauſes which already before hauehave bene touched, and they hadde but one lyttle Flute. Of which among others the Poet Statius doth witneſſe it wryting of Archanorus, after this manner.

But when poore men or children dye, their buriall is not braue.

A lyttle Flute doth ſerue their tourne, to bring them to their graue.Statius.

Sith that we are fallen into the talke of the Flute, I Pli. ſi. 19. c. 43 The burial of a Rauen.doe remember an hiſtory that Plinie maketh mencion off, of a Rauen that was at Rome, who had learned to ſpeake, inſomuch that eueryevery morning he went into the open ſtréets and ſaluted the Caeſars, to wytte Tiberius, Germanicus, & Druſius, by their proper names, and alſo the people of Rome: For which cauſe he was ſo wel beloued, that when he was dead, the people of Rome put him to deathe that had killed him, and made ſuch great ſorrow and lamentations, that they celebrated funeralls and pompes for him, ſo that he was carryed to the graue vppon a goodly beere, very trimly decked & adorned, the which two Aethiopians or black Moores did beare vponupon their ſhoulders, w^t a great number of garlāds & crowns of flowers, & a Fluter which played vponupon the Flute before vntil they came to his graue.

Thomas.

Is it poſſible that the Romaynes, who hauehave ben ſo greatly eſtéemed thorow out the whole worlde, to hauehave bene ſo fooliſh?

Hillarius.

They witneſſe it themſelues by their owne hiſtoryes: and you muſt vnderſtand, bicauſe that the deade body was blacke, it was carryed by two Aethiopians or blacke Moores, as he was. But if they Blacke monkes.had had of lacopins, Auguſtines, or Moonkes of the order of Saint Bennet they had bene a great deale fitter for that office: and ſo y^e Rauens ſhould hauehave carryed y^e Rauen to the graue, and ſhould hauehave put him in the Paradiſe of the Rauens. And doubte not, that if the Rauens, Dogs, and Aſſes had wherewith to bury them, and that the Prieſtes might get ſo much money from them as they doe from the rich men, that they woulde ſpare them no more then they doe the rich, and would hauehave no more pittie and compaſſion of their ſoules, then of the ſoules of men. I doe meruayle of nothing but of this that the Romaynes vſed rather the Flute in thoſe funeralls of the Rauen, then the Trompette The burial of the poore. Vnde verſus. Dum moritur diues, concurrunt vndi que ciuet. Dum pauper moritur, vix vnus adeſſe videtur.ſith that in all the reſt he was buryed as ſolemly as the rich men be. And what doe our Prieſtes? If any great Uſurer be dead, they runne by and by to the great bell. There is not a Church nor pariſhe but that all the belles are walking, inſomuch that they make a greater noyſe then the Cyclopes doe with their Hammers and Mallets. I would counſell them to doe as the women of the Lacedemonians did when their king was dead, who did runne about the country ſounding and tinging of fire pannes, pots and baſins (as men doe after Bées when they ſwarme) for to declare the death of their king. After that the belles are Herod.once ſet in order a ringing, behold frō all quarters do come, Moonks, Prieſts, white, gray & blacke, ſmokid of al colours as Owles and Shrichowles, Rauens, Eagles, Wolues, and Dogges doe after carren, and they hauehave no néede to ſhaue themſelues, as the Panims doe, for to lament and be ſorrowfull. For they are already ſhauen of themſelues as the Prieſtes of the Babilonians, Aegyptians, and the Prieſtes of Iſis are: and are clothed wyth lynnen & white Barue. 6. d. 30. Ier. in Eze. 24 Herod. in Enterp. Plin.Ezek 24ſhirts as they are. They doe ſerue for all: In ſtéede of Minſtrells, ſingers, wéepers and lamenters. And euen p. 70as thoſe Panim Minſtrells did ſing pittifull and lamentable ſongs, and the euill fortunes of men, for to comfort the parents, euen ſo hauehave theſe our Prieſtes and Moonkes turned the booke of Iob into ſuche lamentacions and complaynts.The booke of Iob dedicated to the dead. Ex conc. Thol. 3. 23. q. 2. c Qui diuina.

Theophilus.

Neuertheleſſe it is concluded in the counſell of Tholet, that thoſe which are called of the Lorde from this worlde, ought to be carryed to their graue, onelyonly with ſinging of Pſalmes, the rather to witneſſe and declare that they doe not ſo mourne and lament as the Panims doe, then for any other thing, and alſo to declare the hope of the reſurrection.

Hillarius.

There was more appearaunce, in that which the Idolaters did, for they did ſing in a language vnderſtanded of all men, & if the ſongs did not ſerue any thinge to the dead, yet at the leaſt they ſerued ſomewhat to thoſe that were alyue: But the roaring and bellowing of our Prieſts and Moonkes doe ſerue neyther for the one nor the other, but onelyonly to accroche and gette to them money, and to cauſe it to come as the Birdes to the call: except peraduenture they woulde alleadge the reaſon of Macrobius which ſayth, y^e men do accōpany the dead to the graue with Macrob. in ſom. Scipi. li. 2. ca. 3.ſinging, bicauſe y^e panims beléeue after y^e y^e ſoules are ſeperated from y^• bodies, they doe follow that ſwéet harmony, & wyth the ſame goe vp to Heauen. For monye were of the opinion of Herophilus, Dicearchus, and Ariſtoxenus, Herophilus, Dicoarchus. Ariſtoxenus. Cic. Tuſc. li. 1.of whom Cicero maketh mention, who ſayd that the ſoule was not altogether nothing, or onelyonly a harmony, the which taketh pleaſure with that pleaſaunt ſinginge and melody: and goeth wyth it: And God graunt that theſe héere doe beléeue the ſoules to be immortall, and that they may hauehave a better opinion then thoſe had. And alſo as touchinge the torches that the Panims carried, ther was ſome honeſt cauſe wherfore. For they carried them partly for to kindle Torches at the funeralls. The auncient cuſtome.woode that was prepared for to burne the dead bodyes withall, bicauſe that when they were come to the place appointed & ordained for the ſame, y^e néereſt of kin did take one of thoſe torches, and kindeled the fire, as Virgile hath ſufficiently declared it, ſpeaking of the burying of Miſenus, after this manner:

In mourning ſort, ſome heaue on ſhoulders hye the mightie beere.Vir. Aene. 6.

(A dolefull ſeruice ſad) as children doe their fathers deere.

Behinde them holding bronds, thē flame vpriſing broad doth ſpred,

And oyles and dayntyes caſt, and Frankenſens the fire doth ſeede,

Alſo in ſome places they hauehave néede of them, bycauſe that they doe bury them in the night, after the law of Demetrius The lavve of of Demetrius Phalareus. Cael. Rho. le. an. li. 17. ca. 20.Phalereus, who hath ſo ordayned it for to correct the ſuperſtuous pompe and pride of thoſe exequies and funeralls: which were too exceſſiue, inſomuch that many did beſtow great coſt about them, and afterwardes they themſelues wanted: as it happeneth dayly to many, who beſtow great treaſure vppon the dead, and do dye with hunger in their houſes: nor leaue wherewith to pay their owne debtes, nor thoſe of the deade, and doe keepe backe that which is due vntounto the good people, for to giuegive it to the Prieſtes. Bicauſe of thoſe torches the Lateniſts doe call at this day the burialls Funus, bicauſe that they were made Funus Funeralia. The burialls of the Turkes.with cordes, the which they cal Funes, as they do call them yet now. But the Turkes hauehave a better order and of more appearaunce in that, then we. It is very true that they hauehave ſome things lyke to our ſuperſtlcions. For in the burying of the rich men and men of honour, their Prieſtes whome they call in their language Thalaſſanians, doe follow them a great number, according to the richneſſe and eſtate of the dead, ſinging often times this Song and Lctany: God is God, and y^e true God, & Magman the Beſſenger of God. But they hauehave this goodneſſe, that they do cauſe the Binges and Princes to buylde for ſome of them Iemples, Foundations for the poore.for others Boſpitalls. for Sepulchers and graucs, the which they enrich with great reuenewes and rentes: not for to nurriſh the idle prieſts, but for to ſucecur the neceſſitie and no d… of the poore and needy.

p. 71Euſebius.

All your matters are nothing but:ſul of mocking and ſlaunderinges. Doth not all payne and trauayle require a rewarde? Is it not good reaſon that the parents and friends, which hauehave the goodes of the dead, and become their heires, ſhould recompence the Pricſtes ſomewhat: Hath not Ieſus Chriſt ſayd that the Laborer is worthy of Lue. 10 b. 7.his rewarde? If the Prieſtes would doe that without taking any thing, the heires and friends ſhould make greate chéere with the goodes of the dead, and in the meane while the poore Prieſtes, which doe trauayle for them ſhould die of hunger: And ſo by that meanes one ſhoulde finde none that would doe. that office nor which woulde be a Prieſt.

Hillarius.

That ſhould be a great incenuenience and very euil for the Chriſtianitie, chiefely for the poore ſoules of Purgatory, who ſhoulde hauehave no more aduocates nor interceſſors betwéene God and the Uirgin Mary, for to delyuer them from thoſe paynes.

Theophilus.

I confeſſe that we muſt not mooſſell the Thoſe that are the true Miniſters are vvorthy of nurrishment. Deut. 25. a. 4. 1. Cor. 9. b 9. 1. Timoth. 5. c. 18Deut 251 Cor 91 Tim 5mouth, of the Oxe that treadeth out the corne, and it is alſo good reaſon that he that ſerueth the Goſpell, ſhoulde lyue of the Goſpell: But what trauayle doe thoſe héere take: what ſeruices doe they, eyther to the quicke or to the dead?

Hillarius.

To eate vp and deuoure their goodes and ſubſtaunce.

Theophilus.

That which you hauehave alleadged is againſt your ſelfe. For when Ieſus Chriſt ſayth that the workeman Mat. 10. b. 10.Matt 10is worthy to hauehave his meate, he ſpeaketh of the Miniſters of the Goſpell, and not of Minſtrells. He hath not commaunded the Chriſtians to féede and giuegive meate to Minſtrells for to hauehave them ſounde in their eares: but Miniſters for to preach y^e goſpel to them. He letteth vsus to vnderſtande that we muſt worke and trauayle in the Miniſterie of the Goſpell, by that that he ſayth the workeman, not the idle and ſlougthfull. Afterwardes he declareth that he would not hauehave the Miniſters of his Church couetous, 1. Timoth. 3. a. 3 l itus. l. b. 7. 1. Pet. 5. a. 2.1 Tim 31 Pet 5nor giuen to filthy lucre nor inſatiable, when he declareth that the meate is due to the Paſtours of the Goſpell, but ought to content them ſelues, as the holy Apoſtle to be cloto c…, nouriſhed and kept according to their eſtate and condition: whithout ſuper fluity, which may cauſe them to for get God, and without to great neede, which maye hinder them to exerciſe their office: But theſe here do neuer ceaſe to a…e and to catch, & yet they do no workes that ſerue for y^e health of men It wine a great deale better y^e they would The ligrification of heales Durant in Ra dui. off li 1. Rub. de camp.ſhew forth ineffect y^e which they ſaye their belles do ſignifie, then to hauehave beiles for to repreſent it. They do interpret that the ſound of their belles doth ſignifie the ſound of the word of God, the which they ought to preach vntounto the people and that the belles do ſignifie the prophets and miniſters of the goſpell, who ought to ſounde in the Church of God: But they do leaue all the charge vntounto the belles, and will not uiedle with it. HaueHave they not well prouided for the chriſtian people, good preachers?

Hillarias,

You do not vnderſtand their practiſe. They are wyſer then you thincke. Mee thinckes that men The bellsand Images the Prieſts Vicarscannot complaine of them, as touching the office of preaching; for they hauehave ſo well prouided, that one cannot rebuke them. It is verie true, that they do not preache: But they hauehave ſo many the more vicars to ſupply their office. HaueHave: they not the Churches full of Images? For you Grego. ad Sere. Epiſe. Maſsil. par. 10. Epiſt. 4.know that their Images are lay mens and ſooles bookes, as they tell vsus. But I know not what bookes they are, nor on which ſide they muſt take them to open and read in them, or whether we muſt begin at the beginning, as y^• Oreekes, Latined, Frenchmen, and others like: or at the end, and ſo go backward, & cleane cōtrary to others, as the Hebrewes and Caldes do. Wee hauehave aſſayed them, and hauehave taken very ſharpe Batchettes and Ares, for to open the leaues, which are ſo ſaſte ſtirched and glewed together, that it is impoſſible to open and ſeparate them a ſunder, except we do hew and cut them in peeces. Wee hauehave looked beefore and behinde: towardes the head and the feete, the belly and the backe, but we could neuer ſoe any letter, neither to knowe whether they were written in p. 72Greeke, Hebrew or Latine, nor yet in what language. To conclude, we find nothing there, but Mice, Pytch, Spiders, and ſuch filthyueſſe. But if they be the lay mennes books, whereto ſerueth then for them preachers, hauehave they not found them ready at hand and the moſt fytte as is poſſible to finde? Firſt of all they coulde not hauehave founde them more fitter for them. For they doe neyther eate nor drinck, nor their meate and fire coſteth them any thing. But which is more, they nurriſhe and keepe them aboute them, and do well declare, that they are not vicars without cauſe. For the offrings that they receiue, they make a good accompt, and do pay a great reuenewe to their Curate and Byſhop. Du the other ſide, ſhould not the people hauehave great wronge to complaine? For they are gracyous preaches. They neuer rebuke any man, but let eueryevery one doe as he liſſe. If the prophets, Apoſtles and miniſters of the Goſpell were ſuch pleaſant preachers, they ſhould not be ſo much hated, nor euill entreated of men, but men would offer vntounto them candels, and hyſſe their f…t, …s they do thoſe But thore is a great fault in them, for the which we muſt prouide. For not withſtangding that they hauehave, goodly Os habent & non loguentur: oculoshabent et non videbūs: manut halent & non palpebunt, pedes habent & non ambulabunt, et non clamabunt in guttere ſuo. 1. Cor. 14. b. 9. Act. 2. b. 71 Cor 14Acts 2mouthes, yet neuertheleſſe they ſpeake not, becauſe they hauehave no voyce. Wherfore they hauehave the belles for are compence, which hauehave the voyes for to ſpeake in ſtende of them although that they hauehave lſo mouthes: But the Images hauehave the countenaucos and do furniſh the mouth & the belles the voyce, for to fulfill that which is written: except ye ſpeake wordes that hauehave ſignification, howe ſhall it bee vnderſtanded what is ſpoken? For you ſhall but ſpeake in the ayre, and as a tinckling ſimball, and there is yet another ſecret, whiche eueryevery one vnderſtandeth not. All thoſe that did heare the Apoſtles in Hieruſalem vponupon the day of Pentecoſt, were cſſonyed, bicauſe that not withſtanding they were Galieans, yet neuertheleſſe all of what language ſoeuer they were of, did vnderſtand them ſpeak as if it had ben their owne & natiue tongue & comon to al the he arers. Now …aſmuch as y^e …els are the Popes & … Prieſts Apoſtls, all of them bicauſe that they hauehave not that gifte of God, would counterfayte that miracle by their belles. For they doe The belles doe ſpeake all languages.ſpeake all languages, and ſuch as it pleaſeth the hearers. And what ſounde ſoeuer they hauehave, they ſpeake that which the hearer hath in his fantaſie, as eueryevery one may knowe by experience, and I my ſelfe can witneſſe the ſame. For when I was a young childe, and that I did heare the bells towle as I went to ſchoole, I did thincke that they ſayde ſometimes that which ſome had put in my heade: Loſt labour, thou ſhalt be beate: and I was alwayes afrayd that they had ſayd true. Euen ſo it happened vntounto a widow who The vvidovve aſked counſel of the belles.deſired much to marry, but ſhe was aſhamed to tell it, therfore he ſent hir to the belles whome ſhe aſked counſayle, knowing well hir affection, and that ſhe would doe but that which was in hir fantaſie, whatſoeuer counſayle one gaue vntounto hir. When it was appoynted that ſhe ſhould heare the counſayle that the bells gaue vntounto hir, ſhe thought that they ſayd vntounto hir: Marry thée: afterwards when ſhe was marryed, and that hir huſbande which was verye iealous had well beaten hir for goyng or gaddinge abroade many times, and had well druſed hir bones, ſéeing that that feaſt ſhould alwayes laſt, ſhe rebuked him that did giuegive hir that counſayle: and ſayd vntounto him: My friende you hauehave not well vnderſtanded the bells: Goe preſently and giuegive good eare; and you ſhall ſée if they ſaye not the contrary: the which ſo happened. For bicauſe that hir fantaſie was paſt ſhe did thincke that the belles ſayd: Marry not. Wherefore I conclude that I hauehave ſufficiently proued mine intention, and that the Prieſtes hauehave very well prouided for vsus Preachers, and ſuch as appertayne vntounto vsus: of whom we ought to content our ſelues. For fooles woulde alwayes that one ſhould counſell them after their owne fantaſie. And bicauſe that we are fooles, we deſire ſuch Preachers which ſpeake after our owne fantaſie. But we cannot better finde them but at the belles.

Theophilus.

It was commaunded in the lawe, that when the highe Biſhop entred into the Sanctuary, that he was clothed with a gowne p. 73of Iacinte, which had Bels & Pomgranards hanging at y^e The Pomegranards and belles that did hang vponupon the veſtmēt of the high Prieſt. Exo. 28. e. 34.Exod 28hems. By which things I cannot vnderſtand, but y^e by the Pomgranardes which are of a ſwéete ſauour, the Lorde would figure Ieſus Chriſt, who hath bene to him a ſacrifice of a ſwéet ſauour: And admoniſheth all the true paſtors of his Church, to be by their holy life & conuerſation, a ſwéet ſauour of the Goſpel vntounto the poore and ſimple people, as S. Paul ſayth, that he hath bene. By the Belles, that the high Prieſt ought to be heard when he entreth into y^e ſanctuary, nor I doubt not but that alſo hée hath figured the preaching of the Goſpell, by the which Ieſus Chriſt and his Apoſtles hauehave awakened all the worlde: and after theire Ori. in Exo. 28 e. 34.Exod 28example all the good ſhepheards of the Church and flock of Chriſt ought to doe, as Origine doth expounde it, ſayinge: That the high prieſt ſhould alſo hauehave round Bels about his beſtment, y^e he entring into the Sanctuary, ſhould be heard, and that he ſhould not enter with ſilence. And thoſe Bels which ought alwayes to ſounde, are put in the hemme of the beſtment, and that is to that ends that thou ſhouldeſt neuer holde thy peace vntill the ende of the worlde, but that alwayes thou bée hearde thereby, that thou doe diſpute, and ſpeake, as hée which ſayth: Remember the ende or the latter thinges, and thou ſhalt not ſinne. Beholde the expoſition of Origine, the which I would gladlye they woulde followe, and that they woulde conſider that ſith that the time of ceremonies is paſt, we hauehave no more néede of their Belles, for to figure vntounto vsus that which hath bene figured of the high Prieſt: But y^e in ſtéede of the figure & ſhadow, they would giuegive vntounto vsus the veritie of the thinges figured, after the example of Ieſus Chriſt, and of his Apoſtles: or if they will yet kéepe and holde vsus in ſhadowes and figures, it is better for thē to follow thoſe of Moſes, then to inuent & make for vsus new, as they do. For they cannot finde better, nor more proper: If they doe ring or towle theyre Belles, for to call the people together to the Churche, for to preach vntounto them the woord of God: or when any man is dead, for to admoniſh eueryevery one of mans infirmitie & weakneſſe, & to preach onto them the iudgment of God. & to teach eueryevery one how he ought to prepare himſelfe to dye, and to confirme & ſtrengthen them in the hope of the reſurrection, declaring vntounto them that the bloude of Ieſus Chriſt is the true Purgatory of the ſoules, and that there is none other, their ringing and ſinging would hauehave a little more appearance, and ſhould be more conformable to the auncient Church: But they do it altogether for none other ende but to induce and leade the people to ſuperſtition, and for to ſtrengthen them in their opinion of purgatory, making thē Durant in Radiui. off. li. 1. Rub. de camp. & 4. li Rub. de ac. pont. ad alt. The, bells to driue away diuels. The banner & the croſſe.to pray for the dead, without any word of God. But do they not yet alledge an other goodly reaſon, ſayinge: that they doe ring their Bels in their proceſſions, funerals, and at other times, to that ende to make the diuels afraide, and to compell them to flée: For they ſay that thoſe are the trumpets of the Church militant, of which the Dyuell hath as great feare, as a tyrant hath whē he heareth that one giueth him the Larame, and as the ſounde of the Trumpets and Drummes of a puiſſaunt King or Prince, which is his enemy, and come for to diſcomfort him: For that cauſe ſay they, doe they carry the banner and the croſſe, and that they cauſe the Bells to bée ronge and towled for the tempeſts, and alſo for to admoniſh the people to pray vntounto God: But it were a great deale better that they would make ſuche admonitions Ephe. 6. c. 10Eph 6by the preaching of the Goſpell, and that they woulde arme the people with the buckler of faith, & weapon them with the ſwoord of the ſpirite, which is the woord of God, for to defend them againſt the Diuell, & to driue him away. For theſe are the true weapons, which the Diuell feareth, and which S. Paul giueth to the Chriſtian knight.

Hillarius.

If that little children, or any olde dreamers and fooles had held y^e opinion, one could not but laugh: But is it not great ſhame that ſuch men who would be eſtéemed and counted the pyllers of the fayth, would forge and inuent ſuch a Theology? But hauehave they not good leaſure to baptize the Belles? Is The baptiſing of bells.not that to mooke and ſcoffe with Ieſus Chriſte and hys baptiſme, to baptize Braſſe and inſenſible mettalles? p. 74The aduenturers or vagabondes whiche baptized a Calfe, and called him a pyke for to eate him in Lente in ſtéede of a fiſhe, hadde not they more cauſe to doe for I doe, iudge that they thincke that one can driue awaye the Dyuelles as they doe the byrdes from the vanes. If the Dyuelles were lyke vntounto the Bées, they woulde ſtaye them rather: And I doe feare that it happeneth ſo well vntounto them. For as farre as we can perceiue by their workes, there is not a people that hath ſo manye Dyuelles aboute them. But you hauehave lette Durant. in diui. off. ſi. 1. Rub de camp.out the beſte, that is, they ſaye that at the ſolempne feaſtes wée muſte ringe muche, and a longe time for to awaken the drunckardes, and thoſe that ſléepe. But will you hauehave mée tell you the true interpretation of The true ſignification of the belles.their Bels? Conſider the forme & faſhion of a Bell. It hath a little head, but it hath the greater belly. Wherefore I cannot vnderſtand, according to the Morrall, Allegoricall or Anagogicall ſence, but that they doo ſignifie that they are no other thing but fatte and ſlouthfull bellyes, and that they Slouthfull bellyes.paſſe not on the head, but onelyonly on the belly. And euen as they are but bellies, they doe alſo very well knowe that other men doe louelove more the belly then the head, & notwithſtanding that all hauehave a goodly belly, and louelove it well, there are but a fewe which care much for the head, the brayne, wit and vnderſtanding, nor which take any thought to hauehave it. Wherefore I beléeue that they hauehave determined ſo much to ringe theire Belles, that they maye breake altogether the heade of thoſe whiche hauehave yet a verye lyttle, to that ende, that neyther wytte nor vnderſtandinge myght abyde in them. In ſuche ſorte that wée maye well make it a Prouerbe, as well as the auncientes hauehave made it of the Baſinnes, Caudrons and Belles of Dodonaeus. Beholde the trueſt expoſition friende Dodonaeum asdodonaes lebetes Zenodot. ex Ariſtoph.Euſebius that I can at this time gyue vntounto thée: And thincke not that thou canſt gyue vntounto mée a better nor more proper: excepte peraduenture thou wylte ſaye, that they dooe the ſame after the immitation of the Gallots, Curets, and Corybants, Prieſtes of the Goddeſſe The Prieſts cl Cyble.Cyble the mother of Gods, whome they doe carrye vppon their ſhoulders in their proceſſions, ſounding of Cymballes, Herodot. Diodor.Drummes, Belles, and other ſuch inſtrumentes, which doe make a great noyſe, wyth the crye and ſound of their Letanyes, which they goe ſinginge after: as manye Apule. de Aſini li. 11. Lactan. lib. ca. 21. The feaſt and proceſſion of Cible.auncient Authours doe witneſſe, as well Panims as Chriſtians, namely Lactantius which alledgeth ſome verſes of Ouid, who among others, in a few woordes ſpeaking of hir feaſt, comprehendeth all theſe things, ſaying:

Then foorthwith ſhalbe heard the home,Ouid Faſt. 4.

of Berecynthia blow,

Of Cyble graundame of the Gods,

thapproching feaſt to ſhow.

And Eunuches playing vponupon Drums,

whoſe noiſe the aire doth fill,

And ringing out the braying blaſt,

of Trumpet ſounding ſhrill.

She on their ſhoulders ſitting ſoft,

is borne about the Towne,

By Prieſtes and ſeruaunts of hir owne,

with noiſe and ſhriching ſowne.

Epiphanius that good and learned Byſhop and of great eſtimation among the auncients, did write a booke, that hée Epiphanius.made of hereſies, ſaying, that ther were in his time, ſome women of Siria who did begin to carry in that ſort the Image of the Virgin Mary and offered vntounto it oblations: But hée Idolatry of the image of our Lady.ſaith that the ſame ſuperſtition and Idolatry was repreſſed and beaten downe through the diligence of good Biſhops & paſtors, knowing that the ſame was none other thing, but an imitation of the furor and madneſſe of the Panims.

Wherefore Epiphanius, numbreth that errour in the Roule of the hereſies that hée hath made. And yet neuertheleſſe our Prieſts hauehave not ceaſed therefore to put it foorth, and more greater Idolatry then euer was among the Prieſts p. 75of Cyble and Iſis, after whoſe example they doe carrye their Idolls, Relicks, Hearſes and Shrines, and for to declare that they are their ſucceſſours, they hauehave theire heads ſhauen, & their ſurples: & many other ornaments of lynnen and white cloth, as thoſe had, as the Poet ſayth:

Attending on the goddeſſe then, the crue both great and ſmall,Ouid.

Are clad in lynnen garments whyte, to honour hir vvithall.

And agayne he ſayth.

Theſe ſhauen Prieſts in white arayd, enſued the Goddeſſe grace,

And making noyſe with ſound of Droms, did follow hir a pace.

Foraſmuch then as it is thought that they make Diuells afrayde, and driue them away by the ſounde of the belles, thoſe there then oughte to make them tremble and quake. Wherefore I thinke that foraſmuch as our Prieſtes doe ſay that their belles are the Trompettes of the great King, and that their ſtreamers that they carry in their Proceſſions, are his Enſeigns and Banners, they ought alſo to carry and ſound Drommes and Trumpets, for to make it better appeare vntounto the Diuell, that they wil ioyne a ſtrong battaile with him, & that they come not with falſe Enſeignes, & that their quarrell is not the ſport and play of lyttle children, and that they will not ſuffer Iuuena. Ft ingēs ſemiturobſcoeno ſacies reuerenda minori. Mollia qui capta ſecuit genitalia testa. Diſt. 36. ca. 1l. literatos Diſt. 55. ca. ſi. quis To ring for the time.the auncient cuſtome of their olde aunceſtours and predeceſſours to bée abolyſhed whome we hauehave of late named, from whome they doe not much differ as touchinge their Ceremonyes: But the moſt greate difference that I can finde, is, that theſe héere are not ſo chaſt as the others are, bicauſe they are not gelded as they are. For that ſhould be agaynſt their orders and Canons, and manye women would be barren, if we had not ſuch Saintes for to make them beare children. And as touching that that they doe ring their belles agaynſt the time of thunderinges, lyghtenings and tempeſts, and that they doe coniure them, they cannot deny but in the ſame they do follow the Panims, who had their exorciſmes, coniuratione, ringinges and other manner of doings agaynſt them, which did not much differ from thoſe of theſe héere. It is very true that the Ariſioph. in Veſp. Quod ſi fulguraro popiſſant.Panims had not ſuch belles, bicauſe they were not then vſed as they are now: But in ſteade of them they clapped their hands the one agaynſt an other for to make an noyſe, & made a noyſe with their mouthes, for to appeaſe Piin. li. 28. c. 2. Fulgura popiſi nis adorare cō ſenſus gentium eſt. Holy vvoode. Remedyes againſt y^e lyghtning. The Baye tree. The ſea Calues The Eagle. Plin. li, 2. c. 55and quallyfie the thundrings and lyghtenings, after the manner as men doe clap their horſes and make much of them, thinking that the ſame would ſerue in ſteade of a remedy, that the lyghtening ſhould not ſtrike them. Some did carry of the Baye trée, in ſtéede whereof we did carry woode, leaues and boughes and braunches of trées that had ben halowed vponupon Palme Sunday, & of Eaſter flowers, or the ſkinnes of Sea Calues, bicauſe that among all the Sea beaſtes, men ſaye that lyghteninge will not touch the ſea Calfe, nor the Eagle among the ſoules.

Thomas.

And for what ſerued the Baye trée?

Hillarius.

They had this opinion, that lyghtning would neuer fall vppon it, nor could ſtrike it, as almoſt all thoſe y^e hauehave written of his propertie & nature doe witneſſe it. They had alſo the arte and manner to coniure the tempeſts, To coniure the time Iupiter. Elicius. Ouid. Faſt. 3. Numa Pompilius.and to make the God Iupiter come from heauen, for to adiure them and driue them away: the which they had learned and receiued of Numa Pompilius the ſecond king of the Romaynes.

Theophilus.

I doe not finde in the Scripture that the people of God euer vſed ſuch ſorceries & coniurings, nor y^e they euer had any recourſe to candels, holy water, holy wood, y^e bay trée, to the bells nor to y^e coniurations, for to driue away y^e lyghtnings & tempeſt. For y^t Tibullus. Hane ego ducentem de coelo ſydera vidi: Fluminis haec rapidi carmine vertutur. Quum libet haec triſts do…el lit nubila culo.appertayneth better vntounto the Magicians, Sorcerers, & Enchaūtors, who do attribute vntounto themſelues the power to moue y^e heauen and earth, to moue & ſtir vp y^e lyghtnings & tempeſts, & to appeaſe them, & to plucke y^e Moone and the Stars from heauen. But the true ſeruaunts of God, in all daungers & perils, or if y^e heauē hath ben ſhut vp, ſo y^t it giueth no rayne: or if it ſendeth hayles, thūders & tempeſts: p. 67or it famine, plague, or drought hauehave bene on the earthe: Quum libet aeſtiuo prouocat orbe niuerif the corne hauehave bene deſtroyed, or the Locuſts & Caterpillers hauehave deſtroyed the goodes of the earth: or if they hauehave bene afflicted with any other kinde of plague or malady, they vſe none other remedy but to tourne themſelues to God only with prayers, with true repentaunce of the ſinnes and amendment of lyfe. And y^e Lord hath alwaies heard them, according to the requeſt y^e Salomon made vntounto 3. Reg. 8. a. 1 2. Cro. 5. a. 11 Kgs 8him, when he dedicated to him his Temple.

Hillarius.

They make me to remember thoſe mockers and diſpiſers of God, which were among the Panims, who did clappe their féet together agaynſt y^e thunders & tempeſts, & for to Oppedere contra tonitiua. Salmoneut. Virg. Aeneid. 6 Vidi & crudelem dantem. Salmonia penas Dum ſlammas louis & ſouitus imitutur Olympi. The minſtrels …airus. Mat. 9 c 18. Mar. 5. c. 12 Luc. 8. f 41Matt 9Mark 5Luke 8ſhew themſelues more wicked, did open their bellyes againſt them, in mocking & ſcoffing it: Of which theſe prouerbs do yet continue. Euen ſo it ſéemeth y^e thoſe woulde mocke God, & counterfet theſe thunders as Salmoneus did.

Euſebius

You can declare and ſet forth vntounto me nothinge but the Panims. But wherefore doe you not alleadge vntounto me aſwell y^e minſtrells, and the ſingings, which y^• Iſraelites, that were y^e people of God, vſed in their burialls? As it appeared by thoſe which were in y^• houſe of Iairus the chiefe ruler of y^e Sinagoue when his daughter was dead, whom Ieſus rayſed to lyfe agayn, & yet he rebuked not the miniſtrells: the which he would not hauehave omitted if he had iudged the ſame to be euil. Wherefore may we not hauehave aſwell bells & Prieſtes for to ſing, as thoſe had The Prieſts Minſtrels.minſtrels, for to incite & prouoke them to lamentacions & compaſſion vponupon the dead, & to pray to God for them with a better courage?

Theophilus.

You come to the ende of my matter, & by that compt the Prieſts doe ſerue vsus in ſtéede of minſtrels. But it is to be feared that Ieſus will driue them out of his Church, as he auoyded out thoſe of Iairus out of the chamber and houſe. For he will not hauehave Prieſts for the dead, nor he ſent his Apoſtles and Diſciples, but for thoſe that be alyue. For y^e true Euangelical Prieſts & Miniſters of the Church, ought to be lyke vntounto the Phiſitians, who are alwayes aſſiſtaunt vntounto men aſmuch as they can, and A compariſoa of tue true Prieſtes and Phin…ous.help and ſuccour them aſmuch as is poſſible during their lyfe for to kéepe them in healthe, or to heale them when they are ſicke, but after that they be dead, they hauehave no more to doe. For they cannot ayde nor helpe them any more, therefore they doe to them no more afterwards. But our Prieſtes are Phiſitians, who ſuffer their Patients to dye, without helping them, after they will bring vntounto them medicines when they are dead: But Ieſus Chriſt would hauehave no ſuch: as he hath giuen vsus to vnderſtande by the aunſwere that he made to one of his diſciples, which aſked him leaue to goe and bury his father, ſaying: Suffer the Mat. 6. c. 12. It vvas forbidden the Prieſtes to be aſſiſtaunt at the buriall of the dead. Leuit. 21. 2. 1.Matt 6Lev 21:2Lev 21:1dead to bury their dead. But what appearaunce is there, that Ieſus Chriſt would occupy y^e Miniſters of his church, and the true Cuangelycall Prieſtes about the dead, ſith that God woulde not onelyonly ſuffer that the high Prieſte of the lawe, and the other Prieſtes ſhould goe to the burials nor that they ſhould come nye any dead bodyes, except they were their fathers or mothers, or any of their nigh kinſmenne? The which thing he pernutted not to the highe Prieſt. The chaunce ſhould be much chaunged, and the Goſpell ſhould hauehave made vsus Prieſtes very contrary and differing much from thoſe of the people of God. For wée doe not reade that euer they medled with the deade, nor that they prayed nor offred ſacrifices for thē, notwithſtanding y^e they were vnderunder the ſhadows & figures of the law, and in the time of the ſacrifices, which now thorow Ieſus Chriſt are abolyſhed. And our Prieſts doe ſerne vsus alwayes for none other thinge, but to bóe letted about the dead.

Hillarius.

It were a great deale better to hire the minſtrells and lamenters as the auncients dyd, then to nurriſh and féede ſo many fat bellyes, with ſo great dayntyes, and coſts. For we ſhould pay them no mony but when we do ſet them to worke, and they will ſerue vsus aſmuch as thoſe our Prieſtes, whome we muſt kéepe all the yeare longe, with great coſtes, charges and expeuces. I doubt not but p. 77that Moſes did well foreſee that. Therefore hath he thorow the ſpirite of God forbidden, that the Prieſtes ſhould not be preſent at the burials. I had rather that they would doe as the Aegyptians did, who did put the body of their Diodorus The cuſtome of the Aegyptians.king, when he was dead, before the entring in of the graue or ſepulcher, afterwardes did reade a lyſtle booke contayning his actes, and that which the king had done during his lyfe. And he that would might diſprayſe them. The Prieſts were there preſent, who did examine an iudge of all the poynts. The people alſo were there preſent, and did clap their hands and reioyce at the praiſes of the king, and did vituperate and diſprayſe the vyces. The ſame gaue a certeyne feare vntounto the kinges and Princes that they ſhould not abuſe their office, and did admoniſh them to be vertuous if they would hauehave prayſe of men. for it did chaunce ſome times, that the king lyued ſo wickedly and deteſtable, that they did iudge him vnworthy to be buryed. The lyke did they of other men. In lyke manner the Greekes and Latines had a cuſtome to prayſe the bertuous The Grekes & Latines Panegyres Orationer fune bres. A cuſtome to praiſe the deademen after their death, & to make Drations in their prayſe, aſwell for the conſolation and comforte of their parents, as for to incitate and moue others vntounto vertue, by theire examples. For that cauſe they doe rehearſe their proweſſes, their vertues and valyauntneſſe. And to make an honeſt mention at ſometime for to encourage others to bée vertuous. Thucidides witneſſeth, that y^e cuſtome to praiſe the dead did begin among the Greekes by Pericles, who Pericles.was the firſt that openly made an oration in the prayſe of thoſe which were dead in the warre of Peloponenſe. Alſo among the Romaines, Valerius Publicola was the firſt, Valerius Public…la.which after that manner prayſed his companion Brutus, as witneſſeth Titus Liuius. Afterwards that cuſtome hath continued among the Gentiles & Idolaters, If our Prieſts would ſerue vsus in that ſtead, the thing would be more tollerable: although y^e we hauehave the word of God ſufficient inough for to merte & moue vsus vntounto vertue & honeſtie: But they ſerue vsus to none other ende but to eaſe, and the greateſt thoeues and vſurers, are thoſe vntounto whom they doe the greateſt honours, and giuegive the greateſt prayſes, and doe bury them with greateſt magnificence. But if any poore man doe bye, that hath not readye money, ſcant and with muche a doe ſhall hee hauehave one Prieſt ſor to beare him companye, nor one ſcant to ringe the lyttle bell.

Theophilus.

There is no doubt but y^e the auncient Chriſtians, bicauſe y^e ſome were come of the Iewes, & ſome of y^• panims, hauehave yet hept many of the manners and cuſtomes that they vſed in their countryes, the which yet neuertheleſſe they hauehave chaunged into a better vſe. For the Iewes and Panims had many things, which of thē ſelues might be tollerable, and to ſerue to ſome kinde of honeſtie and cluilitie, if the ſuperſticion and the fooliſh opinions had bene taken away. In the auncient Churche Commemoratiō of the dead.when that any faythfull man was dead béeing conſtant in the fayth of Ieſus Chriſt, and that he made a goodly confeſſion in his death, they vſed to make a commemoration to the congregation, for to incite and ſtirre vp others to ſuch faithe and conſtantneſſe, and chiefely when he hath bene killed by the Tyrants, and that he hath bene the true Commemoratiō of y^• Martirsmartir of Ieſus Chriſt, & in the mids of his torments hath conſtantlye confeſſed the truthe, and hath witneſſed it by his death, and ſealed it by his bloude. For that cauſe the Notaries and pronotaries. Plati. in vit. Clem Ant he. lul. & Fabi.Notaryes and Protonotaryes were conſtituted and appoynted, who were charged to write truely and after the truth the Eccleſiaſticull hiſtoryes, the lyues and dooings of the holy Martirs, & true ſeruaunts of God, for the edification of the Church and congregation: for at certein times they made commemoration vntounto the Congregation of the fayth and conſtantneſſe of the Martirs, for to comforte and for teſie the poore faythfull in the middes of the perſecutions that they ſuffered for Ieſus Chriſt, to the ende that after the example of the Martirs, they ſhoulde prepare themſelues rather to dye valyantly for the witneſſe of the truth, then to renounce and forſake it. And p. 78the Dration and Sermon that Saint Ambroſe made for Ambroſe and Theodoſius.the Emperour Theodoſius after that he was dead, tended to none other ende. And when the good auncient byſhops prayſed after that ſorte the good ſeruants of God, that had faithfully trauailed in his worke & vyneyard, they did go about no other thing by that meanes, but to edifie the congregation with good examples, euen as the holy prophets and Apoſtles hauehave deſcribed vntounto vsus y^e holy ſcriptures, the liues and actes of holy men, which hauehave bene called of God, for to inſtruct and teach vsus by their example. This manner of doing was not altogether to be deſpiſed, and it might be practiſed to ediflcation, if ſathan the enemie vntounto all goodneſſe had not altogether conuerted and turned it into ſuperſtition, Idolatry, and blaſphemie, as wee ſee and proue it dayely. For from thoſe beginninges the Prothonotaries are deſcended, whome wée hauehave yet at this preſent time, who keepe onelye the name Prot honotaries of name.without exerciſing the office. For to what ende doe they ſerue vsus?

Hillatius.

To hunt after and ſo laye wayte for benefyces. What woulde you they ſhoulde doe, woulde you hauehave them to wrytte and regiſter the lyues of our Popes, Cardinals, Byſhoppes, Prieſts and Moonkes? They will leaue the charge of that The legend of the Papiſts.vntounto the Lutheriaus, whiche are their protonotaries, for to deſcribe and paint out the legend of ſuch ſaints and Martyrs of Venus, rather then of Ieſus Chriſte. For theyr lyfe and conuerſation is ſo holy, that they had rather that men woulde neuer ſpeake of it, and that the remembraunce thereoff ſhoulde bée altogether defaced and forgotten. Yet I thincke that they rendered no greate thanckes vntounto Platine who hathe wrytten ſo muche, althoughe that he tourned the ſayeſt ſide outwardes as Platinsnigh as hée coulde.

Theophilus.

Thys is yet the leaſte faulte of the Prothonotaries: But from that ſame fountayne is riſen and ſprong vp the errour of inuocation of Saints, The errour touching the honour & inuocation of ſaintsof feaſts, wanderings, bleſſings, relycks, pilgrimages, and all other Idolatry and ſuperſticions, which men do commit dayly about the Saints. For wheras in the auncient Church men did but onelyonly make mention of the lyfe, faith and conſtantneſſe of the Martirs and Saynts when the people aſſembled themſelues in the Eccleſiaſticall aſſemblyes, without inuocating or praying to the Saynts, but onelyonly vntounto God: Afterwards in proceſſe of time, the ſuperſticious and Idolatrous Chriſtians, hauehave made of the Saynts Gods, and hauehave dedicated to them, Feaſts, Temples, Aultars and Chappells. And hauehave begonne to ſing Canenization Herodia.Himnes and ſuperſticious ſongs in their honour & prayſe, after the ſame manner as the Panims and Idolaters did to their Binges and Emperours, when they Ca…onized them. And are not content to preach their lyues and Legende, as the auncients did: but hauehave added vntounto it fables and lyes. and hauehave made to them Maſſes, in ſuch ſort, that Maſſes of ſaintsfor one ſupper of Ieſus Chriſt, we hauehave more then thrée hundreth nullyons of Maſſes, all contrary and differinge the one from the other. By that meanes the Prophecie, the preaching of the worde of God, the Supper of Ieſus Chriſt, Prayers, and Eccleſiaſticall aſſemblyes, and the true commemoration of the Saints, are altogether abolyſhed, in ſuch ſorte that there is nothing, but that it is altogether peruerted and tourned into more greater ſuperſtition and Idolatry, then euer it was among the Panims. As much happened about y^e other faythful that dye, which are not counted for Canomſed Saynts. For as on the one The original & beginning of y^e prayers lot the dead.ſide they are giuen to inuocat & pray to the Saynts, whom they beléeue to bée in Heauen: Euen ſo on the other ſide, they giuegive themſelues to praye for the deade, whom they thinke to hauehave yet neede of their prayers and good deedes, for to helpe them, and to prepare the waye to Heauen, … ſteede of the ſimple commemoration y^• they did in y^• auncient Chruch, without vſing praiers for the health of their ſoules. but only exhortatiōn, adm…nitions & conſclatiōs, for p. 79the health and ſaluation of thoſe that be aliue. After that manner ought we to vnderſtand that whiche the auncient Eccleſiaſticall doctors hauehave written of the faythfull that dye, and of the care that we ought to hauehave of them. And if peraduenture it be ſo that Sainct Ambroſe, Criſoſtome, Cyprian, Hierome, Auguſtine, or any other the like, doe ſéeme to hauehave written otherwiſe, yet neuertheleſſe they will not allow ſuch ſuperſtition as is at this day amonge the Chriſtians: And although they ſhould hauehave done it, yet we are not bound to bel…eue them, without the authoritye of the Scripture. We are moſt certaine of our ſide, that there is no place in all the holy ſcripture, by which one can proue that manner of dooing, except one will marre and peruert the ſence thereof. And for to declare the ſame more playnly, I demaund of thée, what the Prieſtes do in the name of the dead, doe they it for thoſe whiche are in hell?

Euſebius.

Thou mayſt well perceiue they doe it not. For they themſelues do ſing, that in hell there is no redemption, Quia in inferno nulla est redemptio. Luc. 16. g. 26.Luke 16as it is playnly declared vntounto vsus by the aunſwer that Abraham made vntounto the wicked ryche man, ſaying that there is a greate ſpace betwéene thoſe whiche are in the places of bleſſedneſſe, and thoſe whiche are in hell fire, vntounto whom the riche cannot hauehave ſomuch only as one droppe of water for to put vponupon his toungue for to coole it.

Theophilus.

HaueHave thoſe who are alreadye in Paradiſe with the bleſſed any profit, of their ſuffrages and prayers.

Euſebius.

They hauehave no more néede of them.The Prieſts doe not pray but for thoſe which are in Paradiſe.

Theophilus.

And yet neuertheleſſe they pray not but for thoſe that be there, and I will take none other witnes then themſelues to proue it. I pray thée conſider and examine wel the Epiſtle taken out of the Reuclation of S. Iohn, which they ſing in their Maſſe for the dead & marke viligently howe it agréeth with their Lugentibus in Purgatorio: And how is it poſſible that the faithfull that dye ſhould be roſted and tormented in Purgatorye, and that they ſhould be at reſt, as they ſing both the one and the other, ſpeaking againſt themſelues. They ſing: Bleſſed are Apoc. 14. c. 13 Beati mortui qui in Dommo moriuntur. A modo iam di… it ſpiritus, vsus reauteſant a laboribus ſuis. Opera en…m lilorum ſequuntur illos. The eſtate of the faithfull that doe dyeRev 14thoſe which hereafter dye in our Lorde, euen ſo ſaith the ſpirite, that they do reſt from their laboures, But theyr workes ſhall follow them. Firſt they ſay: Bleſſed are they which dye in the Lord. And who be thoſe that dye in the Lord, but the good, faithfull and the Chriſtians? If they then are bleſſed, all the other which do not dye: in the fayth of our Lord, are curſed.

Euſebius.

I denie it not.

Theophilus.

Wherein conſiſteth that bleſſedneſſe and felicitie? doth not Sainct Iohn giuegive the reaſon, alleaging not his authority, but the authority of he ſpirite of God, that he himſelfe hath heard? ſaying: hereafter they reſt from their laboures. Thou doeſt well perceiue that they are called bleſſed, bicauſe that by death they go and depart from the trauayles and wickedneſſe of this world, and after the ſame doe go into eternall reſt and ioy, Syth then that it is ſo, what neede they anye longer to ſing: Requiem eternam dona eis domine: O Lord giuegive them eternall reſt, ſyth that they hauehave it alreadye? For they doe not pray but for thoſe which are dead in our Lord.

Euſebius.

Thou interpreteſt the ſcripture for thine aduauntage and as it pleaſeth thée.

Hillarius.

Euſebius is always a good Gregorianiſt. But I do greatly feare y^• he Gregorianiſts.ſhall not eſcape Purgatory in the ende.

Euſebius.

You ſhall not yet plucke it out of my handes for all that. For Sainct Iohn ſpeaketh there properly, of the faithfull, which hauehave ſuffred, and which hauehave bene killed for the witnes of the truth. For thoſe hauehave ſuffred ſufficiently in this world, and hauehave had their Purgatorie. and accompliſned their penaunce. He ſpeaketh not generally of all the Chriſtians, but only of the Martirs, whom the greate beaſt hath perſecuted.

Theophilus.

I agree vntounto thee that the holy ſpirit ſpeaketh that, chiefely for the conſolation of the poore that be afflicted, whiche ſuffer perſecution for the name of Ieſus, p. 80promiſing vntounto them reſt, after the trauayles and wickedneſſe of this mortall life, for to fortefie and ſtrengthen them in the croſſe, to that end they may be more patient in tribulation, and that they ſhoulde perſeuer and continue boldlye and ſtedfaſtly vntounto the ende. But you can not denye, but y^• the ſentence is generall, and that it comprehendeth all the faithfull. For they cannot bee faithfull without bearing rightly the croſſe of Ieſus Chriſt, and without hauing great paine and trauayle, after whiche they looke for reſt. And leaſt thou ſhouldeſt thinke that I hauehave alledged that place euill to the purpoſe, I will tell thée yet farther, that it maketh not onelye Purgatorie to fall downe, but alſo the inuocation of Saincts. For ſith that roſt from The inuoca… tion of ſaintstheir labours is promiſed vntounto the Saincts, and that the prayers whiche the holy men make for their neighboures, whileſt they are in this life, are compriſed and contayned amongſt the laboures of the ſainctes, we may conclude, that …fter that they hauehave ended the courſe of this mortall life, and finiſhed their combat, that they reſt them that laboure as well as the other. For they hauehave no more neede but to prayſe God, and to giuegive him thankes, and oughte no more to be occupied for to ſerue men, ſith that they are out of all neceſſitie, and that they hauehave ended the miniſtry that they had amonge menne. At the leaſtwiſe, althoughe that it bee, wée hauehave not in all the holy ſcripture. example nor yét authority, for to endure and léad vsus to inu…cate them: But we hauehave not now to debate vponupon that poynt, I hauehave onelye deſired to touche the ſame by the waye. As to the other matter, touch … Purgatory, for to take front thee that fantaſie whiche thou hauehave againſt… my interpretation. I will confyrme it vntounto thée by the verye interpretatyou of the Prieſtes, taken from the chiefeſt of the Canon of theyr Maſſe. Marke well the Memento that they ſaye when they ſing Maſſe for the dead.

Hillarius.

Peraduenture hoe will not heare thée bicauſe he is altayd to be excommunicatod. And alſo hel… da…e you recyte it… For you know verye well that it is forbidden The Canon of the Maſſe & the Ale…ron are forbidden to be read.vnderunder paine of excommunication to all thoſe that bée not Prieſtes, to reade the Canon, and to recyte it.

Theophilus.

Aſwell is the Alcoran of Mahomet, vnderunder paine of death: But I will not be a frayd to read it for all that if I had it. For I buylde my ſelfe vponupon S. Paul, which ſayth: Cramine all things and kéepe that whiche 1. Theſſ…. 5. …. 21.is good.

Thomas.

But it is otherwiſe of the Canon of the Maſſe for it is to be feared, that if the lay people ſhoulde heare the ſacramentall wordes pronounced, they woulde doe as the Prieſt, and that thereby would come greate hurte. As Clythoueus doth declare and witnes moſte euidently in his Clith. Eluci. li. 3. de. Cano.Clucidatory by the example of certaine Shepehardes, who bicauſe they hauehave heard and kept in mind the ſacramental wordes, did put bread vponupon a ſtone, afterwardes they pronounced the wordes. That bread (as they ſaye) was conuerted and changed into fleſhe, after the pronunciation of & wordes. But fire and lightning fell ſodeinly downe from heauen vponupon them and killed them all.

Hillarius,

The witneſſe is well worthy of the Doctor, from whom it procéeded. But he is not the firſt that hath inuented that fable. For Durant and others, that hauehave written of that matter dothe almoſte all of them alledge it.

Theophilus.

Wherefore then hath Ieſus Chriſt commaunded Rat. diui. off. li. 4. Nico. de plone. in tract. ſacerd The Goſpell published to all men Mat. 26. b. 26. Mar. 14. h. 13 Luc 22. h 19 1. Cor. 11. c. 24.Matt 26Mark 14Luke 221 Cor 11that his Goſpell ſhoulde bee preached vntounto all creatures, without excepting eyther the lay people or the ignorant, vntounto whom yet neuertheleſſe the ſupper is recited all at length? Wherefore hath not he warned his Apoſtles to keepe thoſe wordes ſecret? And wherefore hauehave they publiſhed and written it all at length in their Goſpel bookes, which ought to be in the handes of all Chriſtians? Is the Canon of the Maſſe more worthy & more holy then the holy Goſpell of Ieſus Chriſt?

Euſebius.

ye ought not to ieſt or mocke: For you doe not yet know that God doth behold you. What ſayeſt thou p. 81of the Canon and Memento of the dead? Art thou ſo fooliſh and bolde that thou wilt finde fault wyth it?

Theophilus.

Firſt make what it conteineth, and after The Memento of the dead. Nemento eliā Domine famili orum & familiarum que tuarū N. qui nos proceſſerunt cum ſigno fidei & dormiunt in ſō no pacis † ipſis domine & omnibus in Chriſto quie ſeētibtes locum refrigerij lucis & pacis vt indulgeas de precamur. per eundem dominum Ieſum Chriſtum. Amen. A true hiſtory.thou ſhalt vnderſtand what I will ſay?

Euſebius.

I am very well content. For I am very ſure that you ſhal finde nothing to reproue me.

Theophilus.

I will recite it vntounto ſhee worde for worde, that thou ſhouldeſt not thincke that I hauehave eyther added or diminiſhed any thing for mine own pleaſure: Remember O Lord thy men ſeruants and thy women ſeruaunts, who hauehave gone before vsus with the ſigne of faith and doe reſt in the ſléepe of peace, We beſ…ech thée O Lord, that it would pleaſe thée to graunte vntounto them and vntounto all thoſe that reſt in Chriſt, place of comfort, lyght and peace, through our Lord Ieſus Chriſt, Amen. Firſt, after that the Prieſt hath ſayd: R…member O Lord thy men ſeruauntes, women ſeruaunts, and handmaydes, there is an N…in a redde Letter, which ſignifieth in that behalfe that ye muſt expreſly name thoſe, for whome the Maſſe in ſong, and in whoſe name the money is payde for, faying it.

Hillarius.

I do know a man that ſometime had bene a Prieſt, and now lyueth honeſtly, after the reformation of the Goſpell who dyd confeſſe vntounto me, that all the while that he was a Prieſte, that hée kept very good countenaunce in ſinginge Maſſe, vntyll hée came vntounto that place: But when he was come to the commemoration of thoſe women and handmaydens, they entered ſo much into his head, that afterwardes he could not hauehave his ſpirite in quiet.

Euſebius.

Bicauſe that he was an whooremonger, hée Mariage of prieſtescoulde not lyue chaſtlye, but gaue hymſelfe to bee one of your ſocietye, for to breake hys volue and to mary.

Hillarius.

Hath he not done better, thē to burne through concupiſence and tranſgreſſe the commaundement of God 1. Cor 7. b. 9 Mat. 15. a. 3. Mat. 14. a. … The vovve of Herode. VVhoredome.1 Cor 7Matt 15Matt 14for to keepe his vow, as Herode who cauſed Iohn Baptiſt to be beheaded, for to keepe his oth? Hath not he done better then thoſe fat whooremōgers, who had rather to perſeuer in their whoredome, and to abide ſtil in their filthines, then to vſe the holy mariage which God hath giuen to bée 1. Cor. 7. 3. 21 Cor 7:31 Cor 7:2a remedy vntounto all thoſe y^• hauehave not the gift of continency: of which they do wel know how farre they are …rō it. God knoweth what goodly redemers & aduocats y^• ſoules hauehave of them, betwéene God & them. Now much do you thinke y^• they hauehave, who do thinke more vponupon their handmaides when they ſaye their Memento, then on the ſoules of Purgatory, for whome they doe ſinge the Maſſe? And although that their doctrine were true, they make you often Idolaters. For although that they affirme that the body of Ieſus Chriſt and God be realy in the hoaſt, yet neuertheleſſe their booke, whiche they call Rationale diuinorum Rationale diui norum officiorūofficiorum, witneſſeth that if y^• Prieſt hath not the intent to conſecrate when he pronounceth the ſacramentall The intent to conſecrate.wordes, he doth not conſecrate. And ſo by that means it is not God, but the bread abideth ſtill bread. And conſequently all thoſe which doe worſhip it are Idolaters. For they doe worſhip the bread, and not God. Wherefore I referre it to thine owne ſelfe to thinke, when thoſe maidſeruauntes doe enter into their minde, and ſuch other fantaſies, which are as good ſtuffe, what intent they hauehave, when they thinke thereon, and what God they can forge.

Thomas.

By that reckening the Prieſt whiche was A true hiſtory in the yere 1538. of a Prieſt that vvas a forcerer and of his. vvhoore burned at Rolle in the time of Lent.burned of late at Rolle, which is betwéene Lauſanna and Geneua, for that he was a Sorcerer ought to hauehave made the people Idolaters. For he confeſſed that he was xxiiij. yeares a Sorcerer. And which is more, hée had alſo hys whoore which was a Sorcereſſe, who was burned aſwell as he, who did make hir a Sorcereſſe. Foraſmuche then as he denyed God, Creame and Baptiſme, as all Sorcerers doe confeſſe in their proces (if it bée ſo) what fayth can he hauehave to the Maſſe, and what conſecration ought he to make?

Hillarius.

The Papiſtes doe thincke that the ſame is well prouided for by the counſayle which the booke aboue alledged gyueth them. For to auoyde ſuch an inconucnience, he counſayleth the Chriſtian that he doe worſhip p. 82the hoaſt with ſuch condition, ſaying in his heart: Lord god if thou art there, I doe worſhip thée: if thou art not ther, I doe not worſhip thée. And that counſaile is taken from Tho. in li. 3. ſen. diſt. 9. 10. Ludo. viual. de monte regali. in aur. oope. de. ver. t. cō … The buylding of the faith of tranſubſtantiacionThomas Aquinus, who reſolued that queſtion after y^• ſort. For by that condicion all adoration, if ther be but bread, he auoydeth to be an Idolater. But I pray thée conſider a little, whether y^• our fayth be well builded, ſeing that it is builded vponupon the intent of a Prieſt, and howe that it can be faith, séeing alwaies that it is in doubt.

Euſebius.

Thou art a ſlaunderer. For all y^• Doctours ſay not ſo?

Hillarius.

I do well know that they are not all of one agréement and that Nicholas de Ploue, ſayth, that the intent is neceſſarily requiſite, and not the attent, and that it ſufficeth Nicolaur de ploue intentio non attentio. in tract. ſacerd.that y^• Prieſt hauehave a general intent to conſecrate, although that he be not alwaies attentiue, and thincke not ſtill on that that he ſayth and doeth, wherein neuertheleſſe hée ſinneth greatly. All doe trauaile as much as they can to finde reaſon out of reaſon. But it ſufficeth me ſo that the ſame which I ſpeake be written in the booke whiche gyueth the reaſon of your diuine ſeruice and ceremonies.

Theophilus.

Thou haſt no good manner, in alwaies interrupting vsus in our talk.

Hillarius.

What wilt thou hauehave me to doe? When I remember the great follies that they hauehave ſpoken & done, I am conſtrained to make ſome parentheſis, & ſome little digreſſiō. But leue not off to return vntounto thy matter & to go forward with it. I beleeue y^• thou haſt not forgotten it. That followeth afterwards which thou haſt ſaid of y^• menſeruaunts & maidſeruaunts: which hauehave gone before vsus with the ſigne of faith, & do reſt in the ſléep of peace.

Theophilus.

Thou ſéeſt already Euſebius, for The prieſts do pray but for thoſe which are already in Paradiſewhō they pray, to wit for thoſe, of whō S. Iohn ſpeaketh off in y^e Apocalips, which are dead in our Lord, & reſt frō their labours. For to dye in our Lord, & to go with y^• ſigne of faith, to reſt from their labours, & to reſt in the ſléepe of peace, is all one. And Clithoue himſelfe is conſtrained In Eluci. 3. can. expo.to expounde thoſe woordes by the ſame of Saint Iohn. Wherefore thou maiſt know, that they doe praye but for thoſe which are already in Paradiſe. For there are none other whiche doo reſt in the ſléepe of peace but thoſe. It followeth then that they doe alſo pray for y^• virgin. To pray for the Virgin Mary & the SayntsMary and for all the Saintes of Paradiſe. Now let vsus heare what thing they require for them. Wée beſéech thée that it would pleaſe thoe to graunt vntounto them and vntounto all thoſe that reſt in Chriſt, place of comfort, lyghte and peace: If they reſt in Ieſus Chriſt, are they not already in place of comfort, lyght and peace? Otherwyſe I know not what it is to reſt in Ieſus Chriſte, ſeeinge that it is written. That although that the righteous be ouertaken Sapl. 4. 7.wyth death, yet ſhall he be in reſte. If they be in a fire, as the wycked rich man, of whom thou haſt ſpoken, & that they doe burne as they make vsus beléeue, what difference is there betwéene them and the dampned? Thou knoweſt very well that Lazarus who was in Abrahams Luc. 16. 22Luke 16:22boſome, and who reſted in the ſléepe of peace, bicauſe that he was departed from this world, with the ſigne of faith that he had in the promiſes made vntounto Abraham, & of the ſéede of bleſſedneſſe, was in a place far differing from the other, in which he reſted in ioy, pleaſures and delights. For if after that the faythfull be called f…ō this world, he wero kept in the fire, in what reſt ſhould he be frō his laboures? Should he not be in worſe eſtate then he was before?

Hillarius.

After that I hauehave laboured al the day, & hauehave much ſweated, it I muſt go into a furnaſe when I ſhould go to bed, for to reſt my ſelfe in y^• ſame al night, I woulde neuer go to bed.

Theophilus.

But where ſhould be the promiſe of Ieſus Chriſt who hath ſaid ſo oftentimes: Hée y^• beléeueth in me hath euerlaſting life and ſhall not come The promiſes of God contrary vntounto the papiſticall purgatory. Iohn. 5. 24John 5:24into condempnation, but hath paſſed from death vntounto life? And that which S. Paul ſaide, now then there is no condempnation to thé that are in Chriſt Ieſus, which walke not after y^• fleſh, but after the ſpirit.

Euſebius.

That is not repugnant: For thoſe which are in purgatory are alredy Rom. 8. 1.Rom 8:1aſſured that they ſhall not be dampned. But they ſhal hauehave eternal life; after y^• they hauehave ſatiſfie… for their ſins. p. 83Theophilus. Sith that there is ſuch puniſhment, it muſt néedes bée that it hath iudgement and condemnation: For God puniſheth not without iudgeing: And I knowe not how wée can make y^• opinion agree with ſo many goodly promiſes which God hath made vntounto vsus by his Prophetes, and by all the holy Scriptures: nor yet with that whiche the Prieſts themſelues doe ſinge in the proſe of the deade, The proſe or prayer of the dead. Dies irae, dies …lla.which beginneth: Dies irae, dies illa ſoluet ſeculum, &c. They doe ſay in a little verſe.

O king of reuerent maieſty,

which ſaueſt all ſoules freely,

From euill Lord deliuer me,

thou fountaine of all clemencie.

They céerely and plainely confeſſe that wée are ſaued through grace, and doe vſe thys aduerbe, Gratis, which ſignifieth froely and franckly. Wherein they doe very well agrée to that which Sainct Paul witneſſeth, ſaying: You are iuſtified fréely by his grace. That is not then by our Rom. 3. d. 24: Rom. 21. a. 6 Gal. 2. d. 16 Ephe. 2. b. …Rom 3Gal 2Eph 2woorkes, and ſatiſfactions: For then were grace no more grace. I doe much meruayle how that good woorde eſcaped them.

Hillarius.

I thincke that the ſame chaunſed bicauſe of the rime, for to make all rime in Atis. For in the firſt verſe there is:

Rex tremende maieſtatis.

And for to make all to be in Atis, they hauehave ſayd:

Qui ſaluandos ſaluas gratis,

Salua me ſons pietatis.

Theophilus.

Now do thoſe ſatiſfactions agrée with that that the Lorde promiſed, ſayinge: if the vngodlye will Eze. IS. c. 21tourne away from all his ſinnes that hée hath done, they ſhall not be thought vppon any more: Alſo though our ſins ſhalbe as red as ſcarlet, purple, or y^• worme that cōmeth Eſa. 1. e. 18Isa 1out of the earth, he will make them as white as woll & the ſnow, and will caſte all our ſinnes behinde his backe, and Eſa. 38. 17Isa 38:17wyll putte them as farre (as Dauid witneſſeth) as the Eaſt is from the Weſt, and wyll caſt them in the bottome Pſa. 105. 12 Mich. 7. 19.Ps 105:12Mic 7:19of the ſea.

Euſebius.

ObiectionWherefore then reſerued he yet paines vntounto Dauid, after that the faulte was pardoned 2. Reg. 12. 15. 16. 1…. & 18 The punishmēt of Dauid2 Kgs 12:152 Kgs 12:162 Kgs 12:12 Kgs 12:18him, inſomuch that he was driuen from his kingdome by his owne ſonne Abſalom? Wherefore puniſhed & chaſtiſed he him, after that the Prophet Nathan had declared vntounto him the remiſſion of his ſinne?

Theophilus.

For vvhat cauſe God chaſtiſeth vsus in this worldWhen God chaſtiſed Dauid, & when he chaſtiſeth vsus eueryevery day, bicauſe of our ſinnes, he doth it not ſo much, for the ſinne which hath bene committed, as for to aouertiſe and admoniſh vsus, that we do not ſinne heereafter. And the paine that we beare is not for to ſatiſfie God. For ther is none other Satisfaction ſor the ſinnesſatiſfaction then the death & paſſion of Ieſus Chriſt, that he can allow to be ſufficient. For if we muſt ſatiſfie for our ſelues, we muſt beare & cary all the importable burthen of the wrath and iudgement of God. Now if we muſt beare them, there is none of vsus but ſhould hauehave his ſhoulders broken, and ſhould be plunged & drowned in the goulfe & bottome of hell with the Diuels. For if the Angels could 2. Pet. 2. 42 Pet 2:4not beare it, which of vsus ſhall be ſufficient, which are but wormes of the earth? And wherfore did God our good father ſend vsus Ieſus Chriſt to helpe vsus, but to that end that he would beare it & ſatiſfie for vsus, & that thorow his ſatiſfaction Iohn 3. 16 Rom. 3. 24John 3:16Rom 3:24we ſhould be reconciled vntounto God, & deliuered from his iudgement? Seing then that God our father hath the ſatiſ…action of Ieſus Chriſt his ſonne, which is more then ſufficient for vsus all, he requireth for vsus none other ſatiſfaction. And if hee require good woorkes of vsus, he requireth VVhat workes God requireth of vsand 10: vvhat endethem not for ſatiſfaction, for they are too inſufficient: But for prayſes and giuing of thanckes, and wytneſſes of our faith, & of the remembraunce that wee hauehave of the benefites that hoe hathe gyuen vntounto vsus in his ſonne Ieſus Chriſt, and for to incite our bretheren for to prayſe and magniſte hym. Therefore ſayde Ieſus Chriſte vntounto hys Dyſciples. Let your lyght ſo ſhine before men, that p. 84Mat. 5. 16Matt 5:16they maye ſée your good woorkes and glorifie your Father which is in heauen. Hée ſayde not to the ende that by them, you ſhoulde ſatiſfie for your ſinnes: or that you ſhoulde merite the kingdome of heauen, and bée iuſtyfied. For the faythfull man hath obteyned alreadye all that by the fayth of Ieſus Chriſte, whiche is Rom. 3. 22. Gala. 2. 16 1. Cor. 1. 30Rom 3:22Gal 2:161 Cor 1:30our wiſedome, ryghteouſneſſe, ſanctification, thorowe whoſe merite Paradiſe is gyuen vntounto vsus. For that cauſe the holye Apoſtle calleth the eternall lyfe, the gift of GOD. Wherefore wée maye vnderſtande that we meryte it not thorowe our good déedes, but it is gyuen Rom. 6. 23. Merite & graceRom 6:23vsus froelye, thorowe Gods lyberalytie: Euen as the Fathers enheritaunce is gyuen vntounto the ſonne: not for that he hath deſerued it, but bycauſe that hée pleaſed hym ſo, for that hee loued him, and that hée is hys chylde, and wyll gyue hym his goodes fróely. Otherwyſe grace Rom. 6. 6.Rom 6:6ſhoulde bée no more grace, but debte. On the contrary, when Saynct Paul did ſpeako of the eternall death, hée Rom. 6. 23.Rom 6:23calleth it the wages of ſinne: declaringe thereby that man hathe well deſerued it, and that hée can deſerue none other thinge, but that that wages is due vntounto Iohn. 15John 15hym, for a recompence of the ſeruice that hée hathe done vntounto the Diuell, the Prince of this worlde, euen as the wages which is payde vntounto a ſouldyer, for bearynge of weapons vnderunder hys Capitayne. Wee … then ſée that The workes of the Angels and of the elect.the woorkes done by the chyldren of God, and the ſeruice that the Angelles doo… vntounto hym, doe tende all vntounto one ende, to witte, to glorifie GOD and to ſanctyfie his name. Euen as then the Angelles ſerue not GOD for to merite Paradyſe, of whiche they are alreadye in poſſeſſion, neyther for ſatiſfaction of theire ſinnes, of whithe they are not entangled: But onelye for the louelove that they hauehave in GOD, and the deſyre of hys glorye, ſo Gods electe doe regarde none other thinge, for they are alreadye waſhed and purged 1. Cor. 6. 11 Apo. 1. 8. Act. 15. 9. Iohn. 13. 141 Cor 6:11Acts 15:9John 13:14from theire ſinnes by the bloud… of Ieſus Chriſt, and theyre hearte puryfied by the faythe in hym, and thorowe the woorde that they hauehave hearde of hym: And are already poſſeſſors of y^e kingdome of heauē in hope: the which is no leſſe ſure and certeine, then if the thinge were preſent, and that the Angels are aſſured of that that they hauehave. Therefore the holy Apoſtle ſayth, that wee Rom. 8. e. 44. Ephe. 1. …1. …0Rom 8Eph 1:1are ſaued thorowe hope, and that Ieſus Chriſt doth make vsus ſitte in the heauenly places. And therefore when God doth chaſtiſe and cortect vsus in this worlde, that is, as the Apoſtle alſo writeth vntounto the Corinthians, for to correct and chaſtiſe vsus, that we ſhould not be damned wyth the worlde and the Infidels: bicauſe that we are yet in the waye, and 1. Cor. 11. g. 311 Cor 11capable of chaſtiſment and ainendement, But there is an other reaſon after thys lyfe héere, when wee are out of the waye; and néede, and that wee cannot any more empayre nor amend: And therefore the Lorde doth chaſten vsus héere, as the good Father who beateth not his ſonne for to hauehave The chaſtiſen…t of a father tovvardes his clulde.any recompence thereby for the faulte that hée hath committed: For the paine of the childe bringeth no profite vntounto the Father. Alſo he doth not beat him through rigor nor throughe mallice that hée hath to take vengeaunce of him: For hée loueth him as his childe, and the fatherly affection maketh him ſoone forget the faultes and iniuries that he hath done vntounto him: As it is cleerely ſhewed vntounto vsus in the Father of the prodigall childe.Luc. 15. …. 22.Luke 15

Euſebius.

What hath y^e father then to do to chaſtiſe him?

Theophilus.

If hée knewe that he woulde neuer doe any more fault he would ſoone pardon him, without any puniſhment: But fearing leaſt thorow his great patience … gentleneſſe ſhoulde fall agayne, hee is conſtrained to beate and chaſtiſe him, although that he doe, it not willingly, but it to that ende to make hym more prudent and wyſe, and to better aduiſe himſelfe in time to come, and that he take diligent heede not to ſall againe in y^• fault or in any other greater. The which is no more to be feared in thoſe whome, GOD hath called from this worlde. Wherefore they cannot anye more rectius puniſhment whiche ſhoulde be to c…n…en them as is y^• ſame of the father towards p. 85his child, for to amend him. But if there hée a puniſhment, The punishmēt of the malefactors.it is rather, to declare the iudgement & the ſeuerity of God towards the wicked and reprobates, and to manyfeſt his goodnes and mercy towardes his elect: As the Iudge doth condemne the traytor, murtherer and other malefactors, that hauehave deſerued death, not for to hauehave any recompence, nor thoſe vntounto whom they hauehave done wronge and iniury. For what recompence can they hauehave by their deathes? neyther do they it for to cauſe them to walke in time to come more vprightly, ſith that they take from them their life: But for to ſatiſfie righteouſnes, and to mayntaine it, to that end that other may take example, and that they may know how auayleable it is to hauehave followed vertue and eſchewed vice.

Euſebius.

To what purpoſe then doth Sainct Iohn Apo. 14. c. 13 Obie cten O pera. N. illorum ſequuntur illos. VVhat …orkes follovv y^• dead.in his reuelation ſay: Their works do follow them? what workes do follow them, but the good déedes that men doe for them after their death? For thoſe that they hauehave done whileſt they lyued went before, not after. Wherefore it followeth that there are ſome other which do profit them.