Common Places, Letters · Letter 51
To the ſame man. 52.
SO often as occaſion ſhall be offered, of writing vntounto you (my Reuerende and moſt louing Goſſip) I wil not omitte the ſame. Wherefore I did write the 12. daie of this monethmonth: Nowe vntounto thoſe letters I will adde ſuch thinges as did followe afterwarde. An Oration was to bee made fower dayes ſince by the Cardinall of Loraine wherein he ſhould hauehave confuted the Preface of Beza. And when our brethren and aſſociates were to goe thither, namely to Poiſſi where the aſſemblie of ye Eccleſiaſticall perſons is holden, it was long and verie much debated in the kings Court: whether I ſhoulde be fetched thither or no, and it was in a maner determined that I ſhould not goe, becauſe the Cardinals and Biſhops woulde not ſuffer mee to be there. Howbeit the Quéene at the hower of going thither called me foorth and commaunded mee to goe. The Prince of Condie tooke order that I ſhoulde be brought by him that was his Secretarie, and hee ſent his owne Mule whereby I might be brought both eaſily and quietlie. Wherefore I went thither, apart from the brethren: for they when the houre was néere went foorth before me. And whē we were come to the men who beare as they call them ſpeares and halberdes which were the garde of the kings perſon, ſuffering none to enter in but ſuch as ſhoulde: The Duke of Guiſe who was captaine, woulde not let me enter: but when hee had hearde of the Princes ſeruaunt that I was Peter Martyr, he tooke me by the Arme, and brought me in. Wherefore being entered into the Hall I ſawe a great companie of Cardinals and Biſhops ſat within a verie large place incloſed, behinde whome ſat a verie great nū ber of Abbotes, Doctors, Sorboniſtes and Moonkes. When I had ſéene theſe thinges, and perceiued that neither the Quéene nor the King nor other of the noble perſonages were preſent, I withdrewe my ſelfe into a corner of the loweſt part of the hall that I might there ſit and attende the comming of the brethren. For I knewe not whither they were gone: And ſince I was there alone I could not be hid. The Cardinall Chaſtillion together with two Biſhoppes in their Cardinall and Biſhoppes apparell firſt demanded of me whether I were Peter Martyr. When I ſaide yea, he ſaluted me verie gentlie and offered me all courteſies, and teſtified that I was moſt welcome both to him and to all other good men. Alſo the two Biſhoppes that were with him, prayed me inſtantlie that I woulde indeuour for a peace and concorde to bee made, and that the troubles ſprong vp might bee pacified. I gaue the Cardinall thankes, and aunſwered the Biſhoppes that I woulde further peace and concorde ſo farre as the worde of God and trueth of the Goſpell might ſuffer. That Cardinall is brother vntounto the Admirall, & (as welnéere all mē ſaie) doeth iudge verie rightlie of Religion. But the Admirall himſelfe is ſo godlie and courteous, as hee twiſe or thriſe viſited me euen in my chamber, and moſt gentlie ſaluted mee. But I returne to the Hiſtorie. Afterward came in the Cardinall of Loraine with his well ſtudied Oration. Then came the king and Quéene Mother with the King of Nauare & other noble perſonages. Laſt of all came the aſſociates to whome I ſtreight waie ioyned my ſelfe. The Cardinals and the Biſhops ſate, but we ſtood and that without their circuit. The Oratiō of the Cardinall of Loraine.The Cardinall of Loraine ſpake in French by the ſpace of an houre and a halfe. And firſt he greatlie flattered the royall maieſties. Then hee entered to the confuting of Bezaes oration. Manie thinges hee ſpake of his owne Church, that the ſame had a continued ſucceſſion, and perpetuall impoſition of handes, and which worſhipped Chriſt without anie Idolatrie. (Howe truelie he ſpake this all men knowe.) Afterward he indeuoured to ſhew that the Church doth not onelie conſiſt of the elect, regenerate and holie, but alſo of the euill and wicked. But this he therefore vrged, leſt the Cardinals and Biſhoppes, of whome it cannot be denied but that many are moſt corrupt liuers, ſhoulde be thought to be excluded from the Church. For they indeuour as much as they can to holde the chéefe places therein. If the Church (ſaith hee) were of the elect, then ſhoulde it be inuiſible, and we might be vncertaine of it. Hee affirmed that generall Councels cannot erre, neither in doctrine nor in manners, but that they hauehave otherwhile varied and chaunged ſome thinges according as the times required. He added that the ſame Church doeth imbrace and honour the worde of God, but that he diſtinguiſhed into foreign and foreign [that is to ſaie not written and written] and hee would that the Church ſhoulde beare rule ouer the written worde, and that the interpretation thereof ſhoulde bee taken from thence. When he had ſpoken much of theſe thinges hee came to the matter of the Sacrament, where hee medled not anie thing with tranſubſtantiation nor anie thing with the Maſſe, but made mention of no other preſence of the bodie of Chriſt than Luther and Brentius did. For he affirmed that the bodie of Chriſt is preſent not locallie nor contained in bondes, but after a heauenlie manner and more than ſubſtantiallie. And when he had ended his oration, he turned him to the Quéene mother, and deſired her, that ſhee together with her ſonne woulde abide in the ſame faith wherein they had hitherto béene educated and baptiſed in their infancie, if this ſhoulde bee doone, hee offered all dueties both of him ſelfe and of the Biſhoppes, and ſo hee made an ende of his Oration. Hee abſtained from taunts and ſpake quietlie ynough. When he had helde his peace wee humblie prayed the Quéenes maieſtie that wée might foorthwith aunſwere that Oration. Then the Cardinals and Biſhoppes roſe vp, and ſtoode rounde about the ſeate of the king and Quéene: but what they ſaid it is vnknowen vntounto vsus, but the euent declared, that they made ſuit that our requeſt might not be admitted. And in verie déede it was anſwered that we ſhould not then deale, but that a day ſhoulde be giuen wherein wee might aunſwere. When we were returned vntounto S. Germans, foorthwith I and Beza were called into the court by the prince of Condie & the Admirall: they deſired our opinion as touching the Oration. They themſelues who looked that it would hauehave béene ſharpe and bitter, praiſed the ſame as milde and moderate, and they made much reckening of it becauſe he had made no mention either of tranſubſtantiation or of the maſſe. Howbeit theſe things they ſpake to that end that we ſhould not ſpeake ſharpelie and bitterlie of that Oration, and ſo the hope of the conference to come might be broken off. And they admoniſhed me ſecretly and by the way, that when I ſhould be ſent for the next day after to the Quéene mother, I ſhoulde ſpeake the more mildlie with her, as touching that Oration, to the intent that the conference might not be hindered, by an vtter deſpaire of the agréement. There we ſyncerelie ſhewed what we thought of the Oration that was made. But I promiſed that I woulde deale mildly and modeſtlie with the Quéene as touching the Cardinals Oration. Of which at the length I would not iudge and teſtifie otherwiſe than the word of God and truth it ſelfe would ſuffer.
The ſecond conference of Peter Martyr with the Quéene.The next day after I was ſent for to the Quéene together with Beza, and that in the euening. She when ſhe was come vntounto vsus, led me aſide that ſhe might talke with mée alone. Firſt ſhe deſired that I would plainlie ſhew certain things vntounto her. The which ſo ſoone as I had ſaluted her I declared. Which when I had doone ſhe aſked moreouer what I thought as touching the Oration: I anſwered, that it ſéemed vntounto me to be eloquent, and that certaine things therein were true and good, which yet ſhould be common with vsus alſo, as are thoſe thinges that hee ſpake of obedience towards magiſtrates, and that in the Church the euill dwell together with the good, & therein doe manie times exerciſe the holie miniſterie: and that we alſo doe not appoint an inuiſible Church, but doe define congregations vntounto which the faithfull may know that they can ſafelie adioyne themſelues: but that the Church ſhould be preferred before the worde of God, cannot be graunted. At the length ſhée demanded me as touching the laſt point [namelie] of the Euchariſt wherein I ſaide that the Cardinal was vtterlie againſt both the truth and vsus, but that in conferring together perhaps he will ſomwhat relent. And this I ſaide, not that I ſo hoped, but that the purpoſe and hope of conference might not be cut off. She demaunded alſo if I had anie other counſell which might helpe to obtaine peace & quietneſſe, beſides that which I had giuen before. I added that if there might bée no agréement in the conference as touching the preſence of the bodie of Chriſt, ſhe ſhould leaue that Article frée till it might be manifeſt or better prooued, and ſhoulde ſuffer the Churches of Chriſt to retaine and preach that doctrine, which they might iudge agréeable to the woorde of God: and that in the meane time they ſhould not for the diuerſitie of opinion breake brotherlie charitie, nor call one another hereticks. The counſel which I gaue, ſhe verie much allowed. I added further: But for becauſe the Church men (as it manifeſtlie appeareth) are onelie for this cauſe againſt the trueth, that they may vpholde riches, and defende their power, your maieſtie may make them certaine and ſure that all things ſhall remaine vntounto them, and that in peaceable poſſeſſion during their life. Of this if they can perſwade thēſelues they will become much more tractable. And this ſhee alſo allowed. When theſe things were ſaide ſhee went to the fire ſide, where Beza was with the king of Nauarre, the prince of Condie & the Admyrall: and ſhe prayed him together with me to applie all our iudeuour and diligence, that if it were poſſible there might be made an agréement: which thing we promiſed to do ſo farre as ſhould be lawfull by the word of God.
Some of the biſhops which be of the better iudgement would hauehave vsus to agrée to the conſubſtantiation of Luther and Brentius. We denie that this may bee doone: And herein doe wée conſtantlie perſiſt that the bodie of Chriſt is in heauen & not elſewhere. But we doe graunt that in the holie ſupper the Godly communicants do receiue the true bodie and bloud of the Lord, but yet by faith and the ſpirite, and that the diſtance of places doth not hinder the coniunction it ſelfe, ſéeing it is a thing altogether ſpiritual. They ſay moreouer that they wiſh that the ſame conſubſtantiation of the breade and wine with the bodie of Chriſt may not be ſpoken of when we ſhall conferre together. There we ſaide, that if they will vrge it, we will not hold our peace. They ſay it ſhall not bée vrged, and they thinke that this article will eaſilie be left frée vntounto the Churches. What will follow I know not. The day is not yet ſet downe, nor the Colloquutors appointed. In the meane time our Ambaſſadour behaueth himſelfe verie curteouſlie towards vsus: he ſaluteth me, and oftentimes commeth to ſéeme. And when hee vnderſtoode that our horſes were not héere well vſed, by reaſon of the incredible multitude of horſes, and in a manner the infinite couetouſneſſe of the hoſtes, he meaneth to hauehave them brought to his own houſe out of Paris, where he hath his owne horſes. There they ſhalbe no leſſe wel and diligentlie looked vntounto than his owne. Truelie he pretendeth great curteſie vntounto our Senate. Aſſiſt vsus as much as you can with your prayers. Beza together with the other brethren doe heartily ſalute you, and the reſidue of our fellowe miniſters, which thing alſo doth my Iulius and Stuccius. And I would hauehave you to ſalute in my name euerie one of yours and alſo my verie deare brethren and fellowe miniſters. Since I doe write ſomewhat briefelie vntounto our moſt honorable magiſtrate, you may by your wiſedome, ſupplie with your aduertiſmēts thoſe things that you ſhall thinke good. Farewell right reuerend and moſt déere Goſſip. The 19. of September, 1561. in S. Germans.
Nowe is come the Cardinal of Ferrara in moſt great pompe. Among others he hath brought with him as they bragge moſt learned men, who hauehave determined in this diſputation to deuoure vsus like a morſell of bread. Among them is Paulus Sadoletus biſhop of Carpenthoratum. There is alſo a Gréeke Biſhop whom they affirme to bée a moſt learned man in that tongue and in the Gréeke Fathers. There is alſo a Dominican Frier, being a principall Rabbin of the ſchoole Diuinitie. The names of the reſt I knowe not, ſauing that they boaſt that there is alſo in his companie a great captaine of the Ieſuites. Pray yée that God, who is a mightie man of warre will vouchſafe of his diuine power to ſcatter this maine battaile of the Romane Goliath.